Trekyards EP92 - USS Defiant (Part 1) (Mission Briefing)

[@DarinRWagner]

As a US submarine veteran, I "understood" the Defiant the most among Starfleet ships. It was basically the only submarine in Starfleet, by virtue of its small size, warship characteristics and its cloaking ability. As for the articulated nose on the ship... my personal theory was that one position is for ramming at impulse speeds and the other is for warp travel. We saw the Defiant physically plow through Jem'Hadar fighters on the show after peppering them with rapid fire pulse phaser blasts. The one thing I didn't like about the ship when it came to some official shots of it was that there were windows on the underside, facing inward. I think those were put in when they still didn't know how small the ship was going to be on the show. It's a pugnacious little "battle turtle" that wins you over more for what it can do than how it looks.

[@analysisofscifi6051]

+Darin Wagner star trek has also had submarine combat style balance of terror was startrek remake of enemy below

[@DarinRWagner]

That is true... but the Defiant had more in common with a submarine than any other Starfleet ship. The only one that comes close in my mind is the NX-01. (The uniforms and set design of the NX-01 were lifted from Los Angeles class attack submarines that the production staff toured in prep for ST:ENT.)

[@JimbobHarrigan1984]

+Darin Wagner One of my biggest complaints was that Federation ships were like flying hotels, the cramped and Spartan interior of the Defiant was a nice change.

[@markplott4820]

+Blood Raven well Starfleet is primarily a science and exploration agency, sure they have warships but that's not their primary function, least until the Defiant. I cant see anyone doing any meaningful science with it. though, DS9 used it as a plot device. as for flying hotels, not Quite. the Galaxy class and their varients are the exception. most star ships in Starfleet are spartin as well , just look at the Movie Era Enterprise and Excelsior, the hallways are utilitarian and they still use Bunk Beds in the 1701-A and the Excelsior. this culture has not changed in a 100 years. the only starships with a starliner feel is the Galaxy class and variants as well as the Promethious. the rest are very utilitarian and cramped .

[@markplott4820]

So a starship with astrometrics can see what is going on the other side of the galaxy ? who knew. wait I'm calling BS. a star ship even on maximum sensors would not be able even to detect what is going on in the next quadrant ! it might be able to gather basic information from a few systems over . as for science probes are for relative short range applycations, however class 9 probes that use torpedeo casings can be used as a remote culture observation probe.

[@toddsmitts]

Failed to fight the Borg? I don't totally agree with that. For starters, I don't think anyone would reasonably expect a single Defiant to go up against a cube and win, but with the combined force of the fleet, the Defiant was able to hold its own against one for an extended period of time before the Enterprise-E arrived (as opposed to the fleet being utterly wiped out, like at Wolf 359). Also, it just occurred to me, but it's interesting that the Romulans never bothered to ask for the cloaking device back after they signed a non-aggression pact with the Dominion.

[@brucechmiel7964]

Do not forget the defiant was one of the first ships to arrive. She fought for a little over 3 hours against the cube. While the rest of the fleet were getting their collective asses handed to them, the defiant fought harder than any other ship. Even defenseless no shields the ablative armor held. There's a reason the cardies where afraid of her.

[@berthulf]

Smaller ship means: - It's easier to field larger numbers. - More agile and harder to hit. - Smaller crew requirements.

[@kyletimmons421]

+Michael Wetjen this makes sense for a borg defense plan

[@markplott4820]

+Michael Wetjen cannot effectively maintain a long endurance profile. unable to do ANY meaningful science. unable to conduct SpaceLift operations. frequent crew mutiny due to cramped quarters.

[@berthulf]

Mark Plott Not disagreeing, but nobody said anything about Defiant's being the backbone of fleet operations. Just not what they designed her for and those 'flaws' are therefore easily dismissed. That's what the Galaxy and Intrepid are for.

[@ronaldrobertson2332]

@@markplott4820 Never heard of any mutanies on WW2 PT boats...they fought quite well and were pretty heavily armed by wars end...

[@BlizzardTerrak]

I'm of the opinion of the "Bee sting" theory that Dr. Crusher uses. Lots of tiny ships with lots and lots of firepower. Galaxy class has 1000 crew members (ish) while a Defiant is a lot less. Take out a Galaxy (or worse, assimilate) and that's game over. But lots of little Defiants and it becomes harder because take one out and there's still lots of ships left. Also, in First Contact, it took the Cube several tries before it actually locked on.

[@markotark]

About the docking situation... The larger different coloured panels on the top of the front part of the Defiant are supposed to be hinged at the back and rise up from the front to form docking-collar/airlock for people to enter and exit. I'd have to say that the Defiant is my 2nd favourite Starfleet ship, right after USS Voyager. I guess i like em small...

[@stofsk]

It was supposed to be the first in a battlefleet. When Sisko says it was designed for one purpose ('To fight, and defeat, the Borg.') I think he meant it was gonna be part of a wolf pack of similar ships. Also, remember the Battle of Sector 001 was a long battle, it lasts as long as it took the Enterprise-E to warp to Earth under maximum warp from somewhere near the Romulan Neutral Zone. The Defiant was there from beginning to end, and was still salvageable while other ships were getting one-shotted.

[@Lokiawa]

Amen!

[@albatani27]

To be fair the Defiant is a Hero Ship so it's going to have staying power. Plus a lot of other ships survived the battle as well.

[@DorkKnight99]

First ballot hall of fame comment. The neutral zone is on average 130 light years from earth. For the Enterprise D, that meant it was an average of 2 days away at maximum warp. Let's be generous & say that the Big-E was patrolling the nearest edge of it & since her engines were better, we'll say it only took her a DAY. That means that the Defiant was fighting that fucking Cube for a minimum of 24 straight hours before the Enterprise showed up.

[@101marcwesley]

The Dork Knight - I would imagine that ships would be in a rotating formation, much like Roman centurions: attack in a wave, deplete weapons as rapidly as possible, then quickly falling back to be replaced by another wave of 'fresh' ships. This process could be repeated, ensuring sustained fire against the single Borg target. In this way a battle could last for hours, as could individual ships. Purely speculative, but I could hardly image Star Fleet wanting to engage in a slugging match with a cube.

[@OdenKnight]

Not sure if this was already discussed, but the front of the ship that has the deflector also has several photon torpedoes in it. In the event of severe damage, that "pod" can be launched and detonate upon impact on the target. Think of it as a last ditch effort before ramming the target.

[@tana1234]

Oden Knight you're correct I've read that myself I believe it's in the DS9 Technical Manual

[@claytonduvall3208]

The nose of the U.S.S. Defiant is in fact a detachable, last resort warhead. It's on the top ten little known facts about the Defiant.

[@marcusmanchester7095]

If you think about it, a small ship makes sense against the Borg. First, its meant to be deployed in groups, so the Battle of Sector 001 isn't the best example against the Borg. Second, assimilating one of these isn't going to be a huge blow to the fleet attacking the Borg, whereas assimilating a Galaxy class would be a big deal, as would any larger ship with a larger crew. Finally, that deflector is a last ditch kamikaze warhead, if the rest of the ship is disabled or the Borg are tractoring it in, its a self destruct and a "screw you."

[@ronaldrobertson2332]

"...Perhaps today IS a good day to die! PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED!!"

[@Rebecca_Lockheart]

well in a series where the war with the dominion was a major plot point the ship design in my opinion needed to reflect the fact that it was a warship and i liked how they explained how it was designed to fight the borg since the federation werent really a military driven orginization

[@leonielson7138]

11:38 Imagine, if you would, an entire attack wing of Defiant-class starships deployed to a Borg encounter. Highly maneuverable, heavy firepower, less crew to be assimilated, less mass to be assimilated. Also remember that this ship was designed as a response to Wolf 359, similar to the approval of NSA snooping following 9/11. People do a lot of funny things when they are scared.

[@msrich1982]

I was thinking the same thing. There's another thing to consider here: it's a very small ship compared to other vessels with equivalent firepower, and has a ridiculously small crew (it's not that much larger than a bird of prey in fact). Given the choice which would you put up against a borg cube, 10 Defiants with all that firepower and 500 personnel, or a single larger ship with 500 crew but only the same firepower as 1-2 Defiants. Also, against the borg, you have to consider the assimilation threat. Once your shields are down you are going to have to deal with boarders, and traditionally defeating a borg boarding party is extremely difficult. As harsh as the decision is, I can see someone in Starfleet approving what is essentially a throwaway ship with a small crew, that can be accepted as a loss in large numbers, as opposed to losing Galaxy class ships.

[@lanceheaps581]

Exactly right you could build what 6 or 7 Defiants versus 1 Soverign? 6 or 7 Defiants would easily beat 1 Soverign in a battle so the Defiant is a great warship from a value perspective.

[@hmrhuang]

Small, but powerful war ship built by the Federation to combat the Borg. Certainly not the fastest vessel, but its small size facilitated high maneuverability (why the ship didn't have aft phaser cannons) and reduced its target profile/aspect to enemy sensors. Overpowered to pack a major punch in engagements and to compensate for its lack of size.

[@rhyswatkins7545]

hmrhuang it did have aft phasers .

[@jaysus620]

Good episode, guys! The Millenium Falcon of 'Star Trek' done proud.

[@paulwalsh2344]

Nice collection of USS Defiants there guys. I have two, the 2001 Hallmark Keepsake Star Trek Starfleet Legends one and the Furuta Federation and Alien Ships Collection one. I really like the Hallmark miniature Defiant because it scales so perfectly with my Galoob micro machines Constitution Class Enterprise and my Eaglemoss Enterprise "D".

[@PuggySD455]

Thinking as far as fighting the Borg goes... I'm thinking the Defiant class ships would most likely attack in squads (swarm) like a WW2 PT boat or sometime. Cheap, small, fast, hard to hit they'd charge in fire there payload and get out and if one got taken out the loss of life would clearly be much less than if it were on of the larger classes of ships

[@markplott4820]

+Erick Thien Only the Defiant prototype was armored. the production versions were roughly comparable to corvettes or fast attack ships, LIGHTLY armed and Minimal defences. their cost would negate the possibility of equipping them ALL with Ablative hull armor and for fielding then in wolf packs.

[@PuggySD455]

+Mark Plott Maybe but I still feel the original concept of the Defiant class would of been to field multiple fast attack wings to hit the Borg and get out... In any case you could still build I'm guessing of course like 10-20 Defiant class ships to 1 Galaxy class ship and in my mind those Defiant's attacking like an angry wasps nest firing from every direction would be more effective than a massive slow moving ship especially against the Borg where normal tactics are useless...

[@markplott4820]

Disagree. the lone borg cube would be an equal match to Starfleet, however more rarely they operate in gropes of three. in this tactic they would lay waste to anything Starfleet can muster even Defiant starships. the only way it win this tactic is to deploy a mothball fleet and conduct an all out attack. I estimate at least 80% losses across the board with 15% chance of winning with this tactic and 0% chance of winning using Defiant class wolfpacks as you suggest.

[@PuggySD455]

+Mark Plott IDK what your suggesting just sound like Wolf 359 only bigger. The Borg have shown that even a single cube can easily roll ever about anything starfleet can muster at any time being that starfleet's ships tends to be scattered over a large area and only some creative story telling has saved Earth so far. The prototype Defiant after being fitted with the armer was able to go toe to toe with the Excelsior class USS Lakota witch was also fitted with the armer... I'm not saying starfleet would win but if they stuck to the original idea of the Defiant and fielded a large fleet of small ships that were at least as powerful as a refited Excelsior like the prototype they could hit the cube alot harder than to just throw a bunch of larger ships at it that would just get cut up one at a time...

[@PuggySD455]

+Mark Plott IDK what your suggesting just sound like Wolf 359 only bigger. The Borg have shown that even a single cube can easily roll ever about anything starfleet can muster at any time being that starfleet's ships tends to be scattered over a large area and only some creative story telling has saved Earth so far. The prototype Defiant after being fitted with the armer was able to go toe to toe with the Excelsior class USS Lakota witch was also fitted with the armer... I'm not saying starfleet would win but if they stuck to the original idea of the Defiant and fielded a large fleet of small ships that were at least as powerful as a refited Excelsior like the prototype they could hit the cube alot harder than to just throw a bunch of larger ships at it that would just get cut up one at a time...

[@wasp2151]

Think your wrong on the bigger ship is better against the borg. The Defiant was a prototype and mothball for various reasons. Like power problems and the hole warship thing. But If truly implementing they would be faster to build and probably cheaper to build. Smaller crews to man. Even though it was never fully implemented in the end. Starfleet Being a more of a peacekeeping and exploration force then a military force. But imagine you have hundreds or a thousand of Defiant class ships swarming in tactical formation with dozens of squadrons with some Sovereign-class or other large star ships. You see this in DS9 where Klingon Birds of Pray fly in formation with the Defiant. That how I should be used. They are essentially Starfleets equivalent to a Klingon Birds of Pray. Small warships that can be mass-produced with little crew. Still can handle things on there own. But in large battles you use them in swarms you can easily over whelm your enemy.

[@ricksmith6637]

sure like pt boats or small attack ships

[@JimbobHarrigan1984]

I'm a Defiant veteran on STO, love that tough little ship

[@cdpt107]

always loved the fact the Defient was smaller! I assumed it was small because it would be used as part of a fleet that would compliment the larger ships!

[@Aidenson]

When you talk about the docking port it raises the question as to why every ship and space station is oriented the same way. When two ships meet in space they were always the same orientation. I just guessed it made easier production wise with not having to show gravity readjustment reorientation.

[@Gman-109]

Great opening statement on the Defiant Captain. Regarding the front warhead section, this is covered in one of the DS9 "relaunch" novels, I can't remember specifically which, but it was a story for which there was a screenplay/episode written for the TV show which never was made. That warhead section is part of the self destruct system, but also had other purposes and abilities - I'll scan through the books and find the specifics tonight and re post them. EDIT - it was in the novel "Avatar", Ezri and Nog used the warhead module's photon complement (it was part of the self destruct system) in a last ditch attack in one of the battles in the book. Great catch guys, it's a rarely discussed feature of the Defiant.

[@AndyWoodall]

There's plenty of info about the warhead in the DS9 Tech Manual. Surprised given they showed deck plans and cutaways from the book that Ensign Cockings didn't read the relevant section. Back to the academy Ensign. 😀

[@derpytwerpgameryt4955]

+AndyWoodall. commander cokins not ensign

[@AndyWoodall]

+LIAM DILLON-GRAY Clearly he's an Ensign. He needs to lose the puppy dog enthusiasm to climb the greasy pole of SF ranks. And its spelt Cockings.

[@pkscarr]

The DS9 Technical Manual refers to the front section as the "warhead module"... and I've read that it contains guidance systems, the torpedo magazine and an impulse engine. It was included (apparently) by the designers as both a way of jettisoning the magazine to prevent damage from torpedos exploding and to launch the entire magazine into an enemy at once. Don't think it was ever actually used in the series though and kinda got forgotten over the course of the series, primarily as the front became the airlock and it just wouldnt make sense.

[@thomaskirkness-little5809]

I remember playing Armada and Armada 2. Defiant classes would get torn to shreds by the dozen.

[@ArchOfWinter]

The air lock is not on the deflector dish. It is on the curved area above the deflector. The hull covers it and open up when it docks, similar to how the Runabout has the inner door then the hull door. I read somewhere, maybe Memory Alpha, that the entire deflector section is designed to be a last ditch weapon to launch against an enemy. But they also say it will make going to warp impossible after launching it. I think the Defiant's advantage against the Borg would be the ease of production (since it is smaller), faster, and more maneuverable. Having a fleet of these would be very advantageous along with a regular fleet. Also, having a greater number of ships and smaller crew makes assimilation less of a worry. Instead of having a big ship with a big crew getting boarded and assimilated, a small crew of 50 is more expendable. If one Defiant gets fully assimilated, other Defiants can quickly take it out before it becomes a threat. If worse come to worse, an entire fleet of Defiants can launch their warhead section at a Borg vessel, and if that doesn't work, all of them ramming into a Borg ship would do a lot more damage than what a regular fleet can do. Find and play Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Fallen. You can explore the two main decks of the Defiant. And the layout is the most cannon accurate representation I've seen in a game.

[@thribs]

I think there were supposed to be many of them when fighting a Borg.

[@1061shrink1061]

in the diagram the airlock is above the deflector, and is on the upper curved surface, not the lower angled area. You're looking at the wrong part on the model.

[@DshibiVideo]

Most people have covered the idea that the Defiant was probably meant to attack the Borg as a squadron rather than a single ship. Look at the Voyager episode 'Message in a Bottle' where two Defiant's come to the aid of the Prometheus. Also remember that in First a Contact, the Defiant was part of the initial fleet that engaged the Borg in the Typhon system. The Borg broke through this armada and was pursued to Earth, the Defiant being among the ship's able to reengage at Sector 001 - tough little ship. I remember when the Defiant was previewed before the beginning of DS9's third season and I thought it looked odd, but damn it's definitely a favourite. The original ship coming to a dramatic end during the Dominion war. Also, regarding the line of sight rule for co dependant warp engines, seeing this was introduced for the TOS series, maybe technological advancements and contact with other races has allowed the Federation to overcome this and change their design aesthetic? ;)

[@Biggles19840]

I had a thought about the forward module on the Defiiant. Given Treks love for ships splitting up one could surmise that when operating alone the forward part could break off and either lay in wait for the rest of the ship to bring in enemies, act as point defence while the main ship engaged specific targets or act as a sniper/support weapons platform for long range engagements. This is all presuming that LCARS display was in some way accurate. Also the idea of the Defiant harassing the cube all the way to earth makes sense, I could see it making hit and run attacks using its manoeuvrability to hit hard and get out again. This is where a squadron of these vessels would shine, consistent strikes with only brief moments of exposure. By the time 1701-E shows up it would be too close to earth so Worf would've gone all in. That's my take anyway.

[@stryletz]

I think the front of the ship is suppose to be warhead storage, and in a pince the whole section can be detached from the ship and used as a massive projectile.

[@Great_America]

The front tilts down during normal sublight operations and tilts up in a straight line configuration during warp travel.

[@jamesmagill5433]

Like this design but I did remember seeing this for the first time. Went “That’s new!?!”

[@NovaScotiaNewfie]

I'm sure the Borg have the means to tactically analyze enemy vessels and prioritize the largest threat. So they may not go after the largest ships first. But determine what could hurt them the most and then go after that.

[@jeffd8465]

the airlock is on top of the deflector and the hull, I would guess, would open up. I would think the would have airlocks on all 4 side just covered by armor. it was probably easier to put the ship on the docking ring so it's out of the way and easier to guard.

[@clipwatcher77]

Small, brave ship. Rocked the Jem Hadar bugships, but did not stand a chance against the borgcube.

[@lnlraven079]

The front which articulates is due to that the whole front of the ship is loaded down with torpedoes, it is a last gasp attack on the enemy ship. In this case, the Borg to do massive damage. That has at least sixty torpedoes there, at impulse speeds it would only be short range unless you could not see it coming.

[@neils0501]

I guess the internal layout of the defiant makes it suitable only for humanoid species, since the corridors and living quarters are so cramped, and it seems unlikely that there would be room for facilities for federation members with unique needs? Would there also be incentives to serve in such conditions, like the higher pay for modern submariners (but probably not actual money)?

[@nukedathlonman]

I've been studying the Defiant carefully over the last few weeks, and I have a seemly odd question... The Defiant has the launch bay on the bottom as opposed to a standard shuttle bay. Well, the odd question I have regards the launch bay door - any idea where it goes when it's launching a shuttle pod? The images I can find show it totally gone when open. So I'm guessing it slides into the hull, or between the hull and hull Armour?

[@mr.m2556]

I know this is a old post but....here is a idea that would make the docking feasible as it is seen in DS9? This is my explanation on how it can be accomplished... part of the deflector array folds inward to reveal a hidden main hatch and access way built with the deflector built all around the hatch with a hidden access way on and off the ship through the deflector area. Better for security to have a hidden hatch that would keep intruders guessing how to physically board the ship. As for why it is not seen in the side view schematic. Because it is not visible from the side because of other equipment in that area. On a top view chart it would be seen as a void within all of the deflector equipment. The only time you would see the deflector opening inward would be right before it docked and soon as the ship disengages from the air and is clear a few meters the deflector would swing into it's working position and thus hiding the hatch. If the defiant docked this way every thing is feasible and thus fits cannon. The only thing is they never talked about the hidden hatch because of security concerns could be an explanation why we never saw it or heard them talking about the Defiant's secret main hatch. So do you like this idea? And is there a way for someone to animate this to make it sudo-cannon?

[@tjcdesign8377]

Hey i just though of something. Why is it that only Starfleet star ships require a deflector dish? I never see any deflector dish on Klingon ships, Vulcan ships, Andorran ships, Romulan ships, Cardassian ships, Ferengi ships, or any other kind. Doesn't this mean those ships would get smashed to bits as soon as they hit even the slowest Warp speed? Just a thought. If this has been resolved somehow, I would be very interested to learn of any deflector dishes i have missed, but i simply have not recognized them on non Starfleet ships.

[@SpiritOfBagheera]

The computer game "DS9: The Fallen" allows you to explore (and fight in) the Defiant. So you get to see the bridge, the engineering section, the transporter pad, and the shuttle bay. As far as I can tell, the game never contradicts the official DS9 technical manual. Anyway, running around the Defiant is pretty cool.

[@chrisgwilliam9893]

Forgot how much I love this ship 😍

[@chrisgwilliam9893]

I read it was a sensor pod/deflector up for long range scan down for tactical battle sweep. ??

[@shawn2780]

The warp nacelle line of sight rule as well as the rule that they be visible from the front was from Matt Jeffries himself I think (source Star Trek 25 documentary that aired waaaaaaaaay back in the day). Whether it was his rule or came down from Roddenberry I don't don't but I suspect the former. When Gene Roddenberry explained the 'rules' to Andrew Probert, there were 3- that warp nacelles must be in pairs, have at least 50% line of sight across the hull, and be visible from the front. Of course all of these rules have been broken too many times to count.

[@johnippolito2463]

Since the federation had signed treaties that made cloaking tech illegal for them to use i believe the articulation happens when the cloaking shield is exposed. When not cloaked the shield array is tucked away and hidden. When the ship is configured for non cloaked flight and closed up it is probable that dampening fields activate to keep the cloak generator hidden from sensor probes. The cloak was always meant for testing on the down low.

[@Xoron]

The airlock is not in the deflector dish according to the deckplan but rather behind the hull above the defelctor.

[@jame3shook]

finally, starfleet taking a cue from the Romulans. The class looks a lot like the TOS Romulan warbird with the nacelles mounted to the hull.

[@MoA-Reload...]

On the part about Defiant being built to fight the Borg, I think the idea was to have a small ship that packed similar punch as a big ship but be able to build more of them. We see it being a match for the Lakota. I wonder how many Defiant classes can be built in the time it takes to build an Excelsior class? I'd imagine the idea was to be able to field lots of them and have the initial punch. I think they would lack the endurance of a comparable big ship in drawn out fight though. If the Defiant failed to combat the Borg it's the questionable endurance in sustained combat that would be were it would fail. Having said that I'd imagine they ended up with a ship that excelled in the hit n run role.

[@AndyWoodall]

Exactly this. Tactics post Wolf 359 were to swarm the cube as per what we saw in First Contact and the Defiant class was an element of this. It was designed to fight in squadrons. I take a little issue with Ensign Cockings assertion that the class was unsuccessful at fighting the Borg. It had taken heavy damage in FC, but there's no reason to assume it failed, for all we know it could have been fighting the cube in a running battle for light years. The cube in FC had suffered severe damage, this fact alone suggests that's SF's tactics between then and Wolf 359 had improved markedly.

[@Lokiawa]

+AndyWoodall Though I don't condone the dislike of Cockings opinion because i thought that way too since the Defiant, Akira and some other ships were made to punch the Borg but was only shown to made of tissue compared to the Cube (minus the Defiant), but I do agree about the opinion of the Defiant being the first and last line of defense to what would've been its bitter end if it wasn't for the Enterprise E 😍 (that Defiant saving fly by 😍😍😍😍)

[@markplott4820]

+AndyWoodall the costly nature of the Ablative hull armor and other exotic ship systems negate the possibility of operating in wolfpack's .

[@crookedwookiee]

+AndyWoodall I agree, Cockings missed the point a bit. The Defiant was never intended to beat the Borg singlehandedly. The original design for the ship was to operate in squadrons, using hit and run tactics with a punch disproportionate to their size. The Defiant was simply the only ship of the class for a long time because the design was deemed too flawed and was mothballed. As far as size; if the Borg cubes proved one thing it's that bigger just means more to shoot at, and an easier target to grab with tractors and hit with cutting beams. The extreme maneuverability of the Defiant was a direct response to the weapons used by the Borg; dodge the tractors, avoid the cutting beams, hit and run and swarm them with small, fast, hard-hitting targets while the bigger ships duke it out. You can't out-big or out-strong the Borg, so Starfleet tried to counter them by going Ali - float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. They just didn't apparently have enough of them active at the time of the Queen attacking Earth to function as a coordinated fast attack squadron as intended. I think it's actually pretty telling that, in that battle, we see much bigger ships getting blown up and torn apart, and the Defiant is one of the handful still up and fighting (if barely) when the E arrives to save the day.

[@markplott4820]

I do think it is possible, however in order to field them right away they will have to be rather plain, no Ablative armor , no pulse phasers, and no rapid torpedeo tubes. it will be a fast, agile, low observable ship. and no special power distribution system. they will be like so much cannon fodder, a captain of one of those will have to work hard to keep his crew alive.

[@lincolnnoronha4128]

"LITTLE"?!?!

[@scottrabie]

In terms of bigger ships vs the Defiant being used against the Borg. Think of resources and crew needed for each of those scenarios. Say 3 Sovereign class going up against a Borg Cube vs a dozen Defiants. Which is more capable? If the Borg Capture one in their tractor/assimilation beam and fire on the others, the 3 Sovereigns may be relatively quickly disabled before doing enough damage to cripple a cube. The Defiants may not be able to pack as much of a hit per ship, but they can deliver more phaser power and torpedoes in a shorter amount of time. Relative losses would be lower, so it's a better system. I believe the reason it wasn't mass produced was simply a lack of dilithium at the time, and the fact that this was one of a number of new and experimental ships. Things like the Intrepid class has more versatility in mission profiles, so there was a push to make more of the larger ships.

[@ricksmith6637]

I believe these ships were designed like mosquito ship able to get in fast hit and get away and the attacking power were just as much as a big star ship they were just smaller

[@Allhailthesith]

where did you get that defiant model from????? I got to have it

[@alexturlais8558]

Parrish Pittman EL Information Broker this is where I get my starship models: shop.eaglemoss.com/star-trek-official-starship-collection/uss-defiant-nx-74205-model

[@davidedward10]

The airlock is above the deflector, looks like when not in use closed off with armoured doors, thus hiding the airlock when not docked. This is a warship after all , all hatches and external door will be armoured:)

[@donaldhill3823]

I looked it up and see that the "Warhead" is not a weapon in of itself but a detachable none warp section which can operate separate of the main ship for various operations including commando raids. Too bad they never came up with a episode showing it being used. The Air lock is actually above the Deflector so there must be hidden door on the top part of the curved nose. As far as the crews-mess is concerned Capt Folly is correct in that you do not have the whole ship eating at the same time. Modern Subs can not fit a whole watch section into the mess hall at one time yet cycle through 2+ watch sections in an hour. You get your food, you eat, you go relieve the watch and the next guy in line comes in until every one from both sections and who ever else want to eat has been served. Typical sub has 3 shifts/watches.

[@Dreamphile]

the nose articulated so that when it landed the crew/away team could walk out of the air lock onto solid ground. no i do not remember where i read it but it was from a novel many years back.

[@Grapthor24]

As far as the crew numbers go we know Starfleet loves redundancies. In the DS9 episode Destiny, Gilora is surprised Starfleet specs require a secondary backup to a primary system (around the 19.41 mark). This could be the same in crew compliment, simply having extra people on hand for emergencies. We know those deadly consoles explode at the drop of a hat. Also the extra crew could be a detachment of MACOs very much like on Enterprise. You have to expect a boarding party attack in any given engagement, someone's got to protect the officers so, I.E. a couple Klingons don't slaughter the lot of them the first time the shields go down. I don't think an assault force directly because of the size difference in ships, no way 20 - 30 soldiers are taking any other battleship of the day. The sheer number difference wouldn't allow it, however a small crew on a small ship could hold off a boarding party much like, supposedly, 300 Spartan's held back the Persian army at the Hot-Gates a.k.a. the Thermopylae pass.P.S. It was the Pegasus, not the Phoenix, that was the experimental ship with the phase-shifting cloak. I really hate to be that internet fan who's nitpicking but the Phoenix was the First Contact ship... and the U.S.S. Phoenix was a Nebula class vessel, as I'm sure you both know. Ahhh.. good old Captain Maxwell.. "The minstrel boy to the war has gone...."

[@wierdalien1]

there were 3000 other Greek troops at thermoplyae. but yes

[@rangerjima]

More bang for the buck you could build several Defiants for every Sovereign you build. With weapons and shield systems of larger ship packed into a sturdy hull and compact frame.

[@Lokiawa]

Uuuuhm, what a great coincidence on the USS HAMMER briefing I said "USS HAMMER vs USS DEFIANT" again great coincidence! My favorite tough lil ship! 🙌

[@randybentley2633]

I would imagine that if you had a wing of Defiants (36) all coming in, maneuvering out of the way of weapon salvos and tractor beams, and pounding away at sections of a cube then yeah we are talking some serious damage capability versus a a single large vessel.

[@CaptainGeronimo]

Deflector is one masive torpedo, it's explained in STO :)

[@paulgrattan8343]

Actually the Defiant did well against the Borg. She fought the cube at the first line of defence and was still fighting the cube probably hours later sector 001. She was still largely intact after what must have been hours of fighting. Automation with skeleton crew makes sense for a warship. If in combat crew are killed/incapacitated the automation can kick in staying in the fight.

[@novoeduardoac1248]

It is not a missile. According to Ronald D. Moore, in case of a fight against a Borg Cube and all torpedoes have been used, just like a bee sting, the Defiant would detach that forward nose, and then ram it into the Cube with full impulse speed; inside it, small magnetic containers of antimatter pockets would be deactivated upon impact. As for fighting the Borg, the idea behind the Defiant was: instead of building 5 Galaxy class during one whole year, with the same resources, Starfleet can build 40 Defiants within one month. Then, Instead of engaging a cube in waves of formations like in Wolf 359, Starfleet would have several dozens, maybe more than a hundred, defiants attack a Cube as a swarm of angry bees, randomly and as chaotically as possible. Thus, it denies the Borg their greatest strategical and tactical asset: quick adaptability. If a Cube is attacked by a "hive" of Defiants, say 100, each choosing its own targets, its own shield modulation algorithm, each remodulating the weapons frequency and intensity after each run, by the time it reaches its destination, it will, at least, suffered heavy damage.

[@ChrissonatorOFL]

"Officially, it's classified as an escort vessel. Unofficially, the Defiant's a warship - nothing more, nothing less. ... The Borg threat became less urgent. Also some design flaws crept up during the ship's shakedown cruise. So Starfleet decided to abandon the project. ... You'll have complete access to the ship evaluation reports. But to put it simply it's over-gunned and overpowered for a ship its size. During battle drills, it nearly tore itself apart when the engines were tested at full capacity." - Sisko

[@PrinceAnakin]

was there landing ramp like Voyager like Bird of prey?

[@poseidon5003]

The ship naturally only has a top speed of warp 9. If they pushed the engines faster than that, the ship would shake apart. That is why it was mothballed for a time. They specifically addressed this in a DS9 episode. They had to boost power to the structural integrity field from all other systems to go faster than warp 9. I forget what the episode was called, but yeah. It's canon.

[@tim18wheels76]

The moveable nose section dates back to DS9 transitioning to using both a studio model and new CGI model. The CGI model didn't quite match the studio model. The visual effects artist thought the nose was more angled. Once the error was discovered, it was too late. The show must go on! The studio model was not changed due to the need to dock the model to the DS9 model. The toys, collectables, and model kits that have a movable nose allows the fan to position it to their favourite version. The in universe explanation is the nose section mired for some reason, like maybe docking. However the nose moving was never actually addressed in cannon.

[@ChrissonatorOFL]

Defiant has to be one of my favorite ships.

[@jennyangel2137]

According to a DS9 book I had, and I can't remember what the name of it was, O'Brian said the front was like a last ditch weapon.

[@saquist]

-The FIrst image seems to be Lint's Defiant (inaccurate) (Bridge Commander) -Mike Okuda's MSD of Defiant is horriblly flawed. Defiant doesn't have Landing gear. The ship has at least 5 decks. The Last Deck in this MSD should NOT have a shuttle bay because that represents the Nacelle. In other words that's open space so the MSD is useless in defining the Defiant. -Defiant's top speed according to canon around Warp 8.9 or Warp 9. When power is diverted from the phaser capacitors the ship is capable of Warp 9.5 -8:22 Those are warp plasma vents not escape pods. 12:12 According to First Contact Defiant was one of the first ships to encounter the borg way back on the Federation Boarder. It fought to the Cube all the way to Earth. -I've done an indept analysis on Defiant. It's propper size should be Reliant like 220 meters and 6 Decks. -Enterprise E has no canon warp speed.

[@markplott4820]

actually, if you go back to the Defiant cutaway, you'll notice the airlock is above the deflector not in it or below it. the airlock is armoured nd part of the top curve of the deflector. also, I do not beleave we ever got to see it on screen , but the entire deflector modjule can be jettisoned and fired at an enemy vessel, as sort of a final weapon.

[@terryforsdyke306]

The Defiant was somewhere between 50 and 220 meters, the shot of it against the Enterprise E in First Contact only makes sense with a Defiant smaller than 60m, but there are other shots which only make sense if it is over 200m, apparently it was origionaly designed to be in the region of 55m but it was (a few seasons) later decide it should be more like 170, but most of the shots make most sense at 110-120m I am pretty sure the Defiant was supposed to have a max speed of about warp 8.6. Spoiler for DS9 season 7 (almost 20 years old) when the Defiant was destroyed to towards the end of DS9 the escape pods were shown to be protected under the hull armor, you literaly had sections of the hull, which did not look in any way removable, pop off to release the escape pods. it was replaced by the Defiant class Sao Paulo, which was renamed Defiant for the last few episodes

[@markplott4820]

the Production version of the Defiant did not have the Ablative hull armor, the pulse phasers, the fast multiload torpedos and no cloaking device. that said the Production version of the Defiant did have coatings and systems to make it more stealthy. it had standard phasers and standard torpedoes. It did not have Ablative hull armor but it did have improved shield emitters and deflector grids. it did have a fully working warp system and power distribution system thanks to Rom the Ferengi for downloading his mods to stafleet. and it kept the Final Weapon the Deflector Missile.

[@Taiko206]

Even though it's not the most comfortable ship Starfleet has to offer, i would take this ship any day over any other design. In my opinion one of the best ships they have around. Loved it from the first time i saw it .

[@drksideofthewal]

Building a big ship to fight the Borg is pointless. You'd just be giving them a bigger target for those cutting beams. The best armor is not getting hit, which is why they made the Defiant small.

[@ronanmadigan677]

I thought the Defiant's max warp speed was between 9.2/9.5 not 9.9?

[@PeyoteIguana]

Why are computers so damned huge on Starships? Did they run out of material for Microprocessors? You would think it would be no larger than one isolinear chip by that year.

[@Dreadtothink]

In the ds9 technical manual I believe it says the forward pod is an anti matter matter warhead.

[@Dreadtothink]

A Borg cube buster :)

[@Dreadtothink]

I just looked at first contact again out of curiosity, the Defiant officer reports to Worf thatmain power is offline and all weapons are gone. Perhaps this rendered the warhead unable to launch and the only option left for Worf was indeed ramming speed. Perhaps there was more to this scene than just honourable Klingon heroism?

[@117Shinigami]

Have you done the Excelsior class yet?

[@aswb4338]

hi those blue things ontop are plasma vents the warpcore cant eject (there not escape pods)

[@acereporter73]

I love the Defiant. The ship does suffer from some uneven plotting by the writers, rather than any specific flaws in the design. For example, the writers of ST: First Contact originally wanted to destroy the Defiant... just because. Fortunately that plan changed. It would have been nice to see the Defiant operate to its full potential rather than be saddled with plot contrivances.

[@johnray1956]

Yeap, trekyards the Borg had a problem with smaller spaceframes. SO the defiant having a really large torpedo system as a one shot, close combat weapons system. So the defiant packs as much raw weapons power as possible, while the borgs systems gets nailed on two counts. 1: The Borg have a harder time tracking small ships, 2: Is that having several smaller ships swarming the Borg Cube (correcting mistakes of Wolf-359). So the Borg would not be able to grab so many ships all at once, while the defiant uses its heavy weapons.

[@Marinealver]

That gets pwned by the Borge Cube in First Contact lol.

[@alexturlais8558]

Maldus Alver because it was on its own. in a large squadron of Defiants, they would obliterate a cube.

[@dr.zippymcscoots8725]

The defiant is like a Porsche with two 50 caliber guns on the front. As a warship in star trek its pretty small. but as far as spacecraft go its 170 meters long or 557 feet long. Almost 2 football fields long. go stand at the end of a football field and youll get a feeling of its size.

[@benjimain6]

True ! quite big after all !

[@illmade2]

I always thought these would deploy in packs of three or more, similar to Sherman tanks in WWII or the U boat wolf packs. Something that was never done in the show IIRC,

[@Lokiawa]

I never thought of the Defiant class that way, hmmm.

[@fhilbo1701]

making the Defiant smaller seems quite logical to me. for the same amount of resources used to produce a bigger ship, they can make at least a few Defiant class vessels which are faster and more efficient and multiple targets are harder to assimilate. They can't match the Borg in size or firepower so it makes more sense to counter with manuverability and speed. I really don't think they were meant to engage the Borg one on one, but don't forget we've seen it take on much larger more powerful ships like Klingon Negh'Var and Dominion battle cruisers and win.

[@albatani27]

I always felt that was what made Defiant as effective as it was. While I don't belive that it could match the firepower of a larger ship like an Nebula, Excelsior, or Ambassador, it's speed, agility allow it fly rings around larger foes. That combined with the firepower it does have...impressive for a ship of its size...makes it an effective combatant.

[@Dreadtothink]

What is evident here in the schematic is how thin the ablative hull actually is. It appears no thicker than any other class of ship. Some Wwii battleships had armour 20inches thick You can argue that the alloys in the 24th century are so advanced they can be that thin. But thicker armour will always offer better protection against an explosion you would assume.

[@alexturlais8558]

Ricardo Warner Thicker is not always better. 20" of steel will be better than 40" of wood. A computer from the 1990s is a lot thicker and bigger than modern computers, but modern computers are a lot more powerful. When it comes to defense, size doesn't matter.

[@mmilller452]

I cant wait for the proper episode

[@BattlestarZenobia]

The warhead is the deflector section, in last ditch it can be launched as happened in DS9 Avatar

[@flatheadgg2443]

There was a constitution class uss defiant in the original series in the episode " the tholian web " as the uss constellation from "the doomsday machine " they made a ship class out of that name pretty nice fact

[@toddsmitts]

Obviously they DID think of shuttles launching, because a shuttle launched in the very first episode. (Remember? Odo and Kira go the Founders' homeworld).

[@K0rNb4LL]

If they ever make another main timeline series or movie I wanna see a Defiant A. I know the ship was a one-off (and they don't need more after getting all that anti-borg tech from Voyager) but it would be neat if they built another to honor the first. They could give it to Worf since he is ambassador to Qo'nos and they like warships over there.

[@nightwingnum1226]

I loved it right off the bat my 4th favorite ship. These were supposed to go into battle against the Borg is Squadrons not just 1 ship like seen in first contact.

[@EjNappe]

can you guys do an episode on the USS defiant from Star Trek Enterprise season 4 episodes 18 and 19? it was a constitution-class from an alternate universe

[@BattlestarZenobia]

I'd describe it as a battle cruiser given that it's fast moving with little armour but has the same firepower as battleships

[@brandond9181]

I don't think we ever saw the Defiant go Warp 9. I think Warp 8 is as fast as we've seen it go.

[@pathfinderdiscovery9395]

That was Pegasus that had the experimental phased cloak originally, wasn't it guys , an then the BIG D , to escape the large asteroid cavern form the romulans an i thought commander shelby said the Borg ship could survive even if 78% of it became inoperable , flash backs from watch these shows since they became religion to me lol . Nice job as always i enjoy watching your channel . Thanks for it guys I really mean it.

[@alexturlais8558]

Buddy Addis Yeah, the Borg ship has so many redundancies, 4/5s of it can be destroyed but can still fight.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

Now I wonder have anyone try to shot at the warp pillion to remove the warp drive on a federation ship to stop form getting away

[@CubanWriter]

In the original intended purpose, I think of the mass of the ship compared to the mass of something like the Galaxy class. Then I think of the firepower of the ship compared to the Galaxy class. I think you could build and field a dozen of these for the same resources you could build a Galaxy class, and essentially have about 12 times the firepower bearing down on a Borg cube. Imagine if, at Wolf 359, they had been able to field 300 of these ships instead of 39 big capitol ships. This must be what was in their mind when they were designing this tough little warship.

[@alexturlais8558]

CubanWriter And remember, a Galaxy class has got science labs and massive amounts of living areas and holdodecks. Defiants don't need to waste energy on those.

[@NovaScotiaNewfie]

It's function over form. It doesn't matter if it doesn't look like other Starships it was designed for a specific mission. We are seeing stealth technology being built into Navy ships now and they look different from conventional vessels. Starfleet Engineering would do the same thing, build a ship for their needs not for aesthetics.

[@peccatumDei]

The Defiant is without a doubt, one of my all-time favorite ships. As a prototype it's interesting in and of itself, but IMHO, the class was destined to be built in large numbers, and operate as pack hunters. Even as part of the fleet defending Earth, the Defiant was unable to take down a Borg cube. And that brings up one of my pet peeves: Fighter size ships in the Trek Universe. I know people like to design them, but really, they make no sense given the physics of the Star Trek universe. The Defiant class, despite it's size, is for all intents and purposes, about as small as a ship can get and still be effective in combat. Given shields and beam weapons, only ships with large power sources would be able to generate effective shields. Small, single man ships. would be so much cannon fodder, a job better left to automated drones.

[@markplott4820]

+peccatumDei actually, Starfleet stated to mass produce the Defiant but without the Ablative hull armour. Red Squad had a Defiant of this type. it was equivalent to similar size class ships, not as Tough as the Defiant prototype.

[@peccatumDei]

+Mark Plott I will have to re-watch that episode with Red Squad, as I do not recall anything being said about only the Defiant having ablative armor. Perhaps the training vessel was built without the armor, in order to save time and resources better spend on the war effort. Captain Benteen of the Lakota was unaware the Defiant had ablative armor, but that's not evidence it was not part of the standard for Defiant class vessels. Ablative armor is a last ditch defense, as ablation is literally the vaporization of the armor. Against a beam weapon the vapor fog would give the ship a chance to survive once the shields are down, but not for long. Starfleet certainly did start building them in large numbers for the Dominion war. Imagine 60 attacking a Borg cube, with 10 attacking each face...

[@markplott4820]

Flies to be swatted ! Borg are the modern day juggernauts. also, you would have to either rescue the crew or run risk of Borg infection. then you'll have the nasty duty of destroying your own ships and Borgified crew. the Defiant class it self is not that much more different than conventional starships of the Era. however, the Defiant Prototype (Sisko's ship ), had the ALL important ablatve armor the supercharged power system ( with problems) until Nog fixed them and pulse phasers and fast loading torpedoes and the illegal Cloaking device ( on loan ). the Rest of the Defiant class did not share these traits. mind you it was still a stealthy ship, agile and fast . it was still armed to the teeth but with conventional weapons . weapons that could be uprated for the dominion war.

[@timf7413]

Of all Star Trek ship designs, this one always seemed the most in scale to me compared to what the interior was supposed to be.

[@SumDumGy]

Wait... So you don't understand the airlock in the deflector section but do understand it couldn't dock to DS9 without it?! :/

[@matthewknobel6954]

You have to consider that the federation is made of thousands of cultures with an equal number of ways to get faster than light travel. Why would star fleet have to stick with human only designs?