Is It SMART to Buy a Factory Second? | Gibson SECOND SEC 2 BGN Promotional Not For Resale, MOD, DEMO

[@Trog]

"2" = Factory Second (60s, early 70s era) SECOND = Factory Second (mid-70s through 80s era) SEC = Factory Second (typically mid-late 80s era) BGN = Bargain, usually a more serious cosmetic default (primarily 70s era) PROMOTIONAL - Not For Resale = Factory second with a marketing twist after the "seconds" program was done away with in late 80s. Typically sold to artists at a discount or for giveaways DEMO = Factory 2nd from Gibson Demo Shop (2019+) D E M O (Large font) = Gibson EU demo unit from the flagship store or early Demo Shop MOD = Factory 2nd that was modified in some way (new finish, new parts etc.) If you're curious about EPIPHONES stamped USED or with new serials in orange boxes applied - this video might be of interest! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKbYqXuvmM1ojqssi=VUCJzz8v7yRY3P9C&t=170

[@qua7771]

Thanks. I have a black Epiphone Standard that I got in '08 stamped "2ND". I never found anything wrong with it, or anything unusual. I think I paid ~$125 for it back then.

[@captmark09]

Former Gibson employee here; From my experience some over-produced/low selling models were stamped 2nd also as a way to circumvent #1 pricing and shove them out the door to key dealers at a price break. Others were stamped this way for employee discount purchase. All this went away when HJ took over. We used to call them "playable scrappers" until he fired someone for using the term in front of him...

[@stealingtomorrowband]

Wow, fires someone over a comment. How long did you work at Gibson? And what did you do?

[@ChrisShortyAllen]

As if.

[@pharmerdavid1432]

I don't know who HJ is (will have to research), but that makes sense to me, and considering the 'quality' of Gibson "firsts" I'll take my chances with seconds!

[@paulketchupwitheverything767]

@@pharmerdavid1432 Henry Juszkiewicz - Gibson CEO, 1986 to 2018, or thereabouts.

[@captmark09]

@@stealingtomorrowband 11 years

[@danielmeeker1036]

You are close to the truth on 2nds and bargins. I have lived and grew up in kazoo all my life. Employed at Gibson were allowed to purchase a instrument at factory price 1 per year as long as you were employed at least 24 months. All employee purchased guitars were marked as 2nd and bgn because the guitar could not be sold at local retail stores at full price. I have a bargain les paul 78 black beauty that I bought new from a family friend that worked at Gibson for years. Mrs jimbronie. She asked me what led paul I wanted. I told her a black custom 2 pickup. 1 week later she brought it to me. It cost me 400 dollars. They took it off the shipping line and marked it bgn. If you notice on some 2nds and bgn it is stamped after the finish. On some it is stamped before the finish. Some guitars went through the production earmarked for a employee that wanted one. They were marked as bgn or 2nds so they could not be sold for retail. Your bun or seconds in the seventies were probably better than any others. There were no gibson seconds sold retail anywhere. Only came from factory employees. I grew up around gibson kalamazoo employees. Many of my friends had mom's or dads that worked there. Used to go to the cafe inside to eat sometimes. I could tell you much trog. I still have my 78 black beauty and it is a beast. Has a tone that melts your ears.

[@storytimewithunclekumaran5004]

My 79 Les Paul Standard is only marked second so it was probably a employees purchase..I bought it in 1981 and still have it too this day. It has been dragged around and played and has plenty of battle marks.. One of my finest purchases.

[@RFL_guitars]

Your comment "All employee purchased guitars were marked as 2nd and bgn" may or may not have been the case in K-zoo, but it was definitely not the case in Nashville. I have several guitars that I purchased while working there and none were stamped.

[@DoctorEnigma01]

Who give’s a $hit if it has second, I buy them to play them

[@tonyhill1141]

Totally! I have owned a bunch of these and got them for sometimes hundreds less and they played like brand new. So who cares? “Investing” in guitars is a rich persons game. Most of us just want to play them.

[@marvreed4765]

I concur 100%. So what if it has a flaw or a ding. I’m probably gonna bang it up myself. So whay not save a few bucks

[@leviathan_is_me]

Thank you. Who cares if it messes with the value? Well, as long as it is cheaper to BUY, lol.

[@alpeterson]

You my friend are a player, I’m convinced about 75% of this channel is fanboys who barely play but collect and fiercely defend any Gibson criticism.

[@michaelsakells169]

Agree. Plus I think they play better when they are broken in.

[@disco4535]

I love getting blem models. Especially when theyre great playing/feeling guitars. You dont have to worry about getting dings or play wear, and you can gig with them without needing to take your minty models.

[@randrothify]

I thought that’s what $10k Murphy Lab is for. These should all be $20k according to Gibson😂

[@disco4535]

@@randrothify Id feel much better about my blem getting stolen than my murphy lab lol

[@jimjim7008]

Tell me about it... Just bought a '23 black beauty for $5200 and still not a single dent yet. I've been playing this beauty a year now but only at home. They go straight back to the case after playing. I remember changing the strap buttons from originals to Schaller and was literally sweating after carefully screwing those Schaller pins through the wood for the fear of cracking. Still waiting for that first ding 😢

[@RobertNolan]

I have a vintage 2nd ES345, my first Gibson ever, and it is such a treasure in my collection.

[@RobertNolan]

@@cataclysmicconverter when it came in it apparently needed it's neck reset and they needed to send it out, so I told them to call me as soon as it showed back up. Came back perfect the neck set was an incredibly clean job done by a NYC luthier, bought it for 2k with that neck reset.

[@johnnyswitchblade13]

I got a black '80 LPC stamped "SECOND" for $350 and never did spot the flaw. Good luck finding it now! Still my favorite guitar of many.

[@johnnyswitchblade13]

I got it around 1983, btw, when I was 17, right off the wall of the original Chicago Guitar Center on Milwaukee Ave. Serial # indicates Nashville, not Kalamazoo...

[@pass_the_flask]

In the early 2010's you used to be able to find a lot of factory 2nd Korean Schecters, often for less than $300, they were all so good too - usually it was just cosmetic problems. I still own one with a small finish rub through on the back of the neck

[@stringspicksandfiddlestick6388]

My 73 SG has a 2 on the headstock. Angus Young said in an interview that his first SG had the 2 on it and he said he liked that. It fit him.

[@steveparish9210]

The little guy has a sense of humor, he said he liked it because it was defective like him 😊

[@Les537]

I got a 2019 SG 61 sold as a second, but it was not stamped. The flaw is a small halo in the finish around the back strap button. Excellent guitar.

[@SotR59]

I bought a factory 2nd Korina Explorer. It took me a while to figure out why it was. All I could find was a minuscule gouge on the away side of the fingerboard at the 22nd fret. I saw it several times when looking for the "damage" and thought it was just a black mark in the wood grain. Finally examined it super close and realized I could catch it with my fingernail so decided that had to be the blemish.

[@Aspkkr]

I have no problem getting guitars from the demo shop. They have all been great so far and hundreds of dollars off msrp.

[@myoptik3x103]

I knew someone who bought a black Les Paul that was a second. This was in the late 70’s and it was indeed stamped SECOND on the back of the headstock. Unfortunately I really don’t remember what the flaws were, but it played and sounded great.

[@ericbgordon1575]

A friend of mine has a model like this, although I don't know if this LP was a factory second. It certainly is a lot heavier than this one. It belonged to a friend of his brother's, and the brother has said whenever I've played it how thankful he is that somebody has played it.

[@PolishHammer]

I have been playing my 2nd (slight lacquer sink) for almost 30 years, it was the best feeling Les Paul I ever "demo'd" and the most beat up. Now modded to my needs (planet waves tuners, graphtech saddles and nut, early unpotted burstbuckers, blacked out Gibson plastics, Dunlop straplocks, chrome truss rod cover and switch tip), not much paint left on the neck, and the second set of frets are about done, I would never sell it so they can't have it. It's mine.

[@lespaul2550]

I have a February 1979 25/50 Anniversary Issue Les Paul and it had a flaw in the finish around the lower bridge tailpiece screw. I got it used in 82 and still have it today. Around 83 or 84 I had a Kahler whammy and locking nut installed so that flaw was routed out to make room for the whammy anyway. My inspiration for installing the whammy was Brad Gillis playing a Les Paul with whammy for the live videos with Ozzy on the Speak of the Devil tour. Stock, it had the coil split switch but I added polarity switches behind that for both pickups. Poor man's strat and it never sounded like one. I did replace the pickups to gold EMG 81/85's in the early 2000's and removed the coil split and polarity switches. I still love that guitar. It's so pretty with the silver and gold hardware. I played the crap out of it for about 30 years until I finally got some more guitars to share the punishment. I had her refretted twice so far.

[@eightbars1]

I have a Gibson Heritage Custom Deluxe guitar that plays and sounds better than any other acoustic I've ever played before. It has HUGE defects. The handlebar moustache bridge has a big crack running through it and the binding has several goofs that are obvious. I was able to set it up to my liking, and it has faster action than any electric out there. Extremely fast action, light as a feather. It has just the "2" stamped on the back of the neck

[@joegearing1745]

I have the same model and year (Hetfield's Uncle Milty is a 73 Custom, too) but man I'm absolutely crazy about it. Refretted with massive frets. The smaller neck carve plus t-top pickups, plus nice weight, plus bone nut - it plays in tune everywhere and sings like crazy. It's perfect in every way. If you can, get one.

[@tonyhills2112]

Almost seems like sometimes the stamp disfigures the guitar more than the original blemish.

[@storytimewithunclekumaran5004]

I have a factory second 1979 Gibson Les Paul Standard natural finish, I bought it in 1981.. With crazy plastic case with the plastic latches.

[@user-wl7rb5ri5m]

I saw a second Les Paul at D’Bella music in Bergenfield, NJ. The flaw was some minuscule space around some of the inlays. I was eager to buy it but there wasn’t enough of a savings to make it worth while. By the way, years later a guy named Al Di Meola began teaching guitar there.

[@thehark6247]

i would definitely gig with that, if i had a shred of talent, and could play in a band, and do a show.

[@miketuttle9319]

Bought a Second stamped LPC in 78, think it was used. Bought it for about 350.00, carried it out of the store in a brown paper bag. Wish I still had it, it played great. Had no idea why it was a second.

[@johnhutton9105]

I got my hands on a 76 Les Paul Custom. She plays beautifully, sounds great, looks cool, tons of mojo, really weird neck angle. Two second stamps. Plays great but has a really high tailpiece and bridge. Would an incorrect neck angle go out as a 2nd?

[@instaman34]

Yeah a 78' Silverburst came up as a factory 2nd and the only reason i passed on it was because of some strange extra holes drilled near the tone/volume knobs.. could have been the factory, or a careless owner. Price was fair though.

[@samiam5557]

Sounds raspy and thin on the bridge p-up, neck p-up sounds great.

[@heavybrett-al4082]

With the current cost of a Les Paul, or just any brand at the moment....I'd be happy with a 2nds blemish guitar, as long as it holds tune and feels great.

[@fezz562bo7]

My ‘78 is Kalamazoo made second. Bought it at Norman’s rare guitars. It’s an amazing guitar, but an absolute boat anchor.

[@RandyFrancis-s6y]

I'd love that guitar..........

[@wesleed1120]

Slash's first main actual Gibson is a 2nd

[@randrothify]

Yes, it is called a Fibson Derrig😅.

[@lakesidehog9525]

@@randrothifynope… 🤔🤔… Jessica

[@johnnyxmusic]

And the one after that? I don’t know… Third base!

[@scottbogfoot]

The weird part is that the 2 is on top of the BGN. if it was the other way around id say it was a 2nd the got damaged again and was remarked as a bargain. But i doubt it was graded as bgn then upgraded it to 2nd at a later time.

[@facelessnomore]

I guess around 2008 I purchased an Epi J160 John Lennon model at a discount because it was a factory second and marked USED on the rear of the headstock . All that was wrong was a dry joint on the jack socket. At the time this model was quite rare and this was the only one I could find to buy (it came new from a dealer) still use it.

[@garyrouleau4676]

Angus Young would buy 2nds from a guitar shop in NY. I have an Epiphone 2nd which is stamped the only thing wrong with it was way over sprayed! Still sounds good!

[@georgeoh-well8116]

You can rest assured that all current guitars stamped DEMO have 'AUTHENTIC' defects 🙂

[@donbarile8916]

I bought a '77 custom, black with a maple fingerboard marked "SECOND" in 1981. Never could figure out why it was marked. Still have it. Paid $400. bucks at the time. I'm takin it to the grave. Does the second mark matter? Nah man, not for $400. bucks it doesn't.

[@christophkilp]

Nowadays Gibson doesn‘t have any factory seconds anymore. Every guitar with a blemish failing QC goes to Murphy Labs and gets beat up. People pay extra for that

[@Kahuna54]

This is a sweet looking LP!

[@danmc_2783]

If a guitar was stamped as a 2nd for a minor cosmetic blemish 50 years ago, unless it was for something like that misaligned binding, there's no way you'd ever know and even with that minor issue on this guitar, I don't think now that you can really be sure that that WAS actually the cause of it being made a 2nd. After 50 years I'd be more worried if a guitar didn't show some signs of wear. This one has clearly been taken care of and is likely in better condition than many 1st quality guitars of the same age. Still I kinda want to commit sacrilege and stick an old Super distortion and maybe a toggle switch or two in this one to make it "mine" but I am crazy when it comes to that stuff lol

[@renodavid]

I have one of these black Customs, also from ‘74. Oddly, the stamped serial number is barely visible. Really, it’s not even legible anymore. Does anyone know what would cause that? Could it have left the factory like that? Could it have been refinished? I certainly thought it was new when I bought it around that time period.

[@ricksunderland1421]

All I know is that the best guitar I ever had, and most regret selling, was a Les Paul Custom with a “2” stamped on it.

[@Saxby8six]

My favorite guitar is a b stock Tele. it just has a ding by the input jack

[@reno145]

I bought a used Epiphone Lucille 2nd many years ago. It was a second because some of the block inlays are not parallel to the frets. I still dig it out every now and then. The original pickups were hot garbage (it is a '96) so I replaced them with the BB King Signature set. They were better, but sound so much better in my '91 Studio Lite. The Epi now has GFS Filtertrons and I like the sounds I get. It is now known as Gretchen.

[@SBanas]

As someone who has two guitars stamped DEMO, all I want to say is: great players, amazing value, and sometimes you can get a prototype in the price of a demo model. I bet the factory seconds are probably similar to them.

[@ChewieBabyTW]

If it SOUNDS good, that works for me. All about de bass no treble.......Great show. B e a utiful guitar once again. I love drooling over these that I will never afford. I have a few Strats though and a couple of the cheaper models of Less Paul Epiphone, etc but they sound AMAZING with my orange 20 amp! This show is important because I learn stuff about guitars and music. That is special.

[@jeremynebraska]

I still love that Blueberry Special!! Looks so good!!

[@engleharddinglefester4285]

I would think 2nds would fetch more because there's fewer of them.

[@TM-ev2tc]

How much discounted are they generally from the factory. I mean how much cheaper are they really.

[@botherangel]

Even modshop and demo shop are from 2nd factory and got refurbished.

[@markjamesmeli2520]

It's funny, after working in retail, and at a music store in retail, the concept of "seconds" never entered my mind. At least not in the case of a real live "Gibson." Thanks for this.

[@erickaufmancustomguitars1351]

I have a personal story of a factory second bass from this era from a authorized dealer. It was due to a...... broken trussrod. Fact ! After showing said dealer was asked to leave store after buying at least 3 new guitars and 2 used. No respect. the store has been closed for many years now. Respect.

[@alvaroquijano579]

so how do i buy a factory second?

[@brianfurry9542]

Yeay, I made the top 5

[@clarkbabin9799]

If it speaks to me i dont care if it is a second. I've always thought witch hat knobs more look like that quaker hat that Richie Blackmore used to wear. The latest Studio that I bought courtesy of having seen it on this show the vintage dirty cherry has double line Clousens on it. Dont know how much of everything on it is original equipment but everything hardware is gold and looks somewhat new or at least excellent condition. Does anyone know when Gibson starts wotking on or building the coming year models?

[@georgeprice4212]

From what I’ve read, Pete Townshend used to buy Factory seconds from Gibson exclusively for smashing…only he’d play them during the last song and destroyed at the end.

[@316diag]

my Epiphone has "USED" stamped into the headstock and the last 3 digits of the serial number "X"ed out. I don't see any factory flaws with it, so i wonder why it's marked that way... anyone know? seems like an odd thing to do. i guess it would prevent a warranty claim, but also make it less desirable to many customers.

[@Trog]

Your guitar was "refurbished" kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKbYqXuvmM1ojqs&pp=ygUSdHJvZ2x5IHJlZnVyYmlzaGVk

[@316diag]

@@Trog thanks for the info.

[@joeblow-tp6gz]

My buddies Artisan second was the best guitar I ever touched!

[@mertmunson1417]

Ask Slash how it works out… just fine!!!

[@ethanhitchcock5431]

I would buy one provided it played well & sounds good , even though Im a HUGE mega celebrity rock STAR Im not too proud to play a runt ...Thanky Trogly !

[@eric_in_florida]

Boy that cleaned up nice.

[@Nothing-gv8mv]

I would take a second in a second.

[@TheAtariCreep]

At Parker guitars in the late 90's we had first choice from the 2nds for tye employee guitar program. Sadly, my rootbeer finished Fly was never mine due to the end of the program. Side note about that, most employees were mad about that so they would pick a guitar they liked from tue general production and hid them in tue dumpster for a late night pickup. I didnt have tue balls to do it. My luck i would have been the 1 dude they caught and made an example of. Haha

[@AnimalJohn85]

Factory second sounds much more fun to me

[@aaronlovell6026]

In the 70s and 80s it was called factory second. Now they are called demo shop. They are basically players grade guitars. It's exactly what your looking for. I'm not a collector, I'm a player.

[@christianboddum8783]

Great sounding fiddle!

[@gladysman24133]

I was in Memphis in 2006 and took a tour of the Gibson factory and they said all factory seconds were required to be thrown in the dumpster out back and destroyed? They said they would never be sold?

[@Trog]

Yes, that was correct for 1986* through the opening of the Demo shop under 2019 new-ownership and the introduction of the Demo shop

[@renodavid]

Wow. 😢

[@markcheetah4960]

​@@TrogMan, you know your stuff!!

[@AppaBoy]

the second mark is them writing down their favorite fret

[@fasteddy3336]

I have a Epiphone that is marked as a 2nd.

[@vincentrandles8105]

I actually did learn something. Thanks man!

[@halfchop]

I have often wondered so I guess I'll ask, what amp are you usually playing out of?

[@Trog]

The past two years has been a Marshall Bluesbreaker reissue. Was a Fender Deluxe Reverb for the two years prior to that. There was about a 1.5 years of a Mesa Boogie Mark 5:25 before that. All nice amps, though about time for me to switch it up again I think

[@halfchop]

@@Trog Thanks for the reply!

[@jimjim7008]

Slash had a factory second. I think Tom Keifer from Cinderella had one too from an interview I heard long time ago which he heavily recorded long cold winter with and also can be seen in nobody's fool music video. Go figure

[@alanohagan6999]

That’s an awesome looking LP

[@jimbeehag2060]

Who cares what it says on back headstock gimme a second any day. I’ll play it, thrash it and own it.

[@RageKilla12]

damn what a nice 73 custom literally my dream guitar

[@felipevalli]

Great video!

[@cromBumny]

Heritage H150 review please!

[@guitarjunkie7124]

another great video!

[@TheModmc]

GIBSON HAS QC !?!?!?!?!?

[@roberttdubel]

No dot on the I

[@123pap]

I'd take it

[@bikeman123]

And when you want to sell it, everyone will say its a fake.

[@Bringyourownhammer]

Soon people will pay just because it’s stamped “second” 😅

[@larryburwell8550]

id rather have a factory second at a good price, than a mod shop repaint at a premium price because to be refinished guitars are seconds or less. seconds are original guitars. mod shops are not but yet gibson is real proud of mod shop repaints

[@MarkEdward-bl6cr]

It's a Norlin 👏🤘

[@stealingtomorrowband]

I would rock a 1st or 2nd and even a 3rd... Poor man can't be too picky ..

[@jameshughes6049]

Howdy all!!

[@adhaskym.a9536]

3 piece maple?

[@Trog]

3 piece maple top, 3 piece mahogany neck in early 70s. 75/76 is the transition into maple necks

[@styrenebuilds6851]

Well there is way more 2nds out there than there were employees

[@roachclips7354]

Hey bro.. I have been watching your show for a while am a musician writing and playing own stuff.. I haven't made it anywhere. I really need a guitar. I love the les Paul look . But I had a Torino by Greg Bennett it was green I loved that guitar .. it got stolen. Anyways man if you could maybe send me some of your old parts so I can build me a nice guitar man it would be awesome.. if not I understand

[@ricky-snickle1753]

My factory second '74 20th anniversary les paul custom is in better condition than ones that were sold in perfect condition so I dont mind!

[@Les537]

Same with my SG second. Better build then my other SG and my LP special.

[@caucasianbulldog6057]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a quality Gibson just because it has a few dings on it. If you were to buy it new it wouldn't take long for you to ding it anyway.

[@SuperGolgotha]

"A factory second typically just meant it had a cosmetic blemish." "Henry J and his investors did away with the factory 2nd program." All the guitars by the end of the Henry J era seemed as if they were factory seconds. QC was non existent.

[@barry3045]

Play it first 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@chrisghiardi117]

Factory second is a meaningless concept on a used Gibson guitar from those years up until HJ ended the program. The official line from Gibson reps like Phil M was the guitars marked "2" or "second" had spme sort of minor cosmetic flaw. Often that mark was the only flaw to be found. Seems Gibson used the program to move slow moving stock and generate writeoffs and a minor discount for dealers. This was back in the days of the A or rarer B discount off MSRP. The BGN mark was a different thing and those generally had real problems and while some claim they never were sold retail I know from experience some did get to stores. But factory second has no real significance for Gibson guitars pre HJ, once the guitar is no longer new, unsold. Used guitars have use..

[@MarmiteTheDog]

Looking at the quality of the guitars that Gibson sell as 'firsts' I'm surprised there's much of a difference between firsts & seconds.

[@garychown4885]

You're lucky if you get a new guitar from Gibson that doesn't have some imperfections, Gibson finish quality is rubbish. You pay all the money for the name on the headstock.

[@brettbunke9096]

All Gibsons are seconds quality wise lol

[@myopicautisticmetal9035]

Gibon does seconds? I thought all of their stock was qualifier as a factory second and they just screw people. Ah, so I was right, they don't do seconds anymore. They just sell them as firsts and screw you over.

[@ChrisShortyAllen]

You need to stop talking to yourself. They don't do seconds (anymore). If you consider a consumer product is imperfect. Don't buy. Return for an exchange. Duh.

[@markgalicic7218]

5,999😂

[@hectormutton2542]

✌️

[@RoboSteave]

Hmm, I've heard of sloppy seconds. Is this what they're talking about?