Prototype groupset problems: L-TWOO eGR update

For the last few weeks I have been testing a prototype groupset from a Chinese company called L-TWOO.
It's a 12 speed electronic gravel groupset, and in a previous episode, I found some issues with the waterproofing:
• An OUTSTANDING groupse...
However, once it dried out it was fully functional again, so for the last few weeks i have been using it quite a lot. It is fantastic when it works, but unfortunately I encountered another problem while on an MTB trail.
Part of the hanger snapped off, meaning the derailleur was not properly supported. L-TWOO have apparently fixed the problem, so I'll have to wait until I get my hands on the final retail version.

[@nigelw.9043]

Shout out to L-Twoo for sending out a prototype product into the open knowing that issues found would be made public. I am certain Shimano, Sram and Campi all go through these issues when developing a new groupset but the wider public never hears of these.

[@philipsimmonds1103]

That's how chinese businesses work ..

[@matt_acton-varian]

Guaranteed. Any new technology will almost always come across failures and issues that are fixable for the final product launch. Big companies are secretive about it because if consumers and competitors knew the failure rate of some products at alpha stage (and its costs) it could have a detrimental impact to a brand's image and stock value, even though its a necessary process. It's a shame because public beta testing like this ( and I think Luke is doing a brilliant job) gives consumers the opportunity to see what an emerging brand is capable of in regards to product development. It gives an insight into the brand's ethos, and it also gives consumers confidence in what to expect from a production version. Di2 is in It's Mk4 version and they have got years of R&D paperwork to fall back on, alongside a brand name that has 100 years of history, so a Mk1 L-Twoo, a smaller unknown brand will have quirks but if you can see past that you can see the potential for a decent product. I await the details of the product development with great anticipation, because L-Twoo are really having a good crack at the market.

[@invisiblescout6335]

crazy how you can get beta testing for free when youre not afraid of sending out faulty product huh?

[@matt_acton-varian]

@@invisiblescout6335 Employing your own beta testers and keeping things quiet is much more expensive. For any company trying to disrupt an existing market dominated by very expensive products, cutting costs without cutting functionality in any way possible makes it easier to deliver a compatible product that significantly undercuts the price point. The transparency in what Luke is doing also means that these brands have public accountability for ensuring that the production model fixes the problems found at the test stage. If it doesn't they will likely not sell well or at all, and go out of business. They don't have brand legacy or reputation like their competitors who have decades of products, and World tour wins, under their belts. And if you think that Shimano Di2 didn't have any failure at testing stage, give me some of what your smoking, it sounds strong.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

When bigger players like let's say, SRAM or Shimano, release half baked overpriced crappy products reviewers usually find all sorts of excuses. That's part why I choosed to run TRP and microshift drivetrains, they have something to prove, to improve on...

[@santiagobenites]

You're not only a cyclist and a vlogger, Luke. You're a test rider AND a research scientist as well, testing, studying and analyzing less expensive Chinese parts and component options, and publishing your results for the benefit of cyclists everywhere! Thank you for your service, and happy holidays! Cheers! 🎄😁

[@richiejames928]

Yup. Doing all the research and development for them… for free.

[@luminodotcity]

Respect for L-Twoos' MO and your videos! If they keep making 11-speed mechanical and rim brake, they will always have a special place in many hearts, and wallets.

[@habanerooperations8432]

This. We're an OEM and are offering both Sensah and LTWOO mechanical groupsets- no issues other than a bit of trimming experience needed for the 12 speeds. In general, love the quality but especially the transparency and ability to get parts without huge expense and most of all interoperability on the HG hubs.

[@thiosemicarbizidebenzoylal2921]

This is beyond excellent consumer testing and reporting of VERY possibly the end of high priced groupsets. Because this thing could easily be comp ready once they work out the problems.

[@howardkeylin5627]

I have been a quality engineer for 25 years. I like to think I have developed an eye for detail over the years. With that in mind…I have never been impressed by L-Twoo’s offerings in all the versions you have tested. They present as less than and they try to be more than they should be. I won’t be putting any of their stuff on my bikes any time soon. That said I am on to my second Sensah groupset and their products have never disappointed me. They just work. I have sram red on my road bike and Sensah srx 12 speed on my gravel bike. There is a minimal difference in performance and reliability between the two. Sensah gets 5 baguettes 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@lancewood1410]

But you would happily use a China made smartphone or computer to do your internet banking :)

[@howardkeylin5627]

@@lancewood1410 wtf are you talking about? Your response has zero to do with my comment.

[@anshumansahoo4869]

he is an idiot who doesn't understand your comment, he seems to not even know that even sensah is a Chinese brand and thinks you are just thrashing L-Twoo because it's Chinese

[@TheAnde1337]

I Think failing is a normal way when something new is invented. But it is an Prototype for testing, it is designed for test an probably failing. L-Twoo can learn a lot of these and hopefully make it better in the final version. I like it too how transparent L-Twoo is with the prototype and how you can show us all of the pro and cont's. I hope my English is not to bad. Greetings from Germany.

[@williamstevens2382]

Your English is better than most native speakers writing on the internet!

[@James_R_]

It's smart of L-Twoo to provide transparency through great reviewers in the cycling medium which targets their likely customers. It give me more faith in the brand that they are willing to include the public when it comes to development. Things always go wrong during development and often soon after release for many products. I am planning to buy this group set for a 1x road setup soon hopefully but not too soon of course.

[@BeyReaper]

Oh ya I'm seriously considering doing a full ali express gravel bike build once these come out, but L-Twoo is you're reading my comment PLEASE take the Noctua approach to the engineering and let the engineers have the time they need to bring to market a fully finished group set. Please listen to them about the time requirements that they say they need. If you could do that I would be so happy.

[@alexanderlawson1649]

I've had products fail on me and realised that proper field testing could not have been carried out. Its easy to get stuff operating in a lab environment, out in the real World is a different story. Its good to see that you are testing LTWOO, stuff, along with others as its only through that process, problems come to light. So respect to LTWOO for doing some proper product testing.

[@paulmiddo8552]

The R&D that you provide to the company and consumers is priceless 👍

[@cup_and_cone]

3:31- I love your optimism to think there will be a "final retail version"...as if there won't be continuous production changes and/or new faults discovered.

[@whizler]

Anyone else get a little thrilled when some unusual sound or issue affects Luke's bikes? It means we're in for another 🥖🥖🥖🥖 video!!

[@robertcollins4685]

Good job Luke! By doing this testing, and ltwoo not having to hire testers and pay them, you are helping to provide a reasonably priced group set to the entire planet!!!

[@glennoc8585]

In a coybtry as vast as china is they'd have no shortage of testers. The product isnt really cheap enough for the masses still

[@galacticdinosauronline]

I'm definitely gonna buy this gravel group set once it's ready. Just keep up a good price!

[@GGGMotovlog]

trace velo single handledly give a honest review about the development of L-Twoo giving them a good name.

[@robbijay]

Get genuinely excited to watch this channel when a new episode comes out. Love these reviews, although it’s a shame they use public for beta testing, same as certain big software companies…

[@anonymouskomentar783]

thanks Luke, for being a part of LTwoo development.. unofficially ofcouse. but your videos and tested their products is really help them, and also us as customer..

[@leissp1]

So far L-TWOO seems to have some quality control issues. I'm glad that you can do real world testing before consumers run into issues. Hopefully L-TWOO listens and provides quality products.

[@michaeltsui3435]

Its more of a design oversight. But yeah why B screw if we can lock the derailleur in place?

[@worldcitizenoss]

It's always nice to be beta tester. You are the first to see, test and help to improve a product. If I understand this correctly. You test this product, you can keep it and you get the final product for free. Ltwoo doesn't tell you what you can and can't say. You make money on your channel by testing this product. I think it's a good deal. About Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo they have much more experiance. Thier development cycle is very much longer. And they probably test in house. At the end the product is much more expensive.

[@rascal1234]

That is an innovative fix. I might use that for a similar problem I have for an Ultegra deraileur. AND that was not a beta unit. So, design mistakes can be made by majors as well.

[@michelebaroni7823]

Only respect for you and L-Twoo. That's the right way to do things, they learned form the eRX mistakes. How about the 50t cassette? Did the eGR handled it just fine? And also: when will you review the final product? I'm sure many of us are waiting for that! Keeep up the good work! You contents are very well put together!

[@bradsanders6954]

We all appreciate you testing this experimental stuff, in real life I would be walking home from 15 miles a way if things broke like this. The folks who build these things really should be testing it themselves, or they should maybe know what works from the start. Normal everyday shimano GRX works SO nice.

[@n0b0dy07]

I got manual derailleur from Ltwoo, smooth, precise and very quick changing gears, very easy to adjust, honestly the best option so far

[@FL-ym6hm]

Maybe this time they won’t release a product before it is ready. Kudos to you Luke.

[@eLpELoNdeJaPoN]

If i recall it correctly the reason of that design ia to avoid the RR hitting the frame so its correct to make the adjustment you did coz won't interrupt the normal way of shifting. Great job Jefe! 🎉

[@stuartdryer1352]

Eventually they will have a good product. Thanks for sacrificing so many rides testing stuff.

[@jimbrittain402]

Just adding a comment to push the algorithm. Luke, you're doing great work, and you're a boon to those of us who are willing to try new stuff. SO many thanks!

[@stephenbetley9596]

The joys of prototype testing. Not all bad really. We get to see the innovation & iterations instead of just having a final product dumped on us like with many of the top tier brands. They of course have pro teams to test their prototypes.

[@mikekelly1771]

So glad they're working this stuff out before it goes to market. My only turn-off with these brands has always been their 'the retail consumer is the guinea pig' approach.

[@andreapalazzi670]

Nice to see a company reacting to the feed back from the testers... let's see how the final product comes out.

[@valmorell]

Impressive that you like this groupset enough to 'fix'it and continue using it. Very promising....

[@jaredfink5146]

If I decide to buy and build a cheap bike it will certainly be modeled after one of yours, Luke. Also, all the revenue to these companies will be because of your videos. Thanks for what you do, sir. Merry Christmas 🎄🎁 from the US.

[@trackar134]

Can’t wait for the final version, the later versions of ERx appear to be working well. Will be happy to pick up both when they’re finalized

[@1874rb]

Can't wait to see the final product as it looks super promising.

[@andrewreed1329]

you are a legend, thanks for your time on these videos

[@zedddddful]

Fair play to Ltwoo for doing testing in public like this it's transparency like this that gains consumer trust we can see the issues and that ltwoo have taken remedial action it's very cool tbh.

[@THEGEEK2001]

Perfect! This is the development we want to see! Csnt wait to compare to new model!

[@LawrenceSeetoh]

Thank you Luke, i sm glad you are so involved with the process

[@tomcruz3774]

Thanks for testing! I swear I've seen your washer temporary solution before but as a way to make the derailleur stiffer to prevent chain slap.

[@merckxy54]

Keep testing Luke. Excellent video.... again. All the best to you and your family!

[@judosteffer]

Fair play Luke, you are a proper Beta Tester! BIG RESPECT to Ltwoo for encouraging this level of testing and being open about problems! (Think how different Shimanos attitude has been with their Ultegra Chainsets!). I wonder if they will make 9 or 10 speed versions? Theres are so many post mount gravel bikes out there that could do with a reasonably priced Hydraulic upgrade.

[@NDYHK2]

Elvis framset + this groupset , will be great ever

[@becyk_du_quebec]

Although it has issues, it's still good to hear that at least they completely nailted the shifting, even beating shimano/sram on one point: being able to configure it for 10/11/12 speeds and micro-adjust to your cassette (there's no reason why shimano/sram/campag e-derailleurs couldn't work with any number of gears other than not wanting to spend dev cost on it, it makes sense for a mech derailleur to be limited by a pull ratio, but an electronic one is just a servo that can be micro-adjusted to do anything withint its range really). If they can make it bombproof with the material/waterproofing it will be really good.

[@davidburgess741]

Sounds like fun beta testing this stuff! Playing with components and tweaking them is part of the hobby! A bit of thread lock over the mounting freely moving part would be a great temporary permanent fix!

[@colinboulton4796]

Happy Christmas Luke enjoy your family time thanks for the videos in 23 🎉

[@chillierdavro]

Nice update on the L-TWOO eGR I'm gonna buy one when they are out of beta testing - meanwhile paint your garage walls white for that studio effect !

[@charlesmansplaining]

Lots of ignorant people will post their comments and negativity about cheap Chinese bike parts. Truth, the Chinese aren't the only manufacturers using this powdered aluminum to make parts. Colnago, Pinarello, and many other top names are doing the same thing. I have it on good authority from some carbon bike repair shops that these aluminum failures happen a lot and are not repairable. You want light weight stuff then it's going to have a short life. No way for the manufacturer to know exactly how long except to get it out there in the real world. Realistically we are all beta testers. The great thing about L-TWOO is they want the feedback and they are trying to make things right. I think this is going to be a great product eventually.

[@asherbeal8357]

Solid. Honest. Thank you Luke.

[@lookatpalacios]

great I am looking forward and will also buy the groupset for the street for my next bike

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Since I've found your channel I've switched all the parts on two of my bikes (MTB, gravel) for "high end" Ali parts. I might never come back from it 😂

[@diegoquintana7081]

Omg, I have not seen the video yet, but I know it will be awesome. Congrats Luke!

[@123moof]

Fantastic update Luke, I am following along with great interest for a potential future build. I bought the aluminum version of their GRT 1x12, and mostly it has been just great. I really wish L-Twoo would publish some basic installation instructions, specifically torque specification, B-screw tuning, chain sizing details, and any chain compatibility issues. I was left to do a best based on similarity to Shimano and SRAM, but that should not be the case. When I looked for a manual for the GRT groupset a few months back it simply was not mentioned on their site, and at the moment it is, but clicking on “Manuals” yields an error message. While I have it running quite smoothly now, it took more fiddling and guess work than almost any of my various Shimano groupsets (the amazingly fiddly R7000 FD setup being a notable exception).

[@michaelmechex]

I love this. L-twoo groupsets looked very impressive right from the start, the only thing they lacked was was testing and ironing out little kinks like this. Thank You so much for doing this. You're doing a lot of work to bring back cycling into everyman's budget and I appreciate that a lot. To be honest, I already have GRX 1x12 lined up for my next gravel bike due to unique requirements, but I wouldn't hesitate to put L-twoo on my bike either.

[@thomasalison6188]

Great idea for the fix to the derailleur! 🥖🥖🥖

[@MrRicey155VLOG]

Great update, fancy going down the Lt-woo egr option for next bike build. Di2 is amazing but so over priced. Great vid 🫶

[@adelmur1]

Dealing with L-twoo for my bike brand and proposing L-twoo as an OEM transmission. I can also say this is a very good company. Very humble and Dedicated to listen to their customers and reviewers. Having to deal with the "others". It is absolutely not the same interaction. Shout out to like and L-twoo for the transparency.

[@pawelodz8050]

Yes! My favourite yt show just before Christmas 😍

[@mrrodriguezHLP]

Fair play by L-Twoo, they put it out on the line and it will only make them bigger and badder some day. As a Campagnolo fan, I wish they had public beta tests on the new Super Record, we might still have thumb shifters.

[@daviddjerassi]

Your Mr FIXIT forever thank you Luke a great video.

[@marksondag2085]

Merry Christmas and Happy Boxing Day to you sir!

[@jugaloo5873]

Lol, for a moment I thought you had a full neck tatoo!! 🥖 And I had a similar problem with a wolf tooth roadlink! Dream job!! And a merry christmas!!

[@maxw5229]

You are such an expert with china stuff, how about extending your content also to more established brands? Would be cool to have your insights into build quality etc. on Shimano, brand frames & so on. Also are you planno to review powermeters some day? Thanks for your efforts and videos - they are the perfect mix of entertainment and useful insights

[@AbielRuiz]

I was also talking to the LTWOO team about testing this groupset on my new 1X setup, however after seeing your first video and my experience with the eRx being pretty terrible, I opted for Ultegra Di2. After visiting their facility, I think these guys WILL pull through over time. But for now, these first iterations are not reliable at all.

[@matt_acton-varian]

Let's not forget that the production version of Di2 is at Mk4 so Shimano have a lot more R&D and manufacturing history to fall back on. The idea of using beta testers worldwide means that you can get information about how a product performs in a variety of real world conditions, that may not be present in the region of manufacture. It can help create a more resilient product that long term serves the purpose for a greater potential market equal to or better than its competitors.

[@YuPeeJay]

GCN? Pffft, Shimano should involve the best! I heard about a guy called Luke on a channel called Trace Velo! As always, a few 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 Merry Holliday and looking forward for your production in 2024!

[@danjo1967]

the joys of being a tester

[@allyp7]

keep up the beta testing! i've just ordered the sensah hrd g12 groupset for my new gravel buid on your recommendation ,cant wait!

[@bobtrass94]

merci pour ce test .bravo pour ton travail et ton intégrité

[@PaulJakma]

Have to say, watching initially on the first vid and seeing the niggles, initial thought was to be wary of the product - largely cause I was already sceptical of pure Chinese electronics products. However, seeing as it is a prototype and L-Twoo are taking your feedback on board, it's actually kind of re-assuring. If the end result of this is is that you come back with a 6+ month review of the product and it's solid, and you show how they've addressed the issues you found in the prototype(s) I'd find that quite reassuring, and it'd make me a lot more likely to try a purchase. The compatibility with 10 and 11 speed is particularly interesting (on their road version), as I have older bikes with 10 speed, and it's getting hard to source equivalent replacement Shimano parts. E.g., try find a replacement 10-speed Shimano Ultegra shifter (similar style / spec - inc. cable routing)! If the Chinese manufacturers can manage to develop reliable and reasonably priced, modern-performance-spec group-sets, it'll be a game changer.

[@n0b0dy07]

I really hope Ltwoo develop a MTB derailleur on electronic version

[@CycleNLincs]

Aluminium does work harden. I feel like the oval chain ring works the chain up and down, mix that in with off road nature. I feel like it would fail. Cool video though! I'm excited by Ltwoo, I have a 2 x 10 system and I love it. I am wanting to go to a 12 or 11 speed system but don't feel like I'll ever ready for electronic groupset

[@andreemurray7039]

Good testing your to strong for the l2 group set which is refreshing as you tell them what's wrong and they fix it

[@lukaszpietrasiak3353]

I was thinking one could use a 3rd party shadow link hanger but the b tension screw I hidden away so wieredly, nice hack and great content... Marry Xmas to all cycling nut's... and every one else 😅

[@demonstructie]

Re your closing thoughts: I don't _need_ to see all the areas that failed during the development of parts. The only thing I care about is that the parts that I buy actually work and won't fail. I'm not signing up to be part of the R&D process and I'm not rolling the dice on some half-baked prototype part where you're never quite sure in what phase of development they are. This coupled with their ever increasing prices makes these higher end Chinese parts a no go for me - I'll be sticking to my 11 speed Dura-Ace that cost me less than *half* the price of eRX thank you very much.

[@DennisKrger]

Are you daft? This is not a retail groupset. They're beta testing with those they know will stress it to the max (and are willing to test it) exactly so you don't have to.

[@demonstructie]

@@DennisKrger sometimes I envy people as gullible as you to be honest

[@dylangrantz8124]

Was your dura ace stolen? Half of 500 bucks you didn't get drua ace for 250

[@demonstructie]

@@dylangrantz8124 eRX delivered to me would cost ~€750 delivered. I paid a shade over €300 for my DA groupset, that's €80 for both brake calipers, €200 for both shifters and front and rear mech, and I want to say €25 for brand new oem shifter hoods. So sans chainset to be fair as I already had a set, but neither are they included in the eRX set.

[@jordanlee5002]

Hey mate, will you be getting your hands on the Wheeltop TX EDS hydraulic road groupset? Looking forward to a review

[@weesenglim5904]

Wheeltop EDS TX electronic road groupset is out. Would be nice if you can review them.

[@invisiblescout6335]

Its out? Where?

[@SichardRamuels]

I think people were probably influenced in their criticism by a recent-ish Peak Torque video in which he got really angry about being exploited as a free beta tester. Clearly the arrangement you have with L-Twoo is different to his experiences of the brand(s) he was annoyed with, but I can understand why people wouldn't assume there was a difference. An open and honest arrangement with cycling influencers (and their influencees) seems a sensible approach for new players in the market to take. The established brands just use pro cyclists on their sponsorship payroll for their beta testing!

[@rexlrosscabanilla104]

Please do try the EDS TX. Worth to try another chinese electronic groupset 🤙

[@ramsden35]

Amazing skills and knowledge

[@whitebeardcycles]

This may of been said, but those or known as Nord Lock Washers and they should go against each other. Back to back so the serrations act against each other hence giving a passive locking system. Used alot in my engineering environment to avoid nuts coming undone through vibration/use.

[@boowiebear]

You get free product, get to improve it and get great content out of it. Seems like a W all around.

[@keithmorlen4907]

Outstanding content as usual. 🥖

[@robivlahov]

0:50 , thats oval chainring fault right there . DO NOT USE THEM WITH CLUTCHED DERAILUR . IT CONSTANTLY CHANGES THE CHAIN LENGHT PUTTING ALOT OF FORCE ONTO THE AXLES OF THE DERAILUR, MY FRIEND CHANGED 2 WHILE IM STILL ON FIRST ONE AS I NEVER PUT A OVAL ON ...

[@oplkfdhgk]

Really cool stuff. 🙂

[@joshuabuilds3051]

You were mentioned in peak torques new podcast with Joe from China Cycling.

[@homersadiarin9299]

We appreciate your videos Luke. Hope you'd be able to get your hands on Lexon's VSRT. Seems like a brand new car on frame them and i'm looking into getting one in replacement of my X16.

[@dylanl9532]

Well I dare LTWO to bring that groupset to unbound. If it does not pass unbound, then I would never buy it.

[@DaanHoogland]

🥖 to you and to ltoo!

[@phillevin6651]

Respect

[@nizam_mr]

i assume on bikes that have option to use DirectMount hangers, that b-link(sp?) can be removed just like Shimano's shadow RD's

[@Factory051]

Nubblets. You don't realise how important they are till they're gone.

[@adcsofghtr]

We would be forever in your debt if L-Twoo eventually develops a decent electric groupset

[@andyamos8594]

Great stuff! Maybe your hack is onto something if no swinging is necessary once settup is complete?

[@raleighcosca7189]

Will you ever be doing a mountain bike build with cheap ali-express parts? Kinda sounds like the direction to go for the channel

[@samgraham4168]

I love the public beta testing. People need to remember, that Luke and others agreed to take part, and these products are NOT available to the public. We're essentially privileged to be seeing something that's normally kept behind closed doors for sometimes years.

[@RomeoManuelDavid]

Hi Luke! Appreciate the videos from Ltwoo, but do you happen to have or working on a long term review of sensah HRD?

[@johnnyboy4711]

Should get your hands on wheeltop eds TX

[@Chickenmusk]

L-Twoo never stop you from giving a true review of thier product.... you could say that they never "Sensah" you..... 😂😂😂... 🙄 I'll get my coat.... Vive la 🥖🥖🥖

[@matsvancoppenolle5796]

Hey luke, where is the review of updated l twoo version?

[@simonelovera7360]

Hey Luke! Do you think that the eGR rear derailleur will also be compatible with 13s in the future? When the official version will be out?

[@KamikazeCommie501]

If you think about it, you're part of the reason this stuff is able to be so cheap. They don't have to pay for all the research and testing and they pass the savings on to us!

[@glennoc8585]

Its cheap?

[@WH2X]

Same what happen to my LTWoo ERX It was raining hard, notice that RD is not working properly.the next day is dead won’t shift. Charge the unit it charge but after few hours its dead again. I did contact the ltwoo and this is the reply below. As i said it maybe circuit short becase of soaking in the water or rainy, or maybe mainboad has problem. You may try it again when mainboard becomes dry or purchase one new rear derailleur for verification. If i know that this unit can’t be use when raining i won’t buy this product.