Top 5 Worst Roles in Town of Salem

Link to Curtis’s discord server: / discord
Hello there! Today we’re looking over the data from last video to determine what the community’s top 5 least favorite roles are from a sample of over half a million Town of Salem games :)

[@Adagia]

Alright, prediction time- anyone who can guess what the top 5 are before the vid goes live gets their comment pinned Update: nobody got it, muahahaha the video is unpredictable 😈

[@waddlechoc8289]

mafioso is def one of them

[@DeathDrone]

Poisoner has to be top 3

[@dylanger1015]

I wouldn't be surprised if werewolf or plague ended up in this.

[@cutelittleindig0]

Plaguebearer, Hypnotist, Framer, Poisoner, Mafioso.

[@jen_sen8508]

Jugg, surv, retri, bg, framer

[@testuser3643]

"Consort is literally the best role in mafia!!" everybody else: *dying to SK is fun.*

[@Varatho]

I think using the trial system is going to result in biased results. Mafia are more likely to report other mafia for leaving, which is why Consort has such a high result on this list. It's considered a power role, and the other mafia would be livid at them for DCing whenever they do so. In contrast, almost nobody is going to report a Neutral, because they are only hurting themselves.

[@Yodiak]

This is actually a great point.

[@Adagia]

Mafia are more likely to report leavers because 1 person leaving is a higher percentage of their team, but this isn’t looking at exclusively leaving reports- it’s actually mostly gamethrowing ones, and with the sheer amount of data, the amount of reports that exist BECAUSE a mafia left are just as negligible as unintentional leavers. Without spoiling the next video too much, I can assure you that some of the top roles are ones that would *absolutely* get ruthlessly reported for leaving n1, yet still made it to the top, which means that mafia really are just leaving more often than other factions.

[@theancientmagecloaks1945]

Jailor definitely then XD I'm expecting majority town to be in that list, after all it's easier playing Town since you don't have to fake claim for the most part.

[@scottgill2643]

@@theancientmagecloaks1945 I CC that statement, sir. Many town roles are really bad at claiming themselves. Bodyguard, Retributionist, Medium, Doctor, Vigilante, Veteran, and...Sheriff...and I think that's it. Trapper, I think, is also bad at claiming itself, but I don't play Coven that much.

[@theancientmagecloaks1945]

@@scottgill2643 We don't need to discuss Medium that much *Cough* Med Curse. *Cough* Bodyguard is understandable unless of course Exodia combo. A doctor can easily be proven if someone was healed, Vigi/Vet makes sense because of CL, but Sheriff? Why Sheriff?

[@Moleoflands]

The thing is, the odds of multiple mafia leaving is very high if the l mafioso leaves. Whereas mafioso is less likely to leave if a disguiser leaves

[@Utopia7281]

Pretty sure it said the data only took into account day 1 and night 1. If what you said is correct, mafioso should’ve been somewhere in the top 5. I think people just hate playing those roles because most of them are absolutely useless except for an extra vote.

[@Moleoflands]

@@Utopia7281 no. Not at all. Mafioso leaves - random mafia follows. All count on the stats. Random mafia leaves, mafioso stays. Only random mafia on stats

[@Kolazola]

From the data collected, we can see that random maf leaving because mafioso left does not account for a majority of the random maf leaving. If this was true, then mafioso would be in the top 5. Because with your logic, a mafiiso would have had to leave to cause the random maf to leave. Seeing how that isn't the case we can say maybe that happens for some games, but not a majority of them

[@kylewilson1845]

I love forging D1 leavers as Vet or Mayor

[@DiviNazuphus]

@@Kolazola They never said majority once, they were simply pointing out the error in the way the raw data was analysed. It is a lot of data from a lot of games but the margin for error is too high with how many unaccounted for variables there are in the cause of the player leaving. And a proper examination would require too much effort to get a decent sample size. Also like someone else said, Mafia is more likely to be reported than any other role because you know the player was on your team and the impact is more immediately than any neutral or even town. Coven could be comparable but compared to mafia coven roles are often much more powerful and enjoyable to play leading to the large discrepancy in the quality of data gathered. I don't believe Adagia is at fault here for anything but the data just doesn't represent the actual gamestate.

[@chesh05]

Once one member of the Mafia leaves, other members are far more likely. This is why the Mafia took all five roles including Consort which is a surprisingly good role to be leaving - nobody wants to play a Consort if your teammates leave.

[@jfast8256]

Exactly, it's not the consort that left. It's the solo mafioso that left..... Well consort turned solo mafioso tomorrow.

[@tetra8157]

forger is actually interesting, i claim VH and forge someone as a vamp, then claim wasted my bullet on someone who had defense.

[@vagueified3927]

That’s really smart!

[@atmosdwagon4656]

Two things all of these roles have in common: They are all active liabilities when using their powers thanks to Spy and Lookout. In Ranked, the guaranteed Jailor makes 1 for 1s on these fake claims a losing battle. Spy is able to confirm mafia visits N1, while Lookout helps confirm townies early to close off claim space very quickly. With Town Investigative roles being by far the most likely to appear in Ranked, odds are high that there's always going to be at least one of these roles every game if not both and barring pure incompetence, they completely shut down most mafia roles. All the other town roles have their uses in applying pressure and finding leads, but the core of the ToS Ranked metagame revolves heavily around Lookout and Spy because of their synergy with Jailor. And frankly, their presence makes playing as Disguiser and Forger unfun when it would otherwise be very interesting. (Framer and Hypnotist need to be flat out removed from Random Mafia selection in Ranked to be blunt. It's not impossible to win with them, but you're counting more on Town throwing than anything in those games.)

[@jmagicd9831]

Here’s an idea for framer buff/rework: Framed players now have the following additional effects. - The framer’s visit is hidden from Spy results - The next Mafia visit to a framed player is also hidden from spy. -The framed player’s next visit will show among the Spy’s Mafia visits. Pros: - Framer is now relevant, especially if they find the esc early. Can also make Invests look pretty bad to town. - Makes the spy less oppressive by making their results fallible. (MVs not confirmed for example) - Town needs more deduction to figure out when it’s a framer game. - Rewards mafia teamwork since other mafia supports or ambushers can visit a framed player and stay hidden. This works well with a forger. Cons: - Escorts who get framed look like Consort and have no defense other than convincing town it’s a framer game. - Invests who get framed look like a Consig, and face the same issues as escs. - All of these changes require a spy to be in the game, and for maf to leave the spy alive. A spy not being attacked early could let town deduce that it’s a framer game. What do y’all think.

[@yoshifan2334]

The MV results being fallible gives a bit of power back to disguiser as well, making it not a complete liability to the team. The esc/invest problem is certainly something to worry about, and I’m not smart enough to give a good solution, though it does bring out the problem that esc/cons should probably have SOMETHING different between them

[@jmagicd9831]

@@yoshifan2334 Well one mislynch on those roles would make it clear it's a framer game. Also, since the invest results on a framed player are always framer results, an esc who's target shows up as MV could be exonerated if they turn up with Framer Vamp Jest Hex instead of Trans Esc Cons Hypno, which could make invest a higher priority for TP if the framer becomes that much of a problem.

[@brazenduke8164]

I’d be curious to see this data divided by team. Like what neutrals leave most, what towns leave most, etc.

[@InternetNonsense]

I see serial killers and werewolves leave a lot. Arsos tend to stay around most.

[@Eaglenez]

Disguiser is such a weird role, I disguised the Ambusher and yet the 2nd person to visit saw who the actual ambusher was even though he was disguised

[@curtising]

Nice to see this'll be out soon, I enjoyed helping out with the data collection for this video 😎

[@TatharNuar]

Curtis is hidden BMG CEO?

[@adreesmaqsoodi3339]

One time I was playing Town of Salem with my cousin, and he pulled out the most a big brain play as the hypnotist, he got the vigilante to be on his side, made him claim his actual role in whispers then later betrayed him, AND he never post his will WOW

[@ShadowDior]

Curtis already told me the top 5 worst and the top 5 best TOS roles, imagine that. Was I paying attention? No. Common Curtis L

[@curtising]

Ratio

[@petrkarlik6142]

L Curt

[@user-dm5gg4uk7n]

Average, common, stereotypical, regular Curtbot9000 L

[@SirenPandaSabo]

Curtis is the worst role ever.

[@iwersonsch5131]

Did you see my idea for the Survivor that I came up with under your last video? It went like this: - Up to 4 times in a game, a Survivor can visit someone else - The player you visited will know they were visited by a Survivor - If someone attacks, ignites, or poisons that player's home, you receive the attack as well - If someone attacks, ignites, or poisons your home, you dodge the attack, and you will know that someone tried to kill you - A bodyguard can't save you from dying at someone else's home - You don't have any bulletproof vests - A GA turned Surv can't visit I think that the advantages behind that would be that it - gives you a way to confirm yourself, and forces evils to claim something better (it's almost impossible to say you went to dead people, unless you're exe!) - gives you agency at night beyond just "will i be attacked?" - incentivizes you to build trust with a player during the game, setting up an expectation for who would win the kingmaking in the end, and making the kingmaking feel more fair that way

[@curtising]

This is bad because you can just visit one important role, confirm yourself 100% then do nothing the entire game

[@iwersonsch5131]

@@curtising So you set an expectation to kingmake town, do nothing, don't try to not die to the SK, die to the SK, rage? good plan

[@truedragonash7369]

Much more creative than the surv we have now but I feel like this just doesn't make sense, like, why would surv leave their house?

[@thatponybro6940]

​@@truedragonash7369 to be fair, your mission as a Surv is to obviously survive by however you can, this would kinda make the objective fit better into the role since you are literally doing everything you can to survive, plus as stated, Neutrals like WW and Arso can't use Surv as easily or at all (in the case of a WW)

[@truedragonash7369]

@@thatponybro6940 how does getting attack at another person's house help you survive?

[@default0467]

Yeah 5 mafia makes sense, people just don’t like playing it, especially if you’re in a team less than 4. The roles are usually just terrible.

[@cutelittleindig0]

My guess: Plaguebearer, Hypnotist, Framer, Poisoner, Mafioso. Not placed in any specific order, but i think those 5 will appear.

[@VagueCastle649]

Ooops! All mafia!

[@cutelittleindig0]

@@VagueCastle649 Wasn't expecting all maf, but CONSORT?!?!

[@VagueCastle649]

@@cutelittleindig0 This is all any we're talking about. The mode where most of your rbs will either have no effect, or you run into an sk, vet, or some other environmental threat like crusader.

[@thethunderchieftain5464]

Hypnotist/Poisoner:"You were poisoned,youhwill die tomorrow!" Jester:"No,I think I will die today."

[@sweetcornwhiskey]

Cool results! It would be cool to see what the results were for the 500 roles separately though. Using games from the trial system are likely to bias the results towards roles that get reported for leaving - namely, those on a small team that depends on having multiple people working together. Very few people are reporting the survivor or SK for leaving the game

[@curtising]

The issue with that is the sample size is TINY. i was able to get over 1000x the games in a couple hours. I feel like Trial Data is more accurate than that, especially because manually checking things leads to duplicates and inaccuracies. After this video I rescanned removing the gamethrowing and leaving reports, while there was some shifts the top 5 best and worst roles were still the same, so I don't feel the bias is too strong.

[@sweetcornwhiskey]

@@curtising It is a small sample size, but it's still probably better than introducing bias into the sampling. Checking trial data like that only makes sense if you count games where people were reported for completely unrelated reasons, like hate speech or something. If you only include those games, then the sampling may be more random

[@curtising]

@@sweetcornwhiskey After the video I actually did look at the data without leaving or gamethrowing reports. There were some minor shifts in placement in the middle but the Top 5 worst roles and Top 5 best roles stayed the same. Because of this I don't think the data bias is exactly strong.

[@theone360]

I swear, Curtis is everywhere in this community, I'm pretty sure he's the glue of the community at this rate, lol

[@borb6158]

Could you do the top 5 lowest but excluding the mafia roles?

[@CentralLocation4442]

it would be (from worst to best) Executioner Serial Killer Hex Master Coven Leader Poisoner

[@borb6158]

@@CentralLocation4442 TY SO MUCH

[@JDRed117]

I see why everyone hates FRAMER. "Egh, gah DAMNIT FRAMER!" -Adagia in a role stereotype video, as Trapper.

[@GeneralGrievousCIS]

I'm a new player (basically... I played AGES ago... like most of a decade ago... and am just back now) but based on both my own brief experience and this, I really think we need some "how to play [evil role here]" videos.

[@lienesauserde7419]

No wonder mafia wasn’t in tos 2 for its early access

[@lifeiaskedfor]

my big thing (atleast in ranked) i see is Mafia always leave like 9 times out of 10, and if it's not the mafia leaving it's the NK or the witch cause people have like zero faith in playing evil. they sit there say nothing, do nothing to interact with town and then get lynched and wonder why they lost

[@Utopia7281]

I see mafia, mediums, and Neutrals leave the most. TI’s, TP’s, and TK’s basically never leave night one. Coven rarely leaves although it happens in some instances. Jailers and Mayors(ahem, ONCE) basically never leave instantly. Out of all the neutrals, sk, jugg, jest, and arsonists are the ones I’ve seen most frequently leave.

[@Secret0zv]

Framer and Forger are some of my favorite rolls, communicating with your team for frames and forgeries can easily win games sometimes. You can ask someone to investigate someone, and then frame them. Or have your team accuse someone, then forge/kill them at night, and have them be revealed as a Mafia to make your team seem innocent. It works really well.

[@tetra8157]

I love randomly rbing one of the TI claims that arent hard confirmed so we can push them as being fake, "no one else was rbd, your will is known info, guilty" etc.

[@shadyaura4437]

The new captain crunch cereal: “Oops, all Mafia!”

[@windingism]

it's a mark of pride for TOS that evil roles are actually less wanted than good ones

[@lucasugafan4419]

1. Framer 2. PB 3. Survivor 4. Hypno 5. Poisoner

[@Dark-ht6zo]

Survivor is not worst

[@JZuCuadra]

Others have already mentioned, but using Trial system likely biases the result. It's very obvious that mafia will report other mafia for leaving d/n 1, it really hurts their chances to win the game if that is the case, but town and neutrals are less likely to do so. Also would apply to coven, if coven wasn't just a better faction in general.

[@dtly50]

Yep. The problem with Mafia is that, in the context of things, they are weaker or at best equal individually when compared to town, and have less synergy. In contrast, coven are basically versions of neutral killings designed to win on their own but with a team, sometimes even buffed. Coven leader is witch on steroids, potion master is incredibly flexible, necromancer can be every role that died except maybe pesti, because pesti obliterates all visitors.(nothing stops you if you are brave enough) medusa is a veteran janitor hybrid, hex master is a weaker Arsonist. They all also get buffed by necronomicon.

[@TickleEyes]

I love getting forger! But every single time I’m forger, we hit an immune or some other random event happens. It’s so rare that I get an actual forgery through :(

[@GameBoyDoesGames963]

Ngl I was also expecting Medium to be up there considering that majority of people leave as soon as they die in All Any

[@Cheeser_]

5 Hypnotist 4 Poisoner 3 Medium 2 Disguiser 1 Framer. I want to put survivor in the list too but you can’t call it a good or bad role it just depends on the game you are on but if it’s there I would bump up hypnotist and place survivor there instead

[@NunnyNugget]

LMAO why am I not surprised that Curtis would just casually do something like that 😅

[@SasCreations2024]

I am honestly shocked no other factions showed up here! i know in thegames ive played WITHOUT FAIL freaking witch,and arso leaves d1. the fact CONSORT is up there instread of necromancer or retri surprises me. im just gonna state this since its STILL a problem today. if you DON'T like being mafia, DONT PLAY RANKED PRACTICE OR CLASSIC. or at the very least make hte most of your role, even i stick around after im done forging

[@WithersGamin]

I swear I'm probably the only person who can find a way to enjoy framer. Yes, the role sucks, that isn't even a question, but I make it work. I'm surprised I didn't see PB up here or something with how often I see PBs actively suicide or leave. And I'm in the same boat if surprise about not seeing mafioso on that list, it has to be like 6-10 tho. Hypno is situational but powerful when done good, Consort is just SK death simulator but can be OP when it isn't, Forger is great for starting chaos, Disg can screw over LOs, etc. All of them have good traits other then Framer. It's just that most of them are situational to the game. A Disg doesn't matter if there is no LOs or anything that can be disrupted, Framer is useless without Invests or Sheriff as stated in the another video mentioned, Hypno is only really a "You don't have to claim attacked in jail" card. Forger can be outted that they are in the game like Disg easily as well, so it makes those roles harder to really enjoy. Mafia can be fun but the roles are very situational which tends to make them more annoying to play as. Sorry for the paragraph!

[@anzyroadside2374]

All of them are mafia roles... Shows how some people don't like being evil, even in games where you get to play as one.

[@beaning4298]

1. Surv: most boring and worst role since theyre always sussed and u have 0 skills other than night protection which makes u even sussier (better off with literally any other role if you fakeclaim as well) 2. Framer: dogwater, irrelevant if no sheriffs/invs, boring af 3. Hyonotist: easy to sus out, gets foddered by spies, doesnt actually affect the person in question with stuff like "youge been roleblocked" also pretty sure some messages are different than the original 4. Disguiser: gets foddered instantly by spies. 99.99% does nothing the whole game and can reveal full mafia teams. only .01%of games it might cause a miracle 5. Poisoner: kinda fun with a full team but gets fodderised by doctors and confirms them in return. Even with necro u have to wait a whole day to kill someone

[@zetelofabread]

Adagia did not just do a tos lore reference at the disguiser part. Must of watched pipes vid beforehand.

[@vunivenor5994]

As someone who has over 2k matches in classic, im not surprised in the least that its all mafia roles, what did surprise me was that mafioso wasnt in this list, but id bet its probably number 6 or 7 lol

[@Ann0xi]

I’ve watched this video 420 times now and I can say that THIS IS a Adagia classic!

[@sebash2385]

Makes sense why it’s only mafia at the top 5. Especially since having a small maf team with bad/weak roles usually makes people want to leave the game early, compared to coven which usually have more complex roles.

[@lang5cott]

Rip Mafia, this is why even though mafia is my favorite faction to play as it's so hard to have a good time as

[@saturnage7554]

I'm a bit surprised plaguebearer isn't in the list, it can be powerful late game but it can't kill and its always 1st priority and kinda relies on nc/nb/pirate liking you unless you get a really really good fake claim

[@sample7762]

After every other maf i'm sure pest is next down the list

[@Zedja]

I'm surprised Medium didn't even make the list. In public lobbies it might be useless since people usually quit as soon as the die.

[@Blake_Aphra]

And here I had to check the videos title to make sure it wasn’t top 5 worst mafia roles!

[@NachoPotato]

I love it when I get Mafioso twice in a row and both times I'm with a consort who leaves. I would've killed for that roll! It's the hardest role for me to get alongside VH for no reason!

[@g0ldenma3ter68]

With the introduction of ToS2 I think this is why mafia got booted because so many people dislike the roles

[@SkullTheLegless]

Not quite sure about the criteria so I’m assuming CAA. In no particular order I’ll say: 1. Surv (A role that can’t do anything in a social deduction game based off of doing or not doing things, what a great idea.) 2. Framer (Mostly dependent on invest and sheriff to make use of their role, somewhat shut down by spy. Not really fun to play either.) 3. Poisoner (Mostly here for being the worst solo coven role, confirms real doctors pre-necro, can’t even fake confirm pmer as doc due to a yet to be patched bug(?), has no informational sway over the game.) 4. Retri (Free real estate for jesters and exes, only sheriff spy and psy can hard confirm you as retri, the essence of your ability contradicts what you want to do as a town which is to keep maj yet only being able to use dead town means that unless townies die then you cant do anything, cant even use all town.) 5. Sk (worse GF that confirms their existence with a single kill, your chances of getting someone on your team are slim to none and if you do end up having multiple sks you don’t know who each-other are which can lead to you getting one another killed. (Honorable mention to vampire because nobody likes vampire, especially not vampires.)

[@kevintrang6447]

Wait, poisoner can't fake-confirm PMer? What the fuck is this role even for then?

[@makihimiko3642]

​@Kevin Trang yeah when a pm heals a poisoned person, the person receives "you were attacked and healed" instead of "you were cured of your poison" Plus PM can only use a heal potion once every three days so if a poisoner is constantly poisoning people (which they should do), then people will question why the 'doctor' (read: PM) isn't curing poison.

[@chaosempress]

1:38 I was jailor in CAA once, got killed by maf and forged as jailor N1, Mafia were completely confused as to why someone was claiming jailed N1 when the only jailor was forged, wouldn’t believe me when I told them I was actual jailor in dead chat, then the post game role list confirmed i was jailor. Funny game, town lost, forger is amazing. Edit: Grammar and Punctuation.

[@callmecrimson4806]

Tbh, I thought it would be #1 framer, #2 jugg, and #3 mafioso cause it's hard to find more than 2 games in a row where one of those doesn't dc night 1, or run into an alerting vet/dusa on purpose. Other than that, disguise, maybe surv

[@sabarathore5174]

Everyone ditching the mafia, feel bad for the gun-weilding murderers.

[@NoNo-bg8oc]

this is probably weighted heavily against mafia because if the mk leaves then it starts a chain reaction.

[@jasoncounihan7883]

It's probably true that we see Mafioso leave a lot. But if you're using percentages, this is deceptive; most games have a Mafioso so there's a ton more that didn't leave. I wonder what the numerator on the mafioso's fraction was?

[@buzzkillz5]

I’m so surprised that it’s all maf I would assume it would be some town. Can’t wait to see top 5 favorite

[@gob384]

Top 6 guess: WW, Jugg, Medusa, Framer, Disguiser, hypno based off my games. Solo Dusa and NK is rough. And the 3 maf roles are rough if you are a duo.

[@Abcwhatever]

My guess for the top 5 favorite roles (Not necessarily in order) 1.Veteran 2.Doctor 3.Witch 4.Consiglier 5.Jailor If CAA 1.Coven Leader 2.Potion Master 3.Veteran 4.Doctor 5.Jailor

[@Cringe89563]

💀

[@BirikinPrimary]

Everyone hates framer but i really love that one I still remember i did 3 bird 1 stone with framer n1 which i couldnt forget

[@StarshadowMelody]

As someone who doesn't play this game, the reason I'd leave as Cons, is the same as the reason I'd leave as Esc and half the reason I don't play this game(the other half being "I don't think I'd be good"): literally just the flavor behind it, that's just _not_ something i want to deal with in my games.

[@Lexiam]

keep in mind these records are only possible if a report happens, i believe if ALL games were counted, the list would be very different

[@wraxiusgaming]

My take on this is that it's influenced by how often a role appears, and some of these are kinda bs. Consort being left as at all is kinda stupid considering how strong the role is, maybe people hate it because they don't know how to play the role effectively. Forger being higher than Jani is also surprising but maybe it's because the higher floor on Forger compared to, say, Jani is what makes it more likely people leave as Forger compared to other roles. Hypno is surprising to me because its actually so low. IMO its the worst role in the game and can do literally nothing, but there's a chance the lower ceiling ends up helping it because even though it does nothing and is really easy to figure out, its an ol reliable role that helps out. Disg and Framer I am not surprised by in the slightest though, besides how often they appeared, considering Framer appeared in a whole 1/6 games on average in this statistics. Disg is very interesting and can be very strong but I suppose people hate Spy (a role that I would say is very weak already) and haven't had that nutty Framer game where they managed to get one frame and then use that frame to hit every other frame like I have. They're def snowball roles that you need to get rolling imo, but very fun if you can do that much. If you want my actual worst roles (I'll save my best roles for when Ada makes that video) I would say 5 HM 4 Spy 3 Consig 2 Necro 1 Hypno. That's just my take as a TT/CTT player though, so take it with a grain of salt.

[@wraxiusgaming]

The lack of roles such as Pois, Mafioso, or Surv is why I think it looks how it does. Mafioso is going to be in at least 600,000 of those games, and most people won't end up leaving as mafioso because someone has to roll mafioso. Roles like Pois and Surv just aren't as common as the mafia roles I suppose, and that makes sense.

[@zakmaklak]

I was thinking that first place will be mafioso XD

[@worstblender9436]

i expected these 5 roles cuz they are BORING and/or useless also data was based on reports so thats why there are no neutrals and thats why there are mafia roles only

[@jukerino_]

i like how literally every single one of these was a mafia role like damn

[@Azravir]

I would’ve predicted juggernaut. Jugg is about the only role I consider to leave as, dunno why but I just don’t really enjoy the role. Would rather be any other NK or faction member. But I also would list survivor as one of if not my favorite role so maybe I’m just weird.

[@jfast8256]

It's obvious to me...... Mafia tends to leave n1 regardless of role. It's not an effing consort that leaves n1, just someone who says "eff, I'm Mafia again, I'm leaving" Coven is spared this due to the fact that it's mostly people who haven't bought the expansion who exhibit this poor behaviour.

[@valkari1278]

Consort randomly being in there is so weird

[@chloblox]

I actually love hypno, if you use the witch message it actually dosen’t give them data, it’s like your a consort lol

[@Psydank]

Alternate title: Everyone hates the Mafia, even the Mafia.

[@homie9627]

Hey adagia! Are you gonna try tuba antics ToS mod he made?

[@RAFAEL18492]

I dont think that for 3 reasons 1 is it is only for PC tos on steam 2 is that its a new mod so strats abbreviations arent much 3 it has different rules like no vet suicide in tt

[@curtising]

@@RAFAEL18492 Don't understand how 2 or 3 would be reasons not to try the mod lol. Its going to be different than regular TOS regardless

[@RAFAEL18492]

@@curtising it needs to develop so people can play it understanding it

[@homie9627]

@@RAFAEL18492 what? Curtis didn't make the mod either... Tuba did

[@RAFAEL18492]

@@homie9627 i never said curtos made the mod

[@55ziomal55]

I'm surprised there wasn't Janitor on this list. Realistically it's just a boring version of a Forger. Both Forger and Consort are my favourite Mafia roles because how much you can fool the town if you play them correctly. But yeah, Disguiser and especially Framer deserve their place on this list. Disguiser just dies to vet D1 or D2 to rampage and Framer just hangs out there until a Sheriff finds you sus and Mafia can kill him off in exchange for a useless role. Hypnotist is somewhere in the middle, it's a role I neither like or hate. The nature of the game is just too random for him to matter all that much.

[@ViciousKell]

honestly none of them are surprising except for the consort

[@Fekai]

They're literally all mafia... I think some of us seen this coming, mafia definitely needs a rework or revamp.

[@TheRavenPHT]

All mafia roles, kinda shocked that Surv wasn't up there.

[@incerabbit]

I was surprised not seeing mafioso on the list too wow

[@mustafaugurkoz5081]

İ cant belive some people really bate forger i can see why bc you do have a limit can waste it be useless or even be countered easily but i personally really like it and im 100% honest that i always forge a person for fun as framer and say "haha you thought i was usefull BUT İT İS İ FRAMER"

[@TankieBoi]

GOD DAMN IT THE MAFIA ALWAYS LEAVE

[@jkchannel3149]

It's just common sense really, one maf leaves leading into another. People just couldn't handle playing as evil, especially the casuals

[@davidnwok9263]

I think the top 5 best are witch jester blackmailer arsonist Guardian angel 5-arsonist 4-jester 3-blackmailer 2-witch 1-guardian angel

[@mos5678]

And people wonder why Mafia was removed in ToS2

[@aQuestionator]

so mafia. says so much to BMG.

[@mr0boring]

Also if pb counts as a diff role than pest then it’s worst 1. Framer 2. Disguiser 3. Hypno 4. Med 5. Poisoner also just for fun 6. Jugg Have a nice day! Too bad the vid goes live during school in my place

[@RAFAEL18492]

That is true if pb does not cound as pest

[@Moleoflands]

I thought Pesti had the ability of 'Get lynched the next day'

[@Fangun2056]

Hypnotist is a good role, you just have to know how to play it. I played Mafioso with one hypnotist on my team and we won. They helped me claim Retributionist and we tricked the Psychic into thinking I'm confirmed. So I'd beg to differ.

[@doggyboy6333]

Genuinely surprised that vampire was not up there. I always see them leave in my games

[@scottgill2643]

I certainly do. In nonCoven, vampires have an immense advantage, so I have a hard time believing I had anything to do with vampires winning. That's why I don't like the role. I'll stick around if I'm not solo, though. It's not fair to the other guy who gets his existence exposed.

[@FlipperDumm]

omg mafia getting kekt

[@wraxiusgaming]

Common Curtis W

[@artsyvids2563]

Recently I warmed up to surv because it forces you rely so hard on perfecting your speech skill :3 edit: i thought surv would be somewhere on here, i didnt know maf was THIS bad :(

[@Psydank]

I'm curious now Adagio, what roles made it to the top 10? As in what took 6th-10th place for instant leavers?

[@TatharNuar]

I still think the Mafioso should be like the mafia's "book" rather than an actual role. Give these other roles something else to do instead of only super-weak abilities.

[@TatharNuar]

Also, I agree Forger can be a great role, but it takes at least Jailor-level effort and fast typing to make it any good. Framer isn't even fixable without turning it into red HM.

[@calvinking357]

I think framer gets the most quits because they’re also in the basic version of the game where there’s limited roles, only framer there is annoying compared to the other roles

[@SmoothTurtle840]

This video just goes to show how desperately we need a mafia overhaul update. Too many of the deception roles are kinda just boring to play as, and some of them contribute practically nothing to the team outside of extremely niche scenarios.

[@essidus]

Question. Is this data normalized for the number of players with the coven expansion? I don't know the exact numbers, but I have to assume the data will be skewed somehow without taking it into account.

[@Adagia]

Yes- they’re calculated in leaver percentage which is games left/games appeared in, so even though more games exist with a jailor in it than a plaguebearer because of the classic/coven split, that larger amount won’t be reflected in the data.

[@Triggerhawk]

Yeah I thought mafioso would be the top one for sure. I hate getting it lol

[@doodman6870]

Idk which ones they are besides surv and vamp, maybe framer because hex powercreep and disguiser because no one knows how it works

[@iCheeseguy]

The Consort slander is NOT OKAY. Best Mafia role in the game IMO. Framer and Disguiser would work a whole lot better if they simply did not spawn in games with Town Investigative and were reworked to go against ALL roles in that category, but even then it'd be weak :l

[@qberrygamz7049]

The top 5 wordt roles 1-5 going down.---- Framer Posener Medium Survivors Bodyguard So Framer is obvious, haha Framer useless joke here Poisener is just delayed mafioso/vigilante, but it can be countered before the kill happens. Medium everyone just leaves. I've seen games with medium claims, and some players still leave. Survivor. Just every reason in your video on survivors Bodyguard is the mediums best friend. It's not fun to sit in the graveyard the entire game to learn you died protecting an evil. It's a role that needs. A rework IMO. Can't wait to see what your list is though

[@TheRevivist]

All mafia? Maybe this is why they are removing mafia in TOS 2😭😭

[@LukasJSvedberg]

I feel like ranked practice is heavily skewing results as in almost every game, mafia leave

[@Yodiak]

Actually, all games are from caa. However, the results are likely bias coming from the trial system. Someone already mentioned this, but because the game comes from the trial system, it is likely mafia roles would be high as there is a higher chance of them being reported for leaving compare to other roles. From my own experience people tend to ask people to report mafia leavers more often than other roles due to the bigger impact it has on them. Therefore having games from the trial system likely skewed results towards mafia due to higher chances of being reported.

[@geoman265.]

How old are some of the games from curtis's sample? Because, if they are too old, then the data wouldn't be accurate to how the game is now, as those games would be following older metas, and may also be pre-disguiser rework.

[@kiranzi]

The fact that all of the top 5 were mafia roles...