Top 5 Worst Zelda Theories Ever (And Why They're Wrong)

Top 5 Worst Zelda Theories Ever and Why they're Wrong!
Top 5 Best Zelda Theories Ever - • Top 5 Best Zelda Theor...
Breath of the Wild Timeline Placement - • Zelda Theory | Breath ...
Breath of the Wild 2 News - • HUGE NEW LEAK | Zelda ...
Twilight Princess Origins - • Zelda Theory - History...
Cancelled Zelda Majora's Mask 2 - • Cancelled Majora's Mas...
Origins of Demise & Lorule - • Zelda Theory | Demise ...
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► 𝐉𝐨𝐢𝐧 𝐎𝐮𝐫 𝐃𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐫𝐝- / discord
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𝐃𝐚𝐧𝐢𝐞𝐥 - / chewbleema
𝐊𝐚𝐲𝐥𝐚 - / captburgerson
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► 𝐅𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐨𝐧 𝐈𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐦
𝐆𝐞𝐞𝐤 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐞 - / thegeekapprentice
𝐉𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞 - / gameoverjesse
𝐊𝐚𝐲𝐥𝐚 - / chewbleema
𝐃𝐚𝐧𝐢𝐞𝐥 - / captburgerson
► 𝐎𝐮𝐫 𝐎𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐓𝐮𝐛𝐞 𝐂𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐥𝐬
𝐃𝐚𝐧𝐢𝐞𝐥 - • The Problem with the "...
𝐆𝐞𝐞𝐤 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐞 - • TEARS OF THE KINGDOM R...
► 𝐋𝐨𝐨𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐀𝐧 𝐎𝐟𝐟𝐢𝐜𝐞 / 𝐆𝐚𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐂𝐡𝐚𝐢𝐫 𝐨𝐫 𝐃𝐞𝐬𝐤?
𝐔𝐬𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐝𝐞 "𝐆𝐎𝐉" 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝟏𝟓% 𝐨𝐟𝐟
► 𝐆𝐚𝐦𝐞𝐎𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐉𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞 𝐌𝐞𝐫𝐜𝐡 & 𝐒𝐡𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐀𝐫𝐞 𝐨𝐧 𝐒𝐀𝐋𝐄 𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐚 𝐋𝐈𝐌𝐈𝐓𝐄𝐃 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄. - teespring.com/...
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► Zelda Theories
Breath of the Wild Timeline Explained - • Zelda Theory | Breath ...
History of Dark Link - • History of Dark Link -...
Demise, Lorule & Stone Tower Temple Origins - • Zelda Theory | Demise ...

[@GameOverJesse]

Top 5 Worst Zelda Theories Ever and Why they're Wrong! ►𝐏𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐞 𝐒𝐮𝐩𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭 𝐨𝐧 𝐏𝐚𝐭𝐫𝐞𝐨𝐧 - www.patreon.com/GameOverJesse ► 𝐉𝐨𝐢𝐧 𝐎𝐮𝐫 𝐃𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐫𝐝- discord.gg/acRqRBx ► 𝐅𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐨𝐧 𝐓𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐃𝐚𝐧𝐢𝐞𝐥 - twitter.com/Chewbleema 𝐊𝐚𝐲𝐥𝐚 - twitter.com/CaptBurgerson 𝐉𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞 - twitter.com/GameOverJesse ► 𝐅𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐨𝐧 𝐈𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐦 𝐆𝐞𝐞𝐤 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐞 - instagram.com/TheGeekApprentice 𝐉𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞 - instagram.com/GameOverJesse 𝐊𝐚𝐲𝐥𝐚 - instagram.com/Chewbleema 𝐃𝐚𝐧𝐢𝐞𝐥 - instagram.com/CaptBurgerson ► 𝐎𝐮𝐫 𝐎𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐓𝐮𝐛𝐞 𝐂𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐥𝐬 𝐃𝐚𝐧𝐢𝐞𝐥 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWa6kqGlftV9pJo 𝐆𝐞𝐞𝐤 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐞 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIaWZ41nhr6Lfc0 ► 𝐋𝐨𝐨𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐀𝐧 𝐎𝐟𝐟𝐢𝐜𝐞 / 𝐆𝐚𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐂𝐡𝐚𝐢𝐫 𝐨𝐫 𝐃𝐞𝐬𝐤? 𝐔𝐬𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐝𝐞 "𝐆𝐎𝐉" 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝟏𝟓% 𝐨𝐟𝐟 ► 𝐆𝐚𝐦𝐞𝐎𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐉𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞 𝐌𝐞𝐫𝐜𝐡 & 𝐒𝐡𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐀𝐫𝐞 𝐨𝐧 𝐒𝐀𝐋𝐄 𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐚 𝐋𝐈𝐌𝐈𝐓𝐄𝐃 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄. - teespring.com/GameOverJesseNew Buy a shirt, send us a picture or video of you wearing it and we will feature you in a video & share it on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook and tag you. ► Zelda Theories Breath of the Wild Timeline Explained - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWHboY2YZdCIe7M& History of Dark Link - kzbin.info/www/bejne/fae8dGabfMd8r80 Demise, Lorule & Stone Tower Temple Origins - kzbin.info/www/bejne/moOxd5V5mtxngKs

[@notthedj343ok4]

GameOver Jesse Jesse I think I might have debunked your theory Keep in mind these are not in any order it’s just the way they came to my head Proof towards theory: -Sealed temple/Temple of hylia = temple of time -Reference to lttp oot ss tp windwaker and more -Hylia is on edge of time -Rito zora koroks gorons -Hylia must be goddess of time shown by point one which means she might be able to merge the timelines Evidence against the theory: -If all 3 timelines merged together why is there only 1 master sword -Where are the evil Zora from the downfall timeline -(Unless I’m mistaken) there is no mention of previous links and Zeldas and the costumes and wolf link don’t count as they are just fan service and arent in the base game -Many locations and location names could just be fan service and nothing else -Nintendo could have put it under all three to get people talking about its placement -Nintendo only said it happens long after oot and never said it happened within any of the current splits as it could be a new one with many characters from other games -Just because Easter eggs and nods exist doesn’t mean that they are instantly connected as physical proof in game is better than names of locations as they could just be left for keen eyed players because not everything means something e.g. in metal gear solid twin snakes you can find mario and Yoshi figures -The golden goddesses don’t seem to be able to interact with the world unless at a spring where they can speak to you so if the song of time reaches out to hylia (who we are assuming is the goddess of time) she is able to interact with the world and since the gate of time and pedestal of time also seem to have this affect then it must be hylia interact through these things so unless one of these were used she couldn’t do it -Zelda is hylia and by edge of time it could mean that she left the message but is now at the edge of time as she will live on as all the zeldas and what demise was referring to is he will live on as gannon and gannondorf???? Any way do what you want with this some of the things I’m using to debunk you could probably be debunked anyway But I just realised that these could debunk your theory

[@kakarikokage2514]

Sorry for the length of the comment but... I'm not partial to the convergence theory. Mostly due to the fact that looking at it from a scientific viewpoint it would be impossible to fuse three radically different timelines together cleanly. I also don't buy into the, "It's magic", excuse many people I've discussed this with fall back on as an end all statement. Elder Scrolls can pull it off because it's many events surrounding the one hero of that particular game happening at the same time, whereas with Zelda you'd be trying to fuse three histories into one. In that sense, Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword could get a break, as the theory has all the events of their particular stories happening all at once, but not the whole timeline. Although, the events of Majora's Mask kind of answer that for themselves. Link simply brings the masks he obtained back through time and the memory of the happiness they brought others is carried within. Therefore, even if you choose to complete the Anju/Kafei side quest and let the old lady get robbed, the bomb mask you obtained in the other future past retains the happiness imbued within when he saved her before. (As a side note, if you manage your time wisely, and use the shortcuts to the boss rooms, it is possible to help all the people save for the bomb shop owner and the Great Fairies seen during the ending credits) As for Hylia and her messages from the edge of time, I believe they are just that. Messages left for the hero and her own reincarnated form to receive. Skyward Sword did take the time to explain that Hylia made preparations for the future. As for most of the inconsistencies in how time works In that game... Well it is a bit of a headache and, though it doesn't really explain everything, the best theory I could come up with is time displacement. A theory that two of the same objects or people cannot exist simultaneously In the same timeline and, thus, one will temporarily cease to exist until the anomaly is gone. Usually it is the object/person who inhabits that timeline that remains. Therefore, even though Link places the Master Sword in the pedestal at the end of the game, you cannot see it through the crack in the door at the back of the temple until the sword actually disappears from his person in the present. In the end though, Nintendo has stated that the timeline placement for BOTW is up to the imagination of the player, so I can't really say anyone is wrong. Except if they believe it is before Ocarina of Time or any of the games before that. I mean, seriously?! It's at the end of the timeline! Pick one, all three, or heck, have the game be a inevitable outcome of each timeline like I stand behind. As long as we share Nintendo's stance of let the players decide, then we can all get along and just accept each other's viewpoints. Anyway, that's my stance on the timeline debate.

[@notthedj343ok4]

Kakariko Kage Those are some solid points and I agree I don’t believe strongly in the convergence theory although it still is a possibility I just wanted to try and debunk the theory and I respect your views Thank you

[@GameOverJesse]

The_DJ _343 I didn’t like the convergence theory at first, but then I read a bunch of interviews where aonuma himself confirmed it. As I see in this video if you are able to devote one of my theories I will think you, because that means I can go back to the drawing board to try and create an even better one. We all learn from our mistakes and friendly debating is very fun for me. And also a way to get yourself on our KZbin channel to discuss your theory with us. Which I also Mentioned in this video

[@kakarikokage2514]

Thanks, you brought up some great points as well. It's one of the reasons I like discussing theories on Jesse's channel. Different points of view that treat each other respectfully. Usually, discussing theories online tends to get heated and sometimes gets out of hand.

[@smileyjojo4913]

Damn it I was hoping Aonuma actually called someone stupid

[@GameOverJesse]

He called me stupid "edit: this was obviously a joke"

[@despacitopotato2665]

@@GameOverJesse For real?

[@aliradhaalsaidy8892]

Yea totally

[@ZeldaLover6]

Pics.

[@MaximeLafreniere433]

Little precision for the MM theory, there are 5 stages, not 4. My own little theory: Nintendo used them for inspiration for all regions.

[@MaximeLafreniere433]

Well, it's a theory I had.

[@silversaiyan3783]

I go with that theory. It's kind of what I thought playing through the game.

[@Eucalyptus_Sage]

I'd double like this comment is I could

[@MaximeLafreniere433]

You want to post the same comment (I'm not sure to understand...)?

[@Eucalyptus_Sage]

@@MaximeLafreniere433 I meant that I really liked your comment (also it was supposed to say if not is)

[@eljaminlatour6633]

14:15 that's why people confuse the hero of winds with the hero of time.

[@antoniopanzetta4778]

WW being 100 years after OoT is weird to me. I always thought it was 500-1000 years after. The worlds flooded, Hyrule’s forgotten, an entire species has evolved, and Ganon’s been forgotten. The Zora evolving into the Rito is the main thing that makes the 100 years seem weird. Ik that Aonuma and Miyamoto said that it’s 100 years, and I must respect that, but I still have my head canon that it’s 500-1000 years later.

[@lordtullus9942]

Ok, what? You went from 5, to 4, to 3, to a long ass tangent about advertising, and then straight to number 1? Please explain how this is top 5 and not "top 4 with heavy advertising of our own successes".

[@girlwithoutafairy]

Breath of the Wild takes place at the beginning Link is Dead in Majoras Mask Dark Link is Demise All Links are related Literal Legend Theory I think that's 5 mate

[@deny_pentagram]

Great video, Jebbe! Damn, I haven't even heard about that Dark Link Demise theory. Oof, that's a bad one. :D

[@mariocaleb1161]

If that's your opinion!

[@starlight5512]

Get ready I'm about to insult you for no reason!

[@FabledThunder]

Deniz is right, the demise dark link theory is stupid.

[@user-em7ig3lk7l]

While Breath of the Wild obviously doesn't take place before Skyward Sword, I think it would be interesting to see one that did. It would be during Hylia's reign before Demise attacked, and thus before Skyloft. It would also be before the master sword, and the reincarnation of Link and Zelda, so it could essentially be whatever it wanted.

[@switchlaserflip9243]

Pretty much all game theories are bs. Random fans don't decide what the story line is and they can't decide what the characters are thinking. You would have to ask the maker of the game/writer of the story.

[@lordtullus9942]

Its still fun to think about. That said, death of the author is a stupid concept that basically makes reading or taking in any kind of media poinless in and of itself.

[@mrsunderstood8141]

I really wish we had a kokiri champion. Would have been adorable and interesting with the whole 'how did they leave lost woods'

[@TheSchnieder6]

I'm glad that, in that regard, they stepped away from that loli-fest

[@itsshelby]

This video opens with an incredibly uncomfortable and condescending tone and it really doesn't get much better as it goes

[@azariasthelast]

To me it doesn’t make sense there should be a split timeline. At the end of OOT link closes the door of time at a point before he meets Zelda. Since ganon never becomes all powerful, he doesn’t create a dark world 7 years later. So it’s basically like if your parents went back in time to the night you were conceived and just didn’t have sex. You don’t exist in the present because a new present was created.

[@AshenSpark]

Both of those presents still exist just like how in ocarina of time both of the situations still go on at the same time in different universes. It's a easy way to stop paradoxes because if it all just starts a new universe then you can't stop yourself from going back in time or anything it just doesn't happen in that universe and did in the one you came from.

[@complex314i]

The wors theory I ever heard is that no two zelda games have the same incarnation of link. Clearly False! Same Link in: 1. Original LOZ & Zelda II 2. Ocarina of Time & Majora's mask. 2. Wind Waker & Fantom Hourglass. 3. Oracle of Season & Ages are one story. This is the same link from A Link to the Past between that game and Link's Awakening. 4. A Link Between Worlds and Triforve Heros.

[@Gloomdrake]

I want the Anouki back

[@kimzee59]

For me personally, I know that the link is dead in Majora's mask theory is wrong and there is nothing that will make it right but part of me just loves the thought of that theory. Like the concept of it is great to me even if it will never be right.

[@asgth6147]

So TP Link is a descendant of OoT Link? Didn't OoT Link die in the forrest searching for Navi or something like that which made him a Stal? When did he have time to get a kid?

[@GameOverJesse]

I can’t tell if you are being serious or if this is a troll post. That link is dead Theory is the worst theory ever and one of the few theories that the creators of the game have debunked themselves. If Link died as a child. How is the hero’s shade an adult skeleton, not a child and how would he be able to have a family if he died as a child?

[@asgth6147]

@@GameOverJesse I wasn't referring to the theory, just that i remember reading that after Majora's mask he went searching for Navi in the forrest, and due to him being a Stal in TP made me simply guess that he died there after some years.

[@ZeldaLover6]

The original games box an manual both say Termina is an alternate world. Also somebody, I can’t remember who at the moment, did an experiment where they fell from a tall hight onto a Deku Flower and they will cushion Link’s fall from any height. (It was a video here on KZbin in the last few years.)

[@LinksKat]

Um, it's the five stages of grief just so you know, not four. Thought to inform you on that.

[@mobybrick2357]

So is link the same guy reincarnated every time or not? There's a million things that point towards both being true andninjustbeant a straight answer

[@KingCleCle]

I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who is not confused by the timeline 😁

[@1996Stein]

Link is most definitely not dead in Majora, but I've always interpreted the 'stages of grief' as Link's personal journey to deal with the loss of Navi, a parallel to Skull Kid dealing with his perceived loss of the giants. A story about two kids lost in the woods, coming to terms with the loss of their friends. I also assume the Skull Kid in Twilight Princess is the one from Majora and is there to guide Link to the master sword

[@TheOmegaDragon]

There were 4 spirit masks too Deku, Goron, Zora, and Fierce Diety(one that represent himself). I feel like those represent something in Majora's Mask somehow.

[@leomuricy]

In my opinion the skull kid is the same in Ocarina of Time (the skull kid from lost woods), Majoras Mask and Twilight Princess somehow

[@Tiepobadaae]

I came here to comment this exact thing. Nobody mourns themselves, it makes more sense if he is mourning Navi

[@metroidman97]

I knew someone in High School who religiously believed Link was dead in Majora's Mask, to the point of saying Hyrule Hystoria was non-canon

[@girlwithoutafairy]

Did he say TP wasn't canon too? TP confirmed it as well.

[@ZeldaLover6]

Exactly, if the Hero of Time died as a young boy TP Link biologically would’ve have existed otherwise.

[@maycontainnuts3127]

People worship MatPat too much, especially in those days.

[@mlzurligen]

Don’t lump the grief theory into Link is dead theory. They are separate. At least the first time I heard the grief theory, it had nothing to do with Link dying, but grieving over Navi.

[@creeperchumsworth1219]

Lmao, I know this may sound stupid but I feel like matpat debunks his own theories purposefully sometimes which I guess would make sense for theorists :/

[@eljaminlatour6633]

Don't worry not everyone is right, everyone makes mistakes.

[@raynbutspooky4687]

Yeah. When he makes new vids he says “yeah, I know I already made a theory about this, but that was before we knew this” I was confused why he brought up he has more then one vid about the timeline too

[@spark9189]

@@raynbutspooky4687 he only has two videos about the timeline, and one even has it in a converged timeline just like the goddess of time theory. granted, that theory also has hyrule warriors as canon, which i disagree with, but still

[@Prismark]

Actually Matpat is just bad with theories. Especially when it comes to Zelda.

[@ninjagamer1359]

Matpat's videos are just for entertainment. I didn't know there were so many people who actually took them seriously... do y'all think Mat really believes every video game is canon to Mario, too? Pretty sure he made a video about that

[@NitroIndigo]

Plot twist: Breath of the Wild takes place in the CD-i timeline. =P

[@geschnitztekiste4111]

That's why there's no music most of the time and the protagonist mainly wears blue :P

[@NitroIndigo]

@@geschnitztekiste4111 And voice acting.

[@lorenabuck2423]

It's confirmed by Nintendo

[@destroyerkitty9434]

*Link awakens from the shrine of resurrection* “Gee, it sure is boring around here!”

[@Iveraxi]

@@destroyerkitty9434 I'm so hungry, I could eat an octorok!

[@DudeTheMighty]

As frickin' stupid as the "Link is Dead" theory is, I can see the symbolism that lead to it. A setting can symbolize something without everyone prancing around trying to be a pokemon master, yeah?

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

I always interpreted Majora’s Mask as Link’s acceptance of his dead innocence and acceptance of him being the hero.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

The Timeline is only confusing for someone who doesn't know anything about Creating Parallel Universes by Timetraveling.

[@VariableZero]

Mario Link Zelda Master is especially guilty of this. He’s played all the games, and he still doesn’t understand the timeline.

[@sasukebora]

Deadpool Kaboom agreed! Can’t stand his videos

[@TheSefirosu200x]

Which is ironic, since it's literally infinitely less confusing than one single timeline that just gets rewritten, since multiple timelines means most paradoxes (particularly the Grandfather Paradox) can be avoided!

[@timtetumtetodd]

Can you explain the downfall timeline? I don't understand why/how it exists! Why does Link die in Ocarina of Time and why does that effect the timeline, but not if Link dies in A Link to the Past, Wind Waker or Twilight Princess? I really want to understand it, but I don't! (And please don't attack me I made grammar or spelling mistakes, I am from Germany and I don't have English in school!)

[@skepticaltile]

Timtetumtetodd well I wouldn't say this is simple to understand but I I'll try my best in explaining as best as I can Basically a universe gets created everytime a choice is made This is multiverse theory. This is not true for the Zelda timeline however because if it was there'd be a universe for everytime link chose to drink milk or not. No instead there are only two possibilities for why/how the downfall timeline exists 1) the Zelda timeline only records or acknowledges drastic significant changes to a universe in order to consider it a parallel universe worthy of being recorded. This means only the events of link choosing to be a child at the end of oot, choosing to be an adult, or dying by mistake would be significant enough to create different universes. Or 2) multiple universes do exist but they are just not interesting enough to be recorded in the timeline. Due to parallel universes already existing within the official split timeline it's no stretch to assume that everytime you choose to drink milk, hit a cuckoo, go to bed, etc. In a Zelda game, you create an alternate timeline where you didn't do that. The only difference being that these alternate timelines aren't interesting enough to be in the official one. As for why he dies in ocarina of time, it's because ganon was strong enough to win 33% of the time thus causing the timeline to split into three. By the end of oot ganon has nearly obtained all the power he desired so he must've been a hard enemy for link to fight.

[@jewelboyd3646]

I'm glad you included the "Link is dead in MM" theory; I remember hearing it mentioned on KZbin and I was completely confused. After all, it's confirmed in MM that Link's alive. In Ikana Canyon, if you go to the Spring where Sharp's ghost is, he'll say, "This is no place for one as full of life as you". But it was interesting hearing about those other theories

[@autobotstarscream765]

Link: "I have come to complete my journey to the afterlife." Sharp: "YOU'RE ALIVE, STUPID!" Link: "But MatPat said-" Sharp: "You kids and your MatPat!"

[@ZeldaLover6]

The Link is dead theory was debunked from the start as the original box and manual for the game even says it’s an alternate world. The theory was dumb regardless.

[@jewelboyd3646]

@@ZeldaLover6 Really? I didn't know about the original box and manual saying that. Interesting. How did the theory even take off, then?

[@cyanryann64]

@@autobotstarscream765 lmao

[@paperpager1249]

Jewel Boyd some people don’t read the boxes or cases of games and movies. Happens a lot more I’m sure. Idk when this theory originated from though lol otherwise I’d say it maybe started not long after the remake for the 3ds? If it never mentions it on the case?

[@XaranAlamas]

I've always hated the 'It's all just retellings of the same legend' theory.

[@hikaru9624]

Quality of x theory aside, I like how there are so many theories. To me it shows just how invested the fans are in the world of Hyrule and the fictional characters that inhabit it! Theories have undoubtedly brought people together too due to having a common interest!....for better or worse.

[@zapunknown]

One of my favourite theories is that the rito in botw is evovoled versions of the loftwings

[@lilchristuten7568]

The only issue with that is that loftwings haven't been seen since skyward sword, and the fact that in windwaker Rito are evolved from the Zoras, so if botw follows natural progression, as the creators suggest, then those Rito would also be evolved from Zora.

[@arteifey]

@@lilchristuten7568 The thing is in botw we’ve got Rito & Zoras cohabiting. If you try compare them they look nothing alike (Unlike the rito in WW which looked more like zora birds). Looking at Botw’s Rito they share too many characteristics with Loftwings to ignore.

[@lilchristuten7568]

@@arteifey The Zora keep evolving, in oot they looked like people with fish heads, in TP they looked like fish people, in botw they look like different fish people the dead Zora sage in WW also looked like a different kind of fish people, if the Rito evolved from the Zora it wouldn't be suprising if they also kept evolving.

[@lilchristuten7568]

@DropkicktheDecepticon Well them evolving from the oocca kind of makes sense, though I thought the point of the oocca was that they evolved to be the way they are because of their technological advancements. However Nintendo (or at least one of the people working on the Zelda series) said that BotW is supposed to be a merger of the timelines so far into the future that basically everything that has happened in the other games has happened in BotW's timeline. Though that explanation really is just a cop out.

[@bigcornstarch5378]

The thing with the koroks replacing the kokiri is kind of disappointing

[@MoonJumpMania]

Butterfly anime guy: "Is this a tetraforce rant?"

[@MoonJumpMania]

Nevermind

[@Nukestarmaster]

Why is tetraforce stupid, there is a good amount of evidence for it?

[@MoonJumpMania]

@@Nukestarmaster by evidence you mean Nintendo telling many news sources that it's not real?

[@Nukestarmaster]

@@MoonJumpMania So what? There is evidence in the games, it doesn't need to be endorsed by Nintendo to be a good theory.

[@MoonJumpMania]

@@Nukestarmaster Sure it's a cool theory but it has zero proof and is all basically speculation. As of now, almost every single theory is basically just linking random information to the theory. So no, I don't believe that there is "evidence" in the games. Although @NintendoBlackCrisis 's video on the matter was not bad, probably the closest to "evidence".

[@sagehanson190]

you gotta wonder though, how many citizens of hyrule name their child "link" hoping he'll become the hero? It's probably a pretty common name right?

[@minight1711]

Problem is... link's parents are often dead

[@Shade374]

Darunia named his son Link[Or whatever name you chose, but Link's name is his name], so its plausible.

[@ninjagamer1359]

I mean considering each real Link tends to only be remembered in later games as "the Hero," I don't think the general populace usually seems to be aware of his actual identity, let alone that he reincarnates all the time

[@rachaelgreen1812]

Actually link is a direct descendent of the other links.

[@rachaelgreen1812]

Actually link is a direct descendent of the other links.

[@malic_zarith]

I like to think that most Links are the same person reincarnated. Obviously Wind Waker Link isn't a reincarnation of a guy who went to another timeline, but the child and defeat timeline protagonists could all be reincarnations of the same guy from skyward sword.

[@fghhjk979]

Sorry, but can you explain how ww link is not the hero? Because the king said like it? I mean so how can you explain Demise's curse that effect Link? If an incarnation of Demise live so Hero as well. Yes, 'ww Link is not the hero. He forced to choose himself.' Is sounds good but i think this is not right. And i'm sorry for my english.

[@Y1kers]

@@fghhjk979 The Gods didn't choose Toon Link to be the Hero. He was just a Normal Kid that had to wear the Green Tunic on his birthday and went on a adventure to save his little sister (later went to save The Great Sea/Hyrule). Toon Link also had to collect pieces to get the Triforce of Courage to obtain the Master Sword (don't know if that's how you get the Master Sword since I haven't played WWHD in a long time)

[@ryleydoesthings7300]

@@fghhjk979 if WW Link is the hero then why does he need to collect the triforce pieces and why was there no Link when Ganondorf was released he was just a normal kid who just so happened to be put in a bad situation and then made the gods choose him to be a hero

[@Knightmessenger]

16:28 I would like to see a game take place after Majoras Mask. I was always disappointed we never got an explanation for what happened to the hero after he returned to Hyrule, from Termina.

[@GameOverJesse]

We have a video discussing the cancelled sequel to Majora's Mask

[@SirPonnd]

Finally! Someone else acknowledging how stupid of a notion "tHe ZeLdA gAmEs WeRe NeVeR mEaNt tO gO tOgeAtHeR" is! That's always annoyed me! It's such an arbitrary assumption! THAAANK YOU!

[@GameOverJesse]

Interviews as far back as OoT and WW talk about the timeline. Even before it

[@Knightmessenger]

I think the first 2 games might not have been intended. Somewhere around Link to the Past and definitely before OOT, Nintendo realized they should connect and then must have been like "how are we going to retcon all the stuff we didn't plan on connecting at first?"

[@SirPonnd]

@@Knightmessenger The first two games were definitely meant to go together. Zelda 2 was a direct sequel to Zelda 1. It was as blatantly connected to the first game as Majora's Mask was to Ocarina.

[@Alpha121198]

My personal head canon is that Spirit Tracks Link is a descendant of Aryll while ST Zelda is descended from Link and Tetra. Mostly because I just ship those two so freaking much and I refuse to believe anyone else could have caught the attention of Tetra besides the kid that forced the Gods to recognize him as the Hero of Wind.

[@the_maverickk]

I never knew that the "Literal Legends" theory was a thing... but I've been saying for a long time that the Zelda series should be viewed as a collection of Legends. Like an anthology of myths passed down by the royal family. Hence the naming "The Legend of Zelda". That said I DO NOT AGREE with the idea that even if you view the Zelda series as a collection of Legends, that it means that there isn't supposed to be a timeline, or that it's an excuse to say that every Zelda is in fact the same story being retold. That there was never any connections between the games in the series (or weren't supposed to be.. and I agree the developers have always connected their games to each other). What I've always felt about my version of the theory that The Legend of Zelda series is a collection of Legends... is that as players, when we play a new Zelda game, it's like being told a new story or part of the anthology. It is a form to explain why we don't hear the legends in a particular order. It also explains descrepencies between each individual Legend (game in the series). For example why in some Legends the goddess Hylia is present while in others she isn't. Or why in some games the Spiritual Stones are gems, in others they are pearls, and in others they are referred to as pendents. I know someone will say "well if it is a series of Legends, then how can some sort of book or anthology have knowledge of split timelines". To that I say that there is in fact ways that the differing timelines do have connections. For example the Child Timeline knows about the events of Ocarina Of Time's Adult Timeline activities (for example Link literally travelling back and forth through time, awakening sages in order to defeat and seal Ganondorf in the future). Even though these events never took place in the Child Timeline. It's also why even in the Hero Defeated Timeline, they still know things like the names of the sages. But this also gets nitty gritty. Still I support the idea that the Zelda series should be viewed as a collection of Legends... but that also isn't an excuse to dismiss connections between each one. It just might explain minor discrepancies.

[@memesarekeem]

Let me put those unneeded extra paragraphs into a simple sentence. "I think not that The legend of Zelda series is not a single story being retold, I think it is a collection of fables or stories which all connect to each other."

[@Sydscam]

I very much agree. I think it's all one big connecting story but told through individual anecdotes, which explains game to game discrepancies. :)

[@TheSchnieder6]

Well, it's in the title "The Legend of Zelda". Every game is a part of that legend. The series is the legend. That's also why the defeat of the hero only matters in OoT, because that's what happened(as well as the hero's triumph). In every game except OoT, the hero doesn't die. Everything that happened and will happen in the series has already been recorded in-universe, the player's choices/actions don't effect the story.

[@D_Max]

Idk why everyone has to be so dismissive when they bring GT. Doesn’t make your argument any better. Isn’t it enough to just say, “I disagree with MatPat’s theories.” Why does it always have to be a d*** measuring contest? Like, bruh.

[@We_Have_Dragons]

Thank you.

[@obushi6285]

that is the worst yt channel ever. he doesn't make game theories, he makes game lies that only kids with no real experience, believel

[@We_Have_Dragons]

Obushi I mean... you can keep thinking that. Despise his fnaf theories being highly successful and actually getting noticed my the creator himself, confirming his theory to be true. ... but you can keep believing in your delusion. :)

[@ajaxbriggs7425]

I agree with thar

[@tomo8940]

IS SaNS unDErTalE AcTuALy nESs?

[@troloinkto]

i also hate the "termina is an ilusion" theory, the hyrule historia tells you it was a world created by majora, but a real world/universe with everything on it being real, the fact is that as link leaves termina, this places ceases to exist, that's why skull kid is back to hyrule

[@rachaelgreen1812]

I believe the "it was all a dream" theory. It's explained really well and is pretty plausible.

[@mark_speranzart]

I actually really like the literal legend theory. I understand it's not true, but for me, it's what I like to consider when connecting each game. I like the idea that each game is an iteration on the same story, and as for the direct sequels, well, they could still just be that since they mostly feature the same Link. They're just extensions of those respective legends.

[@ayyylmao5668]

I like your theories and content, but damn you sound smug and arrogant in this vid. I’ll def sub just for the theories though

[@luasiaimas3566]

????

[@harshal1153]

I agree

[@cosmicwarrior_]

thank god someone said how cringey the "link is dead" theory is. I had no idea Game Theory even made a video about it but when I first caught wind of that "theory" all I could think was: "this sounds like it was made up by some 12 year old trying to be edgy".

[@ArliQuinn]

I enjoy all LoZ theories, even weak ones. I don’t find any of them “laughable” or “stupid”. I admire the dedication fans have for the series. They’re theories and they’re meant to be fun to discuss. If a particular theory is proven wrong by the creators, that’s acceptable. But it doesn’t make theories like the “Link is Dead” theory any less fun and chilling to imagine. Honestly, crazy theories like that breathe so much life into the over-logical LoZ community

[@mason9914]

exactly someone could tell me zelda is actually link and link is ganon and id tell them its a fun theory. theory purism is so exhausting

[@Kwizii]

Same, I like all theories, even those that have little proof, it's just fun to think about :)

[@angiee1603]

My favorite theory about Zelda is that Doom Guy from the Doom series is a future version of Link. I know it can't be true but it's fun to think about.

[@silverkyre]

People hate the link is dead theory because people treated it as fact. And it still happens with people who haven't even played the game. If the fandom of that game channel hadn't spread it far and across the internet as gospel and instead just talked about like a theory. People would probably just think it was interesting.

[@lilchristuten7568]

A theory is a stupid theory when evidence from the game itself or even the creators disprove it and people still decide it has validity. Definition of stupid (Entry 1 of 2) 1a: slow of mind : OBTUSE b: given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner c: lacking intelligence or reason : BRUTISH 2: dulled in feeling or sensation : TORPID 3: marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : SENSELESSa stupid decision 4a: lacking interest or point Notice the "lack of intelligent/reason thinking" if you know that what you think to be true isn't true and yet you still believe it to be true then you are being stupid.

[@MACo852]

We're not playing the game corectly? Since when was there a way not to play games corectly

[@onijester56]

Well, in most Mario games you can always just set the controller down and go get a bowl of ice cream instead. I would venture that, insofar as playing the game, this isn't correctly playing the game.

[@Genya2008]

Easy explained in Majoras Mask you have to collect all masks and if you do that you will see that there are many different emotions in each region and with that this point of the Link is dead Theory is debunked even at the very beginning. But if you only rushed without paying attention then you would only see the emotions said in the theory and that is not how it was planned the players play the game so yes then you played it wrong. Zelda is in biggest part an adventure and as such you should search and look on every possible location and talk to every character.

[@MACo852]

@@Genya2008 I'm not talking about the link is dead theory specifically I'm just saying that games are made for whoever wants to play them however they want to play them

[@Genya2008]

@@MACo852 That way you´re comment makes even less sense because it was only said that Majoras Mask was played wrong and not every game.

[@MACo852]

@@Genya2008 all I said was that there isn't a way to play games correctly

[@miyaserenheart4487]

I only feel that the 5 stages of grief in Majora's Mask applies because Link is grieving Navi. Despite how most people feel about her, Link did love her.

[@robertkovarna8294]

BOTW can't take place before Skyward sword since that showed us how the Master Sword was made, along with Link gathering the pieces of the Triforce to make it whole.

[@MessyJoeHesse]

The dead link theory just wont die! Irony lol

[@GameOverJesse]

Yeah. It’s sad. New fans come and fall into the trap

[@MessyJoeHesse]

@@GameOverJesse It's up to us veterans to make sure The Legend of Zelda is told properly.

[@GodofFreedom]

I have to cringe at the purist mentality of “make sure it’s told properly”.

[@MessyJoeHesse]

@@GodofFreedom purists mentality? Dude it's the canon of a story line, not a ideological movement or the telling of historic events that have been framed by the winning side. It's The Legend of Zelda, and Majora's Mask is e sequel to Ocarina of Time. Canon in sequels or prequels is important when understanding the events unfolding. If you want to confuse kids with zelda conspiracy when the creators have confirmed events then that's on you buddy.

[@They_are_Arthur]

@@GodofFreedom That's not cringe, it's just us telling facts and making sure misinformation isn't common knowledge. For example, some people actually think that Baby Yoda in The Mandalorian is a prequel to the rest of Star Wars.

[@autisticsquirrel8243]

Oof, did you just insult my boi matpat? You're brave. I respect that. My allegiances for theories are now yours.

[@lem0ncrunch]

I like the thought that Botw is an inevitable outcome of all timelines Now I just hope they pull an Oot and make it so that in each 3 timelines has its own outcome

[@nerobiblios4086]

Matt has always stated at the end of his videos "It's just a theory", he's always said that, since he knows he isn't perfect and can't make a perfect theory, nor can he claim anything is "fact". Only Nintendo can say what is or isn't fact, and even then they could just retcon some details. I know you said you love theories, but it seems like you dislike his particularly? You're ok with other peoples wild and crazy theories, but Matt's you seem to dislike above everything else. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[@RobotGuy405]

not to mention, while he's shitting on MatPat's theory's he continues to plug his own. Kinda scummy honestly Edit: Holy shit the video is filled with plugs after watching even more, shilling for their podcast, other videos and series, like jesus it gets so annoying

[@Shade374]

I understand what you're saying, my only issue is in a few videos, like the one where he questions if the moon would kill everyone, he says something along the lines of, "There's also the huge probability of him being dead" and other little jabs like that, especially when the probability it's zero . Other than that, theories are great, just don't try to push them as fact.

[@lilchristuten7568]

@@Shade374 Mattpat uses the word definitive a lot when presenting his theories which means done or reached decisively and with authority, in essence saying that his theories are true despite other evidence and even the creators own words.

[@Shade374]

@@lilchristuten7568 Yeah, I used to really like GT, but he's gotten a bit smug over the years. I think the Link is Dead theory was the beginning of my disinterest. MM is my absolute favorite game, so I got annoyed with the video because he was leaving out and twisting facts. If he died in MM, there goes the child timeline. For someone who's done multiple videos on the timeline, you'd think he'd know that.

[@lexidonovan9972]

Nero Biblios, I agree. I also noticed when he was complaining that Mat Pats theory’s about the Zelda timeline were wrong, but then immediately went on to say that it is a good thing if theory’s can be debunked and they are just theory’s not facts. Another thing I noticed was that he openly admitted that Mat Pat said himself that this MM theory was wrong, but said it in such a smug and arrogant way that it comes of as just more mean spirited complaining.

[@TornanPrince]

Fantastic video! You always go so in depth and provide several facts in support of your point! 👍 The idea of TP and WW Link being the same person is cool!

[@sarahplays1130]

I absolutely loved this video. Thank you for proving why the 5 stages of grief theory is so horrible.

[@silversaiyan3783]

To be fair Nintendo has moved games around in the time line which hasn't help with the confusion. Looking at you Oracle games. I know I go with the legend theory but more in the way with games referencing older games or changes in the maps.

[@ZeldaLover6]

To me, Link’s Awakening will always take place after Oracle of Ages. The ending of OoA and the beginning of LA makes no sense otherwise. I think Zelda Encyclopedia made a goof. Wouldn’t be the first time. Some images aren’t in the correct spots in the Hyrule Historia, like the fire and spirit medallions. And a picture from FSA is upside down.

[@silversaiyan3783]

@@ZeldaLover6 I want to say they came out and said they changed it to show that that Link didn't just drawn after Link's awakening, but don't quote me on that.

[@ZeldaLover6]

Why would he drown? He can paddle on the wooden logs back to Hyrule. Although it would definitely take longer.

[@silversaiyan3783]

@@ZeldaLover6 oh there are some fan theories on it. I don't personally subscribe to them for several reasons. I also personally like the original order like you.

[@ZeldaLover6]

That’s good.

[@liveactionlink8736]

Great video and I agree with you on everything here except for your view on the 4 stages of grief in Majora's Mask. It's actually 5 stages of grief though (the 4 areas around Termina and Clock Town). I agree that Link being dead is pretty ridiculous and doesn't make sense but while I believe all 5 areas aren't focused solely on 1 emotion, I do strongly believe they are each very focused on and reflective of the 5 stages of grief... whether on purpose or not

[@angiee1603]

I think what we need to remember in all this is that these are theories. MatPat and others don't generally claim that the conclusions they come to are facts. Even knowing the MM theory is wrong doesn't make it any less intriguing of an idea. There is enjoyment to be had in thought exercises. I absolutely love the theory that Link and Doom Guy are the same even though I know it can't be true. It's still fun to think about. It's Link in the far future still fighting evil, but somehow without Zelda. In a quest to be right, let's not forget to have fun and don't be too harsh on other Zelda fans.

[@TheAbsol7448]

From what I've heard, MatPat gets very pissy with people factually proving his theories wrong.

[@angiee1603]

@@TheAbsol7448 I've watched him for a while now and I've never seen that. He's taken time in his videos recently to reiterate that what he posts are only theories and just for fun. He's also joked himself about reading too much into random game design choices. One of his early videos focused on why Star Fox characters had their legs removed and replaced with prosthetics. At the end of the video he invalidated his whole theory by hinting that it was probably just design choice to make the characters look cool or something. I don't remember exactly what he said. I've also seen him graciously admit to his own mistakes on more than one occasion.

[@Leon.aka.Devil.s.D]

The 4 stages of grief has nothing to do with someone being dead or not for your information. Just saying 🙂 Try seeing the stages of grief as a whole not individually from each other, throughout the game in each region. There are so many characters in the game and every single one has his/her own sad story. By the end of the game everyone accepts their situation, and they all act individually of affects of their surroundings or other persons. You also got the stages of grief during depression for example. By acceptance being the step between from staying depressed and the step of looking forward and begin to live life again. Also don't forget that Link is a silent protagonist and we all know that silent protagonists have disorders. And the loss of his friend Navi caused him to go through his own stages of grief and at the end seeing him looking forward to the future. At the end of the day it's just a theory but a theory that shouldn't be looked at with laughter because it's a serious topic.

[@BlueSky-ve9md]

Theory I hate the most.....🤔🤔🤔..... Zelda and link pulling a Leia and Luke story yet making out at the end of LOZ 2 adventures of link.

[@actualmadscientist]

"Zelda games shouldn't be connected because they're each set too far apart from each other" Me: * Laughs in Wild Arms*

[@gastonalcazar130]

"You are not playing it correctly" Shut up, a set way to do anything does not exist.

[@JoordyDreaming]

The link is dead in mm was one of the first theories in gaming which got me intrested in theories in the first place. By now its been debunked so much. But i definitely dont hate it. It opened my eyes to theories as a whole and made me want to replay the game again. But i understand the hate and well why its wrong. It an old theory and i was definitly not as focused on what the games tell me as i am today. Still i felt like i needed to express my feelings towards this theory cus it opened such a door for me !

[@saraross8396]

Nintendo's official stance is that Breath of the Wild belongs wherever you, the player, think it does. If I believe it is the Child Timeline, someone else believes the Downfall Timeline, and you believe in a convergence, then all three of us are "correct". I forget who it was, but someone likened the Leviathan Hunters to the timeline theorists. As you recall, each had a different theory as to how the leviathans died out, and each was provided with evidence to support their theory.

[@mrfalchion8505]

That would be NintendoBlackCrisis

[@obushi6285]

He has a few different official stances

[@maycontainnuts3127]

The amount of different Zelda theorists out there feels like we're all in different sects of Christianity.

[@jackcoleman9451]

Skyward sword obviously is the start because the timeline is shown to be at the beginning

[@kaijenson7949]

Jesse: MatPat's theories contradict eachother and that's bad! Also Jesse: I like it when my theories get debunked 'cause that's good!

[@Martin-ob9cw]

Yeah but it's not the same because he use "facts" so his logic is perfect

[@autobotstarscream765]

Also also Jesse: I accept criticism and different ideas, MatPat could learn from that!

[@timtetumtetodd]

@@Martin-ob9cw The fact "it is confirmed" is not very good since Nintendo is changing the Timeline and other things very often!

[@nerobiblios4086]

@@timtetumtetodd Very true, Nintendo has retconned many "facts" before. The Zelda timeline is always up for revision, it's never truly finished/finalized.

[@Martin-ob9cw]

@@timtetumtetodd that was the point of my comment, to show the stupidity of this argument. So i agree with you the """facts""" he use are not proving anything

[@CharmeIeon]

skyward sword was the beginning of the time line it was a origin

[@ShadowSora8491]

I do kinda see the Downfall Timeline as kind of a "what if" scenario, but if Breath of the Wild is supposed to be all the timelines converging into one, then it would make sense that there was an actual scenario in which the Hero of Time failed, leading to the Imprisoning War taking place, with Zelda and the Six Sages left to seal Ganon within the Evil Realm, as the Knights of Hyrule defended them, until the day that a new hero could rise, in the form of one of the Knights of Hyrule's descendants.

[@orionruddell7552]

Matpat you mean the guy trying to put science in world of magic and gods?

[@Martin-ob9cw]

Yes his prime goal is to teach people some science through the use of theories.

[@fieratheproud]

Honestly, the only way I can see the "Link is dead in Majora's Mask" theory work is if he did grow up and only took on the form of his child self after death before coming to terms with his death, but it still doesn't really make sense to me. I mean, why exactly would that happen? By the time he's died he either has found Navi, who he was seeking at the beginning of MM, or he's come to terms with the fact he'll never find her. And the Hero's Shade, confirmed to be this specific Link, has a different regret. He's not roaming the world trying to find a long lost friend, he was waiting for someone worthy to teach his lost techniques to (which he must have learned only after the events of Majora's Mask since they weren't part of his moveset in either OoT or MM). This someone ended up being his very own descendant, in bith blood and Spirit.

[@kyojurorengoku2378]

Game over Jesse your awesome

[@GameOverJesse]

YOU’RE AWESOME!

[@kyojurorengoku2378]

@@GameOverJesse I said it because your the best youtuber

[@sebastiendaigle7214]

There is no timeline, its some bullshit Nintendo fed to fans. Of course there will be similaritylies between games, some games have Easter eggs to previous ones. Its just like saying Final Fantasy have a timeline. Just let it go, zelda are stand alone games except for a few ones. You'll enjoy the series way more by stopping shoving timelines down our throats. Even Miyamoto and Aonuma said that the timeline thing was kind of bs how dense can you get?

[@Phanto5692]

I think you give Aonuma too much credit.

[@majintoguro4952]

Only a hundred years??? Nah you better be talking more like a few thousand

[@MACo852]

I mean It seems obvious to me that timeline was never meant to exist as it is now I think it was supposed to little chunks, somethink like: oh these 5 games are connected and these 3 are connected But bot an overall timeline that connects them all

[@jessegartung294]

I want to say that the reason why every link is related to one another is because of what Demise said in Skyward sword.

[@lilchristuten7568]

That is exactly the issue. He said that an incarnation of my hatred will follow the goddess Hylia and the spirit of the hero, which means that it is the same exact Link from skyward sword being reincarnated over and over again just like Zelda and Ganon.

[@swamperttheseismicsoaker1518]

Honestly, you said it yourself, they're theories, so why are you hating on them so much (I mean you could be a little nicer when some of your viewers are loyalists of matpat)

[@TheSpencermacdougall]

botw is at the end of the timeline? no! botw 2 is (or maybe not,who knows)

[@JPARnum1]

Thank you sir. I'm gonna start saying that botw 2 comes before botw then skyward sword comes after that.

[@Element.Nullify]

Matpat trying to pass Hyrule warriors as Canon was funny.

[@rf3162]

Mario baddies in Link to the Past and Link's Awakening. L is real stone in Ocaraina of Time telling you how to get to the Ghost House in Mario 64. A Multiverse is a very real possibility that spans different timelines and worlds. It is a huge staple of a good number of Zelda games.

[@emmarossa1288]

Matpat dont know shiiiiiiiiiit!

[@mistermr6145]

I do love game theory but some of the zelda theories are kinda crap

[@Gloomdrake]

He stole the theory from Brian David Gilbert, who at least had the good sense to make it all a joke.

[@Element.Nullify]

Matpat is kinda toxic on the Zelda community.

[@diosoth]

Game Theory being full of crap and deliberately ignoring official sources to promote his fanfic? Typical.

[@Chris-rv3xi]

This is why you are the best Zelda youtuber ever

[@Sheylenna]

It's funny, I think the only reason anyone thinks that there is no timeline for Zelda is because I, at least, remember a time when Nintendo was reluctant to give the series a timeline. That was before Hyrule Historia came out, I remember a lot of people crying for a timeline and a lot of, what seemed official statements that said there was none just a lot of somewhat interconnected stories set in the same "world", with similar people, that may have all been "the same" ie Zelda was always Zelda but just a different incarnation of her, same with Link, and Ganon was the same Ganon physically as the OOT Ganon. And then when the Historia came out there being a lot of complaining about how the timeline sucked.. So. I at least remember a time when Nintendo was adamant that there was no timeline, though don't remember anything about the Zelda stories all being the same but not. Though this not giving a timeline might have been because of spoilers not because they did not have one in mind. But because Nintendo did not want to spoil the timeline and/or future games they "encouraged" people to believe there was none. That is just what I remember, I could be wrong and was just hearing hersey but *shrugs*

[@angiee1603]

I remember that. I don't think they had a timeline before OOT. If you look at the designs of the earlier games, it suggests they didn't have a long-term plan for the games. Link's shields had crosses on them and their are churches in Zelda 2. Those things don't exist in the other games.

[@PopCultureFan_]

Yeah, nintendo said loz doesnt have a timeline but they only printed out hyrule hystoria becuase all the fans were complaining l and it waa to epease them, but originally it had no timeline and i pretty much consider loz as that so knowing that, i consider loz just not having a timeline and i mean no wonder some of it doesnt even make sense lol if it original has no timeline. They were not supposed to connect. I said this so many times in the youtube comments but no one listened. Fans want things to connect so bad.

[@tkayube]

The only "official" statement I've seen that was anything like denying a timeline was one from Dan Owsen (translator from NOA) in 2003 where he said Miyamoto didn't know what the timeline was. He gave his own opinion which could be interpreted as "there's no timeline", but could also just mean that timeline placement and connections between games aren't as high of a priority as the individual games' gameplay and story. But it was only a few weeks after that that Miyamoto started mentioning the existence of an official timeline document, and he had been mentioning a timeline prior to that (though it differed from what would eventually become the official timeline). There might have just been a disconnect between the American and Japanese branches of Nintendo on the timeline issue for a while.

[@Sheylenna]

@@tkayube Problem is I remember that in the early 90s and late 80s before Ocarina of Time came out people debating when Link to the Past fit in with the first two, then Links Awakening came out and they were trying to place that.... but Nintendo was insisting that there was no placement for them there was no timeline they were just a bunch of games set in a similar setting with characters of the same name except for the first 2 Adventure of Link was always a direct sequel to Legend of Zelda never a dispute of that. I also remember Nintendo maintaining that there was no timeline as late as Wind Waker....I also want to say Twilight Princess, but on those two I could be wrong. But I know there were TWT statements from Nintendo for at least til the Oracle games, cause people were trying to figure out where they were in the timeline, I remember crazy fan timelines.

[@tkayube]

@@Sheylenna Well, I've looked on a couple different websites for quotes regarding the timeline and haven't seen anything like that. Though, the quotes do only go back to OOT's release so maybe there was something different before then. Again though, it's possible any quotes you're thinking of came from NOA, which didn't always have the best grasp of the timeline itself (for instance in 2001 they put up a timeline on the official American Zelda website that claimed there was only one Link).

[@DaisyDream_pers]

just this one tiny piece doesn't work: "Like, it's literally in the name: Zelda 2" ...? you can't use the number system to say the game stories are linked. Look at the Final Fantasy games, they are named with sequential numbers, but no way are they all taking place in the same world at different times. (personally, I think the timeline is unnecessary)

[@fieratheproud]

Thing is tho, looking at the stories Zelda 2 *is* a direct sequel to the OG game. It has the same Link, just a few years later, discovering he is the bearer of the Triforce of Courage, which seems to have been forgotten by time by the time he came along (after all, the first game only has Power and Wisdom). Basically, a few years after the defeat of Ganon at the hands of Link, he discovers a strange symbol on his hand and goes show it to Impa, who in turn shows him Zelda, but not the same Zelda as the one he saved before. This one is under some sort of spell of Eternal slumber and Link needs to break it for her to wake up. Meanwhile the enemies are trying to kill Link to use his blood in a ritual to bring Ganon back to life (the game over screen reads "return of Ganon" for a reason). This is just off the top of my head, but pretty sure I got the basics at least close.

[@DaisyDream_pers]

@@fieratheproud sure, I didn't intend to invalidate the entire idea. Just that particular argument 'it's got a 2 in the name so it must be the same world' isn't the best

[@Marcello5201]

Gannon didn't even exist skyward sword so I just debunked the botw comes before skyward sword theroy

[@ZeldaLover6]

Also the fact that SS is the origin of the Master Sword...

[@thethrashyone]

I think you're attacking something of a straw man argument for number 4. I can't for the life of me think of anyone who has ever argued that _none_ of the games are related to one another, and most people can easily accept that these games come in "eras" (i.e. The Zelda 1+2 era, the LttP+LA era, the Oracles era, the OoT+MM era, etc.). Just because you can prove that there are _individual games_ that are directly related to one another does NOT disprove the idea that each of these accepted _eras_ can be unrelated re-tellings of the same basic Legend. Kind of deflates your waffling during the intro about the nature of facts vs. theories when you yourself claim to have disproven a theory without _actually_ having done so, don't you think? Also want to point out your bit about how people who have played the games can allegedly see the connection laid out in the official "timeline"...bit of a weasel word, innit? I mean, _I've_ played these games, and it kind of seems to me that there's no real solidly defined connection aside from haphazard references to the Hero of Time in the eras that came _after_ OoT+MM. So yeah, calling BS on that and will plainly state that Nintendo could have released their "timeline" in just about _any_ order and people like you would've just eaten it up on the basis of "well Nintendy said tho". In closing I just want to clarify that I honestly have no real emotional attachment to any of these theories, and even agree with you that some of them are just downright bad, but your standards of evidence frankly leave a lot to be desired and for someone who low-key threw shade at GT, I hate to inform you that you haven't exactly got much room to talk.

[@tkayube]

The Literal Legend theory *can't* be proved or disproved by using only the plots of the games, since the theory itself is basically stating that most or all of the game's plots aren't what "really" happened. The only way you can determine whether or not it's true is by going by what the authors intended.

[@sjfrench8034]

I really liked the literal legend theory, I wish it could be real. I never really believed it because of Wind Waker’s reference to Ocarina Of Time.

[@rianesabadass]

Ok but majora's mask is still alot more fun if you pretend that link is on a decent through purgatory

[@TheSorrel]

Wait theres only 100 years between OoT and TWW? Doesn't Aonuma know how short of a timespan that is?

[@lpfan4491]

he probably does not considering they talk about generations upon generations and not something like tetras grandmother was the zelda that was sent to the surface

[@ZeldaLover6]

I think Spirit Tracks is one the only games that actually takes place 100 years after another LoZ game. (Wind Waker & Phantom Hourglass.) With ALBW being another one.

[@daxernsthenobody]

I like to think that BotW takes place in a Timeline where the Loftwings evolved into the Rito instead of the Zora

[@rottencandyco3625]

I don’t know who this guy is but the way he talks about matpat’s theories kinda makes me feel like this guy doesn’t know what a theory is. They’re not facts as you kept saying they are. They’re theories. Thoughts that are possibilities and can change perspective the more you think about it and the more evidence is given but that doesn’t make them official.

[@opadrip]

Well Matpat always presents his theories as if they were fact, and his fans always take his theories as fact. Had to deal with a guy that actually thought Mario was evil because of his dumb shit.

[@lulu_TheWitchBoy]

Kitty Nekoyami Matpats fans literally take it as facts and when you debunked his theories you just a hater

[@rottencandyco3625]

Then people have to realize that they’re not facts. He even says at the ends of his videos that they’re just theories

[@teamprimarina]

Even though I know the five areas in majoria’s mask don’t represents the five stages of grief I still use it to remember them

[@LoinkLoink]

I don't want to sound like a brat or anything, but it feels like every time there's a list for debunking zelda theories video, you guys always seem to include the Link is dead theory. At this point it feels like it's just there to pad out an extra theory. Not saying that's what it is, but if you've already disproved it, could you please not add it on to future videos? Other than that, great video!

[@TheGeekApprentice]

Link understandable, but I think the reason we continue to hammer it out is because not everyone watches every video. The fact that you know we mention it a lot is cool cause that tells us you watch a lot! ☺️ The other reason is linked to the first: matpat is pretty dang well known as are a lot of his theories. So, his “link is dead” theory has pervaded the inter webs heavily and thus who knows...maybe the people who still think it’s true will eventually stumble upon one of our many vids debunking it. ☺️😝 Hope that makes sense lol! Thanks for commenting and watching!! 😊

[@hikaru9624]

This! ⬆

[@bleachissweet1]

Also the game theorist is my favorite channel. YAY MATH!!!

[@TheGeekApprentice]

@@bleachissweet1 He's got a lot of personality for sure! I just stopped enjoying him once I realized most of his theories were bogus and easily debunked. But that's just my personal preference. :)

[@Tigerfire75]

You don't accept any evidence that debunks your theory. You bash anyone else's theories

[@PeterPutze]

I'm honestly real tired of the timeline theories. From all the stuff I really love about Game Theories in general, the timeline theories contains the worst things. I am so glad Nintendo released an official clarification about the timelines. But never the less it still gets discussed.

[@gustavopaz5453]

For me, Majora's Mask is not meant to be an allegory of death or cynicism, but an allegory of hope. Instead of the regions representing a form of grief, they may represent a form of love that is needed. There's a book by C.S. Lewis called The Four Loves, which explains the different ways mankind expresses love: Phillia (friendship), Agape (family bond), Eros (romance) and Storge (unconditional love; also interpreted as spiritual bond). Phillia: In Clock Town, the majority of characters are only minding their business, both those who "deny" that the moon will fall, and those who know it will; at the start of the game, it's difficult for Deku Link to find information about the Skull Kid because almost everybody is acting with prejudice towards him ("No Scrubs! No Entry!", say the Bombers; "this isn't a place for kids!", say the shopkeepers and the sword trainer; and so on). But he magaes to help the Great Fairy, for which she grants him a new ability, and gets to earn the trust of the Bombers after he beats them in their own game, and from there things get better in his quest to find and confront the Skull Kid. Agape: In Woodfall, the man who runs the tourist center laments that his son (Tingle) is still acting like a child, but loves him regardless. Koume is worried abouthis sister Kotake because she hasn't returned from the Mystery Woods yet. The Deku King is angry because his daughter is missing, and the Butler badly misses his son. Link is rewarded by the tourist center's man by giving a picture of his son, Koume gives you a free botle with a potion so you can help Kotake, who in turn gives you a free tourism ride after you help her. You manage to rescue the King's daughter and reunite her with her father. And the Butler rewards you after completing his racing challenge, while also commending you for your skills and also telling you that you reminded him of his son. Storge: Darmani only wanted one thing: To save his people. He braved into the harsh blizzards of Snowhead to find a way to restore the place's weather and make spring come at last. But the blizzard ends up killing him and, without anyone else determined to improve the situation, he asks Link to take his persona and complete the job. After Goron Link succeeds, he's commended by an entire population of Gorons who thank him for the deeds. Compared to the other forms of love, Storge is unique in that it can be born out of the other three, hence why Lewis considered it the most important. And it's likely that Darmani was motivated to feel determined in his mission after seeing the Goron chief's son crying disconsolately after his father went missing for too long (and mind you, he didn't know that the chief was literally frozen and trapped inside a snowball...) Eros: The Indigo-Go's was in a predicament. Lulu lost her voice because her eggs were stolen. Mikau, who only had eyes for her, was determined to rescue them no matter what it took. He perished, but lived for long enough to entrust Link the favor to complete the job. Later, while looking for the eggs, Link gets to reunite a couple of seahorses who were separated by the murky waters of the sea, and it's made clear that the seahorses were lovers once they're reunited. When the eggs are reunited and Great Bay Temple is conquered, Lulu and Mikau (well, Zora Link, but she doesn't know) finally have their rehearsal as planned. One cool thing about this part of the game is that, as Lewis warned when talking about the sinful side of sexual desire, we also get to see certain characters who lust over others. The fisherman wants a picture of a female Gerudo for.... a physics homework, I guess. And one of the male Zoras is peeking around Lulu's room. Yet another Zora will pay you money if you give her a picture of her face. ???: So.... what would Ikana represent? Well, think about it: What's the only way for a living being to become unable to love, or even hate? That's right, once the person dies. Ikana is devoid of ALL forms of love because there's almost no one with heartbeats or vital signs around: Just a humble, lonely man who is perpetually scared of skeletal monsters (Dampé), two ghost siblings who hate each other, and one of them imprisoned the other (Flat and Sharp), and a daughter whose only thing she can do is to hide her father away from the Gibdos (Pamela). Also, if you're doing the Kafei/Anju sidequest, eventually Kafei will be here to retrieve the Sun's Mask, but he's unable to do it alone. Among the dead, Captain Keeta feels like defending his people and followers, without realizing that the war between them and the royalty of Ikana has come and gone; relatedly, Igos du Ikana is only interested in potruding any unwelcome visitor with "true darkness". Only with Link's intervention, can all of these charactersfind a much-needed peace. After all, for one to love or be loved, they have to face and defeat their inner demons, for Ikana has since long ago lost the memory of how those feelings are like ("those feelings have vanished from our hearts from long ago", says the King after you defeat him). I know my theory may be as crackpot as almost any other, but I prefer to view the game that way instead of the boring "lol no, Link is dead" crap some people want to believe just to pretend the game is cooler that way. I never felt Majora's Mask was about showing gratuitous cynicism, but instead about relying on faith, love and friendship to overcome the biggest dangers and misfortunes.

[@rachaelgreen1812]

Nice theory 👍🏻

[@PurpleColonel]

The main area people take issues with the timeline is with the downfall branch. There isnt actually an ending on Ocarina that shows this happening and just about no other game has a branching storyline when you get a "game over" like in Zelda. I personally dont have an issue with the split but I see why others do.

[@riahlexington]

The stages of grief kinda works but link is not dead.

[@blainekelly7374]

I love game theory but his Zelda videos are pretty bad.

[@elementalheroneos2757]

I have a question for the theorists that theory that breath of the wild was set before skyward sword on when the master sword is in the breath of the wild

[@r_e_e_e_c_h]

Oh my. Gameover Jesse's voice is so relaxing. I find myself falling asleep while watching his vids. (In a good way though :)

[@GameOverJesse]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@GameOverJesse]

I actually just went back and listened. I have other videos where I think I sound more relaxing, but thank you so much!

[@KatieT97]

I think a recent theory that’s really dumb is people saying BOTW 2 will be a prequel. Like even now a year after the teaser there are still recent theories about how it’s a prequel when really just common sense will disprove it. The main point being Zelda’s shorter hair. Link was assigned to be her guard around the same time as he was chosen as the Hylian champion and Zelda’s hair was long. As many have pointed out cutting hair in Japanese culture signifies a big change, and there isn’t one in the events prior to the calamity that would cause Zelda to cut her hair. However, losing the person you love for 100 years, losing your father and friends forever, having your kingdom destroyed and unlocking the power you needed only at the last minute when 95% of those things were already gone and having to hold off the calamity yourself for 100 years are definitely things that could prompt a symbolic haircut. Also if Ganondorf is defeated at the end of the second game and if it is a prequel there would be no purpose for fighting the calamity in the first game. So I really don’t see how anyone can stand on the theory that BOTW 2 is a prequel.