Toshiba X300 Performance HDWR460 6TB (2021) - Hard Drive Sounds

[@bigbluebananabread]

Pictures & info: bananahdd.nl/index.php/2023/03/03/toshiba-x300-performance-hdwr460-6tb-2021/

[@tingokuman]

Thank you I actually bought two of these in 16tb. I've heard from my I.T. friends these fail the least so I bought them based on that. The computer they are going in is a fairly quiet unit. They are not as loud as some of the reviews say.

[@bigbluebananabread]

Thanks for watching of course! I'm glad it was of use. I can resonate with that statement, these have been really good models for myself also. I think they're really quite reliable and certainly very underrated.

[@TheDragonFire123]

Which exact model? Those will be based on either the MG08 (non-D) family or, less likely, MG09, which are both helium platforms, which will help it keep quiet.

[@MyComputerStudios_]

Spindle start same as the n300, spindle idle is different than the n300 (similar to mk1002tskb) but seektest same. What's the use of this one?

[@bigbluebananabread]

Same architecture as the HDWG440, as per the KCC code declaring "MG08ADA400N", so this one is just a higher capacity variant as far as hardware is concerned (although, this one's base cast is more like the MK1002TSKB, being that this has four platters). Nonetheless, finding minor differences is quite an interesting part of differing capacities I've always thought. It might be surprising, but this one actually replaced two drives. These being a WD3200AAJS and a HDWD110 with the trusty HDD+SSD combo. Quite the upgrade!

[@MyComputerStudios_]

@@bigbluebananabread will the video on the WD3200AAJS come out eventually? Best OS to boot on that drive would be Windows XP or Windows 7, but if you have time constraints, run XP

[@bigbluebananabread]

@@MyComputerStudios_ Yes, I'll make a video on that one too eventually! I'm not sure when that'll be, since I'm nearing 300 drives on my datasheet currently, but it will be covered at some point in the future. I'll probably end up sticking 7 on it, but who knows, maybe something completely different!

[@MyComputerStudios_]

@@bigbluebananabread Do you think that the HGST Deskstar NAS lineup must have been named the Ultrastar NAS? Since NASes are servers, and Ultrastar drives are for servers, These must have been called like that!

[@MyComputerStudios_]

@@bigbluebananabread what happened to your IBM PS/2 stepper hdd?

[@yeoneoseusi]

It is the newest HDD and it is even the TOSHIBA X300. By the way, introduced in "BigBlueBananaBread"? really good! I like TOSHIBA's MG series and derivatives for their unique sound, stylish looks, speed and reliability (extremely subjective). It is a pleasure to see these HDDs. As stated on the website, the HDWR460 is definitely a direct descendant of the MK1002TSKB, almost identical to the last HDWG440. It is produced in the same factory and HDA is also almost similar. I love seeing how TOSHIBA improves FUJITSU's technology. It's strange that it's quieter than the HDWG440. I thought that if HDDs were manufactured similarly, they would sound similarly loud. I was overlooking the difference between the product lines. (Apart from that, TOSHIBA is definitely louder than the others, but I strangely like this). I like all of the TOSHIBA MG series and derivatives, but I think the looks like the HDWR11A, HDWG11A, HDWT31A, and MG06ACA10TE are cooler. Why is there such a difference in the product's chassis? Chassis designs such as the MD05ACA800 also exist. Aren't they all produced the same? Thank you for introducing these HDDs. I saw the latest TOSHIBA HDD on KZbin home and clicked right away. LOL 😂

[@TheDragonFire123]

There's probably some binning going on. Somehow I think the quieter and hotter units tend to be binned as X300s, and those that are cooler and louder for the N300s, but this can't be proved without more samples. And of course, the best units are sold as MG08-Ds. The reason why the HDWR11A and other Magnum platform models use a different HDA is because they need to house seven platters at most. Throughout Toshiba's enterprise history, the six and later seven platter models all use a different case, no doubt pushing the 26.1 mm form factor to its absolute limits (in fact, my HDWG11A is tall enough that it interferes with my Volans VL-UE35S, something no other hard drive has done). No surprise, as it is very difficult to fit seven platters into an air drive; and yet they did it without deleting any screw holes, only moved the bottom ones forward. In contrast, the maximum platter count in the MG08-D platform is five, so they use this HDA, as did the MG04s and earlier that maxed at five platters.

[@bigbluebananabread]

Thank you! I'm quite fond of this series of drives too, having been an excellent replacement for my older HGST drives as you saw a few weeks ago. I was quite surprised at how much quieter this one was compared to the N300's, but it would certainly be an interesting conclusion to reach if more units are studied. I agree fully with the comment made above this one too, where more samples may be needed to figure out the pattern! I'm also a huge fan of the looks of the HDWR11A and co, I completely agree in that I also think they look a lot cooler than these. Unfortunately I don't have any which share this design, as mentioned above, they're usually a bit more expensive in the fact that they have a much higher capacity ceiling with more platters being possible. Seven platters is an incredible feat for the space, which I really commend Toshiba for succeeding. I always wonder how interesting a drive could be, had the full height 3.5" form factor remained relevant. (imagine a 42mm tall modern drive!) I'm glad you enjoyed it, thank you! Fortunately, there will be more modern Toshiba's to show off in the future!

[@redictor]

0:44 is that what i thought was a clicking sound?

[@hariranormal5584]

Aren't these similar also to the NAS variants? At some point I remember them having a good price. and most say that these are very darn reliable too

[@bigbluebananabread]

Yeah, they're based on the same series, being the MG08-D. I've found them to be quite good value per TB compared to most other offerings (I'm in Europe for reference), WD stuff in general is a good 30% more expensive at least in my domestic market. So far my array of HDWG440's has been running for around 8 months with no issues, so I'd certainly agree that they're solid so far too!

[@hariranormal5584]

@@bigbluebananabread Nice! You use ZFS or something?

[@bigbluebananabread]

@@hariranormal5584 Yeah, I'm currently using ZFS. Recently switched over from using standalone EXT4, so far so good!

[@alexmarjanovic98]

Hi, what’s even the difference between that one and a HDWR180 that I have? Except the capacity. Mine was made Oct 2021. Is it just a newer series or something else? Now on the Toshiba website you can only find HDWR480 for the same capacity. Thanks

[@bigbluebananabread]

The drive in the video (the HDWR460) is based on Toshiba's MG08-D architecture. The HDWR180 is slightly older, being based on the MG06 series. If I were to compare your HDWR180 to the equivalent 8TB version of these with the HDWR480, the only major difference you'd experience as an end user would be speed, as the HDWR480 has a higher platter density (8TB with 5 platters, as opposed to with 6 on the HDWR180). So yes, fundamentally the HDWR480 is newer. There are other minor differences in construction, but for the most part knowing that these are newer and perform slightly faster is all that matters to most. Thanks for watching too of course!

[@alexmarjanovic98]

Thanks a lot for the explanation! I also read somewhere that the 1.33 TB platters they use in those are short stroke platters (maybe I even got that from your website 🤣). If that’s true, in theory, the density per square millimeter should be the same between those two series of X300, right? And also, shouldn’t in theory higher plattered drives be faster for sequential read or write since more parallelisation is possible (all those extra heads writing at the same time) since the tracks on any modern drive use all the platters from beginning to end simultaneously and not the first platter and then the second and so on (like that old 90s Toshiba that has a very interesting track pattern)? Thanks for your time

[@bigbluebananabread]

@@alexmarjanovic98 Yes that is true! Multi-platter drives certainly have some major advantages, particularly with the workloads you mentioned above. The added throughput is definitely a consideration for certain applications. I will admit, the HDWR460 above having short-stroked 1.6TB platters gives the best of both worlds, with high-density platters and lower latency for full access, thus quite incredible random speeds! (although, I wish the extra 500GB or so was actually accessible!) Of course, in the end the progress from 1.33TB with the MG06's to 1.6TB platters on (most) MG08-D's isn't a monumental leap (my old HGST 800GB per-platter drives feel like slugs now!), so the added density may not be worth it for certain sequential access loads improving significantly, like you mentioned, compared to the extra heads doing parallel work faster than a platter rotation. I can't say I've compared the data on the two equivalent models though, which might tell a more interesting story. The trade-off from density, to seek-time latency as a result of increased head-stack mass is certainly the difficult variable to manoeuvre through. I'm definitely no expert of sequential nor random performance metrics, but it certainly makes sense that it is the case in the end! Hah, I'm surprised to hear about that old Toshiba being brought up, that thing really threw me off-guard the first time I saw that track layout! Thank you for your comment too!

[@TheDragonFire123]

Given that your HDWR180 was made some three months after they were delisted from the Toshiba Europe website, I'd even claim that it is probably one of the last to be made before the HDWR480 fully took over.

[@TheDragonFire123]

Next time, if you're going to remove the S/N, make sure the barcode goes with it as well; as expected, that barcode encodes the S/N, and can be scanned with any QR code reader. Hence why for those drives I remove S/N from, I also remove the barcode as well. Not sure why these don't have TDMR, given that this was the flagship feature of the original MG08 helium drives (note that the MCU only has two pairs of traces going to the heads, whereas TDMR drives have three). The DT02s also do not, whereas Seagate does. In any case, it seems that Marvell has a new look for their MCUs to coincide with their new logo (which has been on Wikipedia for the longest time, but I've not seen a brand new Marvell MCU on a new PCB before this one); but at least they did go back home, after siding briefly with Avago for the MG06 (I have a HDWG11A that was delivered and failed commissioning today) and MG07. Also, it's hard to tell whether the terminal port is connected or not, but I don't see any traces from it to the MCU, so maybe not. I know the Tomcats (MG04) do.

[@bigbluebananabread]

Great point - I probably should've realised it was an easier barrier to cross, but the scan I ended up making reduced any QR reading issues considerably. Ah well. I usually don't bother with S/N removal (as you've seen with my HDWG440's), but since this one isn't in my own main machine it's the first time I felt the need to do so. Lesson learned for next time! It certainly makes one wonder where Toshiba ended up drawing the line with TDMR, given the lack of PCB images for the entire line-up of these I do wonder if it was implemented in any non-helium variants of these at all. I should probably image one of my HDWG440 PCB's too simply for preservation, but seeing the new Marvell branding is always a significant moment. It is quite curious to hear they went with Avago with the MG06/07's, although with that it's sad to hear your HDWG11A ended up as a dud. Out of curiosity, will you be making a video on it still before replacement, or shall we be looking forward to a video on a perfectly functional specimen? (that is, if you plan to cover it at all of course) Upon upgrading my camera equipment in the future, I'll attempt to take more detailed pictures of these boards in general eventually, given that my PCB shots aren't even close to being good. It is certainly quite hard to tell for sure though, I agree.

[@TheDragonFire123]

@@bigbluebananabread Alright; I guess most QR code scanners would struggle with the image, anyway, but there is the possibility. I don't know how Toshiba and SDK (their preferred platter manufacturer) managed to not need TDMR on such a high density platter, given that TDMR is mostly without any downsides. Though personally I'd trust a Marvell MCU more; it seems the Avago ones are more prone to just causing seek errors. Amazon didn't give me the option to replace the HDWG11A, only refund it; given this, I will likely not buy another sample and wait until Toshiba refreshes the HDA to make an MG10-D (and hope they actually bother to make 12 and 14 TB versions using six and seven platters; and likely will have Marvell MCUs this time). However, I do have enough on the failed sample to make a vid. I found the PCB shots to be serviceable compared to mine, which struggles with the faint MCU markings on some PCBs like the HDWD240's. I can tell you though, that the MCU is actually identical to that used in the MQ04 SMR drives, so that's a weird commonality; and a far cry from the original LSI MCU used on the pure Hitachi ones. On a totally unrelated side note, I'm picking up my second 2 TB/platter CMR drives. In fact, a pair of ST4000VN006-3CW104s, as Seagate is running a promotion in my country that throws in a free gadget if you buy a pair of eligible drives; though the ST4000VN006-3CW104 is the only 2 TB/platter on that list. One of them will be donated and the other will be kept as a spare for when Toshiba releases the fabled DT03 CMRs.

[@bigbluebananabread]

@@TheDragonFire123 Thanks for mentioning it too of course, at least it's a lot quicker to hide on these compared to the miriad of information blaring on modern Seagates! I had heard quite a few dubious things with the MG06's when concerning behavioural/firmware weirdness, but given they used Avago it makes a lot more sense now. I do wonder why they went with Avago in the end, I assume price or contractual limitations, but at least it's the fitting reunion for Toshiba to return to Marvell. While a shame you won't end up with a HDWG11A in service, I do very much look forward to the video covering it. I've been very close to picking up a HDWG180 recently (just for the sake of having an MG06 variant in operation), but perhaps I'll hold off for a little while longer too. I'll admit, the LSI MCU on my HDWD130 has been a total nightmare to capture (even with some... "improvements" to my future PCB captures), to the point I gave up with it for the most part. I can barely see it with my own eyes anyway, even after dousing it with IPA to improve results. I'm fascinated to hear the changes made there with the HDWD240, seeing anything but an LSI on one will always feel a bit strange. I suppose being SMR it warrants a change, but seeing more of Toshiba's influence with these designs is unsettling sometimes. All I can say is that your Seagate coverage is certainly unmatched! Not a bad move when free items are involved though, I'll be curious to see the coverage. I've been torn between picking up an ST4000VN006 or an ST4000NE001 recently, although given that it'd be my first new Seagate drive since 2013 I'll likely end up going with the ST4000NE001 for peace of mind (we can all praise that glorious 5 year warranty). Either way, I'm very interested in seeing the ST4000VN006 alongside your thoughts eventually. Seems Toshiba like to keep us waiting with the interesting ones, I'm optimistically hopeful this year.

[@TheDragonFire123]

@@bigbluebananabread It helps when in your country, Toshibas are hard to find; I have to resort to ozgameshop (no longer selling hard drives) for all P300 and L200s, and Amazon for both enterprise grade ones. The next Tosh will likely either be the fabled 2 TB CMR P300, or the MG10-D rebrand (which in experience, takes nine months to trickle down. The MG08-D was first announced in October 2020, and nine months later, in July 2021, all 4, 6 and 8 TB X300 and N300 models, such as the HDWE140 and HDWN160 respectively, were silently replaced with MG08-D derived models). Funny enough, your HDWR460 is the oldest X300 MG08-D I have seen; predating the silent release and old enough not to have UKCA markings. My unit was made one month later, and does have that. I forgot to mention the actual P/N of the HDWD240 MCU; it is a Marvell 88i1017-NDB2. It probably explains a lot of why the HDWD240s are essentially laptop drives in a 3.5" HDA. One thing for sure; the MG08-D PCB, G0049A, is a lot less complex than the MG04/Tomcat's G3626A. By the way, I thought I might as well discuss the platform name of MG06, Magnum; it seems to be derived from the MG model number, but interestingly, this existed well before Magnum's 2017 release. Perhaps someone on the FCPP team decided to backronym it. Also, although all sites call it Magnum, it seems the PCB calls it Magnum 6 (M6-SATA). Given this, it might be the case that all the platform names from here on out are Magnum (generation number), e.g. Magnum 8A for the HDWR460, but this is impossible to prove. I didn't mention the recipient of the second ST4000VN006-3CW104; it is @LiftsInQLD, which will be his main data drive on delivery in April.

[@bigbluebananabread]

@@TheDragonFire123 I'm quite surprised to hear that. Over here at least, Toshiba's are shockingly easy to find, being insanely competitive with Seagate's for pricing. As usual, WD's are the worst of the lot, being uber expensive and usually rather delayed on release. It has sadly been that way for a considerable amount of time. Quite an interesting difference though, I do hope they'll be a touch more common eventually over there. Of course, I'm very much looking forward to Toshiba's future releases. I do wonder if we'll see a top-plate design change for Toshiba's air-based models anytime in the next few years, it does seem they're quite fond of the current design. If it works, I guess there's no reason to change it up either, but it would be a fun moment. To be honest, I completely expected a much newer HDWR460 based on the message I received from the online store. Certainly didn't expect to see no UKCA marking after all the HDWG440's I've been through recently, it almost looked strange. Incredibly interesting trivia concerning the Magnum codename, that's fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing! It would be an interesting element of surprise if Magnum's naming origin is ever uncovered. One can only hope we'll see a leak one day. I can only imagine the interesting elements hidden, particularly from the transitional period of FCPP. Speaking of MG04's, I somehow picked up an MG04ACA100N a few weeks ago, by a stroke of pure luck. It's still a drive I need to verify for use, but I'm curious to see the differences you mentioned with a more complex layout. Something for the future, at least. I sure wish the same Seagate deal was going on over here. Would probably cooerce me into trying them again. Nonetheless, that's a sweet process in the end!

[@NelsonBigGunP200Fan]

That's a cool drive. Are these still being made as rebranded hgst drives ? It seems quiet and fast!

[@TheDragonFire123]

I'm presuming you are referring to the classic Deskstar 7K1000.D and related rebranded Toshiba's, and not this one which isn't related to HGST; those are still being made, the most recent sample I have being 14 January 2021, but others are new enough to have UKCA markings.

[@bigbluebananabread]

This one is a natively produced Toshiba, a design which came into fruition based on their acquisition of Fujitsu's division back in 2009. At this point, little of Fujitsu's vision remains, but there are a few hints here and there (alongside being produced in Fujitsu's old factory in the Philippines). As mentioned in the reply above, Toshiba's factory in China is still producing ex-HGST designs, of which I'll have one of those demonstrated in a few weeks again.

[@NelsonBigGunP200Fan]

@BigBlueBananaBread I didn't know toshiba made their own designs too. That's cool.i mean apart from them making laptop drives before the rebranded HGST ones

[@claudiomonteda8716]

@@bigbluebananabread What are the HGST models that Toshiba currently uses? I thought that the X300 had HGST patents in use that WD gave up a few years ago so there would be no difference between a X300 PRO and a Deskstar 7K1000 also with HDDs of 3.5 or higher (I'm from Korea, excuse my English) ​

[@ErikS-]

my vacuum cleaner makes less noise...

[@emeraldmakesstuff]

its an amplified recording, purely for demonstration purposes, actual thing sounds quieter.