Tower Defense Games are Fundamentally Flawed

[@klasrem]

TD games on ***Roblox*** are mostly flawed... mainly because some are new developers or VERY young. So most of the TD games on Roblox aren't good whatsoever. Some will be completely unbalanced and others too grindy or too formulaic. Hell, some will just be entirely low quality or bugged to the point of no return. Also about every TD game being a clone, I mean the gameplay loop can be similar, but there are plenty of games that introduce originality. On Roblox, you have Arena: Tower Defense (HELLA underrated) or Evolution Evade (also HELLA underrated) as two examples. Then on the other side of the aisle, you've got Bloons TD. Look at the evolution of Bloons TD and you'll find countless innovations and plenty of original tower types. The issue with originality is it's hard to be original today because all markets are oversaturated. Look at Hollywood. All the top dogs are rehashing spin-offs or live action slop to cash in on anything. And I feel critiquing all TD games as having a gameplay loop is kind of pointless. All game types have a gameplay loop... a trope. RPGs: kill the bad guys -> level -> kill the boss; FPS: load into a game -> shoot as many opponents as possible -> win; incrementals/tycoons: obtain resources -> spend resources -> watch numbers go up; and so on. Let's use Pokemon as a replacement for TD games in this video. It has flashy visuals. It has a formulaic gameplay loop. The gameplay doesn't change between games. You get a starter Pokemon to then fight other Pokemon to then collect more Pokemon to fight gym trainers. That's decades of many games summarized. Does that mean Pokemon is fundamentally flawed? No, it's just following the RPG format with the only new introduction being the changing story. The difference in a TD game specifically is the strategy, the meta. A developer could choose to make a TD game excruciatingly challenging to make one strategize, others could make it laid back to make it a chill experience. Or there could be different mechanics. Like EE (mentioned earlier) you unlock new towers through beating different eras, all gradually increasing in difficulty. Arena: TD has a story spanning different games. Bloons TD has variety after being continually changed over more than a decade. The thing with a TD game is it's based on strategy, that's what makes you think. You can't play, say, Bloons TD mindlessly and hope to black border every map. You actually have to plan and think on how to do C.H.I.M.P.S. on #ouch. Also real quick, on flashy visuals, it's to grab your attention. It's kind of basic human psychology. Why are KZbin thumbnails all saturated bright colors? To grab your attention. I personally don't like looking at super flashy colors, I prefer more muted and darker colors. But it's just how our brains function and react in that regard. Now, on Roblox, TD games are flawed because Roblox is flawed. You want to get your game out there in an EXTREMELY oversaturated market. Once a new game gets the spotlight, many rip-offs pursue. That's how the decline of simulators happened. Pet Simulator. It introduced some unique mechanics, but it quickly became the catalyst for a market that soon became a cashcow for low quality works. The issue with TD games on Roblox is quality isn't supported through the algorithm. It's quantity. Roblox functions like KZbin. The more people interacting with the content/game - the more the algorithm supports it. That's why Toilet TD became so popular. Younger audiences found Skibidi Toilet funny, wanted to seek out similar content, and low quality games started popping up with that one thing they liked, and the game got a lot of engagement so it got pushed. Which relates to your point about TD games only using recognizable characters to be popular... if that's the case... why did TDS blow up in 2019? It was just a school project using little random dudes. TDS blew up because it was good. It had fun gameplay. Now why can't other TD games blow up? Because there's already a big dog in the market. TDS has a big following with loyal players. A lot of them won't just ditch the game. That leaves limited players for other ones. Sometimes, other games just can't stick their head out in the sea of games on Roblox. Like Arena: TD. It usually has 30 concurrent players. I've never seen advertising for it and it remains relatively hidden. You have to be in the niche to find it. Evolution Evade was actually supported by John Roblox for a time. He just stopped making videos and EE is discontinued. Although, EE2 is being worked on... and I think it'll drop sometime in 2025 (don't quote me on that). Not all good games manage to get the spotlight, which is a sad but true part of life. (Also I didn't mention TDX... mainly 'cause I'm not a fan so I can't speak much on behalf of it. Some say it's good... but John doesn't know how to balance out grind imo)

[@Comm_Fish]

Just say that you don't like TD games on roblox

[@UnitopTagum-f6p]

They are flawed wdym

[@adcr5yt]

@@UnitopTagum-f6p this comments sounds like from someone who hasnt tried out the greater td games such as tbz and tdx and remember nothing is perfect

[@UnitopTagum-f6p]

@@adcr5yt i played those games but i felt they were missing something but thats just my opinion, those td games are peak compared to all td games in roblox

[@adcr5yt]

@@UnitopTagum-f6p TDX is literally 1 year old and tbz is discontinued but there is another tbz coming somewhere in june 2025

[@NA13C]

This is one of the worst takes ive seen on TD games. 1. TD games are not a sub-genre of simulators dispite TDS's name. 2. TD games can innovate its just that roblox devs choose not to because of the limitations of roblox, just being lazy, or in fear of thier game being too hard for the 90% of children playing roblox. 3. Boiling TD games into "Place early game towers then place endgame towers" is a down right bad faith argument. You can do this tactic for almost any game or genre. If someone asked you what a FPS game or shooter game is you dont just say "Well you just shoot people!". No, you wouldnt do that but since you dont like TD games you just boiled the genre to its bare bown mechanics. 4."TD games are just like reddit stories on shorts" I dont think I even have to say anything for this point. No, TD games aren't "flawed". The top TD games on roblox arent popular only because of flashy visuals but because theyre easy. Most of the roblox fanbase are kids who dont want a challenge and quit every time something gets hard. This video sounds like it comes from someone who only played TDS and Toilet TD.

[@fermuda]

1. When I say "sub-genre" of simulators, I refer to the fact that Tower Defense gameplay is repetitive and doesn't require any further thought (compared to games such as CoD, where you *could* say the gameplay is "just shooting people," but there's tons of thought that goes into player movement and the like) 2. I've been in the Tower Defense development community for several years. Talking to big brands, this is exactly what I'm told. 3. For every game of Tower Defense Simulator I've played, this is what I've felt like I was doing. 4. It's an analogy, I'm talking about how ASMR visuals keep audiences hooked. Thank you for your perspective on takes I've made in my video, I will use these to increase my production value in the future.

[@4dstrawberry-l9z42f]

0:07 - not sure you calculated that correctly. In total, 480 people voted on that gamepass. This is 2,687,520 robux. Then the 30% cut. 1,881,264. Then they go in to devex it. 6584$ dollars if I calculated that correctly (lol imagine if I didn't). That's a lot right? But paradoxum games has 30 developers. $219 (at minimum) when split up, but it's probably closer to $150 because they have even more employees. Yes, this is a minimum, so let's calculate if only 5% of people upvoted, that would mean we have to multiply it by 20. $3000 dollars so far. But keep in mind, they've been working on this feature for A VERY LONG TIME, like at least 6 months. The owner of the game mentioned it about 4 months ago, and he said it was almost done and was going to release around thanksgiving or something (it had to get delayed a bit tho). Admin commands, especially in TDS, are not something easy to code, and considering he said it would be releasing relatively soon, he was pretty confident. So we can safely assume that they've been working on this for a VERY long time. Why is this important? Well, you got to pay your developers, right? For the time it took them to develop this feature, they actually lost some money. Obviously I'm not trying to say that "3000 dollars isnt enough!!". It's a crap ton of money, but you have to keep in mind that there are a lot of developers, contributors, contractors (and more) who got paid to work on and test this feature. So technically speaking, I don't think they're ACTUALLY profiting off it. There's like a 90% chance I missed something here so correct me if I'm wrong.

[@Verycoolusernamelol]

0:39 Wait, wasn't Tower Defense a sub-genre for strategy games?

[@bouvet_]

yes they are tower defense games are strategy based

[@PanTostek]

They aren't fundamentally flawed. It's just that Roblox Tower Defenses are mostly all shit. They stick to the formula without trying to think out of the box and create new mechanics or bring new ideas to the table. Play literally any other TD that is outside of Roblox. (the 2 games I play a lot are Grow Castle and BTD6)

[@Verycoolusernamelol]

I kind of agree with this but just because they stick with the formula doesn't mean they are shit. for example, TDX and TBZ have two paths for every tower and the designs are not bad. and there are a lot of not famous TD games that are quite unique for example CTD that has towers you can place on the path and towers with unique abilities.

[@PanTostek]

@@Verycoolusernamelol just was saying that most TD games on roblox are bad, and also a lot of them are almost the same and boring, TBZ is one of these games that I actually respect for being original

[@Verycoolusernamelol]

@@PanTostek 👍

[@ADAMBINMOHDTARMIZIMoe]

blud havent played tdx halloween chapter 3 or endless mode at all, tdx'ians and tds'ians, attack this titan

[@mateothegreat3025]

As someone learning game design, and being a long time tds player, I can tell you there is so much to do with the genre (at least on Roblox). If you want to make a TD game please do. With enough mechanics that make you stand out you could actually do really good.

[@Experience_Point]

What is blud yapping about

[@bouvet_]

tower defense games are a niche sub-genre of strategy and NOT simulator, however the grinding/repetitiveness can be similar to one, however they're less simulator and more strategy. it being a niche and a sub-genre makes them specific and, well, specified to a certain audience that likes the gameplay. disliking a niche is very common amongst game genre because its specific. if you dont like it, dont interact with it. its a niche. (not to say to not share your opinion though, which i dont see being the problem, this comment is to just clear things up in defense of the sub-genre)

[@AlanWilliams-de2zl]

This is a huge overexaderation of how simple and repetitive tower defense games are. If you play a game like Tower Defense Simulator you will realize it isn't as repetitive as described in this video.

[@gunpowder777]

bruh why did i fall for this ragebait

[@RandomAhhChannel1122]

Me who is level 300+ in TDS and level 135+ in TDX and im bored playing TD game cuz of me doing everything other than grinding battlepass: Explain my boredom as of now hm? Edit: Also only hate on Brain dead TD games (example: Skibidi Toilet/Brainrot theme, Games that shows you gamepasses almost everyone like Lethal TD or Simpsons, etc)

[@PlanetExtract]

regardless every game on roblox has you grind it, so what are you even onto rn

[@fermuda]

There's different levels of grinding. It all really depends on how fun grinding the game actually is. In my opinion, the grind of Tower Defense games are slow and boring compared to genres with more player interaction.

[@ploxiar]

Fermuda don't hide my comments, don't hide the fact you goon to ur classmates in your own school.

[@duckies2005]

True.

[@shitanotosaurus]

what??

[@4dstrawberry-l9z42f]

what?

[@Alt-b7s]

Bro DID NOT beat tdx and tds skibidi events😭😭

[@skaiomg]

bro please i literally cannot even tell what ur saying 😭

[@haiheo69420]

not all td games are bad. It's not because of their "flashy effects", it's because their fun! In the video, you make a statement on how TDX maps are flashy to distract players from the boring gameplay. I disagree with this. Can we not make world-building. Can we not enjoy the map design? Can we not design good maps? Tell me other games doesn't have "flashy effects" or bright maps in their game. Why haven't you even touched Pets Go, it's just getting pets from eggs over and over, while having flashy lighting, effects? TD games are not a subgenre of simulators. Don't even know where you got that from. It's a subgenre of strategy. You don't just place towers and repeat. You need to know where to place them, target them, know what towers are good on others, enemies. Plus, don't tell me other games isn't like that.

[@fermuda]

I wasn't talking about maps, I was talking about particles and models. When I say "sub-genre" of simulators, I refer to the fact that Tower Defense gameplay is repetitive and doesn't require any further thought (compared to games such as CoD, where you could say the gameplay is "just shooting people," but there's tons of thought that goes into player movement and the like). When playing Tower Defense games, there are spots where it is common sense to place towers (around corners and hooks), it doesn't really take much thought. Also, from what I've played, you use the same towers in quite literally every single round you play (I don't know why you'd need to "know what towers are good on others" if you can use the tower that's good on everything).

[@tomaszrozumowicz5181]

One bit I disagree on (this is my personal opinion) is that good looking td games get higher players and I personally disagree because I’ve played lots and lots of poor graphic td games and I had lots of fun in them and I do still enjoy the popular ones (not ttd I hate it) because of their features like tdxs tower death mechanic as it’s spices up gameplay. (I would speak more but I don’t want to yap anymore).

[@klasrem]

Honestly, the best thing you can use as evidence is TTD. That game looks and plays like shit, yet it's super popular. If you don't put effort in a game, you just gotta make it appeal to a certain demographic (like Skibidi Toilet fans)

[@dndplaceholder1902]

I agree I don't like monotonous grind.

[@Unknownteamleader]

Where have you been

[@fermuda]

I've been working on other projects

[@Jawrones]

@@fermuda including hating on td games for horrible reasons

[@ploxiar]

@@fermuda include gooning to ur classmates while at school

[@4dstrawberry-l9z42f]

@ploxiar where does bro get this info from 😭

[@ploxiar]

@@4dstrawberry-l9z42f he said it himself

[@A340RobloxGamer]

ttd is trash and not a tower defnse game

[@lionkiertcmbg]

I did NOT expect to see you here

[@Someone-hc5ud]

If u want to play MASSIVE effort td game on roblox just play tower defenders

[@abdullahtayyab8828]

tower galactica when

[@iCanOnlyHave30CharactersInMyNa]

You mean roblox tower defence games are flawed.

[@Cosmi592]

This is such a interesting take on things, and i really like how you bring it to light!

[@progressfeed]

ok try an actual tower defense game instead of roblox slop

[@shitanotosaurus]

real...

[@Alxr0_0]

rofl