Toronto is Officially Implementing Leading Through Arrow Intervals!!!!!

Toronto is officially implementing leading through arrow intervals!!
Now drivers who aren't turning, no longer have to wait a few extra seconds, while still giving pedestrians a head start to turning traffic!!
This is better for traffic flow, and safe for pedestrians! Through traffic can now reinforce the right of way against cross traffic turning right on red, or pedestrians trying to cross on red! It's safer for cyclists, because they finally get to reinforce the right of way against turning traffic! It's just more efficient for public transit service and traffic flow!!
I want to thank the City of Toronto for doing this, as I have been advocating for leading through intervals to be used for years! Hopefully hundreds of more to come!

[@Dantoob1]

I like to think that your consistent advocacy on this issue made a material difference, Jackson. Victory!

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

Thank you!! It definitely feels like a victory! And an achievement/accomplishment!

[@WestCoastTrafficSignals]

This is so awesome! Your advocacy did pay off! 🙂

[@GrnArrow092]

I really don't get the point of a thru arrow before the green ball. It seems pretty redundant.

[@Petru.S]

It’s to allow pedestrians a period to enter first so drivers yield. It’s like a LPI but it doesn’t delay through traffic. It also ensures drivers don’t cut in front of through traffic when they turn

[@TheTrafficTech]

Wow! That’s amazing!

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

Yeah! So excited!

[@TheTrafficTech]

@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 I need to push it here!

[@nathburg2003]

Sad thing is Montreal has had this set up for many years now. Wait to see if Toronto drivers can adapt to it. Would also be nice if they were a bit more logical about where the pedestrian leading intervals have been set up. Suffered with several around town at T intersections where the main street has no turn movement but still has to wait for a green, eg. Bathurst at Ava Rd or Weston at Dennis Av.

[@j-bird1778]

I definitely prefer this over simply holding the light red for a few moments. Never really made sense to block through traffic that doesn't conflict with pedestrians.

[@rgc1961]

How do cars turn right? Do they have to sit and wait, while blocking the right lane?

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

Anyone that wants to turn right or left has to wait for the green ball. It's still better than making all lanes wait at a red light with an LPI. Plus oncoming traffic gets to reinforce the right of way against anyone turning left that could try to jump ahead.

[@rgc1961]

That's a very confusing answer...

[@UsernameIncoming]

turning vehicles still have to wait during the straight through arrow.

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

@@UsernameIncoming Yes. At this intersection, most people don't turn here.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

In the time you were there did you see even a single car wait until the arrow ended before starting to turn?

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

I was there for about 20 minutes, and nobody ever wanted to turn before the through arrow became the green ball. The closest I saw, was someone who was turning reaching the stop line 0.5 seconds after the through arrow became the green ball. Since right turns are allowed on red and there are no dedicated turn lanes, the first vehicle almost always goes straight when the light turns green. There are very few people turning right and almost everyone goes straight.

[@troyjollimore4100]

This…is the dumbest thing ever. Why wouldn’t people wanting to beat the light when turning not treat that straight arrow as a green? Down here, they would give them an advance flashing green turn arrow to clear the turning traffic beforehand anyway…

[@HughT-eg4mt]

Willl they do that other places in Toronto that it is needed or is this just only in new systems

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

I'm not sure. Probably several more spots will get them! Hopefully hundreds of them to replace the existing leading pedestrian intervals where through movements are permitted.

[@mtlicq]

It is new here, and people are not used-to it and even probably do not know no right turn allowed even though there is green light... we are accustomed to right turns on green, right turns on red, right turns anytime

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

Because this is new, it will probably take some time for people to adjust to it. Hardly anyone turns here, but at intersections with too many violations, simply make the red ball display with the green through arrow. Adding a "no right turn on red" sign would help too.

[@mtlicq]

@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 yes the red ball/red no-right-turn during the green advanced through light will help prevent or greatly reduce unintended violations, and'/or public info-ads, but OMG, I hope we don't get any more no right on red signs!

[@UsernameIncoming]

@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 I found this setup in Ottawa. (link:maps.app.goo.gl/kDAAFernaHA39XUu6 ) In addition to the two usual signals with the straight-through green arrows, there is an auxiliary signal to the right that stays red during the LTI. All three signals display the green ball after the LTI. RTOR is banned 7am to 7pm. Do you think such a setup would be useful here?

[@UsernameIncoming]

Which intersections are they in?

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

It's at North Queen St & Medulla Ave. The through arrow is for eastbound and westbound only.

[@Gentrol]

WOO HOO!! Finally, it's about time!

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

It's way overdue!

[@Gentrol]

Agreed!

[@Joshua_Park_693]

Canadian Melody

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

Yes! Toronto is changing its east/west audible tone to Canadian melody now! Most east/west tones have the bird chirp still.

[@Petru.S]

Congrats, Jackson!

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

Thank you! Means a lot!

[@NKisilAirconditioners]

What are these intersections called?

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

This is the intersection of North Queen St & Medulla Ave in Toronto's west end (also known as Etobicoke).

[@NKisilAirconditioners]

Thanks for the information and I also have a little question

[@NKisilAirconditioners]

Should Durham region implement these?

[@brunogiffard6357]

I don't get it

[@karlhungus545]

Nor do I. What's the benefit of a 2 second arrow going straight?

[@rezhaej7911]

Its just like a brief yellow light pre green, whats the point having it

[@ImpoMundus]

yah i'm confused LOL. and people above talking about how almost no one wants to turn. what's happening.

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

@@karlhungus545 It's the same as a red turn arrow, followed by a flashing yellow arrow. The benefit of it, is to allow pedestrians into the crosswalk for a few seconds before traffic can turn. It's gives pedestrians a head start against turning traffic without delaying drivers that are not turning.

[@karlhungus545]

@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 Ok, so you can't turn right on that green arrow then, correct? I think they'd need to extend that time to at least double that to get people to wait. Those types of intersections don't really exist here in Saskatchewan that I've seen (i.e. no turn lane).

[@hobbyhacks]

Not sure what this does at all... What is the difference than turning the green light earlier? At best, it will do nothing for most people, and at worst it will slow thing down because of confused people not knowing wat to do. Also, there is no "no right turn on red" sign either. It is kind of similar to blinking pedestrian red light that turns into solid white after - it just confuses people when it turns solid white instead of expected red ...

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

A leading through arrow, means the same as a red turn arrow, followed by a flashing yellow arrow. Unfortunately, flashing yellow arrows aren't legal in Canada right now, so leading through only arrows are the equivalent of a red turn arrow followed by a flashing yellow arrow.

[@hobbyhacks]

@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 There should be a board with way better explanation then "Delayed green ball 5 sec"... What does the word "ball" have to do with the lights? How many people outside of traffic light professionals refer to a traffic light as a "ball" ?

[@hobbyhacks]

@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 Flashing yellow light in rest of the world means the traffic light is not in function. Using it in any other way will probably cause crashes as some people might not notice it is an arrow. You have way too much trust in human ability to navigate complex tasks. If you can, you should not assume that most people can as well.

[@ItsKyleMang]

Delayed green ball? Really? 🤦‍♂️

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

If you are going straight, there's no delay for you! It's better than a red light.

[@andybea6352]

They're referring to the funny sign

[@UsernameIncoming]

Yeah, the sign is unnecessary IMO. Doesn't really explain much and adds to the visual clutter

[@Urbanhandyman]

Sounds great on paper and that's about it.

[@TroubledKiwi]

What is the purpose, pedestrians have the ROW anyways. This is like over complication at the best. The walking man is already up when the arrow is, so it might as well just be a green ball and you wait like normal for the pedestrian....

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

I 100% agree. Due to politics, Toronto wants to give drivers a "red" light for the first few seconds to give pedestrians a head start, which I normally don't like. A through arrow is better, because traffic can still go straight.

[@TroubledKiwi]

@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 except that this way prohibits turns even when no pedestrian is there, further slowing down traffic and generating more traffic fines and confusion.

[@UsernameIncoming]

The problem is that drivers don't always yield. They don't always pay attention when turning.

[@UsernameIncoming]

The alternative is just keeping the red light on for a few extra seconds, which delays both through traffic and turning traffic.

[@TroubledKiwi]

@@UsernameIncoming the answer is with fines for drivers that don't yield. People pay more attention when they get hit in the wallet

[@astridisaacs8129]

10 billion dollars worth of tax payer money right there.

[@peterrussell3470]

10 billion on twinning the407 is ok though

[@ytpremium786-zk9cy]

Wtf is this? Waste of money for one

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

Compared to a leading pedestrian interval, it saves a few seconds for drivers, cyclists and public transit. It provides a head start for pedestrians without delaying drivers that aren't turning. It's the equivalent of a red turn arrow, followed by a flashing yellow arrow.

[@roku_nine]

What a waste of money. Just make the driving exam super strict like Japan and you get your solution.

[@pacman3556]

So how much of our tax money are they going to pi$$ away changing all the traffic lights to add the extra green arrow all to save two seconds in driving time?

[@HughT-eg4mt]

12 seconds

[@jacksonbourrettransportati9852]

Every fraction of each second counts when trying to maximize green time for drivers. Through traffic that isn't turning just needs to reinforce its right of way.

[@DozIT]

Less idling = less noise, emissions, fuel stops, time wasted Less time wasted = more economic productivity, happier people Happy people = healthier people, increased likelyhood of becoming a parent Every second counts, of all the things we can criticize our government for, implementing changes that just make like easier are fine by me.

[@pacman3556]

@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 no every second doesn't count. Every second has a cost or dollar value. If changing a set of traffic lights costs say 10 cents and it saves 1 million cars each one minute in driving time then the cost of changing the traffic lights is worth changing. However when it costs millions of dollars to change all traffic lights just to save one or two seconds the cost is not worth it. We also just changed the traffic lights to add the few seconds for pedestrians and here we are a short time later changing again when it could have all been done at one time (which shows how incompetent our politicians are). To put it into another perspective the average person that speeds saves about thirty seconds to a minute on their trip (depending on traffic, distance etc). So you think it is OK for someone to go whipping down a 50Km street at 100KM because as you state....they are saving a few seconds of time and every second counts?

[@Gentrol]

​@@DozITcompletely agree.