TouchDRO Hardware for a Knee Type Milling Machine

[@terrycannon570]

Mark I must say you are right on time. I am still in the learning phase of using my Touch DRO. I am better with using it than when I first started but still would love an in depth tutorial of using the different functions. You have done an excellent video and installation of yours. On the installation of mine I chose to keep all the readers stationary and move the scales thru them. I did this because over time the flexing of the cables is sure to be a problem. It takes a lot more thot and time to keep them all stationary than if i had of made the scales stationary and moved the readers. You can be certain that myself and many other Blu DRO users will be waiting patiently for your next presentation. Your channel is among what I choose to call my Top Shelf Channels. Thanks again for sharing with us.

[@Preso58]

Terry, thanks for the encouragement to keep going with my channel. I too am learning how to use the TouchDRO app. I feel like it will be very useful to me but it's not exactly intuitive. I have found that you can store workspaces for things like tool offsets and for edge finders. I have two edgefinders, one with a 6mm pin on the end and the other has a 1/4" ball. You can store an offset for both and just call it up when you need it. That alone is a great functionality to have. Regards, Mark

[@krisholt]

I have had TouchDRO on my 1958 Colchester Triumph lathe since 2014, at that time kits was not available so I made my own. I use glass scales and a Texas instruments MSP430 microcontroller. I have shortened the cross slide glass scale with no problems. The main slide have a travel of about 1250mm, and I couldnt justify the cost of a glass scale in that lenght, but had a rotary encoder with 4096 pulses per revolution, I mounted a toothed belt in the whole lenght of the main slide, and let it drive the rotary encoder. The resolution is not the greatest, but better than before where there wasent even a scale on the main handwheel.

[@Preso58]

I believe there are some really ingenious systems out there based on the TouchDRO app. Yours sounds like it's been successful too. I am planning to do a bit of a cost comparison in the next video. Regards, Mark

[@krisholt]

@@Preso58 I love my setup, today a chinese glass scale is much cheaper than six years ago, but my toothed belt and rotary encoder works just fine. A few weeks back I dropped my tablet behind the lathe and it ruined the screen, so I might have to copy your idea.

[@VincentGreene]

Nice job. I really like that case. I've been experimenting with those scales from an electronics perspective. I'll use one on my mill's quill for a summing calculation with the z axis glass scale. One of the benefits of that type of capacitive scales is it returns an absolute position, unlike glass scales which are strictly relative. That has some advantages in getting the same value after a power cycle.

[@lv_woodturner3899]

Good progress. I did enjoy the wild life at the beginning of the video. Lots of different wild life in my area, deer, fox, skunks, raccoons, groundhogs, rabbits, mice, rats, chipmunks, squirrels, wild turkeys, pheasant, grouse, hawks, woodpeckers to name a few. I am glad we do not get black bear in my area, but they are around in other parts of the state. About 30min drive is a high spot on the local mountains where hawks and other large birds circle to take advantage of thermal currents. Dave.

[@Preso58]

We have made a few trips to the USA and Canada and our mission was to see bear and moose. Sadly we saw neither. The closest we got were zillions of squirrels (which we loved) and some sleepy looking bison in a public park in San Francisco. Interestingly we notice how few birds there were. We are very blessed with the bird life here. Regards, Mark

[@rodfrey]

I keep trying to look at you when you're talking to the camera -- because it's polite to look a person in the eye when they're speaking -- but damn, I can't keep my peepers off that bridgeport. The paint job is like some millionaire's Lamborghini restoration. Gotta go back through the old vids... maybe I can make my 6" grinder look like that.

[@Preso58]

Unfortunately, spending a lot of time on the paint is a double edged sword. Every little chip and scratch shows up and I find myself being very careful around the machine instead of just getting on and using it. Regards, Mark

[@RaptorMachineToolCo]

Nice job! I also installed the touch DRO and integrated it with my existing accurite glass scales.. works wonderfully !!

[@Preso58]

I had installed one of those Chinese 3 axis DRO's with glass scales on my old mill and it worked well. However I never really liked the way the digital display tried to show instructions for things like bolt hole circles. Many of the steps for things like setting the radius, the number of holes and the start and end angles were a bit cryptic and hard (for me) to follow. I like the way the TouchDRO app gets around this by having good graphical displays and plain english for text entry. Regards, Preso

[@roylucas1027]

I have a touch dro on order. Very timely video from my point of view. Looking forward to next video.

[@Preso58]

Thanks Roy. I have a job coming up where I need to drill some holes in a bolt pattern and I am hoping to show how I do this using the bolt hole function. Regards, Mark

[@joandar1]

GDay Mark, I have seen a Video on YT about how to cut Glass Scales some time back. I do not recall whom posted it, however a search may help any person interested. Again a well presented video Preso. Cheers from John, EC Australia.

[@joandar1]

@CurlyG65 Thanks Mate, John.

[@krisholt]

I have shortened both a Heidenhain and a Mitutoyo glass scale with no problems, just cut a piece out of the side and cut the glass piece with a Dremel or similar, then clean the end and put it all together after a cleanup.

[@Preso58]

John, I watched a couple of those too. Yuchol at Woods Creek Workshop did a good one. I think it still carries some risk. The main turnoff for me came from Yuriy's website where he discusses the pros and cons of each type of scale. I have glass scales on my lathe and they have worked well for nearly five years now but they are a lot bulkier and need a lot more care when aligning them. They are probably not at as much risk where they are situated on the lathe but on the mill it just seemed like they would be exposed to a lot more coolant, chips and accidental damage. It's early days though. Regards, Mark

[@bmalovic]

Hi Mark, Drill a hole on the back side of that arm profile, near the pivot bolt. Drill another, near the TouchDRO. Route cables thru that holes, and you can put surplus of the cables inside profile. Gromets etc... you know... EDIT Ups... Now I see another people have same thougths :) BTW... If you put that tablet above arm (not in the center of it, as it is now), you can achevie better vewing angle if you need to pivot the arm more to the back (you are not limited so you can rotate tablet beyond arm). Of course, I'm not sure, maybe it will be to high, but... just an idea.

[@Preso58]

I am not really happy with how I have run the wires and I have decided to put them all inside the hollow arm but I will need to turn down the middle of the pivot bolt so I can get the plugs through. Hopefully I'll have an update in the next video. Regards, Mark

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Well done with the usual extra care for detail. Thanks for the video.

[@blfstk1]

Good Show Mate...as always. I love hanging around smart people. It helps my status. I have to borrow smarts from smart people. I don't seem to have any myself. Be well. It's cheaper than being sick.

[@andrewdolinskiatcarpathian]

Excellent ideas. Very timely as my own TouchDRO arrives any day for my mini mill. 👍😀

[@TheKnacklersWorkshop]

Hi Mark, As I watched you assemble everything I thought Mark is not going to be happy with the cables... Somehow I think they will be shortened... Great video, thank you. Take care Paul,,

[@Preso58]

Definitely not shortened but I have a plan to hide them better than they are at present. My only regret is that I drilled a bunch of holes in the arm which will now be redundant. Regards, Mark

[@GoCreatehms]

Very interesting and looking really good. Looking forward to seeing how you get on with it in use.

[@AboutTheBuild]

The probe function looks handy. Good stuff.

[@Preso58]

Yes, 'm not sure how that is meant to work but I am keen to look into it. Regards, Preso

[@gregfeneis609]

12:58 The label looks metallic. How did you cut that with the laser cutter?

[@Preso58]

Greg, it's a plastic material with a metallic like finish on the surface. The generic name is a "laser ply". The top layer is very thin and a low power laser can etch it quite easily. The thicker underlying layer is a different colour and is exposed when the top layer is etched away. There are lots of different colour combinations but it is hard to get in small quantities. Regards, Mark

[@gregfeneis609]

@@Preso58 OK, nice. Thanks Mark

[@marianodiaz461]

Hi Mark, I think that you should protect the scales from coolant splash, these scales like some digital verniers are notorious for not being coolant proof. Great job mate

[@Preso58]

I have just purchased some rubber way covers which will protect the X and Y scales but I haven't gotten around to fitting them yet. I always seem to spend my time making videos! 😁

[@DCT_Aaron_Engineering]

G'day Mark. Love that size of the numbers on that DRO mate. I could actually read those without my glasses on LOL. I see that cheeky cocky is back. That was a big goanna too. I haven't seen one in years. I'd say Covid drove most of the wildlife out of Victoria (Joke LOL). Cheers mate. Aaron.

[@Preso58]

I wish I had been able to get my phone out in time to capture the currawongs and magpies attacking that goanna. The poor thing was seeking refuge under our house. I guess they don't have a lot of defence from aerial assaults. Regards, Mark

[@VincentGreene]

Also. Standard usb micro connectors, but not standard usb connections. Don't make the mistake of plugging a usb charger or computer usb port into those scales, they run at 3 volts and standard usb is 5v. Not sure whether that is a problem with plugging into the wrong ports on Yuri's boards, I'd guess not. He seems to be pretty smart about protection in his hardware designs.

[@Preso58]

Vincent, I did accidently plug a 5V charger into the LCD display for the iGaging scale. I thought I had killed it but all that happened was the internal coin cell instantly discharged. I replaced the cell and the display powered up again. I believe that Yuriy has built in a fairly wide tolerance to voltage on the board. Early versions of the bluetooth kit were prone to earth loops. He seems to have resolved a lot of those issues now. Regards, Mark

[@Teklectic]

I just won a tablet on Ebay for cheap and I'm working on ordering in the scales I need to get this working on my mini mill, I'll be really interested to see how this works out for you, I think the accuracy of ~.004" should be close enough for me on my little machine for most work, and if I need extra precision I can always setup some dials!

[@michaelbelfer1692]

Hi Mark, liked both videos. Im thrashing through the installs right now but on the reduced mounting area (compared to a Bridgport) of a smaller Rong Fu clone, more or less a RF-25. I'd like to correspond on suppliers, as I am also in Melbourne.

[@Preso58]

Michael, I just recently replaced all the iGaging capacitive scales on my Bridgeport with glass scales. My main issue was that the capacitive scales would sometimes suffer from electrical interference from either the main spindle motor or something in the electrical enclosure like a contactor. I found that I was constantly second guessing the reported position of the scales. It only happened very occasionally and most of the time the system behaved perfectly. I tried lots of different ways of mitigating it like earthing the Bluetooth adapter and mounting the scales on insulating blocks so they were isolated from the frame of the mill but although it got better it still occasionally tripped me up. I do know that some people have no issues with TouchDRO and capacitive scales but at the end of the day I just couldn't trust the scales. Since changing to glass scales the TouchDRO has been working 100%. I have a video coming out soon where I discuss the reasons for changing and I also show some of the new features of TouchDRO. The capacitive scales are much easier to fit and are more immune to coolant and chips than glass scales and my reasons for fitting them in the first place are still valid. The glass scales are bigger, bulkier, not so easy to cut to length (I still don't think it's a good idea but some people get away with it). They are also more expensive from the outset and if you use flood coolant they will almost certainly end up needing to be cleaned. If you do need to discuss this in more detail, email me at [e-mail] Regards, Mark

[@hossanderson643]

Are the old heads still available? I'm interested. Thanks for the videos, very informative

[@Preso58]

Ben, yes I still have them but I haven't read through all the comments yet. Email me if you like [e-mail]

[@user-neo71665]

Can ya not drill a hole in the back of the tube, 3d print a bushing, and still run the wires in it. Should also double as a way to stuff the wire slack inside.

[@themightyparthos]

You beat me to it, I had the same thought.

[@Preso58]

I will be doing something like that and I'll have the update in the next video. My one regret is that I drilled a bunch of redundant holes in the back side of the arm. 😥

[@user-neo71665]

@@Preso58 in racing we call that weight reduction. Or when we boo boo like that we always just slap a sticker over it, that also ads power.

[@xdrfan]

Nice work Mark, I thought since it is Bluetooth that you could mount it on the knee and keep 3 of 4 wires local to the knee and only have to route the quill wire to the module. Would that be a neater arrangement? Dangling cables annoy me as well.

[@Preso58]

I do have a plan to make it a lot neater. I was very conscious of trying to keep the adapter clear of coolant and swarf. Anything below table level might be an issue. I did have some really cheap capacitive scales on an old mill and they had USB plugs and sockets at both ends. The sockets on the read heads ended up corroded from the coolant and they failed completely. Hopefully I'll have an update in the next video. Regards, Mark

[@dougseag67]

@@Preso58 Hi Mark. Getting that adaptor off of the arm might be a good idea. The less movement of those cables the better IMO. The ports for the USB connections are renowned for becoming loose and resulting in intermittent connection problems. Enjoying the vids 😊

[@ncut5547]

So how did u get the scales to be compatible with the adapter because the scales are not all the same wiring wise 🤔 thks Nigel.

[@Preso58]

Nigel, Yuriy supplies boards which will work with glass, magnetic and capacitive scales. Each has the correct style of connector to suit the scales you will want to use. I believe you can also update the firmware to suit different scales although you would need to change out the connectors on the board. I should also mention that I recently upgraded my mill to glass scales. The capacitive scales were not 100% reliable for me. As an entry level system it was OK but I found that I was getting some sort of electrical interference that would occasionally reset the position of one or more readout. It meant that if you didn't notice it happening you would ruin a part. The glass scales have been rock solid and although they were harder to fit and more time consuming to tram in, they give me peace of mind. Check out www.yuriystoys.com/ Regards, Mark

[@darrylwhitman6849]

very nice video , I just ordered one, hope I can make it look as nice as your's,,,

[@Preso58]

I can send you the artwork for the front panel if you need it. Regards, Mark

[@darrylwhitman6849]

@@Preso58 no thank you Mark, Im trying to get as much info on these as i can. your Video is a big help. thank you again

[@Dave.Wilson]

Nice job you did there, thanks for the video.

[@srmofoable]

What about putting a hole and bushing in the tube and just stuffing the extra wire into the tube. Sure beats shortening wires or coiling them up. I've hidden wires in projects before using this method and it's actually nice to have the extra length available when things inevitably change or service is performed.

[@Preso58]

Yes, I am going to hide the wires in the aluminium tube. I am going to turn the pivot bolt down in the centre so I can get the plugs past it. I definitely don't want to try shortening the wires! Hopefully I'll have an update in the next video. Regards, Mark

[@rudddude5294]

i love the TouchDro, have 2 (lathe/mill) and one works likes yours does with the slight flicker, but really a non-issue . the other one i have(a newer model) only works well if i remove it from my power grid/house power and hook it up to a DC battery pack, then it works flawlessly, no flicker. most likely some kind of interference going on ...?

[@Preso58]

Yuriy has some information on his website about earth loops in power supplies that can cause flickering on the display. Running from a battery would eliminate that. I believe that having an older isolated transformer type power supply can avoid earth loops too. Regards, Mark

[@karf450]

great looking machine

[@JoeyG1973]

Any chance you can share the STLs for the usb cable management you have on the back of he arm for your tablet holder?

[@Preso58]

Joe, try this link www.dropbox.com/sh/ggp7vm5bipnp3zh/AADCL2k04KNI8F3uokDFOPVHa?dl=0 Regards, Mark

[@JoeyG1973]

@@Preso58 thank you! I am doing a TouchDRO now and I am using igauging scales just like you. Mine is going on a Wells Index Model 55. Had to make all kinds of mounts on my 3D printer to ensure everything was electrically isolated. I am now making the aluminum mounts you made to hold the scales. They will still mount to the 3D printed mounts to ensure electrical isolation. BTW, if you open the read head on the scales you will find that they are connected to the board in there via a micro usb connector. So what I did with mine was get 3 of these. www.amazon.com/dp/B076HGJGPK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_B61dGbKRN66DF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 Still looking for a 6 foot micro usb b male to female cord of decent quality.

[@Preso58]

@@JoeyG1973 Ok, thanks for letting me know about the internals of the read head. I wasn't game to dismantle anything there. With my fumble fingers I'd be sure to break something or lose something. Regards, Mark

[@rogercrier]

I notice you have a half function on your screen? I am using the same scales as you but with 2.5.10 build 2016-08-12 software! Is there a more up to date software download available? Looking forward to your “how to use it” video✅✅

[@Preso58]

Roger, the 1/2 function is not easy to get up on the screen. Try a short press on the actual digits for either X or Y and you will see the options for the 1/2 function there. A long press on the digits will allow you to set an absolute point. You can just uninstall your current app and download the latest version or update the old version. Regards, Mark

[@CraigLYoung]

Thanks for sharing!

[@avibank]

Could you not have ground the pivot bolt to allow for some clearance for the wires?

[@avibank]

I think it's better to have them mounted on the outside like you did. #Maintenance

[@Preso58]

I have a plan for making things a lot tidier. Hopefully I'll have an update in the next video. Regards, Mark

[@kennethmoller1]

Hi , i can’t find the video you refer to about where you made the sign

[@Preso58]

Kenneth, I didn't do a separate video on making the front panel for the case. I was referring to the short sequence I showed where it was being etched and cut. Some of my other videos show more detail on laser cutting and etching. Regards, Mark

[@davidhofman4341]

Could the TouchDro have been mounted on the mill. I used his very early version of TouchDro that you built yourself

[@Preso58]

I tried the bluetooth adapter in lots of locations around the mill and it seems to have no real problem staying connected so you could put it somewhere where it's not in the way or exposed to chips and coolant but you still need to run the connections from the scales to the adapter. Yuriy still sells the kit and I believe a lot of users build there own based on different microcontroller platforms. Regards, Mark

[@stevenbray8135]

Ha mark restoring Brown Sharpe no 1 D milling machine made in 1905 will be fitting DRO to it those displays would look good on it

[@Preso58]

Hi Steven, I have been contacted by a viewer of my channel who read your comment about your Browne and Sharpe milling machine. The viewer has some tooling and two vertical heads he would like to give to you since he no longer needs them. He lives in Ashland, Massachusetts, USA but he would like to contact you privately. If you could contact me on my email address [e-mail] I can let you know his email address. I am sure if you get in touch with him you will be able to take advantage of the offer. He only just contacted me today so the offer should still be good. Regards, Mark Presling

[@v8Mercury]

Problem I see here in Canada. Seems to be the scales are just as expensive as the whole setup, a soft button LCD DRO with included scales. If I had scales already. Or they were cheaper this would be great.

[@Preso58]

Nicholas, I am going to do a cost breakdown in the next video and this should make it clear how the TouchDRO system compares with some of the off the shelf systems out there. I did purchase a Chinese three axis DRO with glass scales for my previous mill and I was quite happy with it. The main advantage with the TouchDRO system is that the firmware is constantly under development and upgrades are possible as new features become available. Regards, Mark

[@garagemonkeysan]

Cool video. Interesting. Nice work. Mahalo for sharing! :) 🐒

[@huibhoogendoorn503]

Hi Mark. I'm interesting in the total costs of this DRO. Because a good functional, Azian, DRO with 3 glass scales cost these days about 350 US Dollars.

[@Preso58]

Huib, I intend to do a bit of a cost breakdown in the next video but for me to buy a Chinese 3 axis DRO with a vacuum fluorescent display and glass scales would cost me around AU$450. The scales would be more accurate than the capacitive scales but they are more prone to coolant and chip damage. I can buy a 12" iGaging scale for around $70. If you already have an old Android phone or tablet then all you need is the TouchDRO bluetooth adapter. It cost me about $80 so I figure it has worked out cheaper than the cheap Chinese DRO but the TouchDRO app has a lot more functionality. Regards, Mark

[@FredFred-wy9jw]

Let us know how the capacitive touch screen reacts to cutting oiled fingers....

[@rogercrier]

Mine works fine!

[@Preso58]

That's going to come up at some point. However that tablet is a real cheap one. I suspect the glass on the screen is not exactly gorilla glass. It's bound to get scratched. Regards, Mark

[@RaptorMachineToolCo]

Fred, I have my tablet in a HD case with screen protector ... no worries there! Works great !

[@janalleman]

Can you please tell me the brand and type of the laser cutter

[@Preso58]

Jan, the laser is a cheap Chinese no name with a 50 watt CO2 tube. It has been retrofitted with a LightObject digital signal processor (DSP) which makes it much easier to use. When I purchased the laser from my former workplace (a high school) it wasn't working because the Chinese manufacturer fitted it with an encrypted DSP and a dongle. This is because they use counterfeit electronics and the dongle is used to decrypt the communication with the computer. If you are thinking about buying a Chinese CO2 laser, try to get one with open source control software and no dongle. Another problem with the dongle is that you are locked into their software which is usually poorly written with Chinglish manuals and on screen instructions. Regards, Mark

[@janalleman]

@@Preso58 Thanks a lot Mark , I start looking on AliExpress and Amazon

[@CapeCodCNC]

Nice work!

[@_bodgie]

You should let people know how long the Goanna is, people may get a little bit of surprise.

[@Preso58]

Yes, if you're not familiar with them it would be something of a shock to find one around the house. I am guessing that guy was about 1.5 metres long.

[@kenny5174]

I've done so much dreaming about a DRO. My main question, How does the price compare with the cheap China made systems? could you give a close estimate of price? By the way, good job on the video, as always!

[@terrycannon570]

I can't speak for Mark but i spent around $400 usd on the installation of mine. That includes the aluminum angle and the cost of the Samsung Galaxy Tablet. If a person already has a tablet or an Android phone it would be much less. I use the Galaxy Tablet for so much more than the Touch DRO such as storage of pdf files for my shop many different apps you can down load from the play store so if I was to divide the cost of the Tablet by the different apps that I have it would very little cost to the installation of the Touch DRO. Part of the cost of installation would also be necessary if you installed any other brand of DRO.

[@Preso58]

Ken, I will do a cost breakdown in the next video but if you already have an old android tablet or phone then you save yourself a couple of hundred dollars right from the start. I am thinking I am still about 20% ahead even though I had to buy the tablet. Regards, Mark

[@troymikalansky6438]

Hi my name is troy I watched your latest video where you mentioned that you mentioned you had a conversation with someone from TouchDro is there a number I could talk to someone I just bought the same box on your video but I need that rpm attachments that yuri sent you is there a real phone # I can call. I would like it to show up in same package thanks

[@Preso58]

Troy, as far as I know, Yuriy does not sell the accessories for the tachometer function on TouchDRO however he has provided a port to connect a hall effect sensor which is used to register the pulses from a magnet or array of magnets attached to the spindle. Yuriy sent me two Sainsmart hall effect sensor modules but so far I haven't fitted them to my mill. I don't know Yuriy's phone number but I have contacted him by email [e-mail] Regards, Mark

[@troymikalansky6438]

@@Preso58 Thank you Mark for responding so quickly at least I know what I'm searching for now. Thanks again Troy.

[@taranson3057]

I will take the digitals if no one else has claimed them

[@Preso58]

Well, I still have them all. If you get in touch via email I can talk it over with you. [e-mail]

[@dale9896]

👍

[@jdmccorful]

It's fun learning something new.