TRASH or TREASURE? 2024 Dungeon Masters Guide Brutally Honest Review!

[@AboveTheTableNews]

So are you going to buy the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide...or is the new DMG a hard pass for you? Let us know in the comments!

[@hipnotyq]

I want the information but I CANNOT STAND the artwork. 5:41 is a perfect example. What the FUCK is that?? Super colorful friendly little critters is not my D&D. What the fuck happened to the darkness??? I think its so crazy that I want the new information but am so repulsed by the art decisions they've been making. I cannot stand the 'look' of this new version...

[@DaMuss-e2w]

@@hipnotyq its like the madness that is the Lateness Dragon Age game, they are trying to Disneyfy everything.

[@axbloodtheory7885]

Bastions being an Optional Rule in the DMG makes sense, because ultimately the DM decides on the campaign setting, and if the campaign is about constantly travelling, the players won't have time to stop and start laying bricks.

[@AboveTheTableNews]

Fair! We just thought it was odd they had an entire video about how it's totally player controlled and then slapped it into the DMG :D

[@thybald]

@@AboveTheTableNews I assume it is a page count issue. Putting the additional pages in the PHB, and possibly pushing it over the production sweet spot, might have made it a lot more expensive. So the Bastion system went into the DMG where it was easier to find space for it. I suspect all 3 books are going to have the same page count, just because that happens to be the most economical size to produce and ship.

[@brilobox2]

@@AboveTheTableNews ‘player controlled’ doesn’t mean ‘player default’

[@josephbeckett2330]

By that logic, then it isn't up to the DM, as the players might opt for a caravan Bastion that they roll up in with their constant travell, and be even more badass than those that set up a stationary HQ.

[@grr-OUCH]

I also criticized the Bastion being for players, but in the DMG. A counterargument someone pointed out is they are an optional rule, and if they were in the PHB they would be assumed to be core (and not optional).

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Solid review.

[@danielbertola7868]

There are a few improvements to layout, with some new tips and mechanics for mobs, fear, AC/HP for doors, etc. The magic item award tables are better, and of course they added bastions which seem cool. However, it took me forever to find the currency award tables, which are not in the Treasure section but are at the end of the Adventure chapter (p120-120). Make it make sense. The Settlements section is a few small paragraphs and a page of mediocre tables. What!? No world building help there. In fact, most of the book is fluff. If the '24 DMG had a section on trees, it would read: "Trees are a vital part of any adventure. They can be big if it suits your world, or they can be small. They could be short, or if it fits better into your campaign, they can be tall. Invite your players into a wooded area and describe the bark as being smooth, or perhaps rough. Maybe the leaves are thick and green, or dead and dried." End. Nothing of any real value, and it just fills the page. Maybe a table for rolling the color of the local foliage. Come on! Cram that thing full of world building tables and huge pools of ideas. Every section starts to feel this way. Just fast-food, all oil and grease and no substance. The more I read the more it feels phoned in. I don't want expansion books, modules, or 6-7 volumes across my bed so I have some real DM resources at my fingertips. I already do this and most of the books are off brand. It's supposed to be the damn DMG! All in all, it is an improvement on the '14, but other than a few bookmarks, this will still be a book for magic items. Massively disappointed.

[@Oogrilla]

As a new DM with no previous books, I'm excited to get my hands on these 2024 physical books because of how well structured and tailored they are for me to start my game with my new players. Those 2014 books were daunting when my DM friend got me to create my first character. I'm sure I'll use 5e tools in addition to the book but imo if you're playing DnD you gotta have the physical copies of at least one version, whether it's 1st or 5th etc., they're inspiring books to own. I'm very happy with my PHB 2024, I think it's beautiful and it has so many spells, I do wish there was more species lore, roleplaying info, and tables for character creation but that's an easy fix with the internet and imagination.

[@Hyodorio]

Great video! I'm honestly still excited for the book and I hope as you is that it keeps giving more tools for DMs. I disagree about the Bastions system location, I prefer them in my DM book as a system I can offer but it's not a given, as it was with other systems before

[@AboveTheTableNews]

Our issue with the Bastion system is that the D&D devs clearly described it as a system built for and controlled by the players, and specifically NOT the DM.

[@Hyodorio]

@@AboveTheTableNews I do agree with that, it's just that if it was in the PHB and DMs disallowed them it would be a bigger deal, in my opinion of course. Kinda like that awkward position of feats as optional but in the PHB that developed clashes in some games and I feel this protects that precedent. Ideally I would have a middle ground

[@AboveTheTableNews]

@@Hyodorio These are all fair points! While we think it made sense in the PHB, we can definitely see how it could occupy that awkward middle ground!

[@saviourking2548]

Helpful review. I'll likely get it myself simply to get access to updated magic items, the Bastion, and guidance on encounters using 2024 monster statblocks and other relevant changes to the ruleset. Its value as a resource of advice for DMs is secondary for me at this stage, but if it's good it's good. I don't think I agree with the Bastions being out of place in the DMG. They may be player-controlled but they're based around DM world-building and DM rewards. Much like magic items, they're in the DM domain until provided to the players. Putting it in the PHB makes it more akin to a feat or subclass ability, which I don't think does the Bastion system justice. I don't mean the players shouldn't have agency over it, but that it starts with the DM as a DM-facing system until it is handed over to the players. At least, that's how I feel based on the playtest. Has there been significant changes?

[@AboveTheTableNews]

Our main issue is that the D&D team literally told us all that the bastions were for players, controlled by players, and run by players and specifically NOT the DM, so it just feels like a bit of a money grab in our mind, but otherwise, we do think this is by far the best DMG since the 3.5 days!

[@saviourking2548]

@AboveTheTableNews would you not say the same for magic items? I suppose I just don't think its placement in the DMG invalidates what they've said, partially because I think they've been upfront from the start that it was destined for the DMG, and partially because "player control" in this case still seems like "mostly DM work." DM determines the availability, the extent, the potential, and then the player chooses if they wish to accept responsibility. The player gives direction within the scope set by the DM, and the DM follows through with that direction. As opposed to players choosing subclass features, spells, or feats, where DM involvement is non-existent, barring those DMs who closely oversee such selections. All that said, I'm sure that the organization of these books certainly included thoughts on how to maximize purchases, so I don't disagree that it could be a cash grab.

[@religionintherealms]

I am glad they reorganized the 2024 DMG. As you said, there is plenty of great sections in the 2014 DMG. Just you had to find where those things were on your own. I imagine a lot of those random tables that I really enjoy from the 2014 DMG have just been copied and dropped into the 2024 DMG. But I hope they have made a point to either give them a fresh coat of paint, add more to them, and/or add some more tables to help inspire the DM.

[@Zr0din]

@5:30 I think they implied that DM's shouldn't give out magic items BECAUSE the magic was in the sub-class of most characters. I remember looking for this and not finding it. Then there was something about MONK at 6th level (I forget) having the ability to hit creatures that don't take conventional damage (non-magical slashing, bludgeoning, piercing) with their fists, so I used that as my guide that everyone should have a +1 weapon by that time... because no one should be weaker than a 2014 Monk.

[@cbeaird52]

This is very true. The math of 2014 5th Edition was really built around campaigns with very little magic items. Does that really matter? No, not in hindsight, but it is a thing to remember.

[@josephpurdy8390]

2014 DMG pg 135 Combat encounter difficulties pg 82 The Monster Manuel gives Xp and CR for each monster. A break down of challenge ratings for loot tables is found on pgs 136-139. Magic item tables are found on pgs 144-149

[@queenmedesa]

There's a pink Beholder on the character sheets and some gay crap too

[@sudonim7367]

TLDW: Treasure. I already have the alt cover on the way lmao

[@chrisphillips1974]

Bought the Digital Version on D&D Beyond and got the Hard Copy of the Alt Cover at Game Store.

[@AlLajeunesse]

Great useful review, thanks! What about the Lore Glossary?

[@AboveTheTableNews]

It's perfectly fine! Brief, but it hits most of the big names in D&D.

[@steinfinnone1590]

You say in the video that the price is $60 but that is not correct. The price is $50. It is $60 for the the physical + the digital. $50 is still the same price they were charging 10 years ago which is cheaper than anyone else and I think is a great deal for this.

[@AboveTheTableNews]

You are correct on the price point! Thanks for pointing it out.

[@TylinaVespart]

I’m not planning to buy any of the 2024 stuff. May pick it up second hand at some point for curiousity’s sake, but with all the messing around wotc has been up to lately it doesn’t feel right supporting them. From a gameplay standpoint, I run 5e because that’s what my players want. I would be happy running 3.5 or another system, heck I designed my own and it plays well in testing. I mostly follow the rules unless they’re really awful, or non existent, and then I have to make my own consistent balanced ones. Joy.

[@captcorajus]

You didn't mention the Lore Glossary which, for new DMs/ Players coming into the game is an amazing resource to fill a layer in on 50 years of game lore. $60? Where are you buying this? D&D beyond and Amazon both have it cheaper, definitely worth the price for new and experienced DMs

[@fabiowagner4252]

I ´m not buying another Wizards product. OSR is more my game. But thanks for the video.

[@Zr0din]

My FLGS ran out of special cover versions. Have to wait 2 weeks.

[@zelbarnap]

Yes, I will be buying the dungeon Masters 2024

[@grr-OUCH]

To be fair, Greyhawk material was pretty skimpy in earlier D&D, too. Most of the lore was from the adventure modules and monster manuals.

[@simonfernandes6809]

There were two Greyhawk campaign setting box sets - one in 1983 and 1994 plus multiple sourcebooks. And the original Greyhawk Folio. And Greyhawk The Adventure Begins. And the 3.0 Greyhawk Living Gazetteer. There was quite a lot of Greyhawk material but nothing for the past 24 years.

[@grr-OUCH]

@@simonfernandes6809 Aah, that makes sense. I started played D&D around 83, and did not see anything more than a map set until there was a Greyhawk hardcover that really did not have much in it. The cover had an eagle or something on it. I say it makes sense as I would have stopped buying D&D so much by 1994, so my experience was between boxed sets. It was also limited wo what the game stores had.

[@Bondanalloy]

low bar. 2014 dmg was atrocious. that said i'm still interested to see it and may even buy one

[@funkydunkas101]

Trying to dm so I guess I’ll take it lol

[@spacerx]

Sounds like more and more the fiction that this isn't a new edition is falling apart.

[@zenhikerjoe844]

Well hello Mr. Hoffer!

[@miguelnollet3056]

You judge the 2014 DMG way too harshly. I found it to be a good book. You must remember that 5e was brand new back then, most people were already supposed to have a grasp of what D&D is, since the normies didn't start pouring in since after Critical Role. Also, it was a clean break off of 4e and let's all be grateful for that.

[@agustinmolina6660]

Most of these youtubers judge the old ways too harshly. They can't even grasp what the real problem with nowadays DnD is (and no, i'ts not the "woke") and think it's about it's rulebooks not giving enough mechanics or classes not being powerful enough. I find the dmg 2024 (as well as 2014) never addressed core concepts of DnD and focused too much on numbers and slowly building a powercreeping culture that with time had such impact on the game it completely diluted the game's identity.

[@A.I.Friends]

It is a clear downgrade. 1979 DMG is better than all other editions. They have complete versions and then some in DMG, it already has all those castle rules. The fatal flaws started in 2nd ed. and continued from there.

[@raknayteamarts2801]

5e it was the worst disappointment as possible, it was the worst DM guide after the 4e that was the best DM guide. Even that people dislike 4e, everybody agree that th DM Guide was good enough ti use its advices in any system.

[@AT-zk5ko]

Yeah Iam getting the dmg guide and still using 5e.

[@SerifSansSerif]

Magic items shouldn't be handed out till level 4, not give 4 plus 3 uncommon and 1 rare bty level 4. Bastions and optional content should be in the DMG. Putting it in players handbook makes it feel like the player gets to choose, and 5e is WAY overcorrecting in favor of players over the DM, and 2024 does this to an extent that makes nobody really want to DM. (which they probably want for Project Sigil)

[@agustinmolina6660]

This. The power creeping that has been promoted lately on DnD not only diluted the game's identity but also makes the player believe the game is about to getting big numbers and foiling the DM's evil plans.

[@tyllua]

Treasure. Bg3 made dnd big as heck. Now imagine being forced to use 10 years old rules with various errata sprawled over the web. The 2024 reprints are a treasure for all new players

[@A.I.Friends]

You really should have just played 1st edition. Avoid all this nonsense. Which is why you can play 20+ years.

[@intruder313]

I’ve been busy reverting parts of 5.1 to 5E since some changes are plain terrible. I buy them all anyway because I’ve played D&D 1-3 a week for 35 years so feel it’s a small price to pay.

[@kampanja06]

Woke slop

[@ClockMonsterLA]

The DMG has always been a reference work, not a tutorial resource. Learning how to DM from a book is like learning how to play guitar from a book of chord diagrams. Learning to play a TTRPG is, and always has been, a social activity. In other words, you learn from your peers while you play. Likewise, you learn how to DM from your DM (and that includes learning how to use the DMG to assist in your duties). If you're expecting the DMG to teach you how to DM, that's a problem of expectations, not of book content.

[@paulonius42]

Countless people have learned how to play guitar from a book of chord diagrams. The social activity needs somewhere to start, and learning from a book is a good place to start, especially in a game that has always been based in rule books.

[@agustinmolina6660]

@@paulonius42 I'm sorry but you are totally wrong. Books of chord diagrams are still a reference. a Set of rules to follow during an operochenctric activity which is playing the guitar. Same happens with DMing.

[@paulonius42]

@agustinmolina6660 No, I am not wrong because I and plenty of others have learned guitar from chord books. Spare me your condescending bullshit.

[@paulonius42]

@@agustinmolina6660 I can't find any dictionary anywhere that has the word operochenctric in it. Please define your made-up word.

[@paulonius42]

​@@agustinmolina6660I am not wrong because I and countless others have learned guitar from chord books. Yes, chord books are primarily reference books, and people can learn from reference books. Nothing I stated is wrong.

[@carldanescd]

Hard pass-

[@IronTon11]

Hard pass

[@shirak8]

Anyone who says not following the rules to the letter contributes to better play is a bad dm. Follow the rules and make it fun. You can do both. Not following the rules leads to favoritism and bad play styles.

[@breakfist4241]

Home brewing rules for creating monster was only 2 pages, and 1 of those pages was just random traits, told to just use existing monster stat blocks. Creating spells was basically just 'eye ball it' and half a page. Core subsystems like hexcrawling and chasing were missing entirely. This is going to make 3rd party and homebrewing basically impossible to balance and you depending on WotC for content to play. Very disappointing.

[@ravakano]

After Phb 2024. I decided never to buy another Wizards product. Dm guide looks useless as usual.

[@grayseeroly]

I'm not crazy about how much of this review was spent reviewing the 2014 books. I get that these being an upgrade and adressing specific issues but it feels like half the word count.

[@AboveTheTableNews]

The reason is that context is needed to understand the biggest changes, as the DMG is inherently not a book that effects/is used by most players. That's our reasoning anyway!

[@vaibhavguptawho]

Will I purchase it? No. No matter how good it is. Not going to give Hasbro any more money. Will find the relevant and useful info online.

[@AboveTheTableNews]

Honestly, for veteran DM's, there isn't a ton of value in the new book anyway, even with it being a major upgrade from the 2014 version.

[@simonfernandes6809]

So being a pirate is better than being a Hasbro executive? You fell off your moral high horse there.

[@queenmedesa]

Screw the woke crap !

[@BaseDnD]

Trash made for AI DMs

[@Sfourtytwo]

how about useless for anyone that actually is a gm

[@A.I.Friends]

People turned to KZbin to run a game? Things were far better in the 70's and 80's. We had no problem running games because the game was great then. Then a corporation trash company took over and hired a bunch of failures.