Tregara - Warhammer's Lost Insectoid Race That Even The Skaven FEARED

We're going into some VERY old lore today and discussing a Lovecraftia style race that existed in Warhammer Fantasy. A race that if it had the time would have taken over the world and ushered in a dark age possibly worse than what Chaos could have done. Let's discuss!
Tregara - Warhammer's Lost Insectoid Race That Even The Skaven FEARED
#warhammer #fantasy #lore
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[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Going into older lore today as found it really curious and tbh instead of being all mad about CA going radio silent again I might as well be productive :)

[@arch-warlock7409]

"CA going radio silent again" dude, they just got back from the holidays jesus christ

[@fumarc4501]

Fishmen next?

[@xzenderx]

You say skaven fear them like its special for the skaven to fear something :D

[@AnimePigeon]

Would love to see these in game.

[@bopo900]

@@arch-warlock7409 he isnt talking about the holidays. what about the months before the holidays?? jesus christ.

[@magma1lord]

Lets be honest. When aren't skaven afraid of something

[@shadowofhawk55]

When there’s a pile of food in front of them

[@thogrimironhammer8563]

When they are human

[@marcusaaronliaogo9158]

Warp stone

[@michaelpetrovich5353]

Exactly

[@trailblazerlazerrazerd9027]

Usually when they can't kill it, enslave it, poison it, twist it into some kind of abomination, or even manipulate them somehow like how Greyseer/Grey Seer Thanqual was with that Secret Police leader of Nuln when Gotrek and Felix were in the city for a time. Skaven are just about always after the advantage for themselves. And they barely work together at the best of times. Plus giant or at least large bugs sound like they would be the primarily their source of food to hunt, unless those same bugs could hunt them back, especially if they were intelligent.

[@kapitankapital6580]

I love the idea that the Warhammer world used to be populated by a whole different cast of races, before the Old Ones came and did their thing; races that we only have the vestiges of still surviving to this day. The fishmen, the fimir, the dragon ogres, the nagas, all these creepy and bizarre precursors that dwell on the edges of civilisation. These fit really well into that idea, either as a devolved race or just an almost extinct type of monster.

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

Also an ancient race of humanoids like Drachenfels

[@fumarc4501]

I refer to such races as Primordials. Those “sentient” races that battles for dominance over the world that was before the coming of the Old Ones. While most were titanic in size, that doesn’t mean they are were. That being said, ants to giants would be big compared to the “modern” races.

[@Redaku418]

@@fumarc4501 could be descendants of those titans

[@arcotroll8530]

@@heitorpedrodegodoi5646 I'm pretty sure that Drachenfels used to be human once upon a time before he got into all that dark magic shit.

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

@@arcotroll8530 He was part of an ancient humanoid race before the old ones he survived because of his abilities to posses other bodies

[@CommanderBohn]

Wait. So there were supposed to be Fantasy Tyranids? Damn this is wasted potential. Why aren't they a thing?

[@pogo8050]

GW hinting at but not fully developing things are one of their foremost traditions

[@KingofGeo]

They could just add Tyranids to fantasy and they would fit right in. Why can't there be a bug race in olden times, as the Tyranids are biological not technological. Heck it could even have an extra terrestrial origin, like the great Maw.

[@TheChremix]

there is no warhammer fantasy australia for now

[@RRbattlefield]

40k Skaven are also a waisted potential 😢

[@liberalsocialist9723]

@@KingofGeo I say they should keep it simple and make an Ant race with a wide range of different ants. Like the bugs in starship troopers for I fear tyranids are far to powerful for the warhammer fantasy universe.

[@fumarc4501]

I’ve always wanted an insectoid race in warhammer. Basically they’re the fantasy equivalent of 40K’s Enslavers. Like the Deep Ones or Fishmen, with lovecraftian horror elements.

[@lordpappanqui]

The only difference (or a difference) being that a race such as the Idoneth will be released in the future for Warhammer, located to the East… (I’d say East of Nippon)

[@nakenmil]

I always thought it would've have been a good idea to put them in the Southlands, like giant African termite colonies dotting the savannah and rainforest like insectoid city-states, competing with orcs, lizardmen and local humans, digging through to other parts of the world and competing with the Skaven and Dwarfs underground.

[@fumarc4501]

@@nakenmil I also like the idea of more subterranean races. To give the Dwarfs, Goblins, and Skaven a run for their money.

[@shroom8511]

@@lordpappanqui the idoneth deepkin and the lumineth realm lords are both the age of sigmar versions of the high elves, the idoneth would be mostly the people of lothern in fantasy i think?

[@DarthEnderX]

Give me Fantasy Tyranids. Position them beneath Lustria or Naggaroth, so those continents aren't so damn monocultured.

[@easterbunny3850]

In Gotrek and Felix series in Orcslayer novel hinted that Tregaras are devolved species once ruled over Old World.

[@ThaLoser]

just finished the audiobook and was gonna type the same thing :)

[@fumarc4501]

I like this idea.

[@iamnotoforiginald9206]

@@fumarc4501 Like giants and the sky titans

[@baird5682]

Subvert the expectations. Everyone expected either chaos lead by everchosen or order alliance lead by Sigmar himself, meanwhile the OG writers planted that race to have them come out on top after the total war of the end times. After all only Cockroaches would survive the Apocalypse.

[@Thulgore]

That's a bit of a myth, plenty of creatures would survive better than cockroaches.

[@baird5682]

@@Thulgore People like you is why we can't have nice things.

[@PoorManatee6197]

In WHRPG 4th edition imperial zoo a dwarf says that Karak Hirn doesnt have a skaven problem like other karaks because there are a lot of Tregara in the caves.

[@baronvonchaos8745]

Imagine if the dwarves somehow tamed the Tregara or breeded them and set them loose in the caves. Skaven genocide

[@nikoladedic6623]

@@baronvonchaos8745 Until it turns on dwarves.

[@fitzwaren]

@@baronvonchaos8745 we let out tiger to get rid of the baboons in Bombay, now we don’t have a baboons problème anymore…

[@mrsubject1]

@@nikoladedic6623 isn't that always how it goes?

[@nachoviteriletamendia3887]

Hoping that the return of Old World give us more lore about its Antiquity: Old Ones rule, the Insect empire, the asscension to demonhood of Belakor, the minor gods slayed by the Chaos gods, and the previous mortal lifes of gods like Ursus survivers of another End of Times.

[@thefatbob3710]

Hey anyone remember who the god child is? “The one whose screams level cities” or something like that?

[@leowei771]

Ah, Orcslayer, that one had some really great story moments and the insect race was also pretty cool.

[@Jinballify]

Terrifyingly uncanny. Literally hours ago I finished Orcslayer on Audible, and now this.

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

I'm clearly keeping an eye on you!

[@Jinballify]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges without a doubt a most troubling thing one can hear from a Slaaneshi worshipper...

[@MarkyMcOliver]

If i remember correctly they were essentially the Warhammer fantasy version of the Tyranids from 40k. I think they could have been an interesting addition to the sort of underground wars that typically took place between greenskins, skaven, and dwarves. I think the issue with a Tyranids like race is that they would work too similar to the Skaven in how their main focus is just numbers and flooding the battlefield with more targets than can be killed before the forces get overwhelmed. Its one of those things that I often get angry about when I think about how GW abolished the warhammer fantasy world is all the potetial it had to continue to grow with new races, new tactics, new lore. Instead it was just ended in a way that never felt like anything other than a corporate move for profits(that never came). AoS will never truly replace the fantasy world of Warhammer.

[@Mihancho73]

A 6000 cost multiplayer unit that is as big as the biggest lizard, but actually whips half of a swordsmen squad in 1 attack with its great long arms slashes. And with the tomb scorp burrowing mechanic. The ultimate meme unit.

[@EveloGrave]

I love Tyranids. Wish these were more discovered.

[@tonisauna-aho3899]

A-tier Lore. Very good stuff. So many years since I read orcslayer. Over 10 years at least so I had forgotten the details.

[@ThaLoser]

the audible book is very good. Read by a chap named Jonathan Keeble who does the best Gotrek by far

[@coaiemandushman1079]

2:27 that sounds just like the Sleeper from the Gothic game.

[@MelkorBauglir25]

I am into warhammer since the 90s but i have never heared about them or i can't remember

[@PlSkins]

My first thought when I read the book that it was sleeper from Gothic 1.😂

[@patrickgibb6504]

I’m home from work for a couple days with nurgles plague and I want to be playing total war but can’t focus enough too, your videos are really coming in clutch right now!

[@pugjesus1623]

What a shame that they probably not be in the game.... we need someone to make a mod with them!! A tyranid like faction !!!

[@nestorvetumbra]

The tregara lore that was in the Children of the Horned Rat supplement was recently expanded upon in the book The Imperial Zoo (WFRP 4th Edition). Unfortunately there is no official art yet of said creature. I don't believe that the tregara and the Sleeper are the same species, nor that the tregara are intelligent to the point of having a civilization of their own. Everything seems to indicate that it is a kind of primordial animal, perhaps it already existed before the arrival of the Old Ones. The Dwarves of the Black Mountains know of the existence of these creatures and consider them a kind of natural defense against the skaven.

[@fumarc4501]

Could be devolved forma from the same precursor species.

[@blahlbinoa]

is there a stat block for it? I'm thinking of grabbing the Imperial Zoo book later this week

[@nestorvetumbra]

@@blahlbinoa yes

[@cdg196]

Maybe the bugs were smarter before the coming of the old ones, but both the chaos gods and old ones made them more animal like over time except their emperor who was cursed to watch its race lose their intelligence.

[@iskog.831]

Maybe the sleeper is more related to the Silent People from AOS?

[@AvePonies]

lol, using a spindlebug illustration for tregara, nice one

[@dids2389]

Armoured Banderbear regiments confirmed

[@Vikyng5]

I've always wondered why there wasn't any insectoid race in Warhammer fantasy. You've got bugs in 40k. You've got bugs in Warcraft and Starcraft which are essentially derived from Warhammer and have a lot of similarities. In fact, the description from 7:30 sounds almost exactly like the Black Empire from Warcraft lore. And in each of those universes the bugs provide an interesting and unique faction. I think it's a shame that the Tregara aren't a fully fleshed out race. Anyways, good video. Keep digging for this old and obscure lore. It's really interesting and enjoyable :)

[@jasonsantos3037]

I love these primordial races been around before the old ones came.

[@Redaku418]

I’m telling you destruction has a lot of potential factions because there could be survivors of the old ones purge that have bided their time to return back to the top of the food chain

[@deus_vult9120]

Woot, this video reminded me to check if any more Gotrek and Felix had been added to audible, and yes Orcslayer and Giantslayer are! Thank you for reminding me, excellent video

[@Lexen_Rapier]

I've never heard of this. It's the first lore video you've done that had more I didn't know. I think that the old Warhammer world had aot more well, neutral stuff. These days everything that's added to the game are assigned to a faction, because anything else is a waste to the company.

[@BearPawSwipe]

This could be super interesting!

[@DarthEnderX]

Hell yes. Give me Fantasy Tyranids. Position them beneath Lustria or Naggaroth, so those continents aren't so damn monocultured.

[@spartanvi]

This is a species, specifically the sleeper, that I and a few other modders have discussed if it would be plausible to bring them to WH3. Would be a massive project and I'd love to see it done some day...

[@gjohnst4339]

At least a single entity? Empire zoo unit, or dwarfs unit? Yes please

[@spartanvi]

@@gjohnst4339 I was thinking as a faction that integrates the "torques" as a mechanic to convert enemy lords/agents, and eggs (maybe as corruption or currency) to expand its borders. This is all beyond my present abilities, unfortunately.

[@emprahsfinest7092]

I'm loving these obscure creatures and monsters from older lore you're doing videos on!

[@vudoga6082]

I do love the Warhammer Fantasy Lore. Keep it up, it's very interesting, never heard of these guys.

[@Uberchiroptera]

Great video! I always love less-explored lore topics like this! There's a reference (or strong similarity) in 40K lore to these creatures in Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader 1E. There are a range of artefacts known as 'Halo Devices' which have a similar effect to the torques that The Sleeper used to mutate/influence the orcs and dwarves in Karak Hirn. They are only found on a handful of dead worlds orbiting "corpse-stars" in the Halo stars region of the Milky Way and are believed to be older than the foundation of the old Eldar empire by Imperial estimates. People who've succumbed to the devices have also had visions of insectoid cities, pretty much word for word what Felix saw from the mind of The Sleeper. With the visions, general effects on biology, and the broad time frame associated with them, it's likely that these artefacts are remnants of the Tregara (or at least The Sleeper's) Empire and that it existed in that region of space and declined around the fall of the Old Ones. (Presumably due to all the usual reasons why empires died off at that time) An interesting come away from this theory, as the Tegara empire wasn't believed to be very spread out, is that it potentially gives a rough estimate of the location of the Warhammer world within old 40K cannon (back when they were assumed to be in the same universe, before GW shied away from the idea).

[@Astralwolf23]

These would be awesome, especially if they get some love and even fleshed out in WH3 or such as a dlc like many other long lost factions

[@jamesd5842]

I always had the impression that it was the chaos gods that betrayed the Sleeper, rather than the other way around. I think the betrayal was, like the Fimir, the gods’ adoption of humans as their favorites and uplifting them in chaos over those they had previously promised power The Sleeper makes a poor chaos worshipper, it’s psychic control creating a single extended entity (all those it had controlled were braindead after its death) who would just gain power until it could truly become a god. It’s not providing an empire of worship to the chaos pantheon, only itself, like Fantasy Tyranids

[@ShadowWolfRising]

Palpatine: You have become a Rival!

[@silverwolf3745]

Thanks for this video Nathan, if I ever knew about the Tregara I had forgotten about them.

[@JClif]

Great lore video. I have never heard of Tregara before. Good stuff.

[@thewowzer12]

Excellent use of the Sulphur Aeon album background ;)

[@Stise2]

its so nice to see someone who also appreciates the artwork of Sulphur Aeon

[@jiado6893]

I use to wonder if The Sleeper, or someone just like it, had something to do with the Spider God that all the Forest Goblins turned to worshipping.

[@Ivanus59]

I mean... The Skaven aren't exactly known for being fearless. :P

[@baldermort]

Great video. Loved it!!! More lore. :).

[@74arcath]

Great lore vid, I enjoyed it alot.

[@zodrickzheioh7318]

I love the idea of Insectoid Races, and would love to see this brought into the universe.

[@kickslinging]

Funny seeing a Spindlebug from The Edge Chronicles at 0:47 😂 Such a fantastic series of books.

[@0ff868]

yeah, it is certainly cruel to compate good old Spindlebug to some ancient insectoid monster

[@Kincoran]

I'd definitely love to see more of these guys! I'm almost surprised the writer/s haven't picked something that can be a crossover species (or at least suggestions of it being a potential crossover species) with something seen in 40K.

[@ziviokveton5721]

I’ve always wanted an insecticide hive mind in the warhammer games and this gives me new hope for that

[@CavemanBearPig]

This kinda reminds me of a quote in one of the Warhammer books from a dwarf, warning a few Empiremen about horrors far worse than skaven hiding deep beneath the earth. That said, I'm actually surprised there isn't any sort of insectoid race in WHF (not counting Nurgle's daemon flies).

[@TheAtlasReview]

This was on my "old lore I want to see again" list, alongside the Amoeba and the tentacle parasite. It's hard to know where to put it, so I said Kurgan or Khuresh would be fitting.

[@trailblazerlazerrazerd9027]

I think the Sleeper was probably a super ancient creature as was speculated. But if there were any that remain, they might be in some of the scattered islands near the southern pole where demons of chaos can't get through and how most people never travel that far south. But it's likely that warpstone might empower them much like how it does the Skaven.

[@nox3800]

Great video man

[@anjairis]

Cool stuff. Chitinous is pronounced with a k sound though :) The hivemind stuff and the mind control was somewhat related to some collars around the orcs necks if I remember right. Can't remember if the dwarfs that were stuck in the vault had those on. If not that those things made the orcs invincible at least, that I do remember.

[@samdyr]

Is that picture on the left at the 1min mark from the Beyond the Deepwoods/Edge Chronicles series? I vaguely recollect that the protagonist winds up in the fungus farms of some glass-like insects with seethrough bodies, and when they find him theyre upset that their fungus fields have this strange guy in it so they toss him out of their hive lol.

[@jjsheets330]

This is very interesting and I’ve never heard of it before. More information on 40k prehistory needs to be done.

[@Titant2]

The background image to this video is from the album Gateway to the Anti-Sphere of the band Sulphur Aeon. Awesome band.

[@Cifer77]

This was awesome

[@ac-140]

Yea Thumbnail and title had me like ok I need to watch this rn

[@riccardo393e7]

Well it is interesting.. this does add to the races list of Beastfiends, Fishmen, various tribes and sort of malal

[@farhadnikzad1514]

I already want this insectoid race in TW-WHIII.

[@silver8758biddle]

The picture at 48 seconds is from a book I remember reading as a kid. I think its from the edge chronicles.

[@truffelnootje]

Love the in deel lore vids!

[@NurgleGaming07]

I recently used a Tregara in my Skaven campaign of Fantasy 2'ed

[@Imrik]

What a coincidence, I’m currently reading Orc Slayer. I’ll have pay attention when i get to the part.

[@basinox]

Would be fun to have a few items/ancillaries referencing these guys.

[@jiveturkey5977]

I would def love to have this as a faction whether its brought in by mods or by CA. Imo it would make for a good hybrid nomad faction that uses both skaven and vampire coast mechanics where you focus on building an underground empire and raiding/looting to gain fodder for this Sleeper. The slaves captured are given to The Sleeper who turns em into cacoons for new baby Tregara like the Aliens from the Ridley Scott series. Another cool faction mechanic could be that will higher levels of faction corruption you can use that Slanesh skill that converts a unit to your army. As that corruption gets stronger in a specific region you can increase the gold cap for buying enemy units in battle. Or, I guess they could make it like Tzeentch and give you compulsion mechanics that let you encourage another faction to go to war with another one.

[@Izadirad1995]

I think a race would be hard but I could definitely see these as a mercenary unit or a monster unit for another army, maybe dwarfs or skaven or green skins. Sorta like how norsca has fimir as a minor race in their roster. Atleast in custom battles if you want to role play a Insect race you could 20 stack them and like spiders and stuff

[@KS-PNW]

Yes yes, more older lore👍👍

[@ShlaneCelticcia]

End time retconned: Forces of Order and Chaos VS the Tregara. Would be still a better endtimes then the actual one

[@sclarke6969]

Damn...its VERY rare to find something ive not come across...

[@SleepyFen]

Did The Sleeper die for sure? I hope not. A fallen bug god-emperor lying dormant under the earth, brooding and plotting for when the time is right, sounds like a perfect thing to leave the "door ajar" for. Alternatively I hope The Sleeper wasn't actually the bug emperor itself, but rather one of its subjects and merely foreshadowed its master's return.

[@CharChar2121]

Well this looks horrifyingly cool! I love anything remotely insect-like.

[@Demalion1]

Just as well the dynamic duo managed to slay it. An army of giant intelligent insects wouldn't just be terrifying. It really would be the end of all days.

[@americannomads706]

0:50 That's an Edge Chronicles illustration! Never see one of those in the wild.

[@Fuzzylemonade222]

A man of culture. I swear I’ve read that whole series 3 times over

[@aidancampbell5644]

There was a time when GW was trying to port the Tyranids into Warhammer Fantasy. This sounds very much like that attempt. I can see these Warhammer Tyranids being part of that under-map.

[@Gabriel-px8cv]

i really really like the idea of a race of creatures that have built empires deep underground or underwater

[@Hemrahban]

An insectoid deamonic creature, sleeping below ground, having orc servants and called the sleeper sounds like a reference to the game Gothic. not sure if the release date of this lore text and the game match though.

[@torquevonthorne948]

More content like this please

[@ukaszflis828]

*Tregara are cannon* *Araby. Bretonnia attacks* Arabians: Bless the Maker and His water...!!

[@xXLoneRatXx]

Yes more old forgotten lore & mysteries

[@MetaBraz]

There’s a picture in there (about 2 mins in) of a Spindlebug from the Edge Chronicles

[@blahlbinoa]

Hmmm, This might have to go into one of my Warhammer Fantasy RP sessions in the future :)

[@ac-140]

Would be very VERY cool, Tyranids of the Old world

[@parttimehero8640]

Isn't the Sleeper a homage to the Sleeper from the RPG Gothic? I think so looking at what it does and how it looks like

[@monkeypoo3000]

this would be an awesome dlc faction!

[@remyzempire]

Now that would be a very interesting race to add in the TWW world.

[@truemisto]

theres a small insectoid empire named the q'orl in 40k too

[@captainkirk4171]

I always thought the Sleeper was some kind of Enslaver. It's good to know what it really was.

[@PapaKulakhov]

Cool if there was a ruined settlement with an army of these as an Easter egg type thing. Maybe an end game crisis if they wanted to bring them back.

[@umayyadball4126]

8:56 didn't the Chaos Gods not arrive until after the Old Ones? When they arrived, the Stellar Gates collapsed and for whatever unknown reason, the Old Ones were gone. So how could the bugs make packs with Chaos while the Old Ones are around?

[@Marinealver]

"Didn't matter too much as the world did end with the end times" And that is modern story telling in a nutshell, all the great stories of yesterday doesn't matter as today's writers would rather destroy the past to make room for their "genius" instead of learning from it.

[@mcdoogle_robotman]

And 9 times out of ten their genius turns out be nothing but a fart in the wind.

[@TheDigitalThreat]

The insectoid models fiddily bits would rival the annoyance of the constant breaking chaos spikey bits.

[@GeryonM]

0:06 isn't this a picture of the ankheg from 4th edition D&D?

[@ultraranger1286]

Tyranids are those you guys?

[@lancekepley1234]

Please tell me you know the picture you used next to the block of text describing the tregara is from a YA fantasy series called the edgeworld chronicles?

[@lancekepley1234]

That is a race called spindlebugs

[@broadwater5218]

I’ll love this

[@hastur8670]

The image is an Ankegh from D&D 3rd edition

[@RockingRebelYell]

This would make such an amazing faction. I hope someone makes this for TW WH3

[@WrathOfLust]

Dont scaven fear everything anyways lol, now if title said "that even orcs feared id be impressed lol

[@horuslupercalaurelian1569]

In Spanish "te agarra" is interpreted into "it'll snatch your ass up" in English. The creators are pretty creative I gotta say

[@freknil5049]

8 feet subterranean bug that hungers for flesh. I think there was a movie about this long ago but they were from outer space.