Top 10 Games We Wanted to Like - But Didn't!

Tom, Sam, and Zee discuss the games they were hyped about and turned out to be disappointment!
00:00 - Introduction
02:48 - Sam’s #10
05:02 - Tom’s #10
06:06 - Zee’s #10
07:00 - Tom’s #9
07:59 - Zee’s #9
09:19 - Sam’s #9
11:19 - Zee’s #8
12:44 - Sam’s #8
13:57 - Tom’s #8
15:12 - Zee’s #7
17:04 - Tom’s #7
18:31 - Sam’s #7
20:24 - Tom’s #6
22:22 - Sam’s #6
23:51 - Zee’s #6
25:44 - Tom’s #5
28:59 - Zee’s #5
30:07 - Tom’s #5
31:19 - Sam’s #4
33:23 - Tom’s #4
35:14 - Zee’s #4
37:00 - Tom’s #3
39:00 - Zee’s #3
41:40 - Sam’s #3
43:58 - Zee’s #2
46:46 - Sam’s #2
49:03 - Tom’s #2
52:01 - Sam’s #1
54:11 - Tom’s #1
56:05 - Zee’s #1
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[@marceldouwstra5847]

Now do a list the other way round.. Top 10 games you didn't think you'd like, but you did!

[@prterrell]

+

[@Mandrake42]

I love the way Tom just puts his hat over his eyes and sits back when Zee says Eldritch Horror ;)

[@EclecticCamel]

War of the Ring is awesome. It's a game that rewards patience. It isn't meant to be Risk.

[@Pengi_SMILES]

TheGreatHamEl agree. And if it didn't have the element that Sam doesn't like it wouldn't reflect the source material and wouldnt be half the game it is.

[@Subtrendy]

I'm kind of surprised they didn't like it. It's pretty similar to Star Wars Rebellion, which they really seemed to enjoy. Maybe LOTR just isn't their jam.

[@stm12p]

Agree. The dice tower guys just dont have a strategy to play as The fellowship. They didn't even know that they can speed up the At war token move down so quickly just by strategically positioned troops. And making war against Sauron army is suicidal since fellowship troops wont re-spawn. The key is to slow down Sauron army so that Frodo can reach Mordor, by wage a defending war. No one in his right mind would ride to the battle field agains unlimited number of Orc, Uruk hai and Goblins. Elf, Dwarf can also try to back stab Sauron if they are too care free marching against other nations. The fellowship of the Ring only needs 4 military points to win. They simply dont like it because they dont know how to play it properly lolzzzz

[@asantos1]

I completely agree with you

[@ramonosuke]

Haven't played the game, but seeing how it works and loving the source material, I will agree with you too. I also think War of the Ring and Battle of the Five Armies can fit in the same collection

[@DrewVogel069]

10. War of the Ring / Alcatraz: Scape Goat / Tikal II 9. B-Sieged: Sons of the Abyss / Lady Alice / Shadows of Normandie 8. Mad Zeppelin / Flash Point: Fire Rescue / Anachronism 7. Dead of Winter / Rattle, Battle, Grab the Loot / Colt Express 6. Dungeon Lords / Race for the Galaxy / Tales of the Arabian Nights 5. Dark Moon / The Witcher Adventure Games / Level 7 [Escape] 4. Die Macher / Ninja: Legend of the Scorpion Clan / Red November 3. I am Vlad: Prince of Wallachia / XCOM: The Board Game / The Others: 7 Sins 2. Eldritch Horror / Duel of Ages / Cargo Noir 1. Lords of Xidit / Runewars / SeaFall

[@gregripfish]

Doing the Lord's work

[@BladeKyt]

I wonder, whether or not i will ever got tired of you three talking about board games. Nowadays, I don't even play that much but I still love listening to you three.

[@joshuaschulz3897]

The next time you do any games you don't like, I want Sam and Zee to collude and pick all of Tom's top 20 games, just to punk him. That would be awesome.

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Zee, have you tried the fully cooperative variant (official, included with game) of Dead of Winter? It's exactly what you're asking for. There are no secret objectives and the scenario is harder. The hard objective is on the back of the card. For example, the 1st scenario where you must get 8 samples is changed to 12 samples in fewer rounds. No traitor, no secret objective, fully co-op but harder missions. Exactly what you said. Try it.

[@Clydelyng]

Trevin Taylor that variant is way to easy though. Sadly Dead of Winther is a borderline broken game.

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Lyng if you think it's too easy, make it harder. change the 12 samples to 16 samples. start with 1 less round and 2 less starting cards. it's very simple to turn up the difficulty in that game. start with lower morale, more zombies on the board, or less items in the location deck. you can tweak it to make it tougher very easily.

[@BrandonGraham]

Seriously... how did the three of them not know about this? Also, it seems super thematic that everyone has their own mischievous goal and may or may not betray you in a post-apocalyptic world. There are other reasons why I can see people don't like it... but that makes a ton of sense.

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Brandon Graham absolutely. i would totally hoard medication in a zombie world. it absolutely makes sense.

[@sarahlanger2605]

Zee doesn't dislike the traitor aspect in Dead of Winter, he dislikes how it tries to make the traitor work by giving everybody tratorish objectives.

[@ashleepradella4912]

Would love to see a list of games you thought you'd dislike and then played and really enjoyed it...from memory you haven't done a list like that yet :) For me my biggest disappointments have been Caverna (Just didn't like the theme, plus thought there were too many options), Flip City (I just don't think I like small deckbuilders), and Imperial Settlers (My own fault, I hate games that have mechanics like Imperial Settlers but got so caught up in the hype and bought it). And whoever put that card in Eldrich Horror "Lose all your progress" is a crazy person hahaa!!! Soooo agree with you Zee

[@John-rv2qe]

Castles of Burgundy tops that list for me. Art work is boring. Too many pieces. Odd theme. BUT WOW! Can't get enough of it now. Great game.

[@ashleepradella4912]

For me it's 7 wonders... for some reason I hated it the first several times I played. I ended up playing it more and more because a friend had it and always wanted to play and now I am OBSESSED!! haha it's funny how these things work out.

[@AndyVandercoy]

Ashlee Cramb I agree on that. I think I love Duel even more with my wife it hits the coffee table often.

[@AndyVandercoy]

John Brody played the card game version? I may have to pick this up

[@John-rv2qe]

I have not played the card version of Burgundy yet. Hopefully this X-mas!

[@feenix1803]

My favourite 'Top 10' list to date. I don't agree with all the choices, but great break-down of what YOU don't like. Very informative.

[@likwified]

I'm a little girl from Italy. I Am Vlad is my favorite game of all time. You have stabbed my heart.

[@WylliamJudd]

I enjoy playing Dead of Winter in coop mode, where you play hardcore, and you don't use the hidden objective cards. The game is still really good - it's fun to figure out what sacrifices you need to make as a group to survive.

[@dregen77]

As for my list of disappointments (not in specific order): - Spyfall (fell flat every time I played it) - Dead of Winter (Very much for the same reasons that Zee explains so eloquently) - 1830 (I was told this was a perfect game with zero randomness, etc. To me, it felt like going to work) - Mistfall (The game mechanics weren't exciting at all) - Tides of Time (I get it, it's a short filler and that's excatly what I got, problem is all reviews said it was SO good with just 15 cards. It's not that good. It's just okay.) - Russian Railroads (I am not a big fan of Euros, but I do like some of them. I actually fell asleep while playing this one: the theme could be anything else, and I just found it to be an overcomplication of euro mechanics just because. At the end of the game I still had not figured out how the different train tracks scored. I know that's my fault, but this is also my list, so there's that.) - Tiny Epic Kingdoms (It sold the 4x feeling in just 30 minutes. Sorry, but it doesn't even come close, and after a few plays it looked like all it had to offer, we had already seen.) - A Study In Emerald 2.0 (I had heard so many rave review for the first edition of this game. Somebody brought the second edition to play and I think nobody liked it much at that table. I don't know how it compares to 1st Ed. but in this one everything seemed to be too obvious.) - Project Elite (Not a bad game, but seems too random and confusing. I'd play again, but it sure was disappointing to me.) - Shadows of Brimstone (The theme seemed original and cool enough, but it's so much a dice fest that I end up getting bored. I'd choose other alternatives over this one for Dungeon Crawl.)

[@nyulgaming]

Can this be considered a remake of an older video "Top 10 Dissapointing Games" from 2013?

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Adam those they didnt necessarily go in "wanting" to like it. this might (although didnt) include games you actually like, but didnt live up to the hype.

[@adrianpop4809]

It's funny how Sam complains about 'The Others: 7 Sins' glorifying something or other, but then he loves games that glorify the carnage of the second world war.

[@tomasxfranco]

Well. He does take his myths too seriously.

[@ZombieGrizzly]

agree completely. In a lot of ways, I think the war stuff is more morbid and disturbing personally.

[@madelainemartiniscanino2997]

War of the Ring? Really? Sam I hate you! Just kidding lol, just commenting because Tom told me to on the vid. Sam, love you!

[@trevorcummins6657]

Now that we have "Top 10 Disappointing Games" and "Top 10 Games We Wanted to Like, But Didn't", we really need "Top 10 Games That Failed to Meet Expectations", "Top 10 Games We Hoped Would Be Better", and "Top 10 Disappointing Games 2: Electric Boogaloo"

[@lasttruegypsy]

Cargo Noir would be my #1 for sure. I said that out loud when you guys began explaining how you made your lists. I am glad it made Tom's list at #2. Other games that would make my list would be #2 - Tzolkin: The Mayan Calendar #3 - Terra Mystica #4 - Five Tribes #5 - Thurn and Taxis #6 - B-Seiged #7 - Tin Goose #8 - Lords of Xidit #9 - Tiny Epic Kingdoms #10 - Edo Some of these are good games, but I expected too much.

[@fredmcmack]

Tzolkin: The Mayan Calendar is a fantastic game. Still don't get the hype around Terra Mystica though. I've heard Tin Goose takes a couple plays to grok. Edo is also terrific, although I prefer Maharaja.

[@ashleymcmullin1892]

último cigano verdadeiro I can see why one would not like Tzolkin, it is one board game that the better player will almost ALWAYS win, which makes it very niche and not a great game to play unless everyone is very competitive and even matched. I watched a lot of games played online by following Tzolkin masters with thousands of games and it is remarkable how big the gap gets between players. I would recommend the expansion as it makes the game a little more forgiving to most gamers. Unless you just really hated it 😃

[@lasttruegypsy]

Unfortunately I really hated it. Maybe I should try it again because I only played it once. But it left such a bad taste in my mouth that I have never gone back.

[@petermobius]

You guys rock! One of my fav top 10's after years of watching. Patreon tip..whatever you want to call it is heading your way. Thanks again!

[@gordachi]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, I am Vlad can be really fun! You just need to add a few components that most people would have lying around their house. Like an oven. Or a fireplace.

[@mrskwid1]

gordachi hehe i see what you did there.

[@jaysoncurry5434]

"Maybe that Arkham Horror card game will be the one?" -Zee This aged well :)

[@shawncameron9514]

I love Xidit, and what Sam is complaining about is one of my favorite aspects. You HAVE to anticipate your opponents moves.

[@a1investigations433]

Completely agree with Zee on Eldritch Horror. Sold it after 1 and 1/2 plays. The Others is great for what Sam dislikes it for, plus great mechanisms. I've not played a more tense game no matter what side you play on. (It's cool if you don't like the Others for theme, though)

[@ramonosuke]

Great list some definite ones for me would be: Cry Havoc Arboretum Apex Theropod Deck Building Game-Janky mess for rules really hurt this one Clank! In! Space!-Too long, with player elimination...not fun sorry New York Slice Mage Wars-way too convoluted for what it is

[@Chronon88]

Thanks for this video. Exactly the format what I hope you will do more. Not that into individual reviews due my low purchase rate so it was really great to hear about so many ames the same time. (Also nice to hear Dead of Winter and Eldritch Horror were in there despite hearing good stuff about them; even played the former a few times).

[@WCP4to]

Another awesome top 10! Thank you! However, I was hoping for the same quality as the "Top 10 Anticipated Essen Spiel 2016 Games" regarding the titles and Games' cover and stuff. You will always have my like but I really liked that one because of that. Keep the awesome work!

[@twenty-sidedturtle2107]

WCP4to So you're saying you were disappointed by this Top Ten? I'll let myself out.

[@WCP4to]

I was disappointed by its presentation since there were better ones before, but I love all to 10's!

[@fnorddiscord]

You guys really cracked me up with this one! Funniest video yet. Very enjoyable. Thanks!

[@SamTheWai]

In War of the Ring, it really makes thematic sense that you need to convince the people to go war politically. It took a lot of convincing to get Rohan and Gordon to go to war.

[@forsaken667]

I have a suggestion for a Top Ten video I would LOVE to see :) A Top Ten player count list! i.e. At No.10 you would discuss your best games at player count 10. At No.5 you would discuss your best games at player count 5 and so on!

[@Inner2000]

This is truly one of the best segments on a long time. It was great to see you guys disagree, have fun and tell what you really feel for some games. This is all we want, true arguments about why you think a game is worth to ask money from us. Good job.

[@EpicGamingNight]

I normally agree with Sam a lot but I love the political track in war of the ring! It is very thematic! But battle of the five armies is cool too so where good! 😝

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Sam, for Colt Express, just use chopsticks. You should already have them at game night so people can eat messy snacks like Cheetos without ruining your components.

[@Steve-L]

Board Game Breakfast had a segment on how to make a larger train for Colt Express, one could also easily create a 2D board.

[@MindinViolet]

I am now trying to visualise eating Cheetos with chopsticks.

[@joaocamilo8106]

Or he could just use The Force like the rest of us do, right?

[@gamera2351]

What's wrong with putting your meeple next to the train car instead or in it? That's what my brother in law does.

[@cursivecurses]

With the expansion, there are horses next to the train cars, and players can ride on them, so I suspect it would get confusing real fast

[@syphaeightfive3462]

I really enjoy your top 10 lists! Thank you for the video!... Would be cool to see oposite of this too... top 10 I like but no one else does... Or, top 10 games I LOVE but never want to play again (in my case, Catan). Thanx again, really enjoyed the video...

[@mgk2020]

"Maybe that Arkham Horror card game will be the one." Good news, Past Zee...

[@adelfaidah3224]

its so good how nonchalantly he said those words and now its literally in his top 10 of all time

[@avj317]

Agricola! lol! thats the major one for me :)

[@jenspoder8322]

What a great list! This was a blast :) And what a great idea to get some catharsis from sharing your worst disappointments. My top 3 would be: 1) King of New York: Took a brilliant and funny and fast game and made it convoluted and long. I had been looking SO much forward to this. 2) Descent: Bought a load of boxes of this expecting great things. This was just not for me. I hated being the overlord. Everything looked great, but the gameplay was just so annoying. Get knocked down. Get up again. Get knocked down again. 3) Imperial Settlers: This was just going to be the greatest. Looked so amazing and everyone was reviewing it like it was pure gold. Fell totally flat for me. Ended up selling it after one play-through.

[@MarcelPogorzelski]

I am glad I don't have to make the choices of what to buy blind. I order games for the gaming group I am in. The last two orders(about 10 games) were all hits. That's because of Dice Tower and Watch it Played. Do your research first and buy later if you don't want to waste money. Either way thank you for all the info you provide. Our gaming group is stacked with great games for every occasion because of the work you do.

[@NeilBlaiberg]

Love Tom's reaction at the mention of Eldritch Horror!

[@Kindlesmith70]

2 years old, I know. Zee, play the full co-op variant of Dead of Winter. I hate the traitor mechanism within this game. The game is hard enough without everyone scrabbling to achieve another objective in addition to the main one. Co-op variant removes the traitor, removes the personal objectives and you play the hardest mode of the scenario. Dead of Winter: The Long Night adds bandits which adds a minor nuisance to the locations, which does up the difficulty by a small amount.

[@Superslemmet]

Heh, got that card that removes all your progress in Eldrich Horror the second time I played it. Like, two turns after drawing that card we all realised the card could as well have said "You lose". Continuing playing after getting that was pretty pointless. But other than that card, I think Eldrich Horror is great fun. Easy to learn and not too lengthy.

[@rigamarolexq]

Just to make sure, 당나귀 똥 (in the background, over Sam's shoulder), is Los Mampfos, right?

[@hondito]

Excellent reaction, Tom, to Zee's number 2!! I'm almost always with Zee, but Eldritch is so good! You crazy!

[@hondito]

And 2 player Eldritch is always 2 hours or less for us.

[@neverboardofgaming]

I agree on Dead of Winter Zee! Blahhh did not like voting friends out, random cards, and....random die roll will kill you....yeah not for me.

[@neverboardofgaming]

Friends came out of the experience depressed haha.

[@casedinlight]

Dead of Winter is one of the worst board games I've ever played. I wanted to die so that I didn't have to play anymore, and the game drags on SO long.

[@Straddllw]

Out of the list, I really love Dead of Winter, Colt Express, Eldritch Horror, The Others: 7 Sins, Lords of Xidit. And I'm also really looking forward to playing Seafall. This is like a list of my favourite games. Sigh ...

[@hardbathsalts3143]

You bear a striking resemblance to the internet historian.

[@lariandrobert]

Sam, Tom, Zee, it was interesting the number of times you said, "Art, amazing! Components, awesome! Theme, outstanding! Game-play, BLECH!" Are you ever tempted to just re-write the rules for any of these dogs, so they can meet your expectations?

[@benco804]

I feel the same way you guys do about so many games. A game will come out with awesome artwork, an awesome theme and an awesome concept and then all it turns out to be is another way to push cubes or trade silk or something. So many games are just hollow or repeat experiences.

[@jesseokane347]

for colt express we had similar difficulties for some players but found that simply arranging the carriages in a semi circle gave better access and made their contents more visable

[@MarcelPogorzelski]

Again with the Race for the Galaxy thing. I played it once and all the icons where really easy to understand because they are explained on the cards! Just read the little info box when you don't immediately understand the meaning of the symbols.

[@TheWillz02]

GKR: heavy hitters. I was sooo pumped for this game! Looks AMAZING and reminded me of front mission a video game that I Loved but to me just felt flat, bought it played it once and havent played since.

[@jfren484]

My gave for this list would be Pirate's Cove, from Days of Wonder. Back in 2010 I owned Ticket to Ride (base USA plus 1910), the TTR card game, and Colosseum (which I got FREE for Christmas 2009 by purchasing $50 worth of products on the DOW store - best promo ever!). Christmas of 2010 rolls around, and they do a promo for something free when you spend so much, so I bought Shadows Over Camelot, which I already knew I wanted, and Pirate's Cove. We've only played PC twice, but I was so underwhelmed both times that we haven't kept trying it.

[@tinstargames]

I'm with you on Dead of Winter, Zee. I like it a lot but it's not what I WANT it to be. It's so close it hurts.

[@tinstargames]

And I'm with Sam on Race

[@undersci]

For me, it's Chaos in the Old World. I'm the biggest Blood Rage fan on the planet, and a couple of months ago, some folks said to me 'This game's even better than Blood Rage!' I was hyped. To me, it was a pale shadow of Blood Rage in every possible way. From super randomness with exploding dice, to a limited card pool that you drew at random, to proscribed game play that made bash the leader a condition of playing well, I just didn't enjoy it at all.

[@eXyliad]

My Top Five games I wanted to like... but didn't: 1. Lords of Waterdeep 2. Firefly 3. The Witcher Adventure Game 4. World Of Warcraft 5. Kingdom Builder From 1 to 4, I wanted to like them because I love the themes/IP of these games. The Witcher and Kingdom Builder, because of the designers. Kingdom Builder additionally because of the Spiel des Jahres prize. So. Much. Disappoint.

[@TeChNoWC7]

I feel like Kingdom Builder is the test to see if gamers get the concept of constrained choices in board game design often trumping open world. For that reason and how divisive it is I think it might be a contender for one of the most important board games ever designed

[@davidlewis5312]

@@TeChNoWC7 wow... that was pretentious as hell

[@lpgascon]

Colt Express is Amazing! I think they should make a Collectors Giant Version for Sam

[@McBehrer]

42:35 yeah. That's where the phrase "rub the wrong way" COMES from.

[@McBehrer]

so, here are some of mine. Dead of Winter. I agree with Zee, for one, but also it's just so long and slow-paced. Sheriff of Nottingham. Not that it's a bad game, but I played with a guy who never lied once, and he won; when everyone else is trying to bluff and lie creatively, it kind of bugged me that the guy who didn't at all won it. That you can win without taking any risks. Myth. I love the combat mechanics and the characters and everything, but the rulebook is such a clusterfuck. Plus, even though you're supposed to be able to play a story without a DM, you still need someone to decide what goes in any given panel, with very little input from the game itself, leaves you wondering exactly what you're supposed to DO. Mage Wars. The concept is great, and I haven't played Academy yet, but Arena just takes so damn long! I can't get anyone to play, because it's hard to teach and takes several hours. Lords of Waterdeep. Mostly because the guy I played with (who owned the game) was a dick; he kept going on about how he "doesn't play to win, he only plays to have fun," and then wins by like 50 points above the second place player. Risk: Legacy. If you win too many games, the game starts building and building in your favor. After a while, one player can become an unstoppable force, and it's just not fun for anyone. I was that player, and it wasn't fun for me either.

[@TeChNoWC7]

Your problems with Sheriff are completely fixed with the expansion.

[@patcraig1637]

Hey Zee! I've played Dead of Winter many times... and there were some crazy moments that I would put in my top 10 gaming experiences/moments. But there were more games that just kind of ended...and then we shrugged out shoulders and put it away. 9 out of 10 times, the game wasn't really memorable for me. For a game that long, I'd want there to be a story to tell more times than not. Also, the crossroad cards got old once you read through them all.

[@piratedoggames1332]

I love B-Sieged. The first few times I played it I didn't do well, but after playing a few more times, I developed some strategies, like having to sacrifice buildings to Molen attacks, or even allowing some of the heroes to get killed defending a side of the citadel in order to help the messenger return. Now I win around 75% of the time. I wouldn't want to win every time, I like having a challenge. I get this game isn't going to be for everyone, but it's definitely a game that needs several plays to get a feel for how to play it.

[@1scalpa]

i was hyped for Robinson Crusoe bc iwas told its a worker placement game but the trick to win is to take risks and suddenly everything becomes random on top of random etc.. and there is only so much failure you can take before losing, that was my first worker placement game and also a big splat

[@mstone1567]

I like Cargo Noir, but I also new exactly what I was getting into when I bought it. I don't like auction games where everyone has unlimited opportunities to bid. Of course the limiting factor is your income, but also having limited opportunities to make your bid, making sure every bid counts as much as possible, that is what I was looking for.

[@marcohoehener463]

my thoughts exactly. This game really played well with two different groups i played it with. No boring at all!

[@sidsmiff]

I like Cargo Noir too. What can you do? We all have different tastes...

[@Thermalburn]

what does it mean when they say Euro-Gamey? I get that it means a game from europe but what does that entail

[@jasonbrown1865]

lol Im still waiting on my ks copy of the others. That said I like B-Seiged, are you sure your playing it right I may be playing it at too easy a level though

[@RyuBateson218]

My top 3: 1: LotR Journeys in Middle Earth 2: Heroes of Terrinoth 3: Dawn of Peacemakers

[@bastien-]

The difference between Dead of Winter and Dark Moon is that in Dark Moon you at least have a chance and a choice. In Dead of Winter, if you don't do your secret objective, you lose no matter what. You're *forced* to play like a jerk in Dead of Winter because of the completely arbitrary rule, even if you're not the traitor. And for no good reason, you can't explain it. In Dark Moon it's just like any other dice rolling game, (either you do well or you don't), but you actually have options and can make choices as a traitor. You can play the game, instead of the game telling you how to play no matter which side you're on, which is what Dead of Winter does.

[@bastien-]

At least when you roll poorly in Dark Moon you can actually explain it and say "I'm sorry, my roll was just bad this time". And it's up to the other players to discern if you're telling the truth. That's kind of the whole point. Whereas in Dead of Winter, literally everyone is a traitor just because they HAVE to do what their card says in order to win, and there's no reasoning to be done. "Why did I build a barricade instead of taking out the trash? Because."

[@toxiccandy7888]

@Ray Cumberledge The traitor would be the only one holding cards, its a necessary rule. And its thematic roleplaying.

[@pickboy87]

Thank you for articulating that. I couldn't put my finger on exactly why I liked one over the other.

[@roycebanuelos536]

Also Dark Moon is one team vs the other, DoW you can have a non traitor lose even if all other non traitors win. Sort of weird. Dark Moon's dice rolling also works against the infected players at times, since they could roll all positive numbers. It's dice rolls so you're either on board or not but over the length of a game the odds tend to even out.

[@Kafaldsbylur]

IMO, the difference is that in Dead of Winter, if you look like the traitor while innocent, it's because you decided that taking steps towards your personal goal at that moment is more important than looking innocent. In Dark Moon (at least as far as I can tell from what information this top 10 gave), if you look like the traitor, it's because the dice gods don't like you. In DoW, you are forced to look like a traitor to win, but you can choose when and try to mitigate it (e.g. taking actions that both help your objective and are the best action to take). In DM, you might never look like a traitor, but you can'T control if and when it happens. Given that, it's completely understandable that Zee and Sam like one but not the other and that they like a different one each

[@deanofgames4661]

Sam a bit ridiculous on War of the Ring. The whole idea that they're at the border and cant attack until we go to war is real life...not just in WotR but in life. It makes sense and isn't problematic except for Sam...

[@bobpoly1034]

Is rune wars better or worse than warrior Knights?

[@Twineandribbon]

Runewars was my first Fantasy Flight game and remains a favorite - but that's in absence of any competition for similar games. I've never gotten a group to play Twilight imperium with me because of the advertised 9 hour game length. While I love the experience, it does feel like a prototype with good ideas and rough edges. It's good to know that if you like that style of game, it's been done better.

[@TonganJedi]

Agreed with my disappointment of The Others, but I didn't have high expectations. Just can't get past the inability to do much of anything without being damaged and so few options to heal.

[@phillip2863]

For me it's gotta be Among the Stars. Everyone has different powers: great, I like that. Drafting: great, I like that. Trying to build good combos/synergies: great, I like that. Planning and managing placement: great, I like that. All signs pointed to something I'd enjoy but when I got into it the game really just felt like I was playing by myself and just happened to have other people around doing that too. It didn't feel like there was much interaction beyond drafting and the effects of the pieces were kind of bland and didn't really do anything exciting. Mostly just gaining more points, and yeah that's the goal of the game but it's not particularly fun in its execution. Really thought I'd like that one.

[@The97gtrs]

YES, thank you for the Dead of Winter mention, I just can't get with it

[@nadja2621]

Dice Tower at his best! : ) Interesting, true and sooooo funny!

[@2112dorf]

Can you guys do a top 10 games by (insert company name or designer name here). You got me interested when you mentioned certain companies were "firing on all cylinders", and I think it would be cool to know your favorites.

[@furleyx]

I love Feld. I love cards with different options. But I hated Bruges so much after I played it that I was shocked. So I played it a few times more, with both 2 players and 4...same result. There's so much love for this game and I just can't see it.

[@stevef3663]

This Top 10 video would make my Top 10 video reviews I wanted to like but didn't....kidding. Thanks guys and good job. Thumbs up.

[@jbboardgames5154]

Hey Tom, there are a few games I was disappointed in but I wanted to like it. One that stands out is Relic Runners. Days of Wonder is my favorite company by far because they released some of my favorite games, but Relic Runners is boring in a lot of ways. I play it but once in a blue moon. There is a broken strategy in the game which I feel like is a flaw and ruins it for me after I saw it. I loved it in the beginning but that strategy bugs me and I have seen it work twice and both times they won the game. The strategy is if you set up all your roots on the river in one continuous path (easy to do), where the toolboxes are. Then you move your toolboxes to the one that gives you point for each path on your player board. You will earn lots and lots of points without relic hunting. Yes toolboxes have to reset but that has to happen if other people want to further their experience of the game. You don't need to collect relics that much for this strategy to work. I could be wrong about it but eventually getting all three of your toolboxes there. Why wouldn't anyone want to do this strategy. Its not a bad game, just disappointing.

[@jaxommm]

My choice: Mystic Vale. It is absolutely horrendous, but I seem to be oddly alone in that opinion.

[@davidpeterson5179]

Yea Sam BSG!!!! Also an hour long Top 10 video, this is a great video.

[@erniemiller1953]

The one video i wanted to like, but - JUST KIDDING! You guys are great.

[@pixxelwizzard]

LOL!

[@commandershepherd3467]

Imperial Settlers. I love synergy building in games and I kept hearing how this was a great engine builder. It ended way too fast to really get any kind of engine going in my opinion. The good thing is I won it at a convention, so I didn’t pay for it. The bad thing is I had a choice between this and Manhattan Project: Energy Empire, and I’ll regret that choice until I eventually am able to purchase the one I passed up.

[@calaban9]

We changed the rule on Rattle Battle a little.. everyone can hold back one or two dice after the drop and drop them in from the side while aiming and trying to manipulate the . Took it to another level.

[@LazyNeutrino]

Fun show. Great energy all around.

[@Zejety]

A lot of PlaidHat games pop into my head for this list. They come up with games with unique mechanics/themes or combinations of such, but the execution often let something to be desired for me. Dungeon Run, City of Remnants, Dead of Winter... All decent games but all have their issues (for me).

[@annjourney14]

You're right on. Plaid Hat Games is probably the most over-rated company currently in business.

[@mogelyCowboyUp]

What other game was Tom guessing what Sam's number one when he was talking about the math ups of different creatures and characters from all kind of time frames? I've heard him mention it before but I cannot rememeber what it is

[@webs1]

Sam's view of The Others is kinda funny considering he doesn't seem to have a problem with a game like Last Friday which for me is in bad taste.

[@Steve-L]

The Others has demons. Last Friday has humans. I am guessing, as I haven't played either.

[@MrAustinflx]

Or how about Blood Rage, where Vikings are going to die in Ragnarok and are trying to kill each other to get the most glory? There's nothing nice about that. At least in The Others, there are a group of good guys fighting against the demons, trying to save the world from the apocalypse. So there is a glimmer of hope. Blood Rage is, I think, much darker, as the world is going to be destroyed no matter what, and in The Others players are trying to stop the world from being destroyed. I don't know....

[@Steve-L]

I can't speak for Sam, I am a Christian, and avoid heavily demonic flavored games, not necessarily because of the depiction, although they are often disturbing, but because demons are real, and have no wish to side with them, even for entertainment purposes. For this reason, I avoid all Cthulhu games. But I know he isn't real, I just avoid the genre completely.

[@legolasegb]

I'm with Sam on The Others. I watch horror movies and Thrillers and play war board games of world domination. I don't know if I can quite put my finger why I don't want to play The Others, but I'll take a stab. The 7 deadly sins are something I struggle with and they are real. And to be corrupted means you are doing lustful, avaricious, prideful, etc. things. I wouldn't expect an American to like a game about blowing up the World Trade Centers or a Catholic to like a game about destroying Vatican City. Playing a game in which you ally with something that you have a personal struggle with is...awkward at best. I wanted to like this game myself, but after seeing what it's made of, I really don't want to play it. That's different, than say, playing a role in a horror movie like Last Friday or playing as a bloodthirsty Count Dracula or Viking or something.

[@Steve-L]

Well said.

[@MrRadialdrift]

You are right about Dead of Winter Zee. The list of things you have to do is so stupid. Also on the money about XCOM, my issue was the timed phase should have been the combat phase, not the planning phase.

[@jeffwmoore]

My #1 is KIng of New York. I love King of Tokyo and I really wanted to love King of New York, but it just fell flat for me.

[@cloud2018]

I rather enjoyed Level 7 Escape. I liked the feeling of being helpless and always needing to stay a step ahead of enemies and it became this cat and mouse game against the guards and aliens as you tried to avoid combat, which advances the end game if you KO every guard you encounter. Love the theme the campaign aspect of it I really enjoyed and the core game is great. The BIGGEST drawback for me was the event cards. With a game like Betrayal at the House on the Hill every event card informed the horror setting with kind of horror infused text, a short story and things like that. Every event card reinforced the theme. In Escape they just didn't. It unfortunately makes an otherwise solid game feel very robotic at times and makes the theme fall a bit flat. I still loved the game and I'm working my way through the campaign now but the cards needed to do a better job reinforcing the theme and enhancing the story.

[@TheFamilyShowdownHRKN]

Sam you are fired! War of the Ring is pure, Grade A greatness! My favorite game of all time! ...but still love you, man.

[@TheFamilyShowdownHRKN]

Sam, you are partially redeemed. I am with you on Xidit. That game was so disappointing. "That guy" blocked both of us many times throughout the game. Half of my turns (at least) was blocked.

[@askadoctor1262]

Shadows of Brimstone. Love dungeon crawler games. Don't like rolling dice to see how many dice to roll.

[@ashleyc3489]

Our little game group loves Rattle Battle. I know a more 'gamerly' perspective is to care about the randomness but we really never care who wins. We just love simulating a pirate adventure and grabbing loot and decking out our ships with outrageous upgrades. It's just fun!

[@rockxhero]

I thought I'd really like Jamaica, & King of Tokyo, but they were just alright for me. Rattle, Battle... would make the list as well. You should do a list of "Games you Didn't Expect to Like - But Did!" For me that would def. include Love Letter, & Hive.

[@jesseokane347]

great call on Dead of Winter I personally found it more of a let down for the imbalance on the number of actions different players can have . we kept getting situations where one player would have like 8 dice while other players had 2

[@eugenb.8448]

Fascinating list that I agree with mostly. Although I totally disagree with Sam's pick of Lords of Xidit. One of the great parts of Xidit is trying to figure out what you're opponents are doing and then hosing them. And here I was thinking Sam would enjoy figuring out ways to kibosh his enemies. So much for the army of one, then. Sigh.

[@koalabrownie]

For someone who is all about theme, Sam's hang up on War of the Ring is perplexing.

[@danielengel4593]

Totally agree with Zee on Eldritch and Seafall.

[@katpogatshnik7953]

Zee; you're the best. Eldrich Horror is probably my #1 most disappointing game. When I saw this list I said "Well, I know if it were me I'd pick Eldrich Horror". I love Arkham Horror, I even love it with the expansions (most of them), but yes, an update sounded great. Give me arkham better, faster, I want that. Eldrich is just as long, it's not any more streamlined, its not any better, and it's not any more thematic. I'd rather play Arkham any time. I also have the same problem you had with Arabian Nights with Arkham, it doesn't feel like the encounters where you make choices really have any correlation with whether the outcome is going to be good or bad. And you have these high skills and no idea how to use them. It's like, "you find an old book, do you want to read it or put it away?" And I say "Ok, my Lore is like a 4, I should be really good at this I want to read it!" and then the game says "Great! Okay so while you're reading it test Observation to notice a small detail!" and then you roll only 1 dice and fail. And it's like that all the time.

[@Mentat1231]

"Also known as 'I am BAD'" makes me crack up laughing every time. It's perfect.

[@DeadVoivod]

Every "Top 10" video, minus Sam's lengthy introductions for every single game (JUST NAME IT), would be 70% less long. Other than that, love them.

[@balukawaiirenekton7537]

Actually that is my favorite part of the list.

[@soren123]

He explains his reasoning well, which I appreciate, but it would definitely be easier to follow if he'd say the name of the game first, instead of at the end.

[@jerrylazzara7925]

My wife and I play the Co-op variant of Dead of Winter which eliminates the secret objectives, and we think it's a much better game that way.

[@raymyers700]

War of the Ring. I understand that you want to play the game right away...but 'them being at your doorstep'...those kingdoms didn't know that war directly was coming. Again, I completely understand you wanting to get to combat...but this mechanism is another way that the Shadow player can help manipulate their armies. Sam, if you diss War of the Ring one more time...I'm going to drive down to FL and slap you around a bit with a large trout! And then give you a bro hug, you big lug!!!! :D

[@jackskellingtonsora]

Zee Zee Zee. Eldritch Horror? Really? What you said you expected out of Eldritch Horror was exactly what it was. A much better, cleaned up, streamlined version of Arkham Horror on the world stage in a shorter time frame. I love you, but wow.

[@tomjandrews5334]

Zee is spot on. Eldritch Horror is too long and too complex. Tried 5 players game twice. First time took 4 hours before we lost. The second 6 hours before we lost. Even solo it took 3 hours. Its a beautiful game and very thematic but it needed more stream lining.

[@jackskellingtonsora]

Tom J Andrews Have you actually played Arkham Horror? Because it is extremely streamlined in comparison with that. I'll give you that it's long, but again, not in comparison with Arkham Horror which was the entire point.

[@ksaarto]

I agree with Zee on Eldritch. Just played it yesterday with a buddy. After 3+ hours we just ran out of time and to quit. We had fun, no question about that, but I too expected it to be much more streamlined. There are like 12 decks on table and the setup still takes too long. Also, you do not get to make enough interesting choices, mostly you just do the one obvious thing and roll the dice hoping for the best.

[@Hilipinapixili]

I friggin' LOVE Arkham Horror, so when Eldritch was announced I was jumping up and down with excitement. Then it finally came out, and I played it, and I HATED it. I think it made me realize why I actually like Arkham: The scope. Arkham is more intimate, more mysterious in a "something wrong is going on in town" kinda way. By making Eldritch worldwide the story kinda loses it's focus, it feels less immersive, less intimate. Not only that, but I've had far worse experiences with "thunderbolt cards" in Eldritch than in Arkham. I played Eldritch like 5 or 6 times after my terrible first impressions because, as the title of the list says, I desperately wanted to like it. I hated it each and every single time. This one would DEFINITELY be #1 on my list.

[@swvi9459]

Why on earth would you take EH and play it on limited time!?