Trek Emonda SL Cut Up and Review

[@cyclingmaven]

Now THIS is a bike review!! How good is the internet.

[@SimonGrowl]

It is fucking amazing. I am loving this new vibe of truthful real world reviews. There are a few guys doing good stuff like this now, which is really useful.

[@budesmatpicu3992]

You can bet your ass that Raoul will not get flooded by brand specimens for THIS kind of literally IN DEPTH review... unlike other cycling-related shows that stay on the usual profitable promotion side.

[@blizzbee]

More like a bike autopsy lol 😂 Great insight (inside) knowledge here.

[@gplama]

Great work on this format. I like it!

[@PersonaN007Grata]

Dang that’s a clean fiber job. Thx for the awesome videos! And thx to all the donors!

[@Rikitocker]

Great review and I just bought an Emonda SL6 2017 model - I wouldn't be too worried anyway since Trek support the frames with a Lifetime Warrantee. Still great to see how clean these are inside!

[@LeoInterHyenaem]

The cleanest carbon bike internals I've seen to date. A bit more resin might help the frayed carbon issue.

[@TheDarkInstall]

Excellent. Seriously useful. Please continue doing these for other manufacturers.

[@JPspinFPV]

Well done. These are the reviews I have been waiting to see. As someone who works in the industry, this really helps me inform customers on their buying decisions. I hope to see many more of the good, bad, and ugly. It will result in happier consumers, as well as force manufacturers to invest in better building processes. I think this has been touched on in previous comments, but I would recommend making some audio improvements. Otherwise, job well done. Cheers

[@LuescherTeknik]

Let me know what the audio improvements might be, I am trying to get the production as well as I can, but need feedback.

[@JoeyMesa]

The audio volume is low in the frame description portion. Not a huge deal, but that's the only audio improvement you could do IMO. Keep em coming!

[@robster6868]

I love my emonda sl6 2017, still going strong.Bad points had to replace bb bearings after a year and that silly bit of metal for braze on front mech fell off.

[@literoadie3502]

The manufacturers are probably watching these videos and hating you for showing what's behind the shinny paint!

[@pauldamian2988]

I doubt it. Any Mfg. worth his salt has his OWN quality control and has cut and WILL BE cutting samples from their production runs. Some design engineer probably see's these cut aways in his or her sleep! Still GREAT fun seeing this stuff first hand! Cheers!

[@literoadie3502]

Of course the engineers have seen it all a million times over, and probably bikes from other manufacturers too! What I mean is they probably wouldn't want the public seeing everything that they never talk about nor intended them to see. You know when they make bold claims like, ''the best race bike in the world'' or ''30 percent stronger AND stiffer than the competition.''

[@sergio895]

Eeeeexactly

[@LuescherTeknik]

Often the brand is disconnected from the contracted manufacturer, so they don't get to see as much of this as you might think.

[@RCNewsARG]

Please revew the Giant TCR

[@saltydog9117]

Just discovered this channel, but have been a fan through Mark's channel. Love this.

[@danfuerthgillis4483]

More and more every day I am glad I bought my Sava War Winds 4 Bike, since it's just using a solid Giant frame made in Taiwan. It's a more heavier frame but it's also more solid than any other bikes I seen.

[@kwakeham]

Well this explains my new ND side bearing in my madone failing prematurely.

[@sergio895]

This channel is pure gold. Thank you, thank you, thank you a million times. It gets a litte blit scary, but knowing is seeing.

[@monkmchorning]

Not bad for a mid-range carbon frame made in Taiwan. I bought a Madone 5 ten years ago on the basis of Trek's manufacturing processes and the lifetime frame warranty. It's been serving me well.

[@juanbautista5541]

Great! Thank you, i would like to see a review about Canyon CF SLX or similar from Canyon. Thanks again

[@stressle55]

This video is really great, but this is always the same type of bike frame in term of build process, what I want to see is something like Look 585 or 595 or even better Colnago C59 or C60 , some carbon frame with lugs and tubing... Thank you for all the work !

[@LuescherTeknik]

I have a Time and also a Colnago to cut up, I just need to get the time to do it, it will come.

[@stressle55]

thank you for responding so quickly , I'm french so it's weird yesterday I don't mentioned Time but in the afternoon I bought a Time VXS frame in 52cm for 200€ to replace the broken Willier frame of my sister , so I wait for your next vids like a kid for christmas...

[@earthstick]

I heard that look are doing their carbon fibre in house now. I saw a really interesting clip where they had a machine that was weaving unidirectlional carbon fibre threads around a tube into a kind of carbon fibre sock.

[@thunderpooch]

The benefit of lug construction: at the very least, the tube sections should be absolutely perfect. If they aren't, then the lug join up is probably a complete nightmare as well.

[@scottbecker4474]

Been waiting for these whole frame reviews for a while, thank you!

[@caperider1160]

I love this cut up review of carbon frames. It would help if you could tabulate all the essentials of your findouts for the different brands/models

[@lefessier]

Enjoyed this video! You mentioned that the void in the driveside chainstay was something you had seen on other models. Is this referring to other Trek models or other models by different manufacturers? Also how consistent is the quality across the same manufacturers in your opinion? (sorry if you already answered this in another of your videos, I think you have commented on quality control before but can't quite recall what you said) Thanks for taking the time to do these videos. It is really great to learn more about carbon bikes.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Other Trek frames.

[@newyorkperson]

This seems to be much cleaner than a lot of other bikes you are cutting up. Actually a lot cleaner, less voids, and the carbon patch below the water bottle mounts is actually straight.

[@justsayin3600]

Please keep this going! I appreciate someone like yourself, going through even the minutiae as you see it. If you can, seek out mountain bike frames as well. I'd really like to see how these are internally as well. Also, it would be good to get a video of your cutting process before the frames are cut.

[@LuescherTeknik]

There is a video of the cut up process from a little while ago. I will cut up a MTB when I can.

[@Jorge_Rodriguez83]

Great job man, keep these videos coming! How about cutting an alloy frame to get an inside look at hydroformed tubes!

[@iankocko2422]

brilliant video. just the sort of things we want to see. was good to know your thought at end about if a good buy or not even with miner faults. is there such things as a perfect fault free frame I wonder?

[@LuescherTeknik]

It depends on what is considered rejectable, as the frames get lighter this becomes more critical.

[@stevenellis8365]

Raoul, thanks so very much for your videos. Fascinating.

[@Sills71]

I am not a Trek fan but this is the cleanest frame I have seen Luescher cut up

[@srs31014]

Why are you not a fan, Sills71? Thinking of buying one and interested in what others experiences with them are...

[@UltimateTuner10]

As an owner of a 2016 this is nice to see

[@askebendtsen2473]

Great video! Really like the closeups of the issues.

[@2013danrazor2015danrazor]

oh nice format on these videos

[@mas465190]

Great and so informative. Realize this must take a lot of your time. Thanks so much!

[@LuescherTeknik]

Thanks, and yes it does take time. ;)

[@sward5106]

Great stuff!! Really useful review and hopefully the beginning of many more to come! Cheers for the huge amount of effort.

[@earthstick]

Another great cut up video but we have seen quite a few Treks now. It would be interesting to see a Giant because they are apparently the biggest bike manufacturer and do everything they can in house. Can we see one, please?

[@vigneshie]

Outstanding, thanks for taking the time! Would be great to see recent Specialized models and generally recent bikes from the big manufacturers. Is manufacturing process still rapidly evolving or has that matured at this point?

[@markayr2097]

Great demonstration, video quality excellent. Thanks!

[@lucianonarno1408]

Awesome video! Certainly a new concept, great idea. Only thing I recommend is making the audio quality better. Subscribed!

[@LuescherTeknik]

Thanks for the feedback, could you please give me more information on the audio as others have said that it is good.

[@jonjacobsen6339]

I love your videos! Fascinating information. Please keep it going!

[@fritztrabasas7331]

nice review. my concern on this frame is that the non drive side hanger keep corroding. i had it warranty. trek replace it. but the new start to corrode again.

[@lbmcr]

I'd be interested to see a few of the frames cut open to get a good over view

[@AdyShort]

Excellent VLOG, it would be good to get some sort of comparison between something like an Emonda SL and an Emonda SLR frame but I'm not sure if you get too many of those to slice up given their cost, maybe Trek can donate one, lol. Sort of - is it purely the carbon sheet quality or is there any manufacturing enhancements, difference between pro spec carbon frame and these sorts of general sale frames would make an interesting VLOG imho.

[@SamHocking]

Fascinating as always. Would love to hear more about how the foam is being used at certain junctions in the frame in a video. I assume it's foam that expands under heat to compress the layers where the inflatable bags/bladders would span across and miss, but not sure if they are also structural too perhaps? Thanks.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Typically it is used as a molding aid.

[@242tdryan]

Would pay money to see a cut away of an Emonda SLR, or any of the Wisconsin mfg Treks

[@LuescherTeknik]

Buy one and send it in!, just joking, it is a matter of when I can get one.

[@graydonbardwell4637]

242tdryan unfortunately trek doesn’t make frames in the USA anymore

[@sbrunau]

Thanks for the video. What year was the bike sold? What was the reason for cutting up the frame? Did it have a fault or was it sacrificed?

[@woottonp]

see some yellow marks on one of the chainstays, he uses the yellow pencil to mark areas of concern. He also didnt mention that area in this review so id hazard a guess thats a crash related inspection. Though that would just be my best guess not the man himself

[@LuescherTeknik]

I believe it is a 2015 model, it had some crash damage and was not practical to repair.

[@awesomexistence]

Crash damage 5:55 is pretty apparent where the top tube transitions to the seat tube.

[@schoebelski6602]

thanks for another great review! From all the bike-frames you cut into pieces so far, it seems the Emonda is one of the very best, right? ...I am personally not really "wow-ed" by the frames shapes and appearance (outside) ...but build-quality is there (inside) ...and reasonably priced, too!

[@ChristerJohansson]

Good video! Keep the reviews comming. possible with wheels also? And mtb products.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Yes, it just takes time.

[@goprout3475]

Amazing video, thank you so much Raoul!

[@shahidbashir8531]

Indeed a great review! why is foam used rather than a carbon fibre based putty of sorts? wouldn't the latter be stronger?

[@LuescherTeknik]

The foam is lighter and cheaper.

[@mccreadygossard]

Your vídeos are the best! Thank you!

[@LuescherTeknik]

Thanks for the feedback

[@bottomowashington]

This is so good. Really enjoying it keep it up

[@jonienglish3231]

Brilliant !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trek frame looks the cleanest !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@matthewdavidge4970]

really good, more of this sort of stuff would be great!

[@tonydautovic2245]

Great work!! looking to build a bike, carbon frames not sure on now! Maybe go aluminium, any suggestions on a top notch alloy frame? 👍🏼

[@enbirch]

Great video, really interesting to see inside the bikes we ride. What would you recommend doing to stop the corrosion on inserts for bottles and internal cable routing? Some grease on the screws I assume.

[@LuescherTeknik]

The corrosion is between the carbon and the insert, not the screw. This interface should be sealed at the factory ideally.

[@shadigif8916]

how about a review on a specialized carbon frame ?

[@priscacasian9998]

Very informative video, I really enjoyed it. Do you happen to have cut any Cervelo carbon frames? I would really like to know your opinion not necessarily on the frame but on Cervelo's manufacturing process.

[@cunn1n9]

I remember reading that Trek's are actually almost a lug based design in that each section (i.e. top tube, down tube, seat tube etc.) are made separately and then glued together. There are special internal shapes where the sections are pushed together and glued. If so then the molding of each section is simpler and more controllable than a full triangle monocoque and this could be the reason why the internal sections are so much better than other brands. Anyone know if this is still so?

[@AlexSwan]

Good stuff. I'll have to send you my Azzurri Forza one day when it's retired. Be interesting to see how well made those are. Considering the claims that are floating around... same factory as a few other major brands, quality but cheap because of no fancy name attached.

[@hugostiglitz1109]

Compare to the Pinarello dissection, goes to show how overprice the Pina is. The quality on this Trek is excellent considering.

[@earthstick]

A question about the moulding process. The process makes all these wrinkles where the bag used to press the carbon into the mould has wrinkles in it when it inflates. Why not put that airtight bag inside another bag made of rubber? The rubber bag can expand with the inner bag but because it is rubber it will smooth out the wrinkles.

[@DUCKS2525]

Thanks! Great video! Question, why don't they use a 316L stainless steel rivet with higher nickel content instead of alum.?

[@LuescherTeknik]

Because it is more expensive. Thanks for the feedback.

[@MP48]

yes the added expense is a few cents per unit but when you're buying a million inserts those cents add up pretty quickly!!

[@markcooke5075]

i just bought one and was admittedly on edge when i saw this video pop up..... hahaha

[@LuescherTeknik]

Relax.

[@thunderpooch]

Honestly, all these bikes look pretty awful. I don't think carbon is a good choice for small layups to the consumer class. Aircraft wings, large applications, etc, forget about it. It's a brilliant material. If you're sponsored or have money to burn than carbon is amazing, but it still seems inferior to steel, aluminum, or ti. Worrying about weight for amateurs is such a neurotic fool's game. The only reason to swear by carbon is if you like the ride quality and/or want some aero efficiency gains. I say all this as a carbon frame owner. I like the ride but I hate that the inside is probably full of imperfections and that scratching a carbon frame can ruin it it. Metal of any kind gives peace of mind.

[@schoebelski6602]

@@thunderpooch no peace of mind, with any material ...sorry. ;-)

[@thunderpooch]

@@schoebelski6602 *more peace of mind

[@davidshields1240]

Would you recommend a particular carbon bike brand for build quality of frame or is it the case of the majority of top brands being similar i.e. Trek, Cannondale, Specialized & Giant

[@MP48]

I doubt he will recommend a particular brand since faults can occur on any frame. Reason for this is that the manufacturing process is still hand lay up and we humans are prone to mistakes. Some manufacturers make less mistakes but that manufacturer may build bikes for many brands, as will a less experienced manufacturer

[@nezbian]

A comparison between Higher and lower grade carbon would be great from the same bike model and manufacture. i.e. Super Six evo and Supersix evo hi-mod. Wondering if the 'higher' grade is really that much better or just marketing spin.

[@LuescherTeknik]

To determine the actual fibre grade takes some serious lab equipment, so hard to tell in a video, the molding process would most likely be similar. Something to look at though, I will see if can get something for this.

[@MP48]

How would you segregate the different fibre grades? Solvent wash to dissolve the resin, then acid stripping till you get to individual fibres?

[@pelemlangka]

Please review trek madone slr. Thank you

[@tobegan3753]

Shane told me to subscribe...so I did. Great video!

[@alexr5819]

Great video! How many hours of work does it take to cut a frame like this in half?

[@LuescherTeknik]

Cutting the frame is easy it is the video production that takes time!

[@bobfoster687]

Raoul, At 5:49 there appears to be a Crack at yhe top tube seat tube junction. You did not comment on this. ???

[@awesomexistence]

Crack is through the carbon as well and definitely apparent externally.

[@daniel-hruska]

Great review! Could you rate reviewed components e.g. 8/10? It may be hard for us - non carbon industry people - to understand what is an cosmetic issue and what is a real problem. During this video you've pointed out like 30 spots and one may think that all of them are some kind of failure and that the frame must be rubbish. But it's not :)

[@LuescherTeknik]

I did a summary at the end, the problem with a score is that as the tech improves an 8 today may only be a 6 next year, so not sure what the best way is.

[@daniel-hruska]

Thank you. I guess you're right with the score.

[@gizmofreeride]

Maybe just take a quite common, mid priced frame from 2016 as a reference and give it a score of 100 let's say, and compare every frame to that giving -/+ values. It would give a rough estimate. Do you have some MTB frames maybe aswell? :)

[@6SpeedTA95]

I don't like Trek and secretly wanted this to be a disaster but it's not bad really. I'm impressed.

[@김선호-e5u]

Next, please review it with izalco max.

[@labmatthew]

Please review a Colnago C-RS

[@yogger77]

I'd love to see Giant tcr advanced- I've heard treks & giants are manufactured in the same factories.

[@LuescherTeknik]

I have a few of those available to cut up, just need the time to do it.

[@yogger77]

Luescher Teknik Thanks Raul. Btw- you have reached Poland with your videos mate! :)

[@JustinCrediblename]

so is that 5 layers on carbon on the downtube?

[@Snugship01]

Hi I'm just wondering do you sell the frames you cut I'm looking for a PINARELLO dogma for the wall in the man cave thanks

[@Snugship01]

Love the reviews

[@ronykuba]

Is it possible that their US made bikes are built better? (Emonda SLR, Madone 9 H1 etc.)

[@LuescherTeknik]

Send one in and we can put it to the test! ;)

[@brucewayne3141]

Madone 9 frames are made in taiwan.

[@NathanTeskey]

Nice video mate. Great Quality. What do you cut the bikes with?

[@LuescherTeknik]

A diamond saw.

[@TheIlieDanila]

you know what I want to see? a section of some really expensive frames (Pinarello please) to see with my own eyes if the price tag is based on the quality of the craft...

[@LuescherTeknik]

I have these, just need the time to cut them up and make the video.

[@TheIlieDanila]

Please do, good sir.

[@beaconakakevin1993]

Can you show us how you build bikes ?

[@earthstick]

Question about carbon frames and bike packing. There are a lot of people starting to mount frame bags on carbon road frames instead of using panniers on purpose made steel touring bikes. Are carbon frames going to stand up to this kind of use especially where people use a seatpost bag with 10kgs in it?

[@sodalitia]

Why wouldn't they? If the bike can take heavier rider, surely it can take about 10 kg more weight at the seatpost. If the seat tube fails under a bit of more load its a garbage craftsmanship anyway. I see also no problem with top tube strap on bags. If anything, its actually better than panniers that require more rivets and holes that compromise the structure of a carbon frame. The only concern would be an over tightened stem on carbon steerer, that takes extra load of handlebar bag. But than again, almost all new metal bikes use carbon forks, so what is really the difference?

[@earthstick]

@@sodalitia The material used should not matter if the bike is specifically made for carrying a load but people are using seatpost bags on road racing frames that are not made for that purpose. I have heard about aluminium frames separating at the seatpost-toptube junction because of stress from a seatpost bag. There is a difference between a persons weight being transferred down through the seatpost and a seatpost bag hanging out the back pulling the seatpost back.

[@sodalitia]

@@earthstick Yes, there is a difference, due to leverage. But to be honest how much of a difference? If you use very long bag and put heavy weight right at the end of it and its dangling up and down, than yes. But I don't see how moderate, snug bag is any more stress than a lets say 90 kg rider on the seatpost that has an angle of sett for compliance. Probably high end road bikes, where they go to insane weight savings and compromise the strenght of the material a bag would be a bad idea. But look at racing cross-country bikes or MTBs made of carbon. Those are meant to withstand jumps and cyclist jumping on the seat post all the time.

[@earthstick]

@@sodalitia But it was those high end road bikes that I was referring to. People are kiting those out with frame bags and seatpost bags when the design remit was as far from loaded touring as you could get.

[@sodalitia]

@@earthstick Fair enough.

[@elidouek5438]

Is carbon fiber a machinable material? could it be turned on a lathe for example? if so, is there specific tooling for it, or would normal HSS or carbide inserts work?

[@LuescherTeknik]

It can be machined, typically diamond or carbide cutters are used.

[@markyoung950]

When are you going to cut open one of your bikes?

[@trekmadone1048]

Do you havd a cut out version of an slr version of the emonda

[@glennoc8585]

nice quality really enjoyed it.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Thanks

[@Michaelmas68]

do you sell commercially, the bikes you built???

[@Craigwdlr]

Please can you cut open an argon18 Gallium Pro as well as one of your bikes :)

[@OriginalBlackwiggle1]

As you have stated previously in you dissections of Frames & Forks, each bike might suffer defects, at any one time, at any different place....the variables are huge. Rather than dissecting a FEW [ Ultimate info for that particular frame / but it is now cut in half, now rendered useless], why not internal camera probe the whole bike, through all available probe points.....do that several times, over several of the same bike frames. Get a average of what any defects found are, why & where they are found, and on what YOU perceive as DANGEROUS. to ride one.

[@LuescherTeknik]

I do ultrasound scans to determine this, the cut up frames are the scrapped ones from that test. An internal camera will not tell you much compared to the ultrasound scan, cutting the frames up is very visual for most people.

[@OriginalBlackwiggle1]

I understand you testing regime , and how what you find 'generally' gives people a understanding of what to look out for. BUT, surely with your intimate knowledge of 'Known Failure- Alert points' available to be monitored by all your viewers using a simple USB internal camera probe, you could give your KZbin subscribers some idea of 'Visual Clues' or 'Warning Signs' when seen via a USB probe cameras , of possible structural failure the viewers bike might be suffering. You might be hesitant do do this, and I understand the reason that might be, as uncertainty regarding frame integrity has lead to a lot of people sending their bikes to you for scanning. All well and good on a Frame / Fork that has possibly had a incident, but on a totally new frame and fork? I think you underestimate your viewing audience. A lot have found your site via other bike forums, a lot of your new viewers would not be owners of CF frames or forks as yet, and are currently reluctant to purchase one, due to the stigma of possible carbon fiber catastrophic failure has....minds need to be left at ease.

[@connect4king]

Can you cut up some Chinese open frames?

[@RevelCris]

made by Giant right ?

[@metamurph]

what happens when you build your own frames

[@BikeBodyMind]

this is amazing!

[@Hawlkeye-e9p]

As a software tester i would send this back to the devs with a list of fix requests. These frames are pre beta and are being sold to the public.

[@nikonlickon]

whats the chance of an S Works Tarmac cut up?

[@LuescherTeknik]

I have one from a few years ago cut up, I just need to video it.

[@saltydog9117]

I hope people at Trek et. al. see this.

[@CMgraffix]

Giant bike? Please

[@LuescherTeknik]

I have some to cut up, I will get to it when I can.

[@Arfer1Bar1Genius]

More MoreMoreMoreMorevMoreMoreMoreMoreMoreMoreMorevMoreMoreMoreMoreMoreMoreMoreMoreMore

[@thelmaviaduct]

Made by Giant???

[@wesw6787]

Idd, the emonda SL is made by Giant I've read. Not all trek models are made by Giant though.

[@loopie007]

Not really sure what to think about this video. The Trek SL frame is made in China at the same factory as many other brands. Why would we expect the build quality to be different than any other frame made from this factory. What would be great would be a cuttting open of a Trek SLR frame that was made in USA. Those cost a premium and it would be nice to see what you are getting for the extra money.

[@LuescherTeknik]

I would be happy to cut up and SLR and review it, I just need someone to donate one to science. I don't get paid enough to buy a new one to cut up;)

[@geolocate]

I'm never getting a carbon bike after watching these videos.

[@londonlionel]

Your metal bike will almost certainly have a carbon fork

[@deuterateddad5989]

so far 1.) Cannondale 2.) Trek 3.) BMC

[@lbmcr]

can we see the bikes you build for yourself

[@LuescherTeknik]

Sure, but I am not cutting them up just yet!

[@lbmcr]

Luescher Teknik ... no .. no cutting just a look at the builds.. thanks

[@cnewton61]

Raol, I have a mate with a sloppy fitting bottom bracket bearing. How do you fix it?

[@LuescherTeknik]

It depends on how big the gap is.