10 Dumbest Things In Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan

[@letosgoldenpath1993]

This just made me want to watch the movie again. Have to mention, I saw this in 1982 with a very lively audience. When Spock was dying, you would have thought family members were witnessing the death of a grand patriarch. If a fire broke out in the theater, you could have extinguished it with tears. People were consoling each other in the lobby. It tells you the power and charisma Leonard Nimoy's Spock conveyed to Star Trek fans. It was a beautiful thing.

[@morganjohnson539]

I felt that way when I saw it. While it is common these days to kill off important characters, back then we had the luxury of keeping them through the whole saga. It did feel to me like I lost a brother, a mentor, and a friend. The gut punch drove home when they played AMAZING GRACE at the funeral.

[@oahuhawaii2141]

Yeah, Spock dying gutted lots of folks in the audience. Many stood around when the lights came back on, and just couldn't believe he got offed by Gene!

[@romanclark3274]

I was 12 when I saw this in the theatre. I had been watching the original series on TV since the age of 6. I went home crying after this movie because they killed off Spock and had to wait 2 years for him to be resurrected.

[@superfan7052]

I was one of those sobbing…. But I knew I just knew when I saw the torpedo capsule intact on the surface there might possibly be a chance…

[@PAGoTribe1963]

@@morganjohnson539 If I saw that scene today - 40+ years later - I'd still lose it.

[@Hawkeye1701]

Lest we forget that the Reliant failed to notice that an entire planet was missing from the Ceti-Alpha System. "Arriving at Ceti-Alpha 6! But... it's only the 5th planet according to sensors... OH WELL!"

[@justinjrebbert]

This is definitely my biggest gripe. Since Kirk dropped Khan on Ceti Alpha V, that system would’ve been mapped at least at a basic level. The number of planets and their orbits would be stored in the memory banks of all starships. When Reliant arrived at the system, it should’ve been noticed that the configuration of the system did not match what was expected. Not only was one planet missing, the alteration of mass distribution would’ve caused changes to the orbits of the other planets. Nothing about Reliant not noticing any of that makes any sense.

[@robertcasey9550]

The orbit of Ceti Alpha V was altered, as Khan had indicated, but other points well made.

[@deadairconversion]

Totally!

[@jameslynch2399]

The explanation I've always heard is that the crew of Reliant arrived at the system and started counting from the outer-most orbit inward. Since Ceti Alpha VI had exploded, Ceti Alpha V took its place in the count.

[@sebclot9478]

@@jameslynch2399 A bit lazy on the part of the crew, but plausible. It's also possible that the original ceti alpha 6 had an atmosphere similar to the now Orbit-shifted Ceti-Alpha 5. Leading the crew to believe that Ceti-Alpha 5 or some other planet in the system was the missing or destroyed planet.

[@tscream80]

0:37 - Fun Fact that probably everyone knows: The subtitle change from "The Vengeance of Khan" to "The Wrath of Khan" was due to the still in development third Star Wars film being subtitled, at the time, "Revenge of the Jedi." Paramount changed it to its current title so as not to confuse movie going audiences... only for Lucas to change *his* title to "Return of the Jedi." Oops. Although, in retrospect... "The Wrath of Khan" works so much better.

[@meyou3013]

Lucas changed Jedi's title because he felt Jedi would never take revenge.

[@christopherthorkon3997]

Yes, very interesting. I remember well.

[@johnwestcott5612]

It really is.

[@chrisbolton7180]

I'm sorry but I'm one of the very few that don't think warth of Khan is not the best.

[@oahuhawaii2141]

Chris, you have a double negative, so it makes it seem you do think it's the best. Yet the rest of the statement indicates otherwise. Thus, you made an illogical comment. Spock disapproves.

[@patricktilton5377]

The reason Scotty brings Peter Preston up to the Bridge instead of to Sickbay -- I think -- is because the lad is his nephew and they both know he's a goner, and the lad's dying wish was to see the Bridge of the ship he has just given his life to save, just once before he dies. And Scotty didn't have the heart to deny him his last request. Also, Spock's reaction to seeing this example of self-sacrifice -- Preston's 'Kobayashi Maru' test -- sets the stage for him to do what he does later in the film, to sacrifice himself in order to save the ship. Scotty didn't bring the cadet up to the Bridge against his will -- that would be just reprehensible! No, the only reason he would bring him there was because the dying lad had BEGGED him to do so, so that he could see that the Command Deck of the ship was still in working order and able to stay in-the-fight due to his own heroism. Undoubtedly, Peter Preston had had ambitions of becoming a Chief Engineer on a starship, just like his uncle Scotty, which would have resulted in frequent moments spent on the Bridge at its Engineering station -- even, at times, having the Conn, sitting in the Captain's chair, when the Captain was away with his 1st Officer. All of that future he'd dreamed of, and knew he would never get to experience, had to have motivated the dying cadet to beg -- to insist -- that Scotty take him up to the Bridge, to fulfill his final lifelong dream, rather than make the trip to Sickbay where he was going to end up dead eventually anyway. Scotty knew that there wasn't a damn thing McCoy could do to keep his nephew alive, the physical trauma being fatal.

[@hambone5718]

Or his dying, (death) over what he did was so shocking to Scotty, He acted without thinking and brought him to the bridge, showing the Captain the kids' commitment that, as Scotty said, "He stayed at his post" Seeing death and dying affects everyone differently.

[@jimmyd102000]

This is the "making up explanations" thing that she was referring to. Yes, the scene establishing that they are related was omitted, but bringing him to the bridge instead of sickbay makes no sense since the guy is dying, but isn't dead.

[@patricktilton5377]

@@jimmyd102000 According to Vonda McIntyre's novelization, Chapter 6, the attack resulted in an explosion that led to a hull-breach which soon was remedied by emergency doors sliding into place to prevent further depressurization. As a cadet named Grenni urged Peter Preston that they both had to get out of there, ________________________________________________- Peter looked up. Right above them, a heat-transfer pipe hissed thick yellow-green smoke through a crack in the triple-layered unbreakable matrix of the tube. Peter watched with horror. Coolant leak was supposed to be impossible.The radiation signal flashed stroboscopically while the noxious-gas warning hooted. The poisonous coolant gas flooded the trainee area. Peter's eyes burned. Grenni grabbed his arm and tried to pull him away as the rest of the group fled. "You're on-line!" Peter cried. "Shit!" Grenni yelled. He broke and ran. Peter fumbled for his respirator. He could barely see by the time he got it on. His chest felt crushed. The primary control panel was damaged, and Lieutenant Kasatsuki lay unconscious on the deck. She was responsible for the auxiliary power main controls that Grenni and Peter were supposed to back up. Now, Grenni's console blinked and beeped for attention. If no one did anything, auxiliary power would fail completely. The gas closed in around Peter as he overrode the hardware hierarchy and brought his own machine on-line. Despite the respirator, his eyes still teared and burned. The screams of pain and fear crashed over him like waves. Commander Scott shouted orders amid the chaos. Peter heard it all, but it was a light-year away; he felt almost as if he had merged with the Enterprise--his actions came so smoothly and he knew so easily and so certainly what he had to do. Back on the bridge [ . . . ] ____________________________________________ From then on, the novelization has the battle waged pretty much as it happens in the film, but then Vonda has Kirk & Spock take the turbolift down to the Engineering level, whereupon they see: _______________________________________________ The engineer stood trembling, spattered with blood, holding Peter Preston in his arms. The boy lay limp, his eyes closed, blood flowing steadily from his nose and mouth. "I canna reach Dr. McCoy; I canna get through; I must get the boy to sick bay--" Tears tracked the soot on his face. He staggered into the lift. Kirk and Spock caught him. Kirk steadied him while Spock took the child gently from his arms. "Sick bay!" Kirk yelled. The turbo-lift accelerated. ______________________________________________________ Obviously, Vonda McIntyre felt that the scene -- as filmed -- made little sense, Scotty bringing Peter to the Bridge, so she changed it in her novelization. She goes on to depict McCoy trying to save Peter's life, but the fact that he had breathed in leaking coolant before the ventilators could clear it made him a goner. _________________________________________________ McCoy cursed. The damned technicians claimed nothing else but this wretched, corrosive, teratogenic, gamma-emitting poison had a high enough specific heat to protect the engines against meltdown. Well, they also claimed its protection was fail-safe. . . . "It's coolant poisoning, Scotty," McCoy said. [etc.] "He stayed at his post," Scott said. "When the other trainees broke, he stayed." "If he hadn't, we'd be space by now," Kirk said. [ . . . ] "We're only alive because I knew something about these ships that he [Khan] didn't." Jim sighed. "And because one fourteen-year-old kid . . ." He stopped. _________________________________________________ My point in quoting Vonda's novelization -- despite her alteration of the scene, having Scotty remaining in Engineering holding Peter in his arms (etc.) -- is to point out that Peter Preston KNEW that he was giving his life by staying at his post, ensuring that the Enterprise didn't lose any possibility of retaining its auxiliary power. He knew that the coolant gas he was breathing in would kill him, that there was absolutely no hope of surviving his selfless act. And, really, it all came down to him doing what he did, because had he NOT done his duty then Khan would have massacred them all. As Kirk says (in the novelization), "If he hadn't, we'd be space by now." Peter's dying words were the question he poses to Admiral Kirk: "Is the word given, Admiral?" To which Kirk replies, smiling (yet anguished inside), "The word is given: Warp Speed!" . . . and then the lad dies. His duty as a cadet trainee working in the Engineering section of the starship Enterprise was to make it possible for its commander to give the order to accelerate to warp speed. I maintain that it makes perfect sense for the dying boy to have begged his grief-stricken uncle to bring him up to the Bridge for the only such glance that he would ever get to have, to prove that his own self-sacrifice had accomplished what he'd set out to do, to save the ship, to keep it operational against all the odds. Scotty knew that exposure to the engine coolant -- a poisonous gas -- was fatal. He knew that the boy had only minutes of life left in him as the poison destroyed his respiratory system. Sure, Scotty COULD have taken him to Sickbay in the turbolift, and gotten McCoy to begin treating his wounds right away . . . but he KNEW it would be all-for-nothing. I maintain that Scotty would have brought the unconscious lad to Sickbay had it been entirely up to him, but Peter had been CONSCIOUS when the ventilators had finally cleared Engineering of the poisonous coolant gas, and the awake and aware lad -- knowing he had breathed in a lethal amount of the poison -- MUST have begged him, made him swear an oath to the effect, that he would take him up to the Bridge for the only glimpse of it he would ever get to have. And Scotty, knowing the boy was moments from an inevitable death, didn't have the heart to deny his dying request. I think my interpretation of this event makes complete sense. It's too bad that Vonda McIntyre didn't think of this same possibility when she was writing her novelization, instead re-writing it so as to remove what otherwise has seemed to Trek fans to be an inexcusably stupid decision on Scotty's part. On the contrary, I think that Peter MADE him take him up there, made him swear to God (or to the Great Bird of the Galaxy) to grant him his dying wish. It makes sense that the dying Peter Preston would wish to see the Bridge before he died, and that he would beg his uncle to help him to fulfill that dying wish. And it makes sense that Scotty would reluctantly agree to it, despite an urge to take him directly to Sickbay out of the impossible hope that McCoy might be able to be as much of a miracle worker in the healing arts as he himself was wont to do regarding Engineering. Peter, you say, was "dying but not dead" -- but when Spock was in the reactor room and Kirk wanted to rush in there to save him, Scotty says, "He's dead already" . . . even though Spock was still alive. He was as good as dead. Lethal exposure to radiation. They all knew it. Even if Kirk could have gotten Spock out of that reactor room right away -- perhaps by intership beaming via the Transporter, from Engineering to Sickbay -- it wouldn't have saved his friend from death. "He's dead already!"

[@eugenecho8255]

Its a retcon NOW, but since Strange New Worlds if is set on the same timeline (not the Kelvin one) then Scotty should have taken Peter Preston directly to the transporter room and had him stored in the buffer indefinitely, along with all other critically injured crew, since the ability to do that is clearly available for M'Benga to use for his daughter. Scotty himself uses this in the Relics episode of Next Generation, but that's 80 some years down the line, while Strange New Worlds is set BEFORE Wrath of Khan.

[@patricktilton5377]

@@eugenecho8255 You're assuming that the Enterprise was in a condition where they had plenty of power to apply to the problem, with a transporter system that could be wholly relied upon for the task you suggest. As it is, Peter Preston's actions guaranteed that the Enterprise would not lose its Auxiliary Power, but their Primary Power was out due to Khan's crippling attack. I don't think that Scotty could have mustered the power necessary to do this Transporter buffer trick, even if he had had the knowledge of how to accomplish it at the time (i.e. years before the incident in "RELICS"). Maybe a cryo-storage facility in Sickbay, for severely critical patients, would seem possible, but based on the description of Preston's rapidly-failing lifesigns described in the novelization, even that seems nigh hopeless.

[@PensacolaOboist]

In the novelization of TWOK (Vonda McIntyre), which was probably based on an earlier copy of the script, Chekov DOES try to contact Reliant. He's panicked and yelling, "Beam us up! Beam us up!" and Beach and Kyle get a garbled version of it on the bridge. Beach urgently orders the transporter to lock on but then the signal fades and the lock is lost. So, originally, Chekov was actually less stupid.

[@wanderinghistorian]

My dad always yelled at Kirk for not raising the shields when Spock reports that Reliant's coils are normal. I always assumed the Genesis Wave hit Regula 1 and that became the Genesis Planet.

[@draconis3606]

I did the same... "Shield! Shields! SHIIIEEELDS!" 😉

[@nitehawk86]

@@draconis3606 Why Sulu is a better Captain than Kirk. He went right for the shields when Praxis blew up. :P

[@allthingsnerd.4484]

@@nitehawk86 well, he was there when Kirk made that mistake, so he learned from it. Also; there’s no real mistaking the intention of a massive blast wave.😆

[@draconis3606]

@@nitehawk86 Did you see the episode "Flashback" from Star Trek Voyager? If not... DO IT! 😀

[@BeeWhistler]

Yeah, I’m picturing Picard in a similar spot and he would have had shields up at that, no question. Pretty sure TOS Kirk would have, too.

[@kirkhonore]

Writing a action packed film in two weeks and then enduring all the changes during the production and then changes made during the editing process and it's a wonder the ST:WoK is mostly so damn good. Credit to the cast and crew for pulling that off.

[@hosswindu166]

Extra kudos to James Horner, who composed the musical score in under 5 weeks.

[@robertmaxwell6065]

I still believe that it is the BEST SciFi movie of ALL Times.

[@seanmurphy7011]

You just literally described the process of film making. That's how it works.

[@PAGoTribe1963]

The fact that these are the few glitches to the movie shows how good the writing was.

[@jv-lk7bc]

@@robertmaxwell6065 not even the best Trek movie. Undiscovered Country is an order of magnitude better and also more true to Trek ideals. First Contact and Voyage Home were also better. The original TOS ep was also better written than the movie sequel. The TOS ep is part of what makes us think its a good movie - all that back story. but it wasn't in the movie, it was in the ep.

[@347Jimmy]

I always thought that Kahn and his crew flying the Reliant (without blowing it up) was a pretty good demonstration of their collective intelligence

[@robertveith6383]

* *Khan*

[@davidford3115]

Yeah, the narrator doesn't seem to realize that anger and rage can make a smart man stupid. In fact, Kirk plays exactly on that trope by laughing at Khan's superior intellect. Even Khan's deputy calls this out.

[@jameserickson6587]

Could have been smarter and asked captain Tyrell any and all he knows about the computer systems and anything else that may be very needed to be known of , like the prefix code thing.

[@347Jimmy]

@@jameserickson6587 how many days would that have taken? Saavik was most of the way through Starfleet training and hadn't gotten to that particular piece of information yet

[@DamonBellPhotography]

Guarantee if I suddenly found myself trying to operate a starship we'd all be dead quickly thereafter.

[@mm-gl7sz]

If anyone read the novelization, the sandstorm interfered with the transporters to the extent that if they were inside a structure they couldn't be beamed up. They had to go outside

[@christopherheckman7957]

They still "froze", though.

[@stuartwelch6432]

@@christopherheckman7957 Panic can do this to even well trained people. But then again, that's what the training is meant to overcome.

[@christopherheckman5392]

@@stuartwelch6432 And there really wasn't anywhere to go.

[@MaxAbramson3]

Obviously, Khan would've built a jamming system (communicators and transporter) and activated both once they detected an inbound ship.

[@jamiekarpency2576]

When the Enterprise first entered orbit near the Regula station, Kirk asked Spock for a scan and Spock told him that sensors and scanners are still inoperative. That's why they didn't know about what was on the station, the cave, or Reliant's position.

[@Thurgosh_OG]

This one was so obvious but Trekculture's writers missed it?

[@sebclot9478]

@@Thurgosh_OG Yep. They definitely missed that one.

[@michaelclark737]

How do you beam into a location with no scanners or sensors to be able to judge the exact X-Y-Z coordinates? To do it blind would have meant a simple guess, which could have put them in a floor or a wall or who knows what. If the damage was really that extensive, this should have been a shuttlecraft ride.

[@BedsitBob]

@@michaelclark737 "To do it blind would have meant a simple guess" But remember that Kirk trusts Spock's guesses, more than he trusts most other people's facts. 😁

[@jeffhreid]

@@michaelclark737 it’s likely that transport to standard locations would be handled by a beacon handshake so that it didn’t have to be calculated each time

[@Holmes846]

I feel that Kirk didn't rush to Carol's location right away because they were on a training cruise. He notified Starfleet command and continued on the original mission statement that was the purpose of the voyage. It's only when he stops ignoring his instincts in the next scene and goes to investigate himself.

[@amead78]

I agree. His primary purpose was overseeing the training cruise, the Enterprise wasn’t on actually duty (as Spock noted). Kirk followed regulations and notified Starfleet right away. It was only after Starfleet told them to investigate did the Enterprise go on actual duty.

[@EdgeO419]

I think the biggest hole in all of the movie is the fact that Starfleet sent one ship to guard such a potentially destructive weapon, and then DO IT AGAIN in the sequel.

[@luvmenow33]

@@EdgeO419 as usual the enterprise was the only ship in the entire quadrant. Lol

[@QuintusAntonious]

I honestly think it was realistic. He followed protocol, then took a walk to compose his thoughts, then talked to one of his oldest friends before finally making the very large decision to go off mission and intervene. His decision had big consequences for his family and his crew, so I don't see it as a plot hole that he carefully considered whether he should charge in.

[@AzureWolf3]

Very good point. Deciding to take a ship with a handful of experienced officers and a bulk of cadets on a training cruise into a potentially hostile situation is never an easy decision.

[@ColSandersLives]

Kirk meeting Spock before heading to the bridge made perfect sense... Spock was the commanding officer. Kirk was about to take the ship (yet again) from someone else. He did his friend a solid, consulting him in private and then - being Kirk and doing Kirk things. The scene is necessary and poignant.

[@SBatts-rd9kg]

Your analysis seems logical. Kirk explained what the problem was to Captain Spock and didn't bring up taking command from him. He needed proper grounds to do it, which Spock explained existed.

[@sebclot9478]

Agreed, but the warp 5 point is perfectly valid.

[@ntvypr4820]

So true! And I'll have a 2-piece white, extra crispy, Col.🐔

[@klopferator]

I disagree. It was basically a distress call, he should have ordered to set course immediately and call Spock to the bridge.

[@sebclot9478]

@@klopferator It wasn't quite a distress call. And remember, the ship was on a training mission. They weren't fully operational.

[@joshuariddensdale2126]

The scene establishing Peter Preston as being Scotty's nephew was omitted from the theatrical release, but reinstated for the Director's Cut DVD, as were several other scenes like an extended version of the scene where Kirk explains the Genesis Project.

[@CoyoteFallsForge]

Surprising (and disappointing) that she's unaware of this. It's been written about since 1982, and as you said, it was added back in for the Director's Cut (I'm pretty sure it was restored to the version shown on broadcast TV, also). It's also in the novelization in an expanded form.

[@koriw1701]

Perhaps it's one of the additional four of the "14 Dumbest Things" article.

[@Mitharan23]

That still doesn't explain why you don't go straight to sick bay. He isn't dead in that scene since we see him die in sick bay. So maybe instead of going to the bridge he could have saved his nephew's life.

[@kevinscott3781]

He was in shock and felt helpless. Maybe he thought McCoy was on the bridge.

[@Mitharan23]

@@kevinscott3781 Still dumb and the deleted scene doesn't change why it's on the list.

[@mosmotorcyclejourney9067]

The dead engineer went to the bridge for a reason. I never understood until I watched the directors cut version. It's apparently Scottys sisters kid. That's why he took the death so hard.

[@PAGoTribe1963]

IIRC, it was also explained when Kirk first meets him.

[@starsiegeplayer]

@@PAGoTribe1963 they cut that out of the final release.

[@johnwalker3279]

In the novel, the dying engineer was also Saavik’s pupil. That’s why there was a quick shot of Saavik being shocked. The novel also had Saavik, near the end of the story, crying over her mentor and her pupil’s bodies in Sick Bay. BTW, she cried because she was supposed to be half-Vulcan and half-Romulan, but this was changed for the movie. This was a good YT clip. Thanks!

[@theiran]

It was covered in the star trek comics about him being Scotty's nephew.

[@christopherheckman7957]

@@theiran And in the novelization.

[@GonzGunner]

When the Enterprise first approached the Reliant, Saavik dutifully informed Kirk; "On the approach of a vessel when communications have not been established......" with Spock then cutting her off about how Kirk was "well aware of Regulations", that meant YOU RAISE THE SHIELDS. PERIOD. That would have been my #1 "dumbest thing" to point out. But that's just me. This is a great video and yes, "The Wrath Of Khan" is also my favorite Star Trek movie. It brought back the camaraderie, humor, and dramatic impact of the Original Series, the lack of which made "The Motion Picture" sterile and rather bland. But no matter what movie was made based on the Original Series, the Enterprise itself was the star. I remember the audience when I first saw "The Wrath Of Khan", they reacted viscerally when the ship was defenseless and being cut up by phaser fire from the Reliant, another Starfleet ship, to boot. And in "The Search For Spock", when Kirk ordered the destruction of the Enterprise, when it blew up, again, the audience reacted emotionally, many were crying.

[@zaubermaus8190]

what about the fact that khan never met chekov before? "Space Seed" happened in the first season of TOS while chekov only joined the crew in season 2. walter koenig even realized this when they were filming star trek 2, but kept silent in fear of being replaced or his role being toned down in the movie.

[@doktor_ghul]

Yeah, it was supposed to be Sulu on Regula...why they changed it to Chekov, I don't remember. I recall that Ricardo Montalban made up a story about Khan needing to use the bathroom and Chekov, newly assigned, was in there with bad diarrhea. Khan just pulled the dunny door open and threw Chekov out, roaring, " YOU! I will never forget that face!!".

[@paulbrown6464]

My explanation is that Chekov was on the Enterprise during season 1 and was promoted to the Bridge betwen seasons 1 and 2

[@GarretGrayCamera]

There’s a great book about Khan on Ceti Alpha 5 that explains that. To Reign In Hell. It’s something about how Chekhov was one of the crew that helped relocate Khan to the planet. He actually says something to the effect, Chekhov, I’ll always remember your help. It’s worth the read for sure if you’re a big fan.

[@zaubermaus8190]

@@GarretGrayCamera yeah, but this is basically a retcon after they realized they fcked up.

[@GarretGrayCamera]

@@zaubermaus8190 Yep, it’s a good read though.

[@grahamcann1761]

Honorable mention: Ricardo Montalban's revenge speech: "He tasks me. he tasks me. Round the moons of Snibya, I chuckle at thee. Beyond the Corpian clouds, I chuckle more at thee. Revenge is a dish best served with pinto beans and muffins. Kirk old friend, I..." (Ricardo Montalban, in "Freakazoid" S1•E6) As always thank you so very much for the videos.

[@emsleywyatt3400]

"I fart in your general direction."

[@grahamcann1761]

Perhaps I should add that (in the 80s) some friends and I did a college student film, and I did my own version of this revenge speech (no where near as good as RM). Of that group one went on to work at ILM as an artist, a couple worked at Marvel comics for a time, one is a successful Fantasy author, and one became a Starfighter (The Last...). (Me... I became an accountant )

[@keiranfallon9898]

In retrospect, Khan shouldn't have had such an easy time of understanding the Reliant's controls, even if she is a sister ship to Enterprise as the Enterprise (and possibly other Starfleet vessels of that type) under went a MASSIVE refit and upgrade at the time of V'GER. The technical schematics Khan had memorized 14 -20 years earlier were outdated.

[@syntrilliumc.e.p.9326]

One reason why he also all of a sudden panicked: "Where's the override, where's the override!?" The design he had knowledge about when it comes to the consoles had been completely changed. And well, Decker also explained to Kirk in TMP, that he did not even know 1/10 of the Enterprise now due to the massive upgrades the ship had gone thrue.

[@andreabindolini7452]

Still, he was able to hit the Enterprise in the vital spots, probably thanks to those technical schematics he memorized. Sadly, the movie doesn't make clear this passage.

[@athrunzala6919]

@@andreabindolini7452 Remember, 'the more they overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stuff up the drain'😄

[@Zurround]

Too often in science fiction characters from the distant past too quickly adjust to more modern science and technology. Like someone from the 20th century being able AT ALL to operate a star ship. In the 1979 tv show BUCK ROGERS the main character was a master of 25th century space ships almost immediately. Even if he was the best astronaut in the world for the late 20th century it would be like the best world war 1 pilot instantly having a full understanding of how to fly an F35 or a master level computer programmer for when the very first (filled a whole building and could do basic math) computers were made in the early 1940s almost immediately being able to understand and operate the most advanced computer of 2023 (maybe a quantum computer).

[@cwill1098]

Khan had time to look at Reliant's tech manuals at least getting rudimentary knowledge of ship functions. Khan just didn't have time to become fully knowledgeable.

[@jimmyjames2755]

To me, the dumbest thing in Wrath of Khan is that Reliant entered the Ceti Alpha system, a place they've obviously been before, and fails to notice an entire planet is missing.

[@daveofyorkshire301]

How do you know they've been there before?

[@daveofyorkshire301]

Since Kirk didn't tell them he was there, because he was part way through a 5 year mission in deep space, unless he was napping planets - why would they know?

[@mastersith3523]

@@daveofyorkshire301A key part of a 5 year mission is reporting discoveries to Starfleet. Plus there’s logs. Starfleet should’ve known how many planets were in the system and where Khan was regardless of the changes in orbits.

[@daveofyorkshire301]

@@mastersith3523 You want to get technical, everywhere they went they found people already there. But if you're exploring you're rarely in contact with home. If you're beyond what's known it implies you're beyond contact, otherwise just signal them first... So where do you get reporting back was that easy? *To go where no man has been before* implies a certain level of isolation and lack of contact.

[@sandal_thong8631]

If they were headed to Ceti-Alpha IV and it had exploded with V taking its place, then they still would have counted 1, 2, 3, 4. But how do you count planets 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and not notice there's only 5?

[@JeffSmith-oc1fr]

LOL, #9 - I have always envisioned a scene where McCoy pulls the blanket over the dead nephew and then turns to Scotty and says, "Y'know, Scotty if you'd brought him here first, I probably could have saved him."

[@ronschlorff7089]

Naw, better would be: "He's dead Scotty", and that's it! Or "Damn it Scotty, I'm not a magician, I'm just a county doctor!! ;D LOL

[@patrickmcquillan6336]

No that would diminish the sacrifice Scotty's nephew made. He did something to save the ship that was certain death.

[@victorling9676]

For #3, I assumed that the Enterprise focused on repairing sensors first while the Reliant focused on repairing engines and weapons. Look how quickly the Reliant started catching up to the Enterprise right before entering the Mutura Nebula. Kirk's experience probably taught him that there's more of an advantage in repairing sensors first to see where your enemy is when your enemy can't see where you are.

[@jameserickson6587]

Makes total sense to me , if you can't make a target lock on with your sensors your Phasers are of 0 value at that point , meaning that if I have my sensors working properly I can avoid getting hit by a Phaser lock hopefully

[@Leoluvesadmira]

In a fight if you have no weapons you can not win also Kirk had a whole crew of Kahn had 14 to crew a Miranda class vessel

[@catspants]

in the book, they were piggybacking off the space station's sensors. this was not explained in the movie.

[@sinswhisper9588]

fun fact about chekov's accent ... walter koenig when interveiwed about the character pointed out frequently that one of the things he hated about the character was that he was instructed to play up the accent to those campy levels

[@SSGLGamesVlogs]

Oh oh! The Fun Fact People!

[@beepboop204]

Scotty and Chekov had their accents criticized, but both based their speech patterns off real people they met. interesting stuff.

[@BlokeOnAMotorbike]

another fun fact about Chekov's accent: Anton Yelchin didn't have to camp it up. He was born in Soviet Russia.

[@BlokeOnAMotorbike]

@@beepboop204 the only stereotypical Scottish Scotsman who lives in Los Angeles (or very near to LA) that I know of is Scott Manley. Oh, Hale & Pace reference. :)

[@BeeWhistler]

@@beepboop204Yeah, there are over the top bad accents but I’ve been surprised many times over the years when I thought an accent was too outrageous to be real… and it 100% was. Never with anyone I met in person, so I never embarrassed myself about it. Just that it seems like the most exaggerated accents are either the fakest or the realest and you have to be familiar with each kind to know which it is.

[@roguerifter9724]

The Wrath of Khan. I literally saw this in a theater before I saw my first house because a local theater was re-showing it just before the Search for Spock came out and my parents stopped to see it on the way home from the hospital. A couple of things 10: They specifically mention in the movie that a ship's crew can change the prefix code. So I'm pretty sure the crews of both Enterprise and Reliant changed their ship's codes ASAP once the initial battle was over. And Khan was so blinded by rage, and so short handed he probably just didn't bother with looking up the code for his first pass. 1: What's funny is there's an alternate universe Star Trek short story where this comes up. Its eventually discovered that the Genesis device works fine if its deployed on a moon or planet instead of being set off in a ship floating in a cloud of gas. The problems that destroyed the canon Genesis planet don't occur because when the device is set off on a planet the ratio of protomatter to regular matter is too low to trigger a cataclysm.

[@opiejaye]

That alternate story makes sense. It always bugged me how David in Star Trek III said that Genesis was a failure because of the planet being so unstable... it wasn't tested properly!

[@ronbeck201]

That's what I thought, the planet formed so fast that the gravity started to implode the planet from the inside as soon as it got to it's full size.

[@f.r.wilson7603]

After the movie, my Trek friends and I came to the same conclusion. And after ST3 it pretty much confirmed it. Explaining David's statement as "He's nowhere as brilliant as his mother, and was working off very initial data, although the it should have been blatantly obvious from the beginning" Genesis works. When used properly. There is a serious storyline in there.

[@jeremiahwilliams4218]

Point 10: In all fairness, they probably were not aware of how complex security really needed to be back in the early 80's. Looking at this film with 2020 lenses is rather unfair in this regard. It was unthought of by the general public at the time that they needed high encryption passwords. Also, the fact that the prefix code was not changed by Kahn shows the character's arrogance, he is still human and has a great ego. Additionally, he is highly intelligent, he knows there needs to be an override engaged to stop the Enterprise takeover. Finally, once reminded of the prefix code, he can assume Kirk changed the code and even with 27000 possible combinations, it is impractical to go flipping switches at random hoping to catch Kirk by surprise.

[@robertmaxwell6065]

Spock reminds Kirk: "He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking." Perhaps the Prefix Code was not part of the original Constitution class design. That may have been added as a security measure during the Refit.

[@hcgreier6037]

Good point. Arguing on the password strength in 1982 from a 2020s standpoint is just ridiculous. A where do the 27216 possibilities come from?

[@SnipE_mS]

Right? Can’t believe they didn’t use MFA at least!

[@kjk7611]

Military, gov't & big corporate security was probably known to the writers, producers, directors, etc. They worked for 1. Not to mention the Trekkie geeks they corresponded with. They probably knew this but kept it simple for the audience & it worked better in the script.

[@seannorton]

​@@kjk7611I don't know. Even then I wondered how they got it so fast, even with Kirks Admiralty security codes. You probably wouldn't keep that kind of information in every starships computers, and with computer's that damaged, they probably weren't in contact with Starfleet command computers. This is still my favorite Star Trek movie though.

[@thatjpwing]

I've always wondered how they had a conversation while being transported. Their bodies were disassembled. The parts required to make sound were still being assembled mid conversation. But TWoK is my favorite of all the movies and the transporter effect (used only in this movie) is my second favorite transporter effect (behind the one used only on Voyager).

[@stuartwelch6432]

More like being transported mid word.

[@kjk7611]

The VOYAGER transporter effect?

[@betaneptune]

You've hit on one of the stupidest stupidities of all time. Talking while materializing. The whole point of materializing taking a few seconds is that until it's done, you're not totally there yet! And if you're not there, you can't be speaking! So they take something that is almost certainly not possible ever, and make it beyond nonsensical for no good reason whatsoever. Biggest movie sin of all time.

[@alexmuenster2102]

>>The parts required to make sound were still being assembled mid conversation.

[@betaneptune]

@@alexmuenster2102 Doesn't make it any better. Apparently the stupidity started with that TV episode. And it conflicts with the final beam up in "Bread and Circuses," where the bullets apparently had no effect, even though they weren't fully "dematerialized" yet. Double bad!

[@dasquarepeg4400]

In the novel of Star Trek II, it is explained that the Enterprise is, indeed, pulling tactical information from Regula One. I don't recall whether it mentions about Reliant but, as Reliant claims to have all systems restored by this point (again, in the novel at least), it is likely that Khan is using the Reliant tactical sensors and not the Regula One sensor array.

[@SiegfriedGlina]

Yep. Came here to make the same point.

[@nooneinparticular1491]

My apologies to you; I wrote that in a post before reading yours. No plagiarism was intended, but plagiarism happened anyway :)

[@MrMyu]

I could swear that the novelization of TWoK explicitly mentioned that Regula 1's sensors were working perfectly and Enterprise was getting telemetry.

[@ijmad]

The novelisations often add detail to fix inconsistencies in the teleplay

[@AurizenDarkstar]

@@ijmad The novelization of TWOK also points out that there were 2 Deltan scientists in Regula 1, and that Khan tried to use the eels on one of them, but they ended up committing some sort of 'mental suicide' rather than be controlled. At least I remember something close to that (as it's been about a decade since I read the novelization).

[@Asculaepius]

@@ijmad The novelizations were almost always written by Vonda Mcintyre and she said in an interview she had to write off of script drafts because she wasn't given a copy of the final movie print in time to write the novelizations. So, it's more likely that the teleplay had details that were either omitted during filming or edited out post-production. There's a great piece in ST VI where Kirk is with Carol Marcus and attacked by Klingons just prior to Kirk being recalled to Earth to go get Gorkon, which helps explain why he's so enraged at the Klingons. The novel version of "let them die!" makes a lot more sense and fits with where Kirk is mentally in the moment. I believe that was scrapped from shooting and ultimately the story for a version of Kirk "rounding up" his crew where he was supposed to go get them from various places, and that was also cut and replaced with Scotty saying "that suits me, I just bought a boat" and Uhura's "I'm supposed to be chairing a seminar at the academy." But, as written in the novel, it would have made a great piece of cinema. I believe the same thing happens here, and Meyer believed that nobody would be picking apart his movie 40 years later (he apparently learned *nothing* about Trekkies when he was making a movie for them about an episode from 15 years prior).

[@FekLeyrTarg]

​@@AsculaepiusRegarding TUC: Many things from the script, especially in the early parts, couldn't be filmed due to budget constrains. There is even was a story-boarded scene of the recovered HMS Bounty being taken apart.

[@Michael-bk5nz]

The fact that Kirk is blase about the danger from the Reliant is precisely the point this was the point of the whole discussion about the Kobayashi Maru, Kirk was not worried because he thought he was bulletproof

[@luvmenow33]

And don't forget at the end of the battle when Sulu exclaims you did it sir he immediately snaps back " I did nothing!" "Except get caught with my britches down!" " I must be going senile!" He knew he FKD up and got lucky.

[@MultiRanman]

I think you’re on to something. There were two character points that Kirk had to deal with: his age, more specifically, his perspective about his age and what he has lost to show for it; and his cavalier attitude about cheating death due to his sometimes rash actions.

[@Michael-bk5nz]

@@luvmenow33 And this scene is particularly meaningful given the fact that in TOS KIrk is frequently just as irresponsible and reckless, but it always paid off, until this time.

[@zqxzqxzqx1]

In a very real sense, Kirk's arrogant taunting of Khan led to Spock's death. In retrospect, I find it painfully ironic at the end of "Space Seed," when Spock says, "It would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in 100 years and learn what crop had sprung from the seed you planted today." You don't want to know, Spock...You don't want to know...

[@alm2187]

We're into fictional character psychology, here, which is among the most inexact of fan theory sciences. You think Kirk's inflated self-confidence outweighs the high stakes we're told about? No one can prove anything to the contrary. You think that overconfidence isn't tempered by all that precedent for Kirk putting safety first? No one can prove anything to the contrary.

[@odyshopody9387]

Fun to watch, some interesting plot points I didn't think of. The number 3 plot hole about the Enterprising not knowing where Reliant was when they first showed up but later being able to track them, could have been because they had Reliant's code, and Reliant still didn't have the Enterprises!

[@PrevailPress]

Hey, if my sensors were out, the first thing I'd do is send out a probe. We're getting the view from the probe.

[@laurentecrivain6944]

Or it's because they tapped into the space station's own sensors, which is in the novel. Spock likely changed the Enterrpise's own prefix code by then.

[@Adam-vb7xl]

Don’t know if this has been pointed out yet, Chekov was not in the original episode “Space seed” with Khan’s first appearance, but in the Wrath of Khan he says about Chekov “I never forget a face”.

[@stuartwelch6432]

OOPS... Not too many people knew that (I didn't) So, who on the bridge did he replace?

[@kjk7611]

This is pointed-out in EVERYTHING WRONG WITH.

[@trhansen3244]

This has been pointed out since 1982. Credit is given to Gene Siskel, a notorious Star Wars fan.

[@kjk7611]

@@trhansen3244 Didn't know the late Siskel was a Trekkie.

[@Mr.Glidehook]

He was aboard. He just wasn't seen in the episode, but Khan had access to a lot of material in the computer. He knew the ship, the crew, and they knew him. Even at Starfleet, they had records on him. That's how they identified him in the episode.

[@UnclePhil2k]

The novelization actually explains away many of these plot points.

[@marcbensen8963]

Plot armor

[@linganvairavamoorthy7808]

Definitely agree, it explains Khan not using Ceti Eels as he lost the plot when they didn't give him what he wanted (against Joachim's advice) and also the use of Regular 1 sensors.

[@QBCPerdition]

Nebulae generally form when a star goes nova, but this often happens to leave a star behind. In fact, if the nebula was a star birthing one, which would explain why it was all lit up and pretty, then there may have been a number of stars and proto-planets hanging around inside or nearby. The Genesis wave blew the nebula up, but also hit a planet that was nearby and terraformed it. I don't have any problem with this rationale. As for the Ceti eel leaving Checkov as soon as the other one dies, there are two possible reasons, and both may be true together. If the eels manipulate brain waves, they may be telepathically linked to each other, meaning the one dying severely affected the other. Also, Checkov is striving against its influence, trying not to kill Kirk, and maybe even trying to stop Terrell from killing Kirk. The shock of his captain killing himself may have been just the push he needed to succeed. Again, both if these ideas work well together; Checkov fighting against it and it sensing the death of its sibling. As for Warp 5 versus 7, you can't compare TWOK's Enterprise to TMP's. There was a whole 'nother 5 year mission in between, I believe, and if not, there was certainly a bit of time. The ship was on the verge of being moth-balled, but was given a new lease on life as a cadet trainer. I wouldn't assume it can still work at peak efficiency, especially when most of the crew are cadets. I agree that Khan doesn't really show off his intellect, but I kind of assume he's so gar gone by this point that he doesn't really have his intellect any more, and even if he does, he's still a man out of time, broken by the death of his wife and loss of his home, obsessed with destroying Kirk. Everyone follows him due to his reputation, without truly seeing that the reputation is no longer accurate. Happens all the time.

[@Asculaepius]

Star Trek has always been bad at math, but I agree with the video that this is pretty egregious. Even if you take warp one as the speed of light, which has commonly been accepted, by definition supraluminal velocity is implied with warp. Impulse cannot approach warp speed as you need a warp envelope, so no matter what definition you choose to use, without warp drive it should have taken them years to reach Regula. Take 300,000 x 60 x 60 x 12 and you get 12.96 billion kilometers the Enterprise would have covered at the speed of light in twelve hours. Now I'm assuming warp 5 is more than 5 times faster, but for arguments sake we'll just say it's 5x the speed of light, which would make it almost 65 billion kilometers (40.39 billion miles) to get to Regula from where Reliant intercepts Enterprise. That would mean the Enterprise would have to be going a lot faster than the impulse limping it was doing to get from Regula to the Mutara Nebula at the end of the movie, *after* they had performed repairs to "partial main power." So it isn't really about comparing warp five versus seven - it's about comparing warp versus impulse speeds (assuming the ship even had impulse power, which wasn't entirely clear after the first battle).

[@whiplashfatigue1430]

And it’s clear that the cadets may not have taken “Warp Drive 101” yet. Kirk actually calls down to Scotty to tell him the need to go to warpspeed, and Scotty’s reply is …. tentative, like he’s wondering how he’s going to accomplish that with this group. Oh, and warp factor is the CUBE of lightspeed. Warp 1 is 1x1x1c, Warp 2 is 2x2x2c (8 times the speed of light), etc.

[@Asculaepius]

@@whiplashfatigue1430 I am aware that the prevailing theory of warp factors is that they are 2^x power, but it was never canonized. Regardless, when Kirk says "can your engines handle a little training cruise" Scott says, "just give the word." When he calls down and says, "we'll be going to warp speed," he says "aye sir." As was clearly demonstrated in TMP, and numerous TOS episodes, Scotty has ZERO problems telling Kirk when warp is going to be a problem. The cadets were more than capable of operating a warp drive. They were in no way prepared for battle.

[@silkwesir1444]

Yes, the star is the one from the nebula. You can even see it in an earlier scene, when Reliant uses it for tactical advantage.

[@oahuhawaii2141]

@Whiplash Fatigue: Warp Factor refers to the %coefficient% to the speed of light, c, to represent speed of travel. Your formula means Warp Factor n gives a speed of (n^3)*c . Asculaepius uses (2^n)*c . Comparing the formulas, I see that, for all n, (n^3)*c = (2^n)*c is true only for n1 and n2, where 0 < n1 < n2 . For n in (n1, n2), (n^3)*c > (2^n)*c . For n outside [n1, n2], (n^3)*c < (2^n)*c . For %mental fatigue%, I solved for the 2 roots: (n^3)*c = (2^n)*c 3*log(n) = n*log(2) log(n)/n = log(2)/3 -log(1/n)/n = log(2)/3 n = 1/W(-log(2)/3) ≈ 1.3734671196961651667, 9.9395351414269045380 . They correspond to speeds of about 2.59092476*c and 981.970001*c, respectively.

[@zombieshoot4318]

I always figured the code was more complicated and Spock was just entering the last part of the code. Plus I think Spock would be smart enough to change the codes on Enterprise.

[@matth.2916]

It's also possible it's a one-shot deal. While having a 4-digit code to take over a starship is insane if you can just brute-force it, if you get one guess and then it locks itself out for hours or days, then that's sufficient.

[@pwnmeisterage]

I think part of the code is memorized by the officers. Not stored anywhere in the computers. The contents of their computers get scanned by strange aliens every few episodes. And sometimes things go badly, there is conflict or deception or escape ... which would be entirely irrelevant if the aliens could just activate the control codes.

[@cookiemonsterdayz]

Khan might have been a smart guy, but he was inexperienced as a starship captain. He didn't know anything beyond the basic functions and had probably no clue about starship procedures or operations. That's why he was defeated in the end.

[@szr8]

2:38 The Enterprise took a pretty substantial pounding, so it may be possible that the level with Sick Bay was the destination but ended up going somewhere else. Strange things can happen when there's power fluctuations and surges are happening.

[@gillandro2]

Remember it was established in a different cut or a deleted scene that preston was scotty's nephew so he brought him to the bridge because he was distraught... and out of universe it made for a shocking moment and probably showed that there were true stakes

[@ethankoernke1329]

The point with Scotty taking his Nephew to the Bridge was to get him to McCoy ASAP as he promised his brother he would take good care of the boy while out exploring the universe. Mind you, we only learn the cadet is Scott's Nephew in a cut scene when Kirk first boards the Enterprise and is introduced to the crew.

[@darryls7931]

Not to nit pick, but I believe Scotty said Preston was his sister's youngest, not his brother's.

[@Asculaepius]

It's his sister's youngest, "crazy to get to space." And you take people to sickbay (where there are other doctors and equipment to treat people) and not the bridge. I actually completely agree with this video that it's a stupid thing to do. But, I also never even gave it a moment's thought before, which speaks to the excellent pacing of the movie.

[@billwhelan466]

@@Asculaepius its there to represent the horror Khan has inflicted on the ship

[@ronrhea2001]

Why would anyone on a ship take their badly wounded crewmate to the bridge? Ever? It is totally ridiculous.

[@robertmaxwell6065]

@@darryls7931 I was just about to make that comment.

[@onixfieroandscalemodelworks]

This is my favorite movie of all time. I’ve seen it more times than I can count. Each and every time I over look some of the let’s say inconsistencies in the script. It never fails to be an enjoyable film with pacing that is absolutely perfect over its entire run time.

[@athrunzala6919]

It's an excellent Christmas movie too

[@sigma80]

I saw it in the theater about five times. Totally different experience on a huge screen, with the surround sound and everything. After the first movie, I wasn't expecting much too. So maybe that made it more impactful. This movie is as great as much as the first one sucks.

[@athrunzala6919]

@@sigma80 You know the old joke right? 'We don't speak of the odd numbered movies' 😂

[@sigma80]

@@athrunzala6919 I liked three, "The Search for Spock"". That was very cheesy though, it wasn't a Cinema Tour De Force like "The Wrath of Khan" was. One made my dog, who ate cat turds out of the litter box (Before clumping litter, he would of had a colon blockage with that ), barf when he saw it. I wanna know who approved that script, let alone the movie.

[@robertmaxwell6065]

@@athrunzala6919 Yes, just like Die Hard

[@DrFeelGoodHelpDesk]

So....30 seconds of research tells you that the title change from Revenge to Wrath was down to the (at the time) working title for the third Star Wars film "Revenge of the Jedi" and they didn't want the films to be mixed up. Not so much a "couldn't make their mind up" and more a "didn't want to to confuse filmgoers"

[@Asculaepius]

It's covered in several researched books including one by Nicholas Meyer on why he didn't get his preferred title until Star Trek VI. It takes a little bit more than 30 seconds, but not much.

[@Progger11]

Kahn is intellectually strong, not omniscient. He's a man from the 1990s who has only ever been on one other 23rd Century vessel in his life. He can only work with what information he's privy to. The fact that he and his remaining crew were even able to get the Reliant off the ground at all is already pretty impressive considering this.

[@mentor397]

The novelization said that they used Regulas sensors and slaved them to the Enterprise computers, if I remember correctly. Sensors had been partially repaired on the Enterprise by that point as well, I think.

[@pondhop]

A very strange thing to me is that ships sensors are basically plot devices that do whatever the writers need. When the enterprise arrives in the Cetus system they should have noticed that Ceti Alpha had some planetary muck-up and that there would be either a weird blown up planet in orbit or a asteroid field. Like even the navigator can't count planets to notice there is one less planet in the system? I just think it's weird that starfleet also buried any record of the exile there so this movie could happen.

[@nooneinparticular1491]

"...I just think it's weird that starfleet also buried any record of the exile there so this movie could happen..." Agreed. IIRC, there was a line of dialogue in the original script that said something along the lines of the Federation fearing that the Augments might gather followers had knowledge of their survival been made public.

[@plektosgaming]

This has ALWAYS been Trek, though. Sensors are the McGuffin of every story, movie and TV show. They are amazing when they need to be and useless when they need to be :)

[@pondhop]

@@plektosgaming Agreed. Funny thing is like "Magic" in Harry Potter, the more you think about it, the less technical it becomes. So for instance, in TNG, they have Worf say something like 'Long Range Sensors pick up a ship approaching, they are 10 light years away'. So... how did you bounce a signal off something 10 light years away and not have to wait 20 years to learn about it?

[@benholroyd5221]

Well if ceti alpha 6 was right where ceti alpha 5 should be they could assume that ceti alpha 6 was orbiting behind the sun. Logically they should know where the planets are expected to be before warping into the system, or else that would be quite dangerous, so you'd have unrealistically tight tolerances for all this to fit together.

[@laurentecrivain6944]

It's likely that Kirk and the others never told Starfleet of Khan's exile in the first place. Considering that Khan is a war criminal from centuries ago who attempted to hijack the Enterprise and kill her captain, If they knew, they would have gone down to Ceti Alpha V and arrested them, not allow them to live their lives in peace on an uninhabited planet.

[@AzureWolf3]

This is also one of my favorite Star Trek movies. I was a late teen when it came out and I saw it 17 times in the theater (lol). But despite my love of the movie, there were strange inconsistencies and you touched on them nicely. "I'm a doctor, not a XXXXXX!"....then act like one (heh)... how could he not whip out his medical tricorder and scan both Chekov and Tyrell the second they found them?!? Internal bleeding? Infections? Evil creatures in their bodies? That's what the medical tricorder is for! :) The director's cut helped clear up the Peter Preston on the bridge one a bit, seeing that it was Scotty's nephew, and maybe in Scotty's mind taking him directly to Kirk in his grief made some sense, but I agree it was just for dramatic effect. But I also agree that the biggest one was Kirk's inaction when the Reliant closed in, despite Saavik pointing out the regulation. As Khan said, "We are one big happy fleet!", but Kirk still should have raised the shields the second Spock told him they were lying. As for Khan's lack of superior intellect (loved how you did that part), I agree that his "Ahab like fixation on Kirk" basically put his superior intellect on the back burner. Of course, all these inconsistencies are what drove the plot along, so it's worth it in the end :) Great video, really enjoyed it.

[@nsnopper]

You saw it 17 times?! Did you ever consider giving it the Rocky Horror Picture Show treatment? You could have dressed up like Khan, mimicked the action on the screen, etc. That would have been a blast.

[@markmcauleymcauley9287]

As stated Preston is Scotty nephew his sister's son, I think most trek fans know this, I know it's not in the theatrical cut but it is in directors cut and it gives Scotty a few more emotional levels

[@Agent505]

"Khan's supergenious has the ship wired through the bridge with fourteen men and ten of them on the bridge" - never mind that in the next movie Scotty does the same with the Enterprise, controlling the ship by himself. Either it's not that hard, or Scotty's a super genius too.

[@davidford3115]

Mr. Scott is often called a "miracle worker", so you would be correct that Enterprise's chief engineer IS a super genius, but one from training and experience rather than genetics.

[@Agent505]

@@davidford3115 Agreed!!

[@surferdude4487]

Yes, Scotty is a super genius and one from the 23rd century.

[@davidbonk1672]

Scotty: "A chimpanzee and two trainees could run her."

[@hawkmoon419]

A great example of Khan's superior intellect: he remembered Chekov even though they had never met.

[@jasonrodgers9063]

Many have postulated that WAS aboard the Enterprise during "Space Seed", but he was a newbie underling rather than a member of the bridge crew. (Actually, it was just lazy writing, and not having a Trek fan checking script continuity!)

[@jimmcclane4171]

At the time of Kirk receiving the message from his ex, Spock was in command of the Enterprise. Admiral Kirk of course then went to Spock to decide what needed to be done on the ship full of Starfleet trainees. So of course he would not have rushed to the bridge to warp out.

[@SBatts-rd9kg]

Yep! and like in TMP he didn't know the personnel and needed Spock's input. Like I commented on earlier somewhere, Spock knew Kirk missed being in command and gladly relinquished it with "no ego to bruise."

[@davewolf8898]

To answer your point about "Kirks Unfair tactical advantage" When they arrive at Regula 1, Spock says scanner and sensors were inoperative. So they couldn't scan the area. While down on the station and inside the Genesis cave, they obviously repaired them.

[@plektosgaming]

They didn't - which is shown later by their fumbling in a nebula. What they did was plug into the station's array. Kahn realized this and moved out of range of the station.

[@laurentecrivain6944]

@@plektosgaming- Well, the scanner and sensors were inoperateive in the nebula regardless if they were functional in regular space.

[@duanejensen989]

One thing you missed. When they were pulling up Reliants code, Savik said she didn’t understand. Kirk said something about the need to know how things work on a starship. Since Savik was a recent graduate of the academy, wouldn’t it make sense that this little trick would’ve been taught to everyone in the academy?

[@RictusHolloweye]

More likely that the ability to override a Federation starship was only known to command personnel. Khan would not have read about it in the technical manuals and cadets would not have been told.

[@novaiscool1]

@@RictusHolloweye I'd say that given the level of information Kahn got in Space Seed that he probably got the code, but either didn't know its use or the Enterprise crew changed codes at some point since then. We know the codes can be changed since Spock says it's possible Reliant has changed them while looking them up.

[@bclapp2483]

My head canon was that it may not have existed during season 1 tos, remote shut down of a starship might have been added after the m5 took over enterprise, or invaders from another galaxy took over enterprise, ect

[@darthhauler9947]

@@bclapp2483 I always figured it was a protocol put in place after the M5 debacle. If Starfleet could have shut down Enterprise's shields and weapons, they could've saved so many lives. There was probably a think tank for years afterwards on "How do we stop one of our own ships if they go renegade?" and the command code was the product of it.

[@techinrl9869]

Like Akray said above, I always assumed something this dangerous would only be known by command personnel, if not only the Captain, such as the existence of Omega, the particle that destroys warp space in Voyager. Keep in mind that Spock was the actual Captain of the ship while Kirk only took over for the emergency. Both being Captains or former Captains would know about the code while no one else should have knowledge of such a thing, and certainly not a cadet or lieutenant junior grade.

[@Potrimpo]

10 - in 1982, having a wifi password was pretty prophetic. The combination is weak, and how it was done was also pretty quaint if not outdated. But an inexperienced Khan -- something Spock pointed out -- trying to find the override made perfect sense in the few seconds Enterprise needed to damage her. And Spock also speculated if Khan changed the combination -- wifi password. 7 - the only reason why it was "obvious" was because we've watched Khan hundreds of times. But first viewing, WE would believe Spock said 6 days not knowing he meant 6 hours, and many of us did. And like Saavik who knew Spock better than Khan, even she was fooled. Meaning if Khan listened to that same transmission again, he'd say, "Wait a minute." 5 - oh my god, where do I start? Jamming? They don't know Khan escaped Ceti Alpha 5, let alone commandeer the Reliant, had Chekov and Terrell under mind control, or knowing about Genesis. So it isn't obvious what the source of the jamming is. Even Kirk said, "Garbled communications." So no sign of immediate danger. Alerting Starfleet command as the Enterprise had a "boatload of children", as Kirk put it. So it would make sense to have a ship with a more experienced crew. But the Enterprise was the nearest ship. Warp 5 instead of warp 7? The Genesis simulation was made a year prior, so they could only assume they were at phase 2 which is an underground test. A LONG way away from the Genesis planet, let alone universal Armageddon, as Kirk would estimate. 4 - those things grow that can lead to madness and death. It is plot armour the eels chose that moment to stop Terrell from killing Kirk, but losing control like that makes sense how Terrell could kill the one tech, but not Kirk. Even though David acted foolishly causing Terrell to react, which Saavik stopped him as to why David survived. 3 - though Reliant not able to scan behind Regula is pretty convenient, it was said IN THE MOVIE the scanners were down. 2 - Why not ask Reliant? Last anyone checked, she was at Ceti Alpha "6". Kirk also went to yellow alert, indicating he was already taking a defensive posture, but not showing hostility. Kirk wasn't fooled as he had Spock check on Reliant about their chamber coil. He can't figure out, "taking away Genesis," as what he got there was an order before losing communication. Reliant mysteriously in the quadrant closing fast, and not knowing the source of the jamming. But it would be too much of a huge leap to say, "SOMEONE HIJACKED THE RELIANT, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO STEAL GENESIS EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WORKING PROTOTYPE!!!" If Kirk knew Reliant was assigned to Project Genesis, then it would be logical. 1 - as stated, Genesis reorganized matter of equal mass on the subatomic level, no where did it say it had to specifically be a planet even though they prefer any dead space body like a moon. As we see the nebula disappear, it made sense for the mass of the nebula to become Genesis. Plus do you think that the discharging gas and dust in the nebula could be done without a star? Or that Regula could be seen without a star? These come from WITHIN the movie, and NOT from fan theories or deleted scenes that included the one script about Khan automating the Reliant. As for only 14 Augments, they had 73 including Khan. Those eels killed 20 of his people including his wife -- which we can safely assume Marla McGyvers -- that's 54. So, and fan theories why another 40 disappeared despite us only seeing 14? And yet you forgot the 2 obvious ones, how did Chekov know about Khan, and how did the Enterprise reach Regula 1 on impulse power when they were still hours away at warp 5? Even at 40G's -- I did the math -- there was no way the Enterprise could reach Regula before the Enterprise-D was launched. Sounded more like you discovering plot holes had more plot holes than all the Star Trek movies combined on this one.

[@laurentecrivain6944]

One of my issues here is the timeline. "Space Seed" takes place in 2267 and The Wrath Of Khan takes place in 2285, it would have been 18 years since Khan and his people were exiled on Ceti Alpha V. Fifteen years prior, the Enterprise was in spack dock undergoing her 2½ year refit. Also, Khan's crew-which according to the novel To Reign In Hell- The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh-is the offspring of Khan's original people who have since died, they look too old to be teenagers, though naturally that could because they are augments.

[@kjk7611]

I always thought the crew, besides Khan & his exo looked way too young.

[@kjk7611]

I always thought TWoK took place in 2282?

[@laurentecrivain6944]

@@kjk7611- Then it would have made sense.

[@gravesclayton3604]

It was 15 years since the TV Episode until the Film. Meyer wrote the dialog knowing little about the show to begin with, other that when it aired, and I suspect the actors were also in the same mindset. Kirk is also 50, as opposed to when he was 35 in the TV show. Shatner was really obsessed with it because it was HIS age as well. The stardates were, no doubt, filled in for details, accurate or not. as was Chekov. Meyer mentions most of these things, and other 'inconsistencies' in his 'Director's Cut' commentary, which is well worth the listen. IMO Nicholas Meyer's narratives are the reason films #2 & #6 are the best of all of the Star Trek films to date.

[@laurentecrivain6944]

@@gravesclayton3604- Of course, the first part focused on Kirk going through a mid-life crises.

[@tailkinker1972]

re #5: Kirk was actually acting entirely properly by talking to Spock before taking command of the Enterprise. As an Admiral, Kirk is nothing more than a passenger aboard the ship he once commanded. As for ordering Warp 5, the Enterprise's maximum safe speed when she was brand new was Warp 6. Maybe Warp 5 is all Kirk felt safe requesting given the old girl's age.

[@PhantomObserver]

Other thing to bear in mind: warp speed factors are exponential, not sequential. Kirk would have ordered Warp 5 because Warp 6 would have wound up overshooting the destination.

[@k1productions87]

Its just the sense of urgency that was missing, especially how slowly he was strolling the corridors toward Spock's quarters. And no use of internal communications either, which would have certainly expedited things

[@RL20066]

also Kirk was acting with regard to Spock because of Dekker in TMP. When he had to take control of the Enterprize to go to Vger. He did feel bad about taking away Dekker's captain seat. Kirk learned his lesson and was not so quick to take the captain seat from another person without regard.

[@danamoore1788]

@@k1productions87 Decorum. In TOS he was shown to have the deck cleared so no one would see him in a weakened state while he struggled to get back to the bridge. Hurrying to Spock makes him look anxious and not 'in control'. So it is in character.

[@k1productions87]

@@danamoore1788 Which is why you use the internal comm to tell someone to rush to his quarters, as there is nothing out of the ordinary in having a subordinate rush to their superior, even in non-emergency situations.

[@SenorGato237]

They could have also cleared up the tactical snafu at Regula by having Spock mention they dropped a probe when Kirk got back to the ship. That would have made Kirk seem like a good leader because his subordinates are well trained and take the initiative.

[@dereklarner6298]

I liked how the Star Trek New Voyages series dealt with prefix codes in an episode. When facing a threat from a fellow Federation starship, Kirk ordered the prefix code to be reset. Nice attention to detail there.

[@christopherheckman7957]

Hopefully not to 12345, though.

[@stuartwelch6432]

@@christopherheckman7957 "Amazing, I have the same code on by golf bag!" I know, different "universes, but still funny.

[@christopherheckman5392]

@@stuartwelch6432 And it was his luggage, not his golf bag.

[@stuartwelch6432]

@@christopherheckman5392 It was one or the other, I just couldn't remember which it was. (and I think it was 123456, but, it was close enough.)

[@christopherheckman7957]

@@stuartwelch6432 12345. Sounds like you need to watch it again. 8-)

[@peterg76yt]

I always wondered where the Botany Bay refugees had wandered off to when Chekov and Terrell boarded their ship. They apparently just felt like a hike in a sandstorm and left the only shelter on the planet.

[@GregsGameRoom]

In the book (based on the script) says the Enterprise was using the Regula 1 station’s sensors to see where Reliant was. Perhaps it took some time for Spock to hack into them (or he didn’t think to do it until then.)

[@Riceball01]

Kirk visiting Spock beforfe assuming command of the Enterprise makes perfect sense from a chain off command/realism perspective. This would be exactly the way the situation would work out in the real USN as Kirk, despite being an Adrmial, is only a passenger aboard the Enterprise, Spock is still the ship's captain. Because of that, if Kirk were to preemptively assume command without first informing Spock, he would have been violating protocol and probably regulations. Howerver, there's no reason that he couldn't have just done it from the bridge by opening a channel To Spck's quarters to inform him that he's assuming command. But at the same time, Krik would have been fine with a ride to Regula I with Spock still in command of the Entperise and essentially sais as much to Spock. In regards to the cut line where Kahn says that he rigged the Reliant for more automation because he studied the Enterprise back in TOS, that wouldn't have worked. For one thing, the Enterprise and the Reliant were two completely different classes of ship with different systems and the way the Reliant was built and set up would have been different from the Enterprise. while there would have bee some similarities, I'd argue that there would be enough differences that Kahn, superior intellect or not, wouldn't have been able to work out or at least not as fas as he did. Another thing to consider is that even if the systems aboard the Reliant were similar enough to the Entrprise for Kahn's superior intellect to work out,. there's still the matter of the changes in tech and systems due to the refit. The Enterprise was no longer the same ship whose schematics that he memorized all those years ago and the Reliant, whether it's a frefit or a new build, was also like refit Enterrpsie in terms of tech and systems and would have been unfamiliar to Kahn.

[@Asculaepius]

Starfleet is fictitious and the USN is not. While they are analogous in rank, they are not parallels. If Kirk felt the situation was dire, he absolutely could have taken command of the vessel, and he did as much via his "by order of Starfleet command as of now..." speech that was supposed to preclude him visiting Spock. But the dialogue in Spock's quarters was rewritten to have an "I'm not Decker" quality to it and the switch makes sense in a lot of ways, but not if you're really worried about the Genesis device. He didn't even need to go to the bridge - they did have comms after all.

[@beast1624]

This is also MY favorite Star Trek Movie. And I also LOVE your take on this! KEEP IT COMING! That is the only way we will grow as a fan base!

[@pondhop]

You left out the equipment oddity of Captain Terrell beaming down dramatically with his foot on the stone. Did the transporter dude tell him 'Uh, cap, there is a stone, lift your foot two feet before I beam you down' or did the transporter notice that part of him would materialize in something solid and adjust his foot accordingly?

[@richkeeney4744]

He had a shot of Captain Morgan before beaming down.

[@chrisschembari2486]

We've seen this kind of transporter oddity throughout the Star Trek franchise. Someone gets beamed up while sitting or lying down, for example, and they are only sometimes rematerialized in the transporter room in that same position, and sometimes standing up. So the show producers seem to be telling us that transporter systems have a built-in intelligence that repositions body parts as needed for dramatic effect, without damaging the structure and chemistry of the cells of the body.

[@gbonkers666]

Of course, we failed to mention that fact that Kahn had been driven insane by the planet exploding and losing his wife. So, he is not exactly rational. Jochiam even explains to him, "You've won. You have proven that you are a superior being. Let's run." But, Kahn says..."he tasks me...he tasks me..." Before going after Kirk. So, Kahn isn't exactly thing straight. And Kahn does catch on about the Enterprise using the prefix code...."Override! Where's the over-ride." As for Chekov....its Chekov...why would he lie to his friend and an admiral?

[@09rja]

In the book they explain that Scotty couldn't find McCoy......and he came there thinking if he wasn't in Sickbay, that was his next best bet. (I.e. the bridge)

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

Before Khan's first attack, if you look closely, you'll see McCoy followed Kirk and Spock up to the bridge. That's probably where the computer said he was, and thus why Scotty went there instead of Sickbay.

[@Sephiroth144]

Admittedly, and this is firmly headcanon, I feel the PreFix code is like the last step in a "command override" process; firstly, you have to know there is such a thing, but then, you'd have to know the exact frequency to transmit, there would likely be automatic IFF recognition codes after contacting on that frequency (making "sure" the signal came from another Starfleet vessel), some form of "this is the code I'm transmitting" setting, etc; essentially, the 5-digit code is the last part of a multiple step process (many of which are automated, but with enough manual or informational steps to prevent purely automated usage). (This also presume you have an infinite amount of attempts before getting a pause or lockout.) Heck, with how often people forget their own password (let alone remembering if that second A was capitalized or not), would you want it to be a 20 character minimum, special character required, capitalization matters, password you're trying to find/enter while an enemy controlled craft if bearing down on you?

[@Mike1064ab]

What surprised me is all they could do was lower reliant shields they should have at least been able to disable her weapons and bring her to a full stop and it Khan didn’t surrender they could’ve just override the environment safeties and just space them. They know what happened the last time they tried to contain them.

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

You should keep in mind this was near the dawn of the home computer era, most people didn't have any familiarity with passcodes and access numbers. Heck, at the time most people still used 12345 as their P.I.N. 😏 So from that perspective a 5 digit number like that seemed pretty high tech ( though strange Saavik didn't know about it, as a command-prospect cadet, she would have been briefed on the basic security protocols involved in bridge operations).

[@Sephiroth144]

Insofar as Khan not using his superior intellect to use the Enterprise's Prefix Code right back- I'd put money he figured out they took control... the HOW, on the other hand, let alone what the Enterprise's Prefix Code is (or where to find it, what its called, etc) is a completely different issue.

[@plektosgaming]

In simpler terms, it's the 80s version of 2-factor. Remember that it hadn't been named as such, yet.

[@trevormillar1576]

Scotty appearing on the bridge carrying cadet Deadmeat is on a par with the blazing man stumbling out of the elevator in Towering Inferno.

[@NathanWeeks]

What always bugged me about Cadet Preston was that everyone on the bridge, including Spock, seem to grieve for his death, only for him to actually die later in sick bay. It needed a Monty Python "But I'm not dead yet!" moment.

[@koriw1701]

Absolutely!

[@jackroyaltea5034]

Agreed. Like if Scotty had got him to sick bay sooner he’d be alive.

[@cologne2792]

'Tis but a flesh wound...

[@victorygreen]

I wish they didn't cut out the fact Preston was Scotty's nephew from the theatrical cut. In the Director's Cut it was restored and helped the bridge scene make more sense

[@HoustonsProblemo]

The strength of both SNW and LD is the fact that they do not take themselves too seriously. An absolutely amazing episode of SNW and Trek Culture! Great work as always Seán and team!

[@hsasser3]

NO!!! The way Spock encoded his update to Kirk ("Hours could seem like days,") was PERFECT!!! In this case, Khan's "Superior Intellect" worked AGAINST HIM! What Spock did was a SIMPLISTIC SUBSTITUTION! This exploits a VERY COMMON ERROR found among smart people: IT WAS TOO SIMPLE! Khan is looking for complex schemes and puzzles...and Spock's code was so simplistic, Khan missed it completely! He would no more have seen through that, than he could anticipate a small child could have conceived "The Magic Flute." (Look it up...Mozart, Age sex...Master work.) Also, the Enterprise "Suddenly" finding Reliant on Tactical, when neither ship could see each other just two hours before, is no accident. The damage to the two ships destroyed Tactical Scanners. With only 24 men, Khan just couldn't repair Reliant's sensors; while 300+ Enterprise crew-people managed to get both sensors, weapons, and transporters online in just that short of a time-frame. Advantage: a fully-crewed Enterprise. Given more time, Kirk might have been able to bring his ship into a superior fighting ability; but, of course, with Khan, they couldn't take that chance.

[@ronaldhudson169]

Also it is possible that Khan just did not care, he was so blinded by his obsession.

[@zqxzqxzqx1]

You missed that, when the eel leaves Chekov's ear, it comes from the wrong part of the ear. Now for other random things I've noticed... Spock's position at the end of the Kobayashi Maru (faking death,) is somewhat similar to his position at his actual death later, in Engineering. Ceti Alpha five (and six,) would be in the constellation Cetus, the whale (more Moby Dick symbolism.) Khan's facial burns at the end mirror Peter Preston's (as he dies in sick bay.) Kirk has Chekov take the shot that destroys Reliant, providing him with some revenge against Khan for the whole eel thing (and more.) I think the new, red uniforms foreshadow that the crew's going to suffer a great loss by the end (Spock.)

[@Asculaepius]

The red uniforms weren't actually new (except for the officers). You can read Nicholas Meyer's book on ST II, but the short version is he had to reuse the pajama uniforms from STTMP and the only color that they would dye well consistently was maroon. So then they made the officers have matching maroon jackets and added black pants to denote officers or important people. But the folks you see (especially in the "loading torpedoes" sequences) are all wearing maroon TMP uniforms.

[@patrickstewart3446]

A couple points: Warp 5: Remember that at the time the Enterprise is a cadet training ship. The likely don’t have the personnel or fuel to be running the ship that hard. 2. Nebulae are basically star nurseries. There’s likely a nearby star for a planet to orbit around. Plus they contain everything needed to restructure plant life, so it’s not a mystery where all of that came from. As for the planet forming… warp core implosion? That’s the only thing I can think of. 🤔

[@michaelsteven5558]

Where there are stars, there is matter revolving around them. Soon enough to come together in planetary size? At the correct life zone distance? That can be infused with genesis matrix manipulation from a distance? Manipulated in one single planetary size object and not on thousands if not millions of asteroid size objects? Sure. Why not?

[@MatthewSuffidy]

The Wrath of Kahn is a good film. Some of those are not really plot holes, but a higher level of consideration. Like the wounded engineer is Shatner more like saying in an arbitrary fight, guys like that get killed, not him. The code is diagrammatic, and it should be harder, but if there is like a lockout after three tries at a data entry rate of 1 min or so each it is still pretty hard to get past. I think it is suggested the creatures and the breakup was all a plan by Kirk in the first place, so the fact Chekov has one in his head is just a superset of the expectations he will not betray Kirk.

[@sincitytaoist3883]

As far as the planet forming and have the proper angular momentum to spin the gases could have been coalescing in that pattern while it was forming. But people need to keep in mind that the planet destroyed itself in a matter of days too. The Genesis cave was fairly stable but it was done in a preexisting location. As far as the star that shows at the end, it was probably obscured by the nebula. Nebulas can reach into solar systems.

[@lotstodo]

@@sincitytaoist3883 do you think the Genetically Superior guy who died in Kahn's arms was his son?

[@HermanVonPetri]

@@sincitytaoist3883 In many cases young stars have already formed inside of dense nebulas.

[@shmehfleh3115]

Few thoughts... WoK is essentially a melodrama. Nick Meyers once described it as Horatio Hornblower in space as it was being written. As such, it's occasionally gonna do things that make sense from a dramatic standpoint more than a logical one. Scotty's nephew ends up on the bridge because drama. Khan is a bombastic fool because drama. Kirk's lost his captaining mojo because, you guessed it, drama! It's not meant to be hard science fiction really any more than Star Wars is. There are a few themes I think you misunderstood. Khan being a big dumb dummy isn't a bug, it's a feature. Khan, with his 200 years out-of-date knowledge is basically in over his head from the moment he commandeered the Reliant and decided to go after Kirk. Spock says it himself as they're battling in the nebula, "He's intelligent but not experienced." The movie beats you over the head with the fact that Khan is obsessed with Kirk the way Ahab was obsessed with the white whale. (The Botany Bay, the Melville quotes, the 'revenge is a dish best served cold' line, etc.) He's not thinking rationally at any point in the film; he constantly lets both his rage and his inflated ego get the best of him, and Kirk uses that to his advantage. The whole "KHAAAAAN!" shout was a fade. It was Kirk getting in Khan's head at least as much as Khan was trying to get in Kirk's. You could argue that the main villain not representing a credible threat to the hero is a questionable choice, but I think they pulled it off expertly. And although Kirk is unmatched at being a starship commander, he still only bests Khan by losing his best friend. The last major theme I think you missed is the loss of innocence. Kirk hesitates to launch the Enterprise because it's crewed by a bunch of fresh-faced young Starfleet grads, not because he doesn't recognize the urgency of the situation. Kirk seeks advice from Spock before committing to this mission because he wasn't sure the crew could handle the pressure. Kirk then apologizes to the crew and asks them to "...grow up a little early" which, of course has some pretty dark connotations later on in the flick. This is mirrored by Kirk's own loss of innocence: The idea that Kirk made it all the way up to the rank of admiral without ever really facing the harsh reality of death is such an important theme that the movie devotes the entire first 20 minutes of runtime to with, with the Kobayashi Maru test. (To be fair, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to say Kirk hasn't ever faced death given how many redshirts died under his command during TOS' run.) The rest of this is really just nitpicking: Yeah, the Reliant's prefix number seems simple, but maybe the ship's computer only accepts commands from other Federation starships, and it lock out too many failed attempts. (And perhaps Kirk changed the Enterprise's own prefix code off-camera.) The real answer, of course, is that the movie was made in 1982, decades before the average moviegoer would even have a concept of why one would need secure passwords on computers. Maybe Khan only had enough eel babies to give to Chekhov and Terrell. Yeah, the secret code that Kirk & Spock come up with is kinda dumb, but it ultimately no real impact on the story, other than to make Khan comment that the Enterprise was "...not so wounded as we were led to believe. So much the better." And as for the Genesis planet itself, I was always under the impression that it was Regula. After all, neither ship could travel at warp, so they were obviously still in the same star system. And as for the Genesis planet, I'm pretty sure it's implied that the Genesis wave hit Regula and caused its transformation. Neither ship could move at warp speeds, so they were stuck in the star system. That's at least no more absurd than the notion that the Federation could build a bomb that creates habitable planets out of whole cloth.

[@OliverAndDarin]

Some of these are awesome observations others I could probably find a legit reason. Brie you do great voiceover work.

[@ncl1701]

The scanner on the Enterprise were out when Kirk beam to the station. Spock mentioned it on the bridge. It is never mentioned why the Reliant couldn't see the Enterprise though. Now why Kahn didn't use the prefix code is Kirk walked right into the trap. As for why Kahn didn't use it after Kirk just did the damage to the Reliant took out her weapons and warp drive. More than likely putting her on auxiliary power. Later it is stated that the impulse power had just been restored when Kahn went back after the Enterprise. But still doesn't help the sensor issue.

[@joermnyc]

Khan was more familiar with TOS tech, he seems to have not learned much about the refit bridge (compared to Joachim) as when Enterprise lowers Reliant’s shields, Khan panics looking for “the override” and the camera shows a POV shot of him looking across a massive amount of buttons on the console! (Just about the only thing he gets right is later when Joachim argues with him about following Enterprise into the nebula, Khan shoves him aside and uses the impulse throttle sliders.)

[@MrSheckstr]

The Reliant was a science vessel, possibly a civilian vessel with only a starfleet operations crew , as such that would explain WHY it didnt have the same level of classified information as the enterprise has, both on the genesis device AND the security override codes of OTHER vessels

[@Asculaepius]

@@MrSheckstr The Reliant was a Starfleet frigate. Carol makes it clear Genesis is a civilian project and Chekov says, "I'm sorry that you feel that way doctor, Admiral Kirk's orders are confirmed." Khan had already marooned Terell and Chekov by the time of the battle, and even if he knew about the prefix code, he wouldn't have had any way to access Starfleet classified information without them.

[@filippofittipaldi8050]

Unlike books, movies and TV, suffer from time constraints. There are virtually always plot holes or lack of exposition. If the project entertains you, you overlook them. If not, they are glaring. I loved all iterations of Trek with the minor exceptions of ST: V and the first animated series.

[@mem1701movies]

The Animated Series was awesome

[@filippofittipaldi8050]

@@mem1701movies I didn't hate it. I just didn't care for the animation style. I know it had interesting stories.

[@erineddy9310]

HA! this was great. after being together for 7 years the wife has FINALLY agreed to watch all of Trek with me... all 56 years of it... the good, the bad, the Motion Picture. lol we just got through TOS and the original 6 movies. she enjoyed them but had many of the same criticisms - lovingly. Her ire during some scenes had me rolling - McCoy not being familiar with the anatomy of a Klingon - the federation's primary adversary - she nearly threw her popcorn. lol BUT it's like making fun of your best friend - you love 'em... but you can admit... they do some dumb stuff. lol 🖖🏻

[@alm2187]

Hm. He did once detect a Klingon impersonating a human because "anatomy's all wrong." That's precedent for how he could know, though, not why he would. He's got x number of Federation member species whose lives he may be called upon to save. Why would he prioritize study of how to treat the enemy?

[@erineddy9310]

@@alm2187 good one! and is a fair point! there's probably a better example out there... like Khan telling Chekhov he never forgets a face even though Chekhov isn't in Space Seed. though, maybe he saw Chekhov's service record in the Enterprise databanks... still fun to poke fun - the characters are only as smart as the writers write them. 🖖🏻

[@bryanlawrence6234]

@@erineddy9310 Ha. That's my favorite hole in this whole movie. The first thought I had when I saw it in the theatre 40 years ago, um I'm pretty sure Chekov wasn't in Space Seed and never met Khan. I still love the movie though.

[@erineddy9310]

@@bryanlawrence6234 I'm trying to think what my favorite plot hole is... aside from those in Wrath of Khan... but maybe the one that confused me the most is that Tuvok wasn't on the Excelsior in Star Trek 6... *originally. Tim Russ was on the Enterprise B, though not as a Vulcan - then, suddenly Voyager Retcons this. plot hole so big you could drive V'ger through it. lol

[@josephfisher426]

​@@erineddy9310 Apparently an episode in which Chekov appears was "dated" before Space Seed. So he was theoretically there but not seen, as happens to Sulu a number of times. The reason isn't clear; maybe it was for some lesser continuity-related reason. Episodes did get produced out of the order in which they were scripted, but that was a big jump.

[@paulsweeney2959]

One thing about Cadet Preston that is almost never mentioned. He was originally listed in the script as Scotty's nephew. It remained in at least one novelization of the movie. Likely, the reference was cut to the floor when Scotty introduced him. A shame really as it gave more context to why Scotty, used to having crew members die in service, had such an emotional reaction. The entire arc of the movie was the whole "facing death," and accountability for actions which was just a tad watered down.

[@Revan2908]

That detail was actually filmed, cut from the theatrical version, included in the ABC Sunday Night movie version, and subsequently the director's cut. He specifically says "My sister's youngest, Admiral. Crazy to get to space."

[@noralockley8816]

Odd I saw it in the theater the first time I saw it and new he was Scotty's sister's kid. Maybe there was different theatrical releases.

[@roberthunter4884]

Welp, I have always wondered, everything on the planet is affected by the Genesis wave and then proceeds to grow and evolve from that point forward. Once the wave covers the planet, it's done it's job and only objects exposed to the wave are affected as it makes contact with them. Spock's pod landed long after the wave had gone, therefore it shouldn't have had any effect on his corpse. His body/cells could not regenerate and evolve since they weren't present at the time of Genesis. Otherwise we can argue that if you place dead cells on the planet after the wave, then everything and everyone that came into contact with the planet would be adversity affected, either the landing party would suddenly evolve at an accelerated rate like Spock, or, they would have died after beaming to the surface because Genesis would kill any living thing, which is why Khan wanted it, right? There was life already present when his pod landed, meaning the wave was over, otherwise those lifeforms would have been killed. Continuity at its worst. It just doesn't work both ways because they want it to. Anyway, sorry for the lengthy rant. Loved the review, love you, take care and stay safe ❤️.

[@noamuth89]

As with the argument, that Khan could have searched for the prefix code: I think you need a rank higher than captain to be able to obtain the data from the computersystem. I would be quite dangerous, if a mere captain can optain all codes. Imagine a prefix system in Picards era. The borg would have crushed starfleet even faster.

[@ragtowne]

Starships in the next generation timeframe had prefix codes, in the episode “the wounded“ the prefix codes of the federation starship “Phoenix” are obtained by Captain Picard from the Enterprise main computer, which are then relayed to the Cardassian starships to give them an advantage over a nebula class federation starship

[@CrashCartwright]

From a strictly story flow standpoint, Kirk asks Saavik to "punch up Reliant's command," so I don't think you needed to be above a captain, but maybe you needed to be a Starfleet officer, and maybe Khan didn't think to that level of detail before dumping off Terrell and Chekov. Or maybe he didn't know about it from his previous readings, or it was added in after Khan was dropped off in TOS.

[@cfabz2023]

Fun fact: in the 2nd season TNG episode "Unnatural Selection," Picard retreats to his ready room, queries the computer for the USS Lantree's prefix code, and executes remote control of said USS Lantree. However, if a captain gets compromised in some way, Starfleet can always revoke an individual's access to codes, and automatically change codes once they've been accessed.

[@ryjinannon]

From the way it's presented in the movie, it seems like you have to have an open line of communication for this trick to work. Like opening an attachment in an dodgy e-mail. Kahn found out the hard way that there were, in fact, no hot single MILFs in his area.

[@cfabz2023]

And actually we know they do change access codes, because in the 7th season two-parter "The Gambit," Data and Troy (if I remember right) specifically mention that Ryker must know that his access codes no longer work after he was captured and he tried them on the Enterprise.

[@phenry1970]

I'll defend the prefix code as an example of multifactor authentication. Yes, the code is only five digits, but it was transmitted by an authenticated Federation starship--simply broadcasting it from an anonymous transmitter would surely not have worked. More than that, though, the prefix code was retrieved by Spock, still nominally in command of the Enterprise, so presumably it's not something that just anyone would have had access to. Putting it all together, and assuming the transmission was cloaked in any number of layers of 23rd century encryption, I'd say it was probably pretty damn secure.

[@Z1gguratVert1go]

Also audiences don't want to sit there while they input a 500 character passphrase. As a writing challenge, keeping it short and sweet gets the point across. I heard the same criticism of authorization codes in Star Trek the Next Generation, as even Commander data's fake one in the episode Brothers where he steals the Enterprise isn't that long, but those are multi-factor authentication because there is voiceprint analysis

[@BaalsMistress]

There's also the point that no amount of intelligence will make up for not possessing specific knowledge. Given Khan's history, it's not at all unreasonable to assume he simply did not know that the prefix codes exist.

[@Asculaepius]

@@BaalsMistress And the fact that, in the director's cut, Kirk says, "We're only alive because I knew something about these ships that he didn't" to McCoy in Sickbay after Preston's death. Given it was shot on film and Meyer felt the need to put it in his cut, I think he wanted to put that to rest.

[@adeskin1701]

Agreed with all of the above. The key word here is PREFIX, suggesting it is a specific code preceding another code(s) or data needed for access. The dialogue could have simply said “access code,” in which case such a short series of numbers would indeed be problematic. Someone was clever and chose to name it “prefix code,” which has a specific meaning and really is not open to interpretation. One could imagine Starfleet routinely updating command codes as well for added security in addition to all the aforementioned multi-factor layers. This scene has never bothered me. The word “prefix” was well considered.

[@ronaldhudson169]

@@adeskin1701 It forms a prefix to all the commands Enterprise sent to Reliant. Commands like "De-power the shields", "lock out bridge control of weapons and shields" etc.

[@stewartbugler]

That scene would of added alot to people unfamiliar with Khan but to be fair I always thought Khans only failing was that he thought he was superior even to his fellow enhanced beings. There's multiple instances his first mate (I'm terrible at command structures but they are technically pirates here) gives the correct course of action a fair few times in suggestions and the vengeful Khan overruled and kept gunning from Kirk. Something to note about this film is that Kirk really should of done something about Khans situation he was completely justified in being angry. I mean literally right next door to his suffering they have people building exactly what his world needed. Yet the Federation aparrently had no record of his situation Kirk had completely forgotten the terms of his deal.

[@Mike1064ab]

Yah if they were real pirates Joachim would have mutinied against Khan and took command especially if he was able to get enough of his fellow crew on his side. He seemed to make a lot more sense than khan especially since he had no vendetta he simply wanted to take the reliant and find safe harbor. Maybe go to that planet the Botany Bay was originally on course for before the enterprise found it.

[@michaelmiller3012]

Star Trek II is EXACTLY why the Federation later invented the California Class ships :)

[@Zurround]

@@michaelmiller3012 1. Help me out, what is so much better at them? And what problem do they solve from the movie? Please say a little more?

[@michaelmiller3012]

@@Zurround In Star Trek: Lower Decks, they introduce the California Class of ships as the "second contact" fleet. Essentially, they are tasked with following up and maintaining relations with the cultures and people the "hero" ships and crews meet. Of course, in THAT show that is occasionally played up for comedic effect, but it is a serious and important (if unglamorous) job. They could have followed up with Khan after Ceti Alpha VI exploded.

[@Zurround]

@@michaelmiller3012 Is "lower decks" even official canon? The 1973 tv cartoon does not fit with canon well and many of the novels and comic book stories do not either.

[@phantommercenary8650]

What always got me was when Kirk asks Spock for a damage report, then Spock (his lead Science Officer) simply points to the blinking red lights on the same diagram that Kirk can see. You can see it at 2:28

[@CitiesTurnedToDust]

Most of the Movie: the antagonist and his crew are a group of super geniuses and are almost impossible to overcome Movie end: antagonist and his crew are so cartoonishly dimwitted they don't realize space is 3 dimensional

[@mikebelcher7244]

Great video. What's most disturbing about this (and I have found parallels in gaming) is a growing inability in modern audiences (or a ever growing segment of it) to actually accept a story for what it is...a story. The increasing need to rationalize what doesn't make sense in a story, the mental gymnastics people will go through, it's almost pathological. Look at the comments for a glimpse...they can't just accept that things are shown or told for dramatic effect because that's what the director/game developer/etc is doing...telling a story.

[@susanscott8653]

Agreed. If you sew up all plot holes, you end with either a story that's as dull as dish water, or no story at all. Having said that, I didn't know that WOK was stitched together from three different scripts and written in two weeks. That'll do it. 😉

[@natecunha2795]

I've always assumed the eels became easier to resist over time, and they had just about reached their limit at the point where the captain was about to shoot Kirk (which would also explain why Chekov's died at the same instant; they were just short-lived).

[@jonathanmellette8541]

That's great head-canon. It definitely works.

[@cfabz2023]

Along those lines but slightly different: I always assumed that since they were baby Ceti eels, they were still growing. When Captain Terrell hesitates, the eel is too big to maintain effective control of its host and has to leave either because it can no longer sustain itself due to physiological changes as it matures, or just its size.

[@TheExpatpom]

Or the other thing I always thought was that maybe the sound of phaser fire upsets them. Tyrell shoots a scientist and not a minute later the eel’s effects aren’t working properly anymore and he kills himself, and almost immediately after this second phaser shot Chekhov’s eel is like “screw this, I’m out of here.” If it’s a reaction to nearby phaser fire then it doesn’t need to be a nice coincidence that the eels choose that moment to ruin Khan’s plan, and it’s possibly not something Khan would’ve been aware of. Still could’ve used Bones saying “Maybe the phasers or something, Jim” instead of leaving it for audiences to speculate about for years, so the real reason was probably always just Kirk’s massive plot armour.

[@RictusHolloweye]

Alternatively, Khan may not have been telling the full truth when taunting Chekov and Tyrrel about what the eels would do to them.

[@alannunn]

Perhaps the high levels of stress (cortisol dumping) had an unusual reaction with the eels. Khan only had so much to work with on the planet he was dumped on.

[@CaptainVideo1960]

It’s just these kinds of videos that make me smile. Both the best and least best,(no ST movie is really ever bad), all have dumb stuff in them. I can enjoy them all, including The Final Frontier. People just make a point of highlighting the dumb stuff in movies they dislike and ignoring the mounds of it in movies they do like. Just have fun and don’t take them too seriously and you won’t have a heart full of hate for people who like what you call, “the bad ones.”

[@robertmaxwell6065]

I watch movies to be entertained. I do enjoy picking things apart, but also pointing out things that most miss..... Like the Binford Toolbox in Toystory for instance..... I do agree, no ST movie is really ever bad! Maybe one exception.... They did reboot TOS. They did STOP making TNG movies...... they were kindasorta bad!

[@brucetucker4847]

Sorry, V is just bad.

[@MegaJetty1]

Regarding Kahn's "Inferior Superior Intellect", this is due to his ego always getting the better of him. He is Superior but his ego is why he loses to the likes of Kirk. And regarding Genesis forming despite not being detonated on a lifeless body, this was explained that the device created it from Reliant's debris and atoms in the nebula, this combined with the proto-matter explains why Genesis crumbled in ST3, because it didn't go the way it was supposed to. If it had detonated on a lifeless rock, it could've worked.

[@donhansen5677]

Wow, I can't believe how wrong you got almost all of this stuff. 1) The Genesis planet is Regulus, it was terraformed because it was close enough to the detonation. 2) The reason the Enterprise was travelling at low warp speeds, was because it was crewed by trainees. 3) The reason Scotty showed up on the bridge with his dying nephew was to show Kirk what he did by pushing a trainee crew into a mission before they were ready. 4) Khan killed the "extra" scientists because he knew the project leaders were the ones he needed. 5) The Reliant was not supposed to be at or near Regulus, they were supposed to be far away looking for a suitable planet to test Genesis. 6) Only an Admiral rank or higher could have tried to seize the Genesis materials, which is who Kirk was expecting to find on the Reliant when Reliant unexpectedly showed up to intercept Enterprise. 7) The prefix code was added to Star Fleet ships after the first Klingon war. Just one failed attempt to use a prefix code would lockout the system. 8) Khan didn't need to use the prefix code on Enterprise as it didn't have any shields left.

[@laurenceperkins7468]

The prefix code isn't necessarily that dumb. The computers are, presumably, already communicating over a secure, trusted connection ("We're all one big, happy family" after all). If it's a case where you get *one* try and getting it wrong locks you out and sets off the alarm, then that's a perfectly reasonable number of digits. The eel exit is a little overly convenient, but it's never really said how long the lifecycle is. Possibly they were just about done with their hosts anyway and so Khan left them on the station just to try to get one final use out of them. At which point their hold on the officers might have been slipping. They really should have put Terrell on the comms to justify being able to ambush the Enterprise. It would have made far more sense given all the buildup.

[@Buc_Stops_Here]

This is fascinating. The Genesis project was the key to this film and was a potential title. The Undiscovered Country was actually the last film of the movie series with the original crew. I guess they really do recycle ideas at Paramount. #8 was something I always wondered - if McCoy was such a good doctor, why did he ignore his patients when they told him what was going on? #7 - Kahn was smart in the original TV episode as it was written smartly. As pointed out, in this movie, vengeance is his driving force not intelligence. This is a nice analysis of a decent film

[@MrTeekay68]

Thank you for not listing the "Khan shouldn't have known Chekov" thing that I have heard people whine about for 40 years. There is a very easy explanation for why Khan Knew Chekov. Pavel was a part of the crew even though Walter wasn't a part of the cast. The ship had 430 people. Obviously, "space seed" happened before Pavel was promoted to the bridge.

[@scott.c9587]

Pavel had his assignment on the ship so coincidentally he was not at his post at the time of Khans appearance.

[@thewb8329]

The average audience does not notice these flaws watching the movie once or even three times. Continuity can be overlooked for dramatic effect for the overall narrative.

[@fnordranger]

Kahn studied pre-refit Enterprise technical manuals. Enough changed (just look at the bridge technology and the nacelles) between the original ship and the refit that those manuals would have little applicability to Reliant (the refit Anton-class).

[@richardvinsen2385]

Assuming Kahn and crew were monitoring communications between Kirk and Enterprise, how did he not hear Kirk requesting to be beamed up after the time had passed?

[@k1productions87]

That one is easy. They weren't monitoring communications, they were hearing through Captain Terrell's wrist device, as he was standing right there listening to it.

[@midnightrun5622]

Or Khan & his motley crew assumed the Enterprise followed her orders and left the scene 1 hour prior.

[@TheWeatherbuff]

Great outline of the boo-boos, many of which I have noticed since I've watched the movie about 500 times, and it's still one of my faves. Here's one thing that always bugged me: When Kirk, McCoy and Saavik are on the science station and Kirk breaks the glass to access the tubes revealing Chekov and Terrell, she jumps, visibly startled. A Vulcan getting startled like that seems a bit odd. Minor thing, but it always "jumps" out at me. Thanks Folks!

[@SBatts-rd9kg]

In a cutscene early in the beginning of the movie just before Spock gives Kirk his birthday present "A Tale of Two Cities" he explains that Saavik is "half Romulan JIm, the admixture tends to make her more vulnerable."

[@kjk7611]

@@SBatts-rd9kg But her other half is Romulan. The same species. And Spock is half human. Quite different species.

[@Birdoneful]

I love this movie and the original cast

[@johnfoster3895]

It is funny that people use "HIND SIGHT" and criticize what others have made literally millions of $$$ 40+ years. Instead, invest your own money and make a movie that is absolutely PERFECT in every way, shape, and form. It was a Star Trek movie that made many-many fans extremely happy and many executives very rich. Not so dumb after all? ? ?

[@PeterRichardsandYoureNot]

Not only is the code easy, it’s also the exact number of our family business’ post office box from 1969 through the late 90’s.

[@bontrom8]

I was a young child when this came out and when my extended family all watched it in the theater I could not handle the thing crawling into the ear so got my mom to take me out to the parking lot to feel better. Seeing this review made me realize I never went back and watched it! Now I want to--thanks for the video!

[@Mushroommarx]

Omg, this hurt me in the feels because I love this movie and, when stumbling upon the thumbnail I shouted aloud, “how dare you!!” And proceeded to watch…and agreed with every single point she made.

[@aneyesky]

In the feels?

[@Mushroommarx]

Yeah, the feels. Like emotions. Lol

[@brentbarr498]

3:55 Bree, you did a REALLY good Chekov impersonation.. you even used his inflections.. which is what sold it for me... not to mention you did a passable McCoy. You have a LOT of talent should you choose to develop it!

[@daveroche6522]

Agreed. Plus she'd be excellent as the snarky computer voice in any halfway decent scifi movie....

[@MrFuzzyGreen]

Not so good here though. Sing songy tone with no emphasis in the right places. It's hard to sit through.

[@DavidStephenFrench]

In the script, cadet Prestin is Scotty's nephew. The filmed dialogue was cut from the theatrical release, but put back in the extended version.

[@brucecorin3717]

I thought it was strange that checkov was known by Khan when khan was in the first season but checkov didn't start till the second season, so how did khan know him if they never met