Trimming Aircraft in Flight Sims: How to Do It Like a Pro

I spent a decade teaching this, team - don't use the trim gauges unless setting them for take-off, you want to hold zero stick pressure in level flight.
Let's DO THIS!
Tim Davies, Fast Jet Performance (www.fastjetperformance.com)
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[@speedbird8326]

Day one on RAAF pilots course: “Trim or Fail”. Best advice I ever received.

[@FastJetPerformance]

I like that - I'm going to use it, good knowledge, many thanks!

[@robd2184]

Ricky gervais as an FI “ whatever , no one cares !” 😂. I went to Minhad a few times flying the airlink out of BZZ with the 757 , when we had the contract . Quite an exotic little trip

[@bryanbishop2377]

Good! I can feel your Track IR anger. Take your weapon and strike it down and your journey to the VR side will be complete!

[@raptorman0]

Tim I have a goal, to quit the booze and join your training in the new year. It's a plan I hope I can achieve.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Clive, if you want to do that - I'll do it with you as an accountability partner, I promise.

[@Graham183]

Good luck to you Clive and god bless.......I'd love to be able to do the same thing 👍

[@havinganap]

You can do it Clive! We all believe in you.

[@stephenlocke3704]

I always find the F5 creeps up/down in attitude and speed without touching the controls. Will need to give this some more practise. Another great video, although you're not fooling anyone. You got that trick with the Burj Al Arab nailed down and needed an excuse for the video! 😂

[@FastJetPerformance]

YOU SIT ON A THRONE OF LIES! 🤣

[@BringTheRain]

Love it! Great advice. Hope the F-5 module in DCS gets some love from ED in 2023. Merry Christmas!

[@FastJetPerformance]

Same, it does need a bit of love to be honest!

[@sparrowlt]

laughs in the 2024 update joke

[@SDsc0rch]

that opening....! how many times did you have to try that to get it right? :)

[@FastJetPerformance]

First comment gangster! Seriously it was the first try, I was shocked myself, lol!

[@SDsc0rch]

@@FastJetPerformance sweet :)

[@Tome4kkkk]

I appreciate you choosing the F-5E for this bit as it seems a bit more touchy than some of the rest of the aircraft in DCS.

[@paulybassman7311]

Hi Tim. Love the channel. Could you Kick My Arse in getting dcs up and running? I need it to happen.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Enroll on PRIMO stating 15th January 23 - that gives you 3 weeks to get alll setup and check the description to the video for my setup, that should help as a guide.

[@paulybassman7311]

Don't think I'll receive my new pc by then. But let's see. 👍🇬🇧

[@GotSpaceGame]

I find trimming hecka difficult in sims as compared to the but of GA flying I've done. Since nobody wants to invent a force feedback flight struck, how do you get the trim settled so easily without feeling the back pressure coming off the stick?

[@hotdogdcs2761]

It's just down to visual cues, the hotizon, shadows, instruments. With all the Jets ive had a go in on DCS you can spot it almost instantly. I suppose having never really flown I wouldn't know any diferent, so it's probably just an issue of learning new habits for you..? There is a force feedback stick out there at the minute, The Brunner CLS-E force feedback Joystick. Its expensive though!

[@ligmasack9038]

you could get a "Butt-Kicker" for your chair; it vibrates at varying intensities for Buffet, Stall, Etc.

[@jaromirandel543]

Buy VPforce Rhino.

[@deaddropholiday]

"Trimming?" - You mean two hundred metre height oscillations every statute mile isn't normal?

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

No. You are being too ham-fisted, and/or the aircraft is grossly out of trim.

[@deaddropholiday]

@@paradoxicalcat7173 And you are taking me too literal.

[@goodviewfromuphere120]

That;s the sort of thing my cadets want to do down the Derwent Valley, but in a Grob Tutor!

[@GabberBeastTV]

nice tips Peace Scrub

[@jaromirandel543]

It is not possible to trim like a pro with joystick without force feedback. In real aircraft you hold the stick and trim until you feel no force on stick. Much easier than doing it opposite way.

[@billramsey2564]

Check limits, Select, Hold, Trim. Check indications. Simples

[@MADDOG-sq9oj]

it feels like you're trying to talk about 10 different things at the same time

[@simtaylor61]

1: Had to be a midday flight. Because only “Mad Dogs And Englishmen Go Out In The Midday Sun”. And after blowing through that hotel, it’s easy to see and hear (due to your accent) you are, as a few of my Kiwi buddies would say, “A Mad English Baastad!”😉🤣 2: If I wasn’t in the US and I had a normal work schedule I’d be in your school in a Hollywood heartbeat

[@FastJetPerformance]

Thanks, Sim, lol

[@ArchOfficial]

You might want to upgrade from the Warthog if you're serious. A lot better kit out there nowadays. Winwing offers a comparable but superior dual throttle and VKB offers quite good sticks, as does Virpil and Winwing. I reckon you can afford it so it might be worth it.

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

Just beware the software for Winwing. The drivers are written by a Chinese company and it "phones home" for no apparent reason.

[@ArchOfficial]

@@paradoxicalcat7173 I had forgotten about that, I don't know if it was ever determined whether they're a spying operation or not. If you're worried about that, Virpil does make good throttles as well, and if you have an issue with Belarus or more specifically shipping from Belarus (Some countries have a large extra tax now due to obvious reasons) then you might want to wait for VKB's TECS. Although the Warthog throttle is...alright. Not good by modern standards, but not bad.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Thank you, I appreciate the advice and will look into these new throttles and sticks 👍

[@hotdogdcs2761]

Fitting a Joystick extension is the one thing that improved my flying experience most...(😏) There are stick extensions for all the brands out there. A guy on eBay makes then for the warthog too, quite cheap. Will allow your TM Warthog to survive a lil longer. After that I'd say for your next best single upgrade, get a Joystick base from Virpil. A Virpil base will fit a TM grip and extension just fine. And the difference in feeling and quality is significant. You can also fit diferent Cams and springs inside the base so you could can tweak how the stick centering feels. There is very little difference in throw between the TM Throttle and the Virpil throttle. Not enough to justify the expense if that's all you're looking for. There are however, a HUGE ammount of hats and buttons on the Virpil Throttle. I have an entire hat switch just for diferent camera angles! The Throttle with the biggest throw and arguably closest to the real feel would be the big F-18 win wing replica but it is big! There are a tonne of third party gadgets and addons to breathe a new lease of life into a Warthog throttle, worth looking at if you still love it, as many do! Anyway, great vid, miss the F-5. Hopefully see you in Jan. (Edited for Maximum innuendo!)

[@ArchOfficial]

@@hotdogdcs2761 The main thing is that Warthog design is flawed and causes stiction and static friction and the build quality is just poor anyway. Warthog will probably die entirely once TECS comes out and people don't need to buy Warthog for a cheapish decent throttle anymore.

[@moomin1971]

Great channel. Would you know who makes the RAF knee board?

[@ComdrStew]

Same problem in VR, the camera is set too far back. I usually have to move my head back and hit the VR reset to get it in the correct position. Wish they would put in a slider to set the position for each plane for the VR and TrackIR reset button.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Try Zoom View on an axis - that's what I did.

[@Paul-cj5wg]

@@FastJetPerformance that works with track IR however in VR you only get zoom and spyglass zoom which work with a keybind full on/off no in between option. There is a option to set a Axis zoom but doesn't work in VR (or I've not managed to get it working) .

[@ComdrStew]

@@FastJetPerformance Zoom axis does not work in VR. That's what I use to do with TrackIR though.

[@FastJetPerformance]

@@ComdrStew ah, yes, I was in Track IR - the only thing I do in VR is move my head back, re-center the VR asked them sit back in the right place and I'm obviously closer then.

[@Orkose]

Yu can map the button to change your seat position on VR. “Cockpit camera forward”, “down” etc etc . 👍

[@redtela]

LEGEEEENDD!!!

[@FastJetPerformance]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Narb5245]

Tim does trimming with fa18' FCS differ much from what you are showing here with the F5? Nice vid btw.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Yes, it does - have a search for my 'F18 trimming into the E-Bar' vid - it shows exactly how to trim the F18 👍

[@Narb5245]

@@FastJetPerformance perfect, found it. Thanks!

[@MrRasta2k]

Legénd!! :)

[@farazmahmood7805]

Hey does anyone know his email I want to get in touch with him

[@FastJetPerformance]

tim at channel name .com 👍

[@michaelthomson779]

Awesome opening sequence! What is the background track?

[@FastJetPerformance]

I'll add it to the description for you!

[@incargeek]

Merry Christmas FJP and FAM! V-V clear.

[@FastJetPerformance]

V-V clear to you too hombre - have a great Christmas!

[@MattJones675GR9]

Try trimming the Just Flight Hawk T1 in MSFS. Its a bloody pain 😢

[@russellharris5072]

For head tracking,try Tobii eye tracker.A bit pricey but very good,I don't use the eye tracking bit just the head tracking.................

[@FastJetPerformance]

One of my students has just got his setup so we're all interested in how it performs, many thanks.

[@russellharris5072]

@@FastJetPerformance When I first got it (sim u/d 9),it didn't have all six degrees of freedom.When update 10 arrived it started working properly and continues to do so.One bugette you may run into is when looking say at the runway on the downwind for more than a few seconds,the forward view will be canted slightly in that direction.No problem,just look at the screen center and press F12 twice and bobshruncle.....................................

[@FastJetPerformance]

@@russellharris5072 thanks Russell, much appreciate your advice, will pass on.

[@mayflynut]

Very Helpful. Thank you! Radial9

[@FastJetPerformance]

Radial9 LAD LAD LAD!

[@grahamthebaronhesketh.]

Great Video again Tim.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Thank you, Graham - hope you are doing well and best wishes this festive period.

[@grahamthebaronhesketh.]

@@FastJetPerformance Merry Christmas to you too Squadron Leader. May your God go with you.

[@garethroberts9223]

Lost me at 'computer game'

[@suecobandito8954]

More coffee I think.

[@alistairbradford410]

How much does it cost to get a set up and learn more about flying fast jets.?, I want to be a fighter pilot more than anything, through hard work and determination I flipped what was the worst year of my life to the best year of my life, my development has been almost a miracle, the start of 2022 I was failing GCSEs and had some confidence issues. My mum was then diagnosed with cancer that sent me even further down to the bottom, but coming to exams in June I hit a wave of determination to change, I was sick of living like how I was and wanted to finally go for my goals and dreams of being a fighter pilot, I had fist wanted to be a fighter pilot when I went on holiday to tattershall and was in a campsite based across the canal from RAF Coningsby, I watched the typhoons fly and it was that moment onwards I wanted to be in the Air Force. I always wanted to be in the military but what role I didn’t quite know, but I wasn’t confident in myself and I dismissed the idea of being a pilot, I read the process and said to myself “ha yeah I could never” but here I am waking up before 5am to go to the gym, go to college where I am doing a hard and busy course in which I’m working at distinction level which is an A. Where I passed my GCSEs barely. It was not until a few months ago I realised I wasn’t dumb. I am pretty clever. It was just my mindset that was completely off. Now I’m working so hard doing, running, gym, duke of Edinburgh silver, badminton at county level, my own flying research and aptitude test practices, air cadets, I also help coach badminton with my dad, And am working a job. I am so busy and just 8 months ago I thought my life wouldn’t ever improve, I felt like a failed son. But now I make them proud. My mum has beat cancer and we are short on money I have only been able to afford a couple flying lessons. And I would love to get a set up so I can learn from dcs and this community on this channel. I wish all of you the very best and also a quick thank you for talking about the current pausing on the recruitment of white men. As a white male, I think I’m going to go for the navy but I’m 16 and am hoping by the time I join the Air Force or navy things would have improved at the airforce. Either way I will not let the discrimination get in my way I will still continue to push myself to my limit and be the best version of myself I can be. So if anyone can give me a rough idea on the price of a set up that would be much appreciated 🙏🏼

[@FastJetPerformance]

Less than £1000 easily, you can pick up second hand flight controllers to reduce the price and a cheaper computer too. The community is a good one but, either way, well done on transforming a loss into a win - very few people can do this and the key, as you have recognised, is an early start to the day - that's how you win it! Apply to both the RN and the RAF, they will love your story but you need to keep putting the work in, they need to see that too - good luck to you.

[@alistairbradford410]

@@FastJetPerformance thank you I will do some searching . I think I might join the raf (or navy) for a while before I apply to be a pilot so they can see my work ethic and my skills and personality, and then from there they may see me better than if I just showed up straight away for the pilot role. Do you think I should do that or just go straight in for pilot? I also just broke up with my gf mutually yesterday (she still wants to be best friends). She said it’s because “I’ve changed, and I’m more busy and focused on my goals which is admirable but the relationship has changed because of this and it’s not as enjoyable as it was. We’d be better off how we were as friends”.. well at least I know now that I’m working as hard as I should be. Everyone thinks I’m crazy 😭 it’s cost me friends, my relationship, ALL of my time and a lot of money. There is no going back now.

[@FastJetPerformance]

@@alistairbradford410 Good man, keep it up - also, I'd advise applying for pilot on entry as very few options exist to change branches when you are already in the military.

[@alistairbradford410]

@@FastJetPerformance okay I will go straight for it then. I just hope this hard work pays off 🙏🏻 hopefully I will get a set up soon and I can be a part of this wonderful community 🙌🏼

[@AdmV0rl0n]

Focus on trimmings with the turkey. :) Merry Xmas, have a good one, and good luck with the Jan school batch!

[@FastJetPerformance]

Thank you and much appreciated as always - I wish you all the best over the festive season and a great New Year for you.

[@Arstine]

I've been a pilot and instructor for over 20 years (DCS pilot for 5 years) and I'm going to give you something to maybe change the way you look at trimming. You trim for speed. Throttle for altitude. Once you get trimmed for a speed you can climb or descend at that speed with just the throttle. That's a much simpler way to look at it than trying to look at attitude and coming at it kinda backwards like you were explaining it.

[@ArchOfficial]

I don't think this will work in most FBW jets that use trim as a logic for how much Zg they should be pulling.

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

This is totally bogus advice, and if you try to do it, you will fail 100% of the time. I can "trim for speed" while climbing at a 10 degree angle, but it will NOT trim the aircraft for 300 kts. Why? Because my aircraft has an engine, and the instant I change thrust, it will screw the trim condition. The ACTUAL correct way to trim is this: 1) Set thrust (you either want to climb, descend, or hold level flight) 2) Get the pitch where you need it using the stick, and change speed by over/under pitching (e.g. acceleration in climb to a higher climb speed requires initial under-pitching) 3) Only once you got the aircraft balanced with stick input, can you think about trimming so it stays where you put it. Level flight is a special case. We need the nose to remain in a constant attitude while thrust is used to set speed. Again, set pitch for altitude, then balance thrust with pitch to maintain level flight. Only once pitch and thrust are set and things are constant, can you think about trimming. With experience (and this is something that you develop very quickly) is trimming while pitching. You will know which way the trim needs to run for a given situation, so you can start running the trim before you get to your final attitude/speed. Imagine this: if I set max power and climb, and "trim for speed", the instant I push the nose and pull off power to hold that speed in level flight, it will always want to pitch. Which way it wants to pitch depends upon the thrust line of the aircraft, but no aircraft has a perfectly zero thrust line, thus, it will require re-trimming, despite the speed remaining the same! This is even more apparent in propellor aircraft where you get propwash over the tail, or where the engines are a long way from the centerline (e.g. underslung engines).

[@Arstine]

@@ArchOfficial It works perfectly in analog DCS jets like the F5 as well as in the real world in analog planes.

[@Arstine]

@@paradoxicalcat7173 Before you go all crazy with a reply like this, consider the context of this video and what we're talking about. We are in an analog plane. No fly by wire or computer "assistance". So, my advice is 100% accurate. Now, if we were in a computer assisted plane like the F18, this would not work because the computer would do it's thing. Get out in the real world. Go to your local airport and do an introduction flight in a real plane. You'll see that this is how real world planes and pilots work.

[@ArchOfficial]

@@Arstine What do you do if the plane's thrust line and center of pressure don't allow you to control purely altitude (= pitch) with the throttle? It's why I think of trimming as just setting the rate of pitch which you then choose to be correct for the given attitude to be maintained. Some planes that use Zg as the logic still behave in this way, where pitching down will require unloading and pitching up will require loading in order to keep the attitude constant for any given V.