Trekyards EP107 - USS Vengeance (Part 2)

[@SLDFSpectreSix]

In Star Trek Online, you can get the Vengeance, slap the Constitution hull material on, it cloaks, and it's got a hangar bay slot for Kelvin Timeline Assault Drones. Also, one of the hull materials makes the bussard collectors red. I personally love the ship. It takes on tactical cubes and eats them for breakfast.

[@Sorain1]

Gonna be honest, I love the Vengeance in STO. It's everything it ought to be, a massive lumbering killing machine first and foremost. But stupidly versatile, it can mount cannons, it can cloak, it has strike craft, it's built in console is broadside bolt spam that can vaporize strike craft/torpedoes or beat up on ships easily, it's got Intel scanning ability to cripple a target and it has a solid trait on top of that. For it's size it has shockingly good maneuvering. The only parts that disappoint me are the lack of the torpedo turret thing (seriously, that would have been interesting) and the 'interior' being literally a single room with no officers on it at all. The fitting I've set up for it is wall to wall phasors (a spread of types from the kelven ones through agony, classic blue and pulse) with a single Kelven torpedo launcher. (because rapid fire is useful to me on throwing out high yield torps) The basic idea of 'project an insane amount of fleet power for the crew used' makes me a happy RPer.

[@Stronghand-yw1lk]

Sorain1 I like the way you think on armaments. I have an Atlas class prototype dreadnaught that I have decked out in various disruptor arrays from nanite, Krieger wave, plasma-disruptor hybrids and a full 3-piece Nausican set.

[@josephtremel5392]

Just got my vengeance in sto and you are spot on. Nothing better than just jumping into the fray with all my weapons firing and watching them explode. It feels very powerful.

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

I have my own idea for why the saucer is that big. I do like the carrier idea, but what if that IS living space. I know the ship CAN be operated by one person if needed, but what if it is living space for troops. If you are going to war, you need more than just a navy. In the Dominion War, we did see ground combat still occurring for control of planets, why not here. I know the ship is meant to be a battleship, but it would be fairly efficient to carry ground forces as well, with the proper training they could double up as damage control parties in space combat and serve to repel boarders. It makes sense to me and would keep some of the Federation ethic of not going for orbital bombardment.

[@epoc252]

The hole is shaped like a 'v' for vengeance.

[@Dumplin42]

I like everything about the USS Vengeance for what it was. The way I look at it, the design was influenced by Khan and the weapons and tactics he helped to develop. Built to be stealthy, menacing and deploy large amounts of damage. Imagine if he transported to the USS Vengeance instead of the Klingon homeworld. How different the movie would have been.

[@telecleez]

I personally liked the Vengeance and I think you are right about it being not just a Dreadnought but also a Carrier cuz they launched it before it was fully out fitted and manned so it could have carried a huge amount of fighters/combat shuttles. Also the Vengeance was in response to both the Narada and the impending (as the Admiral saw it) Klingon war so yeah it was an over compensation for the perceived threat. And as for Khan he was a super genius with an eidetic memory so he could have learned the tech of that century and come up with new tech from that point (as said in the story line).

[@Stronghand-yw1lk]

Brian I agree. This ship, the Prometheus class and Yamato dreadnaughts are probably my top 3 favorites out of the entire star trek franchise.

[@LionMerteuil]

Why does nobody get that this ship was basically a space Man-O-War? Giant, armed to the teeth, and a savage broadside arc.

[@NaD-o2p]

What everyone seems to forget is that this thing was designed to fight Klingons. If you keep that in mind all the time when thinking about this ship it begins to make a lot more sense. Personally I see the 'exposed' bridge as being a statement to the Klingons, like a "we're not afraid of you, give us what you've got, we can take it" kind of attitude. We forget that this was Admiral Marcus' ship and he practically CRAVED war with the Klingons. Having a massive, deadly ship that is also quite stealth-like with an exposed bridge could be a way to attempt to inject the Klingons with fear because it suggests that those onboard aren't afraid of the Klingons and that they (starfleet) can out-do them. I see this ship as a 'cold war design' or a 'space race design' meaning that both sides are getting carried away with their motives and constantly trying to out-do each other. The Klingons wouldn't expect the puny starfleet to arrive in glorious battle with such a humongous and deadly ship. This thing really is the flag-ship and yes I agree that it could be a carrier. Obviously all the exposed parts would be way more protected than it would seem but the Klingons wouldn't know that. It's fighting a war with guns and psychology and personally I think it works :)

[@n0_XcusZ]

I think they were saying that the technology wasn’t there in this time period to build a ship of that size. The Enterprise B wasn’t even build yet and that ship was supposed to be the largest Federation ship at release. At least in the older movies. In the J.J. verse however technology is a lot more advanced. Hack the Enterprise even look like it was built by a extraterrestrial. The ones with the small head, large eyes, and skinny body

[@willvincitran]

The bridge section is another ship itself.

[@on1yadam]

I think the hole in the saucer section isn't a bad idea. It for starts makes the bridge a harder target to hit, projectile weapons such as torpedoes may pass through , and it reduces collateral damage to the command center.

[@winkles2314]

That aft nacelle line had me facepalming. The KHAAAAAAAAAAN had me double facepalming.

[@FLAME456X]

Yea my thoughts exactly. At first when i heard that myself from Khan I was like what the hell? Its as if he knew the nacelles on the JJ Prise were 2 nacelles in 1 xD. Correct me if im wrong on that xD.

[@biostemm]

It would have been kind of interesting if the Vengeance was built around some piece of the Narada that escaped the wormhole/implosion from the first movie...

[@ratz9951]

love your vids guys but this one kills me, vengeance is one of the few ships i like in star trek. you jumped on its size but didn't apply the logic behind why. its because of the time period not in spite of it. khan was asked to build a battleship not a wimpy ass ship like all the other ships in the fleet. so you start with weapons, here's what it will take to kill a fleet of kingons. now build a ship around them. he had to make it big because of the tech of the day which was limited. the ships would get smaller and smaller as the tech got better and they could do the same or more with less. think cell phones. why you guys never thought of that surprised me. i can go on and on with this but that is the biggest thing. its big because it had to to serve its purpose with the limited tech of the era

[@donaldhill3823]

reasonable..... that would mean the other wise empty saucer is stuffed full of weapons which would make sense or assault troops which would not be counted as part of the crew.......

[@TannerRawlings]

13:37 it is an artist's rendition of alcubiere drive warp drive, as far as the enterprise going sideways, the vengeance is right there, it is sharing the warp field with the vengeance, it also explains why kirk, thought he'd be safe at warp, not because of speed (he was already told of the speed) but because he (and most others at the time) did not believe it to be possible for two ships to share a warp bubble or for one to enter that of another ship, also it is not a corridor, as you can see it tapers close at the back (sure one may argue that is due to distance but i say that is the bubble closing) and any twist and turns could be 1. steering of the bubble to change course 2. instabilities that the ship deals with, so yeas, the enterprise could go sideways assuming there is another ship in the bubble, if there wasnt the bubble would collapse, and seeing the corridor is correct, as according to an alcubiere type warp drive, you're riding an isolated pocket of space-time and therefore would not be able to see out of it, as far as those who are outside? they would see nothing (unless they had sensors to detect subspace ripples/disturbances)

[@MrStehooper]

Jeez. Give a guy a year with KSP and they think they're Geordi LaForge. Your entire post is speculation based upon a small slither of theoretical physics and a heaped teaspoon of ST science. Subspace ripples?

[@TannerRawlings]

Stephen James Hooper you have to use the science of the sci-fi world you are talking in, from a star trek perspective it would work, that is all it was, also i've been playing ksp for 5 years now :), also the slither of theoretical physics? sure alcubiere drive is thought to melt anything inside the bubble into 9000+ kelvin due to hawking radiation so it wont be possible, but again, talking about sci-fi physics (which means science-FICTION) from inside the world of star trek, also no where did i state that the star trek physics was correct, all that was stated was based on the lore of star trek and the current understanding of such systems

[@stanimirgeorgiev8596]

But in previous Trek we have seen warp battles and it was not something unusual. And in those battles the ships didn't have to share a warp bubble in order to fight. I really like your theory, but it isn't thoroughly explained in the movie and also exiting the bubble like we saw would cause the ship to tear apart, because the parts that exit first would slow to sub-light speeds and the ones that are still in the bubble are at warp.

[@TannerRawlings]

Stanimir Georgiev fuck....

[@stanimirgeorgiev8596]

TannerRawlings =D

[@leonnobles545]

She's a beau I'll take forty of them.

[@The_Lucent_Archangel]

Behind the curve here, but the bright blue effect was used a few times in DS9, namely on the viewscreen when ships were jumping to warp. It did fade back to the moving starfield after a few seconds, but the cosmetics are vaguely similar. Also, Cherenkov Radiation (related to superluminal speeds) is typically presented as producing that sort of hue.

[@tsambkos]

I love trek yards please keep up the amazing work and I totally agree about the Vengeance

[@XiahouDun1225]

That bridge looks like it could separate. It could have also acted as a ship meant for a full scale planetary invasion in the event of total war. Also I think the phaser "cannons" were meant to be closer to the TOS style phasers, see the Miranda. And that broadside emitter array is...Well I like it because I like naval warfare. Also damn intimidating.

[@momentumblack]

The review forgets one aspect of the ship...it was designed by KHANNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!! Yes it is JJ (No reference to Good Times, please), but it's meant to be so different from anything ever seen in all the Star Trek universe. It was designed by a maniac with an actual superiority complex. The fact that it could be piloted by a crew of one isn't bad, when that crew is Khan. If the events of Into Darkness hadn't happened, I believe Khan would have hijacked the ship, taken his crew back and laid waste to the federation.

[@larrynorton1748]

This weekend I went to Space City Comc Con in Houston. Got the model and in person the ship does better. Thoughts now looking at it. 1) If you were going to go after the Klingons you have to be able to cloak (that was to be installed on Thursday). If you wanted to cloak this huge baby maybe to hole in the saucer section was necessary. The thing is if they would have de-cloaked in front of the Enterprise, they could have said it was there to make the cloak move effective. 2) Maybe the hole allows better control of see beneath the ship? 3) in the collection information the came with the models show a lot of early sketches. They really wanted holes in the saucer section. There are sketches just like the fan art you s at the end of the piece. 4) They could have said they were using a phasing cloak and the open section is set phased Anyway love you shows, Thank

[@shinjofox]

The Fan design with the bigger hole looks like the NEAS Protector from Galaxy quest backwards if you remove the nacelles.

[@The_Warrior526]

Remember that two huge cannons of some sort extended below the saucer in those larger sections near the "V" but never fired.

[@CLAIR.L]

I really appreciate the unbiased opinions on these controversial ships trekyards gives

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

Towards the end of _Into Darkness_ when Khan jumped out from the _Vengeance_'s bridge and slid down the hull, I don't recall seeing any big hole in the center, otherwise wouldn't he have fallen through?

[@GyorgyGezaMeszaros-l5i]

If the lights around the inside of the saucer cut out are indeed launch bays for attack craft, I believe the attack craft would have been based on the worker bees seen in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Armed with phasers, or photon torpedoes, or both, Starfleet might call the Killer Bees.

[@markplott4820]

RE : the Vengence exploding. To quote Mr Scott - "when that much matter and anti-matter come together........oh, yes ".

[@markplott4820]

HaHaHa.......cant get that tune out of my head........"there is a hole in the Saucer......Dear Liza Dear Liza"

[@For_The_Horde]

I think the put the bridge like that is to defend from boarding. This mean people can only come from one direction allowing defensive positions to be set up in advance because you know where they are coming from.

[@dropdead234]

The problem I see with this being a carrier, is that upon launch you'd have to pull a very high gee turn, or end up being a fighter o'death aimed at the command crew. But, if you put the fighter launch bays on the outside of the saucer, and the planetary assault shuttle dropbays on the inside....

[@charleshansen9099]

as a Carrier it would be awesome, is there any way to get more info on what the designer had in mind?

[@enterprise-h312]

+Charles Hansen Memory Alpha has an article on the Dreadnought-class, but it doesn't say anything about it being conceived to be a carrier or why there is a hole in the saucer. A shame really, I quite liked JJ's explanation as to why the Klingons in the JJ-universe wore helmets.

[@richardwatson289]

Personally my head-cannon explanation for gap is that the bridge section can detach as like a lifeboat if the ship is about to blow

[@Taorakis]

I make it short this time: If you want a Warship then go for the Defiant. Smallest that it can get, most powerful Weapons, powerful Engines, as manauverable as it gets, so it doesnt get hit if it's not flying straight. And if it does it loads tons of armor, even ablative one. The only reason, and i completely agree with you there, to make a big ship is to make it a carrier or because it wields some kind of Superweapon.

[@LokaOwl]

Actual valid reason for the hole in the saucer is pretty easy when you remember that abrams'verse ships have window veiw screens instead of cameras, so having the hole that wide given such a thick bridge section allows the captian to walk up to the window and look below the saucer, a good vantage point when commanding large fleets where you will have ships under you. Also given the personality of the man... Said view could also be so he can look down a gloat over the devistation the ship causes to a planets surface.

[@Riceball01]

Given that logic then why doesn't the Enterprise have a hole like that, because they can't see down below them. It just doesn't make sense, if they really needed to see below them I'm pretty certain that they have sensors that allow them to do so. If they really needed to see below them how hard would it be for them to place an observation deck right at the bottom of the saucer section with cameras that feed the view to the bridge? Not to mention, assuming that the bridge doesn't take up the entire width and length of the center section, then how is the captain going to look down given how thick it is? Even if the bridge runs all the way to the front and sides, there's still no way that the captain will be able to see anything except the other side of the saucer section without having to get out of his seat and walk to the front or either side of the bridge to see anything.

[@LokaOwl]

>

[@LokaOwl]

Riceball01 You forgot to take into account that the abrams enterprised DOES have an observation dome on the bottom of the saucer. where the lower sensor dome used to be. And I never said it was practical, just was probably the logic thinking behind it... sort of the same logic behind "why have a seperate engineering hull in the first place?" Also the idea behind gloating over is walking up to the view screen and looking down, not sitting and looking forward. You need to remember that the abramsverse seems to rather fond of having an actual window into space on the bridge rather then a screen.

[@sarodorethedragon9865]

@@Riceball01 its a warship/ command vessel, Visibility and situational awareness is KEY in controlling fleets, there is a reason real life battleships IJN Yamato, KMS Bismarck, USS Iowa, HMS Hood (to name a few) have large windowed bridge sections and large towers with optics on top of them, even aircraft carries have this because they need to see whats going on. in a warship in space it would be ideal to have a bridge like this. VS an exploration vessel like Enterprise which is not going to be commanding a fleet much less more then the flight deck worth in shuttles at one time. Thus because enterprise does not need to command a fleet it does not need the same visibility for her operators.

[@marvelboy74]

"big target" I totally agree. I see no tactical advantage to the cut-out section because the field geometry would be flat across the hull, meaning nothing would get through the cut out while the shields were up. And in fact, I would imagine you would have greater issues with structural integrity due to the lack of bulkheads.

[@RetroBerner]

Are you guys planning on getting anybody from Industrial Light & Magic like Bruce Holcomb in on the actual episode? I don't know how extensive your guys' contacts are, but that would be sweet.

[@fernandogarcia852]

I like it! I remember seeing it for the first time thinking now that's a dreadnought. The best part is it didn't have a silly third nacelle like the D in the final episode or the TOS one. when I saw those and was told those were dreadnouts I thought that they were just silly looking. But this this looks like a dreadnought.

[@eXcommunicate1979]

Why are the nacelle pylons on all of the JJ ships always crooked in some way?

[@willstikken5619]

The gap in the center of the saucer is due to them using windows instead of view screens. it's meant to give the bridge a better field of view. I really get irritated by the issues in the JJ verse but I watched this episode because i wanted to see if there were any redeeming qualitative.

[@Thorndac1]

My big sci fy guess, The hole helps form the hi-speed warp bubble?

[@MessalineApghar]

the donut hole around the bridge is simple to explain... 1 - any hits on the primary dish near the bridge, if it was a solid dish, could explode farther and damage or destroy the bridge 2 - it's harder to Target the small flying bridge ..anything that would impact the dish near the bridge would just fly thru

[@chuchuchip]

Why was the P-38 designed with 2 booms to hold the tailplane? The designer designed it that way.

[@calebhorn9671]

i think the bridge is set up that way as a defensive measure. there's really only one direction a boarding party can attack from.

[@kevinwestrom4775]

Hi, i very much enjoyed the episode part 2 on the USS Vengeance. That said, i very much would have liked for you guys to address the existence of that cannon that was used to fire on the Enterprise and disable its shields. For a starship to have such a massive cannon that swiveled instead of being integrated into the ship design itself, seems to be very unusual in the Star Trek universe. Overall, however i definitely still liked the episode.

[@KertaDrake]

It always seemed more like the whole corridor look to warp was just what the inside of a warp bubble looks like due to all the particles getting deflected around it at such high speeds that it imparts ridiculous amounts of energy to create a light show, and the warp-combat came about through the Vengeance getting inside the Enterprise's warp bubble through advanced tech to fire upon it.

[@SumDumGy]

No

[@sarodorethedragon9865]

the hole in the saucer could be serving as an observation deck, it doesnt match up with where the bridge and the windows we see in said bridge are, if you ask me, the "bridge" everyone is complaining about is provably more likely some kind of battle observation point where crew or some kind of advanced sensory equipment can observe both above and below the ship. So there IS a tactical advantage for this if the ship is serving as an operation command ship.

[@ROBBEAUDOIN66]

Maybe my favourite fed ship, shes big, armored and armed to the teeth. I wish we could see more of it in combat scenes.

[@isfj1009]

How do you fire phasers at Warp speeds?

[@NovaScotiaNewfie]

I'd like to see a scale comparison of the Vengeance and the Excalibur class.

[@colleenjin8794]

The problem with the warp scene is not just the enterprise falling sideways. In the previous movies you can only Fire torpedo in warp, but somehow in JJ verse you can fire phasers

[@wierdalien1]

QIHONG JIN pre TMP you could fire phasers in warp

[@enterprise-h312]

3:52 That shot looks so wrong. 12:45: The best fan theory that I have read so far is that it is actually reverse-engineered quantum slipstream. Which consequently also would explain why they reach Qo'Nos so quickly in the JJ-verse.

[@ejungleska]

+Enterprise-H - Where would did they get access to quantum slipstream tech? And how could pre-TOS engineers have a better understanding of it to use it than the crew (with the help of 7 of 9) on Voyager? - As for getting to Kronos, even TNG messes that up where they seem to travel great distances so fast.

[@enterprise-h312]

+Arthur Withheld -The fan theory suggests it is reverse-engineered technology from the Narada. Alternatively Spock Prime could also have shared the technology as he did with transwarp beaming because he has post-Voyager knowledge. -Well yes, but while quantum slipstream involves a visual corridor effect of sorts warp in TOS does not.

[@botfan78]

EXACTLY my idea about the slipstream. How else did they reach Vulcan in 3 - 30 minutes?

[@SumDumGy]

That still doesn't work

[@Galvars]

I said that before and I say it again, I like it. Pity that it was not more as the concept. For me it was the most awesome looking ship in JJ'verse and I would like to use it in STO (scaled down of course).

[@MrMartechi]

+Galvars In STO...maybe the tholians could pull that thing threw a timespace rift or something and it'd be refitted with "modern" starfleet tech...yeah, I cann see that working. Especially with some interchangable modules like STO often has. One with a solid saucer maybe, or a non-stealth version that has other hull plating... I have to agree, I'd like to see that.

[@Galvars]

+MrMartechi Right? It's just a very good looking ship ( minus all those idiotic things like "torpedo turret" or what the hell it was) and it would be nice to see it in game. For sure it have that sell potential.

[@MrMartechi]

Galvars Yes! And the scale in STO is a little bit closer to this ship anyway. In an STO scenario, I find it much easier to justify the federation building a ship like this than in the actual movie scenario. Hell, I'd even accept them filling that hole in the hull with a giant arboretum and calling it an experimental science and terraforming vessel or something. Quite franky, I'd just like to see this vessel in any kind of better use. it just seems wasteful to me to only crash this model into san francisco once and call it a day

[@Galvars]

MrMartechi Indeed, it would be a shame to just throw away that design. And there are already the huge Command Battlecruisers at Tier 6 so there is a place for some big SoB in game.

[@FLAME456X]

+MrMartechi true but the only way I see it is that either this ship would be more in the Tier7 or Tier6 range or as one of them Special Requisition packs.

[@panamera11]

As much as I don't like this ship. My theory on the bridge hole is that the bridge and a good chunk of the area behind it could possibly disconnect and become a small ship itself, maybe even become a remote command module for the rest of the vessel.

[@aaronmilline8608]

I love this ship looks powerful and it is powerful

[@kenju2268]

Just one thought I had about the opening of the saucer. I dislike the ship for the most part, but in terms of function could those how they cool the weapons maybe? If you are able to cool the weapons in a way that doesn't require an actual internal cooling system, that gives you room to put much larger phaser coils. Remember the Defiant how it had those massive coils that were prone to overheating? This could be how to get around that, plus it would in a small way perhaps help reduce the heat signature of the ship similar to the stealth system of the Normandy from Mass Effect.

[@johnriches80]

You know I never thought considered the possibility of it carrying fighters in the saucer section. Makes sense now. But still the sizing is pretty damn ridiculous.

[@markfields6797]

as enterprise is being attacked and falls out of warp wouldnt it collide with the Vengeance.

[@FLAME456X]

+Mark Fields probbly not. I mean the Vengeance was actualy firing at a safe distance that was far enough away that when the Enterprise did fall out of warp they made sure that it wouldent collide. I mean if it did then it would bounce of any active Deflector shields. That is if they had the iron balls to even feature FXs for Deflector Shields.

[@PeyoteIguana]

I think the saucer has a hole in it so they can physically see what's below them.

[@Kiyosuki]

You know it's silly but I really like this ship. It does like you guys said, feature a number of things that are actually really smart design decisions like a protective covering for the Deflector that closes, and the overall no nonsense meaty look of the neck and secondary hull. I'm not too partical to the donut hole either, but when I first saw the movie I thought the bridge was situated in a well fortified "dip" in the middle of the saucer...answering the long time gripe of feddie bridges being too exposed. If it wasn't a complete hole, I'd still kind of like that. Even the black and grey color...for a battle ship ship it makes sense. Why wouldn't someone want their warship to even without a cloaking device, physically blend into the darkness of space with potentially limited lighting (again, going into things like the deflector being able to be "hidden" by massive armor plates.) It is silly in a lot of ways too, and is giganormously huge, but it has a lot of neat ideas even if many of them probably don't really fit in something like ST but rather seem meant for another series, but I guess that's kind of the point.

[@GordonMassie]

I was glad when I first saw the Vengeance because I honestly thought that the dry dock it was in was going to turn out to be a Borg Cube, although the ship being a Carrier makes alot of sense. :) Also I was thinking that bridge section what if it was like the saucer separation on the original constitution class, after all if the saucer is just a big shuttle bay and the only people on the ship is the bridge crew and whoever is in engineering why would you need to separate the whole saucer?

[@Galvars]

+Gordon Massie It can be also an armory and barracks for ground contingent.

[@silmarian]

From the top view of the bridge finger thing there's a line that could be a separation line.

[@GordonMassie]

+Galvars What, like the Nostromo?

[@GordonMassie]

+silmarian Yeah I saw that, maybe theirs impulse engines hidden in there. :)

[@Galvars]

Gordon Massie It is the... well huge ship, so why not have a place for ground component? Also they had in concept some type of "torpedo gunnery towers" whatever it is. So also large stockpiles of torpedoes for them is logic thing. No to mention drone phaser balls of death...

[@Roman-bg8zb]

It seems like Khan designed the Vengeance as a single massive ship that he could later steal to have leverage over Star Fleet and the Klingons (based on its ability to be operated by 1 crew member). He would later retrieve and unfreeze his followers, using the ship as a mobile base of operations/home (this explains its size, as it was designed to house generations of his followers). But, did Khan design Vengeance with the contingency that he couldn't overtake it and was forced to combat it in a relatively inferior ship? In such a case implementing an overly exposed bridge would make sense. If he had to fight Vengeance, he could strike directly at its brain from above/below. Then later if he managed to capture it he could easily relocate the bridge deeper into the hull/fill the hole in the saucer.

[@larrynorton1748]

One thing I have always thought of this design is the image you first started with. It makes that center section look off center to the left of the main saucer section. One of the things about a ship design they have their good sides and their bad size. The Galaxy classes bad side is a shoot of the ship the camera below the ship and they are trying to show a phase shoot drill a hole in the planet's crest.I think your theory of the main saucer section being shuttles is good, because you see no shuttle hanger doors anywhere on the back spine or in the back of the ship.Size in JJ's world is stupid. The shuttles bay doors are the same size as the TOS Enterprise, relatively two deck, the you use the reference of glass window for the bridge. The relative scaling is the same as TOS Enterprise. So if you scale this ship in that context then it is real close to being the Galaxy class ship, which would look huge to the era that we are supposed to be in.Now as far as size, the ship I have designed is 33 miles long. Why you would say? Well it is a fleet carrier. It transports 1000 starship to the theater and is a support base for them .

[@Tar-Numendil]

It's far from my favorite, but I do like it. I have no problem with its size or use of negative space. I am a Star Wars fan first, so I don't necessarily agree that a warship has to be small. This ship is nearly as long as an Imperial class Star Destroyer. I love the idea of it being a dreadnought-carrier.

[@genkenobi]

i wondered when i saw the movie,how come no one asked Marcus what that ship was on his desk?i was supposed to be top,top secret but he has a model of it on his desk.

[@saijex]

Maybe there was a regular, non section 31 warship being built. Like they said, a number of Starfleet ships just got creamed like the year before. Section 31 just put more experimental tech into it?

[@ejungleska]

+genkenobi if someone was 'summoned' to Marcus' office, I don't think they would be looking around saying stuff "what's this what's that?" but rather "yes sir, no sir" while making eye contact or looking straight down.

[@genkenobi]

please,your eyes would wonder around his office,seeing what kinda stuff he has.

[@berthulf]

+genkenobi agreed, having been in a military setting, you do notice things and gossip about them later.

[@FLAME456X]

Good point Thats a good sign that this is definatly a section 31 ship. I mean since it was built a secret shipyard in orbit of IO.

[@Kapitaen_Flauschbart]

The bigger saucer could also provide a bigger shield grid.

[@jayaldridge9520]

The Engineering section looks like a borg style vessel like Lore's.

[@NerdWorldEmpire]

I do like the ship not the biggest jj fan but I do like your idea of it being a carrier type vessel it's interesting 😊

[@austinadkins9718]

Hi im a fan of your channel but I honestly felt tat you were a little biased against it and that you also missed a key point the saucer would likely have to hold a planetary invasion force that means quarters supply warehouses as well as resource storage facility's for the ships industrial replicators and it would have to have some kind of factory or more likely factories to produce the ships assault drones and ground turrets and prefab facilitys all of which would be vital for a ground war plus its shape is supposed to help its stealth capabilitys just like modern American stealth bombers which the ship heavily reminds me of! Thanks for your work I hope that you read what I have wrote and consider it!

[@themauler9000]

Love trekyards

[@90lancaster]

I look forward to a future possible episode on the USS Kelvin.

[@neilsanghvi5229]

It looks to me like someone used up all their white lego making other starships, then decided to make another with black lego, but ran out of pieces to cover the holes in the saucer.

[@stuartkeen5234]

If you take the saucer away it has a look of a heavily armoured cling on warbird.

[@friday6448]

if it was grey, the collectors were red, the whole was filled, and scaled down, then this would be my favourite design

[@aaronwaterhouse1091]

The center of the vengeance is a massive secondary ship

[@bucktaylor1701]

i do feel that the hole was just put in to make it stand out from a stranded star fleet ship. it was like {everyone we need a star fleet ship gone bad} put a hole in it lol . yes that it .

[@danielhausser8038]

We never saw the Enterprise even fire at least once at this ship. 😦

[@TeeJayDesastron]

I thought quite a while about the saucer section of the Vengeance. I mean it may not be necessary but since it's there there might as well be a reason for it's existence. So, what to do with it? What if the "ring" of the saucer section was massive? Think of what happened in Nemesis. The Enterprise-E rammed it's saucer section right into the Scimitar and caused quite a lot of damage this way. So, what if the Vengeance can actually do it on purpose? The saucer section would make one gigantic "cutting tool" if it was indeed a massive structure. Imagine a titanic pizza slicer ramming into a ship at full impulse.... I don't think the would be much left to recognize the other ship afterwards. And after all we definitely did not see the Vengeance's full potential. Just a theory. But as crazy as the JJ-Verse tends to be it could actually be correct.

[@idabagusaryayoga4540]

i wonder how big the Galaxy Class in JJverse

[@wierdalien1]

Ida Bagus Arya Yoga not sure if there would be a need for it

[@SumDumGy]

The Enterprise D in JJ Trek is a Death Star

[@josephllivingston1378]

The V may be for Vengeance; but it should be for Vanity of the Admiral "I am Starfleet!" then the inside section is like the middle finger, flipping off it's enemies.

[@FLAME456X]

Actualy the captian has a point. xD You aint looking at it until ur close to it. Though the onlything that would make it blacked out are those Deflector and Buzzard Guards.

[@TheMobiusTrap]

The biggest problem with making a ship of that size that could be run by a single person: Consoles. Considering how easily consoles blow up in people's faces from weapons fire, there needs to be someone there to take over from the incapacitated crew. A crew of one on a ship this size will become an unmanned derelict the moment the guy at the controls is too hurt to give the ship commands.

[@ScorpioHighlander]

Well, just because it can operate with such a minimal crew, doesn't mean it would be optimal. As for the excess space, it could to a degree double as a troop carrier. If it can swat aside fleets or flotillas of ships, makes sense it would want to blitzkrieg it planet side before they can bunker down and fortify a whole lot.

[@rover213]

that whole in the saucer it could be hangar bays but instead of fighters it could had repair drones on it like we see in adromeda tv serie

[@FLAME456X]

+sefhyro space pirate good point. The fact of it having Repair drones is quite interesting I mean you suffer damage and you give the order to launch these drones. To me that would be like the JJ Equivilent of Work Bees. Only more automated.

[@wolf9walker]

Couldnt have it show up earlier, because it was a secret and no one was supposed to know about it until it was too late.

[@shokteenik]

I think the whole darker color scheme and the angles make it look like an Imperial Star Destroyer squashed into a generic Star Trek shape. Which is a great symbol for JJ Trek in general: ST that feels like SW, missing the point entirely.

[@berthulf]

The Vengeance is JJ's Star Wars fanboyishness showing through: He wanted a deathstar: this is a deathstar built by the federation. You guys are right: there are so many flaws in the design that it makes no sense.

[@botfan78]

I think they use slipstream in the JJ verse rather they realize it or not.

[@FLAME456X]

That I definatly agree on. Only a more improved Slipstream and the fact that this ship could bombard the JJ Enterprise while at warp let alone catch up to it quite quickly.

[@Z1gguratVert1go]

There was a Star Trek novel written decades ago called Dreadnaught that dealt with the idea of Starfleet building a 100% military war ship. That might have inspired some of this. Of course that book made sense, unlike Star Trek: Into Bullcrap In Star Trek II, Khan was established as a very formidable villain by taking an inferior ship (the Reliant, being Miranda Class, is overall weaker than an refitted Constitution Class) and then gaining the upper hand over Kirk. Kirk then has to use his wits and experience to gain the upper hand back, and back and forth. That's what made it a compelling conflict. Star Trek: Into Bullcrap doesn't make sense in any way at all. None. Absolutely nothing makes any sense whatsoever. And this whole bigger and bigger and bigger silliness is just offensive, it says to the audience that we're too stupid for anything with a shred of depth or sophistication in it. Jar Jar Abrams wrecked Star Trek, and now he has wrecked Star Wars as well. Maybe he should just take over Doctor Who too and then my entire childhood will be dead.

[@wolf9walker]

When you think of this, you cant think of it as a normal star trek star ship. You have to think of it from Khan's point of view since it's from his mind. Remember Khan is way before the federation.

[@AvengerII]

There is a point where large scale works against itself. There are reasons why in real life there have been very few ships (relatively speaking) built that have been over 1,000 feet long. 1) Most of the time you don't need anything that big unless there's specific reasons for it (ex: mobile airport = aircraft carrier); 2) Past a certain point, the power requirements just TO MOVE become ridiculously big and energy efficiency gets shot to heck; 3) Structures actually get weaker past a certain point in size. It's very easy to make a plane the size of an F-16 a 12-G aircraft but a transport plane is NOT going to have the same load factor for reasons of size (it would get VERY heavy if it had to be rated to 12-G's) and it's just not necessary for a vehicle that has a main function of moving cargo/place from place to place without worrying about being in a combat zone where mobility is a premium. 4) When you have excess capacity of cargo transport, those large ships get hard to justify keeping in service... They're far more expensive to operate (let alone build). The largest ship ever built, Seawise Giant, was barely around over 30 years. In some ways, it's very size (1,500ft+, over 1/4 mile long!) helped do it! It was scrapped a few years back... I thought the original Enteprise (NCC-1701, not that alternate reality NX-01 business) being 950ft long was plenty big... I think getting past 1,200ft for a starship is getting on the ridiculous side of things! They never really firmly established HOW LONG it takes to build most ships in Star Trek. From the official tie-books (technical manuals), it seems like it took at least the better part of TEN YEARS to build a Galaxy-Class Starship. I find it believable that a Constitution-Class ship could be built within 2 years... In real life, 1,100ft aircraft carriers have been built well within 3 years (as was the case with CVN-65 USS Enterprise).

[@wierdalien1]

AvengerII don't forget that in space there is a lot less friction and yes I realise the inertia will be tremendous but that's why they are matter antimatter powered

[@DrayseSchneider]

Did they change how FTL works in the new timeline? I hear you guys start to say warp only correct yourselves and say hyperspace.

[@wierdalien1]

Steven Schneider I think it's then taking the piss out of the glitter coming out of the engines and that it only takes a couple of days/hours to get to qo'nos

[@DrayseSchneider]

Alistair Shaw Ah yes, okay. I was aware of then mocking the way things were being done in the new film series, but I didn't make the connection here. Thanks.

[@SumDumGy]

It's Definitely a bitter joke. JJ destroyed any concept of warp travel. In the first film, it takes about four minutes to travel to Vulcan from Earth. It takes several hours to get back. In the second movie, it takes a matter of moments to reach Earth's moon from Klingon space.

[@haruntekin6724]

11:00 I guess you could have an aft neycell now!

[@Lokiawa]

I too like the Vengeance, however...if I get the 1/2500 AMT model I will find whatever material to close those holes and call it the USS Salvation NCC-xxxx Vengeance class. 😁 I've always imagined those cannons to be JJverse take on the Mega Phasers... At the end of Star Trek Beyond after Kirk saves his crew except for ensign Cowl, ensign Danz, ensign F'Mbles, and lieutenant Wilhelm as they died of either stepping on a landmine, having a boomerang thrown at their chest, or being vaporized two Vengeance class ships would drop out of warp over the planets atmosphere and beam up the former Enterprise crew but not before shooting the hell out of dozens of enemy alien ships which would cause those alien ships to be pulled down by the planets gravity and burn up on reentry. After the credits roll the gang is flying in a shuttle inside Earth Space Dock about to dock with their new ship...as they approach a Constitution class the gang looks happy but the shuttle flies over the Connie and over its saucer they slowly see a Vengeance ship, hull plating colored light gray, flood lights coincidentally lighting up slowly revealing the ships name and registry...USS...ENTERPRISE...NCC-1701 A, movie then immediately ends with the Paramount and Bad Robot logo fading in along with a instrument sound indicating a continuation of the story.

[@enterprise-h312]

+Captain Lokiawa That would be the troll of the century.

[@Lokiawa]

+Enterprise-H ha-ha yeah but I would find it funny the first few times I'd watch that movie. I honestly was trying to be sincere, that's how I'd want Beyond to end, but I could go for a JJverse Excelsior Enterprise A instead of an Vengeance Enterprise A.

[@brianedmonds4901]

This ship is what it would look like if the Borg built federation style ships...

[@therealscarred2112]

"Captain" Foley complaining about whining when discussing an aspect of the Bad Robot film is the Trek Dictionary definition of *Irony*...

[@ded_trekkie]

The problem with the Abrams universe and all that it contains including this ship, is that none of it makes any sense. It's Star Wars played out with Star Trek characters and names. Abrams does things because they look cool, if this wasn't Star Trek and nothing like Star Trek had ever existed then both of his Star Trek movies would have been incredible! But since Star Trek does exist, trying to force a style over substance universe full of stunning visuals that look good but couldn't realistically work, on top of an unnecessary redesign of everything that people identify as being unique to Star Trek in favour of an overly generic, polished "hollywood" style, then even though for 2 hours you might be able to enjoy yourself, eventually every Star Trek fan who loves this franchise is going to sooner or later scratch their heads and go "what the hell did I just watch?!?"

[@ded_trekkie]

The Vengeance is an awesome designed ship but would have been better placed into a Deep Space Nine story during the Dominion Wars as a derelict ship found by the Defiant. Worf and co realise that it's an Earth ship and ultimately discover that it was built by Section 31 to "defend" the Federation's interests against The Romulan Star Empire. It would have made a great storyline in that series. In Into Darkness it's just the bigger ship, the light vs the dark.

[@raymondedwards8304]

David Ellis'''' oh my God that would have been Fantastic

[@Stronghand-yw1lk]

Would you rather it had been BAY TREK?

[@oStarfax]

Section 31 makes sense as a small group working inside and around the edges of the Federation. Once they start constructing massive battleships and fleets 'in secret' the whole idea just becomes absurd munchkin stuff.

[@drakkonusfrostburn4038]

It might not make a lot of "trek" or real world sense, but it just looks cool. I agree it does look better than the JJ Constitution in a lot of ways.

[@DanielMcCool95]

Idea for a top 10 episode best dialogue mistakes in JJverse

[@kevinwiltshire2217]

That's actually a good place for the bridge just incase the shields fail

[@bigdkiddw5547]

the hole is to provide chance that torpedoes and projectiles will miss and go through the hole

[@donaldhill3823]

I figured it out....... this is JJ's version of the Death Star...... It has to be super big so everyone will fear it on sight..... once they stop laughing........

[@darthazgorath9570]

I absolutely love the hole in the sawser of this ship, I know I will reseave a lot of hate for this. But in this alternate time line where the bridge commonly has a large window at it bow , this hole makes a lot of sense. Now as for matching the inside of the ship to the outside , it is stupid as I'll get out. But if this ship instead was far smaller, and implemented a bridge more like the bridge of the hella-caryor from Marvel's avengers, this design makes a lot more sense. Expesuly if it had large windows covering the bow ,port , and starboard sides, from bottom to top of the the intier bridge section (this also meaning the bridge would fill multiple decks Wich is a nothing design idea I like.) This would allow the captain to make split second strategic dissisions without having to wait on the rest of the deck crew to send him information of the battle field, insuring for a far faster reaction time during battle. And as for the hole , it would most likely have several more shield generators to further protect just the bridge, meaning this would fix everyone else's complaints about a weekly defended bridge. So I am sorry, but I love that huge hole, to me it makes a lot of sense to ( that is if the ship was of a half way reasonable size.) Expesuly for a war class vestle, and even an exploration type vestle as was stated this ship could have been planed to be originally before being turned into this star fleet hell spawn beuty. Anyway live long hand prosper, have an amazing day and God bless