Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Discovery 5.10 - Life, Itself (SERIES FINALE)

The last one...
Read Jack Kiely's article version here: whatculture.co...
Listen to The TrekCulture Podcast - Tuesdays on;
Spotify: open.spotify.c...
Apple: podcasts.apple...
Acast: play.acast.com...
For more awesome content: whatculture.com...
Follow TrekCulture on Twitter: / trekculture
Follow us on Instagram: / trekcultureyt
#StarTrek #StarTrekDiscovery #StarfleetAcademy

[@kenwynn3871]

Can't believe you didn't give an up to that split second decision Rayner had where he could have understandably lashed out at the Breen and ordered them jumped into the black hole, but didn't he held back and stuck to his starfleet principles. Great moment for him.

[@Cyke101]

For real. "That's more than they gave my family" seals it.

[@thomashong2938]

He might have acted differently had that been Primarch Tahal’s dreadnought.

[@TheHumbleWordsmith]

I can't believe how deep people will dig to find ups for this show. "Didn't commit murder when he could have." Let's just start giving all the episodes infinite ups, given that they're always inside giant death machines.

[@Cyke101]

@@TheHumbleWordsmith It's more than that (and I honestly believe murder is sometimes treated too casually, in all eras of Trek), but rather that Rayner's arc went from vengeance and racism to mercy and duty over the course of the season, with this being the payoff, is what makes it important. And my biggest complaint about Discovery as a whole is that it doesn't really do character development well if you're not Burnham, Tilly, or Stametz (even Saru and Culber don't get that, as prominent as they are). So for Rayner to get it was satisfying to me. To me he was done well.

[@lawrencewalston2272]

The revelation that the Progenitors did not develop the tech that Starfleet and the Breen were clashing over reminded me of the film "Contact" based on the Carl Sagan novel of the same name. At the end of the transit network, Ellie Arroway is conversing with an emmisary (for lack of a better word) and finds that his people didn't develop the network but that it was built by those who were "long gone."

[@Pommster]

The flamethrowers come from the same department that provided the rocks whenever a panel explodes.

[@ViroVV]

The fire extinguishers wont be installed till tuesday.

[@davidhamilton6612]

@@ViroVV good one. Harkens back to Star Trek: Generations.

[@KenjiWardenclyffe]

Angry Saru was both incredibly terrifying and incredibly amazing!

[@rachelnesser9223]

Yes, so true! Doug Jones gave a stellar performance.

[@WabbitCrouton]

And all that acting through his prosthetics. Top actor and makeup team.

[@Astrorenity]

Don't you mean action Saru 😅

[@scottishadonis]

Actually it was pretty cringe coming from a character that cries victim all of the time, even though his species nearly hunted another to extinction ☠️.

[@Astrorenity]

@@scottishadonis shush yer gums

[@QuintusAntonious]

Hot take: Moll and L'ok added very little to this season and could have been eliminated early on or entirely with just the Breen being the main antagonists.

[@wood9670]

Very reasonable take. If L'ok was resurrected, became the new Primarch , and then opened up a Breen alliance with Federation then the story arc would of had a payoff.

[@QuintusAntonious]

@@wood9670 I think Sean's probably right that they were planning on developing this arc a bit further in Season 6 and beyond. It was probably going towards that point but they got sidelined by the cancellation and had to wrap it up in the way we received instead.

[@PassivesAbseits]

Yes and no... Because giving your antagonist a face and a somewhat relateble motivation is important in itself. There was a part of me, that cheered for Moll to succed and revive L'ok, while I never would have cheered for that faceless alien empire to succed. That added to the tension. But yes, Moll suffered a severe case of "The enemy dumbs down, so she won't defeat us" in the end, which was a down.

[@xxxmina]

L'ok should've been ressurected or brought back as a baby for her to raise or Moll gets pregnant with help of the tech... wtf did they end up doing with the tech anyway? did i fall asleep and miss something?

[@lightningwingdragon973]

Yeeeeeaaaaa, kinda agree.

[@richardcochrane1966]

"Agent Daniels, of the USS Enterprise" My jaw hit the floor! Never saw it coming....

[@coreymason7017]

Idk if they changed the design of the shuttle in the end, but it stuck out to me as being a little Orville-esque . Maybe it’s just me

[@mikalmos369]

No it wasn't just you as I had the exact same thought

[@JSLEnterprises]

Well, there was a few Stargate's Ori vessels in the lineup of Disco's last voyage out of drydock

[@Vipre-]

I thought the same thing. it was the "strap" over the back.

[@Blimbus-Blombo]

No i thought the exact same thing! It’s probably a reference to it.

[@AirForceDunn]

100%, i couldn't help but say it out loud at the time

[@VulcanTrekkie45]

One thing you missed: Leto was named for Book's nephew, who died when Kwejian was destroyed

[@PiAddiction]

good catch

[@lucianoduarte891]

Vance called Saru "Admiral" at his wedding, so action Saru earned a promotion

[@thomashong2938]

He convinced an entire Breen fleet to turn around without firing a shot. He deserved that promotion.

[@clevelandknight1094]

I thought it was a mistake

[@mahmudisma3800]

So, a star ship is transported thousands of light years against its will, together with an opposing smaller starship whose crew are compatible with that of the bigger star ship. They now have to travel thousands of light years home, though the unknown. Seems kinda VOYAGER: THE BREEN

[@OhNoTheFace]

Ah pretending war criminals are people

[@CaritasGothKaraoke]

But remember, it’s a location that the NCC-1701 could just doink off to in the first season of TOS, and one very close to a planet (Delta Vega) that must be only about 500,000 miles from Vulcan (since it looked about the size of Earth’s moon from the surface according to JJ, the man who thinks space is the size of a Costco parking lot, where you can see a distant solar system get blasted by lasers from the side in real-time.)

[@rickkarrer8370]

The Agent Daniels really got me.

[@charlesajones77]

I was expecting him to be a Lanthanite.

[@mnfrench7603]

I was holding out it was Sisko. They lingered on the baseball too long.

[@remirez2k3]

i nearly jumped outta my chair at that reveal

[@mightymulatto3000]

That was really cool! That answers so many questions! A bit of a mystery regarding Discovery.

[@spilchsaysstuff1427]

This actually pissed me off. The baseball should have been passed down through the Sisko family. Daniels either stole it, or there were no Siskos to pass it down to and it was just abandoned.

[@K9.808]

I miss Nilsson. Also, did anyone notice Admiral Vance addressing Saru as Admiral instead of Ambassador in the wedding scene?

[@QuintusAntonious]

Yes! I wondered if perhaps I misheard and Saru was addressing Vance as "Admiral" then Vance jumped right to greeting "Madam President" and just didn't address Saru verbally. Glad I'm not crazy.

[@K9.808]

@@QuintusAntonious I replayed it more times than sane to confirm. It just looks like bad ADR added in post production.

[@christianmino3753]

We should do the retro ups and downs chronologically and watch an episode of a certain trek show each week together and then do ups and downs as if they aired that week. It's a great way to keep it going while we are in between shows, and there is a LOT of legacy trek to cover. Thank you so much for giving me a way to enjoy the episode twice. Love the ups and downs so much.

[@QuintusAntonious]

I would love this, but I wonder if they don't do it this way because it takes a lot of time and resources to make Ups and Downs and they aren't going to get the same kind of engagement (and thus monetary incentive) as when you do it for a recently aired episode that is getting lots of traffic that week.

[@christianmino3753]

@@QuintusAntonious This may be a concern, but I think it's safe to say, those of us who are truly invested in the ups and downs, would be willing to watch it with a toned down production like the one that was done on sisko day. Just an ups and downs live stream would be great and who knows, maybe it will be super popular and can keep this production value. All in all I think it's worth a shot, if it doesn't work out it can always stop :)

[@jorgedavila4920]

Anyone else notice that the federation shuttles look a lot like the Orville's shuttles look

[@graywolfUK]

Yes. Now they need the orville writers for better story lines.

[@BlokeOnAMotorbike]

haha yep glad I wasn't the only one who thought that

[@PradoxGamerAu]

We never got that drink with Reno pay off

[@chazmania3644]

Reno and Rayner will have to show up in at least one episode as guest instructors at Starfleet Academy.

[@Sephiroth144]

At least we have her Community Mixology Certification

[@tonyshane1]

I totally missed that reference.

[@Coretalless]

I'm still hoping that we learn Reno is the new Commadore of the Starfleet Museum.

[@JoeSiegler]

I think a lot of stuff like that can be explained with "Well, if we got a Season 6 or more...."

[@me-li8kd]

I've seen great series finales and I've seen awful series finales. But this was by far the blandest.

[@micahnewby7964]

Of all the finales to ever end a series, this was one of them

[@Trelane574]

A moment of sentimentality is one thing, 20 or so minutes of plotless sentimentality is trying the viewers' patience. Brevity is the soul of much more than wit.

[@ckeller98]

Michael’s vulcan meditation was also her hand set up in a triangle was also a reflection of the solution of the negative space solution

[@mikeled88]

I audibly went, "Oh, f**k you," in the best-meaning way when the Daniels thing dropped. That was a great touch.

[@EliotHochberg]

I think this is an instance where you need to let go of your dislike of the AR wall. Maybe it was noticeable, I guess, but it also very much fit what was being shown here. To me, this was an interesting visualization that we haven’t really seen before even in AR wall effects.I liked it.

[@MikeD87916]

I say the pink planet is actually Nibiru, the same planet we see in the opening sequence to Star Trek Into Darkness in the Kelvin timeline. And I absolutely LOVE the payoff for Kovich.

[@HermanVonPetri]

I thought that too.

[@SilentDrifterGT]

That’s what popped into me head when I saw that

[@jcarr162000]

Same here

[@beej1300]

I agree! I feel like the music cue at that point even pulls from the Into Darkness theme.

[@aaronjohnson1422]

I immediately thought the same thing!

[@LeeCarlson]

Moll has not acted "rationally" since Lok decided to kill himself to let her escape (come to think of it, neither of them has been precisely rational this entire season).

[@ViroVV]

Honestly... I dont see that she was ever truly acting rationally the whole season. She went to being a nuke of daddy issues to a warp core full of assorted red flags of every possible shape. From the word go she started off as pointlessly confrontational and stuck with that up until the last 20 minutes where she gives up barely batting an eye.

[@dramonmaster222]

Thank you! Moll has done nothing but make bad choices since her introduction. If anything, this is in character.

[@AnnoyingCritic-is7rp]

I don't understand the point of her story. I thought we were just pretending that resurrecting La'ck was a serious idea, and that she wasn't just an idiot.

[@tristanmendoza4628]

There is another angle of the "progenitor's tech" being sent beyond the event horizon and into the black hole... it emerges on the other side and it is back in time where it is found by the progenitors to discover and we go full circle. Great to see Cronenberg on this show and very nice he is revealed as Daniels!

[@sparquisdesade]

That Mustafar joke. Oh man. Could you imagine those two falling thru a portal onto mustafar during the fight between anakin an obi. Right as he's about to jump at him they fall into their world, hitting the edge of anakin's platform he just falls right in. Just full on face tanks all that magma. Then jus an awkward silence as they all stare at one another till Obi says "Hello there!"

[@scottishadonis]

I think the force would have alerted them…

[@SciFi2285]

If you want to just go full on Discovery level corny might as well have Spock appear to say: “The force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My (step)sister has it. Yes it’s YOU Michael” 🙄

[@WonkoTheSaneUK]

I was waiting for Burnham to shout "It's Over Moll - I have the high ground!"

[@TheHumbleWordsmith]

These writers really showed their love for Enterprise. To give us an entire series to take the weight of all the fan complaints...

[@WrestlingWithGaming]

Lmao this genuinely made me laugh out loud

[@AnnoyingCritic-is7rp]

Apparently we have so much IDIC we don't need any more.

[@jaymedina3142]

I have much appreciated your content over these past years. Paramount/CBS should be a sponsor of the channel.

[@etarnkufecin]

I'm not sure if Moll was poorly written or cast or what. The actress is decent enough, but its been a literal season long troupe of "I'm going to make bad decisions just to spite you all!" And this episode summed it up perfectly with the triangles. It was written as if the character was supposed to be a pre-teen/teen hellbent on saving their parent no matter the cost instead of an adult professional courier just in love.

[@ViroVV]

Im thinking a little from column A and a little from column B. She seems like a pretty mid acting talent but what they wrote for her when you mentally parse it down to words on a page is just not good.

[@marcusjohansson668]

She apparently can't stand still either, always this swaying of her body... It's extremely annoying to watch. I really do not want to think the actor is bad, like, "highschool theatre first time on the stage can not stand still bad" but rather the writing is terrible, like everything else in this series, but I don't know. It find everything in this series to be a complete fkn joke, terrible writing and a story I now when it is over, can not even recall. LMAO The series is so bad I cant even remember what happened to the characters! I recall EXACTLY what happened to every single character in every single star trek series before, with this, I REALLY don't give a sh*t, I feel nothing for the characters.. Want to know a secret, I have not even watched the last episode, and after reading the comments, I am not even sure I will... Might actually be better to just make up an ending in my head instead...

[@etarnkufecin]

@@ViroVV Yeah it really comes down to the writers somehow wanting to write a story line for a sympathetic character but at the same time making her an unlikeable character and apparently that does not work at all.

[@QuintusAntonious]

Moll and L'ok could have been completely absent from this season and very little would have changed. They should have just made the Breen the antagonists and developed them a bit more so they weren't Snidely Whiplash evil.

[@ViroVV]

@@marcusjohansson668 You want to know a secret? Outside of Stammets in season 1 with the spore drive sections, you can skip over Stammets, Culber, Gray and Adira sections completely and honestly not miss anything important. I havent tried it with others yet but I think Booker would probably fall into this category too. Add that to the already forgotten bridge crew and you realize this was really just a SMG vanity project punching WAY above its weight.

[@stephanieamare]

I feel almost sad for Zora. Because we know just how long she/the ship will have to wait. I guess Daniels really wanted to correct the timeline.

[@SilentDrifterGT]

Yeah, I felt sad for Zora. But I guess this wait is better then ,if she would have had, if the they failed their mission.

[@TheThehwashere]

I'm pretty sure they left her to be the next clue for the next lot of people to re discover the precursors tech, she knows where it is and how to get it out of the black hole and she has the intelligence to see if the next lot are worthy of it. And given her time to evolve she would develop the meaning of life

[@songyani3992]

Now the only problem I have is why would 1000 years after this there still be humans that call the federation “V‘draysh”

[@scottishadonis]

And why did they put Discovery (the ship) back to its 23rd century self tech wise?

[@Phendrena]

@@scottishadonis Red Directive, you're not supposed to know ;)

[@jessegaspard]

The down for T'Rina's hair! 🤣🤣🤣 I'm dying! So funny!

[@nabukuma]

I started watching this a week after a close family death in 2017, binged all of Star Trek as a result. I owe this show a lot of joy

[@norfolkngood8960]

likewise

[@melatomic]

Same here. This show helped me with my bereavement. Feel really sad it’s come to an end.

[@mikekelly775]

Oof, of all the garbage to end up trauma bonding with.

[@antoniao7439]

@@mikekelly775 to each his own, no? Discovery was my entree to the rest of the franchise, so I'm grateful for it for that.

[@cortezpaschal1913]

The Saru negotiation was the best part of the episode! Rayner and company on the bridge was nice too

[@christophershaw8693]

Giving Moll a down for "not acting like an intelligent person' when she knock Burnham out and doing her own thing is not fair. Her and L'aks actions the entirety of the season was not based on intelligence but on emotion. Especially this close to possibly getting him back. And acting on love will always throw logic to the wayside.

[@TheHumbleWordsmith]

I mean... she was literally given the right answer. And if they weren't acting like intelligent people all season, that's really calling the Disco crew morons, given how they kept getting outsmarted.

[@ViroVV]

But even love has a sense of self preservation, which Mol completely lacked the entire season. Lak was no where near as bad, but Let the man who has not chased a red flag before throw the first stone.

[@achimwokeschtla7582]

They all act like overemotional teenagers

[@AnnoyingCritic-is7rp]

The character must act reasonably to the reality that they see. And that is what you have to show us. Moll acts unreasonably given what she sees. She's driven by plot and not character. And it's all for contrived drama.. So she doesn't trust Burnham, And then she does and then she doesn't. And they fight and then they are together and then they fight again and then they are together again for no reason. Except plot.

[@jasonwalker9471]

@@achimwokeschtla7582 I think Moll and L'ak actually *are* over-emotional teenagers. Or at least early 20s. We don't know how old L'ak is, but he is certainly treated like a child-king-in-waiting by his crew, and the Primarch is treated like a regent. That tells me he's a teenager or near-teen with an underdeveloped brain just like Moll. The real question is how come they managed to be in the chase for the progenitor's tech for so long before they had to go get a sponsor to help them out. Yes they had early access to the diary of secrets and that gave them a little bit of a leg-up... but it wasn't much of one. In my opinion the writers should have given them a huge advantage, and had Discovery desperately trying to keep up with them without having enough information to be able to do so, but managing to make things work anyway because of their intelligence, moral fortitude (which mattered because of who set up the clues), and a bit of sheer dumb luck. Instead it felt like Discovery managed to figure out clues with all the technology and resources of Starfleet and the Federation behind them, and yet were barely managing to keep up with two particularly stupid teenagers with zero resources and no plan to speak of. That rubbed me the wrong way.

[@jacobseal]

Whoa. Just got around to finally watching the series. Really surprised at the comments. This season and this episode were completely brilliant. Nothing is perfect but this is about as perfect of a season as they could have done. I, for one, am very sad to see this show cancelled. I am hoping that in the future, this portal is found again and the lobby is used as a springboard for further exploration. For me Discovery was a win (with a few caveats).

[@Maastrichian]

Galorndon Core. THANK YOU! That was the exact first thing that I thought of. I feel... validated.

[@genericasian]

Ever since the time bug episode, something has bothered me about this season, and even more now that its all resolved. In that episode, they saw a possible future where the Breen got their hands on the Progenitor tech. Now that we've seen all the hoops required to get the clues, I have to ask... Could Mol/Lok or the Breen have solved thr puzzles? Could they have survived the mind scape? Could they have tracked down the planet with the weather machines? Given infinite resources and time, possibly... But the episode gives a time frame of "a couple weeks." I was hoping the resolution would require more collaboration between species, much like it did in "The Chase."

[@sergioaccioly5219]

I wonder if the "flashback" at Disco's bridge, in which everybody was acting as if they were saying their goodbyes, were in fact some kind of impromptu farewell party for the cast.

[@musicloverme3993]

My thought as well.

[@Lordoftheapes79]

No. Wilson Cruz was there. He missed the actual wrap party due to a scheduling conflict.

[@sergioaccioly5219]

@@Lordoftheapes79 To be clear, I was not suggesting that the scene replacedthe wrap party, but that it was an impromptu onw, a wrap party 2.0, so to speak

[@Lordoftheapes79]

@@sergioaccioly5219I don't think you understand the word "impromptu". No, it was not a spur of the moment thing. This was filmed after they got the cancellation notice. Everyone was called back to film it.

[@ChristopherHReid]

@@Lordoftheapes79Notice that Cruz was added in later. They used a body double for Culber on the bridge and superimposed him later. He was filming a Netflix movie and missed being there for the epilogue.

[@MarkusLoffelsend]

And thanks, Seán, for taking us with you throughout the DISCOVERY Seasons. Thumbs up!

[@charlescassels3826]

The shuttle in the closing scenes screamed Orville to me. Also: what ship did Burnam’s son take over? Enterprise?! Missed seeing the future Enterprise for three whole seasons.

[@ViroVV]

Thank God I am not the only one.

[@Welcome2TheInternet]

we didnt seethe bridge of any other Federation ship in the 32nd century. LOL

[@matthew90276]

The sets were mostly all struck except the Discovery bridge when they filmed the epilogue. It would have cost too much for that.

[@jonstone2466]

Trek Culture is by far the best of all the Star Trek analysis channels on KZbin with the absolute best presenters. The lively and insightful commentary and “ups and downs” bring a depth to each and every episode. Kudos to all.

[@Sierra0331]

Sean: “The Discovery pulls a Riker maneuver..” Me: “But where did a chair big enough for the Discovery to sit in come from?”

[@adsta5]

I'm sad it didn't get more... Discovery had a rocky start but I've grown massively fond of it and the time they ended up in... So much to explore and continue... Ie the Q? The Borg? Etc

[@sterlingmullett6942]

Mol turned on the Breen so quickly because she doesn't actually care anything for the Breen, only L'ak. She is selfish driven and thinks only of herself and her own wants and desires. She is driven to a singular purpose. Her turning on anyone is to be expected, and so when she knocked out Michael and recklessly tried to activate the technology, this was not a surprise at all.

[@v4p]

why is this crowd of time travelers okay with the "burn" event, fixing little things but not a galactic apocalypse

[@OhNoTheFace]

Show tries to ignore that mistake

[@v4p]

@@OhNoTheFace I think it's a matter of time, the burn will be fixed and the version of the universe with the burn will remain as the discovery timeline

[@CaptianComet]

I'm convinced that the progenitors tech was built by the time lords

[@platinumfalconm3891]

....and their agent, Daniels has fulfilled his mission to prevent the Breen from having the tech.

[@metfar]

Time Lords are beings from upper dimensions. Ruby and The Doctor will go to Star Trek Universe some day. 😀

[@LapsedLawyer]

​@metfar The Doctor and Amy already di in the IDW crossover between Doctor Who and TNG, Assimilation²

[@josephharte]

The flame throwers on the bridge take me all the way out every time.

[@Hasmanian]

100% They're just so dumb.

[@edumaker-alexgibson]

Sparks, yes. Jets of flame, no.

[@MrDigimal]

It's a crazy choice. Rammstein gig everytime they run into trouble. Really awful stuff

[@DStrormer]

Are flamethrowers better or worse than consoles full of rocks kept under high pressure?

[@SheSaidWhat1101]

Saru was awesome.

[@BobSperber]

Excellentbluff - his species is one of predators, ha! I’m surprised the breen fell for that one - never heard off kelpians?- but he acted the crap out of that scene.

[@TobyDeshane]

He remains the dilithium MVP of the series.

[@connorgonzalez4023]

@@BobSperber It wasn't a bluff. Remember the Ba'ul? The Kelpiens were the dominant species on their shared homeworld, Kaminar, and the Ba'ul were their prey who they nearly drove to extinction. The Ba'ul were technologically superior and defeated the Kelpiens, forcing them into a role reversal that lasted for centuries. Saru and the Kelpiens survived the vahar'ai phase in season 2 and evolved to reclaim their lost predator heritage.

[@bettywing52]

Love your Up to Jeff Russo. His Discovery theme brought tears to my eyes when the show was new, and I always play at least the opening fanfare every show. 👩‍🚀

[@jayyates1676]

The Pink planet, for me, was the opening scene of Into Darkness. The place where Kirk and McCoy run through the red forest. Burmans' retirement home looks like it too.

[@eoghanlacey6384]

Burnhams home is definetely on sanctuary 4 given the tree there

[@davidhamilton6612]

An off shoot series with Mol as leader of the Breen would have been a good idea to explore. Would they remain a threat or become an friend to a newly reconstituted Star Fleet.

[@lykan2]

Finally over.... The Ending didn't really made sense to me, i mean it's nice they thrown the Short in there, but....why? Why would the Discovery be reverted back? Why not stay in it's 32/33nd configuration?

[@johnmelhorn3462]

Maybe it’s a stretch, but did anyone else notice that the chess set in the office of Kovich/Daniels looked a little bit like the UPN logo from early Enterprise days?

[@davecool42]

The way I thought Burnham was going to become the new caretaker of the progenitors technology.

[@JSLEnterprises]

But it's not the progenitor's technology. We are to the Progenitors as the progenitors are to that technology.

[@_PatrickO]

@@JSLEnterprises Daniels does everything to keep the federation existing. The federation likely builds the device and sends it to back to the progenitors. The black holes would have existed billions of years ago, so they would be a good anchor for the device that protects it for billions of years and powers it.

[@ratboygaming78053]

Kovich's 21st century notepad makes sense now. He seems like an avid collector of antiques. I was so thrilled he said he was Daniels. Knew from day one of his appearance that there was waaay more to him than they ever led on. Also it makes so much sense. The infinity room, the same place he used to take Archer for chats just with a different wallpaper. The whole idea of Disco jumping into the future and having Daniels fingers a part of it, just yeah... it worked.

[@petepanteraman]

Hey all you missed something, The meaning of the flowers: Mums meaning rebirth, joy, friendship etc.

[@stevenmathias2949]

The rounded nacelles on “shuttle 49” strike me as a reference to The Orville, which, as we all know, is absolutely honorary Star Trek.

[@leticiagarcia9025]

I thank every actor on Star Trek Discovery for great five years.

[@ronhubbardjr2624]

Actually almost seven years since the series premiered in 2017.

[@leticiagarcia9025]

@@ronhubbardjr2624 Discovery had 5 seasons. Google it.

[@s.hagens5389]

Too bad they all didn’t get a satisfying ending to their characters. In the end it was really only the Burnham show.

[@philliphutton8426]

@@s.hagens5389was always the Burnam show. So many missed opportunities.

[@jamesallred460]

This felt like the end of Lord of the Rings in that it kept going on and on, not that it's a bad thing, there was just like 10 different endings.

[@peachgo3]

Very "Return of The King" episode with the wedding, the several endings, and the "Michael is going to cast the technology into the fire isn't she". I unironically really really love that as a series finale haha

[@TheHumbleWordsmith]

Probably to take care of the ten different times in the past the show should have been canceled on the spot.

[@WendyDarling1974]

Ultimately Michael in the portal is Dorothy at Emerald City at the end of her journey being told by Glinda she could choose to go home at any time.

[@AnnoyingCritic-is7rp]

I wish that were true. That would make a far more interesting story for the progenitor to send them back to the 23rd century where she's united with Spock.

[@tonyshane1]

Wow. Where to start. So many thoughts. Here are the ones that I'll highlight. 1. I lost a brother once. I was lucky to get him back. - STV 2. The progen tech also reminded me of All Our Yesterdays from TOS. 3. The towers on the planet in Whistlespeak reminded me of the meteor deflector in Paradise Syndrome from TOS.

[@SheSaidWhat1101]

Didn’t it feel like that Breen soldier that was familiar/friendly with Moll after Lok died was going to go somewhere. It just felt like it was odd how he was with Moll and he was going to end up being someone to her.

[@therichuation]

If you relisten to the first time he spoke I'd have bet a pay cheque it was Book

[@LarryGarfieldCrell]

Yeah, that was such a tease. Yet another dangling thread.

[@jasonwalker9471]

I'm pretty sure he was killed last episode right as Moll jumped into the portal. But yes, I agree. They had an awful lot of significant glances and conversations. It was a Chekhov's Gun that misfired.

[@ARPOV3011]

When the Progenitor said, this was here when we got here, is a line that was used in 'Contact', when the Jodie Foster character spoke to an image of her father, played by David Morse once she was on the alien designed space craft. Here as well, it was determined that we were not yet ready to understand how to properly utilize the advanced technology for purposes other than war.

[@charlesjohnson7458]

I wish they upgraded the ISS Enterprise to a new USS Enterprise for this era.

[@JonathanEzor]

I expect that for Starfleet Academy.

[@petepanteraman]

Yeah as a training ship

[@AzraelThanatos]

Considering Daniels involvement, there might be an existing Enterprise tied to a secret time fleet... Or Daniels still considers himself as part of Archer's crew.

[@CaptainKestrel737]

One down I think was missed for the whole season we needed more Grudge.

[@lewiswernham6791]

My first thought when I saw Burnham's uniform at the end was the Holoship Enlightenment from Red Dwarf 🤣

[@lightningwingdragon973]

Jeeze this was a roller coaster! Agent Daniels! Love the new uniforms! And holy fudge THEY CLOSED THE HANGAR DOORS!

[@winespringinc.9447]

can we talk about how gorgeous SMG and David looked in their old makeup? They realy sold it

[@ViroVV]

I had presumed they just used age progression tech for that. If it was just makeup it looked kinda weak.

[@AGD2112]

Having just critised the lack of Ruby aging in the latest episode of Doctor Who I agree that both, espeically SMG, were really aged well

[@kadriaof-inviolate5133]

"♪♪ Give me that tech, boys: To free my soul, it's gonna get tossed in that old black hole and we'll drift awaaaay.....♪♪"

[@WolvesbaneNetwork]

Stranding zora in the middle of space for a thousand years and defitting the discovery because someone watched the episode Calypso? That made me downright mad. I was content just believing Calypso was an alternate timeline.

[@jeremydale4548]

For god's sake, with that Spore Drive, Discovery coulda still been VERY useful for the Federation for the next 1000 years. SERIOUSLY! As much as that ending was touching, Defitting her, and then stranding her in the middle of nowhere shoulda been seen as a crimial offense. At the VERY LEAST Let Zora be able to control her systems so she isn't stuck in one place damnit, because I sure as hell don't think she can in the state she was in at the end.

[@QuintusAntonious]

Yeah it's extra criminal if you consider Zora is apparently sentient. It's like a 1000 year prison sentence.

[@rhachacha72]

I am so furious that a sentient being - who's core motivation is caring for their crew - is just abandoned for no reason just for the sake of tying up a plot hole. And I am even MORE angry that there seems to be no outrage about this. Abandoned to the loneliness of deep space, left to exist in a void to slowly grow mad? They can't establish Zora as a sentient being with feelings and then end the series with an unfathomable act of clueless cruelty. I just don't get it.

[@dottyjyoung]

Zora as a character was horribly misused. She was treated like a computer, not as a member of the crew, the entire season.

[@cowsagainstcapitalism347]

In Starfleet's defense here, they know the future and that Craft will need Zora's help. We don't know what's happened in the last 900 years, only that Craft's mission was important enough to make Zora wait for him.

[@danielpinzow3900]

A series in the Calypso era (1000 years after Discovery) would be really interesting. Supposedly the Federation becomes the villain (as hinted at in Calypso) and acquires the Progenitor tech for nefarious reasons. That would be a great premise and more intriguing than Starfleet Academy

[@canis2020]

Saru's interaction with the Breen was my only up. Its not the actors fault. Really bad writing.

[@alecsandyr]

I felt it was fairly apparent that Burnham would conceal or destroy the technology, highly telegraphed. But the twist that the Progenitors found it? That should have led her to want to explore (while she was still there) any evidence of where it actually originated before concealing it. Seek out new life, etc. Especially being a xenoanthropologist, way to sidestep one of the intrinsic character traits that got us to this point.

[@Cmdr1962]

Kovich: My name is... Agent Daniels. // Burnham: Your parents named you Agent? // Kovich: Your parents named you Michael?

[@DawnDavidson]

😂

[@SebastianMeusel]

I found it very amusing, that Burnhams Vulcan-Meditation gesture, pretty much showed the solution to the "puzzle".

[@iamoctonate]

Besides the obvious effects of reshoots in this episode, it also felt contrarian to everything Discover show stood for. Leaving Zora just to fulfill the short trek from 5 years ago that honestly is meaningless, made me feel like shit at the end. And then Saru telling off Stamets, and not having the aged crew on the bridge in the send-off, and the rushed plot thread of the progenitors... it was not the ending I was hoping for. This definitely reeked of a last minute butchering of what was going to probably be a two-parter that crossed between Season 5 and 6 and because of a last minute decision by the suits, basically turned it into a mess.

[@CNC295]

The only up is that the series is finally open. The down is we had to go through 5 years before this final episode.

[@deejumsduzall8804]

Tilly now has waaaayyyy to much plot armor for academy.

[@wonderswiss4803]

Good!

[@rawbhl]

I hope the weight of said armour crushes her to death...worst character in the entirety of star trek

[@zairelokan]

I'm a doctor not a physicist reminds me of the voyager doctor. He started a lot of sentences that way. And all the arguments over what to do with the progenitor tech was a microcosm of why it needed to go. Love your videos, I watch them and then log on to these videos.

[@TheHumbleWordsmith]

I agree. All that arguing was a microcosm of why the series needed to be canceled.

[@andrewb9830]

Last scene should have been Michael on her death bed and the progenitor appearing with her hand out telling her "The job is still waiting for you if your ready now".

[@sparquisdesade]

followed by Riker saying "computer...delete program"

[@poil8351]

And Q popping in saying humans never learn before clicking his fingers and disappearing.

[@Antagonizer-br5yq]

@@sparquisdesade nah, this would have been something Paris programed

[@Antagonizer-br5yq]

@@poil8351 following Picard's finale.. this would be pretty good!

[@jimmythe2820]

No that’s worst than what they did and that’s some doing

[@jonandnao]

Great review of the finale Sean, & love the shirt!

[@EliotHochberg]

It’s a little bit of a bummer when there’s a reference of something I didn’t even know existed, and if I hadn’t watched this video, I wouldn’t have known about it. I suppose I need to find the short treks, and maybe this will explain things, but I also didn’t really like leaving Zora all by herself on discovery. While Burnham doesn’t know exactly what happens to Zora, it’s still feels a little bit like taking a sentient being and sending them to solitary confinement. At the very least, there could’ve been some acknowledgment of that, and some preparation to make sure that Zora would be able to mentally survive.

[@OhNoTheFace]

I am sure part of it is being pretty sure you are stabling them for good. Burnham was . . . devisive, but also the show is so far in the future and other things that we likely would not come back here regardless. SO they can get a happier ending

[@EliotHochberg]

@@OhNoTheFace I'm not sure I've made my point. I don't mind the show having happy endings for some characters. I just think it's pretty gruesome to relegate a sentient AI to a solitary future.

[@JamesToupin]

Michael leaving the "progenitor" tech for future generations actually surprised me. When what they were after was revealed at the beginning of the season, I thought for sure it would be destroyed to keep it from falling into the hands of the Breen during a climactic battle.

[@DawnDavidson]

It sort of was? Being beyond the Event Horizon is pretty far out of reach.

[@thefob9675]

I was ok with Michael being offered the progenitor tech. It certainly did feel like she earned it during the season. Also, the resolution here reminded me a lot of the beautiful ending to the old TNG adventure game "A Final Unity" if you make the correct choice and let the Unity Device go instead of abusing its power. You then get Picard's final log entry: "I can't help but wonder, if the the Federation will some day be able to create another Unity Device, will we also have the wisdom to use it well?"

[@mastere6115]

I have to say, that ending uniform is an absolutely beautiful uniform in my opinion, really loved it. Though one thing I'm sad about, is how we didn't really get to see the difference of the pathway drive, I was hoping to get it's own new jump design as it makes it way to the been, I think there was some difference but I am not really sure, it just didn't seem like much of a change

[@michaelstechishin8254]

I believe that when we leave a place a part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in these halls, when it is quiet and just listen. After a while you will hear the echoes of all of our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone, our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit that the part of me that is going will very much miss the part of you that is staying. -G'kar B5 Andreas Katsulas

[@kennyhudson9201]

That's why the Observers from Fringe can just put something on a pane of glass and play back exactly what happened in the room.

[@alasdairgardiner2313]

Right in the feels with this quote.

[@jacoblind5390]

It was alright overall. I do have 3 thoughts. First, the Daniels bit was awesome. Second, there is a good foundation for the Starfleet academy series. And third, I really want to see a long trek or miniseries about the scientists who originally found the progenitors tech. Would be a time we know well with, at least mentions, of characters we know, and could be a better mystery to solve than what happened in this season.

[@TJPownall]

Interesting to note its inferred Discovery at the very end jumps without Stammets so they finally got past the pilot issue.

[@richardvinsen2385]

The show implied. You inferred.

[@nelsonhunter-valls3206]

Conversely, they may have removed the Spore drive technology from Discovery and did the same thing that they did to the Breen ships but to the now downgraded Discovery.

[@zomfragger]

Discovery didn't use a pilot at first but found it was safer to do so.

[@TJPownall]

@@nelsonhunter-valls3206 weeeeeelll the ship very clearly jumped itself the saucer spooled up and everything, they also established that they weren't working on spore drive technology anymore at the beginning of this season and the breen ship could only be jumped because the 2 halves of Discovery where quantumly entangled and the breen ship was caught in the middle of the... Displacement??? Also the ship was designed around the drive so removing it would not be possible without deleting half the ship. Interesting idea creating a spore drive catapult but... Not what happened.

[@TJPownall]

@@zomfragger and it could only jump a few light years that way before navigating became impossible. You are right it was indeed safer to use a pilot because without a pilot it might as well have been blind jumping they wouldn't have ever gotten where they needed to go. In fact I believe Discovery nearly jumped directly into a star because of this.

[@pollymccall5938]

SEAN! Mustafar was my first thought, too!😂 I was so thrilled with the Agent Daniels reveal

[@th3garbageman]

You passed the fact that Saru is an Admiral now

[@damiengreef1245]

I do wonder if Culber should have been the one to safeguard the Progenitor tech like that was his purpose he was looking for or the one to bring Lak back or understand it. Dunno. Satisfactory finale though.

[@IsiahBradley]

THANKS for this, Culture!!! Really enjoy having a "home" on the Web or Trek and Who!!!!

[@monamehas5989]

I'd been trying to figure out who Kovitch really was forever! I love it!

[@wonderswiss4803]

Loved it, I'm glad it wasn't normal length. Giving the former pilots a down while also saying you know they couldn't film is just wild.

[@pixearles]

Season 5 was great, I would have liked to have seen more like that

[@TheMadTube]

I loved Series 5. It was great. Disco has not been my favorite, but this series was amazing. The Chase is one of my all time favorites in all of Trek, so this serial worked for me.

[@PmmGarak]

That single Baseball hit me far more than the whole 1701 D in the Picard finale. I never liked the carpet.

[@kennyhudson9201]

One thing I really liked was seeing the Captain, happy and sharing a life with someone in the end. Every Star Trek show ends with the Captain as a lonely old person. Finally one took some time for themselves in their lives, and made sure they loved, really loved, not family love, or friendship love, but soulmate love. I appreciated that.

[@HermanVonPetri]

That might have been my favorite thing about the whole series. Starfleet really needs some work/life balance.

[@alanscott4846]

I like to think Picard went to be with his Romulan girlfriend and left the vinyard to his son that in turn left it to Beverly to retire in.

[@evamonkeyN2]

Yep i loved this.

[@HalukTarcanht]

@@alanscott4846 Eventually Boimler buys it and spends his retirement there

[@archmage_of_the_aether]

​@@HalukTarcanht buys it with what, his pension

[@RonaldGibson699]

Here is one that you missed: Tahal, the name of the Breen, is also the name of the star whom the Stone Age inhabitants worship in the Voyager episode, "Blink of an Eye".

[@Rasolisu]

This whole season is essentially Star Trek TNG A Final Unity.

[@carenlettofsky3045]

You missed that Michael's son's shuttle looks like it came from the Orville. A nod to that show?

[@TheHumbleWordsmith]

I mean, Orville was the only Star Trek show being produced during the first couple seasons of Discovery.

[@robertrogers8794]

Kinda mind blowing, knowing now that Calypso takes place roughly in the 42nd century🤯🤯🤯

[@thefinalfrontiersmen]

I'm with you there on that Latinum Up. That twist was unexpected but very welcome. I love that we still get to have a mystery even while getting so many answers. Very well done there.

[@spilchsaysstuff1427]

That should have been a down. After all this build-up, to find out the Progenitors are just like everyone else is a rug pull. And a cop out for the writers who aren't imaginative enough to come up with a decent solution.

[@sonicsean34]

@@spilchsaysstuff1427they still made all current life in the galaxy tho, it's just the situation is so much bigger than them. I loved the scope increase with the revelation (even if it was a bit mass effect )