Why Aren't There More BIG War Games? | S4E4

[@mevl4822]

I’m a employed adult, there is nothing more painful then spilling one of the 11 dollar washes from GW. The saddest part is the dude at the hobby store saying “didn’t I just sell you a wash last week?”

[@d1gitals0ul]

I think an innate struggle of miniature agnostic war games is often you find they're trying to emulate another or there it can be very hard to create a cohesion among your models. Another element is that it can be a lot to learn a new rules, determine an army and list, paint up said army, and then play. Model agnostic now throws in, 'find models to use' into the mix, which can be hard if not impossible. Let alone if you enjoy a nice overall cohesion in the style and design, to find a model you like, match it to a model type, and to find it to match the others. Of course some mini agnostic ones create mini options, or some creators do cover a full army, but to some extent at that point... any game is mini agnostic if you really care. What mini agnostic doesn't do is give pure inspiration. To some degree in any of these games people enjoy the world/appearance/aesthetic and enjoy the game enough that they give it the time.

[@finalcountdownsteve]

I know tht you guys have probably heard about it. But OnePageRules is taking the path you guys are talking about. They start off as a the rules, making STLs, then making new factions. Yes, it is "mini agnostic" but they also aren't. They keep building up new factions (Jackals in Grimdark Future, Duchies of Vinci for Age of Fantasy), they keep making the rules tighter and more competitive. Just keep them in mind.

[@dougsundseth6904]

"It starts off like a John Deere letter ...": "Dear Mr. Mange-whatever, we know you love green and would really like you to advertise for our particularly green tractors."

[@kangtheknightx]

I honestly think Parabellum is doing a great job with Conquest. It's vibrant locally, and growing everywhere from what I understand.

[@minishaw280]

I know of two guys who own some out of about 500 in my local hobby circle who use a discord server

[@aeow8859]

​@minishaw280 well, those are probably the two smartest guys in the group.

[@Aieika]

I LOVE THE STORMLIGHT ARCHIVES!!!! 26:34 So excited you are reading it! (And I wouldn't be mad about regular updates on how you like the series Scott)

[@austinmcgonigal5655]

Seconded

[@Hazebusterz]

Thirdended

[@utgar131]

Scott's idea of making units more reliable and therefor costing more is basically in Bolt Action. In the sense that you can have "veterans, regular and unexperienced" troops in the game.

[@TheGreatWolf44]

Bolt Action is a great system, love the order dice, I think it was inspiration for Star Wars Legions alternating activations/order tokens

[@Miniac]

Damn it! None of my ideas are unique! 😅

[@yonstenger]

This is actually quite common in historical games of all kinds, where a “unit” has a quality. Higher quality troops can have more combat strength and usually have greater staying power when it comes to moral or like systems.

[@edwardlasso3092]

"Battletech" has had this sort of system for decades now, where piloting skill is a number that is calculated into point costs, and modifies both attack rolls and piloting checks.

[@yesmilord2350]

For 4 years Scott reminded me of someone but I could never think of who. Yesterday it finally hit me. Macaulay Culkin

[@evilfuzzydoom]

While Jon is Jeremy Renner

[@Nosferatuklown]

I fux with your logic

[@Zaphodox]

Oh yeaaahhhhh! I always had that same feeling. Always thought maybe it was someone I knew as a kid, but I think you are onto something…

[@yobtar]

There was 50 of us at LVO that played ASOIAF think it's doing pretty well. We also have a decent crowd here locally that plays at 2 stores regularly :)

[@kellykuciemba6789]

Miniature agnostic games are the future. That and print and play, everything is available to print. Bloodfields is a game with tons of cool factions, that is available to print. Warsurge, One Page Rules, Xenos Rampant are the games I'll be using more of in the future. I like Warhammer 40k, I have 4-9th Editions. I like WHFB, I have 6th-8th Editions. I like KINGS OF WAR, I have some armies I'm working on to use for that WHFB, OATHMARK. The rules all have similarities, so not that hard to figure out. Another game I have built and am painting for is HOTT Hordes of the Things. I had a collection of GW LotR minis I have assembled into a good vs evil army. Not sure I'm going to continue with GW at all, I haven't played much of 9th edition.

[@youtousim]

Half way through I wonder why the Citadel origin story hasn't come up yet: Start selling minis for existing systems (DnD), and make a game of it (WHF). Or start as a skirmish / P&P game (Rogue Trader), and expand to whole armies (40k). In general the concept of starting small and expanding seems to be skipped for immediate large scale solutions, which seems to be destined to fail by default, if not executed by an experienced and/or extremely committed team. Edit: The above mentioned possibilities are mentioned, as expected.

[@aceyirl]

I've only just started playing historical war gaming from YT channel little wars TV. I've enjoyed it. I would say, to get to a big battle, you have to start small. no one wants to spend $500 on a bunch of plastic on a promis that wont appear for about a year. You gotta start small, and build an army over a year. then eventually you arrive at the 'big battle'. The other obvious but costly way to get more people into the genre, is to get friends involved and give them your old army. Just give it to them and eat the cost. I would have started if a wargaming friend gifted me his old X army. And I'd feel a certain allegiance to them and the game.

[@TheGreatWolf44]

Talk crap about historicals all you want, but they’re fun dagnabit! You see, back in my day, rich men would ride around in zeppelins, dropping coins on people. And one day, I seen J. D. Rockefeller flyin’ by- so I run out of the house with a big washtub, and-Anyway, about my washtub. I just used it that morning to wash my turkey which in those days was known as a ‘walking bird.’ We’d always have walking bird on Thanksgiving, with all the trimmings. Cranberries, ‘injun eyes,’ and yams stuffed with gunpowder. Then we’d all watch football, which in those days was called ‘baseball.’

[@dietrichmcgoogilygoo9606]

I think the days of large wargames outside of historicals are over for now - maybe it comes back with the Old World? The time, space, and money costs of assembling a full army of 28/32 mm models is one of the biggest barriers to large scale buy-in. Warlord has released several “Epic” scale (13.5 mm) starter sets for their historical rulesets centering around major engagements like Antietam and Waterloo. These slowly introduce you to the period (or setting in fantasy) and allow you to assemble a large army for relatively low cost. My poorly worded point is I think this smaller scale, fully enclosed approach is a great way to sell larger war games to modern fantasy/scifi wargamers. Just swap Waterloo with Tomb Kings vs Bretonnia.

[@MiniModelPaint]

With regard to the 'hand only' videos from GW - it's a double-edged sword. (TL;DR) On the one hand, you need a personality to engage with the audience; on the other, you need to protect legacy content and the corporate identity. It all boils down to what the end goal is - long-lasting content, or temporary throw-away online product. In a previous life I worked for a UK car magazine, making video reviews for their website. Initially, we would have a 'B-Roll/hands only' setup - just shots of the car, details, driving etc - narrated purely by a professional voiceover artist. The company wanted it this way so we didn't have any legacy personailty issues (also, no credits in the videos; no bylines in the magazine - all the opinions were those of the title). We could record an updated script and use the same footage several times over before the manufacturers refreshed the physcal look of the car. When KZbin started gaining traction, we fell behind in viewership to our competition, and started making presenter-led reviews like everyone else. While we started getting slightly better engagement, we found that not only were the presenters were being associated with the opinions rather than the magazine, but that as journalists, they weren't all able to actually present well on camera or narrate on voiceover - they weren't trained for it. Some of the content was pretty dull. We also lost the ability to release updates, and had to rescript and reshoot completely. GW's move to go back to hands only, I think, is a mistake. They could have something in place that allows legacy content to continue (if relevant) with old faces that have since moved on - even a re-edit with a 'no longer works here' watermark. BUT they need to engage with the viewers better than they are atm. Without meaning to be nasty, the current narration is monotone, and lacks excitement. Some sort of face-to-face personality might help that. And while I agree that the removal of the repetitive intros is a good thing, there is such a thing as Continued Professional Development training, where the public-facing members of the team could learn some new skills in scriptwriting (I wish my journos had taken a course in copy writing vs scripting. Uphill battle for my entire time there). I don't know what the answer is for GW's content. I don't have the boardroom insight as to what their goals are. I just know from experience that being wishywashy in the middle ground will only hurt their community offerings in the long run.

[@derekgehring2771]

What a great reply. This deserves more attention.

[@briandowling8412]

Oathmark is my personal favorite bigger game at the moment although I'm enjoying Sludge and am going to try Kings of War on Friday. I think KoW suffers from trying to attract ex Warhammer players but oathmark has its own dark ages Tolkien aesthetic and deserves to be played more. With a snifter of mountain dew and some twiglets.

[@angelozaccarin9130]

Good to hear from Mindwork Games, I ordered the medic after Scott's video and it took almost three months and multiple mails before they shipped it

[@drfishynooooo881]

Because Gorkamorka exists. I'm still going to watch and enjoy this whole episode but that's the answer - GORKAMORKA.

[@itstime1995]

Just Support Infinity ITS really good and the miniatures are fantastic

[@cosmoceratops]

Regarding the preamble ramble reading discussion. After reading so much heavy fantasy all my life I'm really enjoying the Horus Heresy novels. I enjoy how straightforward they are while still being epic in scope. That and all the chain axes.

[@shovahdeloro2223]

I had a spill this weekend too. Tipped my cement over, straight onto a pile of Khorne Brezerker backpacks 7 of them were completely ruined only 3 survived ............ much sadness 😭

[@normalguygames]

Pipettes work but I also keep a huge brush around to soak up spills and put it right back in the pot. If you're quick you can usually get a lot of it back in.

[@kyletaylor8702]

I just checked my MTG cards for the 40k colab, and some just have GW as the artist like The Golden Throne but I do have three at least that have the artists name. Chromatic lantern, Commissar Severina Raine and Celestine, the Living Saint all have the artists listed

[@socalastarte6727]

GW has the market on so many different fronts. Number 1- The vast majority of hobbyists agree that they make THE best models. Number 2- They have an absolutely INSANE catalogue of lore related novels, hundreds upon hundreds of books supporting their IP. Number 3- Both in fantasy and Sci-fi they have an absolute sh*t ton of playable factions. Like elves? They have good space elves, evil pirate space elves, clowny space elves, dead space elves, underwater elves, woodsy elves etc. All the factions are incredibly unique, and every nerd will find something that speaks to them. Number 4- They have so many different game types. 40 K, Horus Heresy, Kill Team, AoS, WarCry, Necromunda, Blood Bowl etc. They also have the one off board games like Blackstone Fortress and Cursed City that had expansions as well. Number 5- They have their own paint range. There are a ton of videos out there sh*tting on GW paints. EVERYONE that watches those videos have already bought a butt load of Citadel paints. I imagine nearly every mini painter in the world has at least a few GW paints. When I go to my FLGS, they are always low on stock of GW paints. The other brands that the "Pro-painters" use are fully stocked. Number 6- They further support their IP with a Painting App, a Gaming App, a subscription animation channel, a community page, a quality website, a giant catalogue of video games, and stores all over the world that exclusively sell their products (and their products only). For all the collective hate GW gets for the mistakes they make from a business perspective they are doing a lot of things right.

[@CygnusMaximusXIII]

While I think you're definitely correct about the "only hands" move by GW being a way to keep their content producers from going independent, they're also starting to release painting videos in other languages. It definitely feels less like a dubbed-over video if you don't ever see the presenter talking, so I'm sure that's part of it too (and they're hoping that people will assume that's the ONLY reason).

[@Artmesa]

I am happy to hear you guys are talking about better food choices. Okay, it may not be healthy, but Korean chicken is actually really good. Next video, I want to hear some reviews of Bi-Bim-Bap!

[@Vorpal_Wit]

Topic Discussion: These days instant (or as near as you can get) gratification rules. Thats why Skirmish is king right now - its faster to the table. That being said there are a lot of people playing large army battle games....they are just doing it in smaller scales, which I believe is the key. It looks great on the table, its fun to collect and is easier to do battles at larger scales with smaller minis. One interesting note about smaller scale grand battles, is that it is supported by a large variety of 3D modelers. Small scales are a 3d printer's paradise right now.

[@GreyShirtGuy]

I wrote a novel, and I sometimes think how it would look like as a miniature war game. It has different human factions, demonic invasions, angels, space battles, land battles, magic, mechs... the minis... I thin it would be neat looking at least.

[@augie_az_dawg]

I'm sure this has come up before, but did you ever think that GW is purposely doing some of the things they do because they KNOW their fanbase will never go away, and the rabid followers will buy anything they put out? Kinda like, "Here, hold my beer. Check this shit out!"

[@carlstanford7607]

I love the fact that they initailly said you couldn't make a game for a million dollars then set out a business plan on how to do just that.

[@11mullin]

Infinity company is working on a Big scale fantasy wargame. They launch last year a kickstarter boardgame named Warcrow in the same universe :D.

[@chrish1645]

Your points about companies not having a well painted/photographed picture of their miniatures is one of my biggest pain points. If I can't see what I'm buying, I'm not going to get it. Even Para-Bellums conquest seems to have mediocre pictures of their figures. Take a clue from GW, put in a spin of the model, light it well, and then have some close ups of model details. If I'm having to squint on a 30" monitor to see what your miniature looks like, it's a problem.

[@blindlyin2space600]

An idea I’ve had kicking around in my head for better balance in a miniature game that is produced by a company focused on consistently putting out cool new minis: Fully customizable factions, with various army wide rules you can choose from, then also choose several keywords, and many units of a few broad keywords that can be taken by many different armies but can still feel unique with certain supporting rules or others, and because you put out units that can be broadly taken each release there is more inherent balance of power creep

[@blindlyin2space600]

Also allows for less feels bads with seasonal rule changes, because your painted units are more flexible in how they can play in a competitive sense

[@blindlyin2space600]

Also relieves some pressure for faction focused lore, you make it more like a rpg character, you can provide a setting with broad conflicts that can be approached from many angles, where you select some set of rules and come up with a compelling story for your army that makes sense and feels cool to you. Can maintain common threads of story through a wide variety of rulesets, further allowing you to play what you think is cool and freeing you to go ham on customizing your minis if that’s your jam.

[@DaronSchmit]

You all would probably like Horizon Zero Dawn too. It's a short form campaign style game where you can cooperate with your friends or compete with them to kill the most monsters on your hunt. The hints are 3 or 4 encounters with buying phases between, with a boss fight at the end.

[@OldManRogers]

The painting phase discussed 'only hands' recently too

[@mrsay2u572]

A good game, needs to be a good game, the minis don't matter. Gamers don't care about the minis as much as the game. You look at things from the a painters point of view which is why you want cool mini's.

[@JasonPoley]

I just got into the Mistborn books after a bunch of GW stories. Johns not wrong, was such a change of quality. having a world that can change significantly is such a joy.

[@morgrath]

Just a note on the MTG 40k decks, only 59 (according to Scryfall's 'Illustrated by "Games Workshop"' filter) of the 309 cards in those decks have Games Workshop on the artist line. I noticed it first with the John Blanche Golden Throne. My guess is that the artist line has actually always been a 'who holds the copyright to this art' line, but that has always just lined up with the person who created the art. With 40k, I'm guessing that GW owns the rights to those 59 pieces of art, and so for legal reasons they have to be the entity credited on the art. That's just a theory, and even if it was the case, GW could've been decent and allowed for the actual artists names to be used there instead, and be content with the ©GW in the bottom right of each card.

[@jasonrhome710]

That could certainly be the case for anything that was done as work-for-hire.

[@PokeSparkz]

at 59:00 you mentioned what type of players are at the table so you know what to throw at them to make the campaign fun i like this cause my DM is doing the same cause getting the wife to play D&D has been tough but hes adding more puzzles so i hope she gets into it hence shes a puzzle person lol

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

Parabellum Just did all of this. Best game out right now. They have spent several Million. Rich Dude that missed Warhammer Fantasy.

[@garysmithson9707]

Hi guys. Love the podcast. Quick question, on the desk is a small single figure display case. Any idea where I can buy some of these from. Cheers.

[@therealoball]

If you're into fantasy that doesn't revolve around dwarves and elves and orcs, check out Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy

[@liberalhyena9760]

Indeed. Or anything by Michael Moorcock.

[@snowfightstudios541]

Check out Warmachine MK2. It was such an amazing system. It is minis, chess, and MTG combined into one great and intense game.

[@Vorpal_Wit]

Lets not forget Wrath of Kings - Huge Kickstarter, fantastic book, great lore, tight/fun rules, outstanding concepts, unique look, fantastic models....still failed miserably. Sometimes its just dumb luck and GW was first to the water-hole 35+ years ago, that's what they've got going for them.

[@MongooseDoggie]

I have way to many WoK models. Good thing they are pretty sweet.

[@Vorpal_Wit]

@@MongooseDoggie You and me both, brother.

[@TylerProvick]

Yes, Infinity is not a full wargame, but with 2-3 sculpts per profile, 80 profiles per faction, 9 factions + Mercs, that is enough unique models, all of which are painted on the boxes and on the website, that I don't think anyone else can use the excuse "but we are a big wargame, that's why we can't do what Corvus Belli does"

[@MarkoSeldo]

My "current range" Skaven models are metal ones sculpted in 1993. So... vintage + current?

[@sovietbear1917]

"Nobody's buying vintage models. that looks like they're from 1993 or 2005.."

[@audralynn5172]

This came back up in my suggested and even though it has been a week I am still screaming internally. DIMETRODON. THE NEW SERAPHON BADDIE IS A DIMETRODON.

[@casualhitman]

The minimum armies discussion is interesting. I know conquest had like 2 and quickly grew to for with them just voting on the 8th army to be released as the game goes into it's second addition. I think I read that they planned like 14 or 16 armies in the lore with room for more and the community helps decide what gets released next. Then I look at mantic games and there's like 20 something armies but all look pretty much the same. I think one problem is when games get too many factions. Malifaux has more factions than ever but a lot of these new releases apply to dual factions so find someone to split or play everything I guess?

[@zramirez5471]

I am now officially creating a massive game just to sponsor a Jon & Scott hotdog mascot race...

[@kyleritchey7413]

You should play in our big game, 25,000 points a side, at adepticon for kings of war I'm almost certain we could get you enjoying that.

[@jasonrhome710]

Or-eh-gan. Like organ, with a Canadian stereotype in the middle, or origin with an "an" at the end. But, like shedding whiskey snobbery, I'm working on being less prickly about regional dialects. When someone says Ore-gone, Or-ee-gun, or Or-ee-gone, it's not like I don't know where they are referring to. I ALSO had to wait forever for the Ghoul Queen & Pum'kin dude order to show up. All the stuff I was seeing from them about the models was a combination of supply issues from the everything and larger than expected order volume. I must have missed the one where they were saying something about the caster.

[@liberalhyena9760]

1:40:05 Scott: “You got Badlands by Mierce Miniatures”. That may be what you have, Scott, but the rest of us have to make do with Darklands.

[@Winterydee]

Hands down the worst packaging I've seen is for miniatures is by Kings of War. On the box art, the models are painted with the same color scheme which is also used for the background terrain. They blend in to the background! At a distance the boxes just looks like abstract art and up you can finally make out the models... barely. If I had the money to start a company to make a miniatures war game... I would make the rules and lore first. Then I would start by selling a skirmish level game, introducing the factions and lore/history. Being able to slowly introduce new factions and unit types along the way for the first few years. Then, introduce the large-scale war game with a slightly different version of the rules designed for that larger scale along with new models for all of the factions to fill out the play bases army/armies which they collect. The whole time trying to do promotional things for game stores to not only help them out but also in the hopes of helping the company out as well.

[@willschoonover8654]

I have too many thoughts on the main topic, so I'll limit it to this. New players who are not already hobbyists won't necessarily pass on a game because the models are "derpy" or look like they are from the early 90s. Lots of people who are outside the hobby don't have the experience to see the difference. Plus, there are people out there printing STL minis on FDM printers and thinking that is fine.

[@fenreer01]

The Divided States of America was an online alt-hist GeoPol wargame from the late 90s until the 10s. Same concept like you guys were discussing.

[@whilehobbying]

I think you've described what Parabellum is doing with Conquest. Probably same with Mantic and Kings of War..

[@Retrofun69]

SCOTT I know you like heavy metal so try CRYPTIC EXPLORERS. Youll dig the atmosphere.

[@ironknight132]

Its crazy to me that we still think of terms of companies that do all three, rules, models & lore. OPR has sown if you have a good rules set that lets people use the models they want, you don't *need* models and lore. Patreon has tons of STL creators for the game of your choice.

[@UntiltedName]

The expense and effort to do a large game like that, from the ground up would be immense. Talking about production, marketing, financial control, distribution, qa, hr, product development, warehouse management, shipping/rec, janitorial, all the boring ass office crap. Hiring employees who can do those things well and keeping that ship afloat is the majority of the battle. That's lonnnng before even going into anything "gaming". The rules and whatnot almost take a back seat but yes it is what the gamer crowd is going to focus on the most, like you guys did. Game design and running of a business are completely different topics. That's why there are so many model agnostic games. They can focus on the design and I could see some path where a model agnostic game got popular enough to be picked up by a gw competitor.

[@CristianOrtiz-go7mk]

I tend to remember that a huge chunk of the current US used to belong to Spain... Oregón having a Spanish pronunciation makes sense.

[@pega_neko]

we use miniature in Australia all the time, but pronounced more like mini-chur rather than mini-a-ture

[@nikotillmann9764]

For the first time I'm kind of sad that content is in the extended episode. I really would have liked to know Scott's opinion on scale 75's drop paint. His is an opinion on paints I really respect.

[@anthonyroessel1841]

"They are in the dumpster where they belong." GO PACK GO!

[@redsven7624]

Jon - they are picking the space wolves... I'd ask do you really want that customer? :). I think one actually valid point on this is people have different aesthetic tastes, playing into an aesthetic can actually distinguish your game - much like Moonstone. I have not been wowed by a GW model in ages, not because the models are bad pretty much everything is really solid, they seem to be playing deep into a fixed aesthetic and not taking any creative risks. Which isn't turning my head

[@radiumminis]

The only other large scale wargame that you can compare to gw, is Privateer Presses Warmachine. That started with 4 factions for most of the first edition.

[@wernerfaaij]

Maybe i would be a cool idea to start small within the same universe you want to create your large scale wargame like a board gamr of a skirmish game. And if you can use those modles in your large wargame that would be awesome!

[@TheMiniMadCat]

you talking about opportunities just after what you were both saying made me have an AHA! moment....

[@itsallfunandgames723]

I love the Citadel pots. You can spill them just trying to secure them in your hand so you can close the lid. It's amazing design engineering they managed.

[@ObsidianCrane]

Kings of War - pick the rules that suit the story you want to tell, now build your army with the models you want to use. Mantic's design philosphy for models is make them easy to paint and put a lot of models on the table together to look good in a bunch not individually. So that miniature design philosophy doesn't fit with your emphasis on the models. Conquest's major problem is being out of scale to everything else, if they had gone with 30mm to align with KoW and GW they would be doing much better than they are now. Not that they are doing badly now, if they can keep going the way they are they will be a truely big game in a few years. Games like ASOIF and Star Wars Legion live on their IP originally, getting your own IP up and running on the desired scale is much harder. As to the GW rules thing, I think Hey Woah! explained the problems with Scott's take on AoS more than well enough.

[@Barry-Sweaty]

The Bonchon in my city closed during the pandie. Fills me with sad sauce and totally killed my Korean fryfry chub 😢 (minis are kinda cool but mainly I’m here to listen in on the witty chicken banter)

[@Miniac]

"sad sauce" and "Korean fryfrychub" are DEFINITELY going into my vocab

[@rbrentw]

Do you know the day and time for the Adepticon show?

[@yonstenger]

Did y’all just foreshadow Ancient Eggypt?

[@aaronsmith6171]

I feel like someone needs to break the news to Jon about the Queen. The Antartica part of the news

[@tommcdonald7143]

Brandon Sanderson is writing lore for Moonbreaker, a video game about painted miniature alien war hero teams battling over space rocks.

[@AzaMinis]

RE - Is ASOIAF working right now? Not in my area. I don't know any stores in my area (and I'm including stores within a 30-40 mile drive) that have people who either play it or carry it. I've only seen it in one gaming/hobby store (and that's 3 hours from me), and even there nobody seems to play it in the store. It's not even played at NOVA Open. It may have regional pockets where people play it, but it's still a niche game from my experience. Well behind not only GW games, but even SW Legion, MCP, Infinity, etc. - Heck, there's even more Relic Blade and Space Station Zero players in my area than ASOIAF.

[@jacobtaylor9879]

I can only think of a few army sized games .. Bolt Action, 40k, AOS and Deadzone and Kings of war .... maybe Sludge ?

[@liberalhyena9760]

The “armies” in Bolt Action are platoon-sized: 30 - 40 figures including weapon teams, and a vehicle or two. There are other WWII rule sets for company- and battalion-sized engagements, but even that is pushing the definition of “army”.

[@TheThomas01101]

Just so you guys know the storm light archives are getting paintable figures somewhere this summer .

[@maxey1977]

You should try " wander the cult of barnicle bay". If you come by the panda cult booth at adepticon I'll give you a demo!

[@danielb8533]

Id love to ask Rakham why Confrontation failed because that was the only time in my 50 years Ive seen anything close to going toe to toe with GW

[@liberalhyena9760]

It wasn’t Confrontation that failed, it was Rackham, through bankruptcy. I understand another company is planning to bring Confrontation back but don’t know the details.

[@edwardlasso3092]

Only time? Take a look at Battletech which has been around for decades.

[@danielb8533]

@@edwardlasso3092 When I played Battletech... The minis were cardboard cut outs.

[@shagakhan9442]

​@danielb8533 they have new minis, I would recommend Battletech Alpha Strike. I like to play around 500 pv

[@asuranshadow9491]

Sure seems like commercial launches of new games even at small and skirmish level are typically 2-4 factions to start, unless it is GW.

[@samsellner4486]

Dang, I didn't expect a Racing Sausages reference from TUP! It's food related though, so maybe I should have lol

[@calvanoni5443]

For anyone to do a Wargame the money logistics on the back end must be tough. So it falls to those already bigger mostly except with miniature agnostic style.

[@billdefranza4927]

Can we get a highlight reel of nothing but Scott cackling?

[@bakauf4300]

Tip for the day, shade paints work out of dropper bottles too. 🤣

[@iancampbell5578]

Para-Bellum/Conquest is certainly knocking it out of the park as a large scale army game!

[@Pokerzero2099]

Miniac, I just got to mission 3 of Decent. That hand hold first mission is just your tutorial. It gets harder. Just FYI.

[@ziggman13]

Please try Etherfields and those minis, better then tainted Grail.

[@ziggman13]

Why is there spam in this comment section, can I Report it?

[@dawnjackson5773]

Me debating do I want to listen to this now because sweet a new one came out or .... Or wait to listen to this at work .. tonight? Mmmmm... Naaaaa I will just listen to this twice lol 😂😆

[@vaderkoshpaints]

There are plenty of big wargames. 40K, AOS and SBG of course, but also Legion, Saga, Bolt Action, Flames of War, Team Yankee, Conquest, Firefight, etc. There are even more if you are playing older themes of historicals.

[@liberalhyena9760]

Saga and Bolt Action are both skirmish games, albeit relatively large ones. Neither - particularly Saga - requires more than about 30 figures, which can hardly be called a “big wargame.”

[@vaderkoshpaints]

@Liberal Hyena I'd call 30 large actually. It's all relative of course. Stargrave is a skirmish game and requires 10 per side. I suppose that is my thinking. 5-10 figures would be a skirmish style game.

[@liberalhyena9760]

Yes, I agree that it’s relative. I’m just accustomed to thinking of armies as much larger forces, sub-divided into discrete units of different troop types, but I accept that in gaming it’s somewhat different. Most skirmish games require a dozen or less figures as you say. There is a middle ground of “warband” games such as Lion Rampant, requiring 40 - 60 or so, but for many people that would definitely be classed as big, never mind the true division - corps sized games (most of which, in historical terms, represent skirmishes).

[@vaderkoshpaints]

@Liberal Hyena Very true. I've played many WWII games like Typhoon or ACW Gettyburg and there are thousands of counters. I can't even fathom playing a miniature game like that in anything other than epic scale.

[@liberalhyena9760]

Indeed. Hard not to fantasise about it, though!

[@ionminiatures]

I often say mini-ature in order to make sure I spell it correctly. Minature is incorrect.

[@STOOJIE]

Spilled my Skelton horde just the other day. Big f@£k off make up brush near soaked the lot up in about 4 mops.

[@tamastoth82]

I would say KDM minis cannot be compared to others (but the price cannot be either). Then Oathsworn is the one with the best quality minis afterwards. Everything else is lower quality.

[@crypticpaintworks]

The exposure and benefits of being a CMON game might be outweighed by the downsides of distribution through Asmodee and/or the problems with supply the game continues to experience. I love ASOIAF, but being a CMON property is an honest to goodness obstacle in making the game accessible to new players.

[@mohastgridlock]

I only come for you folks talking about what you've painted

[@theezekarion164]

The New Abaddon got me into the Hobbie But when I seen the Old Abaddon I almost Quit the hobbie.

[@5p3cu10]

A big issue for me is the massive gap between something being announced and then it releasing. I think Kickstarter is the best example. Look at some like Rivenstone. The time between fulfilling the backing and the actual backing is massive. All hype is lost. All the chatter and excitement is lost. Creators need to have things ready long before pushing.

[@PlasticComplex]

Model websites being fucking trash is so right. So many websites from 1998, where I have to email the customer service with my order and they'll send me a paypal invoice. Of course no pictures of the models, I have to go to some whack forum, also unchanged from 1998, to see a picture of what i'm buying XD.

[@xambler2]

Trapped under plastic: the only podcast that teaches you to paint a dragon pulling a wagon full of flagons to Oregon

[@RobertGardnerEngineer]

Fuckin' love me some Bonchon. Also, their Street Tacos are BOMB!