Toyota pickup or 4Runner w/ 22RE - WATER IN OIL WTF? Loose timing chain tensioner & cover "failure"

[@phazerboy]

Makes sense when you see it.

[@alvaroeloredo]

Highly educational video here. Thanks for sharing. My 1990 pickup has 113k so hoping I want have to do it to soon, i will be happy if it last me 200k. I did not know about the dual timing chain upgrade, so i will be going with that option when it is time.

[@ray5961]

Yeah, the dual row update is nice. The main thing with the single row you have now is to keep an eye on the plastic chain guides on both sides - you can check them when you remove the valve cover to adjust the valves. Those have a bad habit of snapping and/or fracturing where they secure to the block. You can usually reach down and see if they are broken with your finger or like a screw driver and mirror. The dual row kit uses the older metal backed guides, which never break. It's definitely a super nice upgrade - be careful of the bolt that goes down through the front of the head to the cover when you remove stuff (it's hidden by oil). Also, the bolt that comes in most of the kits for that location is usually a few mm too long, so you have to measure everything and adjust the length to avoid ripping threads out. The dual row timing chain should go 300k+ miles whereas the single row is more like 200K +/- kinda thing usually.

[@alvaroeloredo]

@@ray5961 that's all great information, however I don't believe I would want to tackle this job myself. I would probably take it to someone, looks like a time consuming job.

[@ray5961]

@@alvaroeloredo It's a bit of a job for sure, especially with the motor in and/or if you have P/S or A/C, etc. In the case of my friend's truck there, I talked him into dumping the power steering and A/C, which helped a lot when it came time to do the front cover. Even so, it turned out to be a rather involved job. Lots of cleaning and prep work to have it all come off 100% perfect in the end.

[@alvaroeloredo]

@@ray5961 luckily for me my truck did not come equipped with power steering, but it did come with A/C which I'm thankful for lol. I don't think you could talk me into deleting my A/C these Texas summers are brutal my man lol.

[@ray5961]

@@alvaroeloredo All my ex's live in Texas (Houston to be exact); I hear A/C is quite popular out there. Be glad you don't have all that P/S BS haha. I was never so happy to throw anything in the trash as all that stuff. My truck didn't come with A/C, at least I don't believe it did. When I drive through 100 degree temps, it's definitely windows down haha.

[@scrappyjackalope9558]

Measure the chain stretch per the toyota manual.. doesn't take long. I tell people this since most of the time the chain is in spec and the tensioner pad is the largest problem. I have changed no less that 30 of these. And Lc's kit is great as well as 22re performance. Take the pan off and clean the pickup. Most of the time the pickup will be 3/4 blocked with guide material. Anyways this is not a problem in my book. In order for the chain to wear through the cover the owner listened to the chain slap for 40k miles. Just a gross lack of maintenance..

[@ray5961]

All good points. I'm going to run a bore scope into the pan and look around to check the condition of the strainer. Not really wanting to drop the pan on this job. I'll tell you what, the stretch on this chain was pretty major; you could lift the chain up and there was so much slack you could almost skip it forward a tooth.

[@scrappyjackalope9558]

@Ray Nada the chain being loose and the chain being stretched are 2 different things. In the Factory manual there are instructions on how to measure the actual stretch in the chain. Basically a pin to pin measurement over so many li ks, why 11 sticks in my mind i dont know...lol.... I like to measure this because most I have done the chain itself is actually with in tolerance and I have found most times it is the tensioner pad alone that is the only thing alone making the chain loose. It makes no difference either way as you are replacing it all anyways but I figured you may be the type that could appreciate the exact things taking place. Of the 30 or so 22re timing chains I have replaced there have been zero that didn't need cleaning out. There is only one place the plastic guide pieces go and that is in the pan. And of course like I said most of the time a good amount is on the screen already. You can only imagine the potential oil starvation problems this causes. Doing this job correctly means cleaning out the pan.. Another thing that only time will tell is bearing condition at this point. I have had more than 1 22re that at this point where there was already bearing damage from running milkshake oil for too long and having the screen plugged up with guide material. You find this out when you do your first start 😀

[@ray5961]

@@scrappyjackalope9558 All great info, thanks! I'm going to pull the plug out of the main oil galley tomorrow and see how things look. On this particular motor, no way to know for sure how long this milkshake situation was going. Once we had the truck under our control, we dumped the oil as outlined in the video, etc. Good point about stretch vs. loose. I do believe there is going to be part of the guides in the oil pan, as I saw part of it already hanging out in that opening below where the cover bolts up. I know more soon.

[@aerialrescuesolutions3277]

I read both your comments Scrappy, well said and accurate as well. Pull the pan. I removed the head and the pan when I did mine, and yes, I put a dual-row chain in. Plastic is junk folks.

[@jimmybob6740]

Same here. Pull your pan, and put metal guides in to solve the problem for good before you put it back together. If you want to work on CV axles or the front diff as well, nows the time.

[@anthonyhigham3713]

Thanks .i think i found my problem

[@Mr2eyedjack]

Years back I had the same issue, the chain had worn a small hole through the water passage and I thought it was a head gasket. I had the engine Rebuilt. But had the milkshake again. Pressure testing the cooling system reviled it was the timing cover had a hole. Lesson learned. 1200 dollars later. Lol..

[@ray5961]

Oh ouch lol. Yeah, that sounds like it was a fun adventure. haha

[@Mr2eyedjack]

@Ray Nada yeah but it was a pricy one. But it ran better. Lol.. that truck was my first decent vehicle there was 150K on it but now it's closer to 400K I still have it. I like toyota, my wife and daughter, Booth Drive, and we bought my son a first gen 4 runner, I have 2 custom cabs 4x4. One is getting ready to get back on the road. My oldest son has a 5th gen truck. So lots of toys in the family. My dad got me hooked on them. Tha ks for your videos I'll be working on the truck 1 by 1. I see some of the mods you have done. I'll be referring back to your work. Thanks again. 👍

[@ray5961]

@@Mr2eyedjack That's awesome man. Yeah I'm gonna get my kids into Toyotas also. Both my son and daughter are gonna have to rebuild the motors on their first cars before they are allowed to drive :-)

[@pedroorozcoparra4248]

dang give me that "scrap"

[@lexannaamnell6593]

The only actual design flaw here was Toyota's effort to save a dollar... The only thing that goes wrong here usually, is the plastic guide breaks. And in this design the guides actually are part of the tension so when that plastic guide breaks the chain flops around no matter how much tension the tensioner puts on... And as another commenter pointed out, they drove for a good long time listening to that chain slap against the cover. It's still baffles me why a manufacturer and /or engineers would even allow plastic to be used in a vital part, I mean really, did they say that much money going with plastic opposed to metal?

[@ray5961]

Yeah, I totally agree with everything you've said. Not an area where plastic would help anything.

[@MrStevoovets]

Couldn't agree more. New metal guides from lCE are literally 80 bucks.Designed obsolescence I guess.

[@lexannaamnell6593]

On a side note, not too hijack or change the subject but it's seems like there's fairly knowledgeable people here and I can't find anything on the internet about it so I thought I would just throw it out here... Is anyone familiar with the TPS sensors? I have two and they both seem to function but I'd like to have one as a backup. They have different part numbers which according to the internet the part numbers are interchangeable but it also have a four digit alphanumeric number. The one currently in my 22RE is M125, The other TPS I have has P125. Does anyone know what this four digit number represents?

[@ray5961]

@@lexannaamnell6593 I believe the M125 is off the Camry, while the P is more like the 4Runner and Pickup. The 22RE, as you probably know, was used in passenger cars also. You can spend your entire life trying to figure out Toyota part numbers :) As long as the ohm readings from both TPS switches fall in line with the shop manual, you should be fine.

[@damiandavies4632]

When you reinstalled the timing cover, what did you put up top near the head gasket, where the cover and head gasket meet? RTV? Curious, cause I have a '93 and I'm about to reinstall my timing cover and wasn't sure what/if I should put anything up top to prevent leaks.

[@ray5961]

Yes, I used RTV Ultra black sealant up in there. That's the main sealant I use on my motor. The grey stuff doesn't adhere as well as the Ultra Black. Here is the one I use here and where I usually buy it - www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002UEN1U/ - nothing gets past this stuff. I use it to seal my oil pan also. Works fantastic. On the specific area you are talking about, I just put it on both sides of the part of the head gasket that is hanging out and make sure to push the RTV back into the corners with a tooth pick or something. Install the front cover and seal everything up and wipe away any RTV that squeezes out. I also use that along the bottom edge of the timing cover where it meets the oil pan. 12 to 24 hours and you should be good to go.

[@damiandavies4632]

@@ray5961 Thank you so much. One last question, did you apply the RTV and cork gasket with your oil pan or just the RTV? Also, I took your advice and splurged on buying those Toyota Service Manuals on E-Bay. You have the best channel for this 22RE!!!!

[@ray5961]

@@damiandavies4632 Thanks! I appreciate that. I do not use the cork gasket stuff, no. I install the pan directly to the block with Ultra Black RTV sealant only. Put the pan on, lightly thread the bolts in, let the RTV set up for around 60 minutes, then do the final torque. That cork gasket will ruin your day; I never use it.

[@helenparris9974]

So is there any saving the engine at this point? I think this is what is going on with my truck. And sorry if that's a stupid question, I am new to this and get a 22r to start learning

[@ray5961]

Typically this is a symptom of a 22R/E motor which has high miles on the original timing chain. Do you happen to know how many miles are on the motor? As far as saving the motor - if you are seeing water in the oil - you wanna first confirm it's not from a blown head gasket first (do a compression check). It also depends on how long all this has been going on. But if you catch it early enough, yes you should be able to save the motor. Generally speaking, the 22R is a very robust engine and can handle a certain level of abuse. I would change the oil and filter immediately and add some head gasket stop leak to the coolant (this can actually seal the internal pin hole inside the timing chain cover short term and buy you some time in some cases). If you can get the internal pin hole leak to seal up, then change the oil and filter and see if the issue returns. You do not wanna drive around too much with frothy oil, but typically the engine can handle that for a brief period of time without a catastrophic failure. It may wear the bearings a bit more, but as long as you change the oil quickly and get on top of making repairs with a new timing chain cover, generally speaking you can save the motor. Feel free to let me know if you have any further questions on anything and good luck!

[@helenparris9974]

@@ray5961 You are very helpful. The truck has 268k miles. I was actually taking it to a mechanic when it started blowing white smoke and running rough. I had just bought it so I was taking it to have a good look over. I turned it off right there and had it towed the remaining distance to the mechanic. They did a pressure test, and looked perfect, except one cylinder was misfiring. I am travelling out of town right now, so the truck has been sitting with no repairs since that incident for ~2 weeks. The previous owner did not know if the timing chain / chain guide had been replaced. My first thing to do when I get home is check that the timing chain / guide looks ok. The mechanic I took it to said that the carb may just need to be adjusted and that's why it was blowing smoke. I'm not too sold on his theory, but it's on my list. The oil looks good, even under the cap. The coolant in the radiator is clean, but the reservoir is pretty dirty. When I took the car to the mechanic the reservoir was empty and they filled it up, so I think that the reservoir was just dirty, because the truck hasn't been run since the reservoir was filled. Sorry if this is too much info word vomit haha, your video is one of the few detailed documentations of this specific issue, and I bought the car to learn, so I'm trying to get a good grasp on what these symptoms may mean.

[@ray5961]

@@helenparris9974 Hey man, no problem at all with the length of the message - I'm more than happy to help out if I can over comments or email directly if needed (my address is in the about tab of the channel, so feel free to email me there if you wish). When my buddy and I bought the truck featured in this video, it was much the same situation as you describe. We did a compression check and quickly realized it was likely not a blown head gasket. Lots of milk shake in the oil though. We made it approximately 1 mile to AutoZone and blanketed both lanes with so much white smoke that people had to wait for the smoke screen to clear behind us. Fun times. We got to AutoZone and I dumped the oil - my friend made it back home, but the milk shake reappeared rapidly. He put head gasket sealer in as a possible counter measure against an internal head gasket failure and that ironically stopped the pin hole leak. We must have changed the oil on that motor 4 times in 4 weeks to help protect it. Incidentally, he had I believe 270K miles, which was enough time stretch the timing chain and destroy the guides (it's pretty easy to check to see if the guides are shot by removing the valve cover by the way; you can peak down in there with a flash light and see if they are still there or broken, etc. Did you happen to see my other video showing my friend's guides in his oil pan? As far as an overly rich carb mixture spewing white/blue smoke out the tail pipe, not gonna happen. White smoke generally equals blown head gasket or some level of water intrusion into the combustion chamber - if water mixes w/ the oil, some amount will slip past the rings and/or be sucked into the PCV system and then you'll be belching clouds of smoke down the road. Excessive oil into the cylinders will also do it (again typically a blown head gasket). If someone recently did a compression check and squirted too much oil into the cylinders (for a wet compression check) that oil can find its way into the exhaust system and create a similar scenario, however generally the oil finds its way to the muffler and pools there; then oil blows out at stops but otherwise no smoke while driving. Eventually that oil burns off and you are okay again. If the coolant reservoir was empty, that's not a good sign. It can indicate loss of coolant is occurring somewhere inside the system. From how you describe your particular situation, it sounds like you stopped it plenty early enough. I would just be very careful here as you proceed. If there is a water leak in the head gaskets, water can leak into the cylinders and then if you so much as crank the motor, you will hydrolock it and bend a rod (or the rod generally will go through the side of the block and destroy the motor). I would make darn sure you have a highly skilled mechanic in the mix here. You definitely do not want to crank the motor until you remove all 4 spark plugs and do further investigation here. I would also suggest removing the valve cover and visually inspecting the timing chain and guides. If the timing chain is super loose that would point towards the pin hole issue in the front cover, which is fairly straightforward to resolve if caught early. If compression across all four cylinders is within limits, that generally points to everything being okay w/ the motor. I would also inspect the plugs for signs of burned on oil, etc. Please feel free to contact me either here or directly as much as you need to help resolve your situation with the motor over there! :)

[@helenparris9974]

@@ray5961 Thank you for your reply. This is exactly what I was hoping for when picking out the 22r - is a supportive community of people who a more than happy to help each other. I’ll be back home in a few days and check out all of the things you just mentioned. If it’s ok to email you then I will do so if any other questions arise.

[@ray5961]

@@helenparris9974 For sure man... email is on the channel tab there some place.

[@itsgatormane]

Time for 3rz swap. I had to rebuild my 22re and had a very hard time finding oem toyota parts

[@ray5961]

You ain't kidding!

[@itsgatormane]

@@ray5961 I know 😂. I had to use a mixture of dorman parts and Chinese, which I don’t like. I should have just swapped for the 3rz. Hell even the 2rz has slightly more power and tq. The parts are still around and plenty

[@ray5961]

@@itsgatormane Yeah, the 2/3RZ is a nice swap. Most of the 22RE OEM parts are still available through eBay or LCE, etc. but they tend to be rather costly. Depends on the part also of course. As long as you stick to Denso or AISIN usually you are okay. Dayco also is good. Dorman is where things start getting a little dicey :)

[@itsgatormane]

@@ray5961 i could not find a new oem 22re cam.

[@ray5961]

@@itsgatormane Yeah, you probably aren't gonna find one of those. I run Webcams here. If you need a stock cam (or near stock), call Webcams and talk with Faith, she can hook you up with something nice and as good or better than OEM. LCE also sells their stuff as well as the OEM rocker arms you'll want to run.