Trekyards EP191 - NX-01/Akira Comparison - with Doug Drexler (Part 1)

[@CubanWriter]

I think the reason that people don't have the same problem with the Daedalus/Pasteur is because they were introduced to the hull shapes in the correct order. If we had seen the NX-01 first, we would not have been thinking 'Akira' when we saw it. When we saw the Akira we would have thought, "Oh, a call back to the old NX. Cool!" The big problem is that we thought we knew what the pre-TOS aesthetic was, and then we got something that felt to us as though it was futuristic instead.

[@saquist]

That maybe true but Daedalus and Pasteur are more different than alike in the details.

[@RaikenXion]

Yes, you make good point there because thats how Ive always felt about the NX-01, Ive always felt (apart from the actual design of the necelles) that it was too "futuristic" and that it looked as though it was a good 50yrs AFTER Kirk's era, let-alone 100yrs before. But yeh I just will always feel the NX-01 was a rip-off of Akira class, I dont think I'll ever feel any different about it to be honest, the inside of the NX-01 was quite era and "prototype" era I felt, and especially the uniforms they did feel totally very early era, just after the whole NASA time so I liked what they did there, but there are just still inconsistencies like the flat-screen monitors compared to the bulky grey "view-screens" on the later Constitution class. Heck, even the other day watching the classic time travel episode of DS9, Sisko says that Kirk's Enterprise was the first one, ofcourse, no mention of NX cause of the time DS9 came out. But I guess these are the things when it comes to Star Trek.

[@wierdalien1]

Raiken Xion Sisko could have meant NCC-1701.

[@RaikenXion]

Alistair Shaw yes, "could" have.

[@wierdalien1]

Raiken Xion hey that atleast explains the lack of NX. stop being snarky

[@toddmallett9929]

I for one love Enterprise, my favorite ship, my favorite engineer. i hope Doug knows that there are people that love that ship and i am one...so screw the haters Doug designed a great ship

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Same.

[@tightlypackedcoil]

"Hi, I'm captain foley" "And I'm kurlkuggingunmcfurtz."

[@STOEmma]

I don't want to wait a week. The NX class is my favourite ship and anything involving it intrigues me. Also, great episode and I look forward to part two next week :)

[@lostinbrent3737]

It's the same ship. The key components are the same: the indent in the front of the saucer, the catwalk, the pontoons. It's the same. Some retrograding to the skin, yes, but he didn't even bother to take the blue off the warp nacelles even though that shouldn't be seen until the TMP era. it's the same.

[@blinkenschnaag777]

Yes, it's such a shame. It shouldn't look like a future ship. It should look a bit like a Zefram Cochrane era kind of ship.

[@zzeegermantube]

One of my favourite Trekyards episodes simply for the dressing down Drexler gives the plague that are the internet trolls. He hits the nail on the head with his analysis. That aside I loved the look of the Enterprise straight away, including the interiors. It really brings across that this is early Starfleet.

[@DarthRepublican]

I have to say that I agree with Doug's points 85.5%. He's absolutely right about the Internet and its often mindless cruelty. People are awful and that awfulness comes out when awful people are given privacy, a keyboard, and an excuse to lash out mindlessly. Having said that, I think that it's hard to deny that Enterprise wasn't the victim of of franchise fatigue. It was the fourth Star Trek series to come out in the late 80s and early 90s. And each series seemed to follow a similar pattern. First there was fan backlash as the series struggled to find its footing. Next there was acceptance as the series improved. Finally fans would come to fully embrace the new series as its run progressed. While this pattern more or less held up with each series it also had diminishing returns with each series in part because the series were overlapping in time. In other words because you could get your Star Trek fix by watching TNG, you were less likely to embrace this new DS9 show. And after TNG ended you would get hooked on DS9 and would be less likely to embrace Voyager. Then along comes Enterprise and you've just gone through three Star Trek series in quick succession. Under those circumstances you might just not be willing to give show the chance that it deserves. Finally, and I fully admit that I am being subjective here, it just feels like Voyager and Enterprise failed to gel as well TNG and DS9. Again this is a "your miles may vary" situation. Watching TNG and DS9 at their height, it felt to me that every episode was great with clunkers being few and far between. With Voyager and Enterprise this pattern felt like it had been reversed with too many bad episodes and not enough good ones. It also felt like Voyager and Enterprise each failed to live up to their premise. Voyager often felt like just another Starfleet vessel flying around the Alpha Quadrant not like a ship isolated 70,000 light years from home. Enterprise similarly often felt too much like a lost TNG episode and not enough like prequel. This is just my opinion it has remained remarkably consistent over the years and I suspect that many fans share it. I think that a lot of the Akira Enterprise controversy has more to do with Enterprise's overall performance in the eyes of the fans and less to do with its actual design.

[@biostemm]

The Akira being the inspiration for the NX-01 is undoubtable. When people say "The NX-01 is just a copy of the Akira", they are talking about the overall design - the saucer, dual necks, etc - not that someone literally did a copy-paste of the Akira to the NX-01. For a ship that is supposedly the predecessor of the Constitution/Enterprise, a single hull/neck coming off of the saucer would have made more sense. It should have been a bit more blocky/consisted of more primary shapes instead of blended forms. You guys seem to be focusing on what the parts do in-universe; It's the aesthetic similarities, overall, that is undeniable, bot what each gribble (sp?) is supposed to do in-universe. Look at the Enterprise refit vs the Excelsior - 2 ships that have almost identical layouts, but vary enough so as to be distinct.

[@aurorauplinks]

it makes more sense though, its more stable and strong, in case a antimatter explosion happens it increases the chances of the ship not totally being crippled to the point of flying apart

[@aurorauplinks]

besides by being so metalic, so built bit by bit, and not being bulky it gave lots of room for the upgrades and gave a huge plethora of story

[@thribs]

I was reading the Eaglemoss issue for the Pasteur recently and apparently the class is around in the Prime timeline as the USS Nobel NCC-55012. It's mentioned in a DS9 episode.

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively explained and executed in every way indeed guys👌.

[@jaysus620]

Also, Doug's thoughts on the nature of the Internet and what it has enabled people to do to one another, without recourse, might be my favorite segment of Trekyards featuring him yet.

[@90lancaster]

Doug my dear fellow hold on to you pantaloons and the mild discontent that TOS Fans had with Enterprise's ship design is going to be magnified by 100% when Discovery airs. Many a TNG episode passes with just a 'Meh' and is glossed over as it's from a pre-internet age - if The Internet had been a thing then - I expect Troi would have been in a Uniform by season 2, And they'd have toned down the kids featuring episodes substantially in Season 4 as people would have Been "Not another one!" that is exactly what has happened with Doctor Who - they eventually got the point that no one liked spooky kids eps and the rating fell off a cliff every time they did one. When Discovery Airs it will be picked to pieces by many more people coming at it from many different angles and carry many different agendas too - as lets be honest Discovery's Show runner is a Zealot in some of his views and he's certainly going to be proselytising in the show he's said as much - and he's bound to annoy some people with the Human elements of the show - and the hardware Uniforms and technology will also attract it's own outrage or gushing too I expect. Or to put it another way The Ghost of Star Trek Voyager is going to come back and haunt Discovery - as is TOS & Enterprise. It's certainly going to cause some flinches if or when Discovery is compared to Enterprise and found wanting in anyways in that comparison.

[@snyderman001]

Doug nailed it on the head about Internet rage. I always liked the intro to Enterprise. I always was amazed at how many people drew characterization in opposition to Enterprise and its conflict with the Federation and the show was pred-Federation. Maybe if Federation values were more prevalent, discussions would be more productive.

[@novax-ig9yt]

As a casual Rod Stewart fan (I like classic Stewart), the only thing that bothered me about the opening theme of Enterprise was the fact that I watched Enterprise for 2 seasons before I realized that was Russell Watson! But that was on me for not picking up on that!

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

And then they changed it.

[@CubanWriter]

I first saw the NX-01 when I was in the supermarket, and there was a TV Guide on the rack beside checkout. On the TV Guide cover, there was the NX class. And my immediate thought was, "It looks just like the Akira! WTF?!" I have, since that time, gradually reconciled myself to the appearance of the NX. But you can't beat first impressions.

[@howardoberg5847]

you know, if you took a collection of WWII planes and subjected them to the same ridiculous design 'standards' of some trek fans they would be livid. 'Why, that P51 look too much like the P-40! lazy design!' 'How can the p-38 be canon? two engines and a split tail!!!!' 'why does the mustang have inline engine and the thunderbolt have radial? can't the design department get it's act together?'

[@paulwarren9927]

Haha! Spot on! I agree completely.

[@murpyeddie1139]

the mustang has a v-engine :)

[@howardoberg5847]

oops, correct

[@XTINFILM]

That's not how I feel about it. I only dislike the NX-01 as a hero ship. As a side ship it would have been fine.

[@wierdalien1]

murpy eddie same engine as in the spitfire, Hurricane and Lancaster Bomber. God why are they copying themselves.

[@thribs]

Good episode. You should do a Enterprise Refit/Enterprise A comparison video.

[@laviliterthefirst]

Not to start a fight but, the reason people didn't like the intro music was not because it wasn't a march it's because it was like Rod Stewart or something and sounded very "Fullhouse" when you remove the singing the song is fine.

[@90lancaster]

I only heard the song years later when it was on every time after that I pressed mute - I never got passed the first line before I went Yuck and muted it. when I did finally hear it all the way through I burst out laughing.

[@thribs]

I don't see what the big deal is. Maybe the architect of the Akira was a huge fan of the NX Class and wanted to make his own version of it.

[@ZeroB4NG]

Akira Class existed first

[@Keurosaur]

He means the in-universe designer.

[@liljenborg2517]

The "big deal", what gets so many of the fans annoyed about the NX vs Akira, is that instead of giving us an unique ship for Enterprise they took a relatively lazy way out and simply kit-bashed the Akira design. "We'll just take this popular Akira design from the background of TNG, make the nacelle pylons angled up instead of down, and save a bunch of time, effort, and money designing something, you know, original." In spite of the Captain and Commander's constant assertions that the two ships are "completely different" (I'm up to over a dozen times they repeat the statement at the 20 minute mark), it's obvious that the two ships are virtually identical, especially from the top. The differences from the front and rear are entirely due to change in the angle of the pylons. I rather like the NX-01. It streamlines the bulkiness of the Akira. I like that they put in the sensor dome under the saucer and the nacelles look very right for the tech. And I loved the opening credits of Enterprise. It was very original. I just wished they'd tried to be as original with the hero ship as they were with opening credits.

[@jankjason]

Someone taking inspiration from something doesn't necessarily always mean that someone is a "huge fan" of it.

[@thribs]

Avoozl Ah but the designer, a guy named Bob was a massive Archer fan and wanted to use the NX as the basis of his new ship. He called it the Akira Class because he loved the anime.

[@saquist]

Excellent Video Topic. I applaud your tackling the topic. and Drexler's involvement A Layman will see differently than Designers and Artist -Is the Pasture and Daedalus akin to Akira and ENTERPRISE: No. Pasture and Daedalus do not share nearly the exactly top profile view as Akira/Enterprise From the top view. a.The Saucer is exactly the same Ellipse Akira/Enterprise b.The Twin Booms are a distinct architecture to both c.The bow cut out in the saucer has the same depth d They both have the same raised platform between the booms e, They both have the central pod between the pylons albeit both have multiple angles f. They both have the supercharger detail on the twin boons (IN EXACTLY the same location g. They both have impulse engines (both pairs) in the exact same location despite not having the same mass distribution h. They both have the same hull plating shape in from of the saucer 75% of their unique similar design traits occur with the saucer area 66% of those unique saucer area details are in the exact same location Pasteur vs Daedalus a. The saucer is the same shape (Sphere) Pasteur and Daedalus top view are completely different aside from the Saucer. Pasteur vs Daedalus have no other similarities aside from configuration of the hull Pasteur doesn't have a neck Pasteur pylons angle back while Daedalus is straight Pasteur has impulse engines and Daedalus doesn't No similar details at all No similar positions -I prefer accuracy gentlemen. -Enterprise Refit and Reliant are the same design, different configuration. That's not two analogous derivative designs. They are meant to be contemporaries at the same time period. -Ships are designed from their plan view first and it's clear from the plan view they were extremely derivative . Personally: Yes Doug is right. I don't like Rick Berman and Brannon Braga for the horrible creative choices he's made (Drexler has attributed some statements to that end) I liked ENTERPRISE Theme Song. I like most things Drexler does. both the Akiraprise is not one of them because I prefer creativity more Artistry is a filed which places a deeply emotional work in close proximity with judgement and preference and it can hurt. I KNOW. Artist are usually introverted people who don't have an esay time expressing themselves except through their art. There is a deep connection for both. However art is meant for judgement and that is what I've come to accept as my time as an artist. So most critiques love or hate is fair as long as the critique aims at the art and not the artist.

[@markbernero9302]

The gold/copper-colored detail in the middle of the pontoons of the NX-01 and similar detail on the Akira,was based on a similar detail on the P-38 WWII fighter. In fact thats what these two ships was based on.

[@phantomzero2413]

I think the similarity between the two is evident if you pushed the torpedo launcher from the Akira down where it would be in line with the NX Class, and swept the nacelles up. Its not exact obviously, but you can't say the overall styling isn't very similar.

[@nicholasdickens2801]

Well it's 5:22pm, just need to charge my phone, so when I get back from work and getting my dinner I'm going to watch this later, just catching the first few minutes as a great teaser XD

[@AjdaGreat07]

Thanks Doug for acknowledging where the word Picnics came from.....

[@travelswithsi8932]

I love the Akira Class, from the front and the back its one of my fave designs. Also agree with Doug about 'mean spirit'. Ive left a number of Trek groups because of this factor. Either way, love this episode. Well done boys!

[@lucasbachmann]

Problem is that if they used the NX ship geometry and applied a TOS aesthetic instead of a TNG one all you get is a TOS Romulan Warbird. That would actually be a little consistent with an early Balance of Terror novelization where the new Romulan design was so similar to the constitution they were concerned about a starfleet spy. Daedalus and even Bonaventure class have a TOS aesthetic that is easier to accept as a TOS prequel. If B&B wanted to do more TNG they should not have pretended to be doing a prequel. The problem with the "boxed in by the TNG map" SOLUTIONS B&B tried to pitch wasn't setting - (see Voyager) - or Time (see Enterprise) because despite claiming the new premise would solve the problem ENT and VOY were still just TNG scripts that had little to do with the reason the shows were set where they were. And I was complaining on USENET back in 1996 - but not about DS9.

[@novax-ig9yt]

I personally never got the "Akirapirse" criticism. Totally agree with Samuel. Saucer looks similar from top view, and they both are Starfleet ships. But for me, that's where the similarities end. If I had to pick a ship the NX-01 most resembles, to me, it's the Loknar Class, that predates both. Besides, I think the NX-01 looks WAYYYYY better than the Akira!

[@ballroomscott]

Wow! Great episode guys! I also love it every time you get Doug Drexler on. Bonus thoughts: Tangentially related to this episode I also wanna thank Treckyards for their fair and honest treatment of everything Star Trek. I actually first found you through the video, "JJ Trek still sucks and here's why" because I was angry that those weren't the Trek I wanted. But after watching/listening to you guys I'm much more holistically accepting of all things Trek. There are still things about it that I have strong opinions of like or dislike. But I no longer get angry over things that aren't just the way I want them. ^_^

[@toddmallett9929]

i can't be certain but i think the back of the nx-01 saucer doors are for the inspection pods, thought i read that somewhere

[@thribs]

Enterprise was 2001, not 2004.

[@falconthefox]

I've always held that the similarity between the two was simply down to warp dynamics, It is a shape that works for warp field geometry. Look at the similar shapes for the most common ship types, The Miranda vs the Nebula, the Constitution vs Excelsior, Ambassador and Galaxy classes. all similar in general shape with frankly minor refinements. Not because said ships are in any way based on the previous designs but simply because that general shape works for generating a warp field. We see the same thing in say Aircraft and Naval ship designs. Shapes that work for their intended purpose generate similar results.

[@thetrekcollector976]

Great episode guys, I don't think they look that much a like. I loved the work Doug did on the NX-01 and I think she is a great design

[@philipgater6855]

the way i see it (in universe) the akira class is the evolution of the nx. the nx gets designed then re designed over and though the years until eventually you get the akira class

[@DarinRWagner]

While from a top-down view, the NX-01 does bare a strong resemblance to the Akira class, from virtually every other angle it looks (at least to ME) more like the Loknar class from FASA, which is a ship I happened to like.

[@DarthRepublican]

As someone who is old enough to have seen Enterprise during its initial run, I'm getting a huge kick out of this comparison. I remember a lot of the controversy and may or may not have participated in it. Quite frankly, I've always been able to see both sides of the argument. I think that Enterprise is a great looking ship but looking at it I can definitely see some network suit saying, "I really like the Akira, build something like that." Quite frankly I'm OK with both views.

[@czarpeppers6250]

Having been watching Enterprise again, in the second episode of the series you can see that the warp stabilizer also has an aft torpedo launcher in it. Not sure whether that stays there once they switch from the spacial torpedoes to photons, but it is at least for the spacial torps. Not sure how they get there from the armory, seems to be it would require a seriously complicated mechanism to get them there through the struts.

[@stevenheckert4515]

CzarPeppers perhaps it requires them to be externally loaded? rather than some sort of internal rail system they simply load them directly into the pod from space while at station OR to reload while out in space it requires a team and a shuttle pod to ferry them from storage nd load them into the pod. not very efficient but an aft weapon is generally a defensive weapon... your probably not going to have time to fire more than say 4-6 in an engagement anyway

[@czarpeppers6250]

Steven Heckert Those are all possibilities, but they seem like a rather inefficient way of doing so. I guess in emergency situations I suppose they could use the transporters too. Although it would be weird using the main transport pad for that, unless they had a dedicated transporter in the armory. Anyways, having a system that transports them through the struts isn't such a crazy idea on second thought. The systems used to transport shells and powder bags to the main guns on battleships were probably equally as complicated, and that was with early 20th century technology.

[@stevenheckert4515]

CzarPeppers I guess the way I see it... Most likely there is a separate fore and aft torpedo magazine and maybe a unassembled torpedo section somewhere amidships... And there may be some sort of conveyance system between the three... Maybe not a dedicated conduit in an NX class... But perhaps an overhead rail system in the corridors...and by the Akira era dedicated turbo lifts...

[@czarpeppers6250]

+Steven Heckert Sure is nice to talk to someone who doesn't get extremely bored when you're talking about the intricate inner workings of the NX-01, or any Star Trek ship in general. Cheers.

[@stevenheckert4515]

CzarPeppers hey I am always fascinated on figuring out how the sausage gets made... even fictional, futuristic sausage with supernova spices

[@foxpianocovers]

Personally, I was cheering when I saw the nx01 for the first time. It was so refreshing to not have to stomach ANOTHER saucer, neck, secondary hull, nacelles design. Voyager was a big disappointment in that regard. It's like they designed it to be instantly recognisable as the Ent D's little brother...

[@adamlytle2615]

Someone help me out here: Does the NX-01 deflector area have some sort of closable blast door thing? Now that I see it close-up, it looks like it could. That's a neat feature. If the deflector goes out, you wouldn't want it getting damaged by space debris.

[@wingsabre]

I was a critic of Enterprise when it started, and as I got older, I've learn to respect it more. Keep in mind, when Enterprise first came out, we didn't see that many renders of the ship, and when you mainly see low resolution top views of the ship compared to the Akira, it looked very similar and a bit lazy. Now that we have more high definition renderings, it's clearly different. My beef with the title sequence was the removal of Star Trek from it for the first 2 seasons. Having lyrics was different and jarring, but in the end, not offensive. As a whole though, the visuals on Ent were great and the production team behind that series should be commended for their work. The Xindi arch though was a miss for me, and I wished the series had been more of what season 4 was. Definitely a show that would have been better had it been syndicated, or aired on cable compared to a minor network.

[@morkofork]

I love Enterprise, show and ship alike. Doug is right about the hypocrisy, nobody gets heated about the Nebula class being a 'rip off' of the Miranda class (same saucer as the contemporary Enterprise class, low slung nacelles structure above the saucer). I think some Trek 'fans' aren't happy unless they are moaning about the latest iteration, TNG is the Love Boat in space, DS9 isn't exploration-ey enough, Voyager is not good, Enterprise has a ship that looks a bit like another, JJ-verse Enterprise is too big, Discovery looks weird etc etc.

[@1300l]

The difference is that the Nebula, Pasteur and others wasn't a hero ship. Also that a prequel to TOS should have more to do with TOS design than to post TNG

[@thribs]

1300l All Fed ships are heroes.

[@1300l]

Robert Hayes No, hero ships are the main ships from the Shows. Enterprise, Enterprise A and refit, Enterprise D, Voyager, Defiant, NX Enterprise and Discovery.

[@phantomzero2413]

That doesn't really work though. In canon the Nebula makes sense. The Nebula to the galaxy is what the Miranda was to the Connie. A cheaper, smaller alternative. One that has a number of shared parts thanks to being of the same design lineage, so no need to design a whole new ship with the fact that most of the ship was designed already. Similar parts for both for ease of replacement parts(Although this doesn't really hold true for star trek, replicating and all that) I liked Enterprise, but the first thing I thought when seeing the ship was, push that outboard module(warp field stabilizer) down, and swing the nacelles upwards, and it was practically an Akira.

[@thribs]

1300l Discovery is certainly no hero ship. That's obviously cannon fodder

[@Gigas0101]

I never really noticed the comparison between the NX-01 and the Akira, but now I kinda like both ships more.

[@marleymcleay9228]

I wish people were kinder to the artists, I view each designer like Ryan Church and Sean Hargreaves as contributing different thought processes and philosophies to bring Star Trek to life, I think it is always done with best interests despite subjectivity of success.. I appreciate the quick render of Discovery as well, unsure on who the artist is, but I look forward to seeing that one transpire as well. I never had an issue with the NX-01 it is a gorgeous yet robust design. love ENT!!!

[@DeusExAstra]

The NX-01 is basically the Akira geometry with parts stretched out, moved, etc, to make it "different enough", but the truth is that it's still basically the same idea.

[@rangerjima]

Well Doug I have to say my mom is an old Trekki and she loved Enterprise's theme.

[@1Kaisermerlin]

yeaah have mixed feeling about the song every time, but you cant resist to sing with it. SOmetimes getting even gosebumps.

[@VaderTheWhite]

Um, Commander, I think you are a little temporally confused there. Enterprise premiered in 2001, not 2004 (5 years after FC, not 8).

[@power543]

yes i get those dates confused as Enterprise finished in 2004 so i associate it with that. whoops, like my new HQ 3d renders tho i spent many hours on ;)

[@thribs]

Finished in 2005. :)

[@Intrepidthegenuine]

Enterprise fans have always had problems with timelines, thats why they are enterprise fans

[@psyslo]

When viewed side by side the NX definitely looks like the original design that inspired the Akira. Maybe the ship designer had a famous relative that was captain of an NX class ship ?

[@petero.7487]

Honestly, I was worried more than the vessel would look like the Daedalus (which Drexler wanted, and truthfully would have been more consistent). When I first saw NX-01, the resemblance to the Akira was pretty obvious, though my primary issue was continuity issues early on, and the temporal cold war. Drexler explained that his bosses did not want the Daedalus, and he's an employee and has to follow the dictates of his superiors, and as a result picked an off the shelf design, which the Akira was the best choice, and worked it into the NX-01. While Drexler would often point out (and correctly), that all Star Trek ships, particularly from a given era (TOS, TMP, TNG) follow a common theme: The issue had to do with degrees of similarity, much like how almost all human beings have basic characteristics in common, but we can quickly say "those two look alike". I think it's the booms and a circular primary hull. Their size are otherwise totally different, one's nacelles are up, the other down, and one has an engineering hull the other lacks.

[@cdlord80]

The NX-01 is my favorite and I appreciate the Akira too. Both are great ships.

[@CRocketSlim]

I really feel like the Miranda class should be brought up more in regard to the the NX class... don't forget that originally, it was going to have its engines above the saucer before the design got flipped to make the ship more visually distinctive from the USS Enterprise- it's an obvious design lineage, but Starfleet ships (including ALL Enterprises, and Voyager) follow. Starfleet ships without the secondary hull always at least had an outrigger* (note: I'm not counting the FASA etc designs as canon, but you'd be correct to call them cool in their own right) *Edit: don't forget the Kelvin was designed later

[@thatHARVguy]

And the recent Franklin.

[@CaptRobertApril]

I'll let Doug address the question of whether or not they were ordered to just use the Akira as-is and what we got was a compromise. What Doug said about ENT being the first show with the internet, well, ask Ron Moore and Brannon Braga about the back and forth on AOL during DS9 and VOY. That being said, I think it's fair to say that ENT was largely crucified for VOY's sins.

[@shinjofox]

Centaur class has a forward facing shuttle bay, but not in the same location.

[@paulcoffey2667]

l was comparing my eaglemoss models whilst looking you guys / but have you noticed that if you hold the Akira straight on as. if it's coming towards you / the torpedo launcher if a torpedo is fired will totally destroy the bridge ?

[@jaysus620]

I genuinely think that if 'First Contact' had had so much as ONE sustained, detailed shot of the underside of the Akira, this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion. I understand why they didn't have that because, as mentioned, it wasn't the hero ship, and also because 'Enterprise' wasn't even a glint in anyone's eye at that point.

[@terryforsdyke306]

When Voyager finished airing on Sky One in the UK they ran a teaser trailer for Enterprise, a voice-over saying something along the lines of "before Janeway or Picard, before Sisko, Spock or Kirk, there was Enterprise", and they showed a top down silhouette of the Akira, which I knew well because at the time I was obsessed with the Star Trek Armada games. I agree that they are definitely diferant ships but from certain angles they look very similar. I have no problem with ether design "the Akira is the TNG Miranda Class" no, that is wrong, the Miranda Class is the TNG Miranda Class (I am pretty sure the Miranda was in infinitely more episodes of TNG than the Akira), the Nebula is the equivalent of the Miranda for TNG, and I am pretty sure Miranda was in more episodes of TNG, DS9 and Voyager than the Akira.

[@frankharr9466]

The Akira also has a stronger chin. I also think that part of why the Enterprise theme being different was good was because it was in a different political reality. No Federation, primarily. And I think Mr. Drexler is delightful even if his mike is a little loud and he has a lot to get off his chest.

[@saijex]

I first saw the NX in I believe a TV Guide magazine I was able to talk my mom into buying me. I totally thought it looked like the Akira, amd didn't care for it. I think I couldn't even tell if the nacelles were pointing up or down. They only gave the top view. But, it moved totally different in the show than the Akira, and after I actually saw it in action, I didn't have any problems with it. It's still one of my favorite designs to this day. Hater's gonna hate.

[@dhindaravrel8712]

Doug Drexler, I love you. In the platonic sense, of course. Megaphone and cattle prod - that's as precise as one can get.

[@lemerald]

I very much like the _NX_-class as a pre-Federation ship, it just needs to be a bit less _Akira_-y while everything up to TMP era needs to be technologically retconned (subtly anyway).

[@enterprise-h312]

I have more issue with it being a saucer than it resembling the Akira-class. The same issues existed for the Animated Series' Bonaventure but for the longest time that was not considered to be canon.

[@BoingotheClown]

I always thought the NX01 looked like the Lochnar class rigate from Star Trek The Role Playing Game.

[@freagarthach4228]

When I first saw ENT's title sequence, I thought: they are finally, finally using the anime approach to the opening of the show, and I LOVED it. And the song, the song is beautiful, the lyrics are cleverly written and reflect the idea of the show. What is there not like? About the comparison. To compare it from the production stand point is stupid, sorry. The many designer themselves said to you many times, that producers and CG guys are changing things to their liking without consulting the designers. I don't care if it's a whim of producer that these ships came to be similar, because I don't think they are. Yes, they have similar parts, but so do other StarFleet ships. I look at everything from the ST universe point: NX came first, then Akira. We don't know anything about Akira history. Maybe, just maybe, StarFleet engineers redesigned an old NX-class, or based Akira upon it. This is a normal thing to base something of something else.

[@paulwarren9927]

Uh, no. The song was originally a Rod Stewart song written *years* before ST:Enterprise. So it wasn't even an original theme song. :(

[@XTINFILM]

You've got to be kidding me.

[@pervandyke]

I love both ships, but I tend to agree with the idea that they are in fact quite different. I may be slightly biased, as Enterprise was actually my favorite trek, (I know I know, burn the heretic) but I would never confuse the two ships. In universe, I'm with the crowd who thinks the Akira was just a throwback to the NX.

[@kjpedersen778]

John Payne's proposal for the design of the NX-01 was my favorite. That said, I never disliked the final design even if it does remind me a great deal of the Akira. I like the Akira a lot. But I like the NX-01 even more. In fact, it is my second favorite Star Fleet ship, following the TOS Enterprise. My real disappointment with the ships of ENT was the fact that there were none with the spherical primary hull. I would have loved to have seen Daedalus and Daedalus-like starships on the screen.

[@donaldhill3823]

I have no issue with these ships looking vaguely the same but I like this basic shape for a Star Fleet ship.

[@SIG442]

The NX-01 and Akira are all in the same family tree I like to think, the Titan IS a Akira by fact. For the Missile pod, the Akira class ships comes in many variants. Some don't even have that pod and others may have a science dish/pod instead. There should be a version with a hangar bay in that pod with a thicker and wider pylon. It's just like any other ship based up on the mission, not a default feature. I don't think it may even really bother. Basing the nacelle styles on whether a ship is the same or not? In case you forgot, the TOS Enterprise was refitted getting new style nacelle's. Would that mean the ship is completely different or even new? No! Of course not! It just tells there is new technology for that specific part of the ship. If you have a new window for your car, that doesn't make the car completely different either does it? I hope I made that point clear, haha (no bad blood intended of course) For the Enterprise series, I loved it. I even made a T'Pol character in STO which look very similar to the real deal. I love the ship, I have it in my STO hangar as well.

[@ak102986]

The error is that Star Trek Enterprise is supposed to be a prequel. So it should not look like something else. It should look less advanced. The reason why the Daedalus/Medical ship is fine is the Medical ship is future, meaning it could be based on Daedalus.

[@ReaverLordTonus]

I think the reason the nx-01 rubs people the wrong way was that after a long line of impressive Enterprise designs, the sovereign class being the latest, this one felt lazy. The fact that the producers wouldn't let the designer be as creative as they've been when it came to designing the Enterprise of all ships, is a major slap in the face to the franchise. Given the poor handling of the show in its early beginnings it just shows the overall lack of passion paramount (at least those higher up) has fallen into over the years.

[@llamapi3]

Doesn't bother me at all. All cars have a major similarity since they were created. 4 Wheels. Does that mean every new car is a copy of the Model T?

[@c.a.cunningham5424]

I think what bugs people about the NX-01 being so close to the Akira as that it puts it into Miranda/Nebula/Akira design lineage rather than the Constitution/Galaxy/Sovereign design lineage like the ships it's named after.

[@Seccc]

Could you do a show on the Pasteur?/Olympic class.

[@docvaliant721]

Good models , Never put those two together in my mind. I think the Akira looks pretty good and others that look similar that I have seen in STO.

[@RobertVollrath]

I like both designs. I see this as a non-issue. I like most if not all of the design work from the prime Trek universe. The Kelvin universe has only one design I like. The Yorktown Star Base is the only design I care for in the new movies but I'm getting into Kelvin time line fan designs. I do public art and people sometimes hate my art and I'm fine with that because that is their true feelings.

[@SciFiFan2012]

If a ship has to be flipped in order to see 'similarities' then it's not really similar then. This was a non issue to me when ENT was being designed, and still a non issue.

[@rarevhsuploads4995]

The top/bottom views do show marked similarities & now thanks to Trekyards the aft/dorsal views look quite different to me. Akira class is an attractive design so nothing wrong in universe & out in continuing aspects of that into other Federation ships. I don't know why the similarities are being interpreted as criticism?

[@clouless7032]

The hosts are a captain and a commander - I vote that Drexler, Sternbach and Eaves should be called admirals from now on and I would never get sick or tired to hear or see them on the show (great one btw). On the NX-01 and Akira: the Akira looks badass, BUT the NX-01 is almost sexy on the outside - nice curves, sleek and tech wise adequate; T'Pol brings two of these aspects to the inside.+ a part from my Akira point :) And at the end of the day, it will always be science fiction, and I am here to appreciate whatever show or movie is made for me as a consumer. I never was too militant on TOS/FASA/TMP/TNG/DS9/Voyager or Enterprise. Only thing that bugged me was/is the JJ-Verse (Captain Foley I feel you), but I also watch these movies and enjoy them for what they are - entertainment! Let the haters hate and shake it off...isn't there a song?

[@davidanttila465]

I can relate to the pain of the Enterprise team. I my self have had over 20 years of abuse and insults from the internet and because of it I've mostly left social media as in forums and non Facebook and KZbin websites.

[@CybershamanX]

27:22 I was really disappointed when they changed the theme song for Enterprise to a more uptempo "toe tapper". I don't know the story behind that decision but it felt like they were trying to appease someone...either a group of fans or studio execs. It wasn't like the change to DS9's opening theme. In that case, there was precedent as it reflected the changing role and position of the station; from the almost sad, distant, and lonely tune of a broken down, musty fringe outpost to the "march" that reflected how it had become the powerful linchpin which was guarding the very gates of the Federation. But the Enterprise theme change was something else. And it came at a time when things were looking pretty bad in the story arcs, too. But anyway, yep, some people just like to bitch for bitching's sake. Whatever. I think (hope) that we as a species will grow out of it... ;)

[@GregoryMCMAHON817]

Very cool video.

[@dragoontype00alphaz19]

Thunderchild class from STO is based on akira. Thunderchild little biger tho the another ship base on the akira to but Can't remember it name

[@xanderguldie]

Didn't expect that great speech from Doug about the whole Internet trolling thing. I totally agree, there are so many frustrated people on the internet and they are very vocal to the point that they can ruin a show. While there are many who would like it but they just don't find the need to comment about it.

[@weirdkitty07]

Enterprise started in 2001, not 2004. By late 2004 they were being cancelled, and went of the air in May 2005. The show had four years. The design doesn't bother me at all. If you look at cars for instance, often 'retro' car models, especially sports cars, will hearken back to earlier models, to the Akira is taking off of the NX, even though one was canonically introduced opposite the other.

[@catinabox2878]

I love the Akira class. But as far as I'm concerned, the NX class is a nod, or a tribute to the Akira class. (Or vice versa if you go by lore). Either way, it's all good.

[@semiproparrot9985]

i like the fact that the 2 ships look simmilar

[@CtrlOptDel]

From the front, the Akira class looks very much like a Klingon ship...

[@RetroBerner]

I can't wait 7 days.. yer killing me Captain..

[@rochat]

I never got the Akira/NX01 thing and you said what I've always thought. All Federation star ships have similarities and share a general aesthetic. People are just harsh on it because it's Enterprise, which is a whole other argument/discussion. As for the title sequence, I don't think many people have a huge problem with the sequence, just the god awful Rod Stewart song. I mean, soft rock isn't my thing in the first place, but imo it just didn't fit. Do a YT search for "Star Trek Enterprise Alternate Intro - Archer's Theme" for those of you who haven't seen it. MUCH better.

[@CommandLineVulpine]

As you know I love Enterprise. So when I say I don't really like the intro I think that can be taken as an unbiased opinion. We'd just gone through two series of Star Trek without Enterprise, they couldn't do the classic intro so they had to go just with an orchestra(which is fine). Here was their chance to bring back the age old "These are the Voyages" intro. It would have been a simple no mess way to make all Trek fans happy, instead of buckling under hte pressure of "well all the other popular shows right now have the alt rock intro so we should too" Do yourself a favor and look up "Star Trek Enterprise Alternate Opening Credits (Fan Made)" on youtube, and try to say that intro wouldn't be better. Especially considering if it was the network backed intro they could have cut it together even better.

[@MH001]

I love Enterprise as well. When I first heard about it I thought it was gonna absolute crap, but now it's my favourite series, ship and crew. I get what people are saying about the intro, it was quite different and a more similar intro like the fan made ones might have been more suitable. However, given what Enterprise was trying to convey, humanities first real steps into the unknown, and the journey it took to get there, I think the song choice fits perfectly.

[@CommandLineVulpine]

Yes it fits really well but that's sort of the problem it's kinda... Try hard.

[@jerobriggs6861]

Enterprise came out in 2001, not 2004. 5 years, not 8 years between First Contact and Enterprise.

[@nox5555]

there are some good points made in this video about the hate for Enterprise and the NX. Enterprise was a bit weaker than the other series, or atleast felt that way because it was shorter , and it had the internet and alot of digital media like games to compete against. the intro wasdifferent, and the horrible remixing for later seasons didnt helped with the fans. but the clips shown realy saved it for me.

[@dawfydd]

Yeah i do believe like others the problem is mostly to do with factors out of control of the model, because it is a good ship. If the Nx class came first, there would be no problem, If enterprise had been more popular i think there would've been *less* of a problem, and i do think you can see somebody sat down with the Akira and went "how can we make it different make keep it similar" Each point covered is a "well lets move this back, and take out the windows because it'll be smaller!" lets add a torpedo launcher to enterprise but its only a rear launcher for some reason, and it is blocked by the ship from being useful.. But yeah both ships are cool, i love the Akira its my favorite ship, second is the Excelsior so i cannot hate the NX, it just looks cool more sub like which i really do dig.

[@ZeroB4NG]

I can certainly agree that the Internet being a thing when ENT aired created a mob mentality. I remember after every episode i went to the discussions forum on some Trek board and we nitpicked it apart in record time, every little error or inconsistency was laid out in the open. I may have noticed a few things, and it is normal for Trek fans to notice things, but when they all meat up after watching an episode, everyone found a different error and then the laundry list just got pretty extensive, on one hand i love the nitpicking, i enjoy the episode while i watch it, then ... the one thing i specifically remember though is that there were 3 Users with Spock avatars and they HATED on the show, for me it was harmless fun, i like nitpicking and eventually fixing those plothose with nerd logic or finding an explanation why a certain thing was that way etc. but these guys were just blatantly hating the show, yet commenting on every episode what they hated about it... and it wasn't even continuity errors or anything. It got to the point where i just stopped reading posts of anyone with a Spock avatar ;P ...and i bet you the same thing will happen to Discovery. You just need to look at the online reaction to the Ship reveal teaser. Personally i thought the Intro song was great (i hated when they changed it with Season 3), but you have to keep in mind, that generation of Kids was into Hip Hop and Gangster Rap and Techno and generally just shit music... they simply don't have an appreciation for Rock Music to begin with. It was a departure from the usual classical Trek music and IMHO that was ok, but changing it was caving to the crybabies and i hated that... and the music actually sounded worse.

[@mijnmening]

I hated enterprise when it first aired because it was a prequel and all I wanted and still want is a sequel to voyager. But the ship design is excellent its my 2nd favorite enterprise after the E! In recent years its the show I have re-watched the must out of all the trek shows.

[@jonathonearl482]

Question: Why does the design of the NX-01 resemble that of the Akira more than any other ship design? That could be very easily explained! Think of Starfleet as having three different teams of architectural engineers. Think of the architects that designed the NX-01 as a company from Starfleet called for example: Team NX-01. Starfleet has a few companies as a whole. Team NX-01 designs the NX-01 Enterprise the first warp 5 ship. The architects of Team NX-01 get old, but teach the next generation their concepts and the process continues over and over. Team NX-01 still exists hundreds of years later with new architects. The new Team NX-01 architects design the Akira class ships as well. While a different team of architectural engineers create the design for the Sovereign Class ships. The architects for the Sovereign Class formed a company called Team Constitution. Team Constitution is a younger company than Team NX-01 with a different design in their concepts adding a neck and secondary hull to their ship designs. Team Constitution starts off with the Constitution Class ships such as Kirk's ship. When Team NX-01 comes out with the Akira, Team Constitution comes out with the Enterprise E (Sovereign Class ships). There is one more company younger than Team NX-01 but older than Team Constitution called Team Discovery. The architects of Team Discovery have an even more distinctive approach in designing ships. Team Discovery built much larger ships designing their ships with larger rectangular cylinder warp nacelles each with more than one bussard collector. Team Discovery also designed their ships with larger and flatter secondary hulls. Team Discovery is the first company of architects who designed their ships with antenna-less deflector dishes and also the first to have non-tilted pylons to the warp nacelles. Team Discovery first designed the U.S.S. Discovery, later they designed the Galaxy Class federation ships. Later companies worked together switching their ideals. Team Discovery and Team Constitution created hybrid ships like the Excelsior Class ships.

[@gbot94hitachi]

can you make a video about the Voth City Ship?

[@Trekyardswebseries]

if/when we get the 3D model of her...then yes!

[@gbot94hitachi]

Trekyards nice

[@CaptainForsyth]

the centaur class and the Ares class are very similar. everyone is ok with that.

[@My-Name-Isnt-Important]

One is fan made the other was actually on DS9. Its not the same thing really. With the Akira and the NX-01 you had the studio take design elements from one ship and then use it in what is suppose to be a design that is older than the original series vessels. Most people find it rather lazy and not original.

[@XTINFILM]

The Centaur wasn't a hero ship. Ares is fan fic.

[@noneuno53]

1st i saw it, i sad spin on akira. thanks for yours times.

[@noneuno53]

akira is my 2nd love in the ships.

[@noneuno53]

if you put a store to back it. for me it would be. "the 20year old cousin of the senior engineer on the project of exploration. was more aggressives of design ships. 37 years later that cousin made the akira." i know i am not as good at story's than all of the would. :D free more power to you.

[@Dreadtothink]

Berman and Braga deserve praise for the contribution to the franchise but also criticism for dropping the ball with enterprise. It should not have been cancelled and at the end of the day. This was Star Trek after all! It's not just vindictive internet trolling as Doug suggests, you can't argue with bad ratings when other sci fi shows were successful at the time and from that you have to conclude ENT was not hitting the high watermarks of its forebears in terms of story telling particularly. Criticism of the show came from genuine passion for something they love to be great and amazing and frustration that it was failing to capture the imagination of its audience like Star Trek once did. The price of that was 13 years off the air and JJ Abrams. I think some fans can be forgiven for their frustration to be honest.

[@histguy101]

Ricardo Warner Enterprise wasn't cancelled because of quality. The show received more and more praise by critics as it went on. Ratings for Trek were on a consistently sinking slope throughout all of DS9 and Voyager, and again, not because of quality. TNG, which had the highest ratings of all, had no competition, and even with its success, couldn't hold a candle to any sitcom or reality show. Enterprise was cancelled just a few months before its network went off the air. The only shows saved from UPN(and brought to the new CW), were a few sitcoms and reality shows. Star Trek can't just exist on TV indefinitely, especially in such a competitive market....even Law & Order is now off the air.

[@Dreadtothink]

Christus Regnet that's generous to be honest. If it was a quality show, the fact is it would have seen out its run at least.

[@Intrepidthegenuine]

3:21 - Enterprise came out in 2001. 4:16 - Its the same goddamn ship with the nacelles positioned differently! 4:37 - The monstrosity below the Akira is what you get when you get rid of the cool things about the Akira. 6:01 - “Federation designers keep to a general aesthetic”; yes they do Samuel but the time period the show was set in was PRE-FEDERATION. Putting a ship design like the NX-01 into that time period is like shooting a film at the turn of the 20th century with characters driving model-T’s that have sat-navs, limited slip differential (LSD), four wheel drive, air conditioning, a fibreglass shell and all sorts of other shit that hasn’t been invented yet. That WOULD be cool, but it wouldn’t FIT. 6:11 - Here he goes with the apologetics again, yawn. 7:15 - The image on the bottom is the closest to the ring-ship enterprise featured in TMP, do away with the saucer and I might have supported that as the hero ship instead. Current NASA aesthetics blended with the ring-ship concept is just one idea that could have been a better fit with the time setting. 7:28 - If true, had I been in Dougs shoes I would have told the execs to fuck off. It might get me fired but then I wouldn’t have to polish a turd and get the flack for it from the fans 8:37 - Straw-man fallacy, not the same thing Samuel. The Daedalus came first, the Olympic class came second. And more to the point, the Olympic class FITS THE TIME PERIOD IT IS SET IN. 9:30 - The comparison is flawed once again sameul, both ships share the same aesthetic because they exist in the same time period. Force a Miranda class 100 years before and it becomes a problem. 24:38 - I think Doug is confusing “mean-spirited” with abject disappointment, and fear. The idea of a prequel for me (before enterprise) set off alarm bells. I’ve seen prequels and remakes prior to enterbloodyprise and they all sucked. Hollywood at that time was on the prequel bandwagon and seeing this happen to Trek was for me an instant hostile reaction. 22:44 - The show was called “Enterprise” until just after its 3rd season (episode 3 according to the wiki) premiered when the studio slapped on the Star Trek sticker. This FACT needs to be re-iterated and drummed into peoples head. 24:55 - Doug kinda has a point about B&B; BUT they didn’t have the balls to stand up to the execs and from the fans point of view, the buck publicly stopped with them. It isn’t that much different to how sports fans blame the manager of a football (not hand-egg ;) ) team when they play badly and that kind of thing happened long before the Internet; and it still does. Doug makes a point about “mean spirited fans” on the Internet, sure perhaps, but is it any wonder? Fans can only judge the show by the end product, and it is only natural that when that end product fails to meet its promises that they will direct their anger, and frustration with brutal honesty directly towards to people who made the show; B&B. You can’t say that the show failed because people on the internet slagged it off. Look at what Enterprise was competing against within the genre of sci-fi on TV; Stargate, Firefly, Farscape, and Battlestar Galactica are just 4 examples. People were watching shows like those instead of Enterprise. Enterprise wasn’t just some isolated sci-fi show, it is the 4th spin-off show within a massive franchise that has built up a loyal fan-base for over 30 years at the time. It is only natural that there are expectations, that were never met. Enterprise was a car crash of a show, in need of being put out of its misery - all be it four years too late. I get the sincere impression that Doug put a lot of love and effort into designing the NX-01, and please believe me when I say that my criticism of his ship isn’t personal towards him in the slightest. I’m writing this after listening to his comments in this video and he has certainly has given me pause for thought. I get the impression that he had the worst possible assignment; redesign an established ship to look 200 years older to appease ignorant network execs that just don’t give a flying fuck about the artistic integrity of the IP they own, just the profit they can make out of it. I applaud the very fact that he tried, really tried to do the best he could. But I’m a Star Trek fan; the viewer, the consumer. And after 15 years, I still can’t stand the sight of this ship. The NX-01 to me is a symbol; the end result of a gradual decline in the quality of Trek. It is a symbol of the lost opportunity to fulfil the promise that a Trek prequel premise afforded. It is a symbol of ignorance towards a show (TOS) that spawned a huge following that was so dedicated that it was briefly saved from cancellation in the 60’s through the efforts of the fans.

[@histguy101]

Genuine_Intrepid Ent was ALSO saved from cancellation through fan campaigns. If you just watch the show, you'll love the ship too. It does not feel or look like a 24th century ship AT ALL. It feels more like steel hull, riveted and welded together. Akira is just a background ship. It may stand out from so many utterly awful other background ships, but it's not better than the NX

[@Intrepidthegenuine]

I saw the entire series actually, when it first aired and was around on the Internet at the time of the save enterprise scam that was happening, and the fan campaigns were laughably representing only a miniscule fraction of the overall number of people that call themselves fans of trek. The akiraprise offered nothing different to what had come before, no attempt to think outside the box and create something that is truly primitive to fit into a time period 100 years before TOW. The flipped an akira upside down, moved a few bits arount here and there, chopped a few bits off in other places and slapped the Enterprise name onto it. The thing is a bleeding eyesore!

[@histguy101]

Genuine_Intrepid I'm talking about during late season 3, when Ent was about to be cancelled, and production actually stopped. A large signature and ad campaign was initiated. Eventually the show was renewed for a fourth season. Producers credited the campaign with having a great impact in saving the show. I'm sorry you don't like it, but you not liking it doesn't make the show "bad." You seem very bitter. Perhaps a break from Trek would be beneficial.

[@Intrepidthegenuine]

The campaign only gave the show a reprieve, execs realised that they could recoup their losses by making sure the show would have enough episodes to sell in syndication (they needed 100 or more) . if the producers had used their common sense (like not setting their prequel on a ship that never existed for one) during the pre-production of the show, it would never have been in the position of it needing saving in the first place. I've been on a break from Trek since Nemesis, hopefully Discovery will finally be a series that can be worthy of the Trek name and complement the existing 4 shows and 10 films.

[@histguy101]

Genuine_Intrepid Pre production on Enterprise was 3 months. It's a good show if you give it a chance.

[@roberttauzer7042]

Ships do share some similarities - it's irrelevant really. Ships are allowed to be similar, and many things have major differences. If you take really close look and dissect part by part you can realize that NX was made on basics of akira - making it look older and smaller which is weird, but better that then if they had used original akira model, which they had planned. NX imo looks very good, they have conveyed idea of simpler, flimsier and older ship, yet it has elegance and simplicity.

[@isfj1009]

Awesome!!!