Toranaga Reveals His Fake Surrender to Mariko and Hiromatsu Had to Die For It Shogun Episode 8

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[@Kamala-4-President]

Translating Mariko to modern's English: Sir. I am so f*cking ready.

[@big_oh_tea]

Locked TF in

[@mjscorn7943]

No, not really.

[@victorpradha9946]

The ONLY thing that drives Toranaga to accept his son's death, Hiromatsu's death, Mariko's death is that there is a great good in his pursuit. He has to believe it, otherwise it would be pure naked ambition for the sake of power ONLY. And there is no beauty or purpose in THAT! "Waiting, the pine tree never withers in Winter." This is Toranaga saying that his "mission" is still forming, and is ultimately more benign though initially like the pine tree that pierces the ground, stretches out its roots, dares to rise into the sky, eventually it provides shade and holds the soil together and provides wood for homes. Toranaga believes in his cause and that his cause is ultimately the better outcome for Japan. "If I could use words, like scattering flowers and falling leaves, what a bonfire MY poems would make." -- This is Mariko saying that her vengeance still burns and right now all her words and actions have been formless like scattering flowers and falling leaves but with time they will dry and become the kindling that will burn with her rage in vengeance! Toranaga isn't "using" Mariko, but allowing her to fulfill her intent, and exploit that to bring about his intentions. You can see that he honors Mariko by permitting her plan to save Anjin's life, and in fact, facilitating it!

[@Ganjil100]

Beautifully put. ❤

[@jd5179]

Toronaga: Execute order 66! Mariko: 😤

[@hans-christianbauer5947]

Man, Mariko sure has the hots for the Grim Reaper.

[@anthonymorris4211]

Mariko is the hots. That girl is something else. ❤

[@NgocTran-nf5hr]

Beautifully moving! Superb acting!❤️👍❤️👍❤️👍🥹🥹🥹

[@JohnTaylor-w6d]

Hiromatsu doesn't kill himself in the novel. (I haven't been watching the series, just a few YT clips.)

[@KonohasYeIlowFlash]

It was one of the best moments in the series so far. It shows Hiromatsu’s complete devotion to Toranaga who can barely keep it together. The bubbling of emotion in Toranaga speaks volumes. Hiromatsu’s suicide also works in convincing Osaka of Toranaga’s surrender and ferrets out any allies who are not totally committed.

[@SirLuciferVampiro]

Yep. They made a few changes but the changes they made were waaaay better than what the book had originally offered....Take Hiromatsu as an example. In the book, he was a strong character in the beginning and then slowly grew old and his ideas becomes outdated. Also in the book, some nameless general committed seppuku in protest to Toranaga's surrender.....In my opinion, way less effective than what the show did by having Hiromatsu committing seppuku in protest. This made it so much more meaningful....

[@emmaw7853]

@@SirLuciferVampiro it's the only part where i cried

[@MoniLein-yy2ue]

@@SirLuciferVampiro This whole show is a glorification of suicide culture and many viewers are clearly eating it up.

[@stefanm9265]

In the books Toranaga confided to hiromatsu he never planned to go to Osaka because Toranaga needed Hiromatsu to keep his other generals in line . If Sundara decided to take Toranagas position, Toranaga would not be able to stop it. That's why it was stupid Hiromatsu died , Toranaga needed him

[@michaeldenny6851]

When she looks into the camera, I half expected her to pull her face off and reveal Arya Stark about to go deep shadow beast mode.

[@coachChot8966]

matiko's incoming death

[@knightr1548]

Ma Kiku incoming death

[@N1k4_Gr1v]

He abused the white flag

[@MoniLein-yy2ue]

The translation is odd. One can concede defeat, not victory.