That ONE Trans Joke

[@boxingelfis1499]

10:29 I feel as though this is mis-contexualised. The implication seems more like Terry's character found no issue with the fact that he had been crushing on a guy, but instead it is only the fact that Marlon Wayans' character is not white that breaks his heart.

[@godzeven]

Exactly, it's a subversion of the "she's a man" joke

[@AzafTazarden]

Yeah, but that's the breaking of expectation that goes on. The audience is expected to think he would be bothered by the woman being a man in disguise, only to be surprised with racism instead. It's still the same joke, it was just told slightly different this time

[@pax2293]

Doesn't having a different punchline literally make it a different joke tho?

[@boxingelfis1499]

@@AzafTazarden Thinking about it.... you're right. Not sure if I'm interpreting this well enough but it seems the subtext is the joke being Terry Crews' character being okay with dating any gender.

[@9-VoltGaming]

​@AzafTazarden Is not the same joke, breaking our expectations of what the joke usually, is a bait and switch You expect a joke at the expense of trans people but it just ends up him being racist (and the character is black so is not even offensive)

[@twistythetiny]

I actually think the way "It's Always Sunny" handled the topic is really well done and positive if you actually read between the lines. Even based on the way you summarized it, the trans woman isn't even played off as a joke and she even finds happiness with someone else later on.

[@dharrison6504]

Honestly, and his conversation about the nails and her penis was actually very reasonable to me, not in the sense that she has any obligation to have a sex change operation or to be ashamed of it, but just that he was venting frustration, which is totally valid. People have genital preferences and that’s perfectly normal and ok! If he was just pressuring her into getting an operetstion, especially if she didn’t want one, then that’s definitely not ok, and the relationship probably isn’t going to work out, which is again, ok, they’re just not compatible

[@fey0217]

yeah ur right bc the joke is on the gang. carmen is just living her life. but it's clear THEY'RE the ones being weird about it. and the last time we see her she's holding her baby in her arms with her SO.

[@Greendawn-di3dl]

@@fey0217 the joke is always on the gang.

[@alecwoodruffmusic]

Agreed, especially considering her appearances happened between like 15 and 20 years ago, so especially considering the time that seems like a pretty progressive angle to write her from.

[@Greendawn-di3dl]

@@twistythetiny to be fair Carmen is also ridiculously hot. That's kind of the joke I think too; that mac regardless shouldn't be ashamed of it because that's the decent human thing to do, but secondarily she's super cute.

[@9-VoltGaming]

The "You're not white" one is kinda funny actually, is a nice bait and switch and the character doesnt came out as transphobic at the end

[@KiwiHobie]

The character still comes out as racist though. His fixation on white women was what made him feel so betrayed, and whiteness on women is usually linked to femininity when compared to woc (and especially black women!!). Racism and transphobia walk hand in hand. Even though the joke was kinda funny because the pun was different from what we expected, I still feel like it fits on the troupe. (English is not my first language, sorry if I couldn’t express myself properly.)

[@9-VoltGaming]

@KiwiHobie He is black tho, he is allowed to make a joke like that, is not offensive You can make jokes about your own kind

[@EduardoLaviano]

Yes, very interesting joke because it puts the audience on the spot as the ones being transphobic and thinking he would be mad for his crush being a boy.

[@drnanard9605]

Exactly. We realize he has always known, he knew the woman in question was trans or a crossdresser, and that didn't bother him at all.

[@drnanard9605]

​@@KiwiHobieI mean, not necessarily. It doesn't mean he doesn't like black women, just that he thought she was white. He's also allowed to have preference.

[@maxgraivier2024]

10:17 I think the joke is supposed to be that he didn’t actually care that Marcus wasn’t a real woman, but instead was hurt that he wasn’t white. It’s a subversion of the audience’s expectations.

[@alexkunce2006]

That's a solid joke. I don't know about the rest of the movie, but the subversion itself is clever!

[@Theemackxo]

@@alexkunce2006he harps on the fact that she’s yt (yt chocolate, vanilla, etc.) so i always thot of it as he’s upset he’s not yt not a woman but he does sleep w 1 of the yt boys and screams but at the same time I think he’d still pick a yt girl OR boy over a black women Ik a lot of guys like that. Them damn dls

[@maem7462]

@@alexkunce2006 The rest of the movie has some good jokes and some more questionable jokes and moments. The subversion does work well partly bc earlier in the movie him and another dude get very intoxicated and had slept together. In the case of Latrell the dude who’s in the clip he was trying to slip a drug into the drink of the main character to get sex but the drinks got switched bc it was obvious something was in there.

[@TheRockerX]

True. The video highlights a pretty important issue, but Tronn was kinda stretching some of the examples to fit the video's narrative.

[@99hank97]

I always found that bit hilarious 😂

[@VivianCanRead]

6:00 when I was younger, I thought the joke was "oh she has a deep voice, and so she's older, and that's why he's grossed out." Now I am a trans woman, and rewatching that clip, I honestly for a moment, thought the same thing 💀

[@robbieboydudeguy]

LMAOSHJDHSD, I’m a trans guy and I thought the same way, then I thought it was about how the guys felt threatened in their masculinity just cause she happens to be better at “guy” things

[@rhymerlegend2717]

This clip was so funny!

[@Bongo-sb1gs]

yeah she doesnt even seem obviously trans shes just hot

[@tabbyy_yy]

you ain't a woman

[@Boxingtons2033]

I remember that joke as a kid and I thought the punchline was that after he kissed her, her gum got in his mouth and he says "I wasn't chewing gum"

[@VultureClone]

To be fair, Mac from It's always Sunny is, like all the characters in that show, supposed to be a bad person. He (at the time) was also a closeted gay man. So it definitely made sense for his character to act that way. And the trans character was a good person and ended up happy.

[@emekao500]

Yeah they did a good job making the joke not “omg trans person so gross” but making the joke more “Mac is ashamed bc something is wrong with him not the trans woman”

[@greentaigo2552]

This is all true but the writers openly admitted that it was initially never the plan to make Mac a closeted gay person with internalized homophobia, that was something that became more intentional as the show went on

[@Pwilly07]

​@@greentaigo2552yea he wasn't always meant to be closeted gay like they said, but his homophobia from being a Catholic is established in the first season. so it still works that his character acts the way he does with the trans character.

[@hai2a]

@@greentaigo2552 Right! That fact recontextualizes this joke in retrospect, but that doesn't change the fact the original intention was making fun of the idea of "woman with a penis". Regardless of what changes were made to the characters in the future.

[@aretaros]

​@@greentaigo2552Was about to mention it as well, but honestly it was a great decision to do that and greatly improved the whole storyline regarding that

[@craigwolfe249]

I do feel like white chicks, he doesn't actually care that they are trans, evidenced by the fact he was upset they ain't white. While a comedy I think it does a awesome job tackling issues of race, the male gaze, shit women have to deal with etc

[@Chillwave6]

yeah. like when i watched the movie months before i watched this video, and seeing the story's start, i was imagining there to be some phobic moments but in the end, the movie never really did do that. its a comedy with a lot of other stuff, its of course mostly a black guy acting a white chick and trying to blend in as the original twins. so yeah, movie doesn't really do bad work on that part.

[@Mitsuoxx]

Yessss, Lattrel wasn't transphobic, only racist lmao it's a awesome punchline of the character

[@thirdwheel9938]

God i love white chicks it's so funny

[@rxwi956]

They aren't trans. They are men in drag. Being trans is about who you know yourself to be regardless of what clothing or make up you happen to be or not be wearing.

[@evanmak7837]

But they were not Trans to begin with in White Chicks...they were merely two straight guys cross crossdressing as white mean girls....

[@ofanichan]

I am a trans woman who doesn't have a visible adam's apple. None of the assigned male at birth in our family has one. So besides from being fairly lucky, I just wanted to point out that an adams apple isn't what's a big tell or not. Some people also have it removed surgericly

[@resonancetides7196]

You're not a real woman, deal with it.

[@graysonjones149]

Yeah exactly, I'm nonbinary but i was assigned female at birth and I've had a noticeable adams apple since early teenagehood. Hearing people use it as a foolproof tell just sounds silly to me

[@rxjhiphop]

you're a man😂

[@ItSpiatz]

@@sneakydeechey7210 I don't think anybody is talking about tricking someone? That's an entirely different topic...

[@Ginonth]

@@sneakydeechey7210 What even is this reply?

[@laurav5767]

"Some like it hot" handled the real gender reveal perfectly, and it was made in 1959!

[@paperlanterns0775]

"Well, nobody's perfect"

[@laurav5767]

@paperlanterns0775 Most reasonable reaction in movie History💯

[@k6eomz]

i came to say this! honestly the perfect way to present it

[@laurav5767]

@k6eomz i know right?!

[@solus8685]

All I could think of lol I literally watched that movie less than 2 hours ago lmaoo

[@ofanichan]

Watching a 90s sitcom without seeing transphobic jokes challenge: Impossible

[@joemps]

Even more modern shows like How i met your mother suffers from it… in several episodes

[@Whatever94-i4u]

*Transphobic, homophobic, racist... It was the whole package.

[@dannyphantom3090]

@joemps it's just a joke they make fun of everybody.

[@Whatever94-i4u]

@@joemps I wouldn't consider HIMYM a "modern" show... Though it's not a 90s show (it's a 2000s show through and through even if it ended in the early half of the 2010s, which is, let's be real, not any better than a 90s in this respect), it was very clearly made by people who... Let's just say very clearly grew up and socialized during the 80s/90s. And it comes from someone who was born in 94 and grew up in that era, so I'm not some raging GenZer who has no idea what they're talking about.

[@sneakydeechey7210]

@@joemps*thrives

[@Buggedouternie]

it sucks so much that with trans rep its almost always demonizing trans women and ignoring trans men, there are only a few shows/movies i can think with good trans representation where the characters are at least somewhat important to the plot

[@dannyphantom3090]

@@Buggedouternie why should they be important to the plot just because of their identity

[@Pixaurora]

​@@dannyphantom3090 you should question why cis or straight people should be relevant to the plot as well by that logic

[@maskedsinger8337]

​@@dannyphantom3090Well considering when you introduce a character, you'd think they be important to the plot. That's kind of how story structure work. Also how obsessed are you with trans people that you came back to reply to more comments, a day later, whining about how sensitive they are?

[@Buggedouternie]

@dannyphantom3090 not just because of their identity, but because I want to be represented by a fleshed out character rather than someone who shows up for an episode or a joke

[@DTFauxClassic]

​@@dannyphantom3090 This just raises the question: Can they not be important to the plot just because of their identity? Cause I think the other person's point is that they would just like more trans characters to have character presence beyond the butt of an anti-trans joke, or the most outer circle of a cast of characters. It's not too much to ask, just like every other group who's felt underrepresented (if not misrepresented) outside of the "norm" at one time in the past.

[@letranger4461]

Very concise breakdown. That Family Guy episode stuck in my brain for years bc that vomiting sequence was a full minute long. It seemed way too mean, and I didn’t even understand what being trans was. Especially bc of the joke about how he thought she was supposed to go around and inform the neighborhood like she’s on a registry. Minor nitpick: I’m cis, so take with a grain of salt. I believe “sex-change” is considered outdated and inaccurate. I’ve seen trans people use top or bottom surgery or gender affirming surgery as an umbrella term.

[@QuinnOsgood-c9v]

Yeah it's more commonly called gender affirming surgery these days. Thanks though for pointing that out 💜🏳️‍⚧️💜

[@Screeno1993]

That family guy scene is fucking horrible. I always hated it even when i was very closeted. As you said, it just feels mean. That's because it is.

[@Harlyynn]

Especially after the words of the creator of the show, Seth McFarlane, about this episode, something like: "I put the puke scene cuz is how a straight man would act in that situation, is like when a gay man sees a vagina" totally disgusting and transphobic

[@tmmaster6904]

generally the clinical term is sex reassignment surgery (SRS), but I at least personally never use any term or the sort mostly because it isn't descriptive enough, people like to talk about "the surgery" but like, there are so many different surgeries that could fall under that, bottom/top surgery are more linguistically useful terms that I do say on occasion as shorthand but I still usually just default to the more technical terms

[@greentaigo2552]

Family Guy is known for having 'lol its funny because the scene goes on for too long' humor. Other than being vile in this context, it's also the most blatant lazy writing of all time

[@snakexpert552]

I remember in the Good Luck Charlie episode where PJ was looking through the yearbook for a prom date he finds someone and says "Shes pretty cute" and then Teddy goes "Thats a dude" and laugh track. Boy Meets World has thr episode where Jack and Eric were in drag specifically to hide and embarrass someone. Even kids shows do it

[@11MissingPhoenix]

Damn, i always thought the "thats a dude" joke meant they were trans male 😞

[@Singleredpikmi]

The boy meets world episode they both dressed up as a girl to try and get a better understanding of the difficulties and what they have to go through. I thought it was a sweet episode did we watch the same thing??? How do you find negativity in that.

[@lxvitates]

​@Singleredpikmi that's a different episode. the one they're talking about has 2 OTHER characters in drag because there was a guy attempting to beat them up and they seduced and blackmailed him with a photo of him almost kissing one of them. imo it's not transphobic as much as it is homophobic tbh

[@MARI-lm7iq]

​@@Singleredpikmi there are actually 2 episodes in boy meets world where that happens, the one that Shawn dresses up as a girl (the one you're remembering) and another one in later seasons with Eric and Jack

[@Chilliconkanye]

Because it's hilarious

[@lssjgaming1599]

Im a trans woman and i absolutely hate that this is so common in media since it really helps push people to hate us for no reason. It doesnt help that we are for some reason the cureent scapegoat in society, its just pain everywhere i look

[@bfbuilders]

No one hates you my guy, I get thats hard for you to see since you prolly experience a lot of it but just know that the haters don’t know you nor do they care, do be a victim my man

[@jonnysmith5998]

Tbf, all these examples are a decade ago or older. There’s a long way to go but there’s not a chance in Hell you’d see anything like this on the TV anymore.

[@bfbuilders]

@@jonnysmith5998unfortunately

[@elmsigreen]

What did you think of the Always Sunny storyline?

[@dharrison6504]

I know, I have 0 tolerance for these jokes, it’s never been funny, and most of the time it’s just blatantly discriminatory

[@snakexpert552]

The best example of this trope imo is the Boy Meets World episode where Shawn dresses as a woman to get their perspective. Its not perfect but it didnt feel like it was to shame or make fun of crossdressing or trans women. It was a great lesson for a kids show

[@Singleredpikmi]

Exactly!!! just read a comment right above yours that was talking about that episode and they completely misunderstood it and were offended by it which really annoys me because I thought it was a sweet episode

[@jasperpretzle]

@@Singleredpikmi the comment is literally by the same person lmao

[@eon6274]

@@jasperpretzle "Play both sides and you never lose" :^)

[@Singleredpikmi]

@@jasperpretzle I didn't even notice that! Wtf 🤣

[@ryranwho]

Omg ok mystery solved! There were two different episodes of Boy Meets World with the boys dressing as girls/women. Shawn and Cory dress up in season 4 “Chick Like Me”. Jack and Eric dress up in season 7 “What A Drag”. Lol the two episodes dealt with the subject matter very differently from what I remember but it’s been a couple years! Some vague memories and google helped me out. I’m hoping this wasn’t already cleared up in another thread ahaha! Cheers!

[@floofykxtty]

As a trans woman I’m so happy that this kinda stuff doesn’t really happen as often in modern media. It really just pushes people to hate us for no reason out of not being able to understand us. Also being a scapegoat doesn’t really help either.

[@wwozanewmusical]

some of these were not for no reason, the ace one was she's the villain and she was the one who killed the player in it, and the others from what i got out of it was from lack of consent and knowledge of the women being men and not biological women, just cause the friends are horrible doesn't mean that the trans women needs to not tell the guy they are about to sleep with and deflower, any better.

[@driley5004]

u know what? I'm just going to assume that you're young and I'm going to give you a little advice. Life is hard. Life is offensive, and the sooner you know that and get over it, the better. u think other things aren't made fun of like mental illnesses, disabilities, women, etc? People don't hate you out of just pure boredom....its the annoyance that we see it everywhere. The less than 1% of the population squawks & screams about how everything's offensive and everyone hates them when in reality that's not it. I could not care less what you do with ur life- knock urself out, but it's the fact that u people get offended over everything. It's the fact that people can't even go around and make jokes anymore, and the more people scream and yell about it the more people start to hate it. So essentially getting butt hurt about everything is making it worse because then people are just going to hate it even more. Ur not going to live in a bubble and have a safety net ur whole life, so get used to it. I did.

[@Cieln0va]

@@driley5004 If seeing people fighting for their rights makes you hate them, it's not the community's fault. We're here and you will never hear the end of it, so instead of getting mad at all of us for "being in your face", just get over it. Life's offensive after all :3

[@izak5356]

The classic "maybe people wouldn't be so bigoted towards you if they stopped complaining about not having rights so much" huh? Sad. @@Cieln0va

[@nickrustyson8124]

And as a cis dude but a major fan of comedy, I'm glad too because these jokes were always the hackist jokes, like first view pages in a joke book hack

[@ajzeg01]

The film Some Like It Hot subverted this trope long before it was even a trope. The film follows two cross-dressing fugitives and at the end of the film one of the main characters reveals he’s actually a man to the guy who’s in love with him and he simply replies, “Nobody’s perfect”.

[@solus8685]

Ikr, I literally just watched that movie today lmao

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

Actually Shakespeare loved the gender swap, though he would have women dress as men and it always had taste.

[@WillaRoberts-y7z]

I swear y'all, I'm so tired of this joke lol it really is the *one*

[@dimitriwarchief301]

“Oh b b but we aren’t” some loser …. That loser being past me. I hate past me

[@galaxychill9578]

??

[@nikdante5844]

Ah but the old jokes are the best 😉

[@Voytash89]

It's OK to laugh at trans people. Laughter is good for you! 😉

[@EvienneJ-y6j]

That "you're not white" joke was actually pretty funny.

[@Seila60815]

That whole movie is very funny, it's a shame that most americans doesn't seem to like it, here in Brazil everyone loves White chicks.

[@Ludraman_]

The creators of it's always sunny said that they regret making transphobic jokes on the show

[@dannyphantom3090]

Nobody is scared of them it's just jokes they don't like

[@crypt5129]

?

[@HarmonelEllisS.]

​​@@dannyphantom3090Are you dumb? phobia also means hatred or fearing to accept

[@VultureClone]

The thing is, it makes sense for the shitty characters in IASIP to act that way though. They're bad people, so of course they'd be douchebags in regard to most things. Even when they pretend to have morals they botch it in the end lol

[@availanila]

​@@dannyphantom3090 the suffix -phobic doesn't just mean fear but disgust, spite, intolerance etc... It's used both for irrational fear, well founded sensible fear and bigotry.

[@inayah115]

As a fem looking cus woman, I have an Adams apple. This is because of a huge voice change from being a squeaky child to an adult sounding woman (my voice is still high pitched too, it was just a drastic difference)

[@solus8685]

I'm also a cis woman with an Adam's apple, but I'm masc so I actually like it a lot lmao

[@freedompancakes301]

In defense of Always Sunny, most of the comedy when Carmen is involved is the selfish/amoral behavior or insensitivity of the main characters. For instance Mac accidentally punches Carmen in the face later that episode, and when two guys are upset that he punched a woman, he brought up that she’s trans to imply it’s not as bad, and they still try to beat up for committing an alleged hate crime. In Mac’s A Serial Killer, Mac is ashamed of his secret relationship with Carmen, and him hiding her is rightly portrayed as hurtful and immature, and Carmen knows her worth and dumps him. And finally in Mac Fights Gay Marriage, the rest of the Gang accepts Carmen marrying a man as a straight relationship, but Mac selectively calls it a gay marriage as an excuse to religiously condemn it just because he’s jealous. I still think the earlier two episodes with Carmen where they focus the camera on her member for comedy is outdated, but overall for a 2000’s comedy, Always Sunny was ahead of its time.

[@sneakydeechey7210]

The characters can be based at times but that doesn’t change the fact that It is gay.

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

There is always the aspect of Mac being genuinely happy with Carmen but his loyalty to his toxic friends and his stupidity makes him act like that, and the gang being miserable because of their own stupidity is a big aspect of It's always sunny

[@GigiGeez]

Was I the only one who felt really bad for that girl in Atlanta? 😔 She was obviously going through a rough time, then some asshole outs her in the most obvious way possible, and her ex starts getting aggressive in a place she won't be protected... The whole scene felt uncomfortable, I couldn't even tell if it was supposed to be comedic.

[@robbieboydudeguy]

It was supposed to be funny for awful people

[@dearratboy]

yeah and then there's the episode that equates trans people to 'transracial' :/

[@JolyneTPog]

wait, which movie?

[@Fionnazone]

it seems to be talking about the weird complicated mess of sociopolitical issues surrounding imprisonment. the prison is depicted as a very obviously bigoted system. this scene reads to me as “look at how horrible this place is” and not “haha trans”

[@skypie3000]

it was purposefully uncomfortable. it felt like a statement on transphobia within male and black communities. as a trans woman i saw it as humanizing. and ultimately real. she was a person with real emotions being berated by a man blinded by ignorance. and it's something the viewer recognizes upon watching it.

[@vinylcomets]

I was working on a short film for my class and two other members of the group were in charge of the writing. They tried to write one of those jokes into the short and like... no i'm not including that.

[@sneakydeechey7210]

I want you to post that and show your absolute comedic genius

[@R_AM02]

This shit hurts. It hurts to be treated that way

[@rhymerlegend2717]

Grow up

[@QuinnOsgood-c9v]

💜🏳️‍⚧️💜

[@R_AM02]

@QuinnOsgood-c9v thank

[@tabbyy_yy]

womp womp

[@Χέιζελ]

@@tabbyy_yy do you think it’s cool to not care about the feelings of others? Genuine question because I don’t get why you would say this.

[@BlueBeetle1939]

The way it grinds the otherwise entertaining Ace Venture Pet Detective movie to an absolute halt for absolutely no reason is wild. Also shout out to einhorn for getting promoted all the way to police lieutenant in the early 90s as a trans woman thats genuinely impressive and totally uncommented on for all the hacking and gagging they must have thought was hilarious at the time

[@dimitriwarchief301]

Yeah ._.

[@rhymerlegend2717]

He wasn’t a real trans woman he was in a disguise

[@disasterwarning9997]

​@@rhymerlegend2717that's even worse then. Oh god 💀

[@vavarietyamari7342]

Yeaaaa so this one is complicated for me. Because on one hand it is veeeeerry outdated and somewhat hacky. But on the other hand, I always saw that the comedy was supposed to be that Finkle wanted to get revenge sooo bad that he became a woman, some how became lieutenant, and screwed every dude in the precinct for some reason. Buuuuut I feel like the movie is also implying that since finkle is crazy that makes his transition into a woman crazy as well soooooo yea😬😬

[@disasterwarning9997]

@@vavarietyamari7342 this movie is ALMOST ahead of it's time with that aspect of the plot, but the writers aren't smart enough to know a much better way to deal with that and instead opt for dirt cheap laughs which will thrill white straight cis frat boys who love to burp in their girlfriends' faces

[@DarkwoodASMR]

Another thing that i think is glossed over in the film industry and even by commentators of trans representation in media is how trans women or men who dress as women are usually demonized or are doing it to decieve someone for the perverse reasons a.k.a. seen as deviants; however, when a woman dresses as a man in movies its usually for a noble and brave cause and are seen as heroic for doing so (examples: She's the Man, technically Mulan but the story came before the movie, and Just One of the Guys)

[@dogplex]

The Ace Ventura ending always feels so excruciatingly cruel. i had always heard good things about the movie before i found out about this scene, and it's dizzying to think that this was ever seen as okay, much less funny.

[@Gmaing._.]

Forgive me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure that the antagonist was a man impersonating a woman who went missing as a means of getting away with murder, I don’t think the character themself was trans, but I may be wrong

[@Gmaing._.]

Although, I do feel that the reaction of ace and the police were a little unnecessarily drawn out and overused, while comedic insinuating they all had sex with her, is still probably taken a little too far, now that I look at it

[@zanicanbanachek1068]

The sequel is much better

[@defineroyalty]

I don't see what the problem is

[@zanicanbanachek1068]

@@defineroyalty that's also a problem

[@Zooker25]

Once I understood what this joke meant, I started seeing it everywhere and it makes me really uncomfortable. I'm not trans myself but I have trans friends I would protect with my life.

[@BushSage]

I think the first clip of the lorax wasn't transphobic. It wasn't funny, it was most likely sexist, but clearly that was not a "Wha its a man?" Joke but instead its a "That woman is so ugly I thought she was a man" joke. The other incidents in the video actually portrayed Trans women and encountering them for comedic effect to laugh at their expense.

[@maem7462]

That is true but both jokes are kinda cut from the same cloth in a sense

[@SophieRoseLive]

the venn diagram of transphobia and misogyny is a single circle

[@QuinnOsgood-c9v]

The venn diagram of transphobia and sexism is pretty much a perfect circle. But the joke was definitely transphobic.

[@crackaddict1692]

Man, this generation is truly lost. No wonder most men are turning conservatives in America, yall are getting mad at a simple, children's joke lol.

[@troy511]

its still come back to transphobia.

[@valuerie]

tysm. im in the first year of my transition (nothing medical yet) and this has had a LASTING impact on our cultures

[@AlexReynard]

I know I'm just a random internet nobody, but please do not transition medically. There are few safeguards, the industry lies about side effects, and I have heard many stories about patients who have complications, ad their doctors ghost them. The plastic surgery industry as a whole is a greedy, exploitative system that preys on people's insecurities for profit. They do not treat trans people any better than they treat anyone else.

[@Erixandros]

What about the "well, nobody's perfect" in "Some like it hot"? It's interesting the reaction of the man in a movie that's so old. Friends also has the moment that Chandler kissed a guy because he was really beautiful. He was getting mocked for kissing a guy, I believe.

[@iamoftennotentirelywrong]

The last line of Some Like It Hot was supposed to be 'I know', but the studio made them change it. I rewatched it recently, and the Jack Lemon's reaction as the credits roll and he assesses the situation is really something to watch.

[@sergiodelrioreyes7655]

I also thought of that one when watching this

[@resonancetides7196]

Cry about it

[@Suited_Nat]

To be honest, some old media can be really ahead of its time 😂

[@evanmak7837]

@Suited_Nat Some like it hot was way ahead of its time.

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

The always sunny character is actually a pretty positive example of a trans character, but this is a good video overall

[@vilmamartinez2873]

I enjoyed watching this video as it put this trope in more perspective. I knew the point of it was to find the trans woman gross, but never realized it was often shown as a punishment. Stuff like this is what scares me about dating once I transition, even if I’m not transitioning into a woman. The fear of what if they don’t like me anymore once they found out or them even becoming angry towards me at the revelation. Also if anyone’s interested on a take of these type of stuff from the perpestive of a trans person, I’d suggest lily Simpson! She’s a great commentary KZbinr that goes through trans rep in different media.

[@maem7462]

I’ve seen a few of Lilly Simpsons videos especially on the trans topics in media. I’ve enjoyed her videos.

[@lenabach3047]

All I can tell you is: if someone gets angry at you for THAT, they weren't for you anyways. Drop them. Sure, it's hard to find out a person's true colours like that, but just know that the problem isn't you in this case. If a person reacts so negatively to that information, that says absolutely nothing about you and everything about them.

[@RaeCrazyGaming]

I have an ongoing joke with my friends which is that every single 90s/2000s show will have a transphobic joke in it somewhere and we all go omg whenever we find it in said 90/2000s show. I've yet to find a show where this hasn't happened yet. It's just lazy and unfunny.

[@joegatto8169]

No it’s well written and funny. You’re just very sensitive.

[@Jackattk14]

​@@joegatto8169 perhaps ur immature

[@MxNSTR]

@@joegatto8169 "omg I had a good time with someone but they have a DICK?? unacceptable." Is that whats funny about it? I may be wrong so feel free to give examples

[@AIRWOLF-l6g]

@MxNSTR example of entrapment and being distanced and taking advantage of someone despite their known sexuality. Just except the fact that straight men don't want to get with trans girls (there's bigger fish in the sea)

[@sapiescent]

@@AIRWOLF-l6g if they don't wanna get with trans girls how do they end up in bed with them at all

[@TheLoserface45]

The moment from Atlanta at 2:02 gets a pass for me too because that was the point of the moment. It wasn’t played for laughs. It was to show how the trans woman felt in the situation that they find themself in constantly.

[@micahm2177]

I LOVE Your channel so much honestly. This is sooo necessary cos these "jokes" that punch down have caused irreversible damage to impressionable boys that are already obsessed with incel culture and toxic masculinity.

[@peachlockcove]

There’s no such thing as toxic masculinity, Only toxic people.

[@firetube8288]

​@@peachlockcove"men dont cry"

[@emekao500]

Fr I love videos like these that really gives an open and honest opportunity to look at how we acted in the past. Not to shame anyone but just to learn and grow❤❤

[@Shoxic666]

Imagine being this deluded. Tho you already don't know what a woman is, so makes sense I suppose...

[@moozapan246]

Y'know, as someone who was born afab and always had a very prominent adam's apple, I always hated the whole 'women don't have adam's apples' thing. It made me so self conscious of mine.

[@qwest9227]

it really is a horrible one-two, it's targeting not only trans people but also cis people who even slightly deviate from the norm. truly a classic of old-age television

[@solus8685]

8:50 yeah, I'm a cis woman with a pretty "bony" neck and an Adam's apple. I just have generally larger than average bones, so I have a couple "male" features

[@wowsometal]

me too! adam’s apple and a strong jaw… but also great cheekbones :D a male coworker actually started transvestigating me once bc i wasn’t interested. LMAO.

[@ryanmpfeiffer]

Say what you will about White Chicks, but I don't really think it's fair to lump it in with the rest of these examples.

[@outbackshaqYT]

I've blocked out so many iterations of this dumb ass joke. I'll rewatch an old movie I used to like and find another reason why it took me till 25 to accept myself

[@maem7462]

This is some of the biggest harm that can happen bc of those jokes. Ppl not accepting themselves and having a more miserable life bc of that. The fact that a lot of these don’t make being trans a valid thing makes it harder for others to accept.

[@dannyphantom3090]

@@outbackshaqYT boo hoo

[@Shoxic666]

Accepting yourself by becoming something totally different...? Riiight.

[@Screeno1993]

Yeah same. Just came out last year and I'm 31 now and only just having my first appointment for consultation about hrt this year. Internalised Transphobia is a horrible thing.

[@thatmomentwhenriley9472]

​@@Screeno1993 congratulations and good luck on the rest of your journey :)

[@griffinkelly8694]

I liked the Family Guy episode where Brian starts dating Ida. They seemed to really like each other. They should've kept that going for a while. Not sure why the writers had it go for just one episode.

[@ReeceThomas-bz3gw]

Yeah it was a shame the writers started to just focus on Quagmire and Brian's feud.

[@hayleynoellebroders8247]

Because that's the joke. They repeated literally the exact same plot line in the Cleveland show, IIRC. It always only needs to be one episode because the writers think the nuances of disclosure are shallow and can be summed up in comedy with a sick punchline.

[@KingAzxoll9]

Because its a rarely serialized show and 98% of the time the whole point is to bring things back to the status quo at the end of the episode. Its why all of Brian's relationships (minus only 1 or 2 over the show's run) last only one episode. Gotta keep that sitcom energy going, can't get too serialized now, can we?

[@disasterwarning9997]

What's interesting is that the episode revisiting the Brian/Ida dynamic was written by the same person who wrote Quagmire's Dad, where Ida was introduced & the very awful vomiting scene happened because of Ida's existence in the first place. So that was pretty jarring, but also very frustrating because Family Guy really cannot pin down a good arc for more than three episodes, which sucks even more because this would have been a great opportunity for redemption...and not whatever tf Trans-Fat was

[@AshaDiscoSushi]

Great Topic. Im a TransWoman🏳️‍⚧️ & i love the way It's Always Sunny did their trans/lgbt jokes/character's. ... Years before my transition, Because I Grew Up Loving Ace Ventura as a kid, when i first kissed a boy, i had Jim Carrey's reaction because it was so ingrained in me that Shame was "Supposed To Be My Reaction", rather than an enjoyable sexual experience. That Drake & Josh one is so problematic because nobody should feel entitled enough to sexually accost another person like that. God i hate family guy so much, especially Brian Griffin🤮🤢whatta Puke!

[@dannyphantom3090]

Boo hoo

[@urielc34]

@@dannyphantom3090 Bro ain't no way the person with a DANNY PHANTOM profile is saying that

[@sergiodelrioreyes7655]

It's a show that picks on every topic imaginable. Brian is a piece of shit and it's totally in character that he would react that way, the show states clearly that he's a douchebag

[@emekao500]

@@dannyphantom3090 What are you boo hooing about? This wasn’t even a post looking for sympathy.

[@Suited_Nat]

@@dannyphantom3090??? Why are you being so rude to people?? I thought you had a pleasant conversation with another commenter. Stop targeting trans women for commenting.

[@hai2a]

The fact that the top comments in this video are "Erm, Actually..."s about how some of these weren't *really* transphobic, instead of openly engaging with this being an issue, is honestly kinda disappointing. That may be true or not, but that's not the point of this video.

[@HomerSlimeMachine]

I agree, it's annoying that people are doing that because it's clear they got upset in someway that a show or movie they liked was called out, and instead of saying "Huh was that joke really necessary and could have it been done in a different way that didn't make trans women the butt of the joke for not being, as one commenter put it "real women". Also it annoys me because they don't say why it was well done or not disrespectful, they just say it isn't and that's it. This video deserved more actual conversation on the topic than a bunch of "erm actually..."

[@blueberrimuffin6682]

I mean, I think countering examples used in the video is totally fair to do. If you're gonna use an example of "look, see, the show is transphobic" then it makes sense that people more familiar with the source material will be able to go "no, it isn't, because..." Not to say they're all doing this, especially in cases where the entire crux of the content is based around "haha they're not a woman!" But the top comment, about Always Sunny, I think is very clear and respectful about why it isn't transphobic - it's a show where the entire main crew are assholes who ruin their own and others' lives, nearly all bigoted. The joke isn't "laugh at the trans woman," she's played completely straight and is even allowed to be happy. Mac, meanwhile is the butt of the joke.

[@pinhead7422]

Well it's not like they don't care, it's just that they're defending some of their favorite shows from being called transphobic when they disagree. Completely fair action to take imo, and does engage with the issue because it teaches people that not all iterations of the joke are neccessarily transphobic, and should be judged on a joke-to-joke basis. As should all jokes tbh, lots of ppl take things much too seriously nowadays.

[@hai2a]

@@pinhead7422 The thing is, I don't really think the video was calling the joke "transphobic" completely, it was just saying it could be read in a certain way that Could be disrespectful. "People take things much too seriously nowadays" is a two way street-- because why instead of trying to reflect on an observation made by the video, do people immediately jump at the defense? I would say that's also taking things much too seriously. It's immediately taking offense to someone criticizing something instead of trying to understand *why* they think that way.

[@hai2a]

​@@blueberrimuffin6682 KZbin keeps deleting my reply to this. So let me try again. I don't really agree with this example! Sure, it's entirely likely the writers wanted to play it straight and have the joke be that the main cast are the assholes, but there's more to it than just the writing. There's also the way shots are composed, and having shots that call attention directly to her crotch is meant to be played for comedy. It's still an example of the "she's a woman with a p**is" joke even if it's not at the woman's expense, so its inclusion in the video is justified. Not to mention the fact that her being allowed to be happy later on in the series wasn't something really planned since her first appearance. I'm not saying the whole show is transphobic, or even that the whole joke is necessarily transphobic. I'm just saying there are certain parts that can be read that way, because TV shows are made by so many people who probably weren't completely on the same mind with the writing room. And we can't really know what the intentions of the writing room were at the time they were first creating this character. I do love It's Always Sunny, I'm not calling to cancel the show over something that wasn't really """that""" transphobic. I'm just saying people should be more critical when viewing these kinds of representations, because it's a slippery slope, rather than immediately jumping at their defense when they don't really know what the people behind them were thinking.

[@plasma8602]

"Women don't have Adam's apples" as they look up to reveal they do actually infact have adam's apples that are just varying in sizes 😭

[@IH-wf4zb]

Not even 3 mins in and this is such a fantastic video. You’ve provided perfect examples to articulate your arguments. I also really appreciate your capacity for nuance. I’ve noticed this trope in comedies/romcoms but could not have parsed through all of it. You strung even the most forgettable or dismissible (subtle) examples together excellently.

[@IH-wf4zb]

Just wanted to add: I agree with your conclusion wholeheartedly. The only reason these scenes can pass as “funny” is bc of the lack of violent “repercussions” for trans women in these scenarios. It’s very interesting how comedy can be analyzed as a selective projection of reality.

[@ossarmyriade8878]

"Will i pass?" Is the holy question asked by trans women.. first, they should not care what people think but they do (lol). second, Will i pass? Implies something very devious.. deceiving people. Please notice that it is ALWAYS after the fact that we end up learning something in all or these jokes.. what we thought was a woman was not.. Trans women are not women, and this Will forever be the joke.

[@Canyon_Lark]

The friends clip is so funny bc like... when all the cis women in the room lift their heads up to show they don't have adam's apples, the one on the right (sorry I haven't watched friends I don't know there names) like clearly does have one imo. Albeit it's relatively on the smaller side, but to say "don't have" is very funny. Also as for other examples - How I Met Your Mother has a pretty bad one. Actually I think it's generally quite transphobic throughout but the one in particular that I remember is where Ted is catastrophizing about all the things that might go wrong if he pursues a relationship with Robin and one of the scenarios in his head is this clip where her voice drops and she says "I was born a man" or something like that. It's been a very long time so I'm probably getting the details wrong. I feel like that one doesn't even fall into either of the sides of the paradigm you've presented here, it's much dumber, I think the entire joke is just "trans people existing is funny". Could be wrong though, curious if you have a take on it.

[@AzafTazarden]

It's funny to think about how much this negative association used to be made in media, yet it's the second that movies and shows start treating trans women like human beings worthy of respect they say it's "pushing a woke agenda". It was the other way around the whole time.

[@Underscorejed]

Honestly i think the always sunny one is pretty realistic and considering the time was very progressive. Carmen wasnt played off as a joke or a punishment. The person who was the butt of everything was Mac with his insecurities and incompetence. Mac is supposed to be a shitty person his punishment wasnt that she was trans but that he liked her and let his insecurities win while she moved on.

[@gurepbell]

as a binb transfem, i hate seeing these jokes cause i can't make myself mad when i'm busy thinking "it shouldve been me" on a serious note, i think the double standard is so stupid it should be pointed out. you're "less of a man" for liking trans women, then trans women are still treated as "still a man", so what the hell's a man to you? lmao. i think people should be allowed to have genital preferences and stuff of the sorts, and in a healthy relationship it's something that's talked about, different strokes and such, but the abrasive "i was lied to, so disgusting!!" reaction everyone used to promote was just, so toxic as disrespectful

[@CapitalistCockroach]

Tf is a binb transfem?

[@GorilkaCore]

“Should be allowed” sounds straight up dystopian and “genitalia preferences” is a conversion therapy term.

[@LucyTheBox]

I do feel like It's Always Sunny was kinda the odd one out here in this analysis. The whole point of It's Always Sunny, is that the main cast are a bunch of weird assholes, while the people they interact with, usually just represent normal everyday people. As such, not only was the trans character part of the "normal everyday people" group, but the negative interactions towards the trans character, came from a person the audience knows is not a good guy.

[@b.p.emma.]

yeah the sunny one actually seemed kinda cool!

[@machu5320]

I think the example of White Chicks is kind of bad because the whole joke is that it's a subversion of expectations, not only does he not care about them not being women, but he actually instead cares about them being black, despite the fact that he himself is black so it's funny. Earlier in the movie though when they get caught by their wives without the full makeup, the wives think it's cheating, but then one of them says "Wait! It's a man!" and the wife responds "you're disgusting". I'm probably not remembering it 100% correctly but I feel like this is a much more obvious and fitting example you could've used

[@YakuiMeido]

Naw in Atlanta it was not a joke. That scene was genuinely sad.

[@juanignaciomontoya8408]

I think the only movie that has done it well its "some like it hot" and its a 50s movie that ends up more progresive and inteligent that the movies after

[@username-mk4qv]

I’ve never seen the Lorax. So I’m not sure if that’s a stupid anti-trans joke, or a stupid misogynistic joke because god forbid if a woman is anything less than a perfect skinny model right? Either way it needs to stop. Also seeing the men be so disgusted at the reveal always makes me think of Jennifer Laude, RIP Thank you for making this video, this topic needs to be discussed much more!

[@Doggybudder]

I find these joke to be super annoying because ill be watching something and then its like a random drive by joke. Its everywhere and in unexpected places and it reminds me how im viewed in the (ignorant) public eye when im just trying to escape through fiction. Like its not that it hurts me or anything but its annoying and lazy writing imo

[@5RRRtarRiver]

“Lola” by The Kinks runs on this premise but they end up together

[@uuhhhahahahahajahahha]

these jokes make me so mad ive never realized 😭

[@99hank97]

I’m bisexual and completely understand where some of these examples can be a bit damaging. In the same way that scenes where two men kissing being displayed as gross and revolting. When I watched those scenes next to my brothers or friends their reaction was to almost look away in discomfort or disgust. This weirdly gave me a bit of a hang up about kissing guys. I’m still not comfortable kissing men in public. But I know that I’m sexually attracted to woman, men and transgender people. However I can also recognise that the worst of these examples that I can think of were all experienced far too young. Watching DVD’s rated 18 when I was like 10 and such.

[@LucyTheBox]

I'd like to request that, in the future, you don't put transgender as a 3rd option, as it comes across as subtly transmisic, as if transgender people can't be men or women. Instead, of "transgender people", you might want to use "non-binary people", as they actually are a different option from men and women.

[@gameplaychannel3129]

13:40 somebody in that audience gets it now

[@emekao500]

That scene from always sunny with Mac dancing was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever witnessed ❤

[@Luke-ep7zk]

6:53 I literally didn’t get the twist when I first watched this with my family, and when it was explained to me I thought “how??”.

[@shadowwhogames6063]

Me neither! They don’t look alike either

[@Luke-ep7zk]

@ Yeah! It just seems contrived, and Jim Carey partially wrote the script.

[@pinhead7422]

It's a silly comedy, and plastic surgery & implants exist. But I get being confused. I was too at first when I first watched it lol

[@Luke-ep7zk]

@@pinhead7422 Also hormone therapy exists.

[@tatianamejiac]

Tronn i love you

[@Tronn9672]

awww thank youuuu

[@sergiodelrioreyes7655]

​@@Tronn9672I'm curious, are you a gay man born in the 90s? Just wondering based on your content

[@tatianamejiac]

@Tronn9672 thanks for speaking up for the trans community

[@Prazca]

and i love you, random citizen!

[@intiorozco5063]

To me this is the ultimate boomer joke

[@thefairestintheland9025]

Yooo I thought the title was "She's THE man" with Amanda Barnes!!! I thought the video was about the movie XD

[@Ohnoitsjadaa]

Same 😅

[@g.r.2287]

not this type of joke, but I liked how dating a trans woman was handled in baby reindeer. Donny is secretive about his relationship with a trans woman as he is somewhat embarassed of her, and the show makes it clear to show him as being in the wrong and Teri deserving better

[@karlbergman5678]

"threat to the masculine ideal". 14:00 Can you explain stuff like this more? I think I agree overall, but it's frustrating seeing such vague statements being thrown in as an argument. I mean, if I were in such a situation I just wouldn't be interested, it's not that deep. If I had something more" intimate" I would be ashamed, but only because my preference would have been disrespected by the partner. Also, it's unclear in most of these cases if it's a trans woman or just a man dressed as a woman. Either way, I'd like to know who my partner is and was in a relationship. And I don't think that's wrong.

[@honourwhitehill5918]

Well, a lot of men tend to see being gay as effeminate/weak/shameful. And they also see trans women as men. So when they realize they have romantic/sexual desires towards a trans woman, they see themselves being tricked to do a gay act. And just as I said before, they see this as effeminate, therefore a threat to the masculine ideal. But I do agree that partners should be open to each other about things such as gender/sexual orientation before being more intimate. This is better for both parties as people who would be repulsed can avoid negative emotions, and the trans person can avoid a potentially bigoted person by getting that out of the way early.

[@otats1235]

He explains it throughout the video, in these films its not just the fact that trans women aren’t their preference, but the strong aversion to them, and how trans women are used as punishments to their masculinity. Like in the beginning when he mentions stu-what was once a sense of guilt became a strong feeling of disgust once he found out he slept with a trans women. These men’s attitudes change, often to strong *violent* reactions. He’s saying there shouldnt be such a strong disdain towards trans women because they truly aren’t threatening our s*xuality. Therefore, they are not a “threat to the masculine ideal”

[@basedbattledroid3507]

It was funny though when I was like 2 years into transitioning and two of my dudebro cis friends from university wanted to catch up and they were amazingly supportive they just said it was good to see me actually happy it made my day, anyway it got late and the TV was on so Hangover 2 was just kinda playing, they were sitting there chilling and laughing for the first half Then when that scene came on this awkward silence just filled the room, I think they genuinely forgot about that part of the movie, I said "it's fine I've seen it you don't have to flick over", the silence continued then when it was over one of them tried to fill the silence with "ah I get it, the joke was he doesn't wanna cheat on his fiance!" Like I know bro was trying to make it less awkward but it's cute that he tried to recontextualise it for himself without the transphobia

[@mickeyruts]

The best trans joke in Ace Ventura was, as a kid, I erroneously declared, "Einhorn really IS a man! The credits say 'Sean Young'!" And my family laughed at me.

[@skillet9141]

I don’t blame you. Who the hell names their daughter “Sean”? Lol.

[@meegsoteegs]

Another Tronn video, yay!!🎉 also crazy timing for this topic, I was just telling my Mom about how transphobic Jim Carrey is yesterday

[@debbieganger]

Ace Ventura's ending was awful, but I don't think Jim himself is like that (unless there's something that he said that I don't know about).

[@bfbuilders]

Jim Carrey still awesome

[@meegsoteegs]

Supposedly Carrey was involved in rewriting parts of the script around the "twist" reveal. And all the stuff he did after finding out was 100% improved- all Jim Carrey, not a writer telling him what he should do to show his disgust

[@meegsoteegs]

@@debbieganger you're right tho, I was using brief language to try and comment about something much more complicated than "X is transphobic" haha. It really wasn't a concise comment on my part

[@MrKurtykurt]

I’m sure she was SUPER interested!

[@morfy2581]

It genuinely isn't even funny. Like even if it was 100% socially acceptable, the joke itself is rarely funny.

[@bryceanderson2409]

It is objectively pretty funny, regardless of how acceptable society says it is.

[@EchoTheGayOne]

@@bryceanderson2409 there is no "objectively funny", sure some people find it funny but that doesn't mean everyone will.

[@flaawed_human]

Humor is different luckily

[@ikeda-ren]

@@EchoTheGayOne when most people use "objective" incorrectly its supposed to be a hyperbole

[@sapiescent]

@@bryceanderson2409 please explain the joke.

[@BrookeLynnThyRemedy]

Ugh , as a Trans woman …this was super cringy to sit through… ( the research is amazing …just the context -which obviously is not the fault of the narrator) & I think whats most frustrating about this portrayal of how cis men view us in mainstream media is …. I can say as a lived experience…it’s literally the polar opposite. And im going to leave it at that .😊🚶🏾‍♀️🚶🏾‍♀️

[@st4rs4addi]

this is a very well done video! do you think, however, you could put an emetaphobia warning when theres a clip of vomit in the future? I know its more work for you but people - like me - who suffer from emetaphobia would more than appreciate it! ❤❤

[@darby2314]

New word alert! Thank you 😁

[@evairywon]

Boost! I'm also a huge emetophobe

[@boomgirlbucko]

Lets just be happy that Hyun Jo exists. (Aka player 120)

[@euseilamano.-.9530]

Funny how things have changed drastically from the early 2000s to now. I remember that as a child seeing these situations where the character ended up with a trans woman I thought it was disgusting and shameful to be in that situation. Now as an adult I don't feel anything and I don't see any problem for a man to end up relating to these trans characters (many of these trans characters being super attractive by the way lol).

[@Shoxic666]

So basically, society used to not be a fucking open air asylum like nowadays. That explain it?

[@Kerem-mf9oy]

​@@Shoxic666 Ikr?? WE have to live with convicts literally...

[@NoReplyAsset]

also there's nothing wrong with being gay, I don't get why they freak out about being attracted to a "man." it's homophobic

[@rachelvieira397]

I don’t think you get it, there’s obviously nothing wrong with being gay, but like… the guy from the joke is always a straight guy, and stray people are repulsed at the idea of being attracted to someone of their own gender the same way that people are repulsed at the idea of being attracted to someone of their opposite gender, get it?

[@Nixx0912]

And then you rewatch "Some like it hot"...

[@d_alistair-years]

Honestly? Never thought it was a coincidence the “nobody’s perfect” guy was the farthest thing from ideal-Hollywood-leading-man. Baffling people call that moment a win for trans representation, even in jest 🤨

[@darthrevan7242]

I think these kind of "jokes" are meant to imply that trans-women are men pretending to be women (even if they did all the surgeries and everything) and that therefore the men are gay (which is also often times seen as something bad in the context of these shows). Finally I want to add, that those are not my thoughts on these topics. I'm gay myself and I also support trans-people.

[@MxNSTR]

The joke is overused and aged badly.

[@deoxysoverlord8710]

Can't believe people are complaining about this joke.😭😭😭 There's always people complaining about something dumb on KZbin. I'm a gay man. And I think there's nothing wrong with a straight man being disgusted when he finds out the woman he was with was born as a man. Yes it's possible men can still be into it and not mind. But showing people who get disgusted is completely okay. Everyone gets disgusted by something. If you're bi or pansexual, more power to you. But straight men and lesbians are disgusted by the idea of being with a man, and gay men and straight women are disgusted by the idea of being with a woman. There's nothing wrong with showing that on screen. Edit: Also why are we complaining about a trans joke in Family Guy. 😂 A show that makes fun of everyone.

[@honourwhitehill5918]

But the problem is the fact that all of these jokes tend to insunite that trans women are men. It gives the message that trans women are not actually women. And that is the wrong part. Also speaking as a gay man who has never been sexually attracted to women , if I didn't notice that someone I am seeing is trans man I don't see how that is disgusting. Could that cause problems that eventually end the relationship? Perhaps, but it is definitely not something to be disgusted.

[@edwardelric98]

What an awful and self centered opinion. There is nothing disgusting about being trans, and to say it should be normal is extremely disgusting of you and your character

[@ДрагољубЦветић]

@@honourwhitehill5918they are men 😂

[@ДрагољубЦветић]

@@edwardelric98womp womp 😭

[@real_nosferatu]

The Lorax one is an ugly joke, not a trans joke

[@olivia_maimai]

Denying women their female identity because they don't fit into (mostly western) beauty standards and ideas of femininity is deeply rooted in racism, misogyny and - yes - transphobia. See the discourse surrounding athlete Imane Khalif.

[@ofanichan]

Once they make it illegal for trans people to use bathrooms, that will also effect "ugly" women. We are in the same boat here.

[@oreolaw9911]

as a woman who is occasionally described as ugly I can tell you that transphobic jokes and ugly jokes against women have a large crossover

[@rhymerlegend2717]

@@olivia_maimai🙄

[@Suited_Nat]

The Lorax one has crossover. That actually is a huge stereotype, that “trans women are ugly” or that to be perceived as trans you are ugly, type of shit, so yeah, it is transphobic.

[@sharans8580]

The IT Crowd did the same thing with Matt Berry’s character falling in love with a trans woman who tells him she’s trans but he doesn’t pay attention to her and so he ends up getting into a “comical” fight with her. It was horrible. In fact, it ruined the show for me.

[@merbst]

I ❤ Trans folks, for being courageously authentic & honest.

[@Shaunks86]

Doesnt the terry crews one imply that he was in to them being trans?

[@Gian04]

He was just disappointed because he was not white 😂😂

[@ktgame2640]

And most people don't think this is harmful

[@AIRWOLF-l6g]

its not its a joke

[@taco_bat]

​@AIRWOLF-l6g these jokes make hatred and judgment to minorities normal. jokes are alrighr, but they should be kept on being respectful and not harmful the intent of being transphobic is already what makes a joke harmful to begin with. even if a cis dude doesn't think so

[@blueberrimuffin6682]

@@AIRWOLF-l6g Jokes that normalize transphobia in the masses and put down trans women. It's almost like the things we say affect and are reflective of our society. It's almost like making a joke where "the woman is a man" shows biases in the writer

[@qwest9227]

because they dont and will never understand first hand how a trans person suffers transphobia because of jokes like these normalizing this stuff, it's just basic empathy, come on

[@AIRWOLF-l6g]

@@qwest9227 dude, go and watch old comedy shows and every minority is targeted, you are nothing special, blacks and indians have had this years before and continue to do so

[@keaton718]

The joke only works if the trans woman is stealthing the man in the first place.

[@nightclyve2857]

Let me point out a contray example of this exact joke: Crocodile Dundee. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, get a taste for good movies.

[@zeapliean]

this video reminded me SO much of baby reindeers Teri, it surprisingly handles the character and the resentment and shame Donny feels in him when dating her, and there's alot to unpack but above all just watch baby reindeer it is SO much better then you will ever expect.

[@shadykitty7493]

i litearlly started crying when he said "she has hands as big as andre tehgiants" god im fucking worthless and ugly x3

[@tabbyy_yy]

what

[@Bir-doll]

No ma'am, ur beautiful and lovely ❤

[@tabbyy_yy]

@@shadykitty7493 unlucky

[@tabbyy_yy]

@@shadykitty7493 not my problem

[@tabbyy_yy]

@@shadykitty7493 ok

[@danielchurchvara5943]

the episode of IT Crowd called The Speech is a good example! it has a similar message to the It's Always Sunny episode. The creator is now a lot like JK Rowling, but the trans woman is portrayed almost normally lol

[@can_of_spook7980]

As a trans person myself (m to f), I don't tend to mind jokes of this set up, especially from older medias from a time when being trans wasn't an understood thing. I truly believe making a joke out of ignorance is different then making a joke out of malice, and most if not all of these are the former. I recently watched Mrs Doubtfire which one could argue the entire movie is making a joke about "ha man in dress=funny" but since it was Robin Williams who was famous for being an all around wonderful person, and even did alot for the lgbtq+, I don't believe any jokes were made out of malice, thus I don't mind jokes of this type. Just my opinion though

[@spaghettisluttt]

I think there’s also something to be said about how mrs doubtfire is not generally sexualized. And I’m pretty sure at least one character does flirt with her, and I think the vibe of “sexual aggression being punished” applies there

[@qwest9227]

"ignorance" is debatable- even if understanding of trans people and trans science wasn't as advanced back then, it's undeniable these jokes are made at the expense of trans people, or even crossdressers, as a whole. it's the implication some movies/shows make that anyone who is trans or crossdresses is a deciever and does it willingly to hurt people. you can make the argument that a lot of these old shows and movies make fun of everything and everyone, especially something like IASIP, but then you can't make the argument that all those other jokes are also out of ignorance, so there is some malice included even if it's for the purposes of comedy.

[@RandomCommenter955]

Im a trans woman. It's so fucking hard to be a trans woman 😞😞 but i cant change my identity bc well, im just a woman. so im just forced to exist with this bigotry and eternal hate. fucking sucks. it's so normalized too. guess this is how other marginalized groups feel where their hate is normalized as well.

[@khaldub]

The 90s really did run that Crying Game bit into the ground

[@Kind-Regards_Music]

Its a shame, because The Crying Game is such a great film.

[@khaldub]

​@Kind-Regards_Music I realized while watching this video that it'd been a while since I'd even seen the film

[@DanialTarki]

2:10 Holy crap, that’s Donald Glover in the middle.

[@MARKY2428]

As a trans person, the Lorax one is harmless, c'mon now. I laugh at it all the time. It isn't even transphobic it's just an "ugly woman" joke.

[@qwest9227]

its not a funny joke

[@MARKY2428]

@qwest9227 I didn't say it's objectively funny I just said it's not transphobic, let's keep in topic

[@clarenceboddicker9360]

I'm surprised at how little of a mention Ace Ventura got considering how viciously transphobic that movie is. The entire premise is based around it and then it ends with a hate crime and sexual assault played for laughs. Hell, an analysis of that one movie is plenty of material for its own video.

[@magicwitch4559]

I could listen hours to your voice, it's so relaxing!

[@bannnnner]

White Chicks reveal was satirising the transphonic tropes by him reacting to him being not-white.

[@Mspad91939]

I’m a trans woman but sometimes I also see another layer to this kind of joke where it’s like a shitty person believes trans = bad because that’s what shitty people believe. And it make the audience (or at least me) go, “yeah that guy believes that because he’s clearly dumb and misinformed (like he is most of the time) this view point is being played for laughs because of how dumb it is to believe this. Only and idiot like this character could believe something so stupid.” I find a lot, if not most, people don’t also pick that up. I think the web series Jake and Amir does this really well with Amir being sexist or making fun Jake’s appearance while also wearing shit stained pants. He’s a bad guy who does and believes bad/dumb things (not IRL, they are both so sweet and funny!) because only an idiot would take this view. So as much as it may seem like it’s making fun of trans people, or women, or whoever, the real joke is that the kind of person who believes such things is being called an idiot by the writers by having their view embodied by the idiot or morally reprehensible character.

[@sneakydeechey7210]

The trans person is shitty for not disclosing it.

[@BoredInternetCitizen]

The reason most people don't pick up on it is because that is not what the joke is. Take for instance, Hangover 2 - Sure, Stu is a jerk but at the core, he's a good guy. His journey in the movie is of him growing a spine and this incident is supposed to lay a foundation about how he's less of a man in the first act. Also, as for Jake and Amir, don't try to look for logic in that series- its just pure unadulterated chaos and that's what makes it funny. Either character may believe in something completely random in each episode for the sake of making a joke. For eg, the whole "Nose" episode was written to make a single joke of "You're a chicken parmesan!"

[@crackaddict1692]

In reality most men would react like this, that's the joke, it is an uncomfortable situation wouldn't want to find themselves. You think all men are idiots for it? Fair enough

[@vsauce_johnny2516]

My favourite trans joke is how many of them choose lilith

[@DudeOneThat]

im trans, and i honestly dont care about the jokes, i find them hilarious- especially the lorax.