Toyota GR86 Long Term Update and Changes

[@joe718gt4]

Mark blowing away the budget on fine dining

[@BMWWolf]

Red lobster is a guilty pleasure

[@_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-]

Mark dining away the budget on fine blowing.

[@jeffreysalzman1497]

Unlimited Cheddar Bay Biscuits!

[@Quesadila21]

*Red Bull has joined the chat*

[@aaronbritt2025]

"Fine dining" LOL. Glad Red Lobster is gone.

[@CTR_Dan]

Cannot express how grateful I am for the technical info. I've bought 2 cars based on their reviews. I think this will be my third. No one does reviews better than Jack and Mr.Goose

[@Jose-mq8os]

which cars?

[@Roger_Ramjet]

I miss Turbowski

[@feelsgoodS2K]

Don't worry about video length Jack! I am soaking up every second of this as I am looking at similar mods/track duties.

[@bt7482]

As we all know quality over quantity ;)

[@WarriorsPhoto]

100 % agree with your statement.

[@braetonwilson4296]

If I bought this car, I would do zero mods. It's perfect stock.

[@price9195]

LOL the first thing I thought 21 minutes?!

[@andrewrossnagel9433]

Wish it was 45 min

[@chriskellas2902]

I love the way you guys point out the weak points of the car as well as the strong points. I am very interested in getting one of these and It really helps to get a well rounded overview..... Thanks!

[@petethecarfreak3486]

I've driven the new BRZ a few times, it is so fun. Great choice of car

[@machina_spirit]

Commenting for the algo, great job Jack! Even though I’m not in the market for one of these, its such a treat to have you guys do a long term owner breakdown video like this. Alot of good information and insights, especially the track segment chat w Casey. I can see alot of first time buyers and trackday rookies getting benefit from this series. Great stuff as always!

[@MikeF055]

Algo comment here too. Can't wait for the upgrades-real comment.

[@peeepeeepoopooo7541]

@@MikeF055 Same for algo, I'm a gti guy but this car makes me think it's like a more reliable (obviously slower) porsche for half the price. Waiting for the economy to stabilize to either buy a 2008 base c6 coupe or this gr86

[@raymondgilbert7887]

These vids are so helpful!

[@Nick-Who]

Gosh, I much prefer when channels review cars while also considering common and relatively affordable modifications. Sometimes the stock car needs just a little aftermarket help to really shine; ignoring that fact is often a disservice to any comparison. Thanks and keep it up!

[@sp129]

Very informative. The low fuel economy is a bit confusing though, because quite a few reviewers have gotten mpg approaching that of previous gen. One reported getting close to 35 at ~80 mph, albeit on BRZ. Not sure if the wider wheels and stickier tires had an impact.

[@tone3560]

Yeah his numbers are unrealistically low unless he was redlining every gear daily all the time

[@ks1ngh27]

I had a car that did 250 miles per tank, if you use it for traveling and long term, the frequent fill ups do get annoying. Not a deal breaker for some but something to consider. Depending on how it's being used, the car does give you alot.

[@OGS2099]

It was probably a Ford. That's my guess.

[@ForgetfulFoot]

I drove my ND MX5 across Australia. There were a couple of moments in that trip where I got pretty close to being on empty before the next petrol station (areas where there are 200+kms without a petrol station). If the BRZ is roughly 35% worse. It might get you into trouble on longer road trips. Hell my 987.2 Cayman and 370Z gives equal of better fuel economy. Fuel is also is also getting more expensive. Double the price compared to two years ago. No it wont stop people from buying the car. But its pretty bad to have that bad economy out of a 4 banger in 2022.

[@larphraulen]

This was the part about the review that surprised me the most. I have an 18 BRZ and will typically get about 600 km (350 miles) on a road trip. Is the new one really that fuel hungry? Jack did say mostly freeway / country road too.

[@ks1ngh27]

@@OGS2099 it was 2003 Nissan Sentra Se-r. It had bigger 2.5 liter engine with a tank for 1.8 liter engine.

[@andradeuclides]

I think the fuel economy can be a deal breaker depending on how much one drives. Rather make the extra effort for the 6 cil supra if you are gonna spend a ton on gas anyways…

[@thomaschristopherwhite9043]

I love sensible wheel sizes with a good amount of side wall on it. It just looks meaty and serious.

[@user59371]

No they’re too small it looks goofy

[@thomaschristopherwhite9043]

@@user59371 No they're fine. Better that than the giant hotwheels dubs you get on most cars with the rubber painted outside.

[@user59371]

@@thomaschristopherwhite9043 If you aren’t into aesthetics or anything sure

[@jayjacaty3009]

I personally prefer the look of 17s over 18s on this platform. Anything larger than 18 is gaudy as hell, in my opinion. As always-to each, their own.

[@user59371]

@@craig9365 well unfortunately for you, nobody agrees (at least nobody that can afford new cars) so we’ll continue to see large wheels, as they should be.

[@Brian-or2jy]

If you're going to get a dedicated track wheel/tire combo, the base model 17" wheels with all-seasons seems like a huge cost saver. Even if they don't get better fuel economy, they're cheaper and should last 50% longer than the PS4s.

[@danlee3939]

Should be noted the base car's Primacy HP tires are actually not All-Seasons, but Grand Touring Summer tires. They have absolutely no grip in the wet, and it gets worse in the cold.

[@rene5871]

That's why Xbox 360 is better

[@Salvaba]

@@danlee3939 having driven this car on the 17’s since February, the car does not hydroplane or feel upset when you don’t want it to in the wet or cold. Like any rear wheel drive car, you can slide a whole lot more on wet pavement. I specifically wanted the base model because the sidewall means comfort, the primacies are cheaper and are more suitable for low-speed drifting. The car is controllable 100% of the time and there is never a time you don’t feel the grip you’re supposed to and there are times where I’ll be living out my initial D fantasies around every corner with no issues. Buy the primacies if you want to have fun

[@Salvaba]

The initial review sums it up well: get the 18s with the pilot sports if you are more interested in grip, get the 17s if it’s to have fun and for more comfort.

[@xFlared]

@@rene5871 I remember the old console flame wars back from 2007. Damn I feel old.

[@TheJahbrother]

Your suggestion regarding the stereo system was SPOT ON! I have the base model BRZ and by turning off all the digital enhancements and keeping all the other settings flat the base stereo is quite fine. Anyway much much better than with the various “enhancements”

[@bradfitzgerald2856]

Those Apex wheels are beautiful on this car

[@apexwheels]

Great stuff guys! So excited to be a part of this build series and to have more offerings for this chassis soon. Impressive car for the money and even better with choice modifications!

[@94tegLSatMSC]

Oh really... interested in new offerings 🤔

[@andrewrossnagel9433]

You guys need to be first one to bring CF wheels to the regular consumer.

[@sl0907]

Are these the 17x9 +38 or 17x9 + 42?

[@apexwheels]

@@sl0907 These are 17x9 ET42! The higher offset ARC-8 can work on the gen 2 cars but there is limited inner clearance around the rear fenders so wider tires may scrub the fenders. We have Gen 2 Specific forged wheels en route that take this into account. -Tom

[@RoadBike4Life]

@@apexwheels any plans to offer the VS-5RS in 17x9 ET~42 to remove the need for a spacer on the ET48 version?

[@CruiseControl1]

Thank you for 5k/6k mile update. I am picking up my Neptune Blue GR86 Premium in two weeks. Got it at MSRP thankfully (502 miles away though so road trip).

[@HandsomeAlex25]

Roadtrip and half your break-in will be done!

[@CruiseControl1]

@@HandsomeAlex25 very true, no cruise control for the first 1,000 miles, I will be changing speed and gears to vary the rpm

[@Briguy288]

Which dealership was this?

[@CruiseControl1]

@@Briguy288 I will tell you after I pick up the car

[@Briguy288]

@@CruiseControl1 that sounds fair to me

[@flocksbyknight]

You guys and this channel kick ass. Subs may be slow to be where we all know they should be at, but people will be digging through all this content until the sun turns it off ;)

[@Salvaba]

I’ve had my GR86 since February, and my experience is much like Jack’s. I took my car stock to the track and boiled over the fluid shortly before the pads faded away. The hood flutter for me is violent at 114mph, but I’ve seen that figure fluctuate between 80 to 120 within the community. There’s also an annoying issue with the buffeting at highway speeds. Also, The aftermarket is still really expensive and limited, but I’m waiting for ohlins to release our generation specific shocks because I think the car badly needs a good strut.

[@happyambush1]

I may try to experiment on the hood flutter when I get mine in. An extra metal rib that weighs a 1/4 of a pound could do wonders for the stiffness and changing the resonant frequency.

[@espatecfuet7968]

may i ask you what's your mpg been? im interested in one but would be my daily driver and the mpg might be a dealer breaker for me, specially with the current ga prices...

[@Salvaba]

@@espatecfuet7968 sure. I drive like a baboon 90% of the time and live in NYC, the car is also a daily. Over 4500 miles, I’m averaging 21.2 MPG. Jack said he’s getting 24, but I’m sure that’s more cruising on a highway + track and baboon driving than I do in a massive metropolitan area. If you’re hyper focused on fuel, i did a normal drive with mainly highway driving into NJ, averaging about 33mpg.

[@espatecfuet7968]

@@Salvaba okay, thank you very much for your answer and adding the detail of your drive to NJ!

[@TassieLorenzo]

@@happyambush1 Yeah, but it's a little shocking that wasn't engineered out of the car during the R&D phase in the first place. It's a bummer that Subaru & Toyota managed to make the steering feel worse too, they had perfect steering before so why did they mess with it? Some little frustrating things for otherwise a wonderful car.

[@harryspeakup8452]

I'm really surprised it's so thirsty. Allowing for the conversion from US gallons to imperial gallons, that's within a few per cent of the fuel consumption I get in similar-speed mixed running from my 1990 300hp Porsche 944 Turbo. And that's a low compression two-valve engine with a second-generation mahoosive turbo on it.

[@adamrozman]

How tall is top gear? Porsches are pretty notoriously tall geared. BRZ intentionally has closer ratios for fun factor

[@samuelorellana2603]

@@noahkim8377 yeah it's a shame that the one major downfall is a one you might not necessarily expect. These run on premium to boot

[@BitcoinTo100K]

It's pretty bad the supra gets way better fuel economy with double the horsepower. I've personally never seen a boxer engine get good mpg though

[@wescoleman6390]

Yikes, I thought the EPA estimate might be conservative like it was on the first gen. EPA says 22/29, but I routinely hit 33 mpg on long back road trips driving the post refresh BRZ mk1 with the manual transmission and lower final drive ratio.

[@mrstrawcloud]

@@noahkim8377 the gearing might be causing it? Idk. Could be tuning or something.

[@clintonrodriguez9771]

Can you discuss how you approached the break-in period, as well as oil change intervals/oil weights with track use?

[@savagegeese]

Harder break in varying RPM and load. 5w30 for track.

[@odinikita4821]

@@savagegeese jack what is your justification for this harsh type of break in?

[@user-jt6nw6wm5q]

@@odinikita4821 maybe this kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqHSmJ-lq96slZo

[@K03sport]

@@odinikita4821...Subaru uses a thinner oil, from factory, to achieve a better mpg rating. Let the car get to operating temp before taking it higher in the rpm range. Don't keep it at the same rpm for long periods of time (i.e. no 65mph cruise control road trips for 40+ miles. The thicker oil will help absorb heat better around the track and not break down as fast as the thinner oil. Key is getting the engine to operating temp before romping on it.

[@ZZZRaven65]

@@K03sport Sounds like Subaru could replace the oil with WATER and they would still get poor fuel economy. Very disappointing.

[@KealeyOnCars]

For comparison sake: a 2019 Type R with 77k miles is capable of 24.6MPG average, and 29-33mpg on the highway depending on conditions at 75-80mpg. Anyway, love to see what You’ve done with this GR86. It’s giving me ideas.

[@lucky889s9]

Subaru is not known to make fuel efficient engines, unlike toyota. Plus it's a boxer, it could never better inline for consumption

[@Timbercruise]

Love to hear an update on the GR86. I have been on a list to buy one for 6 months. Finally got the call this weekend they have a build date. So stoked.

[@P4SDetails]

Longer content is my jam from bomb creators like you my homie.

[@Unchainedmaple888]

Three months in, my GR86 already has a dented hood because of a rock on the highway hitting the light aluminum hood and rock chips in the front because the paint is paper thin. I haven't got hood flutter over 75 mph but the stupid turn signal stock does glitch out from time to time making my turn signals take on weird timings. When my break in period was done and I needed an oil change (free that comes with the car, my local Toyota dealer didn't have the necessary parts so I had to go to my local Subaru dealer and pay them for an oil change. Finally, the primacy tires have trouble keeping grip even on a dry road with the increased power so I really need to save up for winter tires because I know the primacy tires won't be able to handle snow at all.

[@Barbwire710]

Sorry to hear that. I had a first gen for nearly 4 years and it definitely needed a repaint on the front bumper a year or two in, 50:50 split on highway and street driving. PPF on the front bumper and hood minimum is a must if you need pristine paint.

[@ak2112]

Front end really does love rock chips. I avoid highways whenever I can because of it. The Primacys are fun when it's warm and dry but add a little rain and they really lose their shit. I'll be throwing some Continental Viking Contact 7s on a set of first gen wheels for the winter.

[@jonasbaine3538]

)

[@gwot]

That's just a sign telling you to get a carbon fiber hood, it's a lot more dent resistant :D, oh, and get paint protection.

[@12ealDealOfficial]

@@gwot Or a bra. I don't think this car would look bad with one.

[@Ruinx83]

Song is "Night Stalker" by Wave Saver for anyone curious. One of my all time favorite tracks.

[@michaelgoodwin593]

Lot of value in this video for us Brits patiently waiting for ours to arrive. Thank you

[@alanbarrese456]

You can try bumping your hood latch down a smidge and moving your adjustable hood stoppers upward to help mitigate some of your hood flutter. It will make the hood sit tighter against the stoppers. Might change your fit and finish some, but that's the tradeoff.

[@Ryan.......]

I second Jack's complaint about fuel economy. I was starting to seriously consider the 86 a Miata competitor for my next car, but the poor fuel mileage given the engine size, power, and weight of the 86 made it clear to me again that Miata Is Always The Answer.

[@isaiahkolb3801]

I don't think I could fit in a Miata which is my one problem haha

[@Ryan.......]

@@isaiahkolb3801 I'm between 6'1" and 6'2" (187 cm). With the top up, I can fit in NA, NB, and ND Miatas if I tilt my head. I haven't tried an NC, but my NC's are the largest of the four.

[@seanmiller8198]

@@isaiahkolb3801 I'm 6'1" and 225lbs and fit, not fat. I can fit just fine and I have a long torso vs. long legs. It's completely comfortable for me. Occasionally I wonder if it would be good to get that seat lowering kit. just so I get a bit more windscreen visibility. I've got an Miata RF and have maybe 3 inches of headroom in the hardtop with the stock non-Recaro seats. Once you get over the space difference from other cars, it feels fine. I did a 4100 mile scenic road trip last year and rarely did I feel too cramped. If I did, I just stopped and walked around a bit. I did at the end of two weeks start feeling the pressure on my right leg since I had to lean it against the center console so much while on cruise control, but it was a very small issue to me. Most people would never do what I did with a Miata. I belong to the San Diego Miata Club and there are guys 6'2 in NDs, and some 6'4" in NCs. We've also got plenty of portly fellas that are a bit shorter that fit in there just fine, but I always wonder how they manage it. The best thing to do is get in it and take it for a drive. If you want a bit more clearance for your head, it's about a $300 kit that you can install yourself to lower your seat and extra 1-3/4 inches and still retain the seat slides. You can go lower if you want to leave it in a fixed position on other kits for less.

[@sunnyvalentino]

@Jack, for the steering I'd recommend the Perrin lockout kit. There is also a steering caster bushing correction kit that should make a difference. I'm following your build keenly and glad you are not seeing a need for an oil cooler yet.

[@youngbrevy]

Great video, I always liked the GR86, I couldn’t justify buying one though. The car looks great Jack. The small upgrades seems beneficial to what you are trying to achieve, I definitely wanna see more of this build. I appreciate this.

[@geethsan1567]

Yeah the car feels incomplete but that's the reason why it's cheap so you can modify stuff to suit to your needs.

[@TapTwoCounterspell]

Miata is the right pick. If you want the non-convertible or more aggressive engine the Corolla GR seems like it's going to be insane

[@setharcher5869]

​@@TapTwoCounterspell The 86 is about fun. NA RWD is generally more fun even if it isn't as fast on track as a turbo AWD Corolla.

[@zzanatos2001]

I couldn't justify buying a GR86 either - until I priced a new Mustang. Now the GR looks like an insane bargain.

[@youngbrevy]

@@zzanatos2001 For me I’d need more space, wouldn’t mind a GR Corolla Wagon.

[@danlee3939]

Just did my GR/NASA HPDE at Summit Point Main this weekend. I had Ferodo DS2500 pads and Castrol SRF fluid and experienced no fade going pretty hard and engaging ABS several times (running 540TW UHP All-Season tires); it was a hot day with peak ambient temps in the 90s. I talked to one of the other GR86 drivers in the group who ran fully stock brakes, and he experienced fade towards the end of the day despite not abusing his brakes quite as much as I was to begin with. Another GR86 driver, unfortunately, blew his engine after a single lap, and we don't yet know if it will be covered by warranty. Definitely 100% worth doing pads and fluid as Jack said, as well as getting track insurance (Lockton was about $200 for me, Hagerty quoted about double). The extra expense provided safety and peace of mind, on top of getting full advantage of having an instructor coach me towards the limit, practicing threshold braking. The "free" track day ended up costing almost $1k, but it was well worth it to rekindle the love of driving that DC metropolitan traffic has been eroding for the past several years. Still surprised that Toyota, of all companies, was the one to kick start my new money pit of a hobby. I gotta say, I love what Akio Toyoda has done with the place! UPDATE: Dealer service says it was a mis-shift/over rev that killed the engine; but the log reads what appears to be a successful shift from 3rd to 4th, followed by a spike to 10k RPM somehow.

[@jonasbaine3538]

wow what was the guy doing wrong to the engine for it to blow after 1 lap?

[@danlee3939]

​@@jonasbaine3538 Tracking at 8k miles on the factory oil fill seems to be the culprit; I don't think he money shifted, but that's not entirely ruled out either. His instructor told me not a lot of oil leaked out and he suspects it was low. NASA guidelines say to have fresh fluids or at least top them off for a reason, as it turns out.

[@BeanyB0b]

@@danlee3939 shouldn’t tech have spotted that?

[@danlee3939]

​@@BeanyB0b You'd think so. I'm keeping in contact with the driver to see what Toyota determines to be the cause of the engine failure, and whether it's covered under warranty. Will try to remember to share that info here.

[@lsbugsbunny92]

@@danlee3939 I spoke with the owner on Reddit, I pretty much broke down to him what his mistakes were in not changing the oil at 3k miles.

[@WarriorsPhoto]

Very impressive video. I am glad you have shared this with us. I am excited to see what changes in the next installment video. Good luck and have fun sir.

[@benpenagonzales6014]

Shout out Autobahn Country club for supporting the channel! Would love to see them launch in the UK. I think we're ready for it

[@dylansorenson2784]

Do you mind commenting on rev hang and throttle response? Some members of the GR86 forums swear the rev hang is a massive detractor from the enjoyment of the car, while others swear they hadn't noticed any rev hang. I assume the reality is somewhere in between. What are your thoughts?

[@kirkblackadar7299]

A lightweight crank pulley will help with this.. and LW flywheel too if you're doing a clutch. Helped in my impreza rx and street cars

[@XxUltimateGodzXx]

Rev hang is barely noticeable. To put it in comparison to the civic Si, it's night and day better. And because the clutch bite is closer to you than it is the engine, the slight hang is actually good otherwise you'd have to engage the clutch much faster due to the distance it needs to travel to engage. Don't worry about rev hang and if it bothers you, a lighter weight flywheel could help plus a clutch adjustment so it engages closer to the engine side.

[@Trio3224]

I have a gen 1 86 and the funny thing about the MPG is for my car, I wanted extra power. So I've done headers and other bolts ons and had it tuned for e-85. And now, I'm around 200ish whp (haven't had it dynoed, just going off other ppl that have my exact same setup), which is pretty similar to gen 2, and I also get around 23-24MPG overall now. I definitely think it's worth it.

[@NewCastleIndiana]

This car is all around such a good driver’s car at least in the manual configuration. I’m telling everybody I know to consider this above a Miata below a supra and below a Z car. Having driven them all my choice would be the GR 86

[@fortheloveofnoise]

Miata is still better....better built/more reliable engine...as well as more fun, and a drop top is a MUST! Grandparents were too worried about me when I had such a small car, the stress was going to cause them to have a stroke, so I got the "safer" Camaro...lol.

[@boygonewhoopdataZZ]

Both of you have horrible opinions. There exists a car that is far better than all four listed and it is a Hyundai.

[@NewCastleIndiana]

​@@boygonewhoopdataZZ Elantra N? Or Veloster or Kona? I've driven the V on track, with Hyundai's chief car guy, and I just drove the Elantra. They are good in their own right.

[@Middleguy37]

Better then a miata, no.

[@juniormirandagr86]

@@fortheloveofnoise I drove a newer Miata and it was fun for a bit and I couldn’t really fit in it comfortably like I can the 86, I’m 6’0 and the Miata wasn’t for me 😅 which sucks cause I did like driving it. And it don’t think it would be the best for a daily considering the trunk space and comfortability than I get from the 86

[@lawrencemeadonia7500]

Another point about the fuel efficiency of the 86/BRZ twins, is that theses cars, like so many small displacement sports cars, require premium fuel to operate fully to their potential. So go ahead and add another roughly 30% or more in fuel costs than a "normal" car, which places them near pickup truck territory.

[@khronin]

I have driven these and they have no power at all--especially HWy--mid range to top end--NADA.I have a Kona N and not only was it cheaper==it would trounce this on a drg race or at a track.

[@TheTexican05]

I came here just to broaden my knowledge base on the GR 86 platform. I left with a positive upgrade path for my street and track car: those very wheels and tires! 🙌 ❤ Thank you for all the hard work and time you guys put into these videos. 🙏 -Mk7 GTI track hound and German car lover

[@alexandram9477]

MPG on my last fill up was 20.6 MPG 80% city, calculated miles driven/amount of gas. The digital info readout seems 2-3 miles on the generous side. It's a 2022 BRZ Limited 6MT driven 60% of time with fuel economy in mind (short shifting).

[@markmiller3279]

Ouch! That's sad.

[@JasonISF]

That's terrible. Although my old 2014 BRZ wasn't great either!

[@alexandram9477]

@@JasonISF the car is a throwback sports car, could've engineered it to favor fuel economy but instead decided to favor squeaking out max performance, it's an amazing car for the money if you like light/well balanced RWD cars.

[@JasonISF]

@@alexandram9477 yes exactly, if I bought the 'new' BRZ I couldn't care less about the fuel economy as it would only be a weekend or track car anyway. My daily driver does 50 mpg.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

I'm seriously stunned at the difference a track focused set of tires makes. It proves once again why tires should be the first physical mod to any car.

[@wrongcheese]

Tires, suspension and brakes are the first things to do on a road to track car

[@chrisz5z]

Been getting 27mpg in my GR86, 90% highway. No complaints here.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

I use to get around 30 highways in my 2014 Mustang V6 little over 300 HP....they accomplished this with more dirty emissions so it was banned from sale without modification in California.

[@jamesinoregon1081]

Thank you for not playing crap music over everything. And thank you for not using hyperbole and crazy zooms and cartoon effects

[@Pik4chu985]

Thanks a lot for doing these in-depth updates on this platform!

[@TrojanRabbit521]

My BRZ just arrived after ordering in Dec. It was a nerve wracking wait because I ordered the car after your reviews but hadn’t seen one much less get a test drive. Never thought I would put down $30k without a test drive! Just gotta say is Thank You! The BRZ is everything I wanted in performance. Jack take all the time you want on these videos. I’ll be listening to help improve this amazing car

[@morbidelm2783]

how i wish i was in your position right now

[@mediocreman2]

If there's some of you guys that have some mechanical DIY ability that want this car, but can't afford it or don't want payments, check out the 128i with a manual. Get sport seats as well if you can. Yes you will need to do some maintenance and it will need more of it down the road. But for 1/4 the price, you get a fairly reliable inline 6 that actually sounds good, gets better MPG than the 86, and has lots of cheap brake and handling options from other BMWs, and with headers it sounds 1000x better the 86, and with 3 stage manifold and tune it's probably faster. Not only that, but it uses actual hydraulic steering and the feel is amazing.

[@ZealousWZephyr]

I'm sure you get complaints about how long your videos are (since you keep apologizing for it) so I'd like to come out and say that I appreciate the longer videos and your shared opinions. I may not currently be in the market, but I enjoy the topic and love the sharing of knowledge and experience (coming from a fellow "mortal") xD

[@andypacmanperez]

Very excited to see you guys start modding this thing. It's a bit lower on power than I'd like but I am toying around with the idea of getting one as a daily

[@Scott-mu4xw]

The turn signals didn’t take me long to get used to, I’ve been averaging 27mpg but I don’t redline it’s like you guys were doing, when that little arrow pops up to shift I shift.

[@jakeq3530]

Coil overs and a full exhaust will be my first two upgrades.

[@JDMFlipFlops]

I had to really stop and think about how I felt about the fuel economy. My old AP1 S2000 got about 18 city so I think that this shouldn't be a problem, I have confidence that I could make this work as a second car. Plus I really like the fact that it has a bigger interior with places to put your stuff.

[@takeit1229]

This is great and the GR86 is one of the cars on my track day/weekend list of potential buys (once we're into the depths of recession of course) I know tier lists aren't really your thing, but a track day/weekend sports car tier list would be helpful. I am especially curious if stepping up in price will make for a better car or using the same money on upgrades. ie. Tier examples on my list. GR86/ND2 or Golf R/GR Corolla/Type R or Supra/Nissan Z or Entry Porsche/Vette. Obviously a huge range here, but where is the money worth the upgrade and where is it better to spend on aftermarket upgrades.

[@hereigoagain5050]

Doesn't matter. No matter what you get, you will want more, and track days drain you piggy bank faster than dating.

[@jayjacaty3009]

Truth. Start with something with cheap cost of consumables. That often rules out Corvettes and the like. I also think it has to do with mindset as well. Don't go out trying to "win the track day". Focus on your driving, not turning it into a competition. Poof! You just saved yourself shitloads of money.

[@takeit1229]

Hahah hilarious and true answers. I should have added I have an NB Miata I keep throwing money at, but it's got some real issues creeping up now and I want to move to a newer platform. I also wanted something to double as a weekend car, but keeping it cheap and saving for all the costs associated with track running is probably still the way to go.

[@CounterSpaceGarage]

This project is coming together beautifully!

[@bucketfootbaseball]

Love seeing this update even if I have the first gen version!

[@HayateV3]

Shoutout to CounterSpaceGarage and their awesome customer service. Jasmin was an amazing rep and went above and beyond.

[@elithegreat6463]

“At Red Lobster enjoying an Admiral’s Feast” 🤣🤣👍‼️‼️

[@bobknight6394]

can you do an update video on the gr86 and the silicone in the oil uptake filter and possible engine failure.. no oil..!!!!!

[@jrzez]

Even though I ordered a Camaro SS 1LE for the track, I will still be following this series closely. I really enjoy these types of vids, and this channels in-depth analysis and delivery will be fantastic. PS - try to find a SS 1LE around you, it's not as crazy as a ZL-1, but it's been called a "cheater car" in SCCA clubs for a reason supposedly. And if you throw better tires on it, it's even more incredible naturally, but it starts doing some insane times. And it's suspension, NA power, greats shifting trans, chassis, and just enough power makes it very usable.

[@jackholmes8105]

I have actually been asking for s 1le for literally years

[@realbigtuna667]

I'd love one as a track only car. From a pure performance perspective, almost nothing comes close dollar for dollar. But for street, I can't justify it. My rub with the camaro is the lack of visibility. The side windows are literally the height of the length my hand and rear visibility is also seriously lacking. I could also barely get my duffel bag in the trunk due to the tiny opening. Unacceptable imo for a car as big as it is. The mustang doesn't have these problems. So, mustang GT for street, Camaro SS for track.

[@PiroFyre]

If you do autox with the SCCA, it's THE CAR to have for F Street class. And it doesn't just stop there as per the SCCA Solo rules, with all the current gen 1LEs, you can run camber bolts and gain -3 camber up front and still run in FS class. This is because the engineers managed to put in crash bolts in their repair manual and that made it legal per the rules. This is why they call it a cheater car because not many cars in that class nor other classes can get out to -3 camber from factory.

[@joe718gt4]

I wish I didn't give up mine

[@brownwhale5518]

No offense to you but do others like me get tired of people yacking about ‘track use’? Everyone doesn’t live an hour or less from a track that’s worth a crap. I certainly don’t. I’ve been considering a SS 1LE for a while now (probably won’t buy jack due to wife ‘hating cars’) but screw this ‘track use’ or ‘street use’ crap. To me if it’s a street legal then it’s NOT a ‘track car’. The term ‘track car’ is a word someone made up (marketers or people who were to poor to own a race car). Hell watch Nurburgring stuff during open days. All those cars are ‘track cars’ 😂.

[@chrisbelliston1042]

I just put my first 1200 miles on mine. It took 5 months to get mine on order. I also average 27.6 mpg. I live like .5 miles from work so most of my driving is in the mountains.

[@ramonellince2424]

Love the content, this has to be the most regular people automotive Chanel of all KZbin

[@timperros8163]

I have sold several of the new and old GR86’s while working for a dealer in the Chicagoland area. We dealer-traded for a (new gen) GR86 Premium AT in Milwaukee that I drove back around 125 miles (in January 2022) driving in intermittent stop-and-go traffic but all I-94 and I-294, averaging about 30.8 MPG. Top speed cruising was around 75mph using 93 octane.

[@kconfire]

I realize that the car was not about MPG to begin with but it's a bit unfortunate that it has such underwhelming fuel economy considering the power output. Also good to see CSG mentioned- I've gotten a lot of help from Mike a few yrs ago when I was still interested in modifying cars :)

[@12ealDealOfficial]

Car's too heavy, unfortunately. Too much tech. Aftermarket might be able to bring this car down for weight considerably.

[@markmiller3279]

@@12ealDealOfficial Moderate weight differences have little effect on highway fuel economy. Once a mass has been accelerated, it wants to keep moving, however large a mass it is. Fuel efficiency is determined by speed, aerodynamics, and to some extent the engine. Efficiency at 80 mph always suffers compared to lower speeds, so it's possible this could squeeze out 30 mpg at 50-60 mph. Some have noted that the short sixth gear means the engine is turning over needlessly fast at 80, and that is inefficient. I don't know the numbers, but that's certainly possible. It's why modern autoboxes are more efficient than manuals.

[@lucky889s9]

Subaru is not known to make fuel efficient engines, unlike toyota. Plus it's a boxer, it could never better inline for consumption

[@shakethedrummer2351]

Thank you so much for your videos, definately one of my favourite channels. Im always invigorated in my passion for sports cars and driving after watching your channel Im looking forward to more GR86 content

[@cdsprech]

Hey SG, another excellent video! Really shocked about highway mpg. Also, are those Apex wheels + RS4s what you're daily driving the car on? Or just the track only set?

[@kuladeeluxe]

I'm pretty sure a dsiciplined 65-70 MPH on the highway will return low 30's in MPG. I am burning about the same fuel overall as yours. I thought I'd hate the fake sound, but quite like it. I think the engine is marvelous. Always ready to do something. Glad those simple brake improvements get the desired results. Certainly cheap. On the street, I like the stock brakes. If I change mine, it willl be to probably go 225-45-17 on very light wheels. I wish the seats were better. I'd gladly pay more for that. Don't like how imprecise the backrest adjuster is. It would be nice if you could change the seat base angle. I'd also like less heat trapping fabric and firmer foam.

[@thomasgerth6414]

I have a BRZ Premium (Prius tires) with the manual, and I get 30-32 MPG on flatish interstate doing 75. Edit: After watching the whole video. The infotainment isn't bad when it works, but mine crashes at least once on a longer trip (1hr+). The stereo kinda sucks, but I'll upgrade that soon. The usability is great. I'm on a business trip right now that was close enough to drive my own car. I brought my golf clubs, a very large suitcase, and a gym bag. With the seats down it all fit no problem. I go to Costco in my BRZ all the time, and I've only had to put something in the front seat once. I haven't been on the track yet, but I love when some Explorer ST is riding my ass before a tight offramp and by the time I'm on the next highway they're completely out of my rearview. I did lose a highway pull to a C4 Corvette. I assume it wasn't stock because even the later ones (with the LT1) are supposed to have a similar 1/4 mile to the BRZ. Last thing, this car takes premium. If you drive a lot like I do, you're gonna figure out real quick which stations to go to for premium. Costco or Sam's Club will be your friend.

[@TheCldmstrsn]

That blue is so good! I almost like it as much as the Subaru WR Blue, I can't wait to get one of these. I'll probably go for the BRZ and wait to see if they come out with either a Ts or a performance package in a year or two.

[@murfenator82]

Is it going to be a typical subie boxer engine with ringland failure as soon as you push the power?

[@EchoSigma6]

Watching this video and imagining the aftermarket possibilities reminds me of the days before marriage, mortgage, and kids.

[@bradclash]

It looks amazing in that colour and with the aftermarket wheels

[@Loudest_Cricket_]

Everyday Driver also has a GT86 in this color, with gold OZ wheels, and it looks immaculate. These wheels look really good, EDDs wheels are damn near perfect.

[@_Makanko_]

Nice update video. I really liked Britt's involvement in discussing the car. Excited to see how this car (project) evolves and how you enjoy it.

[@jimiverson3085]

So, does the fluttering hood indicate that air is getting stuck under the car? Could be an argument for some sort of aftermarket hood vents. Apparently fuel economy is worse than a Civic Type R, not to mention worse than my 2010 Boxster S? That's disappointing. BTW, Mark should be able to store his Man Supplies in the compartment at the back/top of the central console in the S2000.

[@jacobleetech]

The turn signals work the SAME AS ANY OTHER TURN SIGNAL lmao it just doesn't stay in the up or down position when you're done turning it on. It is functionally the same as any other turn signal. People keep getting hung up on what it does after your hand leaves the stalk when it literally makes no difference because your hand isn't on it anymore. it's tripping people up psychologically, but there is no difference in function or interaction.

[@ak2112]

Just hit 3k on my 22 BRZ and I regularly get 25 mpg city (suburban Chicago driving) and when I add in some highway miles, I'll see 27 mpg. Calculated by me at every fill up, not the car.

[@mistamaog]

I love you that you calculated it instead of the car, too many people rely on the car's reading for their fuel economy rather than calculating it themselves

[@chrisz5z]

@@mistamaog yep, the calculation these car do is generous. In mine it's usually 1-2mpg higher than the actual. But, at the same time, the "remaining miles" is always way lower than it should be.

[@K03sport]

Subaru's mpg calculator is a least 10% high (at least it is in my WRX)...never had higher than 31, yet the car constantly says 33-35 on the tank and 34-38 during current drives (yes, I'm driving the actual limit on roads and being a moving road block in the right lane)...

[@GAMERIC5]

exactly just dont got 85mph like they describe in the video and you will get decent fuel economy

[@razorraysolarsavings70]

Lol gotta pay to play.

[@Nick22257]

I was absolutely ecstatic to get a gain of +8mpg average going from a tuned sti to a stock s2000, but I understand the desire for more. I wonder if an ls3 ND gets better mpg? Loved this review, i think with the recent scotus epa ruling there is still hope for the ecu to be cracked! Fingers crossed

[@thecorsentino]

wow. It actually sounds like an engine now. Admittedly, just a middling 4Cyl from the 90's that isn't Vtec, but still better than a knockoff dyson.

[@OverlandExposure]

+1 don't worry about length. Good video thanks. Look forward to more on the GR86.

[@kiefershanks4172]

The fuel economy is a pretty big problem for this car. I recently bought a new Corolla SE manual with the new 2.0 and I have driven an FR-S. While the M20A Dynamic Force engine in the Corolla doesn't have the same power, it is a remarkably good engine that makes good power with great efficiency. I can't help but think the FA24 is just old news and that strapping D4-S to it is not enough to make it efficient enough, especially in today's fuel market. This car needs something like the M20A. I realize gearing and a rear torsen diff are also very much to blame for the fuel economy issues but man, I really do think it's time to ditch the Subaru engines for a good i4. #makethe86acorollaagain

[@davidsucks922]

If you look at the numbers this engine is surprisingly good for an NA one. Estimated 240ish crank hp (based on 210-215 whp dynos done stock cars, engine is underrated by Toyota/Subaru) out of an NA 2.4L, meaning around 100hp/L, which isn't a figure to snark at. If the M20A was used, to get it to that level would likely have lead to greatly reduced efficiency as well, and in the end would have only matched the power of the last gen. Plus, some people have been getting 30mpg in these on the highway, like Topher, so seems like this engine is just more sensitive to different environments. Still, it's a sportscar so it's hard to claim mpg is a pretty big problem as most buyers know they're making that tradeoff going in, and buy it anyways

[@kiefershanks4172]

Agreed. The FA24 has some impressive stats. It is just baffling that the GR86 gets such bad mileage when it is such a lightweight, low profile car. But of course, the wild card here is that people have vastly different driving styles, skill levels, etc. It is hard to gauge without getting behind the wheel of a GR86 ourselves to see if it really is inefficient or if the people driving are really inefficient. My bet is probably the latter. I can beat the highway fuel economy rating of my Corolla easily (it's rated 6.5l/100km hwy and I can get it to 5.5 without much trouble). I bet I could do the same with the GR86 if given the chance.

[@joby602]

A torsen rear diff affects fuel economy?

[@kiefershanks4172]

Compared to an open diff, yes.

[@joby602]

@@kiefershanks4172 Interesting. I can't find anything online about how much.

[@shaunlunney7551]

glad to see this car getting the attention it deserves. keep this segment alive!

[@GAMERIC5]

I own the 22 BRZ. The mpg is actually not that bad assuming you don't go 80-85mph like they describe in the video. The gearing is very aggressive so its probably turning 3.5k to 4k at 85 if not more. I know the old car got better econ but bigger engine with more power with the same aggressive gearing is basically always going to mean worse fuel econ.

[@adamgroszkiewicz814]

I mean the bottom end of highway speeds is 75 mph. Don't understand why an OEM would produce a car with final drive gearing this bad...on a 4 banger even. With no turbo. Unreal.

[@MrNgMichael]

@@adamgroszkiewicz814 Depends where you are. I think posted Limits in Chicago metro are like 75-80 MPH max (people drive closer to 90), while Los Angeles is like 65 and people average (75-80). I think they put the final drive that high to get more acceleration to keep up with modern cars, especially since it's an NA. I think the engineers cared more about the performance numbers this time around, since people kept complaining about the first generation being sluggish. This car I think would work better for the people owning it in a metro area, since you're closer to gas stations for the small gas tank, but at the same time, they didn't want to put a turbo in it, otherwise it would canabilize the Supra sales.

[@GAMERIC5]

@@NeightrixPrime Shorter gearing means faster acceleration which is more important for a sports car than fuel economy. Not only that shorter gearing means its more engaging to drive since you get to do more shifting and the gears are closer together keeping you in the powerband. its not the manual thats gimped its the automatic that gets screwed.

[@VasyaIvanovichPupkin]

@@NeightrixPrime Agree. I annot think of a single reason why they would not make 6th longer to improve mpg. How often will you need that acceleration on top end? Even on track, the car is not powerful enough to "rip" through the 5th and need the 6th for acceleration. I cinsider this a missed opportunity.

[@idokwatcher2062]

Yeah it's really not that bad if you don't drive the car.

[@enigma787]

The video is not long at all, a lot of good information for future and current owners.

[@hatteras33]

I have the auto, it’s taller gearing definitely helps for the road trip mileage. If I am cruising at 80-85 I get about 29-30. 55-65 I’m almost at 40 mpg.

[@joseacuna3239]

I like this video because this is what most of the buyers are going to do with this car, so become highly usable for a future buyer.

[@isserdigan2835]

My 3.4L Flat six Cayman GTS does 35 mpg in the highway.

[@Vasquez19781]

SOOO EXCITED!!! Just purchased a 2023 86 Premium Toyota Red manual!!! Comes in next week!!! Manuals are sold before they even show up at the dealer but not today!!!! I FINALLY got one!!!😮‍💨😮‍💨😮‍💨❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️. Wish you could add pics on here. Mad I didn’t get to test drive it but OMG can’t wait to see it! Not even 3 miles on it (they said). Traded in my 2015 Blue FR-S…hate to see her go but love to see her replaced!! 😂😂😂❤️❤️❤️🙋🏾‍♀️🙋🏾‍♀️🙋🏾‍♀️

[@neurokinetik64ES]

The most disappointing thing for me on this car is the lack of suspension alignment capability without having to buy aftermarket parts. This is inexcusable on a car that was designed from the outset to be a driver's car, very likely to see track and autocross usage, especially when even SUVs and minivans by GM and Hyundai/Kia have it. It's the one thing they still haven't fixed from the first generation car, and I don't miss my 2013 even a little.

[@savagegeese]

Its annoying. Last car was same way as well.

[@TheChannel1978]

I'm sure the engineers knew but the bean counters won that one

[@josiahaustin9749]

got super lucky and snagged a premium MT for sticker 2 months ago, absolutely love it!

[@gryphon123456]

"we keep getting crappy fuel mileage!' *proceeds to peel around every corner and stomps the pedal when taking off from a stop. lol. gee I hope you figure it out...

[@cartere9981]

They do get pretty terrible economy compared to comparable cars

[@invertedv12powerhouse77]

​​@@cartere9981the big spoilers on the skirts probably dont help i find the sweet spot for me is at 110ish km/h.

[@megatrolltrollington]

@gryphon123456 i think you missed the point they made about most other cars in the same class getting better mileage given the same driving conditions.

[@just.a.simplejoe]

Definitely looking forward to the modding video on this car - and I don't even own one, I'm a mx5 ND owner and curious how the platform reacts to current aftermarket parts!!

[@vagabond1776]

MPG is pretty despicable for a NA 4cyl, especially with only 228Hp. Hopefully Subaru will introduce an updated motor sooner than later.

[@benoitbricet8885]

you mean a B59 ?

[@benoitbricet8885]

or 3jz ?

[@vagabond1776]

@@benoitbricet8885 anything that can hit at least 30mpg hwy. 20/27 is terrible for the manual. Toyota/Subie may benefit from following Honda’s lead with a smaller displacement turbo motor, but with more reliability.🤪

[@Alex-ck4in]

@@vagabond1776 pretty much the whole point of the BRZ/86 is that it's N/A, wouldnt count on that happening anytime soon... This MPG is standard Subaru efficiency... Its probably spraying half that fuel it uses through cracks in the case 😂

[@benoitbricet8885]

@@vagabond1776 more expensive, a lot. My opinion in this matter, they did okay. No cost explosion in the midst of inflation, slight power and torque boost, no negative effect on the balance. The next rcfupra will fix it.

[@Briguy288]

Great update video. How does this car compare to the civic Si and GTI? In terms of driver engagement and track times?

[@Affalterbach1967]

SavageGeese 50th Anniversary video Blueray set release is going to have Kodak moments like 6:46 snuck in.

[@erickelly4107]

I'm a big fan of the BRZ / GR86 and they were at the top of my list when deciding what car I was going to purchase but in the end I went with a 2021' Mazda MX-5 Miata soft top (113lbs lighter vs. the RF) Club w/ Recaro / Brembo / BBS wheel package. Reasons for my decision: 1.) MPG - The ND2 Miata is incredibly fuel efficient easily achieving the stated 26/34/30 combined EPA rating which is MUCH better than the 18/26/21 combined rating for the BRZ / GR86. Seriously an additional ~ 9MPG is NOT nothing, especially in the times we are living. 2.) The fact that the ND2 was built from the ground up as a convertible (not first as a coupe that was later butchered to become a convertible..) is something that simply can't be replicated in a coupe, there's nothing like driving with the top down especially on a beautiful day. 3.) Engine - The reworked N/A 2.0L engine that now resides in the ND2 Miata is marvelous, its sounds great and absolutely LOVES being revved to its 7500RPM redline. Sure it could be more audible but this is not difficult nor super expensive to remedy. Also the engine is located behind the front axle meaning its technically "mid-engine" and you can feel it in how amazingly well balanced (~50/50) the car is. 4.) Weight - The ND2 Miata is a whopping ~ 450lbs lighter (2340lbs vs. ~ 2800lbs.) than the BRZ/ GR86 and this can be felt everywhere and makes the car extremely responsive and confidence inspiring, not to mention contributing to the rather Steller fuel economy by comparison an mentioned. 5.) Fun to drive everywhere - Sure "out of the box" the ND2 isn't setup to be an optimal "track car" but this is easily and inexpensively remedied so a total non-issue as far as I'm concerned. It's far more important that the car is fun and rewarding to drive day to day not just gong balls to the walls around a track (something less than 1% due on a regular basis.). If you want to track the car simple things like stiffer sway bars, sticker tires, etc. and you have a car that is far more capable on track. 6.) Daily driver - Well none of the cars in this category are necessarily optimal as "daily drivers" but if you can "daily drive" a BRZ / GR86 than you can probably do the same with an ND2 Miata. That tiny rear seat in the BRZ / GR86 is really the only real "advantage" in terms of "daily drivability" so unless this is for whatever reason the "make or break" issue for you than there's no reason you can't just as well "daily drive" an ND2. So this argument that you can't "daily drive" an ND2 simply doesn't make much sense to me, in fact it makes MORE sense to "daily drive" an ND2 giving how much more fuel efficient it is by comparison, it's far more economical. Not to mention you can enjoy the open environment and enjoy the health benefits of additional sun exposer (Vitamin D FTW). To be fair however I will say a lot of it "depends" as to where you live and your own personal situation in life, I for example live in Florida and I'm a single guy with not much need for a ton of cargo space so if you live farther up North for example and or simply need the extra bit of cargo space the benefits I outlined probably won't be as attractive but nonetheless there are many benefits (cons as well obviously). Regardless, all said and done you really can't lose with any of these cars as they are all: BRZ /GR86/ ND2 phenomenal in terms of what you get for the money.

[@dawnpoint]

That MPG is just bizarre. My V8 Lexus averages 23 on my commute and I can get 27 highway no problem with nearly double the motor.

[@David25512]

Hell yeah guys! Been subbed since the old FRS got boosted. Unobtainium now, but everything will come together. Just chomping at the bit till the world is not on fire

[@nlxsteve]

For a car this new, I'm shocked at how much brown I'm seeing under the body. Yes, it's surface rust, but man they develop quickly on Subaru's.

[@beexiong2995]

The new nissan frontier has similar rust issues if not worse. Living in salt covered roads during the winter, no car is exempt from rust i guess.

[@EnhancedTrashBin]

To be fair, most people would replace it anyway as one of their first mods.

[@qx4n9e1xp]

Very excited to see what you guys have in store for GR86 modifications. Modifying cars is a whole other world to car ownership, and adds to the journey if you're an enthusiast. If you guys ever think it will be a good idea, maybe you guys could also get into radar detectors. It's a very good, practical mod that will keep young baboons out of trouble, and a little more aware of the boys in blue coming to take their bananas. Some of the top dogs that come to mind are the Uniden R8, Escort 360 Redline, & Valentine One V2. Fair, warning, they're a little costly, but they might make a good video, possibly for a tech Wednesday, if Mark ever feels like investing in trying them out for the channel. I'm shopping for one right now, and from doing research, there's a lot to them, and a lot of difference between brands that may make for interesting content.

[@nickfitzgerald2604]

Still torn on this or a Z, not sure how much twisty roads I'll really get and would do a decent amount of 100 mile round trip commutes highway, so the extra oomph might be better than a great small track car.

[@jackholmes8105]

If you arent turning the wheel often and the price delta doesnt bother you buy the z.

[@nickfitzgerald2604]

@@jackholmes8105 I've been chosen! Yeah, I think the main thing is the market of getting anything is such shit. Ordered a maverick in January still waiting. Sold my F type to fund 5 acre homestead, so that's the other consideration is I think I'll miss not having something remotely as urgent as the V8 F Type, almost think I should swallow my disgust and go Camaro/GT500 etc, but I was hoping to step backwards a little on pricepopint.

[@zzanatos2001]

You can get the GR86 and have fun for $30,000, or you can get the Z and have the same amount of fun for $50,000.

[@razorraysolarsavings70]

Get the GR86, affordable fun. Period.

[@OrionInception]

86! Way cheaper but do your research about the paint job on these cars. I'm reading alot of owners saying it's weak and gets ruined easily.

[@mikezerker6925]

Britt Casey is a great addition to the video! Looking forward to more from you guys!

[@areebr.7612]

If I could actually buy a car right now, this would definitely be the car. It was going to be either this or the Z and the Z is 45k+ CAD so that's too expensive lmao

[@cayman9873]

Z has a better engine.. steering on the z is still not great

[@areebr.7612]

@@cayman9873 Oh yea 100% the ttv6 is way better but the z has some cooling things as well

[@patthonsirilim5739]

@@cayman9873 but the gr is probably more fun to drive and the fact it's am na and lightweight sports its definitely a better driver car.

[@Dara321AAA]

@@cayman9873 that's always been the argument going back to frs/gt86 vs 370z. If you dont have curvy back roads or just want something that isn't going to get left at a traffic light go Z, if you want more of a connected feel and have some curvy back roads go frs/gt86. Those aren't hard guidelines, but more generalized for the average person cross shopping both cars.

[@BigHeadClan]

They Z did just release they may include the detuned 300hp version of the engine at some point. Would probably be in the high 30s in Canada.

[@MyGoToUserName]

These things are quick even stock at auto-x with the PS4 tires optioned. I ran with one a couple days ago and it was 3-4th in class which was really impressive

[@jrfish007]

Looks like the ND2 is a better choose unless you need back seats

[@Closertotruth2]

I bought one 3 months ago. Tons of fun, topless if you like that which I do. Over 30 mpg easily.

[@mehdimohamed6291]

Y’all some of the best in the biz man.