Tour Climbing Records are being crushed | Tour De France 2024 Stage 15 | JB2

Outside of the G.C. battle in this years Tour we are not only seeing the top 2-3 riders breaking records up climbs, but even up to 10-13 riders breaking records. Johan also breaks down what Tadej Pogacar has accomplished just this season and his win percentage when he pins on numbers.
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[@peehi2]

Better than the other show with Lance and George! A lot more objective and interesting

[@mariosimas]

The other show is getting a little to much comical.

[@yvest3094]

the other show has much more product plugging.....but love Sir Wigo

[@J-cz7yv]

@@yvest3094so much more😅

[@PelicanIslandLabs]

This 2 person format is perfect! WAY too many competing/distracting interactions on the other show.

[@markcapilitan3484]

They're different shows! This is a lot more analytical, LA's stage breakdown could be summed up in about 15 mins, the rest is entertainment!

[@alwaysglamorous8941]

Johan you are the guru of cycling ! So knowledgeable! ❤

[@kevinc9668]

Really enjoy Johan's insight and JB's ability to guide the conversation.

[@cypriano8763]

johan is the man when it comes to understanding pro cycling and tactics

[@nazgulzg]

The same thing Visma did last year against Pog. Ride every stage ridiculously hard trying to put as many TSS to your oppenent without allowing any time for recovery because your opponent CTL is bellow CTL needed for TDF (injury related - Pog 2023, Jonas 2024). Without the "base" and high CTL there is impossible to survive 2 weeks (let alone 3 weeks) if the tempo is high every stage.

[@Moishe555]

i have no idea what you said haha I am still learning

[@luigibirillo6629]

Replace CTL with "training load" and replace put as many TSS to your opponent with "try to fatigue your opponent"

[@BCERTA]

Amen! someone finally puts it into writing! Thats what everyone forget.. ohh he only broke his wrist.. :)

[@Thun777]

For Jonas it was all or nothing, he had to try if he wanted to win, but this yeah Pog is just stronger

[@andrejbogataj6027]

If you look at swimming world record progression and athletics. They will also (like for cycling) say, but yes, there is new methods of training, new nutrition methods, new technology, new swimsuits, new track field materials, etc but their records have gone in the last 26+ yrs (since Pantani record) by: - swimming 1500 m (30 yrs) -> 10 seconds, equals to 1% (and the new record holder was banned later in his career) - running 10000m (26 yrs) -> 11 seconds, equals to 0.7% - marathon (26 yrs), which lasts 2hrs -> 5.5 minutes, equals to 4% (unfortunally the new record holder is dead) - Pogacar Plateau de Beille climb -> 3.5 minutes, equals to 8% (24 hours after the history breaking climbing performance in stage 14)

[@John-nx3dy]

WOW great analysis of Jonas’ situation by Johan. Rest of this show FANTASTIC! Great option for straightforward comments without the BS.

[@Pomi3001]

This is so much better than The Move clowns..

[@brolland07]

I just wish Johan talked as much shit here as he does on Twitter🤣

[@carlosgaspar8447]

the move is over produced.

[@Simon-xi8tb]

Agree.

[@ragweedmakesmesneeze]

I mean, I like SOME of the clowning over there, but it's been a while since I've actually listened to a whole show of theirs.

[@jkorbel]

It’s unlistenable with the constant promotions

[@EITiga]

These two had a good conversation chemistry. Keep this 🫡

[@yvest3094]

Johan votre lecture de la course est tellement juste....super intéressant Merci!

[@Chiller11]

In my profession I’ve treated a lot of multi trauma from road accidents etc. The healing process of mammalian tissues is logarithmic. There is an initial lag phase of a couple days followed by a really rapid increase in healing for the first 2 to 6 weeks depending on the tissues involved ie muscle, skin, bone etc. After the initial rapid phase gains in tissue strength and function continue healing at a slower pace for months. All that to say Jonas’ body is still healing from his injuries. Not only that but humans detrain really quickly so he lost a ton of conditioning while he was idle after his crash. He is stressing that healing detrained body enormously. It can’t be expected to perform as if the injury did not occur. He’s performing at a level higher than the entire rest of the field which is stunning. It’s just that Tadej is performing two or three levels higher. They are both generational talents. It will be fascinating to follow this rivalry for years to come when they both are at 100%.

[@maxkula3522]

He is lucky to come back..Bernal hasn't been the same since his accident 😢😢😢

[@5508Vanderdekken]

Finally, someone who actually knows what it means when they say “Jonas is not at 100%”

[@systemicchaos3921]

Pog fanboys are really desperate to state JV is 100 for some reason instead of just enjoying the rivalry and understanding where each rider is at. Last year pog wasn't at 100 but probably closer as his injury wasn't as serious

[@brucegelman5582]

Exactly.Hopefully next year everyone is at full strength.

[@johnnycab8986]

Doesn't matter since Vingegaad said today was his highest power output for 40 min ever.

[@user-cc6wn6rl3j]

Johan is trying so hard to make us believe 10% improvements in one year are possible without extra help. I still enjoy listening to the show and watching cycling, but this is hilarious sometimes.

[@DBxCooper]

Johan knows exactly what’s going on. But he also knows exactly how it will go down by saying it. Just be glad that you know and let the people who still want to believe in Santa Claus believe it.

[@lenarcher6997]

Johann just stated how amazing these records are and left it up to listeners to draw their conclusions. I have concluded that there’s something unusual about those rides.

[@Patrick_Runnels]

10% on what? Pogi has openly stated that his form during the tour last year wasn't that great; then he got a new coach and spent a year training specifically for long climbs in the high mountains and lost weight. How is Jonas 2 months out of the hospital setting the second best ever climb not equally suspicious if that's the case. Truth is we don't truly ever know these guys numbers. Vista is specifically very intentional about sandbagging and Pogi has been known to do the same.

[@user-cc6wn6rl3j]

@@Patrick_Runnels never said Jonas wasn't suspicious as well. I enjoy the show anyways.

[@markussaaby1265]

@@Patrick_Runnels do you really think that the coach he had before would be better or worse to train pogi og jonas you have to be the best at what you do they dont just get bad coaching at that lvl its impossible its just another excuse

[@n.m4497]

Great show! Now I know to watch this recap only

[@TimArmstrong98]

You’re missing out still!

[@davide9920]

Johan analysis more entertaining than the stage itself

[@user-uz7ub4gr6q]

Pogi was also paced up the clime by Jonas for about 5k...

[@EvolutionWar]

Its almost like they are both equally drugged up in their gills but one of them were seriously injured earlier this year. Im getting deja vu from Lance Armstrong coming back after cancer xD.

[@davide9920]

Very entertaining insightful discussion by Johan as always

[@mickelkobeck7376]

LOL, JB 2 is way better to watch...TRUTHFUL reporting rather than Jonas fanboi crap from lance/george/SIR

[@user-qj1jg1bt1z]

Especially from George

[@zyxelsoma1691]

Yea, they keep saying over and over again Jonas has crashed and he is not 100% and so on..after stage today Jonas said he never performed better than today. He is best he ever was in terms of output. Tadej is better, simple as that. Probably the best performance for Tadej also, and in history of cycling.

[@Chiller11]

Yes I learn a bunch from Johan and JB is a good moderator. The Move is like 50% commercials and the discussions are really not that interesting.

[@drazenstefanovic6122]

I just leave that Lance style egoistic doped podcast…golf playing ah

[@maxkula3522]

I actually haven't watched the move this year. Made a decision from last tour that I will only watch this one 😂😂

[@problem40]

One of the masseurs from the caravan told the Slovenian media that they got the data from Jonas' training before the TdF and the numbers were better than last year... And Tadej told the Slovenian media after the stage that he saw that the speed and power of Jonas were falling during the attack, and he decided to attack.

[@TellusJD]

So they had a spy basicly, thats crazy.

[@problem40]

@@TellusJD who?

[@pedrotillegreen3809]

Wahoo

[@Plaguedoctor-mv2jj]

Yep, Dzalo is from Slovenia, he is masseur in Ineos, Geraints if i am not mistsken, he said that.

[@jesselobo3213]

I agree, I was wondering if they knew something we didn't. Perhaps they were holding back for this stage. Visma succeeded in blowing up their own team leaving Matteo to do some serious work. Then Jonas launched and as i watched, Pogi seemed unimpressed and sat on his wheel until Jonas started losing the initiative and the Pogi jumped, and the rest is now history.

[@wKFaded]

Jonas said it was his best day on a bike ever......still lost a min. He is definitely 100% all this he isn't 100% listen to what he says after the race. POG is just another level higher!

[@nigelcarreiro6630]

And the numbers back it up. Best climbing performance of his life and the 2nd best climbing performance of all-time! Incredible ride from Jonas and yet the fanboys on the other pod keep talking about him like he's pedaling with one leg lol

[@randalh409]

Exactly!

[@Chiller11]

Have to disagree boys. The human body just doesn’t heal and retrain that fast. His progress is remarkable but it’s not the same place as though the injuries didn’t happen. Additionally, you don’t ask an athlete what they feel like in the midst of a competition and expect an accurate answer. Johan @ 15:35.

[@wsmc723]

@@Chiller11 13 months ago, I suffered a grade 3 shoulder seperation, four broken ribs, a punctured lung and a fractured hip. I'm a regular Joe with no health insurance so after 24 hours in the hospital, they booted me. This was mid June in Phoenix Arizona. At two and a half weeks, I was riding my bike again. By the end of July, after 31 strait days of 115 degrees or higher temps, I was back to my best level. Granted, I'm just a regular club rider and I have no way to relate to what it takes to do the tour, but if I can recover that fast all on my own, then I'd have to imagine Jonas, with the best of everything at his disposal, is recovered. Like these guys are all pointing out, he put up the best numbers of his life.....ever! It just turns out that today, there was one dude better.

[@5508Vanderdekken]

@@wsmc723your experience is pretty meaningless tbh. You didn’t even mention spending over a week in the icu so it’s not even comparable on any level

[@TellusJD]

Honestly the last 2 days cannot be explained by training better coaches and better nutrition. Pogacar just did the highest watts on a long hc climb ever. And Jonas did arguable the second best at least the third best. This is up against records that has been untouchable due to the fact they were done on 5-8 years of experience with EPO. With no hematocrit limits. Im sorry Bjarne Riis at heutacam was the best HC climb, and his watts got beaten today. Pantanis alpe dhuez is significantly lower, again a completely untouchable record. Pogi 1 year ago couldnt get within 2 minutes of these records this year he beat the records. 8% improvement in one single year.

[@adamcurpier]

Must be the Ketone IQ! 😁

[@Gufolicious]

you sersiously have no clue about cycling man. the fact that you compare last years pog with this year shows it.

[@markussaaby1265]

Pogi last year could do 7 w/kg for 15 min on puy de dome this year he can do that for 39 min XD

[@Oscaraha]

He is still very young, and young riders can improve this much in a year (especially compared to last years TdF where he was underprepared due to classics season). That being said, its hard not to be suspicious, all though it seems to just be a question about time when tech, nutrition and science surpass the EPO-era. I really want Pog to be clean🤞

[@jonmeals]

@@Oscaraha don't let your wish for Pog to be clean blind you to the facts. Athletes at the very highest levels simply don't improve as much as Pog has, regardless of how young they are. If Pog was a 25 yr old amateur that had only been riding a few years, it makes sense. But once you reach the fitness levels all of these guys are at, they're lucky for 10-20w increases, not smashing records set by 90s dopers by 2 minutes, on back to back days!

[@cooldude.1811]

This year Pog is not only much stronger than he was last year - and I'm talking prior to his injury - but also seems to have overcome some of his vulnerabilities such as coping with the heat better and going into the red on a long, steep stage.

[@matthewobregon4803]

Johan is pleasant to listen to.

[@davidm7205]

My question for JB then is , what Watts/KG would it take for him to actually be suspicious ? Also , saying that top 10 riders today beat Lances time doesn’t prove it’s clean, that’s exactly what happened in the early 90s, suddenly everyone became monsters vs the prior generation

[@cypriano8763]

if you understand anything about pro cycling or pro sports, youd know peds are, always been and will for ever be part of the game. tadej isent doing anything different that the rest of the peleton. lets stop talking about doping and just enjoy the show

[@jonmeals]

@@cypriano8763 ignoring the problem isn't going to make it disappear, it's just going to get worse. Which may not matter to you if you think pro cyclists can make their own decisions about the health risks they're willing to take to win a bike race, but the bigger problem is the trickle down to teenagers that aren't mature enough to make such choices.

[@georgeelliott1045]

When there’s a general improvement in the performance of the top 10 guys, you can bet your ass there’s new stuff they are on..

[@davidm7205]

@@cypriano8763 it’s not about who’s doing it or not doing it, it’s that JB refuses to acknowledge the possibility that it may not be clean. Granted , he’s in a tough spot , if he calls out doping he looks like a hypocrite based on his history , but he also looks delusional by saying it’s absolutely clean

[@cypriano8763]

@@davidm7205 of course not one world tour pro is but, hey, thats all pro sports. Gotta entertain right

[@ruif68]

Almeida just paced himself to arrive 5th and gaining time on Carlos Rodriguez and Yates was not dropped by Matteo Jorgenson!!! Yates was with Tadej when Jonas attacked! What kind of analysis is that?!

[@user-bd9dp6dw6u]

They weren't dropped, but they were neutralized by Jorgenson. They were dropped by Remco. But Tadej didn't need them, as it turned out.

[@LennartvonEssen]

I'd like to head Johan Bruyneel's opinion whether Jonas Vingegaard of 2023 or Tadej Pogacar of 2024 would win in a Tour de France.

[@8332ak]

This show is, for us cyclist sooooo much interesting . Lance and George are become comics,

[@driver9337]

Lance and George understand cycling every bit as much as Johan Bruyneel does.

[@andredutoit8830]

"Better than the other show with Lance and George! A lot more objective and interesting". Amen! I agree 💯!

[@samsonm.m.5949]

I like how you always start by saying , “I’m gonna get my shot now. You also got yours” 😂😂😂

[@Trofinios]

I wonder what Johan REALLY thinks of Pog's (and Vinge's) performance on Plateau de Beille. Pog beating a doped Pantani with over 3 minutes on the climb. Some call it the greatest performance ever, 7 watts/kg for 40 min at the end of a 200k stage with 4800 altitude meters, absolute nutty numbers. Anyone who knows the history of the sport should be sceptical. Look at Pog's year: 80k solo win in Strade, complete destruction of the competiton in Catalunya and LBL, then winning the Giro with 10 minutes and 6 stage wins, and now complete domination at the tour. Always on a superhigh level, never a bad day, attacks and attacks. Last dude winning the giro-tour dobule in the same year was Pantani... Other who have tried since then have failed big time, Put Pog is on his way to do it while also crushing his rivals. And we know Marco Gianetti is the main guy at UAE. He was busted for doping and then later he was sport director for Saunier Duval with riders like Ricco, Cobo and Piepoli who all were caught doping. It raises suspicion at least. I know the defenders will say that he is a genetic freak, that nutrition has improved, training methods have advanced, etc... But he is way above everyone else and nutrition, new training methods, etc. is not exclusive to UAE. What's left then is that he is a genetic anomaly. Do we believe that?

[@jonmeals]

Not to mention the guys he's crushing are also beating the times of the 90s dopers. They're all doping but Pog's body is clearly benefiting from whatever drug(s) they're on better than anyone else's... which is why the argument, "since they're all doping, it's a fair & level playing field", is invalid. It's only fair if they're all clean.

[@timliscum2861]

Pogacar had a VAM of 1875 based on 39:58 and 1250 m

[@giovannidagostino4221]

1864

[@locs2645]

Thank you for an unbias recap! The Move is too bias in favor of Jonas and completely overlooking the dominance of Pogacar currently. They hope Pogacar will faulter and give back time. Haters..lol

[@tonymckenzie3091]

JV should now consolidate 2nd on podium, its clear Pog is on different level...now on 14 stage wins at age 25 and could easily win another 2 at this years TDF.

[@n.heroep2786]

Finally we all got the answer to this claim that “Jonas will get better as the week progress.” We all said the same thing about Tadej last year. Jonas just like Tadej performed well, and eventually Tadej paid for his lack of preparation.So logic prevails. Lack of preparation is still “lack of preparation.” Every stage is so brutal. They race full gos, so where’s the time to gain form if you hardly can rest and recover properly? Logically, the only way Jonas can win TDF if Tadej has a bad day or he finally fading, not Jonas is getting better. For me that’s the most logical explanation. Today’s we saw what Jonas level is. He stuck on the 4th gear and can’t get any faster. In fact the question will be “will Jonas pay for his burning matches on the 3rd week due to his lack of preparation?” If Jonas dropped Tadej today, I was going to call Jonas is an alien. But today’s Jonas showed his impact of his lack of conditioning.

[@JB-ir3is]

JB, today you showed you are the man. Stick shift all the way.

[@dennisjohnston3180]

Even with doping its impressive, The doping protocols and new drugs are amazing.

[@perrymcguire3806]

Great video again guys! As a fan of Vinegaard, I'm just hoping we see a 'fit' Jonas in the Tour next year and with a full strength Visma team then we'll see...

[@muradtalukdar4401]

"New technology and training techniques and marginal gains" Hahahahahahahahaha

[@westboundbadger]

Marginal stains,..

[@GuntherL1]

I'm sure Gianetti and Matxin have nothing to do with it :)

[@kenallen4175]

It's not mind blowing it's Dope! I enjoy the racing tho for sure.

[@TellusJD]

First time I agree with this in years but yes no denying this year is doped really doped.

[@bigrustybucket]

Finally, someone addressing the elephant in the room!!

[@werlupin]

Buitrago or Gall would probably have won the Tour 10 years ago with their current performances. That shows how much the level has risen.

[@bigwave_dave8468]

Yes that was curious how Pog went at 5k to go -- not his usual tactic. Even if he had Sepp Kuss, I don't think Jonas could've kept up with Pog's acceleration at the top but it would have been much closer. Matteo Jorgensen didn't have his power meter and looked a little bewildered at the end of the stage saying he hoped he did good. Such a bummer we couldn't have the Matteo+Sepp show on that stage. Matteo has been a Super-Duper Domestique! IMO Jonas has won the 'race of life' and is a champion regardless of this podium.

[@jenspetersen5865]

With the performances, the mind jumps to doping, but I would love for JB2 to explain how technology, training, nutrition etc has changed to allow this huge jump in speed.

[@generaphaelian8893]

How do I like this a second, third, nth time? Incredible insight 👏

[@danishcomfort1678]

Jonas told today on Vismas LAB press conference, that he is not in the Tour to take a second place, he has won the Tour twice. we're going to have some exciting stages this week. Imagine if the Alpes was before the the Pyrenees the this Tour.

[@iFanchi]

It's funny Johan saying that an attack from 10k and 5k to go is too far, as I can remember Armstrong attacking multiple times during the years from far. Some examples: 1999 stage 9 - 8k to go 2000 stage 10 - Huatacam - 12k to go 2001 stage 10 l' Alpe d' Huez - 10k to go 2003 stage 15 - 9k to go

[@CoopMauKona]

When people talk about stage records, they only look at the person winning the stage like Pogi. They don't consider the entire stage and if there are 2-3 times more powerful riders driving the entire tempo of the lead group, that will also lower the time alot. Maybe in the past, there was more jockeying for position lower down on the climb, so they rode slower. Total time doesn't tell the entire picture.

[@luma3163]

How many blood bags are standard during a grand tour today?

[@christopheralix8554]

Don’t forget. JV took a crap of time on Remco. So it wasn’t all about gaining the yellow. That tactic they employed AT LEAST almost guarantees 2nd place. If he just kept the gap small, be would also risk a podium spot. This was the better move

[@user-bd9dp6dw6u]

Excellent point, esp. considering the last time trial.

[@17NateJohnson]

If these are record-breaking times, then how is JV not doing as well as last year??!

[@jvaraneta]

beautiful podcast! of course, Visma has to do something even if they knew that they were against a landslide.

[@fabiovalentinuzzi5589]

Tadej actually won SIX giro stages. 23 GT stage wins already at the year of 25 😮

[@user-wm3fw2sw5g]

Thank god for Johan. The Jonas fanboys on the other channel are unbearable.

[@Swampster70]

Lets not forget that last year it was Pogi that was out injured and not having a good prep for the Tour. While not at the same seriousness as Jonas's injuries but any lack of prep has to be a hindrance.

[@JoseJrOntanillas]

the best reviews than the move imo

[@raskolnikov1242]

Pantani also stopped to wait Ullrich for a puncture... on plateau de beille. Today he would probably do 37min.

[@TellusJD]

And probably not no, today as what said beat all records including Pantanis best climbs ever and by some margin. His alpe dhuez is considerably lower than this one in terms of watts.

[@raskolnikov1242]

@@TellusJD I mean with evolution and their training and a computer on board etc...

[@raskolnikov1242]

@@TellusJD Pantani was not planned for the Tour in 1998 when he did the record. And partied in Rimini for two straght weeks just after the Giro to celebrate it. Then grew up day by day as he had no ambition in that Tour. He was serious 30% of the year... This is how good he was.

[@dynamo6735]

​@@TellusJD climbing times from different races simply cannot be compared 1:1, its never an all out effort from bottom to the top in the race, different pacing, different tactics, points of attack etc etc

[@ryoukokonpaku1575]

@@dynamo6735 There's also different weather too. Wind direction or even dry/wet conditions can change speeds dramatically for a peloton.

[@brucegelman5582]

Chapeau!!!

[@emmasloan1489]

Visma has no choice but to ride like this.. the only hope of clawing back time from Tadej is to win stages and get bonus seconds ... otherwise how else are you going to do it?

[@christianmunk-christensen6568]

Bruynell: the level has gone up since Pantani and Lance, that's why 13 riders were breaking the record yesterday, and today 3 riders were better. Me: Why has the level gone up? Can we please be a bit realistic about what it takes to completely outperform the records of the super doped riders of the past who were wearing tight clothes like today (and nothing like "parachutes" which Bruynell claimed after stage 14), and whose bikes were as light as the ones used today. Where do the extra watts come from?

[@paulmellor9369]

Do you all believe these records are being smashed due to doping? Please leave comment below…

[@Tyson19882]

Yes

[@bigrustybucket]

Yes

[@yannlemarec6301]

Yes

[@ryanoneil4473]

How many more miles than Jonas did tadej ride in the 4months before the tour

[@timarmstrong7830]

That's the man upstairs telling you to stop talking crap on the Poka Dot jersey 🌩31:25

[@JohnJance-nh4dl]

Yes manual car shifting

[@Chiller11]

@@JohnJance-nh4dl Especially in sports cars and trucks.

[@Aeolos67]

Explain how these riders are FASTER than Lance. How is that possible?

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

Tires and waxed chains.

[@Nthr4xx]

Better equipment, better training, better nutrition

[@luiscolon921]

@@Nthr4xxespecially science. 😂

[@ryoukokonpaku1575]

@@luiscolon921 I mean, there's a huge leap on carb intake from Patani's era. Lance and co didn't even eat that much, 40-60g carbs per hour was basically maximum, any more would cause GI issues, EPO was basically acting as extra carbs for those riders to be able to keep muscles going even after they should've bonked due to glycogen shortage. These days pros could consume as high as 140g carbs per hour. I'd bet if the doping era had the same carb intake and equipment they'd be even faster. Also do note that Patani actually had to wait for Ullrich due to a puncture on that same climb. If he didn't wait, he could've been still faster than even the current riders.

[@Chris-xv2gm]

It's all clean. No doping today. None. 🤣

[@johngillis7625]

7.4Watts/kg for 40 minutes. Why does no one want to even talk about this. He has improved more then 10% above the numbers produced by Pantatini and Lance and others. I want to believe, but it is such a dominate performance that it has taken the fun right out of the sport. Even the other riders are snickering and saying they are not even remotely close. There is not one other endurance sport in the world that has improved by that much in the last 10-20 years. in the 90s we were already at human limits.

[@johnnycab8986]

After winning classics and destroying everyone at the Giro no less. Zero fatigue, just getting faster and faster. Outclimbing another mutant thats 6kg less on a super steep climb. LMAO

[@johngillis7625]

Just would be nice for the former pros to give their honest opinion. Clearly Omerta is still very much present

[@grant_dubs]

yeah i have no idea how any of these people believe this is natural and is due to advancements in technology and nutrition. the nutrition now yes you go faster for longer but we’ve never seen anyone do 6.98 w/kg for 40 mins at the tour naturally especially after doing a record performance yesterday and winning another grand tour earlier in the year. he’s showing zero fatigue it just doesn’t make sense.

[@carlosgaspar8447]

pogicar is in the prime of his life; many others had to play the domestique role before being allowed a leadership role at this age.

[@johngillis7625]

@@grant_dubs Great points. What I find odd, is not one former pro or coach or news agency is even commenting on this. I love cycling.....feels like a circus show.these days.

[@marcoghidini4262]

I'm asking why nobody talks about "doping".. Is it a "taboo" topic? Yesterday we saw an incredible performance.... Everybody's talking about technical improvement, new nutrition strategies .... But please, there's no huge improvements from last years to this one, we are not talking about 26 years ago... we are talking about last years... Why these records ar destroyed right now? Yesterday we saw Pogacar climb at 6.98 W/Kg for 39.50 min, his best performance last year was 7.0 W/kg on Col d'Eze. 15.08 min. Please, try to ask any trainer how to reach this kind of improvement, starting from a really good shape, and let me know what he answer to you. Could someone try to explain me how is it possible? No accusations, just need to understand

[@annaak7849]

A historical win. Maybe its Pogi drinking Ketone IQ?😅

[@emanueldesousa77]

What we need to compare is the intervals between the athletes of the same era, not from very different eras… and then compare the proportions of those intervals BETWEEN ERAS, and you’ll see how those intervals are actually similar…

[@rwoodford9812]

You guys are both Jonas fan Boys, along with Lance and George. Pog is the best tour rider in 50 years, Visma is pretty much the 2024 version of Postal, I won’t go into my real views! I’m glad Johan lost his bet on Jonas! Keep up the good work boys!

[@SUDO702]

The modified beetroot juice of today is just so much better than the EPO they took in the Armstrong/Pantani days..

[@problem40]

LR is a read book and they have no other idea

[@systemicchaos3921]

What do you mean

[@telmolicious]

Imagine if Pogi went to the Vuelta and won there as well 😜🤪😅

[@BenjaminUbayyed-po9tc]

tire compunds alone make the sport so much faster

[@earlfoss99]

Question about diet - In an interview, Lance said at his level he didn't need to eat as much as you'd think because pros have a higher efficiency on the bike. When you were with USPS, did anyone use an individual's efficiency factor for deciding how many calories to replace in a training day? Like, a top pro whose power meter says they burnt 1000 calories in a ride, did they actually burn and replace less like 600, 800, etc?

[@Nthr4xx]

Pro's dont ride more efficient. There's been a massive studies done that disproves this theory. Watts are still watts, and calories are still calories. Pro's are just trained to be able to consume, and recover (from eating) more

[@earlfoss99]

@@Nthr4xx I didn't ask you

[@mickelkobeck7376]

I said before the TDF started that Visma should NOT have brought Jonas to the Tour...but rather got him ready for La Vuelta

[@5508Vanderdekken]

It’s the tour - who gives a s h i t about the vuelta

[@mickelkobeck7376]

@@5508Vanderdekken Just saying it would have allowed for Jonas to take more time, and be really at 100 percent...I'm quite sure the Sponsors had a say in the decision.

[@Chiller11]

@@mickelkobeck7376 The cynical part of me agrees with you. I’m sure Jonas was motivated to do the Tour de France though. It is the single biggest show there is, in the cycling world at least.

[@ninnak-ve5ko]

He will still most likely go to the vuelta..

[@pedrodiogo4807]

Jonas just did 6.85 w/kg on Plateau de Beille so of course Visma did the right thing bringing the defending champion to the biggest bike race in the world, he is in the same shape of last year its just that Pogacar stepped up big time.

[@ryankeels4661]

I think an over looked fact is that these guys are on way better equipment from aerodynamics perspective, these cycling calculators people are using to guess their W/KG dont account for that difference. Also they were going all out from the bottom... other years the first few K might have been at Lances Z3 etc.

[@christopheralix8554]

Difference is UAE knew this was gonna be the tactic so they brought all the climbers. Visma can’t drop the UAE climbers. Valiant effort, but it was doomed from the start of the TDF. Visma shouldn’t have done this, but tries to keep the gap as little as possible to take advantage of a bad day for TP. Much more likely than the employed tactic paying off.

[@user-bd9dp6dw6u]

Bad days from Pogacar will not happen on their own, esp. with the strength of UAE. They have to be forced. In the end futile, but only chance Visma has.

[@andresesquivel4506]

El nuevo lance !!! Destronó al rey 💉💊💊💉

[@EITiga]

Ans. Ghent 🇧🇪

[@carlosgaspar8447]

back when almeida and remco were teammates and they rode the giro, didn't almeida actually beat remco on the first tt. imagine if remco has a bad day...

[@cypriano8763]

just watched the 1998 pantani ascent of plateau de beille. the peloton was going tempo up the bottom of the climb then pantani attacked solo like at 10 ks to go. one has to wonder if pantani had pogis bike, not grinding at 25 t with 22mm tires, if jorgenson, then jonas would have paced him up going full gas, how many minutes he would have taken of his record. just sayin, it a was totally different situation in 98

[@redscooter32]

Should Pogacar try for the triple?

[@5508Vanderdekken]

Yes, he should overcook his whole season and be messed up for all of next year so the poggy fans have an excuse for his loss next tour

[@user-cc6wn6rl3j]

He already said he won't do it. Olympics and WC

[@MeesterJ]

No.

[@ricomacpherson6845]

I'm not sure, that the one teami is stronger 💪 than other. It's that team leader is fitter due not injuries

[@heidewatzka]

The Probelemis, tht all of a sudden riders like Jonas and Tadej improving over 10% inside of one single year. You can now also be 2 mount out f training and only train one month and be 10% better then before. And if we also consider in, that in the three years prior to this year the Watts also exploded, then this cannot be explained by some technical stuff, or some supplements. This can make you al litle bit better, but not to that degree. Otherwise we would also see that in other sports and also in the past post Armstrong years, we would have seen that kind of explosion. But to that days, the Team Sky days ,we did not saw that explosion...they were not by far as fast, as Pantani and so on. So, your comparriosson is not correct. You say that those times were over 25 years ago and so much had chanched. But no...also in 2020 they were not able to break those records, not even close...but now, inside a few years, they pulverise them. That the thing you simply ignore in your analyse. And can you imagine, Jonas would not had been crashed and would had a propper build up? He would had been even faster then Pogacar. Everything else would be bs, cause then riders only need 1 month of training after a 2 month break...after a nearly carrer finished crash. That makes training for cycling so much easier....cause, if you just pause for 2 month, instead of crash out and have the stress on your body that he must recover, you need even less time then 1month to prepare for the Tour and be on the podium :D

[@maddb3457]

Imo there are other shows that just want to talk about doping. I would rather just enjoy the sport as we are meant to see it and analyze it by the numbers. We've already went through a scandal within the last 15 years and that storyline is still beating that dead horse.

[@heidewatzka]

@@maddb3457 The problem is, that we can not realy enjoy it. Like 15 years plus ago, we do not know what happens. And also in this channel year after year they try to find excusses. i do not know if it was last year or the year before Johan was asked, why are they so close to the Records now (i think to that date they were two minutes behind). And he was saying exactly the same like he does now but with the difference that he added, they are still not beating that records. Now, only 1or 2 years later, like I said, he says the same but now they are beating that records by ven 4 minutes and are injured :D. i can still enjoy cycling...but I do not like, if someone trys to sell me oranges as an apple. Thats absolute unenjoyable and normaly every fan should think so. But i also think, that most fans forget realy fast what people are saying and so they live only in the moment. But for me, as a fan of cycling in general (not of one rider) and also open to opinions of other people, that matters a lot. Like I said, if someone sticks to something and then is not able to change there mind, if something significant changes, then I have my doubts. Cause I know something is going on.

[@maddb3457]

@@heidewatzka Doping will always be one step ahead of testing. IMO doping, supplements, and pro sports go hand in hand. There a ton of supplements that are approved to be used that are just on the white list and it is the officiators that draw that arbitrary line that we call things doping. Even electrolytes and the energy gels took a lot of oversight and testing in the labs to determine that they are effective. We have just accepted those and chose to reject others.

[@heidewatzka]

@@maddb3457 no doubts, i agree. I am fine with it, just annyoed by people who try to find excuses. i would prefer if they simply would not talk about it.

[@EITiga]

Top 7 will not be change but Giulio Ciccone, Derek Gee, Matteo Jorgenson, Ben Healy, Felix Gall, Simon Yates and Santiago Buitrago will battling this top8-10 spot in the last week.

[@gerthenriksen8818]

Would Sepp Kuss have made a difference for Vingegaard?

[@wranglercycling6420]

All pro mate...! No room for amateurs

[@yvest3094]

why downsizing your recording screen?

[@brucegelman5582]

I love how commentators think pog is going to blow up and lose 7minutes.What planet are they on?

[@5508Vanderdekken]

Did you watch last year? Because that exact thing happened

[@brucegelman5582]

​@@5508VanderdekkenYes I watched last year.Pogacars numbers this year are way better and he is lighter and his team is superior.There are no chinks in his or his teams armor this year.Next year if both are at 100% it will be closer with Sepp Kuss back.

[@Galaxieguy428]

Tadej raced a bunch of the classics plus the injury. It's not the same as last year. Almost like reversed roles with coming in post injury.

[@ricomacpherson6845]

Has tadej finally matured

[@zyxelsoma1691]

Stop comparing dopers' times with the times of clean riders.

[@TellusJD]

nah this time it should be because the dopers just lost for the first time to this "clean" generation. There is no records now stronger than the one pogi did, and Jonas did the second best of all time.

[@DittersGustav]

What clean riders?

[@Tyson19882]

For someone with soma in your name, you should know better. Nobody is clean

[@bdefraeye1445]

If you are the only DS, doctor from previous era who is not allowed at the sport anymore. It kinda logic why he does it. They took away what Bruyneel loved, and now he is seeing the same things but can't tell us. So he shows us.

[@user-oj1me3vo5l]

Last year Pog lost a tract of training from I believe a. Injured wrist.

[@goansunborn]

How many riders are using a motor?

[@bmmtxb]

Perhaps there was a tailwind?

[@alphawhiskeymc]

I also prefer manual transmission, sports cars, motorcycles, hell I’d take a minivan. Gotta be manual.

[@ThomasBURKE-fq3kl]

Johan’s analysis is always on point and informative. With JB2, the Move is a waste of time

[@brianbak2334]

jonas have pull taday in 5.5 km before taday drive, so he have just drive in 4.5 km and Jonas 10+ km

[@andreim1270]

Jonas did his bets watts EVER, this is THE BEST jonas ever... mayeb he can be better but this is th ebest Jonas

[@luiscolon921]

This is an improved Jonas from last year but not optimal due to reduced training and stuck in a hospital bed for 12 days followed by 2 weeks of real easy cycling to start to work back to where he was b4 the accident.

[@jespernrgaardlarsen6467]

As long as former directors and coaches involed in doping are welcomed in professional cycling, it will never escape the drug ghost. Matxin and Gianetti are there today, paid by UAE, former Rabobank directors and coaches are there behind Visma, WHY? Riders get life ban, directors, coaches, doctors, they not only go free, they are welcomed in. UCI simply needs to reorganise.

[@mariosimas]

what Visma did was unleash the monster inside Pogi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!