Traps Respond To Heavy Weights!

[@justcostysad6522]

before finding your channel, I was doing clean form shurgs and rows. people were saying that I need to work on my back and traps. i started following your advices, in two months, the same people were the ones asking for advices on how to grow the back and the traps. preach

[@brickslayer8743]

I took my shrugs from 315 slow and controlled to 495 for volume and 585 for lower reps and my rack pull got to 765 for heavy triples and started training my neck and everything looks so much better now. Neck training is under rated. Direct trap training with heavy weight is under rated. Love the yoked appearance in a shirt, if you are lean, I think it looks aesthetic as fuck. Love shrugs, rack pulls, overhead presses, and neck work. So much bang for the buck. Really makes a difference in a physique. The traps also stick out a lot in side tricep poses, so that looks awesome as well. I broke my leg and while I couldn't do anything heavy, my traps shrunk and now I'm getting them back very quickly and more so than last time. Alex, you're a legend in youtube fitness and everything you say works. Thanks so much for your help over the years, I love being yoked every day.

[@andaran]

Somehow i never get tired of hearing Alex going on and on about traps and heavy rack pulls:)

[@junkyard-p1s]

100mph!😂

[@Gryptt]

Took my shrug from 135 slow and controlled to 450 cheated and my traps blew up easy gains

[@ButcherTV]

6 months ago i did cheat shrugs with 315 instead of doing strict shrugs with less weight. every single week , i hit a pr. 405, 455, 495 etc. Now, i just hit 8 plate shrugs for 2 half reps and people on the powerlifting team believe i jumped on roids because of my trap development. plus, for all the hippies saying its snap city, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME U HEARD SOMEONE TEAR THEIR TRAPS DOING CHEAT SHRUGS?

[@AlexLeonidas]

That's what's up!!!

[@thechairman74]

ButcherTV yeah, never heard of anyone tearing a trap or any upper back muscle, never heard of forearm tears, hell don't even really hear about delt tears either.

[@gregthesplintercell]

How many sets of cheat shrugs and rack pulls do you do?

[@ABABABABABABABABABABBBBBB]

Dang 755lb power shrugs. Your traps must be yuuuge! My traps are pretty big from doing 225 ultra high rep power shrugs in the past and currently deadlifting only 315. Can't wait to see how big my traps are when I can trap bar deadlift and power shrug 700lbs or more

[@Mrdtruck88]

Alex- I go way back with you and this channel. From my experience, you have given the best advice for a natural lifter on KZbin. I am going to be 49 in March and have never touched gear of any kind. I have a successful civil law firm. Being jacked is not that important to me at my age. Functionality, good strength and wellness are my priorities. I have been working out since I was 16 and did my 405 bench at 20. My workouts are not nearly as heavy now. I have done shrugs from day one. This vid changed the way I do shrugs brother. The stretch at the bottom is the key. The stretch is what activates the trap tie in on the top. I can feel it. I let the weight pull my shoulders forward and activate the tie in. It looks wrong from what the mainstream teaches. The mainstream is so wrong on this. Anyway, my personal experience from two trap workouts have caused the upper trap at the tie in to grow. At my age, my traps are returning to the size they were when I was young! What I do differently is I do not go balls to the wall with the weight. I use 275-300 and do a lot of reps. It activates the part of my traps that really have not been activated for a long time. They are responding. So even if you are older like I am and have been working out for over 30 years, your advice works. But you can tweak it a bit and go lighter with more reps. You just have to concentrate on getting that long stretch. It works. Congrats on your channel growth and success my friend. I said a long time ago when you only had a couple thousand of us subscribers. You are the best. Keep up the great work!

[@ruiz3757]

This guy is amazing. Shit I'm 55years old. Im a medical doctor. And I've been this young guys advice for about 6 months. I've been getting some great comments on my traps especially when wearing scrubs.

[@NYGiantsFtw1]

Been doing strict shrugs with 275 for 10 reps..a huge improvement from the strict shrugs I was doing with 50lb dumbells a couple of months ago. You just motivated me to up the weight to 315 my next workout and from there move on to 365, 385, 405 etc. I believe your theory because my traps grew instantly when I started doing 275 for 10 from 50lb dumbelll shrugs. The traps are a strong muscle group, your traps are basically holding all the weight at the top portion of the deadlift.

[@fittnessninja833]

Alex can you do an interview with Brian Alsruhe? dudes cool AF

[@jackcarter6629]

Brian is cool when he's not doing his endless program charts, system charts, frequency charts, charts to charts the charts.

[@RodesLaw]

Hey Alex, I was very critical of your shrugging methods but I must admit for the sake of honesty that I have seen significant trap development when I started uping my weight and not doing slow and controlled. I used to do 135-215lb slow and controlled and my traps were alright (I have good trap genetics) but I upped my weight to 3.5 plates over the last month or so and my traps got noticeably bigger. I'm planning to hit 4.5 plates in 2 more weeks and eventually get to a 500lb shrug. I've also incorporated long distance farmer walks into my program as well. You made me into a believer. Cheers and Happy new year !

[@Bob_The_Snob]

my traps gor huge when u started doing cheat shrugs

[@reeeyawn]

For the past year I've been doing slow and controlled shrugs where the main focus was squeezing at the top and slowly depressing the traps.... my traps are still small as hell... I tried above-the-knee rack pulls for the first time and pulled 635 for 4 sets of 10. DOMS ARE OUT OF THIS WORLD !!!!!

[@AlexLeonidas]

Super happy to hear that Mike! Enjoy the gains

[@jackcarter6629]

5:04 I loaded up a bar with all the available plates and did some rackpulls from above the knee and the results were insane. The whole upper back was on fire and the traps felt like steel and on the next day. I knew after a short time of doing them consistently that the stiffness wouldn't be as intense. It's not possible to do heavy rack pulls without getting fast results. I also had shoulder impingement for a few days before doing the rack pulls for the first time and the next day there was no problem, I was strict pressing fine the following day, even felt greased because of the tightness still in the muscle from the Rack pulls the day earlier. I do them now at the end of my deadlift day.

[@DuDe1040]

this is the only muscle group i would advise to go full barbarian mode.

[@shr4n]

shrugging with 250 was not helping me only when I started to power shrug, around 440 for reps, they grew fast.

[@iamchrisjr]

My traps improved so much for the past 5 months. Was doing rack pulls,cheat shrugs and neck training. Cheers Alex !!!!!

[@WesleyLWood]

Power shrugs show visual results almost immediately. I started them in july after seeng "barbell shrug by ripitoe"vid resetting after each rep. I added more than an inch in 6 months and now up to 945 x 10 and my shoulders and back have never been healthier. First month i was sore all the way down to my glues, now its just my traps.

[@AlexLeonidas]

945 X10???? God damn bro you must have MASSIVE traps.

[@tstreino]

AlphaDestiny video or didnt happened xD

[@WesleyLWood]

getting there but but i've always been a very big guy and getting thinner through lifting very heavy, shrugs turn into rack pulls when i get above 7 plates.

[@momatotsosrorudodi]

It baffles me how people can deny the effectiveness of rack pulls. Just because it’s not pulled from the floor.

[@PengPROducktions]

39e9qe9p⁵5o9po

[@CJS1986]

This is why I've been subbed for years. Alex is all truth, I never had traps until I started NE

[@solutionsforabrightfuture3579]

I do static holds at the top of the shrug with a trap bar. 15 seconds is the goal.

[@Fin_flash]

I got my traps sore as hell. I did weighted ab wheel rollouts yesterday.

[@野唔好亂食]

Before i do stupid slow and control shrugs.My traps grew for a while and stop growing. After I do Cheat shrugs .My traps get sore as fuck.My trap size and strength numbers went up.Now,fuck slow and control shrugs.

[@adaptone9777]

the first time I did barbell shrugs I did like 365 x 8 reps. Traps are strong as fuck. Thats why its so hard to release them if you have a knot.

[@stormspinner9000]

ADAPT ONE holy fuck yeah man. A few nights ago I woke up with a knot and couldnt release it at all. It sucks because the pain goes from your neck to shoulder and now I also see why neck training grows traps. Tennis ball and even hard rubber ball barely helped at all. Couldn't go to sleep until I took some medication.

[@adaptone9777]

+stormspinner9000 I used a broomstick the other day. Basically, I jammed it in the corner of the wall/ floor, and leaned into it with my bodyweight.

[@fotisrokanis4919]

To some people,grow the fuck up.Adults can disagree and still respect one another.Personally,I thought Omar's video was shit,but still he's entitled to his opinion in his own channel.As long as it's not purposely misleading or dangerous why hate on the guy Also Alex,I thought your favorite muscle group was forearms.,wasn't it?

[@AlexLeonidas]

Exactly! We must behave like mature adults and not start stupid beef for no reason. Adults have the right to disagree on certain topics. At the end of the day Omar's a great dude and provides tons of informative resources for drug-free lifters who seek strength and size. I love his channel and only wish him success. I don't want people attacking him just because we may potentially disagree on one topic.

[@strengthandbulkMadness]

I have heard of NFL football players doing 1000lb rack pulls. They don't waste time with shit that doesn't work.

[@user-zm9gc1kt8b]

ive started doing power cleans with band face pulls 2 days after resting from doing deadlifts and holy fuck were my traps sore the next day, no more useless shrugs for me mate ! thankx once again Alex you're a star

[@CEOofSleep]

I can only deadlift 220 lbs for 2-3 reps But can do 190 lbs shrugs for 6-8 reps? I stopped deadlifts because my back feels awkward

[@Garbage315]

If you'd have to bet all the savings on your bank on a study that takes 10 people doing slow and controlled vs 10 people doing pure cheat style, who do you put your money on to get bigger traps?

[@AlexLeonidas]

The one that uses my methods guaranteed.

[@TehFreedomOfSpeech]

Been doing cheat shrugs for a couples months and already at 5 plates. Traps are finally growing.

[@MisterRandom101]

Can't do cheat shrugs or rack pulls cause I'm a novice. But holy shit do farmers walks make me feel like my traps are going to fall off my body. The pain the next day is crazy. Like I'm lifting bitch weights on the farmer's walks and seeing small results. If I was overloading with like 100lbs on each side my traps would explode.

[@HomicidalDavid]

I've been doing 280 lbs for 20-25 reps that are not slow & controlled but not cheating reps and my traps are well developed. My genetics for traps are abnormally good, though. Goal is to do 375 for 20-25, but I need to buy more weight cause I don't have a gym anymore.

[@Legenda20SLO]

I guess I'll need to buy straps now.

[@tommyguglielmo1194]

Smooth Operator yes. max out without the straps, 20 1 rep sets. throw them straps on and throw on some 25s baby, blew up my grip strength insanely!

[@Carolinatrampolinewrestling]

How to do rack pulls heavy without ripping calluses of my hands, my back can pull more weight if my hands could take the beating

[@lolekbolek676]

Word. Rack pulls above the knee and power shrugs gave me huge traps.

[@SaintSoldierN9]

I dont understand, its pretty simple. For example, lets take 3 plate shrug 315lb (roughly 180kg). This gives 1766N of tension on traps. Whereas a 600lb rack pull (270kg) provides 2649N of tension on the traps. Thats way more tension and stretching provided on the muscle group, which will outweigh the gains from slowly contracting lol. Lets not forget the potential for progressive overload rack pulls give, so thats even more mechanical tension on the traps in the future. Lastly, ive seen great gains from rack pulls myself, way more mass on upper back and spinal erectors. Plus will help out your deadlift.

[@maxmaximum-sh4bx]

1:11

[@leavemyponyalone5681]

Brah, I m a fucking lifting noob. Im in the intermediate strength range only on my pull ups, incline bench. Yet im able to shrug with 360 lbs

[@AlexLeonidas]

That's good man. Back when I was benching 300 I was also shrugging 300. You're in a better place than you think

[@martin1234512345]

I never do below 315 for Traps. I never trained them much. Decent genetics in that area. But I've hit them hard for about 2 years and they're up to my ear now lol. I'm not a strong guy but people think I am and I think a lot of it has to do with my decent yoke.

[@skywalker2402]

Favorite part of the video:"retracting the scapula...shut the fuck up man!" I laughed so hard...

[@pedro6508]

Traps is your favorite muscle group? I though it was forearm because you said that you were working to have the biggest forearms on youtube

[@mikekev4914]

changing my traps training

[@iiNeedSkins]

Bill Star recommends power shrugs from the rack and alternate them with not from the rack. Been doing that with great results. I have pics of me with no traps and now with traps after getting my rack shrug too 600 lbs none rack too 500 lbs.

[@AlexLeonidas]

Good work brother!

[@momatotsosrorudodi]

When I do slow and controlled shrugs with the most weight I can handle after rack pulls and deadlifts I get a the best fucking pump. I think when you exhaust the strongest muscle fibers from the heavy lifts your traps are weak and will respond better to slow and controlled shrugs. Slow shrugs are great as a finisher.

[@ThumperBros]

Im now around 150 pounds. A few months ago I was around 140 pounds. Anyway long story short ive been training for a few years and my traps have never grown so fast as they have in the past few months due to your training methods and rack pulls and momentum lifting. Actually my strength has increased much quicker than ever before. I preach your shit to all my friends (usually falls among deaf ears though!). Keep up the good shit bro

[@AbhiSinghThakur]

What does science say about power shrug

[@skeptivorous5202]

What if you don't have access to so much weight? I use my own gym in my basement. 335 is probably the maximum I can load with plates right now. I do have a full set of bands so that could add a lot of weight, but my equipment is standard not olympic, so it would probably break if I tried doing that? Is there any other way to really get your traps to grow? I really do care about them and want to develop a yoke.

[@fatkitchen17]

is there any point of doing heavy barbell shrugs if you haven't deadlifted 405x5?

[@danielg7315]

*Yo! happy new years, man! Here's to more gainz, more subs, and more black women with big asses to you, Alex and everyone else on here! :D*

[@Donemode1451]

Daniel G Henceforth allow thy gainz to commence during anno domini two thousand and gainz

[@mikeygaming20]

Happy New year bro

[@parkergriffith6095]

Power/Hang cleans vs Snatch grip high pulls vs cheat shrugs ????

[@123noah3211]

nice camera alex. New?

[@Hohmies86]

month and a half doing rack pulls went from 225 for 5 reps to 470 for 5 reps, 1 min long farmers walks with 75lb which btw is absolute murder at the end of workout! great advice Alex, need another exercise to add for traps, been feeling like i could get alot more, currently just uppin my volume

[@karumbaiah3123]

How often can the traps be worked out for maximum benefit?

[@Baris2gs]

Alex please check Emails so we can get V3 of NE

[@mattwandrey6912]

i disagree i think somewhere in the middle is best, ive been doing relatively strict shrugs but not controlling the negative and letting it stretch at the bottom with most recently 495x31, when i tried this (which im not gonna do again because it fucked me over at work the next day lol) i got 855 my first try and held it for some time and it wasnt very hard. so while i agree with you about the effectiveness of the rack pull for trap training i think the same growth can be attained through middle ground style training. you seem to ignore the middle ground, in your mind it seems that there is only stretch squeeze contract strict training and super heavy cheating... and yes im natty before anyone asks

[@ededdeddy4805]

500lbs for 5 reps?? I can do 350 for 5. Still 150lbs off, fuck.

[@meocats]

just ordered a head harness off ebay for 10usd shipped. everyone can afford this

[@rohailab]

you should make a vid on how to power shrug

[@nonyobussiness3440]

Prone rows and rack pulls

[@mamox132]

Wheres the Q&A's man?!

[@AlexLeonidas]

I'm going to upload it tomorrow, was way too busy with customer service to get it done today.

[@zIGoDz]

Hey you should do a rank pull tutorial

[@emeleoemon-TheSpiritDetective]

Damn... I need to get to a real gym.

[@isabozdag35]

Alex i have homegym and my maximum weights are 180 kg for now. Can i use high reps for rack pulls??

[@AlexLeonidas]

Yes and use a lower pin height

[@isabozdag35]

AlphaDestiny okkey i can hit 10 reps with 180 kgs , i will add new weights to my stack soon

[@Basement811]

i cant shrug even tho my behind the back above the knee rack pull max is 405

[@mikerivers9937]

good stuff

[@Blogofanclub]

i believe you, i have incorporated this advice im slowly progressing into 3-4 plates now!

[@prestonlane4900]

The beard is almost here!

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

When i shrugged bitch weights for a 2 sec squeeze i couldn't even know when i hit failure. It never felt as if my traps worked. The close grip strict form upright rows too did nothing but irritate both wrists and rotator cuffs. So i ditched shrugs and just did "cheat upright rows" with a wider grip to my nipples instead. That didn't irritate anything, allowed me to progress quickly and killed my traps. Later i found out they're called "high pulls". Bodybuilding advice is full of shit.

[@derekgreen7319]

I don't do a whole lot of shrugs. but I'll attest to Yates rows. my back has made so much progress from Yates rows and pendlay rows it's crazy . I haven't don't pull ups in along time. not say chins don't work. just saying Yates rows are the fucking shit.

[@Ayot793]

Derek Green hey man, I just started incorporating Pendlay Rows, you seem well experienced with them got any tips? I have watched a few form vids

[@derekgreen7319]

Tomi Oni depending are your level of experience, your form doesn't have to be super strict, body English is okay. Make small increases and always work between 4 and 8 reps for 3 to 5 sets , just my opinion. Some other things would depend on your goals.

[@derekgreen7319]

Tomi Oni o and one more thing, I like the right neck technique but I prefer to look straight down. Like if I was benching but upside down.

[@derekgreen7319]

Tight neck*

[@Ayot793]

Derek Green appreciate it thanks

[@brettco20]

can anyone tell me how to get big traps?

[@itsthemightymightylongwick3951]

You are right alex. That slow and controlled movement is crap.I have never in my life done anything like that. My traps are like high mounds since I always power shrug and they are very popular with my female friends.

[@alexpss13]

It's funny because in this video my trap are biggers than yours and I haven't done heavy in almost a year all light weight with mind connection and my traps grew so much more than heavy weight shrugs with the best form I could.Light controlled burning and squeezing the traps was better for me but hey everyone's body is different but my traps don't work well with heavy weight they do better with light weight and extreme controlled form

[@tylerjones5879]

415lb rack pulls and 225lb shrugs obliterated my traps

[@anabolicanus3675]

AlphaDestiny I received the google drive link but it says I need permission. I'm confused ?

[@AlexLeonidas]

I've noticed that people who don't have gmail accounts have issues. Please let me know if it works now and email me if problems persist.

[@anabolicanus3675]

AlphaDestiny The problem has been corrected, thanks 😀😀😀😀🔥🔥

[@noahbrown5679]

Alex will u please do more exercise tutorials like the one u did with the box squat. You can do exercises from N.E. like the deadlift, ohp,push press, zercher squat,and front squat

[@value21value]

You forgot to mention that the streched-holding position is that counts on this type of muscle..I think you don't need to power shrug either just hold while streched ofc a heavy weight for time and the next day can't even move your head..Also Veritas Vincit has a descent point and remember that joints are also in a bit of risk in jerking motions.Good video though!

[@AlexLeonidas]

Yeah I always talk about the stretch, in part 2 I will address that further

[@763djfmv52]

What do you think of overloading the traps with overhead supports? There's a guy at my gym with massive traps whose overhead support pr is 800lbs!!!!(By overhead support, I mean putting a barbell in a rack set high enough that you can - with your arms locked out the whole time - do like a 1/4 squat (or less) to elevate the bar and hold it there. Yeah this isn't as much as you can overload traps with rack pulls, but you'd have to be crazy to say that's not some serious fucking weight. Who knows, with the traps in this engaged rather than stretched position and supporting so much weight, it might even work them harder than rack pulls above the knee does.And aside from the benefits for traps, it's just one of the most fun exercises I've ever done - your whole body is under extreme tension and working to keep stable.)

[@johnskywalker2523]

My fight trap is a lil bigger due to increase blood flow from masterbation and sports. I trained shrugs on my left side a few times. Should I just try to hypertrophy my left trap a lil. It's mostly a upper trap in balance. Maybe I can do more rear delt flys on my left side.

[@UGK4LIFE1212]

Alex did you watch Omar Isuf's vid about traps?

[@DRAK0GEAR]

alex do you think i will fck some shit up the way i row? vidoe is on my channel my goal is to row the way i do in that vidoe 200kg for 5+ reps

[@JasonLeeno]

How high over the knee are you talking? Or just lift heavy weight at the height that works and give it a static hold?

[@AlexLeonidas]

Two heights. Literally at the top of the knee cap and about 3-6 inches above. These ranges will both allow you to overload with heavy weight.

[@gamebread1947]

Dumb question, but should your lats be engaged during above the knee rack pulls and shrugs ? Thanks

[@isaacabramov7422]

Sam Sprecker nope

[@gamebread1947]

Isaac Abramov I don't think that is correct. During dead lifts aren't you suppose to keep your lats tight? So with that logic, rack pulls should be the same, right?

[@isaacabramov7422]

Sam Sprecker well, when you lift the weight from the rack and you use the valsalva maneuver, all the muscles are being contracted through the range of motion whether or not you become cognizant of it. (Including the lats) these were just my personal observations as I've done the rack pull for a month or two already

[@BoraOyunda1234]

Paypal is not operational in Turkey How can i buy NE

[@canbingol1257]

Bora Karaman ininal karti dene migroslardan

[@BoraOyunda1234]

ininal kartla gönderme nasıl yapılacak peki

[@canbingol1257]

Bora Karaman kredi karti gibi. mastercarda tiklayip bilgileri yazcaksin o kadar

[@OdinokiySamurai]

for traps work heavy weights and many reps

[@PunaniLicker69]

say i have a 350 max deadlift. how much should i rack pull and for how many reps and sets?

[@davidarevalo1925]

can someone give me a routine for the traps like sets and reps

[@ericstewart0921]

Laying in bed, tomorrow is Monday and I found your channel. I'm fucking PUMPED to try this shit man. Subbed.

[@AlexLeonidas]

Let me know how it goes brother!

[@stefandrpa770]

Fuck those 'science' mofos without any results. I always held to failure last reps of deadlifts and when I did even lowest rack pull, back was on fire and gained more results compared with those 'slow and controled' guys. But later adding power excercises and other overload stuff plus direct neck work, shit exploded on whole new level. True talk and true results. Carry on 💪

[@moneymaker8962]

hey alex i emailed you (chiel) when could i expect a response, excuse the impatience but i really wanna read NE 3.0 :) i included some videos of strength progress i will give you physique updates after NE only seems proper.

[@isaacabramov7422]

moneymaker dw, I emailed him and am waiting for my copy too...

[@Donemode1451]

moneymaker same

[@jMOPS1993]

moneymaker be patient guys, I'm sure he has a lot to respond too.

[@Donemode1451]

jMOPS1993 Of course, but its nice to know that others are seeing the same thing so you don't think you're the only one

[@jMOPS1993]

Per I got mine. Anybody else?

[@Seahawks1976]

another great video. quick question...every time I rack pull and do higher reps like working up to a top set of 10 I get extremely sore. are you a fan of higher reps rack pulls at times? they seem to work well for me. I'm nearing 40 and my traps get torched and my low back feels great the next day. pulling for a single usually leaves me feeling a little beat up. thoughts?

[@rossduberry]

Alex, I was just doing shrugs a minute ago. I felt a twinge of pain in my left shoulder blade and it felt as if it was coming out. Do you know why this happened?

[@PureFact]

R R you may have winged scapulas

[@rossduberry]

westcoastserbia so a lot of serratus work for me then?

[@therose7728]

Alpha,for you're NE. Can you add clickable pages? For example I want to read the neck training page and ect. You get what I mean? Because I read the book like 5times before the uptade since I was sick and couldn't to anything else.

[@jjmmxx1]

In the novice program you said we can add calf and neck exercises at the end but can we add power shrugs? Or is that not necessary?

[@bobpeoples9638]

David Rigert is a fucking beast.

[@jose2536]

bob peoples hey man i see you comment alot and it looks like you know your stuff, what do you happen to know about how nucleus overload affects strength? Alex has an old video saying his triceps blew up but he lost tons of strength, why? how does it affect athletic performance as well? what would happeen if i did it for the hamstrings for soccer, beneficial?

[@deadcakesandpanlifts2019]

Alex thoughts on the high pull for trap development?

[@AlexLeonidas]

Love it. It gives you a super powerful stretch and it's very explosive

[@YamanoRyuu]

6:33 LMAO

[@johnmay4423]

I have had great success in building my trap height from the heavy rack pulls, however, I'm not happy with my development in the mid/lower traps. do you think some variation of a row targets those areas more effectively?

[@newtonisaacma]

Real talk man. Once i started putting heavy weigths my traps exploded !

[@rolloq3741]

Can I do 2 days strength and the last day more reps on your novice program?

[@ussfrhni8085]

What about doing shrugs on volume day? Power shrugs all the way or just on intensity days?

[@AlexLeonidas]

Both work. I like 5x20 on volume days