Is This Melee's Most Hated Matchup?

[@thekevlar127]

This video is way more dope than the title lead me to expect

[@Mason_Smash]

I scrolled passed like 5 times... glad I clicked eventually?

[@MultiAsdasad]

man i didnt want to watch it but it surprised me too

[@ricfair7549]

sheik: execution test your opponent falcon: execution test yourself

[@ssbmgosu4990]

What a beautiful comment

[@MultiAsdasad]

sheik wins: yeah you played well falcon wins: you freakin killed it top players ofc

[@angryii5411]

Real ones know; Scar was the one who told Tope to take his shirt off. He told the story on an old Scar and Toph Show. :) Edit - it was on the hugs episode where Scar takes off his shirt, around 2:07:40

[@heyitsmort7744]

Good shit for finding the time stamp and all!!

[@MrPkletsplay]

What I love about this is that it shows how toph really hears scar taking credit for things by taking them in one ear and then out the other.

[@Valtaire951]

I am so happy this isn’t about fox-marth given ibdw’s character crisis and leffen always feeling it was 6-4.

[@liamfrench5198]

Yessss me too the fox mains are trippin

[@liamfrench5198]

But it is a hard matchup to be fair

[@Materialist39]

(Disclaimer I just started the video but am excited to watch) So glad you’re discussing this in detail. I remember the Laudandus scar and toph show episode from way back and it’s still one of my favorites. Him completely refuting what was then “common knowledge” on falcons disadvantages in the MU, even if he was being a bit hyperbolic like all pro character discussions are, it definitely changed my perspective. The bit about how falcon can literally c-stick chain any aerials together had me rolling at the time, especially scar being incredulous about it lmao

[@tagNickname55]

laudandus is hilarious. His episode on scar and toph show is one of my all time favorites.

[@peytonwinstead3412]

Toph, your content is soooooo great. You've got the analysis of a pro, the charisma level of a GOAT-level commentator and the star power of a much bigger stream. I hope the community gives you the support you deserve as you put your all into content creation.

[@gregoryrothemich6844]

Conversations between guys who’ve been a part scene for so long are always so fun to listen to. Great stuff.

[@ghost112945]

Please do more of these for other interesting matchups, this was an amazing video

[@BL3446]

Dude. The preemptive johns are so real. We had players in our scene that were addicted to them. Before the set would even start: "This matchup is so bad," "I'm playing so poorly today." It's actually top tier and puts your opponent in a lose-lose situation. If they win, it's because of those excuses, and if they lose, they lost despite those excuses. lol. It's like a pregame mind game lol.

[@lincoln_three]

What an amazing video, can't believe I missed this until now. I wish Toph would re-do this video a year later but this time with more mid-level/highish level players instead. We heard about the history and how noobs play and we heard about the top level, but god as a mid-to-kinda high level player do I have some thoughts on this MU, it's easily my least favorite as a sheik

[@grizzykuma5246]

This is exactly the kind of melee content I've been craving recently. Keep grinding Toph, I'm here for it.

[@thrusteavis]

I think fundamentally sheik is a character whose goal is to take the wind out of the opponents sails, and Falcon is the character that most needs wind. When hes stopped in his tracks he cant as easily gain momentum back like spacies

[@FTW360Gaming]

I love the interviews you had in this

[@itsyaboi1245]

Should’ve put ft. Bobby Scar in the title get a million views

[@SingularMechanicalCitrusFruit]

The title to game the algorithm would be "Bobby Scar Talks about Bobby Scar for 40 minutes ft. Bobby Scar (and toph)"

[@thefreindlywolf]

toph is the greatest conversational support to ever do it

[@Nikkerman]

Falcon Sheik can be summed up like this, Falcon has to play so much more awkward than in any other matchup especially neutral because Nair is almost nonexistent (seriously sucks against her) and frankly most aerials at low %, while Sheik if she's at a deficit, can lowkey have a really really hard time approaching and knee can just invalidate her sometimes.

[@_archimedes]

Good video toph. This style of panel discussion works well, you could stretch this concept out for like 20 different MU vids.

[@jakesmith9438]

This was an amazing idea toph - excited to see more

[@9awner992]

Give this a name, make it Toph talks or something, and have a biweekly show like this where you intro a topic and have top players weigh in. I'd watch every single episode dude!

[@TheSpaceOpera]

In a way, Golden Guardians answered your prayers by giving Toph and PP the weekly Radio Melee show!

[@FritzyBeat]

In reguards to needing more commentary that represents the floaties? Can we please please please please get Wobbles on more commentary in the future? That man is such a great commentator and offers some really really great perspectives that are removed from the fastfaller outlook on life, lol. I also think anyone who has a really good Mario secondary is good at understanding the game of Melee as a whole mechanically, without being at least partially blinded by the "oh I'm a floatie..." or "oh I'm a fastfaller... so I look at the game like this" point of view.

[@brenq3852]

I love Toph's hair in this video

[@SkeletonSSBM]

Bowser Vs. Sheik is the most one sided matchup in the game. Sheik can chaingrab for 8 years

[@NessKwik0]

Idk

[@OfficialJabe]

toph on the content grind POG! Gotta love it. Guys make sure to upvote and comment to get the algo spinning to save melee!

[@kylecruz9043]

We should have a Maury or Jerry Springer skit at Summit about matchups

[@jeffjones488]

This is great

[@MrNapkino]

I feel zero remorse tech chasing falcon to death every stock

[@gooey9885]

Best vid yet. Toph grinding out content creation and it shows.

[@KuhEssen]

Jorge from VA is a sheik main. Also known for his german fitness trainer role in a Zain skit. Also Junebug is a sheik main.

[@lowkeypoke3510]

I love this longer form content. Plz more

[@matthewzakrzewski1797]

Looking back, its crazy how bad people thought this matchup was. 5 or 6 years ago, it was thought to be 70:30, falcon vs falco levels of terrible for falcon.

[@QuentinoGiangrande]

Toph got a Laphroaig 10 year bottle in the back? Pretty based

[@berekexer8158]

You know you've been watching melee for a while when toph talks about the origin of the matchup and you say "darkrain vs m2k?" and look up.

[@charlesw7397]

Yo Toph, do you know if Darkrain plays Slippi? I ran into a gray falcon named Darkrain and he was absolutely insane so it leads me to believe it's the real Darkrain but I don't know if he even plays Melee casually anymore lol

[@grizzykuma5246]

I played a Blue, then switched to White, Falcon named M2K. Idk if it was him, the falcon was incredibly mediocre. I'm aware that M2K plays every character at a some what top level,but I can't remember him ever playing Falcon, even in pools. Anyways, this weird "M2K" Falcon BODIED my own Sheik and Pichu, and fuck you, I can dual main whoever I want, so, yeah. The tag specifically was "m2k".

[@KittSpiken]

Look how delicately faceroll pokes at the Falcon demagogues; even here he trembles before their sway over the demos. Fear not their influence, throw the gauntlet. Cry war!

[@fliperotchy]

In October 2008, Mew2king did the same thing to my Falcon as he would do to Darkrain's Falcon the following January at Genesis 1. I can honestly say it was the most frustrating match I ever played, and it was a FRIENDLY. This man picks FD and just tech chased me for 4 stocks. I still have nightmares.

[@PeppySweetheart]

I NEED footage of Tope taking off his shirt

[@im4everskilled]

I've played Falcon since 2014-ish. I feel that it's a very even matchup that really could lean a little bit in favor of either one.

[@CogzillaOfDojima]

Laudandus is the coolest dude. Had like an hour conversation with him about mindset a couple years back

[@random1234da]

Love the video idea Toph!

[@970404x]

spark in the chat lol

[@leeleeisgay]

getting snubbed after toph said he'd have him on, crazy

[@rubiconcrossing4480]

I peeped that too

[@KBrisk80]

Congratulations on the GG sponsorship! Awesome video per the usual

[@ariesomega2487]

Good video man It is like a podcast and it is so funny

[@highlin9270]

Is there a clip of Tope taking his shirt off? That shit sounds hilarious.

[@bolshevikY2K]

I watched an SSBM-T video about the Falcon-Shiek matchup a while back, and here's what I took from it (as a Falcon player): 1: If Shiek dash attacks at you, shorthop knee to punish it 2: If Shiek runs and grabs at you, shorthop knee to punish it 3: Knee in neutral is a viable strategy 4: If Shiek nairs at you, just shield (or CC at low percents) 5: MAKE SHIEK APPROACH YOU. This means move around the platforms and stuff. (although approaching Shiek is also okay to keep them on their toes) The matchup still sucks for Falcon, and Shiek does have like a million free combos that I hate, but it's possible to make Shiek really scared of you.

[@uaqnJ]

this was so random atm but so good

[@kinolangley8937]

in a world of netplay falcons, we must all take off our metaphorical tope shirts for the modern melee meta

[@BL3446]

Laudandus is right on it. Falcon is actually a super lame character. He is only hype because people (correctly) assume he is the underdog in most top tier matchups. His gameplay in a vacuum is very meh.

[@ethangilworth7891]

LUL

[@Hugo_Prolovski]

Thank you. His combos are so lame.

[@fmakofmako]

Does anyone know how to beat double jab on falcon?

[@lanexyz]

Me listening to faceroll waiting for him to say it’s an even matchup

[@tubesism]

Tope was in my pool at my first major. He perfectly tech chase 0-death’d me 8 times.

[@w33aboojones]

What ever happened to Gravy? I actually talked to him a few times in college before I even knew what competitive melee even was.

[@ssbmgosu4990]

He sadly stopped playing. He is still behind the scenes watching here and there but he had no fun playing anymore.

[@Velyren]

@@ssbmgosu4990 Damn, that's a huge bummer. He did so much for the Falcon community. I would love to see a return someday.

[@ssbmgosu4990]

@@Velyren say thanks to hax. If hax wouldnt have fucked him over and steal his idea for the box he would probably still be playing melee.

[@ImArchiie]

@@ssbmgosu4990 From what I've seen from other comments back then its because hes always considered the "lame" falcon. A lot of people would legit harrass him saying that n0ne and s2j are better and he kinda had enough of that environment.

[@ssbmgosu4990]

@@ImArchiie the box thing was def the biggest issue. Don't really think he cared what ppl thought about his playstyle.

[@theshytenda]

Toph's shelf in the back is looking like Anthony Fantano's shelf. 👀

[@brycematthew3115]

I feel like we never really hammered out what "most hated" should be. My vote for that is falco peach. Nobody enjoys playing falco peach. Peach gets camped. Neutral is miserable for peach, you're basically not allowed to hit buttons in a bunch of different circumstances. Falco gets hit and he dies. Falco makes one mistake and he gets clipped. The play patterns of falco peach are awful and most peaches/most falcos I talk to hate playing it. (Disclaimer, i'm a peach main)

[@ThePratyush72]

this is just good content

[@artemis-kinkyboikirby5539]

I as a Sheik hate playing against Falcon, not because of the character but because all the schmucks in the Australian Smash Discord newbie channel only play Falcon, I get next to no practice against any other character and they all play like the same turbo virgin Falcon n0ne wannabe

[@theflintabletc]

I think the match up is hated by both players because of how polarizing it looks. Strengths and weaknesses of both character are on full display here. Both have the possibly to 0-Death or put the opponent off stage and exploit their terrible recovery.

[@owenmcgovern8140]

Amazing video!

[@ln8496]

That darn crouch cancel culture

[@lorenzo689]

Ikr!!?!?11!

[@oliver-shi]

faceroll seems like a great dude

[@CaptainFlufification]

Nice video! I'm glad you can share your own experiences and history of melee. I recommend getting a pop filter even a cheap one. Your p's be poppin

[@RTB1400]

Windscreen or a "sock" filter might be a better option if Toph wants to keep his face visible.

[@grizzykuma5246]

It's killing me not knowing wtf you two are talking about

[@CaptainFlufification]

@@RTB1400 there are pop filters that are made to be unobtrusive

[@RTB1400]

Very true. Given that the topic is "p's be poppin" and the subtopic of visually unobtrusive plosive catchers, I don't think the difference in splurging $24+ for a PL05 style pop filter (not an $8 Amazon Basics looking generic) versus $6> for a windscreen would likely only be noticed by audio engineers and pedantic folks (if at all). If he were looking to record crisp vocals for an EP or a serious voice over AND wanted something to not take up face/camera space, sure, spend more for an unobtrusive, high-grade pop filter. Ultimately, it'll come down to Toph's preferences and budget decisions.

[@RTB1400]

@@grizzykuma5246 A pair of searches online will bring you up to speed. Hopefully this gets you started: *Pop filter -* funny looking circle or half moon gizmos that are placed between a mic and an audio source; usually have some kind of nylon or metal mesh to catch stop excess air from going directly into the mic (think "b's" and "p's" when speaking English for example) *Wind Screen -* anything that looks like a foam ball or sock on a mic; same ideas, slightly different (ex. wind screen is better at stopping excess air from all directions, pop filter is better with a direct audio source and seems to "muffle" voice recordings less) *(Again, likely only audio engineers and pedantic folks would notice a difference)*

[@fmakofmako]

How does Toph honestly believe that Scar invented the phrase "arms race"? He is the first person to use that in a sentence related to melee?

[@jakesmith9438]

I don’t think toph is saying that he’s the first one to use that phrase - it’s probably just a part of scar’s vocabulary and it sticks out because you don’t really hear people use that phrase often.

[@rkraccoons]

Falcon shiek is bad, but I raise you Peach Puff For real though, these deep dives into the history of matchups are super super cool

[@theinktician]

To answer your question: No. Sheik vs Falcon & Anyone Below is the moat hated matchup

[@sonnytuwun7704]

Doesn’t Tafokints play Sheik?

[@shanepage8041]

toph: it is a dank and also good video

[@gamerzss]

Not trying to be rude in any way, but who is Zeodyne?

[@DudeThatComments]

Zeodyne is his twitter handle, his tag is Zeo on the smash wiki. SoCal Falcon main, #88 on the 2019 MPGR, hasn't entered any online events according to the same wiki but has taken set(s?) off Spark

[@joeschmoe4376]

Great vid

[@jeffjones488]

Heres another one

[@linkluver_izn]

random as fuck but god i love your laugh

[@drakeUW]

Banger vid

[@cameronmckendrick4155]

Wonderful content

[@Snowcen]

Love you Toph

[@lainroseheart]

commenting cuz this video needs a boost

[@milesh2004]

I think background music would be a good touch to the stream and videos kinda like anime style music that Ludwig plays. Maybe a music stream?

[@AdmiralA]

toph with the BRAIN HUICE

[@a8531]

Maybe there's more Falcons seeing success right now BECAUSE of the lack of Sheiks. Plup, Swedish Delight, and M2K aren't competing right now so maybe Sheiks will dominate if they come back. Also Laudandus talking about how he thinks Captain Falcon players are bad right in front of Scar gave me the same vibe as Leffen tweeting about how bad Peach players are and Armada responding with intense rage That's the only time I've ever seen Leffen get rattled in his Twitter kingdom lmaooo

[@Hugo_Prolovski]

Spark? Faceroll? Ben? Jmook?

[@awogbob]

This MU made me give up on maining falcon

[@XenonAgenT01]

sheik is brainless no matter what the matchup is. its an easy character to learn that requires little tech to win. which is why borp won.

[@DavidSchleigh]

jmook should commentate!

[@malkavian6275]

as someone who loves shiek, m2k's shiek is the lamest thing in existence

[@plight6218]

Reno is a commentator that mains Sheik :(

[@SmileGayming]

I'll never forget s2j losing to tafo at SSS

[@nicememe8608]

Hey Toph, I really fucking liked your fucking video, lots of good shit in this fucking compact segment. As a side note- Have you noticed the rise in the prevalence of “fucking” and “shit” as modifiers in your speech? I know you’ve got a rich vocabulary, so I imagine you’d appreciate someone pointing it out to you. I don’t mention this so that you reduce the amount of profanity you use. Rather, so that you can increase the quality of your speech and clarity of ideas.

[@Hologramburrito]

dude your room is literally leffen's but red

[@tsoprano4891]

How bout link falco

[@dorohime7001]

Tafo is a sheik commentator

[@thegoodgeneral]

TOPH, YOU ARE TOO CLOSE TO THE MICROPHONE AND TOO LOUD. Even with a limiter/compressor, it sounds distorted... + you are louder than your guests.

[@rewpbertt]

this video is based dude for real, keep it up ❤️🥰

[@chandleryoung9852]

Love you toph

[@chandleryoung9852]

I don’t get why melee isn’t the biggest esport, I feel like it definitely has the best storylines n highest skill ceiling

[@gatorssbm]

@@chandleryoung9852 Nintendo supressing brand deals and few tournaments is part of it but even then it wont be close to MOBAs.

[@mpdrago1730]

@@chandleryoung9852 because kid would rather play ultimate I used to be like that until melee got rollback

[@ThevenimX]

Naw Ganon shiek

[@MA-ym8pl]

better sub goal pls i know more people will sub on twitch if it’s interesting ❤️

[@100mangroper]

sheik falcon = even but hard advantage to sheik for being comparatively way easier to play

[@gabag00lgangsta]

Falcon mains press 1

[@jeffjones488]

LOL

[@FsmashJohn]

It’s cause sheik is a lame character to play

[@paxtonkocka3803]

Laudandis is so funny omg