The WORST Role in Town of Salem History

This video should probably be called “Adagia Complains About Trickster for 5 Minutes Straight”
Town of Salem 2 has done a lot of things right, but trickster isn’t one of them. I consider it to be the most unhealthy role in Town of Salem history, and in this video I’ll break down why and explain what makes a healthy and balanced role.

[@Adagia]

KZbin asked me if my videos “promote dishonest behavior” before I could set this one live, which I mean, I *guess* I do since I encourage playing evils and lying, but I don’t think that’s what they meant 😅

[@Abraxun]

Demonetized! All social deception/mob hysteria games are now doomed on youtube. KZbin: 🎉🤓🎉 Love your videos, keep it up ^^

[@oofoof4875]

L youtube

[@piercexlr878]

I love that its asking you and not literally anyone watching.

[@Adagia]

@@piercexlr878 y’all aren’t allowed to snitch on me if they ask!

[@piercexlr878]

@@Adagia I won't snitch. Unless I feel like it.

[@xLisranda]

My initial thought on old Trickster was... it would be better as a Town Protective role with unlimited uses that functions similar to the old Transporter. You select two targets. Any attacks made against the first target are re-directed to the second. Unlike the Transporter, you wouldn't swap all visits, *just* attacks. And the swap would only go one way, so attacks on the second target would stay on that target.

[@Deadweight45]

Have the trickster act like a pseudo-witch where they control who their target visits. You can also make it so the trickster won't be notified what happened/what their target's role was, to make it more skilled.

[@curtising]

This would be an incredibly powerful TP being able to save someone from almost any attack, no thank you.

[@lifeiaskedfor]

@@curtising if you think that's a powerful tp you would've hated transporter. That's pretty much exactly what they would do

[@curtising]

@@lifeiaskedfor Except transporter swapped ALL VISITS, most not being harmful. This gives someone an unbreachable barrier from just attacks

[@catuwu4444]

Sounds like an existing role from Wolvesville... 🤔

[@iwersonsch5131]

Trickster was an attempt to rework the Transporter, wasn't it? - Each night, you may target two players. - Anyone attempting to visit your first target will instead visit your second target. - Anyone who gets redirected in this way will receive a message saying "You were tricked into visiting a different player!", without specifying who they visited

[@iwersonsch5131]

And you can only trick people away from yourself once

[@bagseys]

This could have interesting synergys with LO, as a trickster and LO cocordinate tricking one person into another person they suspect of being evil, and confirm who the LO sees on them

[@-ism8153]

They didn't like how confusing the Transporter made games, since it was one of the roles that made basically anything possible, but they wanted to keep the idea of tricking someone into attacking himself.

[@VagueCastle649]

While trickster as a role sucks, Retributionist is absolutely busted with a trickster corpse. Kill an evil role, then kill another, then effectively chain rb the book hex master. Only downside is that you fall to a rampaging role and a book jinx, but those are very niche downsides.

[@Dedelblute3]

This and BG are by far some of the best corpses a Retri can use.

[@n-Turbo]

I don't fully understand the "You fall to a rampage/book jinx part How would you die to them since doesn't retri and necro have astral visits to the corpses?

[@DojBro]

​​@@n-Turbonecro and ret visit the corpse and rampage/jinxing will happen at corpses place so u die as well its not an astral(at least anymore) visit

[@VagueCastle649]

@@n-Turbo Since youtube is not letting me post links from it's own website. Search up proxz14 ww rampage ret Ret does visit the dead target.

[@rickmaior9556]

@@n-Turbo ret visits the corpse they use, and jinx gets a forced visit on the trick, now: you got ret visit trick and jinx (with book) on trick, making it so that jinx attacks the (dead) trickster and the ret. Same logic for rampaging roles.

[@TheJumpManiac]

Honestly my thoughts on the trickster: Bring back the 3 limit, and change it so that it's more like a town aligned Ritualist. You guess people as evil roles. If you're right on a guess, that evil dies. If you're wrong, evil roles in the game are notified of the attempt (about how Ritualist gets exposed to everybody when they make a wrong guess). That way there's the possibility of getting an evil out by guessing them, while at the same time the risk of making yourself an easy target for Doomsayer and Ritualist.

[@Adagia]

This is a really interesting idea! What I love about uploading a video like this is that now it’s a collaborative effort between everyone watching on how to fix this role, and this is one of the most unique ideas I’ve read

[@JZuCuadra]

The only issue I see with this is that town has few if any ways to confirm an evil role, so maybe you'd have to guess alignment? Guessing Random Coven instead of having specifically call out 4 as the enchanter based on their voting patterns seems a lot more reasonable, and not having to guess whether the random killing role is Shroud, SK, or WW after all 3 killed n2 seems like a fair balance of skill expression when town doesn't have a way, outside of Coroner, to identify specific killers. Otherwise, I really like this idea!

[@bartudundar3193]

Evil roles should be notified of the attempt at night to make sure a trickster cant just purposefully miss a shot to confirm themselves, which would make the role stronger. But otherwise this is an okay change I feel.

[@JZuCuadra]

@@bartudundar3193 IMO, if a Trick fails, ONLY evil roles should be notified, town should remain ignorant unless they see a successful trick

[@superl8296]

YES THIS. Town guessing role would be so fun. The only problem imo is it doesnt really fit the idea of a "trickster".

[@PipeTron]

All my homies hate Trickster

[@Adagia]

It’s banned for a reason, my dude

[@Dumblookingman]

@@Adagiatrickster should be like ritualist but when you guessed wrong you will be silenced and all of the evil will know your role

[@apogeecreativitee7596]

Honestly, the first version of Trickster was one of my favorites! Nothing beat the high I felt when I scum read a baker, baited the night before, and got the Berserker to nuke their own Baker. When I saw that they changed it I was so disappointed. ‘Too similar to vet’, yeah that’s fair, but I’d rather have a role similar to vet with some high risk high reward gameplay then whatever it is we have now lmao

[@cuac232]

For me the "trick" in Trickster is tricking a tp to "chain" with me so I don't die from taunting evils.

[@user-eo2vl5uj3r]

So this is just an idea I had while watching this, but what if trickster was made into a neutral evil or killing role that if it successfully tricked someone (tk ck nk etc) into attacking them they still both die but now the trickster wins like exe leaving after hanging their target. Idk just an idea but I don't know how well liked it would be or even how it would affect the game but whatever.

[@iwersonsch5131]

Yeah, like a jester except wanting to die at night. That sounds a lot better than what we have Probably basic defense the first night

[@bloxer9563]

Yippee

[@averagemicrosoftpaintenjoy7115]

ToS2 has this thing where they just split town roles in 2: killing role counter and non killing role counter. Sheriff finds non book coven and NEs, who can kill but usually don't, and new invest pretty much finds NKs and book coven (and bers but that's pretty much an NK) and does it crappily, like it can't find people who haven't killed yet which is horrible vs arso but also against silent NKs and isn't any less vulnerable against enchanter than sheriff is. And for the TK slot, vigi kills non immunes while trickster takes out an immune with them. And guess who's usually immune? NKs, and if there's a CL, that too. It is worse against NEs because of the jester vest, pirate invincibility and just exe, but if you want to kill one of them then you usually can, and coven is almost a guaranteed kill unless PM pops off. And then Trickster is supposed to counter attacking roles since it has powerful attack, but you also die which is a much bigger downside than invest. Also if you get it wrong nothing happens and if you get it right you die which very much sounds counter productive. Edit: Maybe fix it by reverting it to the alpha trick, but be able to target the player that needs to get attacked instead of always being him? (similar to disguiser)

[@cyanideytandcuriousseadogg4160]

My trickster overhaul Now can pick during the day It’s a restyled pirate duel on both ends Replacements for each option Scimitar: Pester Rapier: Taunt Pistol: Mockery Defense options Sidestep: Ignore Chainmail: Charge Backpedal: Back out Powerful attack like ToS 1 pirate Against a killing role or the coven with the book the loser(even if the trickster lost) always dies Tie outcomes that deaths involved are unrelated if a killer got targeted Taunt Vs Back out Mockery Vs Ignore Pester Vs Charge The victim only gets attacked for losing The Victims gets their night wasted unless jailor or pirate pirate target the trickster the pirate duel takes priority over trickster duel

[@flippylekitty]

Love how they've changed this role multiple times and it's still bad. Ngl, I feel like Trickster as a TK doesn't work with the way they're trying to execute the role.

[@ChargedBonsai98]

Potential rework for the trickster: Bring back the original redirect concept but make it work more like a transporter. You can select someone to protect and someone to target. The person you protect will have all attackers redirected to the person you’re targeting. If you choose to target yourself, you'll trade with the person you tricked. (Also congrats on the 100x win)

[@Adagia]

Was wondering if anybody would recognize what I put in the picture frame at the end. Gg.

[@RaspbrylZ]

I feel like they've already reworked trickster like 3 times and it never seems to get any better. The fantasy of being able to defeat opponents by outwitting them rather than being yet another man with gun. (Vet,Dep,Vigi) could be a good one but I think it calls for almost a whole new mechanic against your target like getting pirated.

[@CrimsonClowd]

Town killing without a gun is no town killing in my eyes

[@qberrygamz7049]

i would say so but how to do it without it just being pirate but town aligned.

[@scorchiie]

I want transporter back. It was my 2nd favourite role that was removed in tos2 :,)

[@CR1MSONACE]

Don't forget: Crus is a man with a sword, and bg is a man with a worse sword.

[@RaspbrylZ]

@@CR1MSONACE those are TP tho

[@Deadweight45]

Have the trickster act like a pseudo-witch where they control who their target visits. It'd balanced itself because it can easily mess up townies if misused, especially if you make it so the trickster won't be notified what happened/what their target's role was, making it more skilled.

[@therealsuper5828]

Sounds like tracker but better, this should only have 3 charges or so

[@Deadweight45]

@@therealsuper5828 this is different from tracker. Tracked knows where their target choose to visits while trickster would choose where they visit. This makes tracker good as a Ti to find evils while trickster would be more of a TS to mess people up. Similar abilities but completely different utility.

[@therealsuper5828]

​@@Deadweight45 If you decide where they visit, you know where they visit

[@wingidon]

​​@@therealsuper5828​ Tracker can still be useful, however. They know who their target INTENDED to visit. That means that if their target's intended visit doesn't match up with their claim, which is one of the most common Tracker catches in my experience, then the Tracker knows that person is lying. This Trickster, on the other hand, has none of that. They control their target to visit a player of their choice. This can only catch an evil for the Town if it happened to be a killing role or a role that gives their target feedback as well (e.g. Voodoo Master) and that can still net false positives. It supports the Town by disorienting the players an evil visits, but the risk is that you can easily disorient Town if you aren't careful. This rework could also open up room for plays regarding other roles as well, such as Executioner. An Executioner could wait for a Town Investigative to catch someone, claim Trickster, and redirect the blame onto their target, for example. To put it simply, I like DeadWeight45's idea here.

[@bagseys]

Having it so that evils knows they were tricked while townies dont know that they were tricked could make it somewhat interesting, i do suggest this has three charges but having it so townies dont know who they visited means that it can F up whoever you got results out of and catch evils, However it means that without the notification, that a Evil can false claim it and divert attention away from a Coven otherwise sussed out, like if sherriff tried to go on one player, then they found them as Sus, they could pop out as trickster saying that they tricked them into X player, and X player was sus instead Allows for some goods play i feel and is quite skill expressive as an ability, just could easily f up townies though and depends on what the creators would think this be good for the game

[@TFL_Official_YT]

So I've seen other people talk about a trickster rework where you guess evils' roles (or alignment) to kill them, and I'm here to expand on that. First, make it so that if they guess wrong, a message will appear to alert all town members, similar to ritualist's message, however, it will instead say: "[person] has casted a spell on someone, but it backfired!" (rit message will also be changed to this), this gives ritualists more breathing room in case they mess up, as well as forcing tricksters to get a correct shot early to confirm themselves, since they can't just miss on purpose. If you're worried that this changed would make rit too strong, then idk, just make trickster unique or something.

[@carpty6252]

**Trickster Hybrid Rework :** The main idea from this is that the Trickster would be a hybrid TP and TK with 2 different abilities, 1. An ability to visit a player and redirect attacks to a target of your choice. 2. An offensive attack where you need to visit a player and guess their killing alignment and; if they choose to attack, either redirect their attack or gain their attack power to a target of your choice. Which sounds powerful but the main drawback is that you have (2,3,4) charges of your ability in total. (should you defend or attack?) Which creates the possibility for many playstyles. Balancing : I. Trickster could be made into a pseudo TP which gives defence and redirects attack to a target (there are 2 things to tweak : 1. Whether or not the person the trickster "defended" should even defend them, (have it just redirect attacks to another person like a pseudo soul collector) 2. Target's Defense level how high of a defense level should having attackers tricked give? (how powerful of an attack can't the trickster trick) 3. astral/non astral visit should the trickster be astral visiting or not, II. Trickster can visit a player and has a binary choice of guessing which killing alignment they are (townie or non-townie) if guessed correctly, you will redirect their attack to a target of your choice. (2 things to tweak : 1. should trickster even pseudo RB them by stopping their attack? 2. Does trickster force them to attack? If it does then, effectively the trickster will know their role in the day or, should it just say killed by a trickster? 3. What are the consequences for wrongly guessing? Is it just a loss of charge? 4. Should the choice be binary? should the trickster be able to choose specific roles or just NK, CK and TK? What would be the reward if they did choose specific roles? III. Other If one or two things are buffed then fitting nerfs should be done on the rest of Trickster's Kit. Another intriguing possibility is to make the trickster a double night ability role, (perform 2 actions in a night) and MAYBE just maybe, 2 defenses or 2 attacks or 1 of each per night. Though, if this was implemented it'd be hard to nerf trickster to a state which is fun and fair for all parties. Also, should the charges be seperate or not? Having them seperate could make balancing a whole lot easier and open up the possibility of having randomized charges, 2 Charges of one ability and 1 of the other which would definitely change your playstyle a lot and give variety to playing trickster instead of always having one playstyle. (though it has to be balanced to a point where both versions of trickster is fun to play also, the town is different every game) half of this problem could be solved by having you choose which trickster to play N2.

[@cursedhfy3558]

Here's a good way to rework trick. The trickster will choose a target as a suspected killer, they will then choose maybe 1-3 people that they suspect the person they are tricking will try to kill. If the person they try to trick does attack the prediction, said target will deal their attack to themselves instead of the target. Literally hurting themselves in confusion essentially, though unlike before a non bloodlusted sk for example won't die from being tricked. Now here's the kicker, the trickster can only select themselves as the killer's target once per game. This trick has some insane clutch potential and is sort of like a mix between the current trickster and the old transporter. Best part, the trick doesn't die when they trick someone.

[@renamonking4408]

God I love that one girl on youtube that shows up every couple months telling me that a certain town of salem role is actually awful and that we should probably get rid of or fix it

[@ChaseJonas75]

You mentioned bring back transporter, but I always imagined that the first iteration of trickster was to have a transporter that wasn’t as confusing as transporter since it could only push attacks to another person.

[@CinJyxxe]

Adagia! I feel like I haven't seen you in TOS2 videos lately. It's good to see a video from you!

[@last_dutch_hero258]

So @Adagia i wanna suggest how trickster could work as a intresting role, and bring back something we lost from ToS1. The core idea of Trickster is "tricking" people to do something, mainly focused on redirecting attackers, and i like the core concept but the actual other parts suck currently. 1 of my favorite roles from ToS1 was Transporter, a role that could completly swing a game on it's own (for good and bad thats probs why i didn't make it into ToS2), and i got this idea... Trickster : "each night, you select 2 players, the first target will have all attackers (non-attackers are unafected) redirected to the second player in question" Im not sure yet on the further details (Limited uses or not, certain interactions like with PB or arsonists, or if it should be able to protect itselfs), but this could make for a fun and intresting role that can really change the outcome of the game. Let's say evils left you alone and you stayed hidden as TP for the entire game (Yes this reclasses Trickster), and you are in a 2 v 2, and you know who the evils are. All of the sudden you can 180 the game by redirecting the attacker to the other evil in question, making a 1 v 2 into a 2 v 1, winning the game. Whilst this is powerfull this also can backfire if you redirect attacks into wrong players (RIP Mayor) or you might screw over a vigi, this balances it out however and skilled players can really make some good use of it. Hopefully you can make a video on this to bring it to Blankmedia's atention because it would certainly be worth a shot to try.

[@sniperfi4532]

Trickster could be turned into a protection role/transporter in that you pick someone you want to protect and pick someone you want everything to be redirected to (including sheriff visits, trackers, killing roles) and only give the notification that something has happened to the person being tricked and the trickster.

[@birdoverbird]

also gotta love that trickster shows as sus to the sheriff, as if sheriff needed more weaknesses.

[@idkputsomerandomname9657]

I'd rework the trickster's taunt by having it force an evil to attack a person of the trickster's choice. Basically a townie version of witch but it only works on attacking roles. I'd also restrict the number of tricks to 3.

[@Revavroom500]

Here’s my (admittedly not the best) take on trying to rework Trickster Firstly, bring back the 3 charge limit, that adds at least some thought to when to trick I would rework Trickster to be similar to Transporter, but not actually Transporter. The way it would work is it would reflect killers like it’s earlier version, but also other roles that visit the Trickster would get feedback as if they visited the player the Trickster tricked. So if I’m a Trickster, and I trick number 8 the Coven Killing, an Investigator on me will find blood because I tricked 8. Similarly, if I visit a player the Jinx is on, people visiting me will see the Jinx as if they went there, but they won’t actually visit. It’d essentially be adding the Trickster’s visit to every player who went on the Trickster, with the only exception being Sheriffs, who’d just find the Trickster as Sus like they do now, and move on. That’s how I’d do it, but I understand it could have some flaws, I still think this version is MILES better and less broken than what we have now. I was aiming to revert Trickster back to how it was before, but also take out some of the redundancy. There’s room for cool plays, you could reflect an Invest to find a killer, a Necromancer’s ghoul to themselves, or maybe make a Voodoo Master silence one of their own Coven. It sounds interesting now to me

[@spicymeatball4175]

A "tricky" situation Never have I been so proud of hearing that pun :')

[@arandominternetuser4507]

You could say that we weren't "alert" enough to expect a pun.

[@spicymeatball4175]

@@arandominternetuser4507 How do TIs like their steak cook? Pan "Seer"ed

[@arandominternetuser4507]

@spicymeatball4175 Is that so. You "Mayor" not guess that I "admire" my steak oven-"Baker".

[@arandominternetuser4507]

@spicymeatball4175 Oh no, they aren't responding. I hope my puns don't "haunt" them for life.

[@presmetic1439]

Hey! Great puns! I see a lot of “puntential” in you

[@tornadix99]

Just an idea that might probably be bad or not. (or too complex for the game). Trickster working somewhat like a weak trapper-witch hybrid but for town. Taking one day to build the trick then place it on a target, and then remain active across the game until the trickster dismantles it to place it somewhere else, or succesfully redirect an action (if the target did attack or perform an action. For example neutral evils's attacks, but also vigilantes or cleric's heals). This makes the target recieve the message of "you've been tricked!" and breaks the trickster's trick. Placing and dismantling the trick counts as an astral visit, but targeting someone with the trick counts as a normal visit (but places it anyways), so sk could kill trickster if they select them without care or to defeat the sk with their sacrifice or with a cleric. Maybe also to make it slightly better and avoid these conjurators and deputies being trigger happy or something, the trickster can also choose instead to place a trick on themselves and redirect a daytime attack to another. Also If the trickster mistakenly kills a townie with the trickery, they get guilt like deputy or pros and gets hanged.

[@Ichika-BD]

Congrats on a million views Ada! 🥳

[@shaunh1725]

Don't bully my boy, the reverse-Bodyguard ;( Also, that pun at the end felt like a slap

[@Fail808]

A potential rework I was thinking trickster could have is that they could target 1 player at night and copy whatever action that person would do, saving it for use the next night. Say you target a cleric, you would copy their effect and can give their protection effect to someone the next night. Or if you were to target a killing role, you would gain a basic attack to use on another night. And then have a once-per-game clause where you can not trick the same person again because you can not fool the same person twice.

[@noblet1456]

that sounds like a worse ret imo

[@CruorBlossom]

What if trickster targets a player at night, if the target player would attack another player that night, the victim is protected. The idea being, the trickster tricks a target into attacking a fake or dummy target. Obviously balance uses as needed and lable trickster as either TP or TS. Could also balance so tricks only work against evil targets, or let them work on any target, allowing a trickster to save a vigis target for example. Other balancing tweaks are whether the trickster learns who their target attacked or not

[@CruorBlossom]

My personal thoughts on balance would be: 2 uses, label them as Tpow, allow them to see who thier target attacks (not visits). No def, no attack. In this role, trickster can do a bit of TI in seeing attacks, and a bit of sideways TP, but only if they can guess who the attacker will be

[@Langaly]

Weird reverse cleric

[@samsungrefrigeratorcondens4354]

Seems like a worse Tav Keep.

[@daraestkanchi7104]

An idea I had to overhaul trickster was as follows : Role : trickster Alignment : Town (Protective) Ability : - Each night , you may visit someone and redirect all of their visitors to yourself. - While visiting , any abilities that were directly used on you will fail. - Twice per game , you may put on a vest in addition to visiting someone , granting you basic defense. attributes : You are role block and witch immune. - You cannot visit in a 1v1

[@ameliakyle7054]

Adagia you have a really cute voice. Also it would probably still fit the role's name if it had 3 charges and could redirect ALL things that happen to it during the night it uses one of it's tricks to another player, soo all the tav visits, the attacks, the heals they all go to whoever is picked but only 3 uses of it. Probably less broken than just checking everyone til you kill someone

[@Firestorm2900]

The idea I was wondering about is if making trickster into more like letting a trickster make a target choose like 2-3 options to visit, only that one was the actual target and the others could be other target(s) of the trickster's choosing. Granted, that does change trickster from TK to TP, but it could br interesting to make a role that could mess with targeting like thst.

[@andrewdarby8843]

I'm seeing a lot of rework ideas here which could work, but they mostly change what the role does at a fundamental level. I'm going to try to suggest a rework that keeps the general spirit of the role, but adds in the potential for counter play, adds an element of skill to the role and makes it more rewarding/fun when you actually succeed at your job. 1) Make Trickster a day ability like jailor or pirate. The evil player who is being tricked gets to know if they are being tricked at the start of the night and if there are any protect abilities on the evil team, they can use them. 2) The player who is being tricked gets one chance to 'outwit' the trickster. If they are a killing role and select the trickster to kill, the trickster will die first and the evil role will not die. 3) If the trickster tries to trick a role that is not evil killing, their role gets exposed to all non-town players. 4) Trickster does not die when successfully tricking an evil killing role. This is to make it more fun for the trickster themselves. Plus, they have to identify a role that is evil killing now WITHOUT exposing themselves. They have a hard job, so if they manage it, I don't see why they can't get a major swing from it. 5) Trickster is unique. This makes it a bit more complicated, but I think this solves the problems you're talking about while keeping the spirit of the role. If they don't play deceptively, they become an entirely useless role. If any player knows who the trickster is, they can just attack the trickster if they ever get the notification they are being tricked. At best, the trickster is then a BG who doesn't even attack back once they're exposed. Trickster being unique is to avoid the situation where you have to guess which trickster is tricking you. However, if they are careful, they have the ability to be a vigilante who ALSO saves whoever the evil killing role was about to kill. This also solves the retri problem since Trickster doesn't have a night ability anymore.

[@Zero2x0]

When I read worst role I instantly though of Illusionist, but for Trickster Taunt should be a one and done ability when successfully pulled off. The things that are breaking it are Retributions and the ability to keep using it if you are saved by a Bodyguard, etc...

[@cyanideytandcuriousseadogg4160]

That’s kinda good. Make trickster corpses unusable and make trickster die no matter what on success.

[@Zero2x0]

@@cyanideytandcuriousseadogg4160 Doesn't have to die on success just make it like Deputy where if its successfully used on town and you survive you get lynched and if it's successfully used on evil and you survive you have no more ability.

[@cyanideytandcuriousseadogg4160]

@@Zero2x0 my idea from the knight in throne of lies and how aside from the first successful protection if they protect someone they die with the attacker bypassing death immunity and there’s nothing that can be done to stop it. Current Trickster is literally a 1f1 role as it’s basically a town kamikaze. Them dealing a self unstoppable attack always makes sense with the design of the role being a 1f1 tk

[@Lamadon_Pyreus]

Thank you, Adagia, for covering the WORST Role in Town of Salem History! I wonder when PipeTron will finally have his video "DELETING the TRICKSTER as the DEVELOPER role..."

[@tyromix09]

SOMEONE finally said it, i feel like trickster becomes worse and worse every time it gets reworked, the first version would have been fine if it just didnt consume tricks if not attacked

[@Missingno_Miner]

No, that'd still be really, really bad and low-skill. No real incentive to ever not trick, as that ensures you live to lategame.

[@Evalora]

can think of a lot of replacements for its effect but none of them are particularly solid.. the main bit i get with current incarnation of trickster is.. it doesn't live up to its name in the slightest, it's more like a martyr than anything else, and there's a lot of weird things that could come with the notion of trickster like showing in graveyard as something else (would have to figure out who to trust in telling its real role + risk wildling but could feign that coven got crusader for example) or absorbing an evil attack on itself or its target and being able to use it itself once afterwards, at the moment the only thing trickster is actually tricking is town when sheriff finds it and/or being perturbing as it's an easier than usual out for non-book coven and other evils to sheriff i guess an odd fusion of tp/tk (negate attack as tp --> now is effectively tk until uses its attack + maybe isn't subject to guilt death since it could just be 'stuck' on this --> tp again) that could screw with evil targeting posthumously would at least be a lot more interesting than what exists currently

[@32A419]

can you make a video on any crus tips? it is very difficult to protect the right person without killing a townie

[@pacattack2586]

You remember how the VH could listen into the vampires at night - perhaps we do something similar with trickster where the trickster ends up looking like an additional coven member to the coven

[@boomkruncher325zzshred5]

You know, what if Trickster just nullifies 1 attack on their target? Using tricks and traps to prevent a killing role from killing their target (assuming they are not jailed) kinda like a reverse Ambusher? Think the Home Alone movies. Make Trickster not kill, and make them negate 1 attack against their target. Keep the rest of their mechanics. What do you think?

[@DeathByAutoscroll]

Sounds like Trapper or a worse Cleric

[@Missingno_Miner]

I like the idea of Trickster having Home Alone vibes for its lore, but that just sounds like worse Cleric.

[@Andrew-ch3xj]

Worse cleri,

[@Luke-je1px]

What if trickster made the person visit another person if they’re a visiting role e.g. target 1 and send them to 15

[@Darkpq1742]

So a town version of a witch

[@SkyxTct]

u rlly want town witch while the town wants to kill witches?

[@can3434]

that would be a whole role rework since that would be more fitting as TS rather then TK

[@SkyxTct]

@@can3434 it's basically townie witch tho

[@beanslinger2]

@@Darkpq1742 and retri is town necro. what's your point?

[@curtisaten7150]

I feel like it would be cool if it was like transporter but only redirects attacks

[@samsungrefrigeratorcondens4354]

So kinda like a town witch? You pick two targets, the first one being the one you are tricking and the second being the victim, so if you find a killing role you can trick them into someone else so they die instead of a town? That could work, and it takes more skill than just going down the list because you need a person for the killer to target as well.

[@JujuLand0]

To quote from TubaAntics: "Trickster is just invest that can kill."

[@LAZERAK47V2]

Honestly, dying when successfully tricking someone is supposed to be the drawback towards the unlimited uses. You can't kill any non-attacking roles, so NAs that aren't Bers, any Covie without the book and other NEs are totally immune to you. From my point of view, this video is less about how broken Trickster is and more about how broken Retri is. Unlimited uses of a BG, Crus and Trickster is absolutely busted. Being able to shoot without dying to guilt is busted. Retri gets all the benefits of roles that have specific drawbacks without having to suffer from them. So I think they are more of a problem than Trickster right now. But rolling Trickster with a pocket Cleric/Crus is VERY fun for the Trickster.

[@Wyvernil]

With that in mind, the fix to Retributionist might be either: 1. Corpses with limited abilities have a number of charges equal to what they had when they died (or one charge if they had no charges at the time of death). So Retributionist can't use limited roles indefinitely. Not sure if the same restriction would apply to Necromancer as well. 2. Retributionist cannot use the same corpse two nights in a row.

[@NicoTheCinderace]

I even had a suggestion for the title: _"Why Trickster is the worst role in Town Of Salem 2"_

[@duckers3240]

3:14 While ranting about trickster you mentioned how ret could use it infinitely and I personally feel like current retributionist can be also counted as and unhealthy role. I feel like it's too flexible with too little counterplay in it. Looking at other TS: Tav - hungover mechanic Admirer - if you get into toxic relationship you kinda get screwed. And if not you risk of getting an easy two kill for evils Amne - dont get a powerful role die first (amne has a similar problem to ret with counterplay but to lesser extent) Ret - don't let town die that can be ressurected? Enchanter? Town gets stoned? Retributionist can turn into almost any non tpow town almost completly replacing amnesiac + they can be easily confirmed by visiting corpses and they don't have the downside of visiting (as run into ver, etc.), they can become a tp or tk if one of them dies at basically a command. Two counterarguments can emerge from that: Ret can't target himself when ressurecting a tp, most of self targets are hard to use and you often are better protecting other people than yourself, so that's not even that bad of a downside. If none of town die, ret is useless. If no town dies then that's good. And there aren't that much of town that can't be resurrected (yes, etremes exist) I feel like ret should at least get a limit on how much he can use roles other than TI 1-3 maybe

[@samsungrefrigeratorcondens4354]

I think necro should have priority when ret and necro try to use the same corpse. Also roles with limited use abilities should be limited to one use for the ret. Mon/Vig dying is crazy for Ret, and getting one kill or one knight from it is good enough.

[@duckers3240]

@@samsungrefrigeratorcondens4354 what about the tav who can roblock every night what about the mentioned in video trickster who probably is more threatening in rets hands than the vigi what about every tp who can stop basically any attack and counterattack in some cases i don't think it should be limited if the initial power is limited or not, but by the alignment of town

[@Andrew-ch3xj]

​@@samsungrefrigeratorcondens4354no coven is stronger already

[@Andrew-ch3xj]

Akilli issue

[@fragabore]

Maybe make trickster a role where you can select someone who will die instead of you once per game, but if you selected a townie you still die for disgrace

[@carpty6252]

*Potential rework for trickster:* Trickster would be a hybrid TP and TK with 2 different abilities, 1. An ability to visit a player and redirect any attacks to a target of your choice. 2. An offensive attack where you need to visit a player and guess their killing alignment; if they choose to attack, either redirect their attack OR gain their attack power to a target of your choice. (2 options for mechanics) Which sounds powerful but the main drawback is that you have (2,3,4) charges of your abilities combined (should you defend or attack?) Which creates the possibility for many playstyles.

[@superl8296]

damn you pretty much covered almost everything. I wish you talked about your thoughts on how tricksters shows sus and how its designed in a way to become "the fake claim". Since (unless healed) you are only proven if dead and you show as sus. I think its *kinda* good for evils in that regard but i feel like roles being designated to "the fake claim" kinda have to be unfun for it to work that way (roles probably shouldnt be artificially be made good for fake claims anyway tho it should be a bit more natural)

[@Troint.]

honestly, just have "pseudo vet" trickster again but with unlimited uses. if an sk targets them, they still get tricked but ALSO kill the trickster. similar to how they would tav / pois / jailor. if a shroud targets them, the trick fails. maybe there could be a more interesting anti-trickster interaction on shroud, but this would be a simple one. as for ww and arso, they already have means to deal with "pseudo vet" trickster. bers can already build rampage to beat it, and the other NA are not affected. pirate RBs trickster already, other NEs don't attack. coven generally has the numbers and information to simply ignore or lynch it, and sometimes gets rit / pois / witch to deal with it directly.

[@saturn9329]

So basically you’re invincible?

[@Troint.]

@@saturn9329 kinda, unfortunately. it's not an ideal rework, but it's better than all previous states. main issue is coven interactions.

[@kemosonicfan123lbp]

I think Trickster would be better as a pseudo TI of sorts. A hybrid between tavern and invest, if you will. You pick someone to taunt, and if that person is a killing role, they are forced to attack you, but you negate THEIR attack specifically. You are informed that your trick worked and it forced them to attack. The caveats (that prevent you from being a better tavern) is that it's not an outright roleblock (doesn't work on non-killing evils), and it a player can only be tricked once. Evills can counter this by claiming vigi, or saying the trickster is an exe. Edit: I forgot to point out, but I doubt Transporter is returning. TOS2 is meant to be more new player friendly than TOS1 (hence why invest results dont exist anymore and role cards are being regularly updated), and transporter was a nightmare for anyone trying to learn the game.

[@RenShinomiya121]

My whole thought is that since this is supposed to replace the Transporter to become a less confusing version of the role, just make turn them into a TS/TP role that's basically a Transporter, but you have to swap yourself with your target instead of having 2 targeted people. That's what they tried to do with the first Trickster anyway, but a more useful one. It still acts like a BG of some sorts in certain situations (swapping with someone who's being attacked and ended up dying to protect them) but you can do a lot more with it i assume.

[@kurtmatteson4914]

This role is a Town-aligned Witch, but only for direct attackers, and you both get attacked when you're successful. And Retributionist can use it.

[@farmer_betsy]

Trickster rework idea Trickster gets 3 mirrors/tricks. If the trickster tricks on a night they are attacked, they absorb the attack. The next night, they have a witch-like effect on their attacker. They are informed who the attacker is, and may choose the attackers next target. Thisd obvs need playtesting and not 100% sure if they should find out the attackers identity. Kf it needs a nerf, remove knowing attackers identity and add you can choose when to control the attacker (but you run the risk of them dying and you lose your use of their attack). This way, its definitely a town KILLING lol

[@-ism8153]

I'm pretty sure they're fighting for Trickster to keep that sweet 4-4-4-4 TK-TP-TS-TPow split, and it's another reason not to replace it with Transporter (which is really more Town Chaos than anything). Unfortunately we already covered the three options: killing whoever you visit, killing whoever visits you, and killing someone but really hard which together cover deduction and manipulation gameplay styles for eliminating town's suspects. Honestly, if it's going to be a rip-off of a role, I'd prefer it be Vigi: Vigi feels like the classic, default TK despite being one of four, and I often end up thinking in games "I wish we had a vigi." I was thinking about how a role might incorporate voting, maybe a kind of partial/delayed death, or limits on who it could target, but I couldn't think of a way to make it work. Some goals: - Basic defense seems to be power crept this game, so I'd go with basic attack - Incentivize using abilities- neutrals still need more reason to touch grass, what with all the roles that only catch you if you kill - Of course, it can't leave room for toxicity: you can't just kill a ton of people even if it gets you killed (which throws out the Bomber idea) - Serve a similar purpose of eliminating suspects. Try to avoid making a TI (which is kind of what we have now) or off-brand Crus - Leave some more claim space, since we still have a lot of roles that reveal themselves - Avoid encouraging leaving (so not a Ghost Town, reverse Ghost Town, or Town Poisoner deal) - Work decently well with the current meta. Something that can't be played around by just knowing your alignment/role I kind of like the idea of swapping kills around like they initially tried but can't think of a good implementation. The off-brand Ritualist version works (maybe one without punishment that has to guess specific Coven roles), though it gives me more deja vu from Town of Us. Only one that seems to have no problems, though it might not be the most exciting role, is a Hot Potato style killer. Maybe you select a role during the day, and then at night they have to visit someone to pass it to or they'll get hit. Then evils have to deal with "Oh, why did you visit that person?"

[@TC-cq7oc]

What are your thoughts on the Jester role? Do you think it's healthy for the game in its current state and with the current meta for dealing with jestery behavior? I don't play much anymore, but as an audience-member for various TOStubers, I've always rolled my eyes whenever I see it come up.

[@wingidon]

I personally quite like the way BToS2 repurposed Trickster into a hybrid TP/TK Thrice per game, at night, the Trickster may cast a Magic Mirror on someone. If that player is attacked at night, the Trickster learns this and absorbs the attack. The Trickster may also choose to Unleash any absorbed attacks at night instead of their usual ability, using up a single absorbed attack on a player of their choice. This functions the exact same way as if the original role chose them - using the attack of a Necronomicon-boosted Coven Leader will deal a Powerful Attack to the target and WDAH will credit the Coven for the kill, for example.

[@zakmaklak]

my idea of trickster role: (optionaly) change him into ts insted of taunting ppl if they are evil he forces ANYONE they visit to visit them (as long as they can) and trickter would can turn on and off option "if I die I kill who I visited" (idk if max is needed) still make them sus if they use role. if you got tricked you get witch message (trick and witch would have message you got controled with out telling anything about witch)

[@bartudundar3193]

"They can claim Jailor themselves" literally almost never happens unless in very specific circumstances (usually involving an unrevealed Jailor and a janitor in Tos1). Jailor is extremely powerful and claiming Jailor is asking to get exed. Not to mention, Jailor has numerous ways of confirming themselves as the jailor. The counterplay against jailor is mostly the same as counterplay against daylight hangings which is to have a solid claim and mindgaming jailor. There are also options of straight up murdering the jailor if a TP isn't present or if a TP is present just blinding the town by killing all the now unprotected TIs since all TPs must be on Jailor at all times (unless confirmed TPs coordinate but again, that is more uncommon than all TPs just going on Jailor in case others are lying.). The existence of Jailor is both a strength and a weakness in this sense. Of course this weakness is easily made up for by the skill of the player playing jailor when combined with Jailors lethal set of abilities.

[@TheGlendriv]

Midnight video, gonna watch it tomorrow.

[@Minister_for_Grass]

My idea: Night Ability: “Trick” Visit a player and role block a visitor to that player, the visitor will know they were “tricked” Night toggle ability: “Taunt” Uses: 3 Kill the player you visited if they are a “harmful” role (or shrouded) If the player is a non killing role, you will kill yourself instead. Retributionist and Necromancer will always use the “Trick” ability when reanimating the Trickster.

[@KoganeYakumo]

What if we made Trickster like the Dreamweaver? Upon targeting an evil, they must convince someone to visit them or they die the next night. Illusionist, Necromancer, and Witch can counter the role but will have to be give up whatever they were planning to do that night. The Trickster has no knowledge of whether or not the target was tricked.

[@iwersonsch5131]

I like that. Very different direction from my idea, I could even see both concepts in the game at once

[@RoverStorm]

Trickster is supposed to be reworked transporter, but it's the opposite. Transporter rewarded you for being big brain by being able to protect yourself, someone else, kill enemies, or even fix the vigilante's stupid logic, saving them too. Trickster is a braindead zero counterplay 1f1. I say Trickster should have three tricks they can play on people (similar to PM). Reflect, misdirect, and foil. Reflect they target a player, and if the target tries to attack the trickster, ALL attacks on Trickster go to the target (including the target's). Misdirect they target a main target and a victim. All attacks on the main target go to the victim instead. Foil is pick a target and victim, and if the target goes to the victim, the Trickster Astral Powerful Attacks the target.

[@bobstevens5996]

Idea: trickster becomes a coven role and it’s basically like tos 1 hypno, but can hypno messages like the neutral apoc messages. This would 100% be broken without a limit, so we make it 3 uses. I feel like this is good bc it fits the name and Vibes too.

[@Numberplay]

I feel a similar phenomenon happens with Dreamweaver, it is too easy to counter and only ends up confirming players as town/not coven. Basically does the opposite of what it's supposed to do.

[@saturn9329]

Honestly Dreamweaver should stay where it is but you don’t get the message if you cure a townie

[@Missingno_Miner]

Honestly, at least Dreamweaver combos well with Voodoo Master.

[@pixelgamerpro1597]

this is my idea for trikster: an combanation between vigi and vet, having only 2-3 uses. each use will let the trikster trick a target player forcing them to attack him and getting basic defence from the attacker, then he will unleash an attack (powerful or equle to the triked persons attack stat) to *all* attackers. this way he will be far more intresting and harder to play as as u need to trick corectly and at the correct time to get max value... maybe make him also attack rbers to be more dangurose to tav

[@pagwin5308]

I may be misremembering the interview but I thought that the reason that Transporter got removed was because it made things too confusing. If that's the case couldn't Trickster with Transporter mechanics just have the added thing where when you visit someone who got transported you get a message saying "You got tricked into visiting x instead of y" clarifying what happened?

[@RemoraSeifuu]

....what if they made it town prot/support and redirect attacks akin to transporter in tos1

[@talithmara2589]

Ever since Trickster 1.0, I thought it should be like half-transporter. Target one player (not you) to protect, and one other player to redirect to. This interaction only works one way. It's not all the chaos of flipping all visits between two players, but a more specialized TP. Being unable to protect yourself would add that outsmarting element of knowing when and what to claim so the evils don't eliminate you too easily. And, of course, you'd really need to have a good read on multiple players to confidently decide who to save and who to kill.

[@jrock14824]

What if trickster roleblocks non killing roles to discourage players from potentially hitting TIs? That and/or maybe nerf retri so that it can only use a trickster once?

[@samsungrefrigeratorcondens4354]

The roleblock idea would make things worse, as now it's just a better tav keep.

[@verdant1029]

I liked the original trickster a lot but it was very underpowered because it couldn't redirect players into themselves making it near impossible for trickster to confirm himself. Another reason why it's underpowered is that trickster has little to none killing power. Usually trickster would run out of charges before they can kill anyone. Even if trickster does manage to redirect an attack there's a small likelihood it will actually hit an evil. This rework fixes the two main problems the original trickster had: confirmablity and killing power. *Trickster (Town-Killing)* *Stats:* Attack: None | Defense: None *Goal:* Hang every criminal and evildoer. *Abilities:* You may redirect an attack against you to another player. *Attributes:* You can redirect multiple attacks in a night. Attacks can be redirected back at the attacker. *Victory Conditions:* You win with other Town members. *Trick: (4)* You can trick an attacker and redirect their attack to a player of your choosing.

[@lanxcapo7496]

hold up, no lizard picture?

[@enderger5308]

Rework idea: make the trickster act as a pseudo vet which can trick 3 times but with unstoppable attack and no defence (dying even if townies visit). That way, you have to strategise around when you alert like a vet, draw evils in, and still leave the veteran a place.

[@Underworlder5]

probably would not work. powerful defense is somewhat rare, especially among evils. it would just be a worse veteran in practice

[@BlackPhantom511]

Maybe make it like a pseudo bodyguard, where you trick other peoples house and if they get attacked the attacker gets countered, but the person attacked still dies.

[@epicanova]

Pick two players at night. You can pick yourself as the second player. If the first player performs a harmful visit to the second player, you will protect the second player and kill the first player. You do not die in the process. If the first player is illusioned, you will not see any harmful visits. If the first player is enchanted, you will see it as a harmful visit and kill them. You appear suspicious to sheriffs when using your ability.

[@electrica2336]

Make it a town pirate that instead dies or gets revealed to the target when it loses?

[@Cream147player]

It's a shame to create a role that's both over-powered and also unfun to play - that's a hard combo to do! On the unfun to play part, I find it significantly worse than BG. BG can have value without dying because of the implied use of my ability - i.e. I can go on confirmed towns or form healing chains and simply the knowledge that I am probably doing those things is scaring evils off killing important townies - I am having an (indirect) impact as BG without having to die for it. The trickster is not really like that. I guess it has mild TI uses in that I can confirm people are non-killing roles (but obviously still be many types of evil), but other than that, my having any impact on the game (beyond the usual townie impact of having a vote) is basically dependent on me tricking a killing role and dying myself, which is unfun for the player.

[@ReshyShira]

I think making them like old Transporter would be most preferable. Alternatively, they could make them a day-time TP role which allows you to target a single player with a protect and if they get conjured it kills the conjurer instead.

[@Missingno_Miner]

Honestly, I don't think Trickster itself is even that overpowered. Problematic due to having no skill requirement whatsoever, same as the old Admirer was, sure, but not as overpowered as that one was. The way it functions with Retributionist is a way bigger issue than Trickster on its own. I definitely would argue that if this was the TOS1 incarnation of Retri, or even the old, "revive a dead townie" version, Trickster wouldn't be anywhere near as egregious as it is. I'd love for it to be repurposed as a a sort of Town Protective/one-way Transporter hybrid where it can redirect attacks on a target(Not just themself. In fact, I'd say this probably shouldn't be allowed to redirect attacks off itself.) to someone else, with attackers being clearly notified of this to avoid confusion, as well as the Trickster being notified if an attack is successfully redirected for the sake of clarity. Frankly, I don't know if that could be overpowered as well, but it can't possibly be worse than the current Trickster/Retri combo, because that is just ludicrous. Could be fun to pull shenanigans by coordinating with a confirmed veteran, and the potential interactions with other TP seems interesting.

[@insertsarcasm]

Yeah I'd be down to have transporter back, it was a top 3 role for me and idk why it was removed

[@randomguy6680]

At this point, it seems forcing any visiting role to visit the trickster and non-visiting role (like veteran or jailor) to use their ability would not increase the skill requirement enough to make up for it's relative lack of counterplay.

[@Mumbles_Odelyn]

Trickster should have consequences for tricking a townie. If you taunt a TI, they will see a random result, taunt a TP or TS they are role blocked, taunt a TK and you die, taunt a Tpow and the Tpow dies. This makes it so you can’t just spam down the list. BG should stay in the game after it successfully defends a target, revealed and used only for votes just like the deputy after it shoots.

[@FlawlessRuby]

Transporter should be back into the game. I mean I know they said it could get "complicated" to keep track of people being move, but IMO thats something that increase skill celling. I would be 100% down for trickster to be transporter 2.0.

[@ImTooFew]

trickster being a suicide bomb is why he is my favorite role

[@Aderon]

The problem with trickster is that it's perpetually in a state of being better/worse version of a given role. First version was crappy transporter (could basically only transport self to one player). It's second version was just a better vigi, and its third version is just an aggro bodyguard. It really suffers from the fact that the roles in TOS are so well partitioned between what they're good at that its core idea can't help but be hurt because of the devs stance against what was essentially a town deception role.

[@xakurogaming]

There was one specific game i had where trickster didnt suck. Just one... I was crus and he claimed tpow so i went on him. he got a kill n1 and i was on him so he didnt die, not only that but he was attacked so i killed his attacker. we continued to chain for the rest of the game and he got 3 other kills and i got 1 other. Most satisfying win literally carried by a trickster and crusader duo.

[@lastresort1plays]

Here's my suggestion for the trickster, 3 times a game ideally picked at day (for more differentiation) the trickster tricks a target by swapping all of the following nights night time effects to their target. This is similar to the old role but includes positive and negative effects, and puts agency somewhat in their tricksters hand.

[@samual_not_samuel]

Make trickster a town support role, your ability is to redirect all visits on your target to another target. You can't play a trick on the same people two nights in a row. You can trick killing roles into attacking themselves if you redirect from the townie they attacked to the attacker. All players that visit your main target will receive a message letting them know they've been tricked. It only works one way, so a player visiting your second target won't be sent to your main target.

[@notreal5135]

The problem with this is the same problem of transporter. How do you resolve multiple tricksters in a way that won’t make things way too confusing.

[@samual_not_samuel]

@@notreal5135 The role would have to be unique, there are too many edge cases otherwise. Also have it so the message that lets you know you've been tricked tells you what target you actually visited. Should alleviate some of the confusion.

[@Andrew-ch3xj]

​@@notreal5135oh no mybrain cannot hanfle iy T

[@wraxiusgaming]

Ada, what do you think of a rework for Trickster where if the trickster and an evil target the same person, the evil is randomly forced somewhere else? We would probably have to take it out of TK but it instead gives a niche of, instead of suiciding and hoping Ret can pick it up, you now make evils visit unreliably and could even make evils visit each other, although randomly. I dont want to give it control over the second visit because you would basically just turn that into trans but only on evils, and I do not need to say why I think it would be too swingy in an already too swingy game. It at least will give the counterplay of "I know trickster is probably sitting on the Jailor so I can't target them, let's kill the trickster or TP that might be on the trickster and get through (same thing you do to play around TP) or have the Conj or Rit or Illusionist get us past the Trickster."

[@unknowed5048]

1:45: No skill or risk involved Example: Admirer Ritualist/Doomsayer: Am I a joke to you?

[@Adagia]

I’d argue that ritualist is one of the riskiest roles in the game. You’ve gotta have 100% confidence in who you’re guessing or you’re screwed

[@unknowed5048]

@@Adagia Well meant that the counterplay for Old Admirer is literally Ritualist/Doomsayer but it came off in a wrong way. It can be noted that Conj with nuke can go for double tho

[@Adagia]

@@unknowed5048 ah. mb.

[@doozie1578]

Maybe a stupid idea, but i think the only way to fix/make bg and trickster actually fun to play would be to make them neutral roles. You wouldn’t have to change the roles at all but instead just simply have them win by themselves , bg by protecting their target and talking down an attacker, whether it be evil or a role like vigi and trickster being able to trick both town killings and evil roles. This would also help solve the whole retri thing and i dont see it being too powerful for necro since they often have better roles to use like sk or ww and the body decaying. Im not too experienced with tos2 balancing but its just my idea

[@Mattssz]

Cool idea but TOS 2 doesn't like kingmaker scenarios. Also that BG idea would literally just be GA but more evil

[@rambutan3655]

I thought they rework retri to only use the unused skill. Like if trickster have 3 charge left, they can only use it trice. Correct me if I understand wrong

[@O-01-04]

If I recall correctly; Retri can use abilities of a corpse as long as they have the ability to actually use it still. (I.E. They can use Vigi 1-3 times depending on the vigi's bullet count before they can't use it anymore) Trickster no longer has any charges to its ability; so it can braindead ram headfirst into an evil; and then the Retri can pick up the Trickster and start using them infinitely, due to lacking the downside of dying from hitting a killing role with trick and trick simply *not* having charges anymore.

[@rambutan3655]

@@O-01-04 oh. That is what I am thinking. I though trickster still have limitation like vigi. I just forgot what I just watch. Thanks

[@O-01-04]

@@rambutan3655 no problem

[@yoshifn5k]

ngl the way trickster is played now is essentially just a TI with no counterplay, you just pick people, but instead of also having to push to get them lynched, you just automatically kill them, and then afterwards you dont even get to play the game.

[@LanaIsUnderrated]

A stereotype for Trickster: *Ah yes, lets Taunt the confirmed vigilante!*

[@-psilo-9071]

The cool thing about this video is that this role is 100 percent going to be reworked at some point unlike your old town of salem 1 videos were they never will be.

[@Mr60Gold]

While I see the problem with current Trickster, I think there are many ways to rework them and see how it goes: 1. Have them choose 2 people, these 2 people now visit each other instead. (They would not be able to choose themself for this) [This could work as a Town or Neutral trickster] 2. Have a trickster that has to target 3 players, if either of the first 2 visit the other, they visit the third player you targeted instead. (This way you would be rewarded for correctly reading who visits who and be able to manipulate the game as such, being able to choose yourself if you expect a specific player to visit you.) 3. Have them choose 2 players during the day, a target and who they MIGHT visit instead. (This would result in the player you targeted to get a message at night saying "The trickster messed with your sight, you might visit [player name] instead of your intended target", now you would have a 50% chance to visit your intended target or the target that the trickster chose for you, with neither you or the trickster knowing who exactly you went for. This would result in a lot of pressure as if the role was a killer from Coven, you could threaten them with a chance of killing on of their own or if there is a player that is confirmed but isn't doing too well with his role, you could somewhat help them out.) 4. Turn Trickster into coven and have them be a killing role that upon killing someone, would make it seem that they died and they would turn into the player that they killed (with no medium there would be no way to easily tell that they disguised themself as their victim) 5. Have the trickster choose 4 people during the day, 1 target and then 3 people that they can visit at night. (This would make it so that the trickster can limit the player's choices to just 3 people for that night.) 6. Grant the trickster up to 7 uses of his ability but now they can select multiple people as well as having ALL abilities redirected to him, not just killing roles. (so they can use 1 or more uses each night, so if they really want they could just use all 7 on a single night, granting them more skill expression with how they use it) 7. Instead of redirecting attacks, have them change the ability of that player for the night (making it a day ability). Limit it to 2 or 3 uses and grant them the power to change what the person does (e.g. have the serial killer use the doctor's heal instead or have your sheriff work as a bodyguard instead) (I would have it so that there is a warning but without telling the player what it is so that they know their ability is changed but don't know to what.) I could go on but this should suffice for now, I will also leave more details in individual replies to this comment. (All feedback to this is appreciated, just thought I'd throw my hat into the ring to see if I can offer some ideas on how to fix Trickster)

[@Mr60Gold]

2. This idea would result in a massive increase in the skill requirement for Trickster as choosing 2 people randomly would no longer give you any benefit. This option would grant the trickster player a sense of accomplishment for reading the players correctly (obviously getting easier as there are less players), predictions would be key to successfully using this, not to mention knowing who to have them target instead. This would definitely be a tricky role to get the hang of but I believe it would be a lot more fun to play and master as a result.

[@Mr60Gold]

3. The rng of this one is likely going to be an instant no for many but the main aspect is to play mind games (like a trickster should), a killer might not risk going for anyone if the alternative option is their own teammate or a player that they know is guarded or a confirmed veteran. It is a simple ability but it would put them in a panic state as they would have to play around it, messing up their plan or changing it to some degree. Rng or not, this would definitely change how player play the game if a trickster with this ability was around.

[@Mr60Gold]

4. If memory serves this is how the old disguiser used to work. Whether that is true or not, it cannot be denied that without a medium this ability now can be used effectively with players acting as other players and people having to wonder if that is still them or did they die and are now a disguised trickster. This would be a very powerful role for coven, especially if they could get their hands on confirmed town as they would still appear confirmed, this woulf emphasize the importance of the deduction aspect of TOS as you would need to keep an eye out on everything. (Still not certain on how many times they should feasibly be able to use it, definitely 1-3 at max.)

[@Mr60Gold]

5. This role would let you manipulate the game to some extent by limiting who your target can visit. This could be used to protect confirmed players from potential killers, increase the chances that they go into a veteran, bodyguard, etc, or threaten them by having their own allies be targets. This could also be used to force your fellow townies to play closer to how you want by forcing them to choose between the 3 players that you chose for them. This wouldn't be too hard of a role to play but it also wouldn't be braindead as you would need to think of who you target and what people to have them potentially visit, then having to deduce stuff from that. This option in my opinion has potential but it could also be very weak.

[@Mr60Gold]

6. The simlplest change that doesn't really get rid of the lack of counterplay but allows for more ways to play the Trickster, giving more potential for skill expression and experimentation.

[@Bruh-wc1fd]

hey could you talk about how sheriff and coroner are literally the worst ti in the game currently thanks and also how arsonist is literally impossible to know exists in the game because only spy can know they exist