Diplomacy - Basics of French Opening Strategy

[@ncpolley]

So, I think this 10 year old video was really interesting. Started recently with some friends. Never played before. But I am Italy, and my ally is France. We have made very strong early negotiations to aim for a cooperative victory. A lot of these scenarios we figured out in our hours long discussion (our game is online and meant to be finished over the course of months).

[@alecdegraaf442]

PLEASE DO ADVANCED OPENING/MID/END GAME STRATEGY FOR ALL NATIONS!!!!!

[@Triumvir412]

+Alec Degraaf - I would love to! Just working on finding the time.

[@Triumvir412]

@Fallrider - I appreciate the feedback, and don't feel bad about your question. It's a good one. Personally, I don't think those decisions (who to stab, etc) can really be taken up in 1901. In 1901, you're still trying to establish yourself as a power and, perhaps more importantly, you're still feeling out your opponents. The strategy suggested allows you to get a feel for who you can and can't work with. Offense and stabs have to be taken on a case-by-case basis, I think.

[@Triumvir412]

@xxPEvexx Well, if you ordered two armies to move to Burgundy (BUR) you wouldn't over-power Germany, you'd essentially bounce yourself out. Some people order that as insurance, in case Germany lies and doesn't order a unit into BUR. However, if you use the 2nd army to SUPPORT the move of the first, you will overpower Germany and will take BUR (and infuriate the German). Does that answer your question?

[@053336ing]

Good to see you're back, keep the vids coming!

[@elizasharp10]

What strategy would you recommend if a German unit is in Burgundy? Also, are there any other countries you would recommend an alliance with?

[@lukasl1865]

Like your stuff, hope you wil retun someday... understand that you are busy though

[@Triumvir412]

Appreciate it! Glad you enjoy the vids. Thanks for watching.

[@martijnbouman8874]

In my opinion, it's always better to bounce with Germany with the army in Marseilles. You then can use your army in Paris to move into Picardy, which is good because that borders Belgium. This gives you the opportunity to either try to take Belgium or give England/Germany support into it.

[@Triumvir412]

You make some good points but your plan can also cause problems. If you order MAR to BUR to bounce with Germany and the German does not hold up his end of the bargain, then you may be stuck only taking one of the Iberian centers (POR and SPA) in the first year. Also, there is something to be said for not being a part of the BEL discussion in the first year. A French player who threatens BEL (as well as having units in position to take POR and SPA) is a prime target. Anyone who could double in size in 1901 is a big threat. Also, having a unit in PIC may force you to pick a side in the England-Germany fight before you really want to. I have, in the past, actually ordered BOTH Paris AND Marseilles into BUR in the Spring (they stand each other out, even if Germany doesn't hold up his end of the deal). That lets me move MAR to SPA in the Fall (assume I take POR with my fleet) and then move PAR to PIC or BUR in the Fall so that I can have a say in what happens to BEL in 1902. All that said, one of the best things bout Diplomacy is that anything can happen. A strategy that works great in one game could blow up in your face the next. Thanks for your comment, and thanks for watching.

[@xxPEvexx]

@Triumvir412 Yes. That does, thanks. I have played the game now and it is quite something.

[@theFPLkiwi]

Didn't cover the apparently most popular opening: (Bre)-MAO, (Mar) s (Par)-Bur (source: diplom.org/Online/Openings/interactive.html?)

[@Triumvir412]

+Ralph Jordan - What do you know! You're right! Good catch and thanks for posting it. The reason I didn't think to include that move is because I tend to be a bit more passive in the opening turn or two, and a supported move in S-1901 seems very anti-German to me. But clearly I am in the minority holding that opinion. Sorry it took me so long to respond, and thanks again for the comment!

[@samppu-scmotionpicture1274]

Yes, this is a fancy and popular move indeed. Generally it is often a good idea to hold the initiative to yourself in this game, because you can do a lot of damage to your opponents, if you can catch them off balance. Many average or poor players in the games that I have played have lost their crucial opportunity to win by favoring some general non-aggression philosophy. Of course, I do not mean that one should blindly try to attack someone on the very first turn, but what I mean is that one should try to build situations where surprise attacks can be done in devastating ways, and yes, this is possible for every country already during the first year of the game. For example, moving the French fleet from MAO to Irish Sea on the fall of 1901 before even going to Portugal can be extremely devastating to England and beneficial to France if you can make a deal with Russia and Germany that they prevent England from getting Belgium and Norway. Some other cool examples: England and the pincer move against Germany: Nth -> Den and Russia moves Gulf -> Bal after pissing off Germany who goes into the trap by moving Den -> Swe... Austria-Hungary and taking of Venice: Tri -> Adr Vie -> Tri This can conquer Italy in just a few years with certain assumptions. Italy and humiliation of France: First Italy agrees with France to bounce in Piedmont. Then Italy moves Rom -> Tus and holds Venice still while the France moves to the trap by attacking to Piedmont without the bounce. Because in the fall term, Italy can then push the army in Piedmont back to Marseilles preventing thus France from building fleets in the Mediterranean, while Italy has gained already two of them by conquering Tunis. Of course, this assumes that Austria is busy elsewhere during the first year, but usually it is.

[@MedicEne]

Is there any where I can have quick games against AI so I can learn the game?

[@Triumvir412]

I don't know of anyplace, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[@Riedl1000]

I’m quite new to the game, we’ve played it for a couple of times now but there are still some rule issues someone here could help me address? First, in a standoff, do you have to move back to where you came? In this case could you not bounce into Belgium for example. I think standoff’s are a bit hard. What if a third army moves into the area your army came from, is the army then lost? Second, can two armies support one another, say A Bud and A Wie? Do they both defend with a two then? Thanks!

[@Triumvir412]

Good questions. (1) Yes, units that are involved in a stand-off just don't move; that is, they remain in the territory that they came from, as you said. I could not bounce into Belgium. My two units standing off in Burgundy would remain in their original locations (Paris and Marseilles). If a third army is involved, attempting to move into one of the original locations (let's say Paris, in this instance), unless that third army had support from somewhere, it would ALSO remain in its original location. The logic works this way: Paris and Marseilles both have a strength of 1, so neither can overcome the other and move into Burgundy. The army from Paris will therefore still "be there" when the third army arrives. If this third army also has a strength of 1 (that is, if it is unsupported) it will be unable to overcome the unit in Paris and will therefore have to remain where they began. (2) Two armies who are not ordered to move CAN support each other as long as they are adjacent to one another. In this case, they'd both have a defensive strength of 2, as you said. One would either have to attack with three, or would have to cut support and attack with two. Hope this helps. Good questions. Let me know if you have more. And thanks for watching.

[@philipboardman1357]

Wouldn't you want move _par - bur_ first turn without a bounce, thereby giving you a chance to move _bur - bel_ on turn two? (I haven't played a game yet)

[@Triumvir412]

+Philip Boardman If all you had to consider was your own advancement, then PAR-BUR would be a great choice. However, you have to consider how your moves will be read by the other players, and moving PAR - BUR creates a threat against a German home center (MUN). It has been my experience that that is a dangerous move in the first turn. You can accomplish the bounce in BUR while still giving yourself the chance to take BEL in turn two. Just bounce from MAR (MAR - BUR) and order PAR to PIC. Again, you have to consider how this could be read by your neighbors. A French player who is in position to take three centers (BEL, SPA, and POR) in the first year is a huge threat.

[@xxPEvexx]

If i move an army in from one side and share burgundy with germany and then i move an army in from the other side after we made the agreement then i am just overpowering him and bouncing him out am i not? granted i would be stabbing germany in the back. I am just curious if this strategy is possible.

[@conorswan1974]

Basics of opening strategy for Russia please

[@Triumvir412]

I haven't had much time to play or to make videos for the last few years, but if I find the time to get back into it, the plan is to finish the "Basics of ... Opening Strategy" series. I could probably be convinced to do Russia next. Now to find the time...

[@ferrorey8]

Out of curiosity, what program do you use to illustrate this? Is there any way to obtain it?

[@Triumvir412]

It's a java-based program called jDip. It's open source (last time I checked, at least) which means it can be downloaded and used for free. If you do a Google search for it, it should come up.

[@ferrorey8]

Excellent, thank you! Hope that Phd is going well, and I look forward to any time you have to play Diplomacy. (Maybe a sub game!)

[@Triumvir412]

It is going well, thanks. I'm official a PhD Candidate as of this May. Only thing left to do is write my dissertation.

[@ferrorey8]

Awesome! And then slightly less awesome... I've heard those are a bit of a bugger. May I ask what your PhD is for?

[@Triumvir412]

It will be a PhD in New Testament and Early Christianity.

[@Fallrider]

This is really good dude. But where's the offensive side? Who would be the most logical person to stab given the circumstances etc.? Don't take this the wrong way man, I like it.

[@Dedonarivl96]

I love it! +1 sub

[@Triumvir412]

Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching and for the sub!

[@Jimmytheexplorer]

Me watching this bc im trown on france in history class (10 extra creddit points if you win)