Trains Collide in Dense Fog: The Lewisham Train Disaster | A Short Documentary | Fascinating Horror

[@FascinatingHorror]

In this video I mention the Harrow and Wealdstone crash of 1952. I've put together a full video on that accident if you'd like to learn more: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5zWm2mAbNiBeM0

[@Jessa-RM]

Thank you!

[@shifusensei6442]

Been subscribed to you for years and have never heard you ask me to buy VPN or play war thunder... Respect.

[@Hypagon]

Would be fascinating horror to see Raid Shadow Legends or Better Help in the next video

[@Transberrylemonaid]

@@Hypagonplease not the better help lol 😂 I stopped watching some aviation KZbinr because he kept advertising for them, despite people telling him about how problematic they are. 😮‍💨

[@Hypagon]

@@Transberrylemonaid YO ME TOO 😭😭 Mentour Pilot? I commented and discussed the Better Help issue under his videos, but my comments and others were deleted by him. I started watching Green Dot Aviation instead, he's much better hahaha.

[@markosmywords9202]

@@TransberrylemonaidIf I remember correctly, FH actually did take a Better Help sponsor once, like 3-4 years ago. When people informed him of the issue, he straight up _deleted the video_ and reuploaded it with the sponsor removed. Super impressive move, since doing this likely forfeited all the money he would’ve earned from the deal.

[@hallowella]

​​@@markosmywords9202Integrity is more important than money to some, however integrity doesn't pay the bills. That is why we see such advertisements for shoddy services and products. Definitely is a bold and respactable move to get rid of a sponsor that does more harm than good.

[@PaKalsha]

You always upload quality content. No sensationalism, no speculation, no drawn-out runtime - just the facts in a measured, calm tone of voice, and you always try to end on a positive note (the laws passed or changed, or the technology introduced to prevent this happening again). You're one of the best channels on KZbin.

[@Le_Comte_de_Monte_Felin]

Agreed wholeheartedly. I have learned so much about events that were never really reported here.

[@Oracle13]

Well said!

[@bobfallon2676]

And without hyped up clickbait titles.

[@alisonwilson9749]

@@Le_Comte_de_Monte_Felin I find that when I do know more about it due to previous reading, he's usually spot-on, too.

[@hellomark1]

That poor bastard in charge of the steam train. "So we're going to make you drive a beast of a machine, with almost NO window, DEFINITELY on the wrong side of the warning signals, and you need to stick to this schedule, fog or no fog. But if you crash it, that's YOUR FAULT." wtf.

[@timecircuits88]

I'm glad he was acquitted.

[@KebabMusicLtd]

And yet the 34066 'Spitfire' operated for 19 years (1947-1966) without any other mishap.

[@hellomark1]

@@KebabMusicLtd What, do you work for the railway or something?

[@nickmf22]

Okay and? What's your point?​@@KebabMusicLtd

[@AnnQlder]

@@KebabMusicLtdwhen your home falls down due to bad practices I’ll remind you that it stood for years without incident before that

[@BigPJB]

My Dad should have been on this train going back to camp. Fortunately because of the fog in Wolverhampton the trolley buses running behind dad missed his usual train this one and caught the later one. This date was also his wedding day. My mom thought she’d been married and widowed in the same day.

[@smontone]

Wow what a story to tell the grandkids

[@cindys.9688]

Oh my goodness! So VERY thankful it turned out the way it did.💚

[@cindys.9688]

​@@smontone ~ I agree. Definitely a story to pass on forever.❤

[@Martial-Mat]

🤗

[@mistral-unizion-music]

Wow that would have been one of the shortest mariage ever! 😂 Glad he was safe!😊

[@robinsea]

My grandmother was almost on the Hayes train. As she told it, the only reason she wasn't is because she couldn't squeeze into the carriage. She would've been in theast carriage, and she would have died, and my mum, sister, and I wouldn't be here today. We still live in the area, and I regularly get the Hayes train.

[@cindys.9688]

Amazing! So thankful your grandmother couldn't get on the train. I'm sure that's made for a nice family story to share through the years.

[@chudleyflusher7132]

Stories like this are a dime a dozen because they’re worth just that.

[@JohnPaul-my6ct]

My grandmother, her eldest son and her youngest son's wife should all have been on the Hastings train. My aunt was heavily pregnant and got off at St Johns, My Gran missed it as she couldn't get to Watereloo station bcause of the fog, my uncle missed it as he was working late! My aunt heard the crash after watching the Ramsgate train steam through St johns. We all lived together in my Gran's house at Hither Green. We didn't know that all three of them were safe until the middle of the next morning. It was my 10th birthday!

[@alisonwilson9749]

@@JohnPaul-my6ct Hither Green- another place with sad railway associations IIRC....

[@JohnPaul-my6ct]

@@alisonwilson9749 the first car of the Hither Green train went down the embankment into the back garden of the house across from our house at 132, Springbank Road we spent the next 20 some hours in Lewisham Hospital giving blood, tea and sympathy to survivors and relatives. Not something to forget!

[@geoffbarry9540]

A minor quibble. My understanding is that the problem was not with the signals being on the right of the track, but with the density of the fog through the cuttings prior to the accident site, and the fact that Trew was basically suffering from conflict overload, being so consumed with worry about whether he had enough water to get his train to its first booked stop that he had no conscious recollection of looking for or seeing the adverse yellow signals through the fog. The reason that his fireman saw the red was because the train was on a right hand curve and it was normal procedure for him to look out for it, being stationed on the right hand side of the cab. Trew could not actually see that signal in good time under any circumstances, which was precisely one of the weaknesses of visual signal recognition which led to automatic warning systems.

[@gunnoreekie]

The fireman should have been on the lookout for signals, except for the times he was busy

[@davidjones332]

According to the enquiry the fireman was reading the signals as far as the St Johns outer home. From that point the driver should have been able to see the signals, so the fireman turned to firing for the climb up the North Downs, not realising that the fog was so dense that the driver couldn't in fact see them. The only explanation the driver could offer for not asking the signalman to keep looking out was that he had never experienced a signal check at that point, so the problem seems to have been partly psychological. As you say, the driver knew he was going to have to make an unscheduled water stop and he was anxious not to have any further delay. Just too much going on for him to cope with.

[@philippal8666]

Signals that the people driving can’t see. Yellow blends into fog, red at least stands out. I live round here & trains are still all held at stations/before stations/before major points. If you know you are passing a point like that you know to look out (it’s also sensible to keep trains back a bit in case of a broken down train and having to evacuate 10s of 1,000s. Besides, steam engine v little electric car. No chance. If you aren’t from here, you need to look up some of these mammoth junctions on the south side of London. I have no idea how they did it without computers.

[@naomisgram1]

@@davidjones332a terrible tragedy the result of multiple problems 😢, a lot of men aren’t good at multitasking as well. It must have been awful to live with that the rest of his life

[@cindys.9688]

​@@philippal8666 ~ I agree with you wholeheartedly. Seeing the pictures of all of those train tracks going here and there is mind boggling. I'm thankful that these tragedies didn't happen more. Unfortunately, it happened one too many times with this tragedy. I appreciate you sharing information from being a resident of the area. Blessings to you! From Cindy in California U.S.A.

[@louisjagger2177]

The extremely makeshift-looking replacement bridge is still there to this day. A living reminder of what happened nearly 70 years ago

[@cindys.9688]

Oh my goodness. I'm sure many residents know the history of the bridge and the terrible accident that it was involved in. I'm glad it's held up all these years.

[@Lewis-kf2pj]

There’s nothing so permanent as a temporary fix that works, as the old saying goes :)

[@hamlet7959]

Yes it certainly is, built by the army as a "temporary" fix to support the second half of the original span which is also still in place. I doubt any of the locals pay any attention to the bridge though although I understand a memorial was placed nearby in 2007 to mark the 50th anniversary of the crash.

[@RylanceStreet]

I was rather surprised by the nature of that bridge when I moved to London in 1980 and started using Hayes - Charing Cross trains, although I didn't find out the reason for some years. Clearly designed for speed of erection to get the lines reopened as soon as possible, rather than engineering efficiency or aesthetics!

[@trainutjob]

As an avid railroad enthusiast, I always enjoy your coverage of rail disasters, but also everything else on your channel. Keep up the good work pal, thanks for giving me something to watch with my coffee every Tuesday morning. ☕️

[@spitfire_2]

@@trainutjob May I recommend “Plainly Difficult” KZbin channel? He loves doing train videos!

[@TroyDowVanZandt]

As a former American railroader, I can think of a signaling device you don't have to see to obey: the torpedo. Torpedoes are explosive charges set on the track. You run over one and you know it. They've been around forever. I'm surprised they weren't in use in an area where fog is a common issue.

[@Voucher765]

Nice to hear what railroad did you work for, I'm a fan of the CNJ, Lehigh Valley, B&O, Reading, Erie and Lackawanna roads

[@Troglodytarum]

​@Die-Angst Lamest joke since the Stamp Act of 1765.

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

@@TroyDowVanZandt In the UK, where torpedoes were invented, they are called detonators, and they were used in foggy conditions, but typically not with colour light signals, which could normally be seen through fog.

[@michaelrichter9427]

@@the-weirdist That is correct. Your comment was just idiotic and renders you easily dismissed as a nitwit.

[@argkitsune]

Ah, my daily dose of anxiety regarding being caught in a horrific incident like this! Love it as always.

[@mercoid]

I danced with glee

[@thestars386]

For some reason watching these relieves my anxiety.

[@ddthompson42]

Right to the point and no live ads. Please keep it up!

[@FascinatingHorror]

Will do!

[@borderlands6606]

The accident has attracted ghost stories. In one account a BR bridge inspector was waiting for a 2am bus, when he heard cries for help from above. The inspector phoned the police, and the patrol car officer also heard it but was unperturbed, saying people frequently heard the cries of those trapped in the Lewisham wreckage.

[@cindys.9688]

Oh dear! I imagine ghost stories were pretty common afterwards. With 90 deaths the energy of the injured and scared who died would've been strong. I'm not a believer in ghosts, per se, but the energy left behind. I'd love to hear the ghost stories that have come from it. Thank you for sharing. This is pretty interesting.

[@Marcsharp82]

I've spoken to Railway workers in the past who have also heard screams from that area, one or two claim to have even heard a crash

[@TrickiVicBB71]

Spooky

[@rtphotos4691]

​@@cindys.9688- I live in this area. I hear screams all the time, but it's from crackheads and crazy people. Lewisham is a run down area. If any ghosts were still hanging around, they've probably moved on after seeing the state of the place. 😂

[@oceanfloor258]

Thank you for the clear account of the sequence of events leading to this accident. I grew up a few miles away in Sydenham and at the time rumours and speculation fanned by local media circulated, mostly inaccurate, one example was that the train on the bridge had fallen onto the trains below, another stated that the signals were semaphore and invisible in the fog. its worth noting that London smog was legendary back then, down to 20 or 30 yards at times.

[@dawnstorm9768]

I was wondering how much was actual fog and how much was smog.

[@hellomark1]

Yeah this is justs a few years after the Great Smog, an event also covered by this channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/np7Vm6p3oLKpm6c It's one of my favourites because it is indeed both parts fascinating and horrifying. Like it almost (but not quite) makes me wish I could have experienced it, unlike something like this one.

[@gunnoreekie]

As a former locomotive driver, it was always my co-driver/ foreman to advise me on upcoming signals, I'm from the diesel age, but travelling long end first I needed them to let me know

[@mikesmith-po8nd]

I'm sure that the reason the engineer didn't specifically ask the other man to be on the lookout for the signals was that he naturally assumed that he was a professional and would do his job.

[@zetectic7968]

@@mikesmith-po8nd Such ignorance! No engineer but a driver. The fireman would have been tending to the locomotive & unless instructed would not presume to do anything other that his normal duties or face reprimand.

[@mikesmith-po8nd]

@zetectic7968 It's amazing that someone as stupid as you would call someone else ignorant. A train driver is an engineer. And then you say that the other guy doesn't need to mention a warning because it's not his job? FFS!

[@jamesm6638]

​@@zetectic7968 engineer = driver, Mr. "such ignorance"

[@sidoney101]

It was only right the driver was acquitted. The poor man. When you rely on a human as the last line of defense to disaster it becomes almost inevitable. The driver had done his job competently for decades without incident but only needed one bad day when all the other factors cam together for this to happen. It's so typical for organizations to seek a scapegoat so they can hide their own systematic failings.

[@John-ih2bx]

Very professionally done. The information, old photos and sketches were fantastic, and you stated, when appropriate, when the photo is similar to what existed in 1957. I am subscribing to your channel. Nothing was overly dramatized, the photos speak for themselves. Thank you.

[@rapidthrash1964]

I’m left scratching my head as to why it was standard to have the driver on the side opposite to the signals when operating a steam locomotive

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

Most signals were actually to the left of the line

[@cedarcam]

Signals are placed on the left side as Boababa says but in some cases they would not be visible from a distance due to a curve in the track so they are placed on the right side so they ca be seen from far away. Thats not a problem in Electric Multiple Units but with a steam locomotive needs co operation with the fireman to tell the driver. On this day with limited visibility and his job of stoking the fire, watching the water level, filing the boiler when required it is easy to miss a signal unless he was looking out constantly, no doubt he had looked out between shovelling coal but at a time when there was no signal visible untill he happened to see the red one

[@cindys.9688]

​​@@cedarcam ~ Thank you for your explanation. I appreciate it. As clearly as it was explained in the video, you added more which really helps a lot. Knowing how those trains operated is key. The way the driver and the assistant were positioned made little sense, but I think I get it now. Additionally, there was heavy fog that evening, which made visibility difficult. Regardless of their position. Thank you!

[@cedarcam]

@@cindys.9688 Thank you. I was in signalling maintenance for years, there is a lot more to positioning them than you would think. Today we run many steam charter trains, but these days all locomotives must be fitted with all the modern equipment like AWS, and not so many signals are placed on the right side of the track.

[@elvinhaak]

@@cedarcam I wonder, were the semaphores not easier to see from the deck on the driver's site (in well lit conditions)?

[@cindys.9688]

I appreciate your consistency! I've subscribed for years and get excited every Tuesday for your newest videos. Your content is superb, your research is thorough, your narrator's voice is perfect, and you're so faithful to us as your audience. You never disappoint. You're #1 in the KZbin horror field! You surpass them all! With Much Admiration Cindy in California USA

[@ninosmall6843]

Early enough to say thank you for the continuous uploads, always such brilliantly high quality content, never missed an upload seemingly since you started. Keep it up

[@cindys.9688]

Very nicely written! I agree with you 100%!

[@yeoldeseawitch]

please talk about the Michigan, North Dakota train wreck at some point. it happened on one of the very last days of ww2, when a troop train on the Great Northern Railroad was stopped due to a hot axle bearing. However, another passenger train, which was poorly scheduled behind the first, didn't see the stopped train ahead and slammed into the last car of the first train, crushing the soldiers to death, with only one survivor who jumped through the window at the last second.

[@zeropoint216]

Well now that you've told us the whole story....

[@andyjay729]

There was a similar accident involving troop trains on the causeway across the Great Salt Lake in Utah just before New Year's Eve 1944, so also when we were starting to see light at the end of the WW2 tunnel, so to speak.

[@sturmovik1274]

If you didn't know, the locomotive of the lead train has been preserved at Havre, Montana.

[@rdallas81]

​@@sturmovik1274thanks for sharing 👍

[@alisonwilson9749]

Another troop train accident was the UK's worst ever- Quintinshill.

[@fsyzfr]

I live in lewisham and haven't heard of this story, thanks for everything you do. I find your videos very interesting.

[@rtphotos4691]

I also live in Lewisham. I knew about the wreck, but not the details of it.

[@kimberlycrouch7228]

What i have learned most from these disaster stories on various channels, is that if it is extremely foggy, do NOT ride on a train or fly in a plane anywhere. Your welcome.

[@JoMarieM]

For people who remembered the horrors of WW2, this had to bring back some terrible memories. Imagine surviving being killed by Nazi bombs, and then dying in a track wreck 12 years later! Also, it's always especially tragic when a disaster like this happens close to Christmas time!

[@NewController01]

It should be noted that 34066 was repaired after the incident and withdrawn in Oct 1964. It almost survived into preservation however, another engine was chosen instead due to it being in better condition than Spitfire was. SR Battle of Britain Class No. 21C166/34066 "Spitfire" became one of the few locomotives to be scrapped at the Woodham Brothers.

[@jlaws8740]

Wrong area and year for Spitfire. She were cut up during January '67, being withdrawn in '66. She were scrapped in a entirely different place.

[@NewController01]

@@jlaws8740 and where would that be?

[@jlaws8740]

@ Cashmore’s.

[@jlaws8740]

I went looking for this information. To be perfectly fair there is a list of engines scrapped at Barry and Spitfire is not one of them.

[@alisonwilson9749]

@@jlaws8740 It's a good job the Woodhams didn't cut them all up, so many were saved from there. A friend of mine is involved with one of them, even went down to Barry to prepare it for transport.

[@LaZoucheCustomshop]

The AWS was actually invented many years before but because the then private railway giants didn't want the expense they left it for the public to pay for when BR came along, like a lot of other things that were too expensive yet could have saved lives.

[@robertwilloughby8050]

Yes, as Kristian mentioned, the Great Western had ATC, which was very similar, but the London, Tilbury and Southend also had a prototypical AWS system too.

[@klooks1013]

“Thomas had never seen such bullshit before” Mostly because of the fog

[@TreyMcDonaldAnimator]

"What the f**k just happened?" said The Fat Controller. "I... ya know?" puffed Thomas.

[@madtrucker0983]

Thomas is going too be pulling freight trains from now on.

[@rrice1705]

I have no insights to offer or anything meaningful to say beyond expressing my sorrow for the victims. But I wanted to drop a comment anyway to help your channel, FH. You deserve at least that much for telling these stories in a respectful way. Thank you for your work!

[@davidcolwill860]

Henry Chadwick (the man who rescued the passengers), suffered severe mental trauma because of the crash. He took the railway to court. They said he was to blame for getting involved. Fortunately justice prevailed but sadly he had died before the verdict.

[@QT5656]

I've been waiting for this one. I used to live in Lewisham and I took the train everyday.

[@zetectic7968]

BR was so short of funds due to lack of government money plus it had to pay compensation to the big 4 shareholders due to nationalisation. Any one not old enough to remember how bad the the fogs & smogs were of the 50's, 60's & even into the early 70's despite the 1956 Clean Air Act can't appreciate how very low the visibility can be sometimes as little as 10 metres/30 feet or less. Look at a photo of the original Routemaster buses that had an additional headlamps set low down on the nearside to illuminate the kerb due bad weather.

[@jacekatalakis8316]

I have fog and snow outside my window, hopefully thre's no trains going past it.

[@LittleKitty22]

🤣🤣🤣Snow here too, and a lot of it. I'm in Staffordshire. No fog though.

[@nicktallfox5266]

Had to stop what I was doing, turn on captions and rewind back from 6:00. It made me pause and ask _"His fireman was seedy what now?"_ 😂

[@GothicGeek92]

Fun fact, there are still some areas in the north that still have semaphore signals, and we still have issues with fog and foliage. Drivers have to acknowledge AWS alerts, but knowing that you're accepting a safe signal is difficult when it doesn't have lights through the fog or trees. There can be lots of brake applications because the driver didn't see the signal and acknowledge the alert in time.

[@alisonwilson9749]

Not many are still semaphore- IIRC the Settle-Carlise is mixed colour light/semaphore, which must be complex for drivers.

[@MadMax76er]

Regularly travelled past the half remaining repaired bridge when travelling from home to London on that line

[@MonopodMan]

You should cover the Great Heck rail crash from 2001, the worst train crash of the 21st Century in the UK so far in terms of fatalities

[@Mark.Andrew.Pardoe]

Whato all, Please note "Spitfire" was not a steam train but a steam locomotive pulling a train of passenger coaches (not cars). Apart from that, this is a good and informative video. Cheers

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

You and The Raven's Eye are two of my all-time favorite KZbin channels.

[@gk4204]

Another great history short story. I always look forward to Tuesday morning because of this channel. Thank you for the great video.

[@shadowmoon4798]

@FascinatingHorror First off I love your videos! I alwayse get super excited when I see your videos. No worries if you have stuff planned already, but I though I would offer the Idea of doing a video on the story of the Granite Mountain Hotshots. While there is a movie out there and plenty of memorial videos, I have not seen any short documentary (granited I first discovered they existed less then 10 minutes ago). Keep up the great work!

[@reachandler3655]

Considering the number of passengers and the level of destruction, I'm surprised the number of fatalities wasn't higher. The driver's account was probably confused from shock... although it's also possible he had a head injury?

[@dawnstorm9768]

Thinking the same thing.

[@philtkaswahl2124]

The off-sequencing of the trains was already delicate enough a balance. The fog just all but guaranteed that things would go wrong.

[@ronjohnson6916]

Feels like a fundamental design flaw -- signals that the driver could not be expected to see at the best of times. And heavy fog isn't the best of times.

[@sturmovik1274]

According to other commenters, left-hand signals were standard on British Railways at the time. This and some other locations had their signals on the right because, with a long right-hand curve combined with the length of a steam locomotive's boiler, signals on the left would not have been visible to the driver at all until he was far too close to them. On the right, they were at least visible to the fireman from a greater distance.

[@ronjohnson6916]

@@sturmovik1274 Well that makes sense. Still a fundamental design flaw but also the best workaround for the situation. Hearing about this one leaves me surprised that the issue wasn't a whole lot more common (and yeah, I know similar things had happened before)

[@ComboMuster]

Stunning how many people traveled by train those days, 1500 passengers on a single train? now we have 1500 cars doing the same job.

[@sturmovik1274]

Still not uncommon to see several hundred to one thousand on subways/commuter trains in large cities. 1500 is a bit much, though.

[@essiebessie661]

Fascinating Horror now has the most pleasant and upbeat content available on KZbin in the United States right now.

[@cindys.9688]

You're right. Love his content, research, factual information, and his calming voice. Thank you for sharing! From Cindy in California.

[@garbodude4365]

Trevor in southwestern New York, I watch these videos over dinner mornings after work

[@auronius7332]

"Trains were delayed, cancelled, or rescheduled." Business as usual then for London rail!

[@griffyt209]

Please do the Seattle glue pot fire!!! I love your videos :)

[@leandervr]

As bad as it was, imagine if the third train hadn't managed to stop just in time before the collapsed bridge!

[@itsjohndell]

Another avoidable tragedy . Thanks for the video!

[@dennis2376]

I do not think so, but I do not have enough information to say anything. For example, was the government slow in providing money, was there the work force available, and so on.

[@elliejane72]

You would have thought that the emergency breaking system would have been installed in heavily trafficked stations first. I can’t imagine why other places were done before a place like London.

[@sturmovik1274]

The main lines WERE heavily trafficked stations, and often had trains running at higher speeds.

[@markgr1nyer]

Its Train Protection Warning System (TPWS) that would have prevented this incident, which was introduced after Ladbroke Grove. AWS is more about making the driver alert, so would have helped. AWS is the "wake up driver there's something you need to pay attention too" system and if the driver doesn't acknowledge it in 2.6 seconds the brakes apply. The problem is train drivers cancel AWS so often it can become an automated response so the alarm gets cancelled without the driver being conscious as to why they have cancelled the alarm. TPWS is a system that monitors speed using timing loops, and if the train passes over a loop too fast the brakes go in. And at red signals that speed is 0, so any movement past a red signal will automatically apply the brakes

[@starlinguk]

Have you considered actually watching the video?

[@markgr1nyer]

@starlinguk I've watched the whole video so what's your point? AWS would have LIKELY prevented it but it's TPWS that would have intervened regardless of the drivers actions if passing a red signal.

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

Well, AWS was in vogue at the time, while TPWS didn't exist, although earlier systems that would have stopped the train did, but still not necessarily early enough to prevent a collision.

[@lofthouse23]

AWS didn't stop the Southall accident, did it?

[@markgr1nyer]

@lofthouse23 it was isolated on the HST due to a technical fault. Hence now if a safety system is isolated you need 2 people in the cab or a speed limit of 50mph is imposed

[@ripvanwinkle2002]

anther added to my "list of things im thankful i wasnt a part of"

[@sparrowhawk_4]

I grew up in Lewisham, and had never heard about this!

[@cindys.9688]

That happens sometimes! Have you gone around now asking family, friends, neighbors, and workmates about it? I would!😁

[@skyjim777]

Just like any government. We know it’s a problem but we won’t do anything about it until someone dies. God bless all involved. Very tragic.

[@simmadpaul2880]

1:10 Scammel Scarab

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

Funky looking thing

[@lulabell1323]

the Casey Jones railroad crash in mississippi might be a another rail disaster to cover if you havent already

[@seandelap8587]

Always look forward to a Tuesday morning video by FH

[@dametrot]

Thank you for making this , I’ve been following the channel since 2020 and was wondered if you would cover this although I’m aware there’s not that many photographs of it, I moved near St John’s 22 years ago and I still remember seeing the plaque in the Lewisham station for the first time, which was quite chilling to see that many people have been killed, and over the years I looked into it and heard the stories I still go through these stations every day… I still prefer to get off at St John’s one because it’s nearer and too because I still find it slightly uneasy going onto Lewisham and over these lines and that Bridge Strange I know .. Many thanks anyway

[@MightyMezzo]

Colored light signals can be problematic too. The Pennsylvania Railroad used positional signals of three white lights, supposedly because continuously staring out at the dark reduced the ability to distinguish colors.

[@MsPopeye65]

Of course British Rail themselves weren't to blame.... at ALL!???....😮

[@lwalker8785]

They were required to make changes to the system according to the report's recommendations. So in a sense they were. But in another sense no one was to blame because it was an accident.

[@RiotSugarCoatedSour]

The way you say "crash" has a rather alluring, cold reverberance to it.

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

This channel is awesome. No AI shit, no RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS, no nord vpn, just good content. Love it.

[@SkippingSky]

A random request, would you do a video of The Wreck of the Old 97? You’re so thorough in your research that it would be interesting what you would find.

[@AngelikaMoritz-w2w]

Thank you for uploading. Love your always brillant Videos. Greatings from Germany.

[@167curly]

The worst British ever British train wreck was at Quintishill during WW1 when a troop train with wooden carriages lit by gas lamps resulted in many soldiers being burnt to death.

[@sarahcoleman8479]

My uncle was on the train before this train and my mother was on the one behind. We ended up living in a flat that gave us a perfect view of the replaced bridge. My mother would often talk about it, especially the fog.

[@callumhayes7502]

Great weather today too...

[@timd4524]

As a rail fan, those streamlined steam engines from the J1 Hudson's up until the diesel engines are the coolest ever built. There's just something about a train wreck, isn't there. You just have to look. Terrible ordeals though. Wooden passenger cars that would telescope into each other. Wooden passenger cars that had actual furnaces in them for heat. Yup. There was always something that was going to go wrong. The number of brake men who lost fingers is astronomical. Just a regular job hazard. I always enjoy these videos. It's informative to hear about other countries'systems, and what caused them to adapt.

[@sturmovik1274]

I believe these were steel cars... but, everything else, yeah.

[@thejudgmentalcat]

As a Yank, I can't believe they used a visual system when London is notoriously foggy...but it was the post-war past

[@andyjay729]

And the mechanical alternates were still in their infancy, right?

[@ACE53621]

What else would they have used? Signals were visual. And the driver in question would have seen the signals if the absolute insane nutters hadn't built everything so the lights were literally impossible to see from the driver's seat.

[@sturmovik1274]

@@ACE53621 According to other commenters, left-hand signals were standard on British Railways at the time. This and some other locations had their signals on the right because, with a long right-hand curve combined with the length of a steam locomotive's boiler, signals on the left would not have been visible to the driver at all until he was far too close to them. On the right, they were at least visible to the fireman from a greater distance.

[@alisonwilson9749]

@@ACE53621 On some bends and junction layouts that's inevitable. It's not as simple as you make out.

[@ACE53621]

@@alisonwilson9749 it is a fact that they created the train so it was impossible for the driver to see the signals. This is indeed as simple as it seems. I mean, the driver crashed because he couldn't see the signal, I don't even know what your point is.

[@PeterWTaylor]

If the driver normally stands to the left of the train, putting the signals to the right is not a great idea.

[@sturmovik1274]

According to other commenters, left-hand signals were standard on British Railways at the time. This and some other locations had their signals on the right because, with a long right-hand curve combined with the length of a steam locomotive's boiler, signals on the left would not have been visible to the driver at all until he was far too close to them. On the right, they were at least visible to the fireman from a greater distance.

[@PeterWTaylor]

​@@sturmovik1274 Interesting, but it may have been safer to put them on the left but further downtrack nearer the approaching train to give the driver more time to slow down.

[@sturmovik1274]

@@PeterWTaylor In a long right-hand curve, with the length of an engine's boiler, they still would not have been visible from the left no matter how far down the track they were, not until the engine was right on top of them.

[@PeterWTaylor]

@@sturmovik1274 I actually said - put them on the 'left' but further downtrack - where they would have been visible.. '

[@sturmovik1274]

@@PeterWTaylor My mistake. Problem with that is, there are signals every half mile or so, and they need to be a certain distance apart so the crew has time to notice and react to each one. You move that signal down the track, now it's too close to the next one. The next one can't be moved, because it's already as close as can be to the switches it controls. It can't be moved UP the track, to before the curve, for the same reason. Believe me, they didn't want there to be non-standard signals at all. If avoiding them were that simple... they would have done it.

[@MaxSchmidl]

A new vid just when I needed one, thanks : )

[@cindys.9688]

His videos are always something to look forward to. Do you tune in on Tuesdays, because that's when "Fascinating Horror" is normally uploaded. A new video each Tuesday.🙂

[@SallyKohorst]

Just wanted to say i enjoy your channel.

[@brigidsingleton1596]

I was just four years old, living in Ladywell. Lewisham...so (obviously / fortunately) only learned about this quite some years later... My Mum worked in a Lewisham cafe 'The Criterion' on 'Lewisham High Street' at that time, (and I stayed at home, in the cottage, with my Nan (Grandmother). I have no idea how much, if at all, my Mum might have helped during the post accident rescues. My Nan and Grandad had no telephone in the house, and our nearest red phone box was a few minutes walk away from the cottage, so if Mum did help, we wouldn't know about it til someone could journey to us to inform us of the incident... Mum died aged 98+ in 2015 so I cannot ask her, and hadn't pressed her on the details (as it wasn't the sort of thing which was discussed 'back in the day') Any trauma thus suffered went undiagnosed / untreated... Rest In Peace all who lost their lives that horrid evening.😢

[@vincent412l7]

If the fireman was tasked with watching the signals, then who would tend the fire on the steam engine?

[@sturmovik1274]

Same man. Watching signals was a secondary duty for him, given that most BR signals were on the engineer's side.

[@1.618-g9z]

Your use of the term "train driver" instead of the commonly misused term is appreciated.

[@norman7527]

'Trains, delayed, cancellel'. 67 years later.....some things never change

[@stargazer5784]

The driver of the Spitfire shouldn't have had to ask the fireman to watch the signals on his side, that's actually standard operating procedure.

[@TheRantyRider]

I was wondering if Henry Chadwick received any sort of award for his actions in what must have been a horrific scene. All I could find was the line "Henry Chadwick, a member of the public who assisted at the accident, successfully sued the British Railways Board for the "nervous shock" he experienced" on the Wikipedia page for the accident en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewisham_rail_crash In these days of 'win a gold, get a gong' , someone who hadn't trained for such a traumatic event but did it anyway should have got something and not had to sue BR - which would have meant he had really suffered.

[@judyjudy51]

I was wondering about this amazing man.

[@AlexanderKettle-rp3ox]

Will you ever be doing a video about the 1967 Hither Green rail crash?

[@eeveestar6826]

I'm waiting for the day he does a video on the 1998 Omagh Bombing

[@sturmovik1274]

I don't know if he does acts of terrorism.

[@SirKenchalot]

I don't think there were many left-hand-drive cars in Britain at that time, or ever. Where did you get that pic?

[@GarrettsGear]

AI

[@Bryce-z9v]

@@GarrettsGear Its called a double negative and has been around in photography for as long as it has existed. Way longer than AI 🙂

[@trashpanda3837]

Thanks for all your hard work! 💜

23 mins late to disaster.. great video

[@politicsinpink]

my grandpa lived in eltham and he remembers this event vividly, he said many of his schoolfriend parents where heading home on that train

[@QueenNemesis327]

Imagine being responsible for 90 deaths...😢 idk if I could live with myself

[@dennis2376]

It would be sad, but the person would have realized he was just one point in this failure and, yes he missed the signals, there were more factors in the accident. He was just a part of disaster.

[@capt.bart.roberts4975]

My aunt and uncle's local station was St. Johns. It's a very busy little station still.

[@HeaanLasai]

That's not entirely true. The AWS would signal 'warning' to the driver, even if the signal ahead was 'Approach limited' which in layman's terms means 'GO! (but be prepared that the next signal may be to slow down)'. This meant that the AWS warning signal was mostly ignored by drivers, since there was no way for the driver to differentiate between 'STOP' and 'GO!' AWS signals. The system thus became a nuisance, and a liability more than an aid. Though the crown refused to admit it, all analysts seem to agree that it was, if not a major factor, then at least a strong contributing factor in many accidents, as it gave the illusion of protection while instead only increasing frustration and workload.

[@cedarcam]

AWS is still better than nothing though, If a warning had sounded the driver would of told the fireman to watch out for the signals aspect. He would of then seen it was double yellow and known the next was single yellow and the one after that red.

[@alisonwilson9749]

@@cedarcam Problem is that it doesn't differentiate between double and single yellows....so drivers can end up cancelling it automatically if, as on some busy routes, they're on double yellows practically all the time.

[@cedarcam]

@@alisonwilson9749 Yes that has happened and caused an accident or a signal passed at danger, because a red signal always changes to a proceed aspect on approach but that day it doesn't and too late the driver realises. TPWS prevents that with the over speed trip. I know a signal that has been passed several times because it did not change to proceed as the driver expected. Now TPWS has been fitted. Even TPWS has not prevented two incidents within a short time of each other because the driver convinced himself he was staying on the fast and not turning off at the junction, even though the feather was illuminated. Both accelerated hard when the signal cleared but the TPWS grids had been passed over at the correct speed. I think there is a new set up there now or soon will be.

[@DavidFennessy-yj7du]

I thought the British Railways management were very insulting towards Driver Trew , referring him to being..’not quick witted’ and of..’low intelligence’…as far as I am aware he was a thoroughly reliable and sober senior driver, he was a broken man after this,I don’t think he lived long afterwards

[@alisonwilson9749]

And he'd been hanging around in the freezing cold for hours waiting to take his train out, with no food. Doesn't help anyone's concentration.

[@patriciamariemitchel]

As horrible as it is, we can still learn from an accident, and it's infinitely better than a story about some men who tortured a baby elephant on purpose, for greedy gain, and made her crazy. 😭 You said one of the trains could hold a thousand people? I'm thinking 89 is scary sad, but still better than a thousand. 😳

[@anisha9799]

This is my record for being here after a video was posted. Nothing super amazing but I’m secretly proud 😅

[@seerofallthatisobvious1316]

of all the comments i've read, this was one of them.

[@sameyers2670]

There was a predecessor to AWS called ATC that the Great Western Railway had invented in the early 1900s

[@philipkalin1928]

1:37 never believed i gonna see some old swiss highway vignette here 😂

[@shinoyagami2144]

"Collide in dense fog" my fear also went dense

[@pootispiker2866]

These days you don't have to worry. At least in the US you have a minimum of in-cab signals to cope high extreme fog.

[@madameblackimusprime]

Are you covering the Ibrox stadium disaster, Love Parade 2010, or Bradford City Fire?

[@stevenjlovelace]

When you showed the picture of the steam engine, I was confused as to where the windows were. I wasn't surprised that the lack of windows up front was a factor then.

[@nelliemelba4967]

This was to be my Dad's train that he was going to get to meet my mum for a date before they were married, but that night he was able to get an earlier train instead! The bridge was supposed to be a temporary structure but to this day it is still in use. Another major train crash occurred just a bit further down the line at Hither Green just 10 years later.

[@MrsTrafford]

Best part of my week. Thanks for sharing history. ❤

[@jannsmith9486]

Made my day thank you

[@lonelycoffee8374]

This reminds me of a two part episode of the show call the midwife. Some of the main characters were on their way back from a conference via train. The conductor had an absence seizure and was unable to stop the train as needed. That episode is set in the late 60s. I heard that the train crash of that episode was based on a real event, but I could never find the exact disaster

[@2beer49]

I remember back in 86-88 when I was stationed in England of seeing British Rail advertisements on your tele saying "We might not be on time but we'll get you there". I remember busting out laughing at this. Seriously! We would never advertise this in the U.S. We already know that you take your life in your own hands with Am Track.