Tormach PCNC 440 - Unboxing and Setup

[@paulwilliamson5985]

I took your advice and got leveling feet from McMaster-Carr, and I'm glad I did. Thanks! One extra bit of advice for folks: the leveling feet I bought had a 102mm long threaded section, which is longer than the clearance on the inside of the stand's leg. That means the minimum height from the floor to the bottom of the leg is about 2 inches. Short guys like me have to stand on tiptoe to reach the spindle cover latch, and the extra 1.5 inches doesn't help. Especially since we're still waiting for Tormach to release the power drawbar kit! I wish I had shortened those leveling feet before installing them.

[@johnsaunders4227]

Woot! AWESOME, Robert! Welcome to the family :)

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+John Saunders Thanks John! I've got a long way to go.

[@JohnGrimsmo]

+Robert Cowan (Rowen Hobbies) Ditto that, welcome buddy!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+JohnGrimsmo Thanks (other) John! You've made me really want to make a knife...

[@JohnGrimsmo]

+Robert Cowan (Rowen Hobbies) before long everyone gets converted to being a knifemaker ;-). KZbin viewers would love to see you tackle it on the 440.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+JohnGrimsmo Someday... I have a few other projects I need to get to first :-)

[@ZzTriplett]

Definitely looking forward to seeing some more videos about this machine!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Zach Triplett There will be many more! Hopefully by next week I'll have a video of the controller and it running. Stay tuned!

[@diymachining1934]

Robert, Congrats on the 440! I look forward to seeing you throw some chips with it. Perhaps a Shear Hog... Keep us posted on your Kickstarter project. Tim

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+DIY Machining Thanks! Yeah, I'm thinking of picking up a shear hog along with a couple other things. It looks really neat.

[@shibbleswentworth]

Robert thanks for the shank recommendation, just did that to hoist our new 440 and I'm sure you saved me some time! Cheers

[@dammachines]

Regarding lifting the mill, Tormach sells a lifting kit for the 1100 and 770 that includes a lifting bar that allows the mill to be level while lifted to help get it on the stand easier and I suppose safer. I assume that they will come out with a smaller version for the 440 - or maybe the current one will work with it: www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=31446

[@ericwolf5874]

Great walk through on the set-up and I appreciate the tips. I'm looking forward to more videos.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Eric Wolf Thank you very much! More videos to come!

[@endamurphy5272]

Very well presented... looking forward to your future videos.

[@SamFugarino]

Good to see you again!

[@HunterNugent1]

y ou freakin rule. I'm ordering one in the next month...you really helped me to know what to expect.

[@MohamedMostafa-we6jo]

production quality is supreme! thanks.

[@craigsmachineshop2040]

Great video Robert! Very professional presentation.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Craig's Machine Shop Thank you!

[@TAWPTool]

Great video Robert! I had planned to do the same type of video when I buy my own 440, now I don't have to. Looking forward to watching videos on your grogress!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+TAWPTool I don't recommend doing the video, it takes FOREVER! I couldn't find my microphone, I needed to charge my camera batteries, etc... All of this stopped me from doing what I wanted, which was just ripping into the boxes and getting the mill running. Sometimes it's a bummer taking it slow and documenting everything!

[@TAWPTool]

+Robert Cowan (Rowen Hobbies) I agree. I shoot and edit video for our small shooting group. The whole process takes ten times longer than the subject you're making the video about. However, this one small video will help hundreds (maybe thousands) of people for years to come. Your virtual help is appreciated by more people than you will ever know. Unfortunately some people, no matter how much they enjoy the video, won't take a second to click the Thumbs Up icon or leave a thank you note. Thank you for taking the time to create these videos!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+TAWPTool You're very welcome :-) I plan on doing several of these videos and a few focused strictly on hobby/beginner CNC. When I started out in CNC, it was hard to find the basic resources to get started. There's more out there, but you still have to piece it all together and it's not clearly spelled out.

[@RoboCNCnl]

Very nice ! great vid, and congrats on the Tormach

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+RoboCNC Frees- & Graveerwerk Thank you!

[@TimeWasted8675309]

Congratulations!! I've watched you show a lot of products in the past.. but this is by far the biggest (and heaviest). Really looking forward to some more actions videos of the 440; I've been on the fence between 440/770 but I think for smaller hobby work, a 440 leave a little $ leftover for a Tormach lathe :) Cheers!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Warren Bailey Ha! Worlds colliding! Heck, I'M looking forward to more videos, that means I can play with the 440 more! I think the 440 works well because of the higher spindle speed, the smaller footprint, and of course extra cash for tooling and accessories.

[@TimeWasted8675309]

+Robert Cowan (Rowen Hobbies) Well that was the push I needed, so I ordered my 440 today. I was on the fence based on additional horsepower of the 770, but your reminder about the 10,000 rpm spindle was the deciding factor on pulling the trigger on a 440. Thanks for the push Rob! Looking forward to more of your videos since it probably will be April before the 440 gets delivered here to me in Vancouver, Canada.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Warren Bailey Awesome, congrats! Tell them Robert sent ya ;-)

[@k5at]

Robert, Great video. the 440 sure looks sweet.

[@bkoholliston]

Nice video! In the last bit of the video you can really see that the mill is seriously not level--like 5 degress out of level. You need to fix that!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+bkoholliston Ha, good catch. It's actually level, it's just the camera playing tricks on you. But I'll double-check it before I start using it.

[@ArrowComponents]

Awesome, Rob!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Arrow Electronics Thank you! Love the new videos you guys are putting out.

[@ArrowComponents]

Thanks man! :)

[@PatientZeroBalisong]

Man, I'm so sorry to ask another question, but do you have a rough size of the 4 blocks?

[@paulwilliamson5985]

Tormach tells me that the current enclosure design includes a larger notch in the same place you notched your right side panel (around 10:30 in the video). With the larger notch, the vertical right side support no longer sits on top of the bottom lip of the right side panel. Here's the photo I sent to Tormach about the issue, with red lines added by Tormach showing their notch: www.mustbeart.com/random/tormach_notch.jpg and here is a drawing they sent me of how it fits together now: www.mustbeart.com/random/tormach_drawing.jpg Oddly, the enclosure that shipped to me on May 18 was one of the early design, like yours.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Interesting. Good to know it is being changed for future models.

[@skcolb]

Great video! Looking forward to seeing you cut metal.

[@sarahriopelle8134]

Question, have you ever thought of having wheels on the bottom of the stand? I have limited space to set up the PCNC 440. I know often times bigger machines tend to be an island where people can move around them, but do not have the space to do that. Would you suggest wheels or some other way to get to the back of the machine if ever needed?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

You could use wheels if you wanted. You would just need casters capable of the weight of the machine, but that's not too hard. You can also use a pallet jack to move the machine around, but that's something else you would need to store :-) If I needed to move the machine around, I would use either lockable casters or make some sort of mechanism that engages and disengages wheels, so it can be moved around (similar to a mobile base used for table saws and such).

[@marcusfry2580]

I used these on my 440 and they're perfect: www.keystonecastors.co.uk/50mm-footmaster-hand-wheel-operation-kgd-60sblack

[@tdg911]

Great review, clear, concise and no intrusive license free music. What is your overall thoughts about the 440?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Overall? It's not the best machine out there, and more of a hobby machine than it is an industrial machine. That being said, if you're looking for a small mill and don't want to hassle with a used Haas (and all the complexities that go along with it), it's the best thing on the market right now. It's hard to find another machine that can do the same things, and is as easy and cheap to operate. The only real downside, the travels are pretty small. I would love more Y travel, but it is a relatively small machine overall though.

[@tdg911]

@@RobertCowanDIY thanks so much for the info I’m looking at the 770MX right now so I’ll need to compare to the haas mini. I am a beginner but so not like buying something twice

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@tdg911 There's a LOT of discussion between the two. If you're just a hobbyist, I like the Tormach because it's cheap to run. If I'm actually 'making' something, I outsource. I use the Tormach and my own machines for prototyping and testing things. Once I'm ready for a final, I find that it's easier to just outsource, I don't have to worry about my time, the tooling costs, and everything else that goes into running a production part. I'm not a business, I'm just a guy making stuff at home. If I ran a business, I'd probably get a Haas, or just keep outsourcing. It's not worth my time to stand at a machine.

[@eformance]

I didn't realize they lacked a power drawbar until you opened up the head. Boy howdy, that's gonna get tiresome really quick. I'd be inclined to adapt a bridgeport power drawbar kit for the meantime, I see they are supposed to have one available at some point.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+eformance Yeah, they will be coming out with one soon. For the base price of $5k, there's no way it would include a power draw-bar. On the PathPilot interface there is a button for G30, so you can more easily do tool changes.

[@douglasdarby8584]

I watched this video several times as I just took delivery of my Tormach PCNC440 this week. The only thing that should be revised is that they now come with very nice large feet much like the ones that I bought off of Amazon at the recommendation in this video. So if you are getting a 440 with the stand, you do NOT need to order better feet.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I've heard this, that's good news!

[@qzwqsy]

Can the 440 use a treadmill to cut threads?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yep! I've done it a few times in titanium

[@JesseHughson]

I've been thinking a lot about the 440 lately, but it's a huge investment for me. For someone on a budget, do you think it's still worthwhile to convert an x2 or pm30? Can you recommend resources on those conversions?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Jesse Hughson This is a fantastic question. Only you can answer this, but I can help. I've converted a PM30, and RF something, and an X2. I know what's involved in all cases. It comes down to how much time you have, or how much time you want to devote to the machine itself. I've converted 3 machines and I can tell you, as a hobbyist working on the weekend, it will take around 6 months. There's the mechanical side (adding ball-screws, oil system, bearings, motor mounts) and then the electrical (motor drivers, controller, power supply, etc). It takes a lot of time. If you order a kit, it can take less time, but those can be pricey. Or you can build your own, but you will need a mill to do it :-) I used an X2 to convert my PM30. A lot of people end up just buying the kits. So if you buy a PM30 (~$1k), buy the mechanical kit (~$1-2k) and the electronics (~$1k), you are pretty close to the base price of the 440 ($5k). It's a smaller machine than the PM30, but so far, it looks to be a lot more capable, other than travel. It's really your call. I kinda wish I had just bought a Tormach a couple years ago. I spend the majority of my time building stuff FOR the mill rather than using it for actual projects. You could do G0704 and convert it for around $3k. It won't be as capable in general as the 440, but it would be cheaper. One thing I tell people about CNC is that everything else adds up. Once you start getting into tooling, a vise, clamping kit, measuring tools, etc, you can easily add on another couple thousand. So look at EVERYTHING you need. If $5k is already a stretch for your budget, you might not be able to get the right tooling. It might be better to spend $3k and have the extra money for tooling and extras. In the end, this is a pretty pricey hobby if you're gonna do it right and get enjoyment out of it. If you have any more questions, feel free to reply or contact me directly.

[@SELG88]

lol, the sparkfun guy. looking dead serious as always

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Hah, I ensure you, I am not dead serious.

[@Steve-uy9lj]

Nice video Robert, hey did you used to do the new product posts for sparkfun?

[@Steve-uy9lj]

Never mind, Great to see you doing new things, whats your interest in CNC?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Steve Pilon Yep, that's me! I've always been a little interested in CNC. I mean, it's just cool! I built my first CNC nearly 10 years ago, then got out of it and just recently got back into the hobby. I like the ability to create parts that I've designed. I see it as next-level DIY :-) 3D printing is cool, but I just don't like the accuracy and the overall quality of the parts. It's amazing for prototyping, but I don't tend to like it much for final products.

[@jeffd5182]

Looking forward to the full review. :)

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Jeff D I'm not sure if I'll ever do a full formal review, but I'll certainly make comments and observations as I use it. Stay tuned.

[@jeffd5182]

That works. I'm in the market for an end mill (not necessarily CNC) and lathe. Love to know your thoughts, maybe do a short follow up video after a few months of use? Pro/con kinda thing? :)

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Jeff D Actually, that sounds like a good idea.

[@jeffd5182]

If it happens, looking forward to it! I'm a few months out from purchasing due to a pending cross-country move, so I have lots of window shopping in my immediate future. ;)

[@jodyolivent8481]

Great video. How long did it take you to get the stand and enclosure assembled?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Jody Olivent Well, I did this all in my unheated shop when it was about 5 degrees outside. If it had been warmer, it would have been less time ;-) The stand took around an hour or two (if you exclude filming) and the enclosure was about the same. If I had help and didn't have to document anything, I think you could do the stand and enclosure in a few hours (with a break in the middle to raise the mill up on the stand).

[@jodyolivent8481]

That's not as long as I feared. Thanks and enjoy the new mill.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Jody Olivent Your mileage may vary ;-) It really wasn't bad at all. The enclosure took a bit longer actually. If you have your tools handy and know the process (by watching either my video or the one from NYCCNC, it helps a lot to get an idea of how it all goes together.

[@eformance]

Did they seriously ship the machine with the spindle sitting on a wood block? There should be a steel bracket that bolts the head down to the table, so the spindle doesn't have anything touching it during transit.

[@DUCKS2525]

Great Video! Thanks!

[@AleksandrMotsjonov]

Any hint on how do you return this investment? =) (purely for inspiration)

[@ericwolf5874]

Looks like the 440 deluxe with the stand is running $10,495.

[@AleksandrMotsjonov]

Robert Cowan​ oh, right. That's a KZbin. I forgot about whole sponsorship business. Congrats then. (And I just realized, looks like I skipped first minute of a video, where you state about this =) Eric Wolf​ yeah. I was thinking to ask this, but then checked out the price.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Aleksandr Motsjonov I added a link in the description. If you have a product that would sell (kickstarter...) they can be paid back pretty quickly. Machine shops can charge quite a bit. My goal for 2016 is to try and come up with something to put on kickstarter.

[@AleksandrMotsjonov]

+Robert Cowan (Rowen Hobbies) Good luck with that. This will make good video series. We are looking forward to it.

[@jaredr2374]

What happened to the PM CNC?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Jared R It's sitting to the right of the Tormach, getting lonely :-(

[@jaredr2374]

+Robert Cowan (Rowen Hobbies) HA! The reason I ask is I was looking at the PM & G0704 to CNC them. Wondering if there was a reason you ditched it for the Tormach?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Jared R Well, opportunity knocked... Honestly, I've spend the past 2 years doing CNC conversions and not really making parts on my CNC... I still have a list of stuff left to do on the PM30 and I got it well over a year ago. A lot of people ask me this same question. My answer is always the same. If you want building CNC machines to be your hobby, go with a G0704 or similar. If you have another hobby that requires a CNC (and you can afford a Tormach), buy a Tormach, no question. You WILL spend a lot of time tweaking your DIY machine and you will find that the savings isn't all THAT much by making your own. If you compare apples to apples (all the features like MESA card, build quality, oiling system, etc), you'll find that the cost savings in building your own isn't all that much. Beyond just the money side of things, the Tormach is a much better and more capable machine.

[@eformance]

Lol, they called it the 440 because it's 440lbs gross. I wonder if the 1100 is the same?

[@polo000123]

how much you pay for it ?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Check Tormach's site, the base unit is around $5k, but they can get up to around $10k when you add all the accessories.

[@johncooper4637]

I don't know what the price was in 2015 but in 2021 the premium package starts at $11,300! Too rich for me.

[@johnjohn-ed9qt]

You learned a life lesson: NEVER lift with the hook directly. ALWAYS use a shackle. I hope you didn't learn the other lesson: with a threaded shackle bolt, snug it, don't wrench it, or you may find it is impossible to free. There are a number of reasons for this rule aside from hook fit, including the extra freedom to swivel and the difficulty of unhooking when in a different position than when hooking up. Much more practical to unthread the shackle. In fact, most forged eyes (the ONLY type that should be used for lifting) won't accept a hook of even much smaller rating than the eye. They are sized for the shackle bolt.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+john john good to know.

[@Jake-2011-]

Are all tormach made in China?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

+Zhang Jake Yes. The machines are. However, they ship to Tormach in the US and are inspected before shipping to customers. It's not like others where you're the first person to touch it after it comes off the 'assembly line'. Tormach makes sure it's made to their specs before you get it.

[@weiwang9622]

This thing is made in China??

[@VLAHECO]

Cool. Well, How can I be sponsored by Tormach? :) I can work very hard in making videos too :) I am Mechanical Engineer :):D

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Study hard and eat your vegetables.

[@VLAHECO]

Robert Cowan hahaha. Mr. Robert, what CNC mill do you have before this 440? I am looking for one small cnc mill. 440 is awesome but more than 6000 dollar I do not have them now.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Before the Tormach I had a PM-30MVL that I converted to CNC with the help of an X2 that I converted to CNC :-) You can certainly build your own mill and save some money over the Tormach, but you will spend a lot of your time actually building the CNC instead of using it, which is the trade-off.

[@VLAHECO]

Robert Cowan yeap..you are right. Well I need to save some money this year

[@AudioJunkie79]

The stand and the enclosure on this machine is weak sauce. The stand plate is not strong enough for the mill and bends really easy. It should have been a piece of 1/8" plate or 1/4" plate steel. Mine bent very easily. The enclosure is super flimsy. Just bought one used and at the used price it was worth it. Buying this brand new I would be highly disappointed in the build quality of the stand and the enclosure. I hope the 770 and 1100 have better stand and enclosure build quality.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I wonder if they have changed it since I got it. I found it to be pretty sturdy overall and the top plate was actually quite thick. But then again, this video is 7 years old!

[@AudioJunkie79]

@@RobertCowanDIY Mine is from 2016. The base plate the mill sits on is .100 thick. They should have at least added support width wise as mine is seriously bent over the doors. The chip tray is decent but the enclosure is pretty flimsy. They didn't finish the sheetmetal well and everything leaks. They should have welded the corner seems so there isn't a hole for coolant to escape. I like the product but I think for the brand new price now it is a little steep for what you get. Quality to cost ratio isn't there. I hope the 770 and 1100 are better.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@AudioJunkie79The 770 and 1100 are definitely better. And yes, the whole enclosure needs to be welded, or at least come with a tube of caulk!

[@Arthurlabs1]

It is a total piece of shit

[@TheTruth1sPower]

Made in china.....

[@RobertCowanDIY]

...posted on an iphone.

[@TheTruth1sPower]

@@RobertCowanDIY I use Android lol.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@TheTruth1sPowerMy point being, almost everything is made in China.

[@TheTruth1sPower]

@@RobertCowanDIY I was up in the air about buying a Chinese one or a US made one. Now I'm more confused lol

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@TheTruth1sPower What US brands are you looking at? I'm not aware of any mill that's US-made that's even remotely in the same price class.