Tough Love: A Meditation on Dominance & Dogs

This 2012 documentary feature (produced by Anchorhold Films & Tower Hill Films) traces the history of the “alpha dog” concept from its origins in 1940’s wolf studies to its current popularity among ordinary dog owners and professional trainers.
The film is newly dedicated to Dr. Sophia Yin.
Subt. en español:
• Tough Love A Meditatio...
(Gracias a Luis Gómez)

[@guitardoggie]

Dr. Yin, you are so missed.

[@pepsiboorowe]

Does anyone else find it funny that the guy who preaches dominance has the dogs who are constantly fighting?

[@kaylaglenn7631]

That's what I was thinking too. He is obviously not the pack leader LOL

[@DougZaga]

Just came across this. If you are talking about the 4 dogs with Bruce Billings then you have no idea about dogs. That is dog play not fighting. I hope that helps you, Courtney.

[@animalobsessed1]

@@DougZaga Are you saying you think the scene at 8:23 is playing? That was very clearly the Rottweiler being over-aroused, harassing the other dogs, failing to respond to their lack of engagement, until the black dog got fed up and air snapped at him. Very interesting that the "dog trainer" didn't seem to notice... Also 6:19 Yeeees, very nice playing right there. (sarcasm) At least he noticed that one.

[@DougZaga]

@@animalobsessed1 Hi looking at your channel I don't see you working with large, working type breed dogs. Their behavior with what was going on was all acceptable. There was give and take no one dog biting any other dog in aggression but communicating. There is a toy that obviously also brings them into drive. Take time to look at the totality of the environment before reading dog/s

[@animalobsessed1]

@@DougZaga You seriously think it's acceptable for a large Shepherd to pin down a little Beagle mix? I'm sorry, breed is not an excuse. Also, looking at my channel, you may notice that I don't post my entire life. I mainly just post my own dogs, because I don't know how owners of other dogs would feel about me posting theirs. In fact, I do have more videos with other dogs, they just aren't public because I've been specifically asked not to make them public. (not that my personal life is relevant to the topic anyway) Excusing inappropriate behavior, just because the breed has an aggressive reputation, seems really counterproductive to me. Something I've noticed though, is that the type of people drawn to power breeds, are often the type of people who really, REALLY want to convince themselves that they're oh-so-powerful that they can "dominate" wolves (by pretending that's what their domestic pets are).

[@af6977]

Personally I think this debate will go on and on just like on the topic of religion, abortion, gay marriage etc etc. However I would like to put in my two cents worth, without trying to convince anyone whatsoever. Just some background information: over the years I have rescued over 150 animals from the streets of Santiago, Chile, mainly dogs and rehomed the majority of them. I live with 17 dogs and that means they are part of the family, I don't have kennels, I live on an acre of fenced land, my dogs get a lot of exercise, they're raw fed, see the vet when necessary, are all spayed and neutered except one big male. I don't live in a pig sty and I'm not a dog hoarder, my dogs are all healthy, happy and well cared for. Living with so many dogs has taught me a lot about canine behaviour and what I don't see is set hierarchical dominant/submissive behaviour. I see dogs that respect each other's space, I see so called "alpha" dogs that chose not to fight but to just move away, I see dogs that drop into a submissive belly roll instead of an alpha dog throwing the submissive dog on its back as they say and that belly up position is done with minimum aggression, It's the way they avoid a fight. I also got caught up in the dominance training theory in the past and personally I have come to believe that its faster, easier and more rewarding to train positively. The relationship you develop with your dog is much deeper and the dog is more relaxed. I live with all these dogs and I have no issue with "dominance" whatsoever, I've never had a dog try to bite me, they all listen to what I want them to do, they sleep on the couch or the bed if they want and they get off when I want them too, they all listen without me having to bribe them with food although initially I will train with food and quickly move over to life rewards when they learn the word. So for what its worth, I think that old dominance theory is bunk and positive training is the way to go.

[@vaquero7x]

Hello Don Juan, your invironment does not seem to be very "natural". I will explain why I do not agree with your theory. You wrote that you do not see the "alpha" behaviour. The problem with you assessment is that you have spayed and neutered dogs. What if and what if you had several females in heat and many non-neutered males and less food? like it would be in a free natural state? Would you observe tha same behaviour? , greetings.

[@no_peace]

There is no natural state for dogs. They live with humans providing food for them, generally in small numbers, not allowed to fight. That's their natural state. They are adapted to life with people.

[@headphonic8]

@@vaquero7x They literally explained in the video that the alpha behavior is NOT natural and was only observed in captive wolves. It was not observed in "natural" free wolves. Did you even watch the video?

[@andychibob4889]

@@headphonic8 He was talking about the commenters dogs.... aren't dogs captive canines?

[@EdenHalbert]

I thank the makers of this video who graciously posted this online for everyone to see, in honor of Dr. Yin, whom we lost this week.

[@marthalozano7018]

Eden Halbert `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

[@Edcognito]

:'(

[@jeffmiller4845]

Oh my gosh when she chokes up...Dr Yin you were amazing

[@tWendyDarling]

A terrific loss to the dog training community. Rest in Peace Dr. Yin.

[@JupiterJennyArts]

This is such a great little video. I cannot tell you how much I could cry when I think about how I used to train my own dogs, and the better relationship I could of had with them had I known then what I know now. I worked in animals shelters and vet hospitals and boarding kennels and I used to preach this Alpha crap. I used to live and breath it. Thank the stars for Dr. Sophia Yin (RIP)and Paul Owens! I feel for Paul (the original DOG WHISPERER!) so much- he has fought this fight for so long and to have someone come out and call themselves the Dog Whisperer and then take us all on this back slide horror show of dog training and understanding. We have to evolve - our understanding of animal behavior is so much better then that. We ARE BETTER THEN THIS. There is a better way and a easier way and best of all a KINDER WAY.

[@plasterdbastard]

I cry every time I think about how I used to train my dogs... Big dude like me crying because I knew I could do better by my ol' fur babies and I failed them in listening to advice that I think I always intuitively knew was wrong.

[@JupiterJennyArts]

We can only do better for our dogs as we stubble through this life =)

[@stuartdenyer8001]

Respect to you for admitting you were wrong, takes courage. So many people are stubborn and stick with one way of thinking.

[@sidescrollin]

jenn cunningham You people are so tiring. You THINK you understand dominance theory and end up just getting angry and punishing your dogs, more or less attacking them. Then you go on to claim that it doesn't work and the idea as a whole is shitty just because you didn't actually understand it.

[@plasterdbastard]

Ian Mcdowell No. We understand it. The people that get upset and punish their dogs are the machismo idiots that project their human concepts onto their canine companions and then ignore the 70 years of progress in animal behaviourism and training that we've made since the German training methods you advocate were first imagined by a disgruntled German army officer who almost certainly suffered from ED. Dominance theory works, sure. The problem is that it only works to curb the behaviour's manifestation, and doesn't work to address the causes of the behaviour. That's not to mention the fact that we know that it causes severe stress in dogs and in many cases will cause the dog to become a volcano waiting to explode (often injuring someone). The other issue is that 99% of trainers advocating for dominance theory don't understand it and the prescribe ludicrous training techniques that *don't* work. If you want to train your dog with outdated methods that have been debunked and replaced with modern methods that harmonise your relationship with your dog, that's your own cross to carry.

[@noravahine3991]

when I read "For cerebus" at the end, I started crying... such a good documentary. We love you Dr. Yin and all the other positive reinforcement trainers. Dr. Yin, Rest in Peace

[@Spuishee]

I'm studying to be a veterinarian and everything we've learned so far about the topic correlates well to this video. It's a shame that the comments on this video are so diverse. Consider, negative reinforcement has indeed been scientifically proven not to deliver the same lasting results as positive reinforcement! Being dominant has nothing to do with training a dog or any animal for that part. Yes, It is very important to stay confident and assured when training or handling any animal but confidence and dominance are two different things. It’s important to differentiate between the two! A healthy, balanced animal will never instantly result to aggression, unless it's for self-defense. If we, as dominant trainers, instantly respond aggressively to something our dog/ or whatever animal does, the animals first understanding to this aggressiveness will always be: self-defense! Which sets off the 'fight' or 'flight' reaction. Notice that 'do what you mean' is nowhere in those options. The animal will not take that effort to 'think' about the trigger that set you off, and understand what you meant and "forgive" you for the stress, or look up to you because you ‘won’ or ‘were right’. This is simply because animals don't think like humans. Animals react. There are universal set ways of reaction: called instincts. An animals reaction to a bad situation, again, is: stress, (nor)adrenaline release in the brain, and initiating of the fight or flight response. An animals basic reaction to something good: dopamine release in the brain, resulting in a general good feeling (even associated to addiction!). That is simply science, it is the way nature is, it is constant. All animals also have varying degrees of memory, so that is also to be incorporated. We, humans, as a greatly evolved 'thinking' species, with our massive brain capacities, can (sometimes ;)) act beyond our instinctual reactions and actually THINK about the triggers that lead to these reactions. We know the basic 'goods' and 'bads' (ex: food/comfort, pain/stress) so we use them in training. It is our job to guide animals to a correct association of human interactions. Since more good experiences equals happier animals in general (just like us humans!), we should all just strive to use good triggers instead of bad ones to get an animal to do something. Being dominant, thus evoking a stress reaction, is a quick and easy way of training that might work. Being rewarding, whenever your animal does something right, and whenever it for chooses NOT to engage in bad behavior, might not be easy and time consuming, but will lead to more lasting effects (science!), more trust and happier animals, and don't we all want that? Like everything in life, it's the more difficult approach that makes it worth while. It's up to us if we decide to be selfish or not.

[@estercooney3155]

this should apply to children and how they are raised. i went through Corporal Punishment and psychological abuse. left me with heavy visible mental issies!

[@walshamite]

I would argue psychological abuse is often the most damaging. A simple smack if a kid does wrong, administered by a loving parent, is not a beating. And it's far different from being locked in a dark cellar or being told you were never wanted. or that you are useless. We employ a diverse repertoire of nuanced behaviours as humans, and need wisdom to know what works best and when to do it. I think the public (media) denouncing of a parent who slapped a kid in a moment of temper might undermine the family relationships, long term, in a far more erosive way than merely allowing we sometimes over react and moving on.

[@eleanorclub]

This film is such a gift. So well-made (including that wonderful score) and the reveal about the alpha dog fixation quite the stunner. Bittersweet, of course, too. Dr. Yin’s recall of training her first Boxer was heartbreaking and near palpable off the screen. And too #RIP Dr. Yin

[@lane-petcarechildcare3341]

Dr. Yin was and is such an inspiration in how I work with dogs. I love her raw honesty about mistakes she made and how she's learned and grown to virtually pioneer a new approach to dog training, based on compassion and with far better results. Thank you, Dr. Yin.

[@AdoptAPuppyToday]

I just found out last night about Dr. Sophia Yin. I'm still in shock and very saddened to hear about her death. This video, although short, properly and adequately sums up the need for awareness in the dog training world against inhumane, traditional training methods. I've been using Positive training with my dogs for about 6 years and because of the large amount of disinformation still floating around, I'm now, also, a dog trainer in training. I'm already working with people and their dogs and it's a joy to see the relief from caring pet parents when they realize how to work with their dogs based on trust, instead of of fear and pain. Great video!

[@starfishsaving]

Rest in peace, Dr. Yin. Thanks to you and to all of the other voices in this field of humane, scientific dog training. This is an incredibly well-made documentary; thank you Anchorhold/Tower Hill and Chad for sharing it with the world.

[@tonycruse3648]

RIP Sophia. I will miss your knowledge and passion for dog training.

[@jericaanne3268]

[@sienaamarie]

My favorite video!!! I share this with every family that my foster pitbulls go home with ❤️

[@vanessam.v2779]

thanks for shedding light on POSITIVE training which I think is so much better than PUNISHMENT training.

[@guirlandes3]

RIP Sophia Yin, who will always be remembered as a great and kind friend of dogs.

[@WaggersDogWorks]

Thank you so much for putting this out this, Chad. I have my training students watch this before we even begin doing any training. It's fantastic, and a great way to introduce those who don't understand the damage training based on the "dominance theory" to it, and to help them understand how focusing on rewarding behavior is not only effective, but safer- and results in truly building the bond between human and dog. Thank you!

[@cmontrie]

Good to hear that.

[@geeknerdwonk]

I have just learned of the exceptional Dr. Yin. I've only known of her existence and her work for the last hour, and I feel I knew her. Veterinarians commit suicide 4x more often as those in other professions. Something about the extraordinary empathy and humanity which draws one to this profession? With the rise in rescue efforts, there must be concomitant attention to "compassion fatigue" (veiled depression ??) which can affect those working in animal care.

[@aidaa5886]

I wish this had reached more people. I was caught up with Cesar M's tv show many years back at the height of his popularity, and remembered had come across an interview with the late Dr Sophia Yin. That interview gave me a much needed perspective, and I just lost interest in following CM. I just realised, he has his own channel now on KZbin with a strong following, and it made me remember THAT interview. My search led me to this documentary. Thank you.

[@theflyingdutchound1098]

Knowing what happened to Dr Yin, that introduction seems almost prophetic and I wonder how many people at that time knew she was suffering from depression. I pray she's found peace wherever she may be now. A true loss to the veterinarian profession and dog world indeed.

[@theflyingdutchound1098]

Agree there. I think we'd be doing a disservice to the animal by simply limiting ourselves to just one school of though. It's important that we understand that each dog is different and that the ultimate goal is to teach the animal a new set of behaviours. Whatever accomplishes that understanding efficiently while having a minimal negative impact on the dog's welfare is important. They say that the only thing dog trainers agree on is that they disagree on training which pretty much sums up the debate on the subject. It will go on, ad infinitum and the only way to end that debate is to have each dog speak to us in plain english how it would like to be taught. Having said that, may be there were other factors as well which got Dr Yin depressed eg. having to deal with pet owners who were irresponsible on a daily basis etc etc.

[@theflyingdutchound1098]

I'd like to see them proof a behaviour with just positive methods only. And that's why you don't see the all positive crowd in Schutzhund! I won't be surprised if they are vegan as well. Their nasty put downs and attacks on people just really turn people away from their cause lmao!! EDIT: Yeah Ellis is great. I'm a big fan of Ivan Balabanov as well!

[@theflyingdutchound1098]

I find youtube's flagging system to be broken considering that they have in the past banned people for deeds which were not remotely close to infringing any of their terms. Lol it's really sad how they're attempting to keep you quiet. Just agree to disagree and move on! You can't change everybody.

[@theflyingdutchound1098]

Not my dog. But it's a breed I intend to own once I'm financially stable. In the meantime I'll do lots of research on breed!

[@nuriac2480]

@@theflyingdutchound1098 I think it's because it takes longer and we want everything to go fast and see quick results. This approach requires the patience and time most people don't have but that is just my humble opinion

[@sherylbeamer7189]

I am new to Dr Yin and just purchased one of her books and am heartbroken to hear that such a gifted warm hearted animal lover left our earth far too soon. Thank you for sharing so much wisdom even after your passing. Your legacy continues. 🙏🏼

[@AshkenaziChristian]

I have the best dog in the world and all I've ever tried to teach him is LOVE.

[@AshkenaziChristian]

***** Your comment indicates you don't know what real, true love is.

[@pawsitivecultr]

This video is so so vital and needs to reach as many humans as possible. Reward based training has also been further developed to align with the dog's mental health and including more choice and consent from the dog. But the words by these renowned experts still hold true today.

[@VetTechCoach]

I miss her so much. I met her and had dinner with her once, she made me feel like her equal and I miss her very much. I always think about what we're all missing with her being gone.

[@beeawaregardens6596]

I am deeply grateful for the knowledge and wisdom offered in this video. Thank you to everyone involved.

[@fraumaca]

Thank you so much for upload this documentary

[@janemonks181]

A brilliant little video that says it all.

[@myswandog]

She is an amazing woman. Though she has passed her positive impact will keep her alive in our hearts and spirits.

[@rennie54]

Thank you so much to all who made this documentary film and who now have made it so readily available for viewing. Another reminder of the contribution the extraordinary Dr. Sophia Yin.

[@doggonek9concepts844]

Such a great loss, but Dr. Yin's work is timeless and carries on.

[@rpeyster]

Wonderful film. Great summary of the issues, and a great tribute to Dr. Yin. May she rest in peace.

[@TooTooDeep]

amazing documentary--saw this years ago. thanks so much for uploading this. I'll share this link :)

[@MrBetoTap]

Thanks for making this, i loved it, it was awesome!!!

[@jaimes1572]

So heart breaking. What a caring person, it breaks my heart she was in distress and so sad.... man 😔😢 so sad

[@Yoganflogan]

Thank you for this I've only just seen it and it's just as relevant today

[@coldwhitespring5004]

This film is so good!

[@HandyPetNannySantaRosa]

Beautiful!

[@edouardprest9703]

Thank you.

[@Splashstar216]

Science has already proven that positive reinforcement is better than negative reinforcement will ever be, it doesn't matter what species-- dog, horse, lion, human. It's sad that this even has to be debated upon. People need to open their eyes already. Cesar's training was based on techniques BEFORE science stepped in and said, "No, you're doing it completely wrong."

[@kingh8163]

Why is there so many dogs being put down then

[@germainrivard1589]

This video is a great reinforcer for my self-imposed professional and social mandate of developing tools for people to understand how animals behave and how to behave around them! Thanks to Dr. Yin, Dr. Horrowitz, Karen Pryor, and all the others for this great meditation!

[@LaneyandherGermanShepherds]

Thank you I really enjoyed this .

[@BonnieHess]

I want to say that "Don't Shoot the Dog" was required reading in an undergraduate psychology class. Not sure which class....it may have been behavior modification (this was in the 80s). Should be required reading for every psychology major! (as well as dog trainers, animal behaviorists, animal trainers, vets, groomers, etc)

[@janetrains83]

What a great film!

[@rosaartemisg5027]

Outstanding video!!

[@lynnettemoon1]

I have just viewed this video and value all the content, particularly the great differences between the Alpha principal and Positive Reinforcement. As well, it is important for everyone to be aware of the differences between wild wolf behaviour and domestic dogs. Yes, dogs have descended from wolves, but they don't occupy the same niche and have been modified over many years...to be domestically minded. Thank you.

[@Pepino_333]

Amazing video!

[@marcoaddaaedc2394]

Hi Chad, meaningful documentary and kindly dedicated to Sophia Yin. Please keep me posted if you are going to make other similar projects. All the very best. Marco

[@trainpawsitive]

Thank you very much for this video! Sharing this with my students and friends. By viewing this video, it will give you a better idea on behavior and training. You will become a better pet parent, communicator and educator! "Woofs"

[@lunamarroncamille1989]

Aah you are crying, it's okay I can imagine how hard that experience was for you best wishes peace love and light. 😊❤️💖

[@nickdaniel9699]

She’s not alive anymore

[@lunamarroncamille1989]

@@nickdaniel9699 yes I realized at the end of video, thanks.

[@Nse204]

Everyone who interacts with dogs should see this documentary.

[@kyndalyoung]

She started tearing up and so did I :( RIP, you beautiful soul.

[@johnotooledoggames2336]

Good video

[@lineymoss9608]

I'm finding these Alpha trainers really difficult to watch. Bless Dr. Spohia Yin.

[@msanniefan3195]

That white dog in the first video was obviously being choked. I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to sit there and allow that to happen

[@animalobsessed1]

14:19 That size estimation of 25lb is surprising. I've never heard it before. But it does actually make sense. It would explain why all our breeds, that are on par with gray wolves in size, have such short life spans and size related health issues, while the smaller dogs function so much better, and live so much longer. (Australian Cattle Dogs, Border Collies, Pitbulls, German Pinscher & Schnauzer)

[@volgawolfhounds741]

I breed wolfdogs. This is a priceless piece of information for my clientele. TYVM.

[@mytrainingvideos7480]

Beautiful film, beautiful music. Can you tell us who wrote and played it? It sounds like viola. Thank you.

[@cmontrie]

Hello. I'm glad you liked the film. The music is by Matthew Sowersby (www.matthewsowersby.com/) and Michael Coelho (www.nmyo.org/michael-coelho.html).

[@saintessa]

8:10 My first thought was that dogs instinct is as a member of a team (pack?) not a follower

[@dfinma]

2:35 Well if that ain't the Totten Pond Rd sign on Rte 218 in Waltham, MA...

[@saramations]

What years was Dr. Yin in dog class for training her boxer?

[@maddy4paws]

She was talking about when she was a grad student I think she was referring to her years after college and beginning veterinary school it's hard to say exactly but I think she's talking about the early 80s. Dog training really began to change in the early 2000s but even then most trainers were traditional I saw a big change around 2011 when I went to work at my local shelter. But in 19 97 the best book on the market on dogs and how to train dogs was considered to be how to be a dog's best friend by the monks of new ski which actually does have some good advice in it but it's mostly dominant based

[@allisterfraser4204]

I like this video every one in it said something that I think is right , I trained so many dogs in my life time I just wanted to say in all that time I never trained with food because like the women with the red hear said how far are you going to go with this kind of training ,what I,ve done is worked with some kind of toy off and on or just a pat on the head most of the dogs were puppy's , another thing when you talk about training your dog and when I talk about this it may not be the same thing because I don,t want a lot from my animal but what I do want takes a lot of time and work ,all I need is that he comes as soon as I call ,don,t go to far from me with out looking to see were I,m ,not to be told to sit when I stop , keep his eye,s on me when we walk together because all the things I teach him come,s with a hand sign so I can tell him things from far away like go left or right come stop lay sit it come,s in handy when you know your dog is going to be where you told him to stay even if he can,t see you or even if lots of people or dogs are around ,another thing that makes a really good dog that is being trained that you don,t work him to long, as he learns you work him less an less and then the play becomes learning as well , buy the way the dogs that I,ve trained were for protection that you could turn off or on at will or because the way the dog was trained if someone started to walk to you to hurt you the dog would see him coming before you did and the way this comes out in my dogs it,s just the love I give them and all the fun we have and all the things we do together I think a lot of the times people don,t know what the dog wants from them that would make him or her a really good dog if people wouldn,t allways do the same thing every time they go for a walk ,all I,m say-in is dogs love to feel like there working and if there not you got trouble , just one more thing to keep in mind at all times when you are training your dog this to me is the most important way to get what you want from your dog ,don,t yell or get mad know matter what your trying to teach because if you do the dog will not learn what you were trying to teach he may do something out of fear but not what you wanted there must be know fear on the dogs part don,t try to make him do something if you do it will hurt his spirit and he may never be the came again

[@descustedcupcake7266]

did that man with the beagle just hit the other dog? wtf

[@descustedcupcake7266]

some trainer he is 😐

[@KaregoAt]

I know right??? He caused that situation but decided to punish the dog. All that talk about being the Alfa and shit too, what an idiot. He probably has good intentions but not the right methods.

[@descustedcupcake7266]

+KaregoAt I agree I don't think id relises what he's doing so useing these methods as an easy way out. not only that but they did admit that they hanged the dog which will make it worse. if a dog is stressed out with this sort of training and then sees another dog walk by then a fight is bound to happen.

[@strangedog4761]

Does anyone know if "fair use... education" allows professional dog trainers to burn this to disc and give to clients for free?

[@cmontrie]

I definitely encourage you to use the film with your clients. -- Chad Montrie (Director, Tough Love)

[@walshamite]

People who can see discs can surely find a KZbin video, can they not? Why not email the link to this video or put it into your blog. Simples. What advantage is there to spoon-feeding clients? Better I think that they should view the range of videos here and figure out a conclusion, than be programmed into some "right way" of going forward. I learned behavioural principles (Skiiner, BC, OC etc) in the 70s, I had a great psychology teacher. We also learned of Gestalt and insight learning, cognitive principles etc. Over time and many dogs over 38 years I have used clicker +trats but also blended the stuff I find humane and effective, and corrected many of my own mistakes, but I don't eschew learning lessons from the way dogs teach their own young, the pups they correct but would die defending, as well as Prof Skinner's way. I am more impressed by the legacy videos of the elderly champion sheep dog trainer Ted Hope here on YT than I am by Zak George, who's seems to be on some kind of mental speed and always flogging something you don't need - expensive swimming aid for your mutt, anyone, or delivery service for your dog food? Political correctness is huge these days. Cruelty is always wrong, but mild correction isn't always abusive. e.g. the word No! means something generic (stop that and think what you're doing) to kids and dogs and can solve many issues quickly. If my dog is chewing the satnav cable or the piping off my recliner chair (she has done both) , a simple assertive "No" stops it and the dog remembers that mild lesson . I don't need to figure out some clicker routine for every issue in life. Anyone ever raised a child and not taught No! as a corrective word for a toddler? I doubt it very much.

[@Kraflyn]

your name is Doctor? O.o

[@MichaelMiller-rg6or]

I should mention that whenever someone tried to explain dominance theory to me, they NEVER ONCE suggested that I use pain reinforcement or hitting the dog to get it to comply. They said I needed to be its leader. I needed the dog to be confident enough in my judgement to do what I say. I was told that a dog acts dominant over its owner when it believes that the owner (or pack leader) is not competent in its eyes and it does so as a survival instinct. They suggested various methods of showing the dog who's boss, like refusing to pet him or play with him unless it was on your terms. They suggested always preceding your dog through the door. They suggested always eating before the dog. And they suggested making the dog understand that you are the source of the food. But they never said to hit the dog or hang the dog or do any of that ridiculous stuff. I don't know what dog training school the woman at the beginning of the video went to that actually told her to hang her dog, but what they were telling you to do was not dominance theory.

[@turkeyburglarjones6148]

***** I don't who explained it to you but they were probably trying not to scare you off. Things like "alpha rolling" and prong collars were born because of this outdated theory. Just go watch Cesar Millan, the most-known advocate for dominance theory. Even if you do not hit your dog, the majority of people who think dominance theory is true will use prong/choke/shock collars to accomplish their goals (or at the very least cause some sort of fear). Most who train this way do not use food as a reward, if they reward at all. I'm sure a few people who believe are truly humane about it, but to say it does not happen simply because one person said nothing about it is ignorant. The only only true submissive dog is one who is fearful, just look at body language. Calm dogs are not submissive nor dominant, as this is not a constant state, it is fluid. There is no hierarchy in the way people believe. This could explain a few things to you: www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha-Dogs_20416-1.html

[@sidescrollin]

TurkeyBurgler Jones No, that is just actually how it works. You are on the anti-dominance bandwagon that claims it is something that it is not. You are confusing disciplining your dog calmly with angrily attacking and punishing your dog, which doesn't work. Just because someone has done that and incorrectly thinks they are practicing dominance doesn't mean that is representative of the dominance theory. Go watch cesar milan? When does he attack and punish dogs? Most who train don't reward at all? Why do I need to reward my dog for not sitting on my couch if he isn't allowed? Why am I tricking him into thinking he will eventually get a treat rather than just teaching him he isn't allowed to be on the couch? Why do you think this involved angrily attacking my dog to get him off the couch?You people entirely misconstrue how this works and then go on to claim some other method is better, without understanding that you are the one that sucks at understanding what you need to be doing and the mindset you need to have. You move on to reward training and suddenly act patient and calm with your dog and then they better understand what they need to know. The problem isn't between the methods, the problem is people. Some people can't use positive reinforcement because the dog doesn't care about food, or because they have bad timing and reward bad behaviors, or because the dog is smart and realizes you don't have a treat, so there will be no reward. The same way some people have a shitty attitude and think practicing dominance means literally going around choking out dogs and yelling at them doesn't work. So some methods work for some people because people suck at utilizing other methods. You should understand that rather than misconstruing some other training method and claiming it is something that it is not. Michael Miller is spot on, no one was trying to scare him off, they just actually knew what they were talking about.

[@dandelion6514]

***** Yes, yes, yes! This is the most sensible thing I've read in a long time. The nail was well and truly hit. From 31:00 in the video, what Sophia Yin describes so perfectly is "proper" dominance theory.

[@turkeyburglarjones6148]

Ian Mcdowell "Go watch cesar milan? When does he attack and punish dogs?" I have and if you truly believe he never punishes or attacks any dog then I cannot have an intelligent "conversation " with you. I believe you confuse leadership with dominance, they are not one in the same. Dominance is fluid, it only exists when they are fighting for resources. There is no other time. You cannot have "calm submission or dominance" they are not a constant state of mind. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but rather it is not how most people believe it to be. You CAN calmly correct you dog, advocates of positive reinforcement do all the time. It's called negative punishment. I doubt you know what the four quadrants of learning or how to apply them if you don't know this. I feel that I am more educated on this subject than you, considering I have gone to college to learn dog behavior. Sophia herself and many other people who have educated themselves all say the same on dominance. So why is it that only "self-taught" dog trainers and the average pet owner are the ones who still believe and practice dominance theory?\

[@sidescrollin]

Cesar has to regularly tell clients to not be mad and not punish the dog, that is not what is going on. You clearly are so overly sensitive that you feel even remotely touching a dog is horrible abuse. The first one that comes to mind is an episodes where a dog in the UK is going nuts over horses. He calmly lets the dog get near the horses and bark all her wants, and gives the dog treats near the horses for positive association. The owner even asks him how he is so calm, isn't mad at the dog, isn't punishing it, etc. You are regurgitating brainwashed garbage that you have thought little about to me. I don't even need to argue any of your points because you clearly don't even understand the points of discussion to begin with.

[@MariaPerez-js7bz]

Dí dedito abajo porque no hablo inglés. No entendí.

[@pamelamiller3480]

What to do with an adopted Pitbull that attacks other dogs and cats? The dog has to be walked and nothing has worked yet.

[@kasiaxvx1387]

You need a dog trainer who specializes and behavior adjustment training. You should probably consult a vet behaviorist.

[@kyyvrdr5320]

This all sounds great, but what do you do when you have a dog who has no interest in the reward? My dog will be out in the yard eating plants. He will refuse to come to me, even with the promise of treats or toys. He likes jumping up on the kitchen counter and nothing I do will dissuade him from that. So, I end up with a dog who at 2 years old needs to be brought outside on a leash every time he needs to go, and a kitchen that has baby gates to prevent him from going in. Not an idea situation and nothing I saw here seems like it would help with that.

[@BeastMasterNeil]

This isn't a video on how to train your dog. There are lots available though, from people like Zak George and Emily Larlham. Really though, it sounds like you need to hire a trainer.

[@headphonic8]

Get Dr. Sophia Yin's (the woman in this video) book called "How to Behave so your Dog Behaves". It's a training book that will explain training methods. It's easily applicable to different types of behaviors so that you may teach them. And honestly, some dogs need a leash every time they go out. That isn't a bad thing if it prevents unwanted behavior. What is bad, is that your "come" command needs work.

[@maddy4paws]

Get y higher value rewards. Work on training when it's been awhile since the last time your dog ate

[@theawkwardcurrypot9556]

4:00 I lost it in, "in AMERICA ''

[@aj755account]

So what do you do when a aggressive dog is biting another dog or person? Just let it do it till it stops and calms down, then give it a treat? What do you do when a dog is not food motivated? How do you deal with a dog who is possessive over food and attacks?

[@turkeyburglarjones6148]

aj755account Why would you give it a treat? Obviously you break off the fight since you failed somewhere along the line and let the dog feel like biting was the only option. You go back MANY steps and work just under its threshold. Aggressive dogs are fearful and insecure, no dog seriously attacks for any other reason. Many dogs aren't food motivated, it's up to you to find what motivates them. Some dogs like to play, some walks, some meeting other dogs. It even depends on the situation, often you just need a REALLY high value treat, and if they won't take that you move back steps until they do and work your way up. For particular dogs the reward could even be getting away from the dogs/people it is so fearful of that it feels it must bite them. Dogs who are food possessive are not being dominant, they are insecure and must be shown you are not there to take it away. The key is working under the threshold, once again. If the dog attacks then you too it too fast too soon. To be a positive trainer you have to be intelligent and creative. You truly must understand all four quadrants of training (positive reinforcement/punishment and negative reinforcement/punishment) and have excellent timing. It makes literally zero sense to give a dog a treat for calming down after it bit someone, the deed is already done. YOU failed if that happens. You ignore what happened because they are reacting from fear and punishing a highly aroused dog is going to cause even more aggressive . If you decided to wait until the dog calmed down then it would be too long for the dog to make the connection. Most of all positive training requires you to use your brain. Believing the dominance theory allows people to blame the dog instead of themselves.

[@sidescrollin]

TurkeyBurgler Jones " must be shown you are not there to take it away." So if what you are saying is true any dog would immediately become aggressive if I DID take the food away. Have had dozens of dogs who aren't food aggressive, and the entire POINT in this training is so that you can take food away from them. When they are just eating their food, who really cares? Well, I suppose it means I can pick the food up if I didn't know my wife had already fed the dog, but more importantly it means I can take food away if the dog picks it up off the grounds or isn't well trained and takes it off a plate or something. The point is precisely that you can take it away, not to convince the dog you never will. Also, to comment on the regurgitated "you have to find what they like." Treats work because they are immediate, if the dog responds to play as you say, you can't stop in the middle of an action and suddenly begin playing, it takes way to much time and no connection could possibly be made there. Believing in dominance theory allows people to blame themselves rather than the dog. Dogs have innate ways of communicating that people have to come to understand. The comments made in this video and on other sites like Sophia Yin's twist the definition of dominance theory into something it isn't. An example in this video is her getting angry and being told to hold the dog until it passes out. She is the one misconstruing dominance theory, the "definition" she is giving is incorrect, so it is fine to disagree with it, but it isn't fine to use it to represent the actual thing. Being angry rather than calm will get youno where, and it means you end up punishing your dog rather than disciplining it, something it can't understand. Most of the time "punishments" come off as attacks that just make the dog fearful or aggressive. You people make tons and tons of incorrect statements and false claims and then claim your ideals are better but get mad when someone tells you that you are "rewarding bad behavior." It is the exact same b$ and I am constantly surprised that you ironically complain about it and still do it at the same time.

[@turkeyburglarjones6148]

Ian Mcdowell What the hell are you talking about? I'm not even going to read past your first paragraph. Are all dogs 100% the same to you? Yes, a dog has a possibility to turn aggressive if you consistently take food away from it, but that doesn't mean every dog will. Once again, what?

[@sidescrollin]

"what are you talking about" "i didn't read your paragraph" How do you not get it lol? You don't get it, but acknowledge you didn't even read it? How can you possibly get something you didn't read? Of course your don't understand. I'm not going to bother arguing with someone who won't even read my responses, there is zero point.

[@turkeyburglarjones6148]

Ian Mcdowell Because the first sentence makes zero sense. None at all. "So if what you are saying is true any dog would immediately become aggressive if I DID take the food away" Like I said, are all dogs the same to you?

[@mattr4379]

Everytime I hear the term Alpha Male I cringe

[@rtornellort]

04:55

[@stephaniehuye4742]

Way back in college, I had a psyc teacher say, (it was in the 80's, so yes, bad delivery) "Ladies, treat your husbands like children and your children like dogs." I've trained my dog, children and husband using the same techniques from Psychology class.

[@K9Intelligentsia]

This video certainly qualifies as an epicenter of misinformation based in all of the best intentions

[@MrA1582000]

Such a loss.

[@Jefferdaughter]

It sounds like the expert speaking at around 11:00 has never seen the many documentaries of wild wolves. Anyone with access to KZbin can watch and see just how 'sweet and polite' wolves are to each other, especially regarding boundaries, respect, and access to food. Thinking logically, there would be much less competition for food in a captive situation than in the wild. Adequate water and shelter are also provided. So there should be much less competition among captive wolves.

[@SteveB357]

What about when you haven't got time? When a dog is going to be destroyed unless there is almost immediate behavioral modification?

[@sidescrollin]

Orlando Pockets the same way angrily punishing a dog is not the same as teaching it manners and discipline, it is amazing how ironic it is that you are can be aware that something done the wrong way isn't representative of that method as a whole, but only for some things. You people that got angry and hit your dog and believe that you were showing dominance are morons that don't understand anything about pack mentality and go on to make false statements about how it works and twist words, all the while getting upset when someone does the same for your method of training.

[@nickdaniel9699]

Here’s what I think: it’s a mixture of dominance and love, but in a way thats analogous to parenting. You’re a parent, but a parent of a domesticated animal. Be hard or stern when you must, but at all times love your dog. There should always be a lesson, a reason for your actions if it’s not just loving them because they’re your pet and a part of your family. I mean what’s the point of having one if you don’t love them? I don’t see a point of being domineering for the entirety of the dogs life. Once it’s learned you’re in charge in the beginning (which is why I think you should always get a dog when they’re a pup), there’s no need to assert that anymore, especially if they know and they listen. If they step out of line be a good parent or owner (whatever title floats your boat)and show them, teach them you do not approve but also always reward the good things. There should be more rewards than scoldings as your pup grows older, and if that’s not the case you’re not doing something right. Also, at the end of the day they’re animals, they’re carnal, they’re raw and deep down after all those years of breeding and domestication there’s still that bit of wild in them. So at the end of day keep that in mind but also give them room to be an animal too, lest you create the problems you’ll try to fix later down the road. I don’t know, I just own a husky and this is mostly my opinion because it has worked for me.

[@maddy4paws]

Point is you don't need to assert with the dog that you are in charge that's an abstract concept that the dog doesn't even understand. You have to teach the dog what you need him to do. By giving him cues and waiting for the behavior you want or shaping the behavior you need and ignoring the behaviors you don't like even walking away. And if you're having a big problem with a dog you manage the dog. Here's another point that she's making dogs do things we don't want them to do because they're trying to get something they want. And if they get a reward that's something that they like they'll keep doing it. So we have to extinguish the reward. But more importantly they're not doing what they want because they want a higher rank they're doing it because they have needs and they're trying to meet them. It's up to us to teach them how to live with us. Yes you're a parent you provide and you teach. But a good parent rarely punishes and usually punishes because they're at the end of their rope and they don't know what to do. Then they shake their heads and realize that the kids still doesn't really know what to do and that they're just a kid and they start all over again with management and teaching. Dominance has nothing to do with dog training Justice it has nothing to do with wolves. Wolves offer submission to older wolves as a way to say I get it I get that you're in charge the older wolf never forces the younger dog in submission the younger wolf offers it that's actually shown in the film. Peace out

[@Tom-bl4rh]

What about an "invisible fence" for the yard? That is clearly punishment/negative reinforcement for behavior - don't go beyond this point or you might get hit and killed or worse by a car going past on the street.

[@reachinghigher4259]

There's a huge difference between discipline and brutality. Beating a dog doesn't make sense. You don't have to beat one up to get it to stop a negative behavior. It might not even know it's doing something you consider wrong. Give the dog a chance to correct itself by giving it the opportunity to do the RIGHT behavior and reward THAT. Positive reinforcement works 100x better than punishments. You don't even need treats. Think about how someone can compliment you and make you feel good...dogs work the same way. Make them happy when they make you happy, and they'll keep on doing that. A stable dog is a sign of a stable person. You're a team, not a master/slave. Caesar Milan's tactics work because that's exactly what he does. When he walks into a situation with a really fucked up dog, he has to give punishments initially, and even then, he's not being cruel. He's poking them, getting their attention, getting them to stop doing what bad thing they're doing, and then exposing them to the right behaviors so they learn. Praising those good behaviors by having a good time is how it works. When you're both happy, you're both calm. The 'calm assertive' behavior is just the small notice to the dog that you, as the provider, are still top of the list, but your dog isn't BENEATH you so much as following you in a side-kick capacity. Your dog should never be looked on as a piece of barking furniture. I do this same sort of thing with one of my special needs cats. He has Pica and eats non-food items, specifically cloth. It makes no sense to punish him for eating cloth because he can't help it. So, instead of focusing on negative reinforcement, I set myself up so that he doesn't have the opportunity to eat my clothes/towels/bed sheets/etc. Over time, because he doesn't have the chance to indulge his unfortunate and unhealthy urges, I can reintroduce cloth items to the environment without worry that he'll eat it. He may try, but I'll remove the item. I don't punish him. He does something wrong so I just take away the thing that's facilitating that behavior.

[@Jefferdaughter]

Many of the people who have problems with their dogs are people who don't just have a dog as a family member, but treat the dog as though it is not the dog member of the family, but a human. Or 'higher' than the humans, as many households have rules, boundaries, and limitations for the human members of the family - but few or no rules that are enforced for the dogs. Whether we see dogs as almost a child in a dog suit, or a 'fur angel', this is just not fair to the dog. Dogs can be stressed by trying to fill a role in a family of being something they are not - a child substitute, or even a spouse substitute. If we really love our dogs, won't we love our dogs AS dogs?

[@maddy4paws]

Think the point is that when people start overthinking they start thinking they have to treat the dog as something lesser than because they are a dog. The dog just not exist to be under your thumb or to constantly prove that it will do whatever you want every second of the day. I always cringe when I see that guy making his dog sit over and over again it's totally unnecessary. Dogs should sit to ask for things as a way of saying please that's a way of communicating with us so we train for that. But they shouldn't constantly have to say just because that's what I want. Dogs are symbiotic with us they are good at being companions and we are their guardians and that in essence is our relationship. Depending on their skills and talents they are useful companions they bark when someone is at the door, they chase geese off of lawns, they do moles out of yards or even capture and destroy rats depending on the breed. I had a corgi and terrier mix who was an amazing mouser. There is nothing wrong with people who want to treat their dogs as children as long as they understand that they are also dogs and that their needs as dogs have to be met play exercise balance meals something good to chew on a bed to sleep on to be petted to know what to do in a house to be accepted to go out and go for a walk. I used to cringe when people called me my dog's mother or Mommy I really think of the dog as my companion and my friend and I am the dogs guardian because in this life there are things that I have to negotiate for the dog. If you've never read it or if you haven't read it since you're a child reread Island of the Blue dolphin. That was a truly symbiotic relationship between that young survivor and her dogs.

[@michaellevitt6252]

Like so many things in this world you got paid and it took a little while but the world proved you were stupid regardless

[@lunamarroncamille1989]

Helicoptoring very cruel

[@Jefferdaughter]

Apparently the people who put this video together, and several who were interviewed on it, are unaware that genetic analysis has led to the reclassification of the domestic dog as a wolf - the subspecies of wolf now scientifically recognized as Canis lupus familiaris. Other scientific research has shown that another Canis species could be domesticated within a human lifetime, through selecting only the calm and adaptable animals to breed. Documentation on these things are readily available.

[@g3ck031]

The statement is not that wolves can or can not become domesticated in a life span, but that dogs do not go back to being wolves when left alone in the wild. Also, Canis lupus familiaris or not, dogs have still been bred for thousands of years to be the most sociable possible. It doesn't change a fact about dominance hierarchy/alpha not applying to dogs.

[@vincef7487]

"If my dog wakes up and understand that I'm the boss, I'm the pack leader, he knows that HIS life is in order". All dog owners / dog parents should practice THIS!!! It's about helping your dog stay sane, not about you avoiding feeling uncomfortable.

[@car2nerr]

lets face it, we are still the boss. We are just becoming a kinder boss. We still hold the leash, tell them when they can eat, tell them where they can sleep, etc. We have to have clear commands and trade out unwanted behavior for preferred behavior. But there are times when you have to be the brick wall..

[@anthonybly]

I like the differences of opinions between the different trainers and the historical background on the "alpha dog" concept but, the definition of Operant Conditioning displayed is very one-sided. According to B.F. Skinner's definition, "Operant conditioning is a method of learning that occurs through rewards and punishments for behavior. Through operant conditioning, an individual makes an association between a particular behavior and a consequence (Skinner, 1938)." We need to be neutral in the presentation of facts. Operant Conditioning is not about rewarding and reinforcing but about adding and removing reinforcement or punishment. I prefer not to punish at all but it does have it's place in life but doesn't need to be a focal point in any training program. Let's not pretend that it doesn't exist or that it shouldn't exist because it does have its proper uses.

[@AliGhahreman]

all of this to say Cesar Millan is wrong???

[@saramations]

Pretty much lol I have issues with Milan, but not becuse of his views of there being structure... and I find it laughable how they do all of this to crap talk Milan.

[@bryanstark324]

Why not explore both sides of the theory rather than present a story that is biased against correcting the dogs bad behavior?

[@dancinglab]

+Bryan “Ironman” Stark: There is NO THEORY. Its a myth. Google it. I'm not going to write the entire myth. Briefly, it was based on a study in the 1940's about confined wolves. Dogs are not wolves. These wolves were not wild. Wild wolves exhibit different behavior. He did not portray the wolves' behavior accurately. Dogs do not have Alphas. Punishment only shuts your dog down. Dogs look happy because they are resilient, forgiving and want to please. Above all, even if you actually believed this was a useful method. ITS OLD! We know better, now. Research has been done on different methods. We now know that positive methods work for many reasons, not just because we don't hit our dogs. Punishing does not teach. It merely shows the dog how to avoid. Why punish when it is not necessary? What are the benefits of positive reinforcement methods? Don't know? Can't argue that your side is better.

[@bryanstark324]

dancinglab the theory in and of itself explains a lot of dog behavior, even if it is being sold by the positive only crowd as a lie. It's behavior patters you can observe on any wolf, or even dingo documentary. There IS a hierarchical structure in the canine kingdom. That being said, it doesn't mean that the positive only crowd doesn't have good methods to offer. Basically, operational conditioning which includes, both giving rewards, taking away rewards, removing pressure, and inflicting pressure (not kicking or hitting your dog) are all valid scientifically proven methods of behavior modification. The problem with your positive only approach is that you only give average dog owners 2 of the 4 tools and you really never explain those tools very well in the first place. if the dog owner, can only reward the dog, or ignore the dog, then that dog will and does develop dominant behaviors because of reinforcement of his feelings of entitlement. Personally, I prefer using a marker method of conditioning rather than the typical clicker. I say yes and give a treat when the dog does what I ask, I say NOPE when he's close but not close enough to what I ask, and he can try again. I say NO when he does an unacceptable behavior such as aggression. I say CHHUT! when he's getting too close to something I want him to stay away from. You should read a lot of Gary Wilkes articles. He was the original clicker trainer and transitioned marine mammal training into the canine world. He also uses a "bonker" which is a harmless towel wrapped up to bonk the dog. Yes, it sounds cruel, but in fact it works for dogs that need to have an experience that is intolerable. Dogs learn to tolerate not getting a treat, because the owner will always over feed him anyway. Dogs learn to tolerate getting yelled at. They can tolerate a lot of things. So you really need to learn what they CAN NOT tolerate and use that to communicate what is intolerable behavior. Anyway, I wish the best of luck to you if you are a professional dog trainer. I hope you are successful, but you should learn to understand all methods of dog training and not humanize everything. These methods have existed for thousands of years. "Positive only" training is relatively new and still has a lot of deficiencies.

[@AMurphySharp]

The Dog Whisperer would not exist if there wasn’t so many people with problem(ed) dogs. Dogs with behavioral issues that THEY created!!! People mess up their dogs, and then The Dog Whisperer is needed. Additionally, in the animal kingdom, they don’t do any gentle handling of dogs. People need to stop with these narratives, because we think it’s cruel, as human beings doesn’t change the nature of animals, and they are not gentle. It’s The Dog Whisper or death for a lot of these dogs!!!

[@Lookie2020]

a medical doctor (vet) who had to go such long way to understand BASIC canine pack- structure 101 and made a video out of it is............priceless. one dimensional book worm:-)

[@jonknee5095]

If you want a dog to fetch the newspaper, use Positive method. If dog is biting people and other dogs, do what Cesar does!

[@agilityscottie]

learning is learning - does not matter what kind of behavior you want to change. Learning biology shows clearly that it's the most successful way to train is nonaversive. Especially if a dog is emotionally over the threshold - then aversive methods will just shut down the behavior but don't change the emotions for the better. Only presenting a stimuli in a lower itensity, reward relaxation and alternative behavior and increase stimuli stepwise will change the emotions for the better

[@dreamingrightnow1174]

I think it's inaccurate and unfair to have clips of what looks like Ceasor Milan torturing dogs as an illustration of cruelty. The stories that follow in which dogs are "helicoptored" and then clamped between the knees and beaten are thing Ceasar Milan would never do. Viewers of this documentary might not realize that Milan is not primarily a trainer, that's not his goal; he describes himself as a rehabilitator, which, in some cases has to happen before the dog is trainable. He works with dogs that are so aggressive, they are in danger of being put down and with owners that are unwittingly surrendering to and reinforcing these behaviors. So I think it would be a clearer picture if one considers this framework in evaluating his techniques. I apreciate the view, for the most part expressed in your doc, especially the discussions of dog behavior, which is facinating. The points about alphas, seems a bit like splitting hairs. I believe the concept has been around a long time, originating with animal behaviorists long before being applied to dogs. I'm not sure it matters if you believe your dog is challenging you because it's a primal vestage or because you may have inadverdantly rewarded him for it. It seems to me a bit of both, but either way, the positive reward system is an effective and humane way to shape behavior. Those techniques however won't help adult dogs with sever, persistent, aggression toward humans and animals.

[@Bianca_Arlette]

+Dreamingrightnow Most force free trainers work with dogs of the same level of aggression as Millan does in his show and they manage to achieve amazing results without the use of force and intimidation. The idea that positive reinforcement as well as desensitization and counter-conditioning cannot work with severe aggression is a misconception, promoted by force trainers like CM, but it is very false. Force free training actually teaches dogs new and wanted behaviours, it alleviates fears while CM's methods simply suppress the unwanted behaviours. The dogs do not learn anything new or positive. I would suggest you join groups like "Beyond Cesar Millan" or "Modern Dog Training and Behaviour Advice" on Facebook. There you can meet many crossover trainers, who used to use methods like CM's but learned that they could achieve much better and more stable results if they worked without force and intimidation.

[@dreamingrightnow1174]

Bianca Arlette I hear you saying the techniques would work on dogs with sever aggression, but I would really have to see it. I have seen many tapes of dogs exhibiting persistently aggressive behavior and only very few of them did Caesar Milan employ force. Most often he would sit in the room with the dog, or sit with his back to the dog in close quarters and wait him out. I wouldn't describe him as intimidating dogs either. The impression I get from you is that you've seen clips of extreme cases of Caesar Milan, and from that have extrapolated a false picture. Maybe you should watch 100 videos and then decide. As I said, positive reinforcement is a great training method, but that doesn't mean other methods for differing situations is wrong.

[@Bianca_Arlette]

Dreamingrightnow He constantly moves into the dogs' space, he alpha rolls them, he kicks them, etc. Why do you think that I never watched his videos? Watching his videos was what taught me how wrong his methods are. Using forceful methods for training is NEVER necessary and even less advisable when aggression is involved.

[@dreamingrightnow1174]

He moves toward a dog who is snarling, when the aggression stops, he stops. Nothing wrong with what you call an alpha roll, as a matter of fact, he puts the dog in the position and quickly backs up and lets the dog wait there; and keep in mind, this is a dog who was biting people, not because he peed on the floor or ate a sock. Please send me a link to CM kicking a dog. If it happened, I didn't see it, so show me. I'm surprised that you've seen the videos, I assumed you interspersed clips of Milan working with a snarling, snapping dog with other people helircoptering a dog and generally abusing them out of ignorance. Apparently, you purposely implied that Milan endorses those techniques. Shame on you. I wonder if you're equally knowledgeable about slander laws.

[@rcannon100]

+Bianca Arlette Sorry I am confused. If you have never watched his videos, how do you know what he does?

[@animaljustice7774]

Shame on you lady for abusing the dog that you had! You Asians need to learn compassion!!!

[@skybluskyblueify]

This is not a pleasant meditation. The descriptions and videos of cruelty are unbearable for empathetic people. Of course such demonstrations and data are needed for the story to unfold. It is just that the cruelty portions last longer than needed to get the points across in my estimation.

[@juan3268]

So, at 31:20 you are not letting the dog go anywhere? How? If you put pressure on the leash then you have already abused the animal and thus this method wont work. I agree with this video but its just a jumping mess and everyone is talking about something different. Simply put, dogs want a leader, someone to work for. for instance, if you think your dog is playing with you by going after the ball and bringing it back, you are wrong. That is one of the jobs you give him. You throw it, he retrieves, you reward him. Boom you are the alpha or master. I understand where the assumption of alpha and abuse comes from, but you have to realize that alpha and abuse are two separate subjects and should not be related to one another.

[@turkeyburglarjones6148]

juan3268 lol I hope you aren't serious

[@sidescrollin]

juan3268 People that are obsessive over positive reinforcement try to misconstrue dominance theory to make themselves look better. Being angry and punishing your dog is not practicing dominance, it is just attacking. It is something completely different from calmly disciplining your dog and showing it the rules. The spot at 31:20 you mentioned is funny because she is basically talking about doing what you would do if you "practiced being a pack leader," she asserts that she makes sure he knows he isn't going anywhere. The only difference is she gives the dog a treat at some point. I agree with you on the job thing, but not necessarily that it is as connected to the alpha theory. Dogs have energy and will do work, they enjoy it, the love having jobs, and having excess energy is why so many misbehave. I think people who don't get it and are obsessed with treats simply don't understand that they act calmly and patiently when they use treats, they give power to the treat, and they feel confident when the dog does what they want. They are often times practicing dominance theory because they end up in the correct mindset, but because they are so focused on the treat and this anti-alpha theory that surrounds using positive reinforcement, they don't realize how their own behavior is actually changing. Anyone that claims dominance theory involves "rituals" of regularly dominating your dog or punishing them is being retarded. Being a leader is showing all the dominance you need, expecting them to do things, and following through because you have the confidence allowed by practice with treats, is being a pack leader. Training them with treats to walk the way you want them to on a leash, still means you are the one in charge of where you are going, you are still being the pack leader.

[@dandelion6514]

Ian Mcdowell Absolutely, well put. It's just a stupid notion that dominance is all about aggression and abuse. That can never be dominance because the energy is unbalanced and no dog would follow that. Calm, confident leadership everytime.

[@turkeyburglarjones6148]

Steven Elliott You can't argue about something you don't understand. No one said dominance is abuse by the way. In case you didn't notice, two animals fighting over a recourse usually involves aggression in some form. You know. The only time dominance/submission occurs. Stop being passive-aggressive.

[@dancinglab]

+juan3268 Please read what I just wrote to Bryan above. Don't have the energy for you, also.

[@kayemjay]

so horrid and triggering. so depressing.