Trek Madone 2016 - Cut up and Review

[@willum5175]

Thanks for cutting up this Madone Raoul. I have a 2018 9.0 version of this bike and wanted to offer some thoughts for other watchers. I can absolutely confirm that the cabling is ridiculously hard to work with. It is made worse in that the shops that sell them in some cases aren’t very good at working on them either. If you are mechanically capable, you can re-cable the bike but it probably isn’t something that less inclined people should try to do. I can also say that the bottom bracket is a problem but maybe in a different way than typically described in my case. I have 6500 miles on mine and have the original drive side BB bearing still in use. I am on the 4th left side BB bearing. The right side is basically shielded from sweat due to its construction but the left side basically funnels sweat into the bearing which causes it to rust out quickly. After going through this multiple times, I’ve found that the only way to make it last is regular disassembly and regreasing of the bearing. I suppose misalignment or something may be involved but it runs smooth until the bearing gets contaminated. No creaks or other issues on mine. Different greases do make a difference as well. The brakes are a bit weak but maybe not as bad as some other commentators have said. They are a bit fiddly but once you have worked with them some they are easy to maintain and adjust as well. 9.0 wheels are garbage and break spokes regularly even with cautious riding. Corrosion at the hub to spoke interface seems to trigger this. In order to make them last they must be cleaned regularly beyond what most people would do for any other bike. If you don’t sweat much or don’t ride in high heat this might not be an issue for you. Most other parts are pretty good. Seat, bars and bar tape are all very good. Seems strange to highlight but the bar tape is super durable and comfortable. The flat top aluminum bars are also really good. ISO speed is good but I don’t know how much it contributes, but I agree that it probably helps a lot given the frame shaping. Not sure the aero claims are true and whatever good it may do is definitely not worth the trouble the design causes. IF you are getting the bike, I would strongly suggest electronic shifting! Thanks again for the cut-up! I’ve been waiting for this video for a while. Glad to see the frame will likely not explode under me at any moment!

[@bonzobanana1]

That reads as a very poor product for such a high price. Not a premium experience at all and soo much money and time wasted. It's like a owning a Lamborghini or Ferrari with the experience costing a huge amount of money but unlike cars you supply the engine. I certainly couldn't justify such a bike with my engine.

[@umTeacher01]

Saw the notification and got here faster than whatever the market department say about these bikes

[@YoureSoVane]

Honestly, this video is a better review than anything Bike Radar pushes out

[@galenkehler]

I got clipped by a car and knocked into the back of the parked car beside, broke my fork off and totalled the car. Glad to be alive and hope your guy is still with us and ok.

[@kidsafe]

Made by Quest Composite. The only bike brands they work with are Trek and Canyon. They also do sporting equipment like tennis racquets, softball/baseball bats, golf club shafts, etc.

[@bonzobanana1]

Doesn't it look like a Giant though and the frame number starts with 'GT' which seems possible to mean Giant. Giant produce more advanced frames than Quest Composites and the frame is quite old now. I still think many brands Canyon and Trek may use Quest Composites for their high volume cheaper CF bikes and perhaps Giant for their top end premium models. I realise for Trek that could be 3 tiers, tier 1 USA, tier 2 Giant and tier 3 Quest Composites. Also I had a feeling the USA volumes were very low and more for marketing in order to hold onto their US manufacturing badge even if a absolutely tiny ratio of the bikes they sell. Hat's off to Quest Composites if it is them though as it looks like the best Quest Composite frame I've seen and a very ambitious frame too. If its Trek's bottom bracket design that perhaps is the biggest weakness of its design sadly. The frame looks so well made to Trek's perhaps less than perfect design that it feels like it is likely Giant. That floating seat tube is quite advanced and feels like the sort of thing Giant would have the reputation to deliver as probably the best manufacturer of high volume CF frames and forks.

[@davidngqkalone88]

@@bonzobanana1 not accurate that quest 'only' works with trek and canyon. Most people don't realise that to a bike brand, factory is a factory whether it's quest or giant or jiangsu or pro tec or someone else. Sure you have 'preferred vendors' like you say trek might prefer to work with quest but if the factory quota is full up you go to the next guy down the line. The same bike model may be made in multiple factories-- example, see specialised or bianchi, some model have frames made in both Vietnam and Taiwan.

[@bonzobanana1]

@@davidngqkalone88 I'm not the one saying Quest only work with Trek and Canyon but its widely reported that Quest do make many frames for those brands but as I said above the Trek frame of this video is likely made by Giant. Any importer can choose different factories for different price points, yearly updates and may even have the same model being manufactured across multiple factories if they need that capacity. To the consumer like myself it means I have no real knowledge about the quality of that particular brand as it may vary across price points and when it was manufactured. Also the EU put tariffs on bikes from China but had tariff free arrangements with Cambodia, Bangladesh and Vietnam so in the EU we get many bikes from those countries but back then the US was still getting its models from China. So where you buy the bike may dictate which factory was used for the same brand. Also importers play factories against each other so factory A) says $20 a frame and the importer asks factory B) if they can beat that price, they say $19 a frame and the offer the same terms to the existing factory but if they say no they go with the cheaper factory etc. Walmart do this all the time and I'm sure its done in the bike industry. Typically a factory that has spare capacity will likely accept a lower price so it helps utilise fully the capacity of factories but its a race to the bottom in quality. Personally I'd rather just buy a brand that makes its own bikes like Giant, they are brilliant quality and value for that quality. Otherwise it just ends up as a lottery what you are getting.

[@davidngqkalone88]

@@bonzobanana1 that is fair. Giant makes good quality for the price. For all other brands who are not manufacturers you are riding on their QC and branding

[@markblanch2905]

@@davidngqkalone88 that would sure create some QA nightmares

[@MerlinMan1579]

I worked as a mechanic for Trek. Building these up was a half a day of very precise cable calculations and routing. Personally I loved the design, but the complexity of the front end and its inability to easily be adjusted steered me away from purchasing one.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Thanks for sharing!

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

I know a little late reply. But do you happen to know whatvyear they stopped making them in the USA?

[@brucewayne3141]

One cutup a week, is this Christmas season?

[@steveflor9942]

Hi Folks, a comment on the Isospeed seat damper, which I have been riding for 2 years. It works!! Insofar as taking the edge off bumps and smoothing road noise. As far as I can tell, is does NOT detract from pedaling efficiency, even a Watt. Adds 75-100grams. Which seems like a very fair trade-off.

[@shibaburn7725]

Physics demands that it has to detract some.

[@ohshitnotanotherknob]

@@shibaburn7725 depends on the hysteresis.

[@steveflor9942]

@@shibaburn7725 Certainly true. So, I'll state it this way: It seems well more efficient than other road damping systems I have tried. My literal, unscientific seat-of-the-pants.

[@markblanch2905]

@@shibaburn7725 why? Since when does a bum supply power to wheels via a seat post? That defies any logic

[@Civairda]

Yay double dose of Raoul's knowledge for today!!

[@earthstick]

Some of these newer bikes are noticeably better than the older ones. Internally much smoother surfaces. It looks like they have made progress in that respect. One thing I keep wondering is how the foam filler is put between the layers of fibre. I''m guessing they are not like the liquid PU foam you get in a can for building projects that expands to fill a cavity. I guess they are solid parts pre-made from foam to a specific shape that are placed in the mould during layup.

[@Angle-of-Attack]

Nice video. Why does the manufacturer choose not to use adhesive bonding between the EPS section of the headtube and the bagged sections of the of the top tube and downtube? @15:00 downtube meets headtube and seam is visible without adhesive.

[@invsbme7789]

waiting to see some of Ridley Noah SL cut up in nearly future 🙂

[@WowRixter]

Some people call that progress 😂. Another great cut-up review. Looks like one of the better builds

[@donaldmurray7529]

Nice to be able to see how the previous generation is basically the same as the current system on my 2020 SL Domane. They just put an aero shell around it on this version of the Madone.

[@larisonjohnson]

Another great cut up! “Beyond the scope of everybody in the bike industry”....love that line. Gotta get a zinger in there If the trusty “less than ideal” can’t be applied. 🤣🤣🤣

[@galenkehler]

Amazing how unsupported the forward half of the bearing is. Aero is important but that looks scary having the bearing support cantilevered out in front.

[@v57163]

The crash caused delamination. I have 2018 model cut up, all prefect in that area.

[@markblanch2905]

@@v57163 still, you can't beat physics and the realities/properties of cantilever on a high load, vibrating object.

[@jeffvalore5010]

Amazed at how nicely make this Trek is. Though at the first glance I thought that front area behind the head tube, where the de-lamination happened, looked a bit thin. Reminds me of the "Chinarello" when compared to the Pirarello.

[@hockeyiscanada]

Whatever factory makes this frame does a great job, cleanest inside of a frame I've seen !!

[@kidsafe]

Quest Composite. Their only other bike customer is Canyon.

[@axomas]

@@kidsafe Arent the madones manufactured in USA by trek themselves? Quest is the chinese partner.

[@kidsafe]

@@axomas It used to be that OCLV 700 bikes were manufactured at Trek HQ. Then it became only Project One bikes. Then in mid-2017, they stopped US production altogether.

[@parthmache4733]

can you please do a scott bike cutup

[@stefanocaroleo618]

Is it just me or does the inside of a carbon bike look exactly the same as the inside of a chocolate easter egg?

[@shibaburn7725]

Chocolate Easter bunnies are much more complex to mold than eggs. Several times I've found the remains of the bladder bag still inside when I've done my cut-up.

[@dafj5618]

Cracking work Raoul

[@scsgf]

Great video. Any video on a cut Cervelo S5. I know you did a video on the steering of a S5 alright

[@LuescherTeknik]

Not yet!

[@VikMTB]

Awesome work and great looking bike

[@shibaburn7725]

Thanks for going back to the red pen. The yellow pen was really hard to see against lighter areas, especially on smaller screens. By the way, has it ever occured to you that a manufacturer could make a "Raoul-special" frame, and then damage it, and then have someone bring it to you for repair, posing as a regular customer?

[@LuescherTeknik]

It's highly unlikely that a brand would go to that much trouble as I don't get that many views, if they did they should spend the time and money on better quality instead.

[@shibaburn7725]

@@LuescherTeknik Actually if the manufacturer makes special better quality frames for the pro teams that they sponsor, they could bring one of those crashed frames to you.

[@markblanch2905]

Hilarious! As if Raoul wouldn't be able to identify a copy of his own bike 🤣

[@joeswright86]

Good to see. EPS looks to be a much better process.

[@vastosbicycles8325]

Another great vid to make this Friday night wonderful. Thank you! The molding and manufacturing quality is very good, but the design is some sort of hypocritical.

[@steveflor9942]

This Madone - version 5 - was the last carbon frame to be made inhouse, in Waterloo. My Madone -.2019 version 6 - has made in Taiwan stickers. I wonder if it has the same beautiful, high quality molding...? Thanks, Raoul for this fascinating video.

[@rkan2]

Taiwanese frames are usually pretty good.

[@steveflor9942]

@@rkan2 I agree. I have a Giant mountain bike from Taiwan. Perfect right out of the box. That said..... My Madone has been trouble from the first ride. BB shell misaligment - creak. Undersized BB molded cups squeeze bearings - wear quickly. Giant carbon road frames made in Taiwan don't seem to have those problems... m

[@shibaburn7725]

Other commenters are saying that it was manufactured by Quest Composite. Who is correct?

[@bonzobanana1]

Quest Composites aren't in Taiwan so not made there unless they do the actual manufacturing and the frames are painted in Taiwan. More likely I feel the more premium bikes are made by someone like Giant (this cutup shows GT at the beginning of the number shown) and their cheaper CF bikes are Quest Composites but I'm only guessing.

[@steveflor9942]

@@shibaburn7725 I spoke in error folks. Looked again... no made in Taiwan sticker on my bike.

[@PersonaN007Grata]

After watching all your videos, I bought a steel bike.

[@bonzobanana1]

Use a steel fork on a carbon fibre frame which it seems no manufacturer offers as standard, it is by far the CF forks that are more dangerous than the frames because of the high risk of death when forks fail without warning. The frame I think in contrast is more likely to break where you can slow down in a controlled way. I realise this is an over-simplification but is mostly true. Seems bonded CF blades/aluminium steerer forks are worse than CF only forks too because of bonding failure too.

[@sepg5084]

@@bonzobanana1 aluminium fork and frame, then carbon seatpost, handle bar, and seat. But the amount of weight saved might not be worth it.

[@ChristerJohansson]

Another great video Raul, thanx! Come to think of it as you focus quite a bit on the consequence of the impact on this frame, in conjunction with the design "mistake" of the Cervelo steerer limiter reviewed earlier; Does the bike industry have any sort of safety protocol that needs to be followed when designing frames? I mean, car industry must adhere to test crash test protocols, helmet manufacturers as well, but frame manufacturers...? All design, and no real design constraints other than weight and ratios as UCI dictates? Thanx again!

[@LuescherTeknik]

There are ISO test standards, however these could be more specific to composites.

[@emilianoc.6641]

Awesome analysis! would you do this to a Trek ProCaliber? Looking Very Forward to it! Thanks

[@LuescherTeknik]

I currently don't have a Procaliber, if you can get one to send in we can do it.

[@thomasprovencher4611]

I'll bet Trek used the depth limited bidon bolt mount on the seat tube to protect the inner seat tube from a clueless mechanic using a bolt which is long enough to hit it.

[@richardhaselwood9478]

Thanks Raoul.

[@glennoc8585]

Didn't the domane have a similar post pivot? Look to big for me, not a fan if the super aero look for the road.

[@NeoPayneHK]

can i ask how long did it serve? thank you~

[@kitten-inside]

Now that you called that terrible frontal weakness "almost a fuse", watch and see how it gets picked up by marketing. "Our frames are strategically weak so you know when they break. And break they will."

[@PersonaN007Grata]

Andrzej Sawicki Crumple zone

[@AandA697]

That bike looks like a spaceship with its front break

[@Sills71]

I rode a Domane for 1100 miles... the front Isospeed does not work.... the Emonda I rode was smoother and the ti bike I ride was too... the seat tube Isospeed did work.

[@jerryyoung6494]

I was hoping for the madone. Maybe weird to want to see the model I own. Mine is the prior model unfortunately!

[@maddoc68]

Surprisingly good frame😳.

[@JogBird]

Trek Madone 2016 - Cup up and Review

[@NeoPayneHK]

Cheers~~~~~~~~~~~~

[@brianbob7514]

Are any treks still made in USA?

[@bullkarnage3673]

No. All in china and painted in the US. Only the xxx wheels are made in the factory now

[@shibaburn7725]

No, the re-introduction of their US manufacturing only lasted a few years.

[@Bill-xs3nh]

They do some of the Project One layups and manufacturing here in the US still. It really depends on the model.

[@shibaburn7725]

@@Bill-xs3nh No, not for a number of years. If Trek was still manufacturing them in the US, they would advertise it.

[@Bill-xs3nh]

Shiba Burn I’ve seen them laying up the carbon at a Wisconsin Factory Tour within the last year. Some of the top end Project 1 frames and I believe their “Ultimate Experience” $25,000 package bikes are all laid up in Wisconsin. They in fact do advertise it on the frame when you get a P1 sticker that says “Made in the United States”

[@johntharp22]

This looks so much better than the old Colnago C40 I watched beforehand.

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

Never did a C40.

[@madmonkeycycling9098]

Both Canyon & Trek are made by Quest Composites to my knowledge.

[@durianriders]

Canyon are made in Germany by Harvad composite tech masters.

[@janvanrookhuijzen8309]

Their website says so: Quest is a key partner to the best bike companies in the world-Trek and Canyon.

[@hasannoor5537]

I think taishun sports from China also manufactures for trek, cervelo and specialized

[@TheAntoine191]

@@durianriders they probably build prototype and maybe the latest super trick frame but the bulk of canyon frames are certainly not produced in germany.

[@happydays8171]

@@durianriders Canyons are designed in Germany and the molds made there, then sent off to their contractor in China. That's how they sell the for less.

[@michaellangston271]

This layup is the cleanist I have seen. It is sad that Pinnarello QC is so bad, and can't match a mid level bike.

[@olo398]

wow an actual good frame....alas seems to be a dime a dozen...

[@Grunge_Cycling]

Sadly they are not very stiff

[@fatwheezer4894]

Looks like Richie's curse may have been lifted. Must have been leaving those Roo's alone😂

[@Pinnkong]

👍

[@Hou5eSounds]

Canyon and trek are produced by the same manufacturer, quest composites.

[@bonzobanana1]

Haven't they used different manufacturers at different times and also sometimes brands use more premium manufacturers for their high end models. I seem to remember Canyon used to use Giant for their CF frames but moved to Quest Composites but did that apply to all models or did they keep some production at Giant? As consumers with brands trying to hide the real manufacturer's from us (often badly) we often only get fragmented information which I think can often be out of date if the brand has already started moving production to another cheaper manufacturer. I don't think we get the full picture and it would be near impossible to do so.

[@Hou5eSounds]

@@bonzobanana1 good call, they similar processes used makes me think that it's the same factory.

[@Bill-xs3nh]

@@bonzobanana1 we once received a Trek Madone in a Giant branded box from the Factory (Whoops!)

[@ridetheheckler]

Giant makes nice bikes!

[@Civairda]

These are made by Quest Composites in China. I think they also make Canyon carbon bikes.

[@menace251284]

@@Civairda Yes, correct.

[@jerryyoung6494]

Don’t use a red pen! It makes all the yellow pen merchandise obsolete!

[@Sills71]

"some people call that progress" LOL...

[@essex__rider]

ooh! First!

[@kangzosa]

It probably crashed into the back of a car because the brakes on this bike are AWFUL

[@kangzosa]

@John N doesn't Chance the reality of treks proprietary brakes performance

[@event4216]

Track bikes don't have brakes at all (playing with words, for those who'd take this too seriously).

[@jreitsma]

I’ve found the braking hugely depends on the pads you use. Braking is fantastic on mine when using SwissStop pads.