Training interventions to increase VO2 max from the coach of elite athletes | Olav Aleksander Bu

Get the 5 Tactics in My Longevity Toolkit and my weekly newsletter here (free): bit.ly/3Pnh3vB
Watch the full episode: • 294 ‒ Peak athletic pe...
Become a member to receive exclusive content: bit.ly/3O0pEnY
This clip is from episode 294 - Peak athletic performance: How to measure it and how to train for it from the coach of the most elite athletes on earth with Olav Aleksander Bu. Olav is an internationally renowned sports scientist acclaimed for his coaching prowess with elite athletes spanning a diverse range of sports disciplines.
In this clip, they discuss:
- What standard Olav uses to train for increasing VO2 max?
- The difference between VO2 max and aerobic capacity
- The value of "exhaustion workouts in an exercise program"
- And more
--------
About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 70 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
Learn more: peterattiamd.com
Connect with Peter on:
Facebook: bit.ly/PeterAtt...
Twitter: bit.ly/PeterAtt...
Instagram: bit.ly/PeterAtt...
Subscribe to The Drive:
Apple Podcast: bit.ly/TheDrive...
Overcast: bit.ly/TheDrive...
Spotify: bit.ly/TheDrive...
Google Podcasts: bit.ly/TheDrive...
Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor-patient relationship is formed. The use of this information and the materials linked to this podcast is at the user's own risk. The content on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they have, and they should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. I take conflicts of interest very seriously. For all of my disclosures and the companies I invest in or advise, please visit my website where I keep an up-to-date and active list of such companies. For a full list of our registered and unregistered trademarks, trade names, and service marks, please review our Terms of Use: peterattiamd.c...

[@gondwana6303]

Olav has an extraordinary gift for saying a lot of words with very nano content.

[@halbritt]

Microbiome!

[@mlu7686]

I am a skier and thus have listened to a lot of Norwegian sports scientists so here is some background and summary of his main points: 1) Most of the time, leave something in the tank for the next set/workout/week. This is classic Norwegian method. (e.g. Jakob doing his thresh at 3.5 instead of 4mmol) This simple concept can be applied to all training types though: Adjust your intensity to maximize total work done. (This is one of the strongest arguments for Pogacar’s LT1 training.) 2) The body is complicated as hell and we are just starting to have the tools to understand a small part of its workings. But here is one interesting fact, ‘action’ with it what you will: You can achieve higher performance on a second maximal Vo2 interval despite fatigue probably because the body is warmer and produces less co2 at a given output. IMO the power of the Norwegian sports system is being humble and learning, not just assuming we know. Most scientists are like this, but even San Millan sometimes projects more certainty than I think we have. For example, in his discussions he really oversimplifies muscle fiber types and how they are activated at different power levels.

[@davidheim3310]

This guy is the only guy who understands what he is saying. I’m just trying to get a better Vo2 max.

[@simontulett6173]

I sometimes wonder if he's being deliberately obtuse because he doesn't want to give away their secrets. I've listened to him interviewed in multiple places now and haven't got anything actionable out of it yet.

[@bowint400]

Good, I'm really glad it's not just me. I'm used to listening to these scientific talks and interviews, but I can't keep up with this guy. Maybe I need to raise my Vo2 max 🤣

[@simonstucki]

I don't think he's doing that on purpose, I think the problem is it's not very simple and there's so many factors playing in to it in other words it's complex and I guess to have maximum success you need to try different things which is of course possible if your training someone over a period of time, but hard to lay out in this q&a style interview. It feels like he want's to talk about many things at the same time because he know so much. Also while I think he really knows his stuff, maybe he is a bit less talented in giving short and concise answers :)

[@RaoBlackWellizedArman]

​@@simonstucki I don't think knowing a lot has anything to do with not being able to express your thoughts or deliver your knowledge. The most knowledgeable and thoughtful academia in history were also the people who were able to put their thoughts into coherent words. The ones that use jargon to spice up what they're saying and confuse the listener are usually the ones with the least amount of knowledge. It is strategy to mislead the Layman into thinking they know a lot but they just can't deliver it.

[@matthewcozart7684]

EXACTLY! If you aren’t able to clearly express these thoughts, what business do you have being a coach?

[@thomhill7540]

Because PED is the secret… so he has to make us dream

[@texaspete7748]

Peter explains his 4x4 protocol perfectly. I wish this guy could coherently give us a better alternative if there is one. He clearly knows his stuff but can’t quite provide the info we need in layman terms

[@hippie_4762]

I think the idea of it is that 4x4 is what you want to do, but trying to get the output and exertion more consistent. Less giving it all every 4x minutes and more measurably applying progression like you would with lifting weights, where we very deliberately slowly add more reps or weight. Going to failure always vs Periodizing your RIR in cycles to a peak week.

[@xaadadaa]

How often to do 4x4 protocol?

[@bevillenz]

clear as mud.

[@LoamReaper]

That's what I just posted!

[@jeremyleake6868]

I think its worth doing a range of VO2 max protocols. Eg more reps of 2 on 2 off up to less reps of 5 on 5 off (the hardest in my view - brutal). I also like hard starts where you do 4 on 4 off but the first 30 seconds or 1 min of the ‘on’ is very hard, then settle into above FTP but not as hard as a flat 4 min on. That latter protocol pushes your heart rate up high at the start of an interval and the ‘easier’ part of the interval then maintains or increases gradually your heart rate. It is useful because it can feel easier but it has a similar effect on elevated heart rate (aiming to be above 90% max heart rate). Then there is the tabata protocol too (30 secs on 15 secs off) which is designed to give sufficient relief for you to keep going for around 10 mins. I think doing all of these protocols consistently over a block of around 1-2 months will get you close to your peak VO2 max given your mitochondrial function (which can be enhanced a lot by low/medium intensity duration). In my view, once you’ve done your VO2 block you move into VO2 maintenance phase which is one every one or two weeks. They are probably the most psychologically demanding workouts which may be as important for recovery as the physiological recovery. That can depend on the individual. But I like Olav’s view that you leave just a little bit in the tank from each to give you motivation to come back and repeat the session. Consistency (doing them again and again) is way more important than doing one or two optimally.

[@Kaindlathleticsystem]

It is just sad how many people in the comments do not appreciate the wealth of knowledge Olav Aleksander Bu is sharing in this podcast. This is one of the brightest minds in training at the moment sharing insights that are necessary to create extraordinary performance. So for all the people just want to do a VO2max workout without thinking or learning do what Peter attia says. But learn and understand what you are actually training and If it is really important for you

[@pietbiertappertje4529]

If he actually did, we would appreciate it. That and the fact the information is brought in a way most mortal man can't make sense of.

[@simonstucki]

I think this is not the right format to share his knowledge, but I'm sure he has some scientific publications which are a lot better if you really want to go into the fine details@@pietbiertappertje4529

[@gerrysecure5874]

He doesn't say much at least not much more than I could think up myself. Just listen to Seiler, much more useful.

[@chernobijl]

the double failure sessions are mindblowing

[@shirlebryant9427]

Good morning and thanks for sharing. ... from the gym this morning 🌄

[@troutjunkie7330]

Good stuff. When I do hill repeats VO2 Max training and do 6 total (1.1 mile, 640 feet climb), second and third has the strongest numbers then tapering off where the last climb I'm about 15% less watts than my second climb (legs are shot). Peter does the opposite and finishes strongest. Is one better than the other? Who knows.

[@gib_life]

If I had to pick one I would say your method because there is less left in the tank meaning you are suffering more (demanding more oxygen). However he did say consistency is key and training to complete failure is tough on the body. I think if you did a 10-15 minute break after rep 3, then tried to replicate the same power on the next 3 that would be the best. Maybe back off 1% at a time on the first 3 until you can replicate the same power on the 2nd 3. Occasionally (every third workout) squeeze out a little more juice on the very last one to help you progress.

[@kakarot2430]

I experienced this too, I did a lot 4-6 minutes Strava KOM hunting few years ago, and the 2nd try always the fastest

[@bordenflanagan8887]

Almost useless content for anyone using a modality not measuring output in watts, misleadingly labeled as providing advice for maximizing VO2 training. What was actionable here? Or intelligible to the layman? Not at all his fault-he’s a coach-but it is Attia’s, who needs to translate this before posting if he wants to reach a wide audience

[@eliteboxfitness]

True. Although Peter got a lot out of this and got pulled into the depth of the topic he's enamoured with. For the layperson more simplication would help which he usually provides.

[@rickstokes2239]

Disagree. Even for the layman and/or person that doesn’t have all of the equipment, have a power meter or know their FTP, it give useable info to us to know even without all of the gear we can still perform the same efforts they’re discussing and get good results. In my case I’m a layman but I’m having a Triathlon bike being built that will have a power meter on it and I have a good sports watch that will help me do FTP and VO2 testing, so this info is useful to anyone.

[@mlu7686]

The specific watt numbers are also useless to a cyclist; pick whichever consistent measure of output over time you want. TLDR is: Don’t train to exhaustion often. However when you do, you can do an all out Vo2 ramp, rest for 10 minutes, and achieve HIGHER output, due to higher body temperature and lower Co2 at a given output.

[@roustabout4fun]

If I may share~ doing about 1-mile hill repeats (3 times a week) over 2-3 mos.....doing a 10k race becomes a flow, especially if the race is level. I will review and take this in again. Effort is key 4 me. 6:40.. self-time stamp.

[@aorange8630]

Did anyone try cleaning their phone screen because of that spotty wall?

[@mrdee2454]

His not great at explaining his concepts. Tough to understand his points

[@jobradovich_0133]

common with non-native speakers

[@MatheMattical]

Agreed. Too many tangents and non-related examples

[@gallinedilana]

When he said the word microbiome it was too much 😂

[@GhostOfRT300]

Attia should have pulled him up multiple times but instead allowed him to ramble on.

[@nikolaikuchumov8916]

His job is to know how to train, not how to explain it to you. Sorry

[@CarlosRojas-gm1qy]

I’m going with Iñigo San Millan.

[@darlenes520]

I am new here, find myself wondering what happens to these elite athletes when the get older? How does this training impact their 70 or 80 year old bodies? Of course, they make different choices between peak and 70s?

[@eliteboxfitness]

From the studies they seen to maintain a much higher vo2 max than thier peers and some on par with an average young healthy not elite adult even when elderly. Assuming not punishing the body and simply still enjoying - play

[@glyndonwakeman7420]

@darlenes520 there are some published studies on former Olympic gold medallists in their 70/80s. They broke them into 3 groups. Those who stopped, those who continued at a recreational level, and the hard trainers (they love it). Big differences. Andy Galpin was involved and has talked about it when he was on The Drive- in particular how the fitter ones were jumping puddles in their 80s, and playing before coming in to be tested

[@eliteboxfitness]

@glyndonwakeman7420 yeah watched an episode with galpin discussing that m the older individuals were jumping barriers and puddles on route to the testing centre . Unbelievable

[@avinashmuraleedhar]

I came up with:we can perform better after a vo 2 max test in 20 mins after first testing it......we will observe increased o/p..but it also has nuance to it as we must also analyse things like co2 o/p etc?(I was not locked in while listening tho)

[@LoamReaper]

Clear as mud.

[@prestigeful]

Not clear. Peter discussed his 4'x(3') intervals as an example but I didn't get what are the possible improvements? Did Olav mean we can/should gradually increase power during the workout and also add 10 min rest intervals so it can help prime/max the actual VO2 consumption? So for example we could do 3x4'x(3') + 10' Rest + 3x4'x(3') instead of 6x4'x(3') ?

[@johanzell6068]

A lot of word salad there...

[@markgrenier6787]

This guy is brilliant but he has to go over Hill and overdale over to Grandma's house to get back to the point I'm following him word for word and it's taking him a long time to nail a simple question. It looks like he likes the sound of his own voice. Buddy he asked you if he should stay at within 5% or not or what should he do

[@gondwana6303]

Peter is thinking how do I save this interview because this guy is more full of shit than I am.

[@marielbuzo]

What would be the right power for a normal person to train and the increasing rate please? I am training my 4x4 around 2W/Kg and I am trying to increase it, what would it be the right rate please??? I am 58 and at that power I reach around 150 bpm. Thanks a lot for all your work and help!!!

[@G400-y6e]

Completely depends on who you are how much you weigh etc. if doing 4x4 at 2w/kg is super hard for you and at the end you feel like you’ve just done a max out or near max out effort then that’s perfect, if your a world level cyclist then they’ll be doing more like 7w/kg for 4x4 to make themselves push to the limit

[@marielbuzo]

@@G400-y6e thank you so much!!! But it will be very helpful to know what should my target should be at 58 please!!!

[@jimking6484]

Peter, in a different podcast mentioned on the 4 minute hard you should be at 125%-130% of your FTP and the 4 minute relax part should be at light pedaling like zone 1.

[@premp7907]

The first 1:40 seconds is Peter asking a question. That's a pretty long question.

[@garylocurto1]

what's the best way to do VO2 Max training that isn't running or biking? I have a hip problem that prevents me from doing either at high intensity. I can do elliptical at a high intensity but wondering if there are better options.

[@johanwestring8207]

Eliptical is one of the best ways to max watt output. Its great for doing longer distance and your standing so its more natural body position than for example rowing and bike.

[@georgebrowne7239]

If you have access to a stair stepper machine at the gym that can work well

[@forza1860muc]

Not a single Training Intervention named in this Video. Very misleading Video title.

[@fritsgerms3565]

Sure they did. Vox2max is associated with how much sport one does. Armstrong, when unfit was around 56 and when fit around +80. So essentially they said one should stress their body as much as possible, for both longevity and sport performance.

[@behnamtarhandeh2329]

Priceless knowledge and wisdom ❤

[@pietbiertappertje4529]

This guy talks like an untied balloon slipping from your hands😅

[@LuisaTodd]

Not uncommon. Most physiologists fail to answer the questions we seek regarding intensity and intervals because there is no single answer. The Seiler’s out there are helpful in articulating and illustrating basic concepts and frameworks and that’s probably where the enthusiast or amateur cyclist or runner should stop. Questions concerning mitochondria, lactate, fat oxidation, glycolysis, and Vo2 Max are irrelevant once we start cycling or running. We don’t have this information in front of us-so why obsess.

[@ajr3350]

Excellent. Thanks.

[@RadoslavTsvetkof]

Perhaps, if this was written down it would have been better

[@chromashift]

dropped out at 6:38... did her ever get to a point?

[@LoamReaper]

Not really.

[@HarijsHelvigs]

So Norwegian method is just bodybuilding for heart muscle - 1 min of intensive work folowed with 3 min rest and repeated for 4 times :D

[@carolinesilva9392]

Crystal clear if you have advanced degree in exercise physiology. You can't dumb it down for the plebs. That's life , deal with it.

[@gerrysecure5874]

Many words, not much content. If you want more useful info listen to Seiler.

[@alistairhaimes3696]

10 minutes between ramp tests 😂😮😫

[@squashplaya0313]

I thought it was interesting. I like the theoretical, as opposed to the boring, cognitive whiplashing protocols all the time

[@bogse]

Free coaching? Wait when you get 10 000$ bill from Olav, lol..

[@andy4408]

Well yhat made no sense whatsoever. 🤦

[@Gref75]

There's literally no useful information for regular, non-theoretic person, to put into practice in their training.

[@ondrej1893]

Zo we all improved ze workouts based on those zehn minutes, ja?

[@Penalist]

He is Norwegian, not German.

[@RaoBlackWellizedArman]

People who use jargon to spice up what they're saying and confuse the listener are usually the ones with the least amount of knowledge. It is strategy to mislead the Layman into thinking they know a lot but they just can't deliver it.

[@markolim8938]

Wtf? Listen how 4:37 - 4:59 doesnt make any sense. Ofc he knows the stuff but couldnt be explained any worse.

[@GhostOfRT300]

It was up to Attia to control the interview. Fail.

[@newscienceofphysicalhealth2934]

Not for health enthusiasts..only wanna be athletes