Trojan Language - What was the Linguistic Identity of Troy?

When the city of Troy was burned down at the end of the Bronze Age, so were many key information on who the Trojans really were. In this episode, we go through the theories on the Trojan language and attempt to uncover the linguistic identity of the Trojans.
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[@HistorywithCy]

All really interesting hypotheses. I often thought of Troy as a very cosmopolitan city, perhaps with a Luwian-speaking majority but with a ruling family of Mycenaean Greek descent. Therefore my guess would be that it's a combination of Mycenaean Greek and Luwian, but I'm certainly not an expert on this subject. Great video, the language trees were very helpful!

[@lamastu2156]

Luwians are one of the pre-Greek tribe who with years became Greeks. The other tribes was Minoans, Pelasgians and the majority the very first Indo-European tribes who the who Hellenic identity was built by their culture. Something similar to ancient Italian tribes before Romans

[@spartanwarrior1]

the progenitor of the royal trojan house was Dardanos, a refugee from the peloponnese, to be precise from Arcadia. Hence, the "Greek" connection to the Troad region. There were Greek settlements along the Anatolian coastline.

[@gregorynixon2945]

I said the same thing, above, and got no likes. Is it because I'm Canadian?

[@lamastu2156]

@@gregorynixon2945 Come on, stop complaining. I gave you a like right now only because you are Canadian. We love Canada ❤️🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🍁🍁❤️🇨🇦🇨🇦 We only hate woke culture

[@gregorynixon2945]

@@lamastu2156 🤩🤩🤩

[@lonwof2105]

This is easily one of the top 5 classical BC history channels. We gotta get this dude some subs and slay ignorance!

[@josephthibeault9919]

Being a trading city. Multiple languages would be needed.

[@nezperce2767]

Who were the traders? Should be ship owners well off in arms

[@bodnica]

​@@nezperce2767 Phoenicians were leaders in trade

[@nezperce2767]

@@bodnica so? Traders normally through transactions make money buying and selling things not inventing 27 different theories on what was going on at that part of Mediterranean as we don't have much on them about the text of Greeks on them

[@AMat-vx3ew]

No Turk has yet appeared to say that they spoke Turkish and that the Trojans were Turks ?? 😂

[@wankawanka3053]

one appeared after you said this lol we sure have a lot of albanians claiming similar fantasies

[@k.umquat8604]

That's considered a crazy conspiracy theory even in Turkey. We don't claim those people

[@mercianthane2503]

I wouldn't be surprised if Wilusa was a Luwian speaking city, at least the ruling elite. Now, if the common people were luwian speakers, and the ruling elite spoke mycenaean greek, that would be quite interesting, and not so far from reality.

[@islammehmeov2334]

The ruling elite spoke HITTITE LANGUAGE 😊

[@mercianthane2503]

@@islammehmeov2334 Nah, they spoke irish

[@islammehmeov2334]

@@mercianthane2503 the problem is that Ireland didn't exist then

[@mercianthane2503]

@@islammehmeov2334 NO! For real? :O

[@islammehmeov2334]

@@mercianthane2503 yes and all of europe did exist

[@user-ex6nd8dq8w]

Το sum up : 1) Homer and all other Epics mention Troy and Troyans as bearing Greek names only, having Greek gods, Greek customs even Greek nick-names and distinguish them explicitly from their non-Greek allies coming from the interior. Mythology also mentions that Troy was founded by Arcadian Greeks. 2) Hittites referring to Wilusa (i.e. Ilion, the city of Troy) mention 2 of its leaders Alaksandu (which sounds very much the Greek name of Alexander) and Piyama-radu (which sounds very much like the Greek name Priamos), both names mentioned in the Epics (Alexander was the birth name of Paris, Paris was his nick name, Priamos was the nickname, his birthname was Podarkes). 3) Archaeology unearthed a city that looked like a Mycenaean citadel. and of course.... 4) Other than occasional trade items coming from the East as one would expect and which were a small minority of the local Greek stuff found in there, nothing non-Greek was found linked with the city of Ilion. Hittites themselves never claimed to have established there. Lydians were not yet there in western Minor Asia (e.g. Homer does not even refer to them - their ancestors Luwians were still in eastern Minor Asia). Modern "specialists": Troy was Hittite!!!! No!!! It was Luwian!!!!! LOL!

[@user-gs2wb2lp1v]

Today every country speak English but they are not all English people. Hellenic culture was dominant at that time. The new invented Greece language (Graikos) don’t understand Hellenic or Homeric language.

[@Chociewitka]

I was always convinced during the war it was some kind of Greek used among the elites. The commoners might have spoken several other more or less local languages of various origins.

[@emeraldknight2342]

Great video and work like always!

[@gerardmichaelburnsjr.]

That Homer implies there was no difficulty for the Greeks to speak with the trojans, b and yet he makes the point that when the local Trojan allies showed up, there was a cacophony of languages should be taken seriously.

[@user-gs2wb2lp1v]

Graikos don’t understand Trojans nor Homer. They destroyed themself Hellenic roots and Homer language. Only Arvanitas people understand Homer and Trojans but Greece government punish them if they talk. Politic scrutiny

[@user-ry6fg7xc9s]

Because the greeks were not greeks.

[@kostashliopoulos9293]

​@@user-gs2wb2lp1vwhat a joke. I am Greek true descendant of the Homeric heroes, i have red both the Iliad and Odyssey as a child reading it in its ancient (greek) language. Arvanites are ethnically Greeks once bilingual, not a single one of them is self indetify as a non Greek. Never has been a law forbidding them to speak arvanitika nor has been any law, political or social movement that has oppressed them. If you do not believe me, ask them yourself, stop lying and badmouthing my homeland.

[@gregorynixon2945]

Why?

[@DivineHellas]

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v 🤡

[@elsadmafioso]

I recently acquired a book, «The Troyan War» (in Spanish). it talks more about the city itself and its history, only occasionally refering to the possible language the Trojans spoke. the most notable mention of this was a seal found near the site, which contains a Hittite inscription, perhaps linking it politically to the Hittites, but not necessarily linguistically my favorite hypothesis is the one suggesting a non-Indoeuropean language being spoken there

[@jfppp1]

This is what I found when I was trying to learn about the language the Trojans spoke. Everyone was interested in discussing whether Troy ever existed, the various levels of cities at the site, etc. The language? They had no interest in that.

[@user-gs2wb2lp1v]

Illyrian, Dardanian and Hellenic languages are Successors of Hittite Language. So for sure Hittite is palaeuropian language

[@mukan9]

Hittite ritual texts were included also different languages. Scientists discovered new late bronze age languages in these texts as Palaic, Hattic, Luwian and Kalasma. Maybe futures newly found ritual texts could include Trojan Language. While Hittites religious ceremonies were happening vassal states representatives had to be ready there.

[@GM-sc3pt]

Its been a long time since I've read the Illiad, but I think Homer said Troy was colonised by Greeks. In the Illiad the Greeks & Trojans have no problem talking to each other. Artifacts described by Homer, such as the boars' tusk helmet "worn by young gallants" & the silver bowl with four handles, with a small bird on each one leaning towards the wine & water mixing bowl, have been found at Mycenaean sites. Homer also mentions Achilles giving a prize of "rare iron" at Patroclus' funeral games. These things & many others show the author had a thorough knowledge of these times. Homer also mentions Achilles receiving a written message, of "deadly signs", which shows he was literate. I think the Illiad was originally written in Linear B, on papyrus in Mycenaean times. There is another piece of circumstantial evidence that gives some support for this. There is one word that doesn't fit the poetic verse, but the older version of the word in Mycenaean Greek does.

[@mukan9]

My assumption is that Trojans spoke Luwian as other western Anatolians. But since Myceanean influence increased in western Anatolia after bc 1250 there could be Myceaneans rulers there. But All those questions regarding the late bronze age Agean region civilisations would be answered if Arzawa clay tablet archieve found. Because we know that Arzawa had regular diplomatic letter traffic with Egypt and Hittites. Arzawa archieve most probably includes more informations regarding the Aegean and Anatolian region.

[@gregorynixon2945]

I share your dream.

[@Thebattler86]

The Trojans spoke Welsh, because the Welsh are Trojans!

[@user-ex6nd8dq8w]

Why would your assumption be Luwian and not Greek? Luwians were not even "western Anatolians" but rather Eastern ones, neighbors of Hittites. Their connection to the later Lydian kingdom is still discussed, but the main hypothesis is that Luwian populations moved, in the aftermath of Hittite kingdom collapse, westwards and organised the kingdom of Lydia and as such Lydian could be a descendant language of Luwian. But that has no connection to Troy back in 1200 BC. It is puzzling to me how everyone rushed to suggest a non-Greek language just because Troy is on the east side of the Aegean Sea. I ascribe this to plain lack of intelligence. This is the equivalent of stating that Danes' language should bear no resemblance with Swedish language because Danemark is part of continental Europe and Sweden is part of the overall Scandinavian 3-peninsular complex on the north side of the sea. It can't be that all western and northern Aegean and all the islands were Greeks / Greek speakers and somehow the eastern part of the Aegean they had to be "non-Greek" speakers. At any rate any presence of non-Greek speakers would be the result of invaders from the inside of Anatolia and such invasions would happen from time to time but in absence of them by commerce along Greek language would re-affirm itself like it happened in archaic times (e.g. Carians expanded briefly but then Greeks quickly took the upper hand re-affirming their presence). There is absolutely nothing to tell us that Troy was a non-Greek city and/or a non-Greek speaking city. The state of Troy and the city/acropolis of Ilion was founded by ethnic Greeks, not Anatolians. It was populated by Greeks. Archaeology excavated what was basically a Mycenaean site and it is only not termed as such in order to avoid harming the very feelings of Turks today who like to minimize references of Greeks when it comes to Minor Asia. Sure Turks would like people to think that Troyans were not Greeks but Luwians or Hittites and sure the Turkish state promoted such pseudo-theories. But there is nothing non-Greek in there. Homer himself clearly describes Troyans as Greeks just not part of the Achaean unofficial confederation, hence non-Achaeans. But Greeks nontheless. The 100% of Troyan names are Greek and even their birth-names are all Greek, their Gods are Greek, their customs are Greek, there is absolutely nothing non-Greek there apart the fact that Troyans had also among their allies other people, non-Greek ones from the interior of Anatolia (but not Luwians, nor Hittites - they are not mentioned at all in there).

[@Diogolindir]

Such an interesting topic. Now I kinda want to play with Troy in total war. Still trying my first campaign with Achilles tho :(

[@llanitedave]

Interesting, I'd always assumed that Troy was an Anatolian city related to the Hittites, and that all the commonalities with the Greeks implied in the Iliad were just literary devices. Reality seems a bit more... complex.

[@-BlackMamba-]

Trojans were of Aeolian origin , hittites are further away to central-eastern Anatolia and thus they have nothing to do with that , since they never had any real influence towards western Anatolia, literally western Anatolia was belonging to Greeks , specifically north-west to Aeolians and south-west to Ionians

[@gregorynixon2945]

You may be right. The vast Hittite Empire cannot be ignored. Yes, it's complex.

[@user-ex6nd8dq8w]

@@-BlackMamba- The overall region of Troy was populated mostly by Aeolian Greeks from central Greece (mostly Thessaly and the central-northern Aegean islands). But the city of Troy (Ilion) itself had been founded by Dardanos, a mythical king of Arcadia back at the time Arcadians still ruled much of Peloponesus (also showing that Achaeans in Peloponesus had actually come from north of Peloponesus and restricted Arcadians in the central mountain ranges).

[@-BlackMamba-]

@user-ex6nd8dq8w well Arcadians are still Greeks tho , actually they are one of the oldest and 1st Greek tribes in the whole hellenic region , along with , Minoans , Pelasgians and Atlantians(if they existed indeed) I might forgetting 1 more tribe I don't remember it name rn but yeah , altho I think that Aeolians had some control and influence over Triy , but Arcadians might be indeed made the city , bcs they are know for doing some expeditions towards the east and the Aegean islands too

[@alexeysaphonov232]

Few things to understand discussing the topic. Now we are living in time of standartized languages which we're standartized between xviii and xix century. So we have dictionaries, pronunciation guidelines, schools, universities, media, etc. When we say that German is the only language spoken in Germany we are missing the fact that there are Berlinisch, Bayerisch, Schwäbisch, Sächsisch, Frisian etc. And they are related (all germanic, more than that Low East Germanic) but always quite mutually intelegable. The same situation mostlikely took place in the ancient Aegean and Anatolian region. When we are talking about old dead languages they either have writting record as Hetite or not as one spoken in Troy. What we can ask ourselves about was it somewhere indoeuropean or rather pre-indoeuropean. And when and If we can make sense of the original language of EEF which was spoken in Anatolia before indoeuropean language we could continue on this topic.

[@user-gs2wb2lp1v]

Sumerian is a language written with cuneiform. It is followed by Hittites and later we start with Illyrian language, Pellasgian and Hellenic. All of them are similar. But new Greece (Graikos) is different. Eg. they don’t understand Homer language.

[@alexeysaphonov232]

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v well, sumerian has No known relativ languages. Hettite and illerian and Greek are branches of indoeuropean language family. Hope you aren't claming a relation between languages based on writing system. Because it is not working like this. E.g. English and Finnish both use latin letters being unrelated at least within the period 9-12k years we can more or less reconstruct. And both started using this letters a bit more than one thausand years ago. The same hettite cuneaform isn't the same as sumerian. And languages are totaly different.

[@user-gs2wb2lp1v]

Dear those Languages you mentioned as Berlinish, Bayerish and cetera are dialects of Germanic languages.

[@alexeysaphonov232]

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v yep and the Standard Hochdeutsch which is a standartised based, if I remember it correct, on Hanover German. It is the situation in span of few hundred years which we know very good and there are a lot of writing and even sound records. On the other hand what we now call Hettite, Luwian, Lycian, Kalashma etc are languages with corpus in one good novel book spread through a few thausands years. Maybe relation between Hettite and Luwian similar to Berlinisch and Bayerisch where hypothetical Anatolian is "Hochdeutsch". Just as an example i will give you one sentance in Hochdeutsch, Berlinisch and Bayerisch and English. I had a bread roll for breakfast. Hochdeutsch: Ich habe ein Brötchen zum Frühstück (gegessen). Bayerisch: I hoab heid Fria a Semmel gessen Berlinisch: Ick hab' 'ne Schrippe(Brötchen) zum Frühstück jejessen. So basically what you can see above are distinctive enough languages if they have any political status. Also Dutch or Dänisch are not much different from Hochdeutsch as German (also Austria and Swiss) local dialects.

[@zurgesmiecal]

great video

[@DNS-FRANK09]

Awesome ❤❤❤

[@Rithymna]

I hope new findings will someday help us with this question

[@sotirismitzolis5171]

I think the Luwian hypothesis is most probable.

[@Jessi_apo]

We don't know more than omerous the other is opinions

[@g70ful]

Mycenaean Greek. The Troyan war was a civil war. The importan thing is that Troy and Frygia in Asia Minor were establised and colonised in prehistory form people from northen Greece where the Greek Macedonia is, and only Greek and their name in macedonia was Brygia, the people were called Bryges, the B changed to F according to the evolution of the language. They were GREEKS with THRACIAN origin. Sources: Herodotous and the Greek born in Cicely Diodorous the Cecillian. Diodorous at his time 1st century BC also wrote that the Greek toponyms in Troy and in Crete with the Minoan civilization were identical which could mean a lot about the connection between them.

[@jkosch]

My gut feelings is a Luwic language with a substratum of the non Indoeuropean language spoken in the early Bronze Age in that region. But is without doing more detailed research, just based on reading general (and often older) books about the Bronze Age in the Near East, Anatolia, some Online sources and so on, Museum visits, etc. and not from actively hunting down papers about the topic.

[@user-gs2wb2lp1v]

The Lowic language is a derivative of Hittite one. Before Hittite was Sumerian. The Illyrian Dardanian and Hellenic languages are Successors of Hittite so Anatolian languages are base for Indo-European languages

[@dinokaijumaster1254]

Homer and euripides call the troans phrygians, but this is probaby inaccurate, because they didn’t appear till the era of homer, they didn’t exist yet in the bronze age

[@silviosposito375]

Homer (or the poets named Homer) writes (really sings) many centuries after the Trojan war. Probably he (or they) changed the Trojan names in Greek. Trojan culture was related to the Anatolian (Hittite) world. The Hatti were the ancient inhabitants of central Anatolia, before Hittites' arrival, and probably spoke a non indoeuropean language (protokatvelian?). Trojans perhaps spoke Luwian or also a protokartvelian language or another ancient language forever unknown.

[@BFDT-4]

Recently, we have concluded so far that Troy is not necessarily "Troy", that is, there is less proven evidence that what we thought was the site of "Troy" in the Iliad may not have been. Then, there is the problem of the language. If we don't have the site, where there could be inscriptions, then what was the Trojan language really? ;)

[@nikosmihalo4706]

Like say homer achaians and Trojan talk same language

[@user-gs2wb2lp1v]

Homer language is not like Achaian but like Tsakonian of Sparta. This language is disappearing by pressure of Graikos or new Greece.

[@gregorynixon2945]

I pay little heed to Homer's writing dealing with mythic memories 400 years later. Home did not even remember the existence of the Hittite Empire! Homer, if he existed, was a poet, a teller of tales, combining those from all over. In his songs and tales, his heroes are going to have to speak the same language so they can be understood by his audiences, who always seem to have spoken a form of Greek.

[@gregorynixon2945]

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v I see you like mythmaking yourself.

[@sarp4919]

Troy and Greeks had same language and culture according to Homer.

[@gregorynixon2945]

@@sarp4919 Homer is not a reliable historical source. He seems entirely unaware that Troy was surrounded on three sides by the vast Hittite Empire. He wrote or sang his epic poems for Greek (Hellenic) speakers and he wanted both sides of the war to have a voice, so he had to portray these 400-year-old warriors as all Greek.

[@ghostlightdc]

Homer not saying they speak different languages is indicative of nothing except his need to tell a coherent story. He does however mention the Trojan army speaking different languages and needing interpreters. I'm not suggesting this is firm evidence of anything, but people cannot use Homer's failure to mention linguistic difference as proof of anything. Language specificity is typically an afterthought in storytelling. I don't believe the Bible ever mentions what language is being spoken even though the possibilities are Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek, Latin, and others.

[@klausbrinck2137]

Well, the most straight-forward way to interpret it, would be, that the Trojans speak greek, but also have allies (helping them in the batlle, and coming from nearby regions), that don´t speak greek. It directly acknowledges, that yes, there is other, foreign languages, but that the Trojans aren´t the ones speaking them, they just speak greek.

[@ghostlightdc]

@@klausbrinck2137 It could also be interpreted that Greek is the diplomatic language, or hat Greeks didn't speak Trojan much like modern English speakers abroad. I still think it means nothing though.

[@jimanast3593]

​@@ghostlightdc In that time there weren't any "linguae francae". The first one was Greek during Hellenistic period & the second one was Latin, later. ALL who were speaking greek were Greeks and those who were not speaking greek were Barbarians (ie: not understandable). Homer, about the meetings of Acheans & Trojans describes EVERYTHING (ie: people present, their ancestors, the presents given etc) but no translators, because there weren't any!

[@ghostlightdc]

​@@jimanast3593 That's simply untrue. The diplomatic language of the late Bronze Age was Akkadian. It doesn't matter what Homer says as you have to separate the actual history from the story. Homer was not alive at the time of the Trojan War, and his goal was to tell a story not to be a historian. While there are kernels of Bronze Age history remnant in the story such as weapons and the Catalogue of Ships, Homer was not trying to impart a detailed historical account.

[@ghostlightdc]

​@@jimanast3593That's simply untrue, Akkadian was the diplomatic language of the late Bronze Age. Homer was not a historian and did not live during the time of the Trojan War. What he wrote in a poem does not constitute evidence of languages spoken 500 years prior. In the movie Troy, everyone speaks English.

[@wintermooonwolf]

...BC history is so very interesting!...

[@eranshachar9954]

I think rather or not the Trojan war happened as we know of in the Illiad doesn't matter. Bottom line it is clear Troy wasn't influenced just by one language/culture. I always thought they spoke Luwian but I believe it was a unique combination language between Luwian and a form of Greek. I wonder how Luwian even sounded like.

[@alisarikaya6327]

Part 1) Bulaşığlar(Peleasg), Akalar (Achaean Greek Achaios) and Turlar/Tur's (The Dorians/Dōrieîs/Dōrieús) Camera Translation. Some of those who came from Central Asia with great immigration; a part of them settled in the Balkans and the lands of today's Greece. The first inhabitants of the territory of present-day Greece were the "pelasglar/Pelasgians" (Romeican: Helaoyoc Pelasgós). The Sumerian word bala means rule, 'subordination' (dominance) and 'to riot, to stir up', 'to overtrow'. This word has evolved into Old Turkish as bula/bulga, which means 'to find', 'to mix', 'to anger', 'to overturn'. Derived from this root, the practice of contagious/bulgash (verb) means 'confused'. means to be'/'to be in a confused state'. Old Turkish bulaşıg/bulgaşıg derived from this practice The forename also means 'fighter', 'warrior'. Therefore, the name Romeyka Пelaoyoc Pelasgós has been transformed from the Old Turkish name of Bulaşı. Herodotus states that all the lands of present-day Greece was concured by Pleasgians And that it was originally called "Pelasgia". Lemnos writings; that the "Pelasgs" were Athenians who came to hold (conquer) the island. According to Homer, the "Pelasgs" were allies of the Turuyans who fought against the Achaeans in the Trojan wars. According to Thucydides, Deucalion's son writes that before the Hellenic period, the country took the name of the "Pelasgs". Ephorus states that the "Pelasgs", who led a military lifestyle, gave their name to the whole country and colonized Crete. Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Pelasgians in present-day Greece were the real societies of his land, and first of all he writes that they settled in the Peloponnes. As can be understood from all this, this society is the oldest and its name is Bulaşığ's Later, Akalar/Achaeans (Axatoi Akaii) and Turlar/Turs (Ampuis Doris) from the old Turkish tribes in Europe migrated to the Greek lands and gradually mixed with the Bulasugs. The Sumerian word aga means 'crown', 'ruler'. This word is in the Old Turkic language aka/Ağa, in today's Turkish language. Old Turkish Tor/Tur also means yigit/'bagatur' (hero). It is not known exactly where they came from to todays Greece Since the great migration that started from Central Asia in the 7th millennium BC lasted for several thousand years, the period when the Bulaşığ's (Pleasg's) reached these lands is It should be around 5,000 BC This period is the first developed civilization in the lands of today's Greece with the established city khanates, writing order and uzuş (art) works. The "Dark Age", which the Westerners claim to have started with the "Doric invasion", is a random name. Other than that, the period of the "Macedonian" Khanate has nothing to do with "Helen". Hellen is a person's name. Aka period begins after the Bulaşığ (Pleasgian) period in Greece. It is claimed that the Aka/Achaeans migrated from the north to presentday Greece in the 1800s BC. Homer in the Iliad for Greek society today uses the name Akali (Achaean) as a general term. Homer here describes the period that is now called "Mycenae" (ca. before 1150). However, there is no evidence that Greek society in the "Mycenaean" period used this name to describe itself. "Mycenae" is a name made up by Westerners. In the past, a society called "Mycenae" never existed. The Turlar (Turs/Dors), who spread to the territory of present-day Greece after the Achaeans, formerly lived in the northern mountainous regions of today's Macedonia and Epirus. The poor conditions they were in caused the Turs (Dors) to migrate south to the Peloponnese and several Aegean islands and Crete. Thus, the Turs gradually went to Western Anatolia and Crete and spread to many islands, including Rhodes. For example, Sparta is a city founded by the Turs. Therefore, in the territory of present-day Greece in ancient times society did not have a permanent elgin (ethnos) name. The society was usually named after the dominant tribes, and accordingly, due to the descriptions of the ancient historians, there was a false impression that there were many separate ethnos in the region. Western historians also made use of this epic (mythological) history and made up different ethnos and put the business into an inextricable situation. From clan names such as Bulasuglar, Akalar, Turlar they created a progenitor and invented an upside-down culture. Western historians describe the history of Greece as the "Mycenaean Civilization" between about 1600-1100 BC. The "Dark Period" between 1100 BC and 800 BC, 800 BC - 490 BC "Archaic Period", The "Classical Period" between 490 BC and 323 BC, The "Hellenistic Period" is the period between 323 BC, when Alexander the Great died, and 146 BC, when the Roman rule began. They call the period after 146 BC the "Period of Harmonization with Rome". This is naturally an inaccurate chronology and makes it even more confusing It is not a nerse (thing) other than mak. In fact, the period hitherto ended in 339 BC, when Alexander's father Bilip (Diumnoch Filippos) entered the territory of Central Greece. Thus, the period from 339 BC to 146 BC is the "Macedonian" period. Bilip means "informed" (Wise man) / "knowledge" (Elderly / scholar). The Lelantine War (710-650 BC) is the oldest documented war. This war was fought in Chalcis [Kalik: sky, upper floor], which were important urban khanates on the Lelantine plain of Euboea and Eretria [Eret/Erat: community]. Both cities suffered a collapse as a result of the long war, but Kalik won the war. With the introduction of money in 680 BC, a pottery vessel (merchant class) emerged. The noyans (aristocrats) of the urban khanates They began to be affected by the wealth of the oppressors. Noyans, starting from 650 BC, in order not to be overthrown. they had to fight. Increasing karachu (population) and scarcity of land, many cities a contradiction between the poor and the rich in his khanate created. At that time, "helot" [hel in Hebrew means "bend"- The subjugated society known as Sapartida (Enápra Spárta) was a farmer. Old Turkish saparti/saperti means 'saplatmuş / "added" / . Every Devastated male citizen is a permanent çeri (soldier). He became a soldier of the Saparte army. The Noyans also had to live and be educated as cherries/Çeri's (Jani-Sarry) This partnership neutralized the social conflict between rich and poor citizens. The person who carried out these communist and militarist oriented onargalan (reforms) was Sapartih Ala Kurguş (AUKOüpyoç Lykourgos). Alaca, which is also mentioned as a person's name in old Uyghur documents, is 'Alaca'; fright/fiction means 'fear'. Atan (Aerva Athina), a late 7th century BC suffered a land and agricultural crisis, which led to internal strife. caused. Old Turkish at t - eden; means 'good', 'saghkh', 'solid'. The moderate onargalan (reforms) of Salan (Zoov Sólon) in 594 BC improved the condition of most of the poor, bringing a rift (stability) to the Atan, but also firmly entrenched naïveté (aristocracy) into uda (power). Old Turkish salan means 'who brings to a state. In the 6th century BC, many cities such as Atan, Saparti, Koruntu (Kopivbos Kórinthos) and Tepe (Oñßat Thibe) emerged as effective urban khanates. Old Turkic corout/korut means 'fenced place. Each took control of the surrounding countryside and the smaller sazak (town). The cities of Atan and Koruntu became sea and bad (trade) powers. During the 8th and 7th centuries BC, the rapidly increasing karachu (population) resulted in many emigrating to establish colonies in Southern Italy, Sicily, Western Anatolia and further afield. Migration ended in the 6th century BC. However, these cities unable to control the colonies they established later on. came, and they kept only their virtuous (commercial) ties with them. This migration process also brought the urban khanates of present-day Greece into prolonged conflict with the Syracuses in Sicily and the Carthaginians in North Africa. These conflicts lasted from 600 BC to 265 BC. In order to get rid of these conflicts, Rome formed alliances with the scavengers (merchants) working for the Syracuses and Carthaginians. Thus, Rome became a new dominant power in the region. The First Punic War began in 264 BC. Elam khan Tarigh (Aapeios Dareios) conquered Atan in 490 BC. He formed a navy to capture it. Tang, which means 'ancestry', 'seed' and 'past' in Old Turkish, is also mentioned as a male name in Old Uyghur documents. Although the Elamites were outnumbered, the Elamites withdrew when the Athenians, supported by the other urban khanates, defeated the Elam army at the Battle of Marathon. Ten years later, Tang's son Kur (Kopoch Kins) launched a second attack. Old Turkish kur means 'rock'. Some urban khanates surrendered without resistance to Kur's army. However, the unity of the city khanate, including Atan and Saparti, resisted the Elamites. Then, Atan and Sapartı fell against each other, and a long period of war began between them. They made a thirty-year peace that finally ended the conflict in 445 BC. However, they started war again in 431 BC and made peace again 10 years later. Thus, the country entered the 4th century BC under the rule of Saparta. In 395 BC, the cities of Atan, Argu (Apyoç Argos), Tepe and Koruntu opposed the Saparte subordination and started the Coruntu War (395-387 BC). Old Turkish argu means 'between two mountains' / 'cliff'. Later Saparti BC He was defeated by Tepe in 371.

[@Alusnovalotus]

Troy might’ve been the Alexandria before Alexandria in Anatolia.

[@hrvatskiapoksiomen9]

Well, as a historian i must say the mistake that contemporary translators did for Odyssey and Iliad: Homer never said that Greeks faught against Trojans. He wrote that Achaeans faught against Trojans who spoke the same Greek language . Achaeans are one of the 4 main Greek tribes. Ioneans were also one of the 4 main Greek tribes Dorians (spartans, macedonians, epirotans) and Aeoleans are the other 2. Homer was Ionean Greek from Miletos (western Anatolia) next to Troy. For Homer it was granted that Trojans were Ionean Greeks just like him, worshipping the same Greek gods, with the same Greek names and toponymy: Priam's paremts were these Greeks: Laomedon and Leucippe Priam's kids were these Ionean Greeks: Hector, Paris (called by Homer as Alexandros also), Cassandra, Helenos, Deiphobos, Laodice, Polyxeni, Polydoros, Polites, Antiphos, Hipponous Only Greeks have Greek words as their names and toponymies That's why there is not even one line in all Homer's rhapsodies stating that Trojans faught against Greeks but Achaeans against Trojans

[@user-fm8zp9vp4q]

Plato says that the Greek names of the Trojans are constructed by Homer. Most ancient writers call the Trojans ``”Barbarians" and "Frygians". Philostratus says that the spirit of Hektor spoke a barbaric language. Homer says that anyone seeking civil war is a bastard without honor. So are all of his heroes if Trojans were Greeks. When the Kings of all Greece presented themselves as suitors for Helen no Trojan came to claim her… If the Trojan war was a civil war then there is no point to the Homeric Epic.

[@Sofia-0001]

Trojans were Pelasgians, Pelasgians were no Achaeans and before being assimilated in hundreds of years the Achaeans were no Ionians, Aeolians, Aegeans.

[@napalm-gr]

​​@@Sofia-0001 Pelasgians were the ancestors of the people of Greece in ancient times.

[@-BlackMamba-]

​@user-fm8zp9vp4q ma guy if u believe that about the "Civil wars" then u must be really stupid , bcs in ancient Greece almost every war fought was a civil war and the greatest example of them is the Peloponnese war where it was Athens vs Sparta , Trojans were greeks , and specifically of Aeolian origin

[@-BlackMamba-]

​@@Sofia-0001wrong , 1st of all pelasgians were Greeks, but Trojans weren't pelasgians , theh were of aoelian origin .

[@gregorynixon2945]

It needs to be remembered that Ilios (Troy) was a commercial crossroads at the mouth of the Hellespont, so all sorts of people passed through or settled there. Likely Aeolian Hellenes had made their way there and it's not impossible they were among the ruling class. But Hittite, since Troy sat right on the edge of the vast Hittite Empire, may have been widely spoken; but Luwian was the lingua franca of the Hittite Empire (overtaking Hittite itself) so that may have been all that was needed. Just because Tyrrhenian was not Indo-European does not mean it would not have been spoken and the Tyrsenoi (as the Egyptians called the Tyrrhenians) were known to have dwelt on Limnos. So the inhabitants of Troy likely spoke many languages, like in most seaports, but I'd wager Luwian, Tyrhennian, and Aeolian Greek were predominant.

[@user-gs2wb2lp1v]

Trojans were Dardanian, Illyrians and Arvanitas today Albanians. As we know by history after the distribution of Troy Princ Enea took all his people and moved westward and settled in Butrint to their brothers in south Albania. From there they settled in Toscana today Italy.

[@gregorynixon2945]

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v Too funny.

[@alisarikaya6327]

part2)Origins Troy. This trend of thought will reach its peak with Francesco Sansovino. His father, the famous architect J. Sansovino, came to Venice to build the San Marco library and his son settled in this city. Francesco earned his living as a writer and editor, compiled and published hundreds of volumes. Among them, he has seven books on Turks, the most important of which was published in 1560. The year 1560 is a turning point in terms of the progress of the Turks in the Mediterranean: That year, the Spanish navy was defeated in the Battle of Djerba and the West Mediterranean road was opened for the Turks. Sansovino thinks to compile and publish articles on the Turks; for such a corpus has not been produced, at least in Italy, until then. There is nothing directly related to the Turks in the collection of travels published by Giovanni Ramusio of Venice in three large volumes in the 1550s. Since the Turks, who are close neighbors, are not considered part of the travel literature aimed at promoting the newly discovered countries, it is up to Sansovino to fill this gap in the field of publication. The aim of the writer-publisher is to respond to the expectations of his current readers and to synthesize what is known and thought about Turks. Ramusio's synthesis for distant countries before that falls into the type of geography in which travel literature forms a part. There are places to go, see and buy here. The countries held by the Turks are part of a common past, and the knowledge about Turks is concerned about a common future. For this reason, "Turkish knowledge" goes into history, not geography, and Sansovino will compile a history book. The title of the book is "On the Universal History of the Origin and Empire of the Turks" (Dell'Historia Universale dell'Origine et Imperio de 'Turchi). It is necessary to dwell on this name. As we mentioned above, Sansovino offers a history book; however, this is a "universal history" and yet it is not a general universal history, but a universal history of the Turks. More precisely, it is declared that the universal history belongs to the Turks. The word imperio also refers to this; because the word we translate as "empire" actually means "absolute power" and hence imperium is one and cannot be shared. As the Eastern Roman, that is, Byzantine emperors, Charlemagne and his successor Holy Roman-Germanic rulers did not want to recognize the imperial qualities, the Ottoman sultans also continued this tradition and especially in the years when the Historia Universale was written, Suleiman the Magnificent, Charles Quint did not become the German emperor. he insisted on recognizing it only as the king of Spain. Starting from the third edition of the work, the word "della", which we translated as "subject", which makes the statement relative, will be removed from the title and the subject will be determined as "the universal history of the Turks" in a way that will not raise any doubts from now on. In the introduction to the first edition of Historia Universale, published in three fascicles between 1560-1561, Sansovino describes the purpose of the book as follows: Among the states of the world for which we have enough knowledge, I always thought that the Turkish ruler deserves the most respect for his state, because of the great obedience of his people and the happy fortune of the entire Turkish nation. It is astonishing to see in what form and how easily it grew and gained such fame and fame in such a short period of time. If we investigate their origins and carefully examine their internal and external affairs, we can say that indeed the military discipline, obedience, and fortune of the Romans passed to this race after the collapse of this state. The word fortuna, which we have translated as "fortune" here and mentioned twice, actually corresponds to the old and noble meaning of the word "state", which is used only in terms such as "state bird" in Turkish today, and is equivalent to the concepts of "welfare", "happiness" and "blessing". Used twice with Fortuna, obbedienza, or obedience, gives the two keys to the success of the Turks, as well as the axis of similarity and continuity between the Roman and Turkish empires. However, the "state", which is a divine blessing, was achieved through the obedience of the Turks to their chiefs and the military discipline used as an equivalent. In his introduction to Annali Turcheschi, which was first published in 1571 and contains a chronological breakdown of Turkish history as an appendix to the Historia Universale, Sansovino further clarifies this issue:I have always argued that the greatness and strength of the Turkish nation deserves great respect, because when looking at the army and civilian orders that have existed for a long time, it seems that they are not rude in their situation, but precious people. In terms of the army, I cannot see who of ours could be more disciplined than the Turks and closer to the Roman order. As the inheritors of the aforementioned Romans, they settle for little during the expedition, are very patient in hard work, obey their chiefs, follow the goals of conquest stubbornly, are masters of war tricks, and as a result carry out military affairs with such steadfastness that they do not give up any difficulty to win and dominate. As for the things of the peace order, they please their people with this form of absolute justice, by breaking all the tricks of the case that arise from the confused minds of the quarrelsome people and by quickly resolving the conflicts of others in their own interests. Therefore, a few years ago, I gathered what they had done in a fairly accurate book called The Universal History of the Origin and Empire of the Turks. My goal is for the world to learn the basis of their power by seeing and reading them, and therefore to find a cure to their unbridled chaos that advances like a steppe fire and will henceforth bring calamities to us and burn the last remnants of Christianity. At the same time, in this text published in the third year of a new Ottoman-Venetian war, the year of the Battle of Inebahti, Sansovino could not be expected to be a "Turkish friend"; And what could "Turkish friendship" mean in 16th century Venice? Sansovino is a Renaissance intellectual who believes only in the necessity of a good and correct recognition of his adversary, but when this effort for recognition reaches a level of admiration, this admiration was expressed openly even during the days when two nations fought on a frontier from the Dalmatian coast to Cyprus. is not an obstacle. Likewise, the Venetian sledgehammer Marcantonio Barbaro, who would spend most of his time as an ambassador in Istanbul, was sent to the senate upon his return to his hometown after the Ottoman-Venetian peace in 1573, which left Cyprus and a significant part of the Dalmatian coast to the Turks. He concludes in his report: Great prince and unique seers, since by God's will, the Ottoman emperor conquered so many provinces through constant victories, bound so many kingdoms to himself, and thus earned him a dreadful reputation all over the world, it would not be foolish to consider the possibility of his eventually reaching the universal kingdom. . The second edition of Historia Universale is published in 1564 and the third edition in 1568. Now it has become a classic about Turks and its effects are beginning to be seen. The French philosopher Jean Bodin, who published his The Method of History in 1566, handles the same theme: How can the ruler of Germany attempt to compete with the sultan of the Turks, and who can claim more absolute royal titles than this last? Indeed, if there is a power somewhere that can bear the name empire or a true absolute kingdom, that power is in the hands of the sultan. It is best to consider the sultan of the Turks as the heir to the Roman Empire; Because, after capturing Byzantium, the capital of the empire, from the Christians, he conquered the Babylon region from the Persians and added the countries beyond the Danube to the Dniester river to the former provinces of Rome, and all these regions today constitute the largest part of the lands in his possession. The aim of the French writer, whose hometown is far from the Turkish danger and whose main enemy is the German emperor, is more political. The main benefit of declaring the Ottoman sultan as the heir of Rome, who had been the ally of France against Germany for thirty years, was to withhold that title, which was the basis of his power, from the German emperor. However, this behavior of the author is proof that the Ottoman state has been a part of European policy ever since. Taking advantage of the Ottoman-Venetian peace in 1573, Sansovino Historia Universale published the fourth edition and the second edition of Annali Turcheschi. The seventh and final edition is published more than half a century later in 1654, in the midst of a new and long Ottoman-Venetian war. Its volume is divided into two, as it can no longer fit in a single volume. The second consists of 522 pages, and this is added Annali Turcheschi, or Ottoman history, brought to the end of the reign of Sultan Ibrahim. The 25-year Ottoman-Venetian war, which resulted in the conquest of Crete, will also end the comparison of Romans-Turks developed by Renaissance thinkers and spread by Sansovino. Venetian sledgehammers, who came to Istanbul after the peace signed in 1669, will persistently embroider the motif of "Eastern despotism" and this theme will quickly spread across Europe.

[@huseyinaksu2564]

Tyrsenian like language maybe?

[@gregorynixon2945]

Tyrsenoi or Tyrrhenian?

[@Ggdivhjkjl]

Carian should be pronounced like the word "care" (not "car") followed by "ian".

[@nezperce2767]

What's the name of Hector's wife and kid? His medium sister's ? Who 's Priamus nephew in Greek Army? When Trojans went to Sparta ( Paris met Helen) negotiations were on what dictionaries where used. You got this destruction of Crete when Thyra's volcano erupted while you've got quite a few cretan ships and army gathered and paid on their way to Ilion. Which is first in time. (ruined economy) Gathering money and sending ship and army into an expensive war? Croesus and Solon had a discussion I do believe we know the circumstances did they understand each other? Then you ve got Timaios by Plato

[@fabianofonda6758]

Probably they spoke a luvian language. Hittites tablets say the kings of the city were Luvian.

[@petertodorov1792]

Alaksandu is definitely a Greek Name Not sure what the Luvian equivalent would be

[@gregorynixon2945]

It's not inconceivable that the Hellenes borrowed the name from the Hittites.

[@Shenordak]

But he could still have had a Greek name influenced by Mycenean contacts, eventhough his mother tongue and the main language of Troy was Luwian or something else

[@mcburcke]

Unsolvable problem for the present. Without written evidence, its all speculation based on theory. One opinion is as valid as another in this situation.

[@mukan9]

It is interesting that all Myceaneans attacks to invade a land were done when Hittites were in weak position or nearly ending point. Minoan Crete invading of Mycenaeans was done at 1.450. At that date Hittites were in dark age and has no power since throne fights. Normally Minoans should require support from Arzawa which was strongest state in Anatolia. Also other west Anatolians (Lycia, Caria, Troy) should set a coalition against Myceanaeans since their Aegean interests will be effected and they will be the next targets of Myceanaeans. There should be Archeological findings in or around Crete about this big war. Maybe it was a big naval battle. Also there could be diplomatic letter traffic between Minoans and Arzawa. I dont see any possibility that Arzawa didn’t do anything against this invasion as a big power. At that dates Arzawa has the power to defeat Hittites. Also Arzawa invaded Crete and Morea peninsula around bc 1.900 according to archeological findings.

[@alisarikaya6327]

part2) Bulaşığlar(Peleasg), Akalar (Achaean Greek Achaios) and Turlar/Tur's (The Dorians/Dōrieîs/Dōrieús) Camera Translation. However, the newly established Hill tabernacle was short-lived. The city khanates, which were fighting each other, eventually weakened, "Macedonian" inn II. It fell into Bilip's palm and Bilip He subjugated the whole country within the year. He then subjugated all the Yiwu/"Thrac" tribes in the Balkans. Thus, with Bilip's subordination in 339 BC, the old period ended and the "Macedonian" period began. in 146 BC In this period, the "Macedonian" period came to an end and the Roman period began. Before the Roman period, Early Turkish was spoken in today's Greece and the lands of Western and Central Anatolia. Bulaşuğ, Akas, Tur's, "Friks/Phrygian", "Lydians" etc. These Early Turkish society's, consisting of the sum of the total, started to see themselves as Romans during the Roman period and gradually adopted the Roman language. After the division of the Roman Empire, the Romance language During the Roman period, it changed into the Romeyka language. This language is what Westerners call "Ancient Greek" today. There was no language called "Ancient Greek" before Roman times. Because there is no "Ancient Greek" inscription from the pre-Roman period. The only inscription from that period is the Limenian stone, but that is also Early Turkish. Eastern Anatolia, which is called Armenian, is Roman. it did not come under the rule of ParthianTurks For this reason, Romanic and later Romeyka languages could not affect Anatolia and the spoken language remained as Old Turkish in Eastern Anatolia, as in all the lands of the Parthian Khaganate. When the Seljuks entered Anatolia, Old Turkish was spoken in Eastern Anatolia, while Old Turkish and Romeyka were spoken in Central and Western Anatolia. Until the years when it gained its independence from the Ottoman Empire, the language spoken in Greece was the Romeyka language, which has now changed considerably. After the founding of Greece, the torluk (official) language of the country was called "Katharevusa", which means "the language of memory". This language is a resurrected form of Romeycan. Katarevusa is a form of Romeyka that has been eroded and simplified in the process, and has reached that day and has been simplified. In addition to this, while the independent Greece was being established, words that entered Greek from foreign languages were discarded and replaced with words from Romeyka or new words were derived from old roots. Only this language was used in schools and official institutions. However, since society does not understand this language, Community Greek (Demotiki) to be spoken on the streets are the ones.continued. When some deteriorations began in the Demotiki language, it was in vain (permitted) to teach Demotiki in schools in 1964. This bilingual status lasted until 1976 and with a law made in 1976, Katharevusa being removed from being the language of Demotiki torluk, it became a language.was brought. Thus, in schools, institutions and home spoken language was made one. The person who gave the Greeks the name "Helen" is a German.German historian J.G. Droysen, mid-19th centuryhis "Geschichte des Hellenismus" (History of Hellenism)without knowing the meaning of the word "Helene",coined the name, and then this name began to be widely used Helene, which comes from the word hel, which means 'to bow' in Turkish, means 'bent on' / 'lower oneself'.It also has a meaning like 'delight' (lust). Thus, at the end of the 19th century, Helen became the national renamed. However, until that time, the Greeks a part of balkan called themselves Romey (Roman). Here, it is necessary to consider the origin of the word Anatolia. Romeyka ávatoln anatolí, 'ascending'; vatolac anatolás also means 'east'. (However, in Greek, àvartoAn anatolí acquired the meaning "east".) Old Turkic commemoration †→agmak, 'to rise' / 'to be born';To commemorate means to 'raise'; from this root derivation purified †→ lamented, elevated' / 'rising' and monumental†→lament also means 'ascension. As you can see Romeyka anatoli with Old Turkish monument and Romeyka anatolia and Old Turkish memorial words, evolved from Early Turkish Romeyka and the different pronunciation in Old Turkish. Limni taşı/Lemnos Stone. Lemno Stone, from the 6th century BC It was built on the wall of a church on the island in 1885. found as This is what's left of the Bulaşığs (Pelasgs) The inscription has not been translated correctly so far. However, there was much speculation about this inscription, because those who tried to translate the inscription tried to do it with the Latin languages, Slavic languages, Albanian or Turkish spoken today. Attempts to translate this language with any European language are futile, because this language is an early Turkic language. However, trying to translate this inscription into today's Turkic languages is also a futile effort. The Turkic languages of that period were quite different from the Turkic languages spoken today. Therefore, it is unscientific to try to translate the early Turkish inscriptions with fabrications, similes and guesses. When I finished "The Real History of the Turks" that I wrote in 2014, I translated this inscription only in Turkish (Etrus). However, some of the Turkish words whose meanings are known meaning is misunderstood. In this respect, I saw that there were mistakes in my previous translation. This time I made the translation together with Turkish and Old Turkish. Therefore, some words whose meanings were misunderstood in Turkish were corrected with the help of Old Turkish. The first line written in capital letters is in Bulaşig, and the second line is in Old Turkish. The difference between the Türükük (Etruscan) language and the Bulaşığ (Pelasg) language. The distinction is only a dialect distinction. The O form not found in the in the Bulaşığ/pleasgian alphabet has letters. The Türüks also wrote the O sound in the U shape. In addition, in the Bulaşığ alphabet, the F form is read as V, as in the Türük alphabet, and the S, Ş and Z sounds are written only in the S form. The translation of the inscription into modern Turkish is as follows: "The dead man lying in the kurgan is Yarush Bay. The dead is lost. Change is eternal. To the dead whose service (service) is wise eternity has come true. Dignity is wealth. His reputation is great. His (service) wise [and] most it was good. [Let there be] eternity to the dead. The dead is [a] life lost. [This] is a commemoration of Race Bay. Behavior-weary deadly big [get] well-being. Contract up, good luck! dead really [a] bagaturdu (hero), his well-being is great. he sleeps (his service) was wise. Infinity is happening. Let it shine." Its English is as follows: "The dead person lying in the grave is Maras (Yarus) Bay. Dead is lost. Change is eternal. Eternity has come true to the dead whose service was wise. Prestige [and] wealth are maturation. feeling reputation [and] inspiration were great. His service was wise [and] the best. [Let there be] eternity to the dead. The dead is [a] life lost. [This] is a commemoration of Maras (Yarus) [May peace be] to the behavior-weary dead. Agree with the sky, agree with luck! The dead was [a] really a hero, his inspiration was great. His service was wise. His eternity is realized. Let him shine.

[@Sofia-0001]

Can we make rational judgements on "orally' transmitted, dactylic hexametric texts, 4-5 centuries apart? Of precisely 15,893 + 12,109 lines? Moat probably the collective job of few 3 century BC scribes, from the Greek Ptolemaic school of Alexandria. They also gathered Anatolian and Thracian mythology as Greek, while even what goes as Greek alphabet was most probably Phrygian.

[@wankawanka3053]

no such thing as thracian and anatolian mythology keep coping

[@Pelasgo-Thracians]

From Romania : Latins (Thracians/Pelasgian)/Romance 😉 Forța Enea ! Forța Italy frații noștri ! 😉

[@matthewtarlecki6567]

I am surprised that there is no wriiten literature let alone a complete library from Troy ever excavated. Granted, the invasive and crude archeological work by Schliemann may have bypassed any effort to look for any library.

[@deepcosmiclove]

Another interesting feature is the canal that is now completely forgotten although it is still there; an overgrown and inconvenient truth. Why should it be there? If Troy were actually at Hissarlik who would care to build a canal from Bounarbashi to Besika Bay? There is more of course: the site at Hissarlik encompasses only 5 acres and really can’t be the object of a ten year commercial war. The map’s legend indicates “Ancient Roads” and they all lead in and out of Bounarbashi and not Hissarlik. And why would the largest and most powerful city in the Greek world be built in lowland marshes when Bounarbashi is upland, airy, dry and beautiful? The current site at Hissarlik only makes sense as a modern sociological construction that pays no heed to the realities and sensibilities of the Ancient world.

[@jimanast3593]

There's much more than the excavated Troy; that's what earth scanning radars show.

[@GediminasStrum]

Apaliunas perfectly lithuanian name :D like Tarhunz - Parkuns ( Perkunas ) old lithuanian gods. About Wilusa - i could say any indoeuropean languahe, but not greeks. And not turks who were sitting in mongolianat that time

[@tonygjorgievski8966]

There must be a ethnic/linguistic link between Troy, Thrace and the Balkan region; didn't contingents come from Thrace and the Vardar River valley to help Troy.

[@nezperce2767]

Slavs came arround 2000 years later you might be informed by cyril or methodius ( origin of the words?)

[@tonygjorgievski8966]

I still think there must be a link for that region to join team Troy.

[@nezperce2767]

@@tonygjorgievski8966 balcan as a word is " invented" 2000 years latet get yr history motes corrected or study assyrians hyxos babylonians cretans (mynians and minoans) thracians dakians getes might be chibese not slavs though

[@tonygjorgievski8966]

I know, it is a Turkish word; it was used for the wider audience. Mt Haemus is the previous name. I aware of the peoples you have mentioned; Assyrians, Babylonians in ME, active there and in eastern Anatolia (Asia Minor) later. I am aware of the peoples you mentioned from the Balkan region as well. However, it does not change my thought that there must have been some link for those Balkan peoples to join team Troy. I am asking why they went to help that way and not south to Achaea. Even Wanax TV has asked what do you think? Maybe matters will become clearer with further research into the future. You never know it might end up being a very big surprise even.

[@nezperce2767]

@@tonygjorgievski8966 do the ignorant idiots Balkan is a Turkish word when Troy was around Turks didn't even exist in altai mountains history is a bit difficult thing cuz you have to have two things one average logic mind secondly but not least education you have to study in order to talk about civilizations of the time it's not nowadays giving and take information on neighboring countries if it's that difficult try another craft cooking might be a big easier

[@-BlackMamba-]

Well trojans were greeks , and so were achaeans too , this war was literally a civil war pretty much (like almost any war in the greek realm for example Athens vs sparta) which its believed to be mostly for the Influence and the trade in the whole Agean and black sea , since Trojans were growing rapidly as a power , while achaeans were already a power

[@st0rmrider]

You said not Indoeuropean but the name of the city is a form of Helios? Linear B Minoan language has been deciphered and we are not sure how early it replaced Linear A. Also the water level at 3.000 BC is a lot shallower than today, so the map is different. You focus too much on the language and forget that they shared Gods, customs, etc. So it may be convenient to dismiss that they spoke the same Language as a narrative device, but you have to dismiss a whole lot more, including the supposed reason of the war, being the capture of Helen by the Trojan prince. Lastly, since at the time there were Greek settlements in Crimea, it is far fetched to suppose that Troy was too far for them to be fluent in Greek.

[@klausbrinck2137]

Ήλιος Ίλιον The 2 words have different etymology/descent and different meaning, but sound similar. ilios, ilion, are written with a different "i" at the beginning, Transcription in english is Helios and Ilion

[@user-xc6co3ur2v]

If the continuity of King Priam's flag is traced, it will become a very interesting theory about the language of the Trojans.Agamemnon and Minelaus are descendants of the P/B/hrygian Pelops.

[@klausbrinck2137]

Tantalos, the predecessor of Agamemnon/Menelaos, and even of Pelopas, comes from Troy. Still, Tantalos has no relation to the royal family of Troy, The king of Troy, some great-grandfather of Priam, exiled Pelopas, probaly so that the city isn´t reminded anymore, of the horrible crime that Tantalos has committed upon his son Pelopas. So, he came to Greece, and came to be the king of the whole Peloponnes (= Isle of Pelopas)

[@gregorynixon2945]

No.

[@gregorynixon2945]

'Most scholars take the etymology of the name Priam from the Luwian 𒉺𒊑𒀀𒈬𒀀 (Pa-ri-a-mu-a-, or “exceptionally courageous”)' - Wik. Luwian is a good candidate for one of Troy's languages.

[@abdulhakimsaid9264]

Truvalılar traklardı, öyle biline vesselâm 🎉

[@alisarikaya6327]

part 1) The Origin of the Turks and Troy" During the Renaissance - or roughly from the invention of the printing house until 1600 - thousands of books and brochures on Turks were published in major European languages. Although the reason for this is that the Turks are perceived as a threat by the Europeans, the aim was not only to denigrate them or to search for ways to eliminate them, but to evaluate and understand the Turks beyond these initial reactions, and thus to accustom themselves to this dangerous neighborhood. In addition to a large literature that tried to exclude "barbarism" and "infidelity", an important and distinguished section of the Renaissance intellectuals tried to tame the Turks by drawing them into their own mental universe and by examining them with the historical and ideological perceptions of the West. European historians, who encountered the Turks during the Crusades and knew that they were of Central Asian origin, will seek a new origin for them in the 14th century. The Venetian doge and historian Andrea Dandolo, who died in 1354, when the Ottomans crossed into Europe, writes: The homeland of the Turks is behind the Caucasus mountains, its roots go back to Turkos, the son of Troilos, the son of Priam, the king of Trojans. After the conquest of the city, Turkos took refuge in these regions with most of his followers.1 From now on, Renaissance scholars will register the Trojan origins of the Turks. The Turks were not only "one of us" by being tied to the Greek mythology, which is the origin of Western historical fiction, but also those who would take Constantinople, the last remnant of the Roman Empire, were related to the founder of Rome, Aeneas. Thus, the empire did not disappear, but remained within the same family. Since the Middle Ages and starting with the kings of France, many European dynasties have sought to attach themselves to the heroes of the Trojan war, thus competing in the West with the German princes at the head of the Holy Roman-German Empire, regarded as the continuation of the Roman Empire; however, it is not the Turks who associate their Trojan origin here, but the Europeans themselves. The situation is actually even more complicated because Troy was famous for the war between the Greeks and the Trojans. In this war, the Trojans were defeated, but a group of survivors formed Rome with Aeneas, and Rome expanded over time, defeating the Greeks and avenging Troy. However, after the Roman Empire lost to the east and made Constantinople its capital, it became Greek, and the power passed to the Greeks again. This time, another Trojan group, the Turks, who took shelter in the depths of Asia, will return and take their second revenge. Before the conquest of Istanbul, we see that this interpretation was settled among the last Byzantines. Catalan Pero Tafur, who came to the city at the end of 1437, notes a saying that everyone speaks here: "The Turks will avenge Troy." The Trojan-Greek war also constitutes the first core of the struggle between East and West, Asia and Europe. The return of the Trojan-Turks heralds the victory of the Asians. According to Fatih's historian Kritovulos, such an interpretation was also adopted by the sultan. II, who went to besiege Lesbos in 1462. Mehmed stopped in Troy and searched the graves of the heroes mentioned in Homer and said: God has given me the revenge of this city and its inhabitants, even after many years. Thanks to me, the children of the Greeks, Macedonians, Thessalians, and Moraeans who destroyed this city in the past have received the punishment they deserve for the injustices they often inflicted against us Asians at that time and after that, after many years. It is natural that this rumor, which has been circulating between Venice and Istanbul for two centuries, has come to the ears of Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror and adopted by him. He has known this culture since his youth and wanted to be one of its heroes. During his visit to Troy, he had a Greek copy of the Iliad built for his library, 4 the following year, the Florentine Benedetto Dei, who met him in Istanbul, said, "also Alexander and Xerxes, Carthaginian Hannibal and African Scipion, Pyrhus and he told me that he wanted to be in the power of the thousands of past rulers. Thus, the emergence of the Turks and their conquest of Anatolia and Ancient Greek lands was interpreted by the Renaissance Europe as the return of the Trojans. However, the advance of the Ottoman state into Europe and west of the Mediterranean left the Trojan analogy inadequate. This new branch of the Trojans was not content with taking revenge on the Greeks, but on the way to become the continuation of Rome by establishing a new empire like their older brothers, the Romans. The Italian thinker Niccol Machiavelli, who wrote commentary on the work of the Roman historian Titus Livius between 1513 and 1519, says: Despite the absence of an empire that would fully retain Roman possessions, at least it was among the nations that lived in the beautiful virtue of these lands. it was seen that these lands were shared among the nations that lived in a beautiful virtue. The empires established by the Franks, Turks, the Egyptian sultan and the peoples of Germany today are among them. At the time of these lines, indeed, the Turks are only one of the candidates who could be the heirs of the Roman Empire. But in the meantime, they would eliminate one of Machiavelli's other candidates, the Mamelukes in Egypt, and they would have eroded the doors of Vienna in 1531, when the author's notes were published. The word "virtue" in Machiavelli's quote above is equivalent to the concept of "asabiyyet" developed in Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah, and the ability of one community to seize power and rule other communities and to establish a state or an empire. It expresses its ability. Thus, as long as Turkish pressure increased in Europe, alongside an anti-Turkish, propaganda-oriented literature aimed at large masses, it was the possibility and ability of the Turks to reunite the lands once dominated by the Roman Empire, which were of interest and almost enchanted the elite.

[@cosmomusa]

The Trojan war is not about Greeks and Trojans, only the westerns translate it in that way. The Greeks as my self we learnrd the Iliad as the Homer writing and describe the war between Acheans and Trojan's. The term Greek arive from hero Grekos (old man) and this is the roman exonim for the Hellenes in historical period. The ethnotic term Hellas mentioned in Iliad as a city area in Thessaly who was part of kingdom of Achilles.

[@gregorynixon2945]

Almost certainly Troy was attacked by the Peoples of the Sea, which may have included Achaeans. Likely Troy fell after Mycenae and Tiryns, so the Achaeans could have become homeless by that time and turned into raiders.

[@Thebattler86]

The Trojan war is documented by both Greeks and Welsh.

[@rursus8354]

The Trojan language was not Luwian. The Luwian languages spread in the same way as earlier the Hettite, that is from the Middle Anatolia. Troy spoke something older. What they might have spoken I have not any idea. Kaskian? No. Some other Anatolian language perhaps.

[@buildingbobby6402]

Hector was a dardanelle no?

[@nezperce2767]

Dardanian

[@buildingbobby6402]

@@nezperce2767 dardania the Illyrian tribe?

[@nezperce2767]

@@buildingbobby6402 not according to the texts I ve read

[@buildingbobby6402]

@@nezperce2767 just wondering, in Albanian we say troj or troj et e mi, meaning the land I’m from. Troj et ton : our land ( we own/are from ) if I were to say he’s on our side( part of the same tribe) I’d say osht nga troja jon - he’s from our land/part of our tribe. Just a thought, Troj is mainly used when talking about defending your homeland. Or when referring to land that is in your family name. Trojet e mi- would infer that its land you own and have owned for a generations

[@nezperce2767]

@@buildingbobby6402 same word in 10 langs or more. There are linguistic prophs that do declare that same words in different languages is not enough structure grammar conjugation just because couple of German linguistics read a book and fan similar this in words that doesn't mean that they proved Indo-European Theory Romans thought of concrete as a material to build houses everybody does nowadays does it mean that everybody took it from the Indo-European builders

[@PsS77_]

Greek of course

[@azwris]

As Homer mentions!

[@Thebattler86]

No Welsh. We are the Trojans who escaped slavery from you.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@Thebattler86]

​@@azwrisThen Homer must have had too much beer and doughnuts!

[@azwris]

@@Thebattler86 At least he was getting a meal, in comparison to others who don't eat at all and make irony on the internet, as their brains are almost gone!

[@Thebattler86]

@@azwris Doh!!

[@edwardjantyndorf4174]

Of course, they were not Turks, as these originated in Northern Central Asia, where they share linguistical traits with Mongolian people. In those days, Asia Minor was more influenced by Indo-European groups.

[@klausbrinck2137]

7:24 Greek: Apollonas Trojan: Apaliunas. Sounds like a Russian tries to speak greek, to my ears...

[@jwessel1969]

The name Apaliunas made me think of Lithuanian.

[@klausbrinck2137]

@@jwessel1969 But I mean the accent and pronunciation, and not the vocabulary itself. The vocabulary itself is a singlular coincidense, cause -unas exists in some lithuanian words. But every Russian, who tries to speak greek for the first time, will pronounce all greek words in that way...

[@snailrancher]

The material culture of Troy in the Late Bronze Age is naturally similar to that of their neighbors in Western Anatolia, i.e., the Luwians. Even the names "Priam" and "Paris" are likely derived from Luwian (Pariamua and Parizitis). Yes, definitive evidence is lacking for sure, but on balance, it points to Luwian, which is, frankly, what ought to be expected.

[@jimanast3593]

All names in the video are greek, but there are their Hittite versions. The same happens with the names Priam & Paris, U give the Hittite versions. The archaeological finds link Ilion to Greece.

[@kingafar816]

​@@jimanast3593your a Greek hotep. Troy and the Trojans have nothing to do with Greeks

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@kingafar816 CRY 🥾🦃🐫👉🏻

[@Vasilios-zy1vv]

@@kingafar816 and you do Greeks live in Anatolia for thousands of years

[@capricorn1784]

Priam .ne shqio esht qart fare pri.me udhheq.pri jes jam.edhe sot ne themi pri perpara.pra esht qsrt shqip

[@merttuncer1788]

Luwian 🙃

[@elsidsidirop9818]

Their names were Greek, their nobles wanted to marry each other, their gods were the same but the Trojans themselves must have been Chinese...

[@Thebattler86]

The Trojans were Welsh. Look up the history of Gildas and Brutus of Troy. Also the old name for London was Trinovantum, meaning "New Troy".

[@rv9785]

Trojans. Greeks who were not commited to Greek states alliance (The NATO of this ancient era) . Commited to Hittite empire. And the Alliace went against them. And then another empire went against the Greeks.

[@-BlackMamba-]

They weren't really committed to Persians, they were a powerhouse themselves , and achaeans were kinda the Nato of that time so yeah u kinds correctly , it's more like as if Achaeans were Nato while Trojans were the Russians pretty much like that was a rivalry for the influence and trade in the area , but they were both of greek origins specifically Trojans were Aeolians

[@nezperce2767]

@rv9785 no persians in the area yet, too many in between. Get back to grammar school. There is linguistics there is history. Should one put everything in a blender one makes a cake not a thesis

[@LuisAldamiz]

To me it's clear that, not just Troy, but broadly Arzawa and other areas in the wider Aegean region, were still, almost certainly pre-Indoeuropean in the Bronze Age. The Indoeuropeans had arrived to some parts of the region but were still a patchy array and not as absolutely dominant as would be in the Iron Age (incl. Antiquity, etc.), this was largely what was being fought in those days: Indoeuropean rather aggressive nations expanding around. Let's see: 1. The Daco-Thracians had arrived to the Eastern Balcans a long time before this (Western Yamna) but we have no evidence that they had ever conquered Troy (which is older). If you'd push for an Indoeuropean language being the one of Troy and nearby areas, I'd lean to Thracian, which had been spoken just across the Hellespont for two millennia already. Oddly enough this is not a theory that comes around anymore these days (for lack of any evidence, I guess). 2. The Greeks had arrived (to southern and central Greece) about a thousand years earlier but they had just a few ouposts later on in the area of Mysia (notably Miletus) and, other than the legendary conquest of Troy by Hercules we have no notion of the Greeks ever capturing Troy before the famous war of c. 1180 BCE. As for Alaksandu, it's clearly the same name as later Macedonian (not "Greek") Alexandros but that's not a Greek name necessarily (just as Thebes is not an Egyptian name either). 3. The Anatolian Indoeuropeans (Luvics, I'd call them), they had arrived to Upper Mesopotamia also quite earlier but were only in the Bronze Age pushing towards Asia Minor, including the conquest of Hattussa to a pre-Indoeuropean nation, the Hatti, and later of Myra, etc. to the Arzawans, who were necessarily also pre-Indoeuropean. Their "lingua franca" (Luwian rather than Hittite/Neshili) was surely becoming important in trader and diplomatic circles (Greek may also have played some role in this aspect) but it was not yet consolidated except for the Hittite vassals (sometimes treacherous but ethno-culturally affiliated in any case). 4. The Phrygio-Macedonians (IMO a distant relative group of Greeks, via Vucedol culture, but not really Greeks but precursors of Armenians rather) had probably just arrived to the region. So recently (late Bronze Age) that I'm reluctant to accept that they were established already in parts of Asia Minor as the Iliad (maybe anachronistically or confusing them with some other ethnicity, maybe even a Luvic one, as some new Anatolian inscription has been recently discovered close to those areas). In any case they shouldn't be ruling Troy. And that's the full list of Indoeuropeans who could have held any influence on Troy. What about the pre-Indoeuropeans. Well, they are much older and AFAIK come in two flavors: 5. The Vasconics or Anatolian Neolithic peoples, who settled most of Europe beginning by the Aegean region, and were mostly genetically close to Sardinians rather than Basques (who retain the language but show much greater Paleoeuropean admixture, otherwise similar in terms cultural like the mamutzones festival, etc.) These people were still clearly dominant West of the Ionian Sea (although the late Bronze Age also began taking a toll on them in terms of Celto-Italic invasions first of all) and may have been still present in pocket areas east of that line. But in general they seem to have been pretty much finished East or the Rhine-Adriatic divide. So I doubt that this could be the language of Troy. However, probably because of wanderwort phenomenon, we can infer via Basque, Iberian, etc. that Ilion probably meant "great city" and was rather therefore not the "true name" (hence also Troy). This pertains to the collection of words meaning "city" in the "ili/iri/uli/uri" group (which may stem from West Asia) and also the "uru" branch used in Sumeria and among the Dravids of India. It's possible that terms like Latin "urbs" and Tartessian "uba" are also in this wanderwort (wandering word) grouping, names like Elis, Jericho (Iriko), Jerusalem (Iri-Salem), etc. are also included. 6. The Pelasgo-Tyrsenians were a middle Neolithic expansive population, apparently stemming from Halafian culture in Upper Mesopotamia, who conquered much of Asia Minor and the Balcans before 5000 BCE. The archaeological trail for such invasion is very clear: destruction of Vasconic settlements like Sesklo and replacement by new ones like Dimini, new pottery style based on black paint rather than red one, new forms of art (think Vinca "venuses") and the first male figurines (arguably idols). It's also apparent in the legendary divine layering: the Titans are, broadly speaking their gods, while the Gaia-giants layer is Vasconic instead (Uranus surely also fits here, and should correspond to Basque Urtzi, meaning "the sky" or "the sky-god" and probably related to "ur" = water and "urte" = year, i.e. the water cycle). Some giants (Prometheus) became "titans", other giants (Aphrodite, Apru for the Etruscans, producing April) became "olympians" and some titans (Hades very clearly, the same as Etruscan Aita) became "olympians" as well, so it's not 100% clear cut ("broken phone" issue with legends), just as disclaimer. These Pelasgo-Tyrsenians had been in the region thus for some 4000 years before the Trojan War and we know that they persisted in Thessaly well into the Bronze Age (hence Pelasgians, which are also documented by the Greeks and the Egyptians, as Peleset). I have no reason to believe that their Asian cousins (Tyrsenians proper) were not also present and dominating at least Arzawa until the partial Hittite conquest. They are documented in Lemnos, just off the coast of Troy, all the way to c. 600 BCE, when the Athenian conquest delivered them the final blow, etc. Also the Etruscans were reported by Herodotus to originate in "Lydia" (West Asia Minor) and their culture and art is very clearly Aegean-related. Y-DNA J2, so important in Italy, as well as in the Balcans and Asia Minor, is not known (via ancient DNA) to be Vasconic nor Indoeuropean, and clearly spread from Upper Mesopotamia, so it's almost certainly a Pelasgo-Tyrsenian marker (also in Greece itself it's much more common in Thessaly and Crete, the two regions most associated to Pelasgians): it's thus very probable that the Etruscans (and maybe other associated populations like the Shekelesh-Sicels) spread it westward in the early Iron Age (and then Rome scattered it further to the west). The "Roman" (Etruscan?) legend of Aeneas also fits in establishing a likely "Trojan" (Tyrsenian) origin of the Etruscans (who contributed massively to Rome). For all these reasons I do not just think that the Pelasgo-Tyrsenians were real (even if surely divided in two sub-groups: Pelasgians in Europe and Tyrsenians or Arzawans in Asia, maybe more if we include the Eteocretans, etc.) but that they were the populace of Troy and thus Tyrsenian (Lemnian?) was the main language spoken in the legendary city of Ilion. They probably used Luwian and maybe even some Greek on occasion for trade and diplomacy but the main language must have been Tyrsenian.

[@jimanast3593]

​​ In that time there weren't any "linguae francae". The first one was Greek during Hellenistic period & the second one was Latin, later. ALL who were speaking greek were Greeks and those who were not speaking greek were Barbarians (ie: not understandable). Homer, about the meetings of Acheans & Trojans describes EVERYTHING (ie: people present, their ancestors, the presents given etc) but no translators, because there weren't any! All archeological finds show relation of Troy to the greek mainland & islands. Just one stamp cannot prove relation to the East; only some commercial affairs. Macedonians were Greeks, a Doric tribe, that's why they participated to the Olympic Games and other religious feasts to which only Greeks took part; their idiom belonged to the doric dialect and their names were completly greek. Philippos: he who loves horses, Alexandros: he who protects men (even in modern greek: philippi, the ones who like horses and horse racing; alexelion, the umbrella which protects from the sun; alexikeravno; the device that protects from the thunders etc).

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@jimanast3593 - Because you say so? It's very clear that the Hittites used three internal languages (Hattic, Luwian and Neshili/Hittite) and at least two other languages in foreign relations (Egyptian and Akkadian AFAIK). We don't have any evidence for them using Greek and almost certainly they dealt with Arzawan and Aegean affairs in the more common Luwian primarily. Macedonians were not Greeks, they were phylo-Greeks and their elites adopted Greek, full stop. I have this argument every week: Greeks did not consider Macedonians to be fully Greek, they just had to put up with that after Philip, otherwise they were pretty much like Thracians, Phrygians or Illyrians: "friendly barbarians". Macedonians did not participate in the Olympic Games, their royals, claiming heritage from Argos, did, only them. Alexandros appears to have the Greek word "andros" (man) however that may be an evolution from the original Alaksandu, which is similar but not the same and has the much more ambiguous "andu" element instead. For all I know about that word it could even be Semitc judging by its "al-" element, it looks totally Arab to me on first inspection but I'm not saying it is, my surname also begins with "al-" and is not Arab because the real segment is "alda-" = "the area" in Basque. Philippos is obviously Greek instead = lover horse (Greek uses suffixation: hippopotamos and not affixation potam'ippo).

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

lol. Love how all insignificant nations search for their history from within GREEK HISTORY 😃🇬🇷👍🏻 Macedonians were Greeks btw silly rabbit 😅 Also, the Phrygian tongue has the most isoglosses with Greek & the current consensus is that IT TOO was a Greek Branch. Check: Graeco-Phrygian 🇬🇷😀👍🏻

[@-BlackMamba-]

​@@LuisAldamiz my guy I ain't gonna read all this bullsht u wrote only from the 2 stupid stuff that u throw up early 1 of them that there weren't Greek tribes in the area of Troy before the achaeans which clearly a lie bcs Aeolians were there before the creation of Troy and Trojans are Aeolians IN FACT , and 2nd that Alexander isn't a greek name which in fact its also a lie and u just yapping propaganda and lies , Macedonian were Greeks , and Alexander is a greek name 1.000% it's coming from the name Αλέξανδρος which is by Αλέξ + άνδρας which literally translates into translates into "the one who attracts the men" , so keep your yapping and ur bullshts for yourself , bcs he was a greek not of Slavic origin or whatever for you to be calling him "aleksandru" or whatever

[@nezperce2767]

Try cooking using a blender

[@ecurewitz]

I guess we won’t know until they find some evidence of Trojan writing from the late Bronze Afpge. Very interesting

[@-BlackMamba-]

Well what u can know for sure , is that the whole western Anatolia was Greeks and that's Defacto , since northwest Anatolia was fully established by Aeolians meanwhile southwest was by ionians , and these are defacto greek tribes so

[@ecurewitz]

@@-BlackMamba- in the Classical and Archaic periods, it was Creek or at least heavily Greek. But in the Late Bronze Age, we don’t know for certain there appears to be some evidence that it could have been Greek or Greek influenced. But until we actually find some Trojan inscriptions or inscriptions saying they spoke Greek, we simply won’t know

[@-BlackMamba-]

@ecurewitz well so far as ik the last months I think they discovered also scripts from the hettites about that stuff that are showcasing that Trojans were of hellenic origin and overall talking about the war between Trojans and achaeans well at any case based on the Greeks we do know the origin of Trojans or at least their 1st leader and such stuff , bcs in greej literature there exist the Family tree let's call it , of the 1st Greeks who somehow happens to have the same names with either areas of Greece or hellenic tribes and these ppl happened to be their 1st kings also

[@LuciusQuinctiusCincinnatus111]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@Sofia-0001]

First lets recall the Hittite name of Troy.. Willushyia / Wilusa. Then Mysians and Thracian were related languages. Bithynia next to Mysia was Thracian. Pelaic, Lydian, Carian were related languages. Then Latin appeared on the Tyrrhenian spot in Latium, not the Etruscan and according to all ancient literature Tyrrhenian was a Pelasgian language. If all info left today are speculations lets notice a few certain things: Pelasg inhabited Lemnos means Wooden in east Romance; the first syllabic Pelasg word found in Lemnos says RU-MU-NY-IA; ZEUS is still ZEU, TATA is still TATA for Father, Vergina, Arcas, Pyra is still Fire in east Romance and plenty of Pre Greek vocabulary was inherited from the Pelag - Palaic language, of same meaning 'from the water', in the so called Romance languages. Then Herodotus names the GETAE laws as BELAGINES.. the region Strabo calls as Pelasgian homeland in the Pindus mountains overlaps the Vlach homeland, called throughout medieval times as PELAGONIA. The Vlach traditions are also called PELAGINE and the ancestors are called "B'lajini". The Sunday of B'lajini, Vlashini is celebrated one week after Easter, since immemorial times.

[@-BlackMamba-]

1st of all pelasgians were Greeks, and from the 1st ones too 2nd why are u mixing greek with Latins and shts ? Do u have any idea that u are just gapping about around 3.000 years of history just by mixing hellenic with Latin ? Bcs pretty much Latin are heavily Based on hellenic and Etruscans if I remember correctly but at any case is a language that comes way later than hellenic and even more later into "hellenic Territories" 3rd Trojans were of Aoelian Origin and Aeolians were also Greek

[@nezperce2767]

Vlachs come from an area that Dakians come first. Get a book with words not just pictures. Written alphabet is the way to gorm culture and civilization. There are texts 3000 years old . Study

[@Sofia-0001]

Study what? Wikileaks? No thanks! I got my info in many years of study.. and here is my info! In the earliest records Homer mentions Pelasgians of Argos as separate from the Achaeans, while Pelasgians fought along the Trojans. In Illyad Homer is specific that Argos was Pelaic and so was Zeus. The only language that kept God - Zeus as Zeu is the Vlach language. Since ancient Greeks to date God = Theos, in Latin is Deus, in Albanian -east Germanic Zot.. Then the only language that kept Pelaic Tata as Tata and not Pater, Pateris or Dada is the Vlach language. These are few proven facts, not speculations! Lydian Hesiod also mentions that “Zeus is Pelasgian and rules from the Pelaic Dodona”. He stated that Zeus was the father of Pelasgus, who was the father of Lycaon of Arcadia. True that Hesiods Achaean hating character ended up dead in a dung.. according to 3rd century BC scribes of Ptolemaic school of Alexandria. Asius of Samos describes Pelasgus as the first man born on earth.. Aeschylus talks about Pelasgus of Argos, ruling from Dodona, as a child of PALAICHthon. As per Aeschylus the Apian (from the water) Danai claimed to be “Pelasg” people from Argos and their line started with Zeus’ lover “Io”. Strabo defines the land of Argos as Pelasgian and the Pelasgians as the ancient Mycenae and its surroundings. According to Sophocles Tyrrhenians who migrated to central Italic peninsula were “Pelasgians, expelled by the Achaeans, from their Argos land”. Haecateus also mentions that “Pelasgus was the son of Zeus and Niobe” and his country was called “Pelasgia”. Pelasgus’s son was Lycaon, who founded the Arcadian dynasty. According to Hesichius the Phrigian Luc-os equates with Latin Lup-us and Da-os = Wolf Acusialaus states that the “Peloponnesians were Pelasgian people”. Hellanicus mentions that “during Nana’s reign the Pelasgian Tyrrhenians were expelled by the Achaeans from Thessaly and first settled in the Italic peninsula on Po valley river. Then advanced inland and took the city of Crotona where they colonized Turrhenia.” HERODOTUS classifies Pelasgians as Barbarians, speaking a Barbarian language, different from Greek. By Herodotus times though many former Pelasgian people were Hellenized already, but: “I am unable to state with certainty what language the Pelasgians spoke, but we could consider the speech of the Pelasgians who still exist in settlements above Tyrrhenia in the city of Kreston, formerly neighbors to the Dorians who at that time lived in the land now called Thessaliotis.. also the Pelasgians who once lived with the Athenians and then settled PLAKIA and Skylake in the Hellespont.. and along with those who lived with all the others and were once Pelasgian but CHANGED THEIR NAMES.” “If one can judge by this evidence, the Pelasgians spoke a BARBARIAN LANGUAGE. And so, if the Pelasgian language was spoken in all these places, THE people of ATTICA being ORIGINALLY PELASGIAN, bMUST HAVE LEARNED A NEW LANGUAGE WHEN THEY BECAME HELLENS! As a matter of fact, the people of KRESTONIA and"'PLAKIA" NO LONGER SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE.” “As for the Hellenes, it seems obvious to me that ever since they came into existence they have always used the same language. THEY WERE WEAK AT FIRST, WHEN THEY SEPARATRED FROM THE PELASGIANS, BUT THEY GREW FROM A SMALL GROUP INTO A MULTITUDE, ESPECIALLY WHEN MANY PEOPLES, INCLUDING THE BARBARIANS HAD JOINED THEM. Moreover, I DO NOT THINK THAT THE PELASGIANS WHO REMAINED BARBARIANS EVER GREW APPRECIABLY IN NUMBER OR POWER.” Herodotus also claims that the ENTIRE territory of Greece was called PELASGIA before. “Pelasgians lived in the islands of Samo Thrace, Lemnos and Imbros. The Lemons Pelasgians were expelled from their land in Attica before. Then the Hellen wives taken to Lemnos from Attica thought their children Hellen language instead of Pelasg, thus creating a crises identity on island.” Lemnos means Wooden in Vlach btw. Herodotus also talks about the Aegialian (Aegean) Pelasgians from the sea shore and the fact that “all the Aegean islanders were of PELASG 'race' in the past, which are called IONIANS in later times and the Aeolians who were also ethnic Pelasgians in the past.” Herodotus believed that “the ATHENIANS WERE PELASGIANS in the past, and were called 'CRANAI'.” Thucidites mentions that “before the Hellens there were the Pelasgians.. The Hellens gradually TOOK ALL the PELASGIAN CITIES in a long time, and MADE THEM THEIR OWN.“ ”..MIXED BARBARIAN RACES, SPEAKING TWO LANGUAGES. There is also a small Chalcidian element, but the greater number are TYRRHENO - PELASGIANS, once settled in LEMNOS and ATHENS..” According to Ephorus, the PELASGIANS of ARCADIA once lived a military life and they COLONIZED PELOPONNESUS - once called PELASGIA and also Thessaly, Epirus and Crete. Pausanias mentions that “In the times of king ARCAS (archer in Pelasgian and Vlach, τοξότης - toxotis in Greek) PELASGIA was RENAMED ARCADIA”. Pausanias also noted that the “PELASGIANS worshiped ORPHEUS in the sanctuary of DEMETER.” Orphic CULT is known as THRACIAN. In Orestes, Euripides also calls the INHABITANTS of ARGOS "Pelasgians". In Archelaus he mentions that when DANAUS came to live in ARGOS he declared that the PELASGIANS were to be called DANAI. Strabo says that “Almost every one agrees that the Pelasgians were an ancient race, spread throughout the whole of Greece, but especially in the country of the Æolians near to Thessaly.” Strabo defines the PELASGIAN ARGOS as being "between the outlets of the PENEUS River and THERMOPYLAE, AS FAR AS the mountainous country of PINDUS".. Throughout history the Vlach lands spread between these Strabo described borders, named until medieval times as PELAGONIA. Then Herodotus names the ancient GETAE teachings as BELAGINES, the Vlach laws are named later and up to date as PELAGINE, while their old and ancestors as B'LAJINI, synonym of Vlashini. Then in late 10 century Vlachs claimed their native land of Thessaly and Macedonia from Basil II and the Byzantine emperor, same who destroyed and conquered the Bulgars for land, had no problem to give the Vlachs back their land in south Balkans. There the Vlachs led by a Nicolitza Delphinas founded Megali . Great Wallachia, for the next 4 centuries, before were subdued by the Ottomans. In time the Pelasgian could only resist assimilation in the Pindus mountains of north Greece and around but by now are heavily screwed already as ethnicity, by the Greeks and the new Balkan nations around.

[@nezperce2767]

@@Sofia-0001 vlach in Homer ? You do not even speak a word in greek wiki is your sourse you are vlach no doubt and you can even read aeolian chalkidic alphabet. You are unable to study homer from the prototype no doubt. Achilles prays to Zeus as pelasgian do you need the rapsody relevant. I ll give you a better one Pericles epitaph subparagraph 40 your name is in it you are mentioned by the same noun as nouadays straits of singapore and malaya. ( easy way to find )

[@Sofia-0001]

@@nezperce2767 lol Who said Vlach in Homer. Im tired of kindergarten and noobs who claim to know history.

[@jperez7893]

luwian

[@alisarikaya6327]

part 1) Celtic Language as a Primary Branch of Ancient Japhetic or Turanian Language .　　　　　　　　　　PREFACE 　　　　　_ "In the ancient world the typical TURANIANS were the Egyptians; in the modern, the CHINESE and JAPANESE, and perhaps the MEXICANS. The TURANIANS existed in the valley of the Euphrates before the SEMITIC or ARYAN races came there (...) Of this family, the oldest people in Europe are the PELASGI and THE ETRUSCANS (Herodot, who wrote his "Historia" in the 5th century B.C.). The race also appears in the MAGYARS, FINNS, AND LAPPS, but ultimately they were everywhere OVERPOWERED by the ARYANS who drove them into remote corners." Moses W. Redding, Illustrated History of Freemasonry, Kessinger Publ.1997, p.194 The PELASGIAN LANGUAGE was not understood by the Achaeans. Herodot was Achaean himself (he was born in the Ionic city of Halicarnassus), but he wrote: "...We can conclude that Pelasgians spoke a barbarian language... Even now the citizens of Creston and Plakias speak another language, different from their neighbors'... But what about Hellenic tribes, to my mind, they always spoke one language." (I, 57-58.) That means Herodot could not understand Pelasgian and considered Pelasgian to be BARBARIAN LANGUAGE, together with LYDIAN, PHOENICIAN or THRACIAN. _ Pointing to the similar political systems used by the TURKS and the ETRUSCANS and that there is a substantial connection between the ETRUSCAN 'Fanum Voltumnae' (yearly political assemblies) and the 'Kurultay' of the TURKS. Ref. Deguines, De Groot and Klaproth : + J.Deguines "Histoire des Huns, Des Turcs et des Mongols" Paris ,1856 +De Groot , "Die Hunne der vorchristlichen Zeit" Berlin, 1921 + H.J.Von Klaproth, "Memoire sur l'identite des Toukiou et des Hioung-Nou avec les TURCS", Paris 1925 -- THE ETRUSCAN LANGUAGE - Isaac Taylor Putting aside the languages of such impossible races, the languages of Europe and Asia divide themselves into THREE GRAND DIVISIONS:- I. The ARYAN (JEPHETH) or Indo-European LANGUAGES, -such as SANSKRIT, PERSIAN, GREEK, LATIN, GERMAN, RUSSIAN, OR WELSH. II. The SEMITIC (SHEM) languages,-such as Phoenician, Hebrew, Arabic, and Assyrian. III. The TURANIAN languages, comprising the various FINNIC, TURKIC, MONGOLIC, DRAVIDIC, and MALAYIC dialects. But if it is admitted, as it must be, that the ETRUSCAN NUMERALS are decisively TURANIAN, I think, without further evidence, that the ETRUSCAN BELONGS to the TURANIAN FAMILY of languages. 　　　 "The Year 1995: After a week-long meeting in İtaly (Florence) Prof. Dr. Giovannangelo Comporeale, one of the most authoritative scientists regarding Etruscan studies, agreed to the fact that ancient ETRUSCAN INSCRIPTIONS were written in TURKIC TOUNGE" (Prof.Dr.Turgay Tüfekçioğlu, Etruscans, Orkun Publishing) (...) the ETRUSCANS appear to be an original TURANIAN race which formed the underlying stratum of the population over the whole world, and which cropped up, like the BASQUES in SPAIN, in that part of ITALY and ETRURIA." (Hodder M.Westropp, Handbook of Egyptian, Greek, Etruscan and Roman Archeology, Kessinger Publishing, 2003, p.482) 　　　　　DEFINITION OF JAPHETIC (Entry 1 of 2) 1: relating to or derived from Japheth who was a son of Noah -used vaguely as an ethnological epithet for the Caucasians of Europe and some adjacent parts of Asia 2: of, relating to, or constituting a group of early non-Indo-European languages in Europe and western Asia assumed by some TO FORM ONE FAMILY WITH THE CAUCASIAN LANGUAGES and INCLUDING BASQUE, ETRUSCAN, MINOAN, AND SOMETIMES SUMERIAN AND ELAMITE - compare Asianic JAPHETIC NOUN Definition of Japhetic (Entry 2 of 2) 1: the Japhetic languages 2: a Japhetic language ~ Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary. PAPER: THE ORIGINAL TURANIANS THE ORIGINAL TURANIANS were an Iranian [Allworth, Edward A. (1994)] [Diakonoff, I. M. (1999)] [Gnoli, Gherardo (1980)] tribe of the Avestan [religious texts of Zoroastrianism Boyce 1984, p.1] age (“2900 BC or more recent”]. The term is of Iranian origin:  [1. Encyclopedia of Islam (First ed.). an Iranian term applied to the country to the northeast of Iran.]  [2. van Donzel, Emeri (1994). Islamic Reference Desk. Brill Academic. p. 461. Iranian term applied to the region lying to the northeast of Iran and ultimately vaguely indicating the country of the Turkic peoples.] “THE LAND OF TUR”. The Tur Abdin region is the name given to the geographical area between the Euphrates and Tigris rivers by the ancient Greeks and Romans. This region was named Al-Jazeera by the Arabs CELTIC LANGUAGE AS A PRIMARY BRANCH OF ANCIENT JAPHETIC OR TURANIAN LANGUAGE Aygun Kosayeva, Department of Linguoculturology, Azerbaijan University of Languages, Baku, Azerbaijan Refs: pdfs.semanticscholar.org/.../4fc494150d1f132b660f... ABSTRACT This article reports on a study of word affinity in IRISH, AZERBAIJANI, and OTHER TURKIC LANGUAGES. In spite of Irishmen’s migration from the territory of ancient Azerbaijan to Asia Minor and further to the British Isles, they could preserve not only culture but also their language in a new motherland.  The present paper discloses semantic similarities and etymology of several words in IRISH, GAELIC, WELSH, and other TURKIC languages. The celtic language was a PRIMARY BRANCH OF ANCIENT JAPHETIC OR TURANIAN LANGUAGE because the meaning of several words in Celtic and Turkic languages proves kinship between Celts and Turkic nations. KEYWORDS: Celtic, Turkic, Saca, Japhetic, 1. INTRODUCTION THE HISTORY OF LANGUAGE DEVELOPMENT is closely connected with a history of people’s progress. Therefore, it is impossible to study the formation and development of this or another language in separation from deep studying of the history of the development of state and people. [History: pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...] Agglutination - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agglutination  CELTIC LANGUAGE FAMILY INCLUDES Irish, Scottish, and Manx (Gaelic languages) and Welsh, Breton, and Cornish (Brythonic languages).  The Celtic language family is a branch of the larger Indo-European family, which leads some scholars to a hypothesis that the original speakers of the CELTIC PROTO-LANGUAGE MAY HAVE ARISEN IN THE PONTIC-CASPIAN STEPPES. 2. MATERIAL STUDIED Refer to pdfs.semanticscholar.org/.../4fc494150d1f132b660f... 3. AFFINITY BETWEEN CELTS AND ANCIENT AZERBAIJANIS There are several facts indicating an affinity between Celts and ancient Azerbaijanis.  Moses of Kalankatuyk, an author of “History of Albania” wrote in his work that GOMER WAS A SECOND RULER OF CAUCASUS ALBANIA (ancient Azerbaijan) AFTER HIS FATHER JAPHET (Tunchay, 11). Canon Bourke supposed that:  Gael or Irish are sons of Japhet, and consequently Turanians (Bourke, 7).  Hebrew, Christian, and Muslim sources unanimously accepted that Turks are descendants of Japhet, son of Noah. Mahmud al-Kashgari wrote that:  “Turks have 20 branches. The race of each reaches Prophet Noah’s son Japhet, his son Turk”. Written sources, archeological and ground monuments indicate the territory of Azerbaijan as a place where Prophet Noah lived. Indisputable and basic evidence is the tomb of Prophet Noah in Nakhchivan (Azerbaijan). Ptolemy mentioned that  Noah lived and died in Naxouana, i.e. Nakhchivan (36). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakhchivan_(city) Pezron, an abbot of La Charmoye in France wrote:  “Japhet was the eldest of Noah’s three sons. This patriarch’s eldest son was Gomer, the founder of a people, and who they could be but the Gomarians, from whom, ACCORDING TO JOSEPHUS, the Celtae or Gauls descended.  And if Gomer is the true stock of the Gauls, as I have already made out by so many proofs and authorities, they must have a language quite different from other people and that was the Celtic tongue.  But to carry this name no farther, which indeed properly appertained to no other than the European provinces towards the west, it was at FIRST THE LANGUAGE of the GOMARIANS IN ASIA, then of the SACAE, afterward of the TITANS, and also of the CIMRI or CUMMERIANS. After all, that is a series of many ages, it became, at LAST, THE LANGUAGE of the CELTAE, who was better known by the name of GAULS” (Maclean, 27-28).

[@cal2127]

could the trojans have been phrygian? iirc greek and phrygian are in the same language family and the phrygians inhabited that area in the iron age.

[@kallimsp]

Not probable. The assumption is that they moved into Anatolia during the bronze age collapse. Leaving behind Brugian remnants in Central Macedonia and Epirus.

[@Thebattler86]

No. The Trojans fought a war against Phrygia.

[@kallimsp]

@@Thebattler86 since you say so, we will have to take your word, good argument,,👍

[@WalterVTurner]

Interesting material, and I managed to listen to the end, but that unvarying intonation was mighty wearing. Oh, for a live reader. This reader seems at least to have been trained in standard pronunciation. While I’m oh-ing, oh for more time having been spent in this lifetime on things like this.

[@azwris]

The last hypothesis is the most possible of them all, although the Tyrsenians were supposed to be the first Pelasgic inhabitants of Thessaly. Who wrote that they were from Lydia? I've never read of this. Also Etruscans weren't indigenous. Their pottery design has exceptional similarities to the ones that's been found in mainland Greece of the same era. This cannot be just a coincidence. I don't support the Indo-European theory in general. Nice video as always!

[@lorencrama7463]

TROJET TONA OUR LAND IN ALBANIAN 🇦🇱

[@Thebattler86]

The Picts were Albanian

[@codingstyle9480]

Trojan language was not certainly an Indo-European language such as Greek nor Hittite. Probably related to Sumerian.

[@alisarikaya6327]

part 3) The Origin of the Turks and Troy" The reasons for this change of view are complex: On the one hand, the development of the concept of freedom in Europe with the Enlightenment, and on the other hand, the distance between the Ottoman Empire and the deterioration of the order gradually widened. However, at the same time, to the extent that the Ottoman state, which fascinated Renaissance intellectuals with its power, lost its power, the admiration of the West turned into disdain and even hatred. As a result, Renaissance intellectuals trying to get rid of religious schemes did not only look at Turks in terms of Christianity and Islam. Going back to our example, "The Life of Muhammad", which forms the introduction to the first edition of Sansovino's Historia Universale, is omitted in the third edition, after being re-added in the fourth edition, it disappears in the next editions. Thus, instead of marginalizing the Turks within the framework of an insurmountable opposition, the way of examining them by introducing them into the historical and ideological patterns of the West was preferred. Therefore, the Roman model, which represents absolutism together with military and administrative power, was easily adapted to the Ottoman state. Geopolitics also played an important role in this, because the Ottoman was the product of the same geography, especially the East Roman Empire. However, by doing this, the West reaches the point of renouncing the Roman heritage, which it regards as the origin of its culture and history, especially in the Renaissance period, and risks losing this legacy to the most important adversary of the period, the Turks. In the Enlightenment period, starting from the second half of the 17th century, when the state and power model based on military and purely political power, whose most important representative was Machiavelli, gradually began to give place to the concepts of freedom and human rights, the concept expressing the Ottoman order was admired. He left the Roman "as a force, to the Eastern despotism, which would be presented as a counter-model by thinkers like Montesquieu." As can be seen, what has happened since that day is not that the "West" "recognizes" Turks or "fails to recognize them", but its interpretation according to the models it has produced. As for the Turks, before their time of Westernization, they could have remained unaware or at least indifferent to these debates and comments. However, since the process of Westernization starting from Tanzimat until today expresses the integration with the Western way of thinking in the final analysis, it also brings the necessity of adapting to the way the West perceives Turks. Prof. Dr. Stefanos Yerasimos Social History Journal, Issue 118, October 2003 Notes: 1 “Chronica per extensum descripta”, published by E. Pastorello Rerum italicarum scriptores, Bologna, 1932, c. XII. 2 Andanças e viajes de Pero Tafur por diversas partes del mundo avidos, Madrid, 1874, p. 168. 3 History of Mehmed the Conqueror by Kritovoulos, trans. Charles T. Riggs, Princeton, 1934, p. 181-182. 4 The manuscript was purchased by the French ambassador Girardin in 1687 and is today in the French National Library; see. Julian Raby, "Mehmed the Conqueror's Greek Scriptorium", Dumbarton Oaks Papers, 37/1983, p. 20-21. 5 La Cronica dell'anno 1400 all'anno 1500, Florence, 1984, p. 127-128. 6 Discorsi sulla prima Deca di Tito Livio, first edition 1531. The quote is from the French edition (La Pl’iade, 1974, p. 511). 7 Eugenio Alberi, Le relazioni degli ambasciatori veneti al Senate durante il secolo decimosesto, III. serial, Florence, 1840, c. 1 second

[@CharlesOffdensen]

There were some Thraicians living in the area, but they came later. The language must have been Phrygian or Greek. That prince Alaksandu clearly has either a Greek or Phrygian name. In Luwian, there can't be a name like Alaksandu. It should have started with Par- from the Luwian verb parāi - to defend, to protect.

[@hamm0155]

Do philologists agree that Alexander was a Greek name first and not adopted from whatever ‘aleksandu’ was in the Trojan language?

[@koukariotis]

Greek name adopted by the Trojans, or the Greeks gave the name to someone (Paris)

[@spiroskarikis9433]

Alexander is as greek a name as it can get. Because is a combination of Greek words. When you listen to names like Alexander,Agamemnon , Phillipos , Aristophanes,Protagoras etc you can be sure we are talking about greek names as they are combinations of greek words.

[@wankawanka3053]

Alexander has always been a greek name ,it has plenty of onomastic evidence in greece and it also appears as a nickname for hera in Mycenaean b tablets

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

You tell us 😃 👇🏻 Alexandros-Defender of Man Lysandros-Unleasher of Man Menandros-The Vigor of Man Kassandros-The Shining Man Euandros-The Good Man Leandros-The Lion-like Man Nikandros-The Victory of Man Filandros-The Friend of Man Kleandros-The Glory of Man Amynandros-Defender of Man Anaxandros-The Ruler of Man Archandros-The Lord of Man Alkandros-The Strength of Man Aristandros-The Best of Man Igisandros-The Leader of Man Timandros-The Honorable Man Thersandros-The Bold Man Kratandros-The Strong Man

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@spiroskarikis9433The simple Eye-Test answers these questions easily. They are easy to find online as well 👇🏻 Alexandros-Defender of Man Lysandros-Unleasher of Man Menandros-The Vigor of Man Kassandros-The Shining Man Euandros-The Good Man Leandros-The Lion-like Man Nikandros-The Victory of Man Filandros-The Friend of Man Kleandros-The Glory of Man Amynandros-Defender of Man Anaxandros-The Ruler of Man Archandros-The Lord of Man Alkandros-The Strength of Man Aristandros-The Best of Man Igisandros-The Leader of Man Timandros-The Honorable Man Thersandros-The Bold Man Kratandros-The Strong Man

[@kaloarepo288]

There was a book published a little over a decade ago that argued that the whole saga of the Trojan War and the Iliad occurred not in the world of the Aegean Sea but in the world of the eastern Baltic. Some took the thesis seriously!

[@kylestephens4133]

Apaliunas is Apulu in Etruscan

[@nezperce2767]

Linguistics o instead of u or oo duble o ( phonetics) Aristotle's acousma.

[@alisarikaya6327]

Western linguists called the language "Old Latin" between the 3rd century BC and 75 BC; "Classical Latin", the language between 75 BC and the 3rd century AD, "Late Latin", the language between the 3rd and 6th centuries "Medieval Latin", the language between the 6th and 15th centuries, 15th to 18th century language "Renaissance Latin" and the language after the 18th century as "Contemporary Latin". However, this classification is wrong. Relics from "Old Latin" for Western linguists It is an "incomprehensible" language. There is no sharp distinction between Old Latin and Classical Latin. The written language used by educated elites by scaling (standardizing) is called "Classical Latin" today. The language that is today called "Vulgar Latin" is also colloquial language. Therefore, the "vulgar" language spoken until the 3rd century is the evolution process of an Early Turkic language, Türük (etruscans/tü-rü-şük-çe-nin), and has changed considerably from its original structure in this process. The language scaled by the educated elite is the torluk (official) Roman language, and it has now transformed from Early Turkish and has become a separate language from Old Turkish. From the language called "vulgar Latin" Latin languages were formed. Old Turkish, which evolved from Early Turkish, also underwent its own evolution and changed considerably from its original structure. This change is seen in the inscription reading I made below. Thus, Turkish and Latin languages became separate languages. But their origins are one. After the division of the Roman Empire into East and West in 395, the Western Roman Empire collapsed in 476. Thus, starting from the 6th century AD, the Romance language began to evolve into what is now called "Latin". Pages from Turkolog/linguist Arif Cengiz Erman's book Real History of Anatolia A BUİLD UP İN TURKİSH OF THİS TEXT İS AVALİABLE AND A ENGLİSH TRANSLATION OF İT in the copy below Batılı dilbilimciler MÖ 3. yüzyıl ile MÖ 75 yılları arasındaki dili "Eski Latince"; MÖ 75 ile MS 3. yüzyıl arasındaki dili "Klasik Latince", 3. yüzyıl ile 6. yüzyıl arasındaki dili "Geç Latince", 6. yüzyıl ile 15. yüzyıl arasındaki dili "Ortaçağ Latincesi", 15. yüzyıl ile 18. yüzyıl arasındaki dili "Rönesans Latincesi" ve 18. yüzyıldan sonraki dili de "Çağdaş Latince" olarak adlandırmaktadır. Ancak bu kabillandırma (sınıflandırma) yanlıştır. "Eski Latinceden" kalan yazılar Batılı dilbilimciler için "anlaşılmayan" bir dildir. Eski Latince ile Klasik Latince arasında ise keskin bir ayrım yoktur. Eğitimli seçkinlerin ölçekleştirerek (standartlaştırarak) kullandığı yazı dili, bugün "Klasik Latince" olarak adlandırılıyor. Bugün "Kaba Latince" olarak adlandırılan dil de, günlük konuşma diliydi. Dolayısıyla 3. yüzyıla kadar konuşulan "kaba" dil, bir Erken Türk dili olan Türüşükçenin evrim sürecidir ve bu süreç içinde özgün yapısından oldukça değişmiştir. Eğitimli seçkinlerin ölçekleştirdiği dil ise torluk (resmî) dil olan Romak dilidir ve artık Erken Türçeden dönüşerek Eski Türkçe ile birbirinden ayrı bir dil durumuna gelmiştir. "Kaba Latince" olarak adlandırılan dilden, günümüzdeki Latin dilleri oluştu. Erken Türkçeden evrilen Eski Türkçe de kendi evrimini geçirerek özgün yapısından oldukça değişti. Bu değişim, aşağıda yaptığım yazıt okumasında

[@kilipaki87oritahiti]

There where 4 different Greek tribes/civilizations if you will, and each one was pushed further east by the later. So Trojans where in fact «Greek». «Ionians is the name of one of the four main ancient tribes or phyla, which were connected to each other through the use of the Ionian dialect which belonged to the Greek language. The other three were the Achaeans, the Dorians and the Aeolians. The Ionians lived partly on the peninsula of Attica, in the city-state of Athens, and partly they lived on several of the islands in the Greek archipelago and along the west coast of Asia Minor. They were known collectively as Greeks. According to semi-historical Greek legends, Ionia was colonized in the 6th century BC. of refugees from the Greek mainland who were driven out by Doric invasion in the heroic age and left Attica as the only European outpost of the Ionian people. The Athenians of the Attica peninsula were the only Ionians on the Greek mainland. The middle part of the Greek-speaking west coast of Asia Minor was called "Ionian" and the inhabitants outshined the other Asia Minor Greeks, the more southern Dorians and the northern Aeolians, to the extent that the other peoples of Asia Minor used the term "Ionians" (Assyrian "yamani ») about all Greeks. This is still the case to some extent. Greece and Greek are in Armenian "Hunastan" and "huyn", in Arabic Yūnān and "yūnāniyy" and in Hebrew "Yāwān" and "yəwānī" (and in that Bible called "javan").»

[@gentjanhasani5955]

Aleksander means is born like a dream in albanian. Find what it means in greek?

[@RespuestasCatolicasTRAD]

Obviously they spoke Latin I mean just read the Aeneid

[@llanitedave]

And they always spoke in rhyming couplets!

[@wankawanka3053]

they also met harpies , go read the aeneid :)

[@Thebattler86]

Nonsense

[@jimanast3593]

ALL who were speaking greek were Greeks and those who were not speaking greek were Barbarians (ie: not understandable). Homer, about the meetings of Acheans & Trojans describes EVERYTHING (ie: people present, their ancestors, the presents given etc) but no translators, because there weren't any! Trojians and Achaeans were both speaking greek. They also had the same gods, a key fact for the ancient greek nation. Archaeological finds show strong relations to mainland and island Greece; the same culture (one stamp from the East show commercial affairs). So, Trojans were Greeks, Homer describes the 1st greek civil war!

[@MrChintaro]

BC.

[@Ed-mc1sv]

Trojans where the Romans called them later,Dardani di Iliri, they were Dardanian of the Illyrians , DNA results today still the same people exist in Kosovo and Albania and Macedonia, Montenegro and Dalmatia Today they’re called Albanians in the past they were in different provinces of ancient Illyria the only way to get the truth in history is with local people DNA test that will give you the honest truth

[@SorinVertigo-dn8rj]

Nope was hitite mix mittani turco mongol indo iranic etruscan grouop frigians later scityans was celto iberyan gypsy khazar and hispanic etruscan frigians with long heats în head forme of rome read history of hitite wich was nagas

[@SorinVertigo-dn8rj]

Etruscan tongue sanskrit phonecians semit aramaic dialect wroten from right to left semit etrusci hitite frigians gopekly tepe all have heats în head scityans

[@SorinVertigo-dn8rj]

Greek îs they brothers of hitite mittani indo greek greco bactryan and scityans ateas grouop bosforan

[@pellazgbejleri1658]

Trojanët flasin Shqip Les Troyens parlent Albanais

[@beepboop204]

😉

[@patricktilton5377]

David Rohl, in his 2007 book THE LORDS OF AVARIS, concludes that the 10-year Trojan War happened c. 874-to-864 BCE (in his 'New Chronology')), not c. 1194-to-1184 BCE as the standard 'Old Chronology' has it. Whether he's right or not, I'm not a specialist/expert on the topic to say, but I like his books and, as a layman, think he may well be onto something, even if he's only partly right. Rohl's re-dating of the major events in question, of course, calls into question the language(s) that would have probably been spoken by Trojans and Danaans.

[@staffanlinnaeus1460]

Deeming from this video only, I would say that only the Greek hypothesis is supported by substantial arguments: a king named Alexander and the god Apollo mentioned in Hittite sources.

[@gregdandoulakis6667]

GREEKS THEY WERE , TALKING THE SAME LANGUAGE AND HAVING THE SAME GODS.

[@-BlackMamba-]

And of Aoelian Origin *

[@gregorynixon2945]

Based on Homer? Not reliable for 1200 BCE Bronze Age Collapse.

[@Thebattler86]

They did not speak Greek

[@-BlackMamba-]

@Thebattler86 they did after all they were Aeolians idiot , and also in Ancient Greece there were more than 1 kind greek languages it's country since its Place had its own DIALECT , just later on Athens gained huge Influence and that's how Attic Greeks expanded as a language and became more global and layer known as "Koine greek" but this doesn't mean that it was the only greek language it was just the most "popular" dialect bcs of their Influence, in the same way that English are the global language right now

[@Thebattler86]

@@-BlackMamba- They fucking weren't. If they were Greeks how was there a Trojan war against Greece?🤡

[@maganikos3788]

the trojan names are greek the relegion is greek , the culture is greek , the trojan war is civil war greeks vs greeks

[@KalFulsom]

Most likely a mix of Greek and eastern languages from their location.

[@tibormocsar9195]

I couldn't stand this intonation beyond 4 minutes.

[@gentjanhasani5955]

Troje in albanian means land for building purpose. And arë land for planting. In italian and english arare means to work rhe field like in albanian.

[@ibrahimluma465]

Trojanet e kan folur gjuhen e vjeter te Dardaneve te, te cilen gjuhe sot e flasin shqiptaret e Kosoves, e me vone eshte perhapur edhe tek shqiptaret e Shqiperise!

[@whyukraine]

I heard somewhere they had like 50 different words for condom.

[@Student_union99]

Troy is in Shkoder , Albania . today is called Rozafa Castle .

[@Thebattler86]

The language of Troy was Welsh. The ancient Britons came from Troy after the Trojan war under the leadership of Brutus of Troy. The Welsh language is the Trojan language. That's why the island is called Britain, and it's people Britons, they were named after Brutus. The old name for the city of London was "Troia Nova", which means "New Troy", which was later bastardised to "Trinovantum" up until Lludd ap Beli changed it's name to London after himself. There was a big dispute over this at the time. That is also why the tribe around London at the time of the Roman invasion were called "Trinovantes". Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett did a tonne of research and literature on the history of the Britons and the Trojan war.

[@ds-on4sm]

Very interesting, Nova is a Bulgarian word, we have cities like this, Nova Zagora for example and we have the Trojan mountains and the city of Trojan. I had no idea about London. You see, your claim is kind of relevant because some Bulgarians called Thracians back then, went to Britain and Ireland and were mistaken for Celts. Like the Belgae, who established Winchester. Venta Bulgarum. The Trojans were Thracians.

[@koukariotis]

Trojans were Greeks

[@elijahdjinn2304]

Were they ?

[@kingafar816]

No they weren't you hotep

[@williamskalaios6444]

​@kingafar816 says who? Your ancient historians??

[@nezperce2767]

​@@kingafar816try a few names. Hector's son and wife

[@kotsaris87]

It's not settled. The name Alaksandu is a very strong indication for trojan Greek-ness, but it's not definite