Trope Talk: Ancient Superweapons

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If you think this is just an excuse for me to talk about my favorite Ghibli movies, you're right! What's your favorite ancient superweapon? Argue in the comments!
Scheming Weasel, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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[@Allstar-yl1ek]

I think you missed one scenario: "The ancient super-weapon was made to fight some ancient evil... and we need it because the evil is back." Edit: The fact I still get semi-regular notifications about people replying to this half thought-out comment over a year later is frankly hilarious.

[@dinodude6992]

Halo

[@popaoomowmow5215]

Doom

[@penny-peanut]

BotW

[@kreigguardsman3355]

Mass Effect 3

[@williamoliver146]

The fifth element

[@shibuyaneko5741]

my thought for "if the ancient superweapon is so powerful, why isn't the civilization around anymore?" is "because dumping all your money into military spending does not have a solid through-line to long-term prosperity"

[@MattMorency]

Thankfully IRL there are diminishing returns. Once you can kill everything instantly, you can't go much further. And if multiple civilizations have said superweapon, they have an incentive to be very careful how and when they use it. This has been my essay on how nukes as deterrent drive peace better than people yelling "stop it."

[@handsoaphandsoap]

I also feel like writers don’t consider that a societal downfall might have absolutely nothing to do with the superweapon. Like yeah, they have this cool weapon but maybe a plague wipes out the civilization, or they run out of resources which causes them to die out or be forced to relocate and they can’t bring their shiny weapon. Maybe the society just sort of stops prospering for no particular reason, there are plenty of examples of those in real-world human history where a thriving society just kinda fizzles out, it’s especially common in African history as many African societies were travelers due to the frequently changing climate of Africa so eventually one group of people went off to become a different group of people throughout generations. I think it’d be interesting to see more stories with this trope explore this idea, of the society holding the superweapon dying out completely unrelated to the weapon itself.

[@gd216uy]

@@MattMorency Thats all nice and good until you notice that you live in the real world and people eventually make mistakes so basing the existence of your especies on something that eventually will go wrong is a bad idea.

[@toribiogubert7729]

@@handsoaphandsoap ancient super weapons are a cool trope, but if you think in a more realistic mindset they are really dumb.

[@ricardobautista-garcia8492]

@@toribiogubert7729 What about a somewhat realistic but still fictional superweapon?

[@AgentofChaos315]

Here's an idea: The villain finds out about the ancient superweapon from this lost civilization that was destroyed thousands of years ago, finds it, only for it to be steel swords. Thousands of years ago steel weaponry would've dominated all iron of bronze weapons, bit is useless nowadays.

[@juanfranciscovillarroelthu6876]

There is a theory that IRL this is what the Magic wepons of legend are, Some blacksmits in history could had forge steel wepons But they never pass on the tech, so it was lost until someone else discover it again

[@hanzzel6086]

Or that they where Star Iron. High nickel content iron from meteors wouldn't rust, would be relatively heavy (which would make them difficult to wield or even lift) and in a time of stone/bronze nearly indestructible.

[@OmegaX9]

“ and with this ancient super weapon, my empire will be undefeat…is that a handgun?”

[@ladytalksalot4097]

Can I steal this?

[@TheActualMrLink]

That would actually be exceptional.

[@hedgehog3180]

It's also very important to remember that if it's in an anime then it is 100% meant as an allegory for nuclear weapons.

[@brookedickson4118]

Japan is traumatized.

[@therealgeneralMacArthur]

*AND DON'T YOU FORGET THAT, NARUHITO!*

[@funnyvideoguy3216]

@@brookedickson4118 for very reasonable reasons

[@theshuman100]

@@funnyvideoguy3216 yknow that trope where a bomb goes off and the guy casts a silhoutte on the wall behind him, and the guy is now this black charred thing that coughs and gets carried off by the wind. yea nuclear bombs did that.

[@ZoobiethePopplio]

Even the Eclipse Canon from Sonic X?

[@A_Random_W33b]

Villain: "I will unleash this ancient weapon to destroy people" *ancient weapon activates* Villain: "Oh wait, a minute, I'm people" *surprised pikachu face*

[@AxxLAfriku]

I am the most famous man on YouTub! This is not bragging! This is the truth! The truth will set you free, dear mix

[@LowReedExpert1]

Team Aqua and Magma in a nutshell

[@Omphalite]

This trope can be avoided by having the villain be a madman who is aware of how destructive the weapon is and aims to destroy humanity with it. Bonus points if he thinks destroying humanity is actually a good thing because it ends suffering, the world is better off without them, or both.

[@bumfricker2487]

haha villain your weapon is awesome

[@masterfold8054]

@@Omphalite and that had lots of openings for the villain to be an old friend who lost their family or something similarly important and has turned down the path of ending it all.

[@ThatGreyGentleman]

Legit the “Fantasy world is just a post-apocalyptic version of a Sci-Fi Society” trope is possibly my favorite trope ever

[@glxy_darkshadow149]

This happens in one of my favorite series, sci-fi people use nanotech to tap into the Etheric (use magic) but on earth, no one knows that and just thinks its a thing people can do

[@CarrotSkull]

@@glxy_darkshadow149 What series is that? Sounds interesting .

[@glxy_darkshadow149]

The Kurtherian Gambit by Michael Anderle

[@TheDoctorEMcoviden]

The wheel of time series does that a little bit but it's very subtle.

[@handsoaphandsoap]

And then you have sci-fi society in a post-apocalyptic fantasy world of another sci-fi society in Nier: Automata

[@CivilWarMan]

My favorite twist on the ancient superweapon story is when it turns out that the villain is not seeking it out in order to use it, but to destroy it themselves. Sometimes it's because the villain turns out to actually be a member or descendant of the ancient lost civilization that was destroyed by it, sometimes it's because the heroes were completely misinterpreting the villain's motivations and the villain was not as bad as they thought, and sometimes it's because the villain knows that the superweapon is an even bigger villain and they want to destroy it in order to neutralize any potential rivals to their power.

[@jonathanflanagan1504]

Doesn't this get less-applied to ancient superweapons and more to magical choosy artifacts? A villain knows they'll never be chosen so they set out to destroy the one thing that could potentially give aprotagonist the power needed to stop them?

[@felvahkiir6354]

I read this as "the villain actually sought out the superweapon to destroy themselves" and that's honestly such a cool concept that I've never seen explored before

[@thecatinthehatwithabat9903]

​@felvahkiir6354 would work well for an immortal villian that's became a villian due to grief and wishes to just die

[@CrownofMischief]

I mean, spoilers for the anime Gintama, that's basically the goal of the main villain. He was made immortal by the energy of the planet, so in order to finally die, he taps into the energy to destroy it at the source so his life force is no longer being fed by the planet. Of course that would also cause life die off on earth, so you know, bad thing.

[@Cody-5501]

Or that the heroes wanted to use it in the first place because they thought it would help and didn’t know it was a weapon

[@GooTheMighty]

A pleasant surprise when I read the Lord or the Rings books recently was that Saruman wasn’t a minion of Sauron so much as he intended to supplant him by claiming the Ring for himself, and that was something that Sauron actually feared. Sauron was constantly watching for which character would become a dark lord strong enough to overthrow him, which is why he totally missed the hobbits and never expected anyone to DESTROY the Ring. Neat.

[@CapnShades]

This is still pretty apparent in the films, too. Saruman is clearly a conniving bastard with a hidden agenda, and specifically grooms the Uruk-Hai to serve "none but Saruman."

[@chaotixthefox]

He never expected anyone to destroy the Ring because he thought all craved power.

[@ryanjensen1945]

I think the book also straight-up says that Sauron's greatest fear (at one point in the plot) is that Aragorn might wield the ring against him

[@schwarzerritter5724]

@@chaotixthefox Sauron was actually right, nobody could deliberately destroy the ring.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

@@ryanjensen1945 Yes, Sauron threw his entire reserves against Aragon in the hope he could reclaim the ring before Aragorn had mastered it.

[@hunterkiller1440]

"If the ancient superweapon is so powerful, why is your civilization destroyed?" "It destroyed my ancestors' civilization." "Oh."

[@donsample1002]

The other side had an even more powerful super weapon. Or an equally powerful one, and they went for the Mutually Assured Destruction option

[@henrypaleveda7760]

it could also be that it wasn't to effective, but the civilization that made it was too successful, Rome held large swaths of Europe in its control but didn't have the means to communicate or transport goods far enough fast enough. Picture if the Romans somehow got a stronger foothold in Asia or the Americas, They just couldn't hold on to that much area. A competent civilization that can make a super weapon might win all the time but would still be too limited to exploit the victory.

[@nickmalachai2227]

Socio-political changes, actually. You see, while they had a superweapon that could destroy entire cities, they didn't have an effective enough way to collect and store food and other valuable resources, so when a famine hit and a neighboring empire collapsed (due to a civil war), a lot of the major population centers just fell apart from the lack of resources, and the survivors fled to literally greener pastures. Just once I want a story to say "actually, this giant death laser is really not that helpful when you want to buy a sandwich" or the national superpower equivalent

[@henrypaleveda7760]

@@nickmalachai2227 that is what I was thinking of, super effective super weapon that obeys them so they win wars, but they still have to try and run the nation after they win, eventually the nation collapses because of mismanagement leaving the weapon out in the wind. The weapon even agrees to being sealed away for the promis of a better future, and when they are woken up again, they don't think the current world was worth the sacrifices made. "our descendants squandered this gift, this last second chance"

[@mercury2157]

That question becomes complicated when directed at the Forerunners from Halo

[@shebjess]

Okay, hear me out: Journey to the West is the story of someone unlocking the Ancient Superweapon but instead of it unleashing chaotic ruin, it's forced to do good and help the hero on their journey.

[@CharlieQuartz]

same for Breath of the Wild

[@joserobertosolismerlin5527]

And gamera but thats more evil weapon vs good weapon

[@nunyabisnuth828]

Thay took the unthinkable evil and made it thier buddy

[@sandraveinthal]

Da fucc- I wanted to do that reference

[@blubistheword]

Omg, yes 😂😂😂

[@woodrobin]

Doctor Who has an interesting take on the Ancient Superweapon: one where the ancient civilization (the Timelords of Gallifrey) still exist, but are utterly terrified to actually use the superweapon, even when they're facing extinction if they don't. The reason: The Moment (the superweapon) is not only sentient and able to see the past of the user, it has a conscience. It's not clear if this was a deliberate design decision (like the moral version of a safety lock) or a necessary side-effect of the creation of the weapon. There's something quintessentially post-colonial British about being afraid of a weapon that can pass judgement on your past transgressions if you try to use it.

[@ViirinSoftworks]

Rose Tyler, aka The Big Bad Wolf, aka The Moment, can also judge you for the crimes you've yet to commit. Edit: Thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if The Moment and Sexy get along with each other.

[@simongvs]

DW also the Ancient Superweapon trope as far back as 1971 in “Colony in Space” novelised as DW and the Doomsday Weapon.

[@theendersmirk5851]

There's also definitely a reason why the Doctor, one of the only time lords who gives a crap about anyone outside of Gallifrey and Skaro in the conflict, was the one to essentially say "fuck it, time to use the scary time box". And then, for bonus points: we see why the Moment never gets used. The thing can warp time enough to show the user any possible alternative, no matter how much of a longshot it is, to its use to solve an issue. It reads you like a book. A cruel man, it just observes that it'd kill him for pressing the button, along with all that the man fought for. A kind man, it shows a path to accomplish the same goal without committing an atrocity. It knows you, so it makes sure it will never be used, because it has a conscience that would never survive being actually used.

[@TheFoolish727]

I always that that the moment gained it’s consciousness via it’s immense power

[@ShaunboloshisII]

Cancel culture

[@14Flamefish]

I'm a big fan of the "This ancient civilization was so advanced, that the basic stuff they had is basically considered a superweapon by modern standards." It's a surprisingly rare trope, I think, but it can be part of a surprising piece of environmental storytelling. In my DnD campaign, the "ancient superweapon" is an ancient powerplant whose reactor is a portal to the Realm of Fire; the wards have long since failed, and now it's doing an oopsie, and the players will have to restart the wards, and close the reactor. But that's a long ways away.

[@RattlesnakeRose]

Warhammer 40k has a lot of stuff like this lol Humanity has been in a state of decline for thousands of years and a ton of tech and knowledge has been lost. It’s fun to find out that some of the most powerful armor was originally just ancient civilian mining gear not designed for combat. Or that the largest most powerful tank humanity has to offer was originally an ancient light scouting tank meant for recon instead of combat. The setting is filled with a ton of ancient human tech that is just terrifyingly powerful but everyone has forgotten about it

[@crazypeopleonsunday7864]

I had an idea kind of like that a few years ago where, in a world where humans have died out, ants have become as intelligent as humans (or as close to that as the story requires), and the villain ant believe a lawnmower or a vacuum cleaner is a giant ancient super weapon it can use to conquer the yard of the abandoned suburban house that it considers "the world".

[@Barianus]

Ancient civilization: "Hey, I know. We should make a weapon that can destroy the world. You know, just in case." Ancient civilization, a bit later: "Wait a second, we live there..."

[@scottwerner279]

Oh no we don’t have the technology to destroy our weapon, let’s just seal it in a vault that can be opened via a sudoku puzzle

[@regrettablemuffin9186]

Modern civilisations making so, so many nukes

[@DarkExcalibur42]

The plot of half the episodes of Stargate that deal with the Ancients...

[@Gospel-xm7vd]

@@regrettablemuffin9186 Wait... we're the Ancient Civilization?

[@Barianus]

@@Gospel-xm7vd We are, at least in few stories. Sometimes it is more futuristic take on Earth, but in some cases ancient superweapons are literally nukes. And still nobody seems to spot the warning.

[@bradfordmax8372]

Wait a minute, shiny and awesome, everyone wants it, the audience doesn’t really know what it’s about until it’s revealed, TROPE TALKS ARE MAGUFFINS!

[@brakpak]

except they do fulfill a more specific narrative purpose, of teaching u abt tropes , so u can get better at writing or just go Hmmmmmm a plot plot device

[@timeshark8727]

no, they are SUPERWEAPONS in disguise.

[@bradfordmax8372]

@@brakpak technically they could be anything (fridging, super weapons, smart guy, big guy) but they still fill the same narrative purpose, Teaching! 😜

[@Magus_Union]

Always have been

[@masterfold8054]

cue inception

[@sayvionwashington1939]

Now I'm imagining the villain unleashes the ancient "evil", only for said evil to be just a guy who speaks in a dead language no one understands. And to save face, the villain on the fly says they "understand" what they're saying and accidentally creates a death cult.

[@yakobi8434]

That is actually just Dune bro

[@freedomsflame688]

Stellaris has a really great approach to the sentient superweapon. The nanite plague superweapon that was created attained sentience, causing its creators to panic and try to destroy it. In self-defense, the nanites destroyed their creators then sealed themselves away out of guilt. While in exile, they disguised themselves as their creators so that when an empire inevitably unseals their system they won't be attacked for being sentient machines.

[@kokirij0167]

Meanwhile, if I discovered sentient robots: FRIENDS! :D (I like sentient robots, okay?)

[@dr.cheeze5382]

@@kokirij0167 That seems like a reasonable belief. Unlike organics, sentient machines would be much less prone to unecessary emotion and therefore doing evil.

[@chaotixthefox]

Or they didn't, see Grey Tempest scenario.

[@e-tan3911]

@@dr.cheeze5382 Or they pull an Ultron/Skynet/Cybermen/any other famous robot in fiction and become incredibly dangerous.

[@j.bat.8235]

​@@kokirij0167If not friend, why friend-shaped?

[@Crazyivan777]

Fun reversal of expectations on this one in the book 'Roadmarks' by Zelazny: The BBEG finds the ancient, species-destroying robot and sends it after the protag. The protag sees it and welcomes it, asking how things have been. When BBEG commands robot to kill protag, it admits that it can't: The whole reason its ancient builders left it on earth was because it was hopelessly broken beyond repair, and could no longer destroy even a single individual, much less an entire species.

[@nathank2289]

Iron Giant. The weapon makes friends with a random boy.

[@mediatorraptor3349]

@@nathank2289 yeah

[@petertrudelljr]

Zelazny is sooo underrated. I love the Amber series (first five, thank-you), but Creatures of Light and Darkness is my favourite of his.

[@nevermore7285]

I remember in Ben 10 when there was that whole deal about an ancient sword that the Forever Knights were looking for, and when the big bad finally got it, he held it up and it crumbled to dust because of how ancient it was.

[@Zetamen7]

@@petertrudelljr why does everyone seem to hate the Second Five (Merlin Cycle?) ? I haven't reached them, only starting Guns of Avalon soon

[@DragonKnight90001]

“For thousands of years i lay dormant” “Who disturbs my sl- oh it’s you lot”

[@LeviathanTamer31]

"Explain idiot."

[@1krani]

@@LeviathanTamer31 "3 whole androids, huh?"

[@mochimayne]

@@LeviathanTamer31 "No no NO"

[@gguy3600]

@@1krani "Pretty sure that makes 8. Hm. Never letting the boy live this one down."

[@robertoleary5470]

What’s the reference?

[@curlybrace314]

I admit I am a sucker for the bad guy unleashing an even bigger, badder threat and having to team up with the good guys to take them down.

[@KezanzatheGreat]

Or like Megamind, accidentally creating a threat that forces the villain to become the good guy (even though in Megamind we can kinda see it all along).

[@BirdieImagineeBCH]

Easily one of my top favourite tropes its so good to me

[@george_MF_washington]

ITS BIGGER ITS BADDER

[@yamato9753]

I'd love when a villain gets redeemed that Way. Either by sacrificing themselves or literally joining the good guys. But i hate when those villains get nerfed afterwards. I think making the villain as powerful as the protagonist to begin with would really work well here. You could still make them more powerful then the good guys by giving them cruel methods or just a bigger Team.

[@ignacioperez5479]

​@@yamato9753 im sure you will love both gurren laggan and kill la kill

[@espae_]

I wish more authors did the "this innocent person is themselves the superweapon and they don't know why they were sealed away" trope. 'Cause it's really interesting, leaves the destruction of the civilization as an up in the air question still and gives the character a lot of emotional turmoil. Though sometimes I get mad at the author if the superweapon is a moron when their civilization literally created a superweapon lol. I mean, I can't make nukes though, so maybe I'm being harsh.

[@coolgreenbug7551]

I want to see a version where the ancient super weapon is a person sealed away ala the mummy but the person is John McClain. They have taken down entire civilizations but by being the monkey in the wrench. And when the villain wakes him up the villain is confused until John takes out the villain’s whole plan

[@siphemanana2551]

SPOILERS FOR ATTACK ON TITAN.... Isn't that what Ymir (The Founding Titan) was?

[@ellagage1256]

You should read/watch Trigun if you haven't. Vash is definitely a "Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass" character but it still might be what you're looking for

[@cvernon5256]

@Espae have you heard of the PS1 game The Legend of Dragoon? This is literally how the whole story starts. You don't find out about the whole super weapon situation until much later, but one of the characters is the creator god's reset button.

[@fatalvenomX]

I don’t imagine anyone will read this but you mentioning an innocent super weapon did give me an idea. The classic trope of protagonist stumbles upon a person still in cryo sleep in an abandoned facility or crashed derelict ship from an ancient civilization that fell to sever civil war. The person in cryo has no memories and proceeds to go on adventures with the protagonists. Later it’s discovered they’re a living bomb created to sneak into planet population centers and detonate wiping out a large portion of the planet, or something along those lines. A living virus carrier that’s meant to go around silently spreading a plague to all nearby that takes a long time to become lethal but is undetectable until then or a good old they’re a killer Android works too.

[@Hallows4]

“The villain wants the ancient super weapon because they’re clinging to an idealized version of the past and ignoring the lessons of history due to being blinded by powerlust. The heroes don’t want it because they’re looking towards the future and they understand that some mistakes are too dangerous to be repeated, no matter how appealing they might seem on the surface.” Never thought about the dynamics quite in that context, but it really makes sense.

[@orrorsaness5942]

When was that said? Time?

[@Hallows4]

@@orrorsaness5942 It’s a paraphrase. Think it was towards the end.

[@Mad_Scientist_IRL]

When you put it that way, the villain's motivations sound a lot like fascism: romanticizing a "glorious" past, obsession with military might, and no concern for innocent people getting hurt.

[@arthurmoore9488]

​@@Mad_Scientist_IRL What makes it interesting is when said superweapon can be used for other things, and/or wasn't designed as a weapon at all. I really get annoyed by some of the "no one should have this power" story. Especially in some of the Gibli movies where the thing could have been either taken apart or used for actual good without even touching the superweapon part. We should always be looking forward, but that doesn't mean that we can't learn from or use things from the past. Modern civilization is built on those who came before us after all.

[@orrorsaness5942]

@@Hallows4 I mean which minute? Like for example, 9:30.

[@SuperGoose42]

I like the way Halo did this. The superweapon was planet size, designed to wipe out all life in the galaxy to starve out a hyper intelligent race of space zombies. The weapon worked. It did exactly what it was meant to: kill literally everything, including its creators. And of course the robots left behind repopulated the galaxy with stored DNA But also, the evil aliens who want to use the superweapon don't want ultimate power...they worship the Halo rings and think that activating the rings will make them gods. Very interesting storytelling

[@eoinwalker1814]

Exactly the type of point I wanted to make. I figured this being released at the same time as Infinite was on purpose and I was really surprised when it wasn't referenced. Halo wasn't quite matching to any of the tropes that were being discussed and just made me realise that I can't think of any other ancient superweapon style plot like it. It was built to destroy THEIR OWN civilisation, and the "bad guys" trying to activate think it will cause them to ascend (which could be argued is still a kind of power grab, but also could be argued its because according to their religion, its the good thing to do)

[@a.morphous66]

The Halo rings are unique among fictional superweapons because they end up being used exactly as intended during the story itself, and that’s not painted as a bad thing. In the story of Halo 3, Installation 08 fulfills the rings’ intended purpose almost to the letter, destroying the Flood once and for all (probably). The Halos saved the galaxy twice.

[@tadhgmcinerney8654]

And the thing that makes it work is that it was literally the very, VERY last resort. In the some of the Terminals and in the books its stated that the forerunners spent the last 300 years before firing the rings trying every conceivable option to eradicate the Flood. No strategy, no cure, not even digitising themselves in the Domain was effective against the flood as they would just adapt and keep coming. Not even AI were safe against their corruption. Suicide on a Galactic scale was the only option they had because it was the only option that hadn't been tried yet.

[@th3thatguy631]

@@a.morphous66 there are more halos and all of them contain flood upon it

[@a.morphous66]

@@th3thatguy631 That’s why I said probably. I was specifically talking about the narrative structure of the original trilogy. It might not have totally annihilated all the Flood everywhere, but it destroyed the currently problematic outbreak and resolved the plot.

[@CrownofMischief]

This kinda has me thinking, Captain America: Civil War had an interesting subversion, where the heroes are racing to stop the villain from getting the superweapon(in this case, the supersoldiers in stasis), but the villain destroys them himself and was just using everyone's assumptions as a means of getting the heroes in one place to turn them against each other

[@crazypeopleonsunday7864]

Thor: The Dark World also has a unique take, with the super weapon being stumbled upon by accident and stuck to one of the characters in a harmful way. For the beginning of the movie, the goal isn't to oppose the villain in relation to their goals with the weapon, but to find a cure for the weapon until it turns out that, oh snap, the villain IS still around, too. Guardians of the Galaxy also does something similar where the heroes have the super weapon, but are trying to sell it until they are then trying to keep it away from the villain (who they have known, but not really cared, about up to this point), until they are trying to stop the villain who has acquired it by the climax.

[@farkasmactavish]

10:10 The Dark One of The Wheel of Time is a fantastic example of the "ancient villain sealed away" done well. Each time he's unsealed, it's because so much time has passed that it's literally looped around on itself, and people HAVE forgotten, simply because all the stories about him have been dismissed as myth.

[@TheSixOfSwords]

Wheel of Time is so damn fantastic. So much great foreshadowing and (literally) insane magic and world mechanics. I need to get back to my reread

[@pepi7404]

There's an easy, very human answer to the question: "if they knew the weapon was bad, why did they build it and why didn't they destroy it?" Our naked monkey brains like to keep things, you know, just in case. We might need the thing later. What if we get rid of the weapon and then we desperately need to ... level a city real quick for some reason? We think it's better to have and not need than to need and not have, even in cases where having is demonstrably worse than not having.

[@jasonblalock4429]

I feel like Star Trek: The Wrath Of Khan almost fits this trope, except that we're at the start of the story when the "superweapon" was first invented. The creators thought they were making a good thing, but it turned out to be way too easy to abuse. But then Khan detonates it, the whole Genesis Planet clusterfuck happens, and presumably the Federation was smart enough to not do THAT again.

[@stormie5666]

Those nukes do NOT spark joy

[@coolgreenbug7551]

The ultimate form of leaving old tabs open

[@alexanderlev743]

Its less "level a city real quick" and more "what if someone tries attacking and his way more powerful" . Like aliens, demons ets, ets. People fear the unknown so they always try to have couple of nukes just in case . There is that saying about how demons dont exist but if its start smelling sulfur better prepper holly water anyway

[@Wraithfighter]

There’s also the answer “because thing can have more than one use”. It’s a problem with this trope that tends to frustrate me, honestly. Yeah, the nuclear bomb is a horrible weapon. Nuclear power, however, is incredibly useful (exceedingly low pollution and harm for how much power it puts out) and a serious potential building block towards the future. Luddite nonsense about how “we’re not ready for this power” always, always, always forgets that we tend to only get “ready” for the power by living with it, not hiding from it. It was one of the things that I really liked about Horizon: Zero Dawn. As much as that game made clear that the drone robot army thing was a bad idea... the tech that led to that was also clearly shown to have saved the world in the first place. And the solution to stopping that unstoppable weapon wasn’t luddite in nature, it was technological, building even greater AIs, but more carefully this time, in order to save the world again. The only reason that things went wrong there was because the same 18-int 3-wis dunce who helped let the drone weapons get out of control decided suddenly that luddite nonsense was right and destroyed the key pillar that would help humanity rebuild after the collapse.

[@darienb1127]

Fiction: "This weapon is too dangerous and must be destroyed!" Real life: "You know that bomb that basically let's us drop the sun on command that scarred a country with lingering radioactivity? Yeah, let's make more of them, bit bigger!

[@pathwaystoadventure]

Whoopsies, we ... kinda of just "lost" some of them. Tehe hope that doesn't come back to bite us! That absolutely floored me when I learned we just ... lost track of so many nukes over the years.

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

At their height the USA had about 40,000 nukes and the USSR about 80,000. Today that is down to 1,800 each of which most are inactive at any given time. The average bomb yield is also lower. Both sides also aim their nukes at each others millitary assets and aim to avoid meaningless civvilian slaughter in a worst case scenario. TLDR You're being very unfair to humanity here, we have done a pretty decent job so far of avoiding nuclear war and nobody is cavilierly proposing bigger and bigger bombs as you suggest.

[@festethephule7553]

@@neshirst-ashuach1881 People were literally doing exactly that throughout the Cold War. Only after it ended did things deescalate.

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

@@festethephule7553 The biggest nuke ever built/used was the Tsar Bomba by the USSR in 1961, both the USA and USSR where fully capable of building bigger bombs but chose not too. The Nuclear test ban was in 1963, long before the end of the cold war. This reduced the release of nuclear fallout into the atmosphere from nuclear weapons tests and was signed at the height of the cold war. Also nuclear weapons stockpiles peaked in 1986, several years before the end of the cold war. I'm not trying to argue humanity is perfect by any stretch, but you cannot pretend that humanity ignored the risk of nuclear weapons and just kept building bigger and bigger nukes - we objectively did not do this!

[@festethephule7553]

@@neshirst-ashuach1881 We evidently did until 1961. I'm not trying to argue that humanity is devoid of good (the number of times people disobeyed orders to launch nuclear weapons due to reason and compassion attest to the good in humanity), nor am I trying to argue that we just "ignored" the risk, but we objectively did keep building bigger and bigger nukes until the Tsar Bomba, and kept accumulating more and more afterward. I concede that deescalation was occuring long before the end of the Cold War, but there was still a terrifying escalation.

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

I’m a little surprised you didn’t mention Halo. The eponymous ancient super weapon was an intentionally apocalyptic last resort, that wiped out the eldritch horror enemy and its creators in order to protect all other life in their galaxy.

[@drewlevy9557]

Actually its even more bleak. It doesn’t wipe out the flood, it just stops it from spreading further and starving them out

[@douglasmarshall6661]

Well it tried anyway. 9/10 job I'd say

[@Slender_Man_186]

@@douglasmarshall6661 nah, Halo’s lore prior to 343 Industries taking over did this perfectly, 343 fucked it up by retconning the amazing reveal that Humans are Forerunners. This is long winded, but please bear with me. In Bungie’s Halo, the Forerunners are analogous to the Abrahamic god, humanity worships the Forerunners just like the Covenant does. The Forerunners first encountered the Flood on a planet named G6-17, a reference to Genesis 6:17, the passage where God warns Noah about the flood that’ll wipe out all life on earth. In response, the Forerunners build 7 rings (god’s number) controlled by an Installation known as The Ark, where all species across the galaxy are indexed for later repopulation, I don’t think I need to explain that reference. The Ark is far outside of the Milkyway galaxy, the portal to and from the Ark is located in eastern sub Saharan Africa near the city of Voi, and the rings that stopped the Flood were fired 100,000 years ago, meanwhile modern humans evolved 100,000 years ago in sub Saharan African. Under New Mombasa is another Forerunner structure known as the Data Vault (seen in Halo 3: ODST’s legendary ending), and this is how the Forerunners were able to influence humanity after the rings were fired, how the Forerunner’s history was passed down to humanity and became the Abrahamic religions. The Halo books also confirm that the Forerunners and their sentinels speak Latin, the Covenant was also able to learn Latin due to their access to Forerunner technology. Speaking of the Covenant, because humans are Forerunners (or at least made in the Forerunner’s own image and named their inheritors), this makes the Human Covenant war a crusade against their own gods. Peak dramatic irony.

[@phantomarbiter176]

I was gonna comment this same thing, but you’ve already hit the nail on the head. Props to you

[@necro4258]

@@Slender_Man_186 Great little write up. Wish 343 didn’t have enough writing sins to make a monument out of.

[@ebrannock8139]

So interesting thing about the One Ring. When Sam has it in the book there are a few notable moments of him tapping into its powers and not entirely understanding what he's doing. For instance, while wearing it, one of the things he does notice is that while his vision seems faded and foggy his hearing is immensely more powerful, able to hear conversations like he's standing right next to them even though there is both distance and a giant rock in the way. But what he doesn't notice is how it affects the Orcs around him. Whenever they see him, they start panicking and become absolutely terrified of him. He's not even wearing it, but just holding it in his hand is enough to make him seem like an unstoppable titan to them. The Ring's power comes through it ability to control and manipulate, we frequently see this in action with the main bearers (Frodo, Bilbo and Gollum) and how it corrupts and damages them. When Sam looks over Mordor for the first time he has a vision that is explicitly implied to be from the Ring itself, of him putting it upon his hand and marching through the land, gathering the legions to his own banner and blade and tearing down the Dark Tower, changing the land from a blasted and inhospitable desert to a massive garden tended by the hands of his minions. He realizes that this was not his own desire, and that a single simple garden in the shire is enough for him, beyond that, there was no way he would be able to rally enough to his cause even with the Ring, not with Sauron's will driving the Orcs constantly. But that is the Ring's power, to dominate and control, even if not direct control (which is what went wrong with the dwarf rings much to Sauron's frustration) but it can still be used to influence and corrupt. Sauron never desired to destroy Middle Earth in its entirety like Morgoth did, he wanted absolute dominion over it, so he created a Super Weapon that would let him do that.

[@ACrazedGaming]

One of the reasons why I love shadow of war so much Create another Ring to combat the original

[@AquaticLotus7552]

This also kinda fits into the invisibility it grants as it basically gaslights everyone into thinking the wearer is invisible

[@ciscornBIG]

Not a good way to start a comment. I urge you to drop the "so" thing. It's insufferable.

[@ebrannock8139]

@ciscornBIG so, even though I'm just mentioning an interesting factoid I remembered while reading the book to help add or inspire conversation, it's insufferable. Good to know.

[@sourwitch2340]

​@@ciscornBIGthe "so thing"? how is a basic word in the English language designed to introduce a sentence "a thing"?

[@mayoandbananasandwich6527]

Y’know, it’s odd that every lost ancient civilisation has death lasers, but it’s even more odd that somehow every villain ever is somehow braindead enough to trigger it and destroy themselves

[@azarishere6442]

because while heroes have plot armor, villains have plot iron maidens

[@DarkExcalibur42]

Because villains are all teenagers on the inside and *know* that nothing BAD could ever happen to them. That's what happens to everybody else.

[@cerebrummaximus3762]

Never expected HRE Charles V would talk to me about death lasers o_o

[@leonardorivelorivelo9253]

Villains get dumber in every opportunity possible

[@Barianus]

I bet there is at least one ancient civilization out there that leaves "superweapon" around in their old holdings specifically to act as the doom of villains who'd come looking for one.

[@connorwalters9223]

This is why I love Halo so much. The Halo rings on the surface seem like a very formulaic ancient super weapon trope, but it’s actually subverts the trope in several ways. For example, the series bad guys, The Covenant, aren’t trying to take control of the Halo rings to use as a weapon against humanity. They want to control the rings because they’re basically a cargo cult that worships the technology of the ancient Forerunner civilization and think that activating the rings will start “The Great Journey” (basically The Covenant’s version of The Rapture). Not only that, but the ancient civilization that created the rings wasn’t brought to collapse by creating the weapon. They activated the ring in an act of mass suicide to destroy the horrifying Flood parasite and punish themselves for failing to stop the Flood. And even the trope of the heroes trying to deactivate the weapon is initially subverted, as Master Chief initially tries to ask the AIs Cortana and 343 Guilty Spark how he can use the ring to destroy the Covenant before learning why he can’t. Halo may not be the most complex story, but there’s a lot of really neat stuff in it.

[@TheDyscontinuum]

Describing the Covenant as a cargo cult is brilliant. I will be using that for now on, thank you

[@connorwalters9223]

@@TheDyscontinuum Thanks. I think that Halo is a surprisingly deep story even without the extra lore of the books

[@1krani]

@@connorwalters9223 It was, until the trilogy ended and we started to get... silly. Like, I love Halo 4, but the story about an ancient Forerunner returning and Master Chief being some kind of chosen one figure started to lose me. I didn't even play Halo 5.

[@reapereye2122]

@@1krani I played almost all halo games and 5 just made me mad for what they did to Cortana

[@cakeboss4194]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of Halo when watching this video. Also, the Covenant being a cargo cult is very apt.

[@Rex10111]

I remember that one episode of ben 10 where grandpa max gets all super serious about getting to an ancient aztec super sword before a villain gets to it because it would let the wielder rule the world or something, after getting his head straight about taking care of his two grandkids above the damn sword, the villain gets to the sword first...at which point the sword crumbles to dust in the villain's hands. Grandpa max looks at this for half a second before laughing almost hysterically and goes "that's what happens when your super weapon is 4000 years old!" classic

[@mikek128]

I loved how in Indiana Jones how they just threw it in a warehouse, one of the most holy items the world has ever seen after it kills a bunch of villain dudes with it

[@quartzintherough]

8:24 "This implies that the ancient civilization in question was fairly self-aware, but does beg the question of why they built it in the first place, and then why they didn't destroy it when they realized it was bad" I have grave news to share about a famous superweapon and its continued existence to this day

[@autisticturtle1849]

Knives

[@timothymclean]

It's shocking that so many ancient superweapons are built by a single ancient advanced civilization, as opposed to just one of multiple. It gives a better excuse for your ancient civilization to be investing in superweapons in the first place _and_ makes any relevant themes a lot plainer.

[@therealestn]

Nukes?

[@iskanderwulfstein7731]

Is it Halo?

[@quartzintherough]

@@timothymclean Well, if they created such a powerful weapon to destroy their enemies and got nearly vaporized by the consequences, it's only logical that the actual targets ended up even worse off, but otherwise I get what you mean.

[@GusCraft460]

To answer the question of “if it’s so bad, then why did they make it” I would suggest looking into the Manhattan project that produced the first atomic bombs. The scientists who designed it were horrified when it was first tested. It was way more powerful than they had anticipated. The test explosion destroyed almost all the sensors and equipment set up to record data because they were way too close to the bomb.

[@jasonblalock4429]

Not to mention they'd failed to realize how awful the radiation and fallout would be, as well.

[@SparkSovereign]

There were also a bunch of people who were worried it could ignite the atmosphere but approved the tests anyway, either because they thought the chance of total annihilation was "not that high" or they were simply willing to risk total annihilation in exchange for the potential for ultimate power.

[@CleopatraKing]

we all know the famous quote "Now I am become death, Destroyer of worlds"

[@starmaker75]

Well you never know how destructive something unless you test it

[@mondaysinsanity8193]

@@SparkSovereign the people who thought itd ignite the atmosphere were not the ones who approved it

[@nathandias6771]

I like that in Horizon Zero Dawn we discover that the superweapon wasn’t a weapon at all, kinda the opposite, a seed for life anew

[@baileyjerman5557]

That section is sooooo good! Gives me chills everytime

[@acoustov]

time to make a ancient superweapon villain that upon awakening simply rolls over and says "5 more minutes"

[@GSBarlev]

::incomprehensible Milla Jovovich::

[@sayvionwashington1939]

"Being sealed for multiple millennia is draining. I'm gonna make a sandwich. I'll be back in 20 minutes to vaporize you all!"

[@MaxRavenclaw]

"It's entirely possible that the one ring is just a very effective con artist, promising wealth and power as it hitchhikes its way back to Sauron." AFAIK, that's EXACTLY what it is.

[@absalomdraconis]

The ring doesn't seem to be a con artist, so much as a swindler. It _is_ capable of stepping up to the plate (unlike a con artist), but it'll only do so to further it's own ambitions.

[@wolf2965]

@@absalomdraconis The problem is that to make Sauron's Ring step up to the plate and deliver you would have the ability to dominate other wills that rivals Sauron's own (and that is a tall order, as there are maybe 10 beings left in the Middle-Earth that could even attempt this) - and even that is not enough from it corrupting you in turn. Even if you set out with the best intentions, at the end of that road you end up as Dark Lord/Lady Mk 3 - and Sauron will eventually reform.

[@ChiefLibrarianAhriman]

It is that, but somebody of sufficient 'will' could use it to great effect. This is why Gandalf and Galadriel both refused to take it, as they'd become powerful enough to defeat Sauron but would be corrupted by the ring's power. We never see the ring 'used' for 2 reasons: 1 is that LotR uses a soft magic system so the full power of stuff isn't detailed. 2 is that the only heroes powerful enough to actually use it refuse to do so because it'd make them evil.

[@ChibiGeeBee]

@@wolf2965 It could be that the Ring itself isn't actually doing much- it just lets you use Sauron's power. And in doing so, Sauron is given a way to manipulate and control you. After all, the Ring IS Sauron, in a way.

[@anelbegic2780]

@@ChibiGeeBee That's basically how the story treats the one ring. That power comes at a price though because Sauron is litteraly a higher being who turned to evil and, according to Tolkin, there is no way evil can create, only corrupt. As a result you do get to use Sauron's power but at a great and ever increaing cost everytime you use it. You can see this by the end of LOTR where Froddo looks like he is on deaths door, litteraly, and finally gives into the ring having exhausted his will. Ironically enough, Golum saves him from becoming like another Golum (the fucking irony).

[@jaredgup6537]

"I don't care if its God's own antisonofabitch machine or a giant hula hoop" "We're not gonna let them have it!" - Sgt Johnson

[@cakeboss4194]

The magnificent bastard went out with a bang.

[@thebastard890]

It was, in fact, God's own antisonofabitch machine

[@masterfold8054]

what is this reference? I want to watch it now

[@joshuahadams]

@@masterfold8054 It’s from Halo. Sgt.Maj. Avery Johnson talking about the titular Halo.

[@Xios_Angelis]

What we WILL let them have is a belly full of lead, and a pool of their own blood to drown in! AM I RIGHT MARINES?

[@nikqman181]

A version of how the superweapon got lost that I haven't seen but might be interesting is a succession crisis. The weapon works and helps cement the ancient civilization as a superpower, but a conflict leaves it uncertain who controls the superweapon and the empire tears itself apart as people with competing claims war to take control

[@Wadosan]

It’s strange how common this trope is for being so specific, from Pokémon X and Y’s Ultimate Weapon to Kirby’s Clockwork Stars the Nausicaa’s God Warrior and just about everything in between.

[@azarishere6442]

I love how Red posted a new trope talk just as i ran out of trope talks to rewatch, nice timing

[@NathanWestfieldnoisyace]

Same.

[@scoots291]

Noice

[@aaroncfriedman]

Super tailoring?

[@azarishere6442]

@@aaroncfriedman what

[@ericsteenbergen9470]

So in other words your name is a lie?

[@Leivve]

I remember a kids show from my youth where at one point an "ancient evil" was released, then was immediately beaten by the group mage. Answering the question "If the old magic was so powerful why did people forget it?" Cause the Old Magic was only considered powerful cause there was nothing before, in the show the modern magic was far and away superior to the "old magic."

[@eshbena]

Was that the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon or Thundarr the Barbarian? Because that sounds really familiar and those are the two shows that seem to fit most with that concept.

[@Stray7]

I loved the episode of Buffy where they wake an ancient superdemon that "swords could not harm," only for Buffy to blow it up with a bazooka because weapon tech had advanced so much in the intervening millennia.

[@TanukiPunk]

@@Stray7 I was literally about to mention Buffy!

[@Panory]

That one Final Fantasy dev used the same logic for why the Ultima spell was so weak. In actuality it was a bug, but he was a prideful jerk, and doubled down on the "old magic weak" logic and refused to fix it.

[@andrewmihovich4252]

@@eshbena It doesn't sound like anything in the _Dungeons and Dragons_ cartoon. (Presto was... not at all reliable for that kind of thing.)

[@pengun8683]

Imagine, a story where the HEROS need the ancient super weapon, and the villains are trying to stop them from getting it, because the villains belong to an evil empire, and the good empire the heroes belong to is MASSIVELY underpowered in comparison. The super weapon is going to be used to even the playing field, and it does that purpose perfectly The reason it was sealed away is the technology of the time was so comparatively primitive, that it was “too powerful” for the world of the time. But compared to modern technology, it’s only slightly more advanced.

[@vaclavjebavy5118]

Ace Combat

[@elcucumber2847]

star wars???

[@thepronoob4039]

That's kinda sorta what happens in Turn A Gundam. Basically Moon People who survived the apocalypse is invading with giant robots so the Earthlings (who in the anime had reach around Victorian era Europe in technology and culture) had to dig up ancient machines (that are not only giant robots but also reference to previous seasons which has some grim implications) to fight back. Edit: just remembered that one of the weapons they found also just so happens to be multiple nukes from before the apocalypse. Which surprisingly, was not the source of THE apocalypse.

[@andrewmelnikov292]

Most Protoss tech from Starcraft is like that. Blizzard overuses this trope so much, it borders on lazy writing. (still, it can be fun when used more sparingly)

[@Yal_Rathol]

first half of your comment, tower of god and the thorn of enryu. in tower of god, combat is done by reshaping the air around you into attacks. the thorn of enryu is a tool brought in to the planet-sized tower by a person from the outside world and is able to _forcibly override other people's powers._ basically, if someone tries to throw a fireball at you, you can say "no" and turn off their fireball, no matter who they are or how strong they might be. basically, it's a tool that lets you kill a god, which is the first thing enryu did with it. then he dropped it off for a prophesized child who would enter the tower, claim the thorn and tear apart the totalitarian empire ruling the place with it's power. the entire point of the thorn is that the main character is thousands of years behind the curve. the immortal king of the tower has had millennia to practice and develop his strength, and the main character needs something that will jack him up until it becomes a fair fight. since fate is at play, the MC is the only one who can unleash the full power of the thorn, which is why nobody else who has a piece has used it to become god.

[@DomyTheMad420]

00:03 Nah. World-Anvil is the name given to the ancient super-tool used by the Ancients to create entire galaxies, when used correctly it's a tool of creation. when used badly it can be a tool of mass destruction on a scale we can't even comprehend. brb, gonna write a new campaign.

[@lethalbetty4690]

My favourite version of this is definitely, "that totally innocuous background feature that has been visible in ever shot is the super weapon we've all been looking for this entire time"

[@jasonreed7522]

Like how that really big mountain over there is actually an FTL capable space ship covered in about a millenia worth of dust and plants. And for some reason the thing hasn't even started to rust and powers on with motion detectors, if only we could make something that durable.

[@theblackknight1980]

I know this doesn't count but like... the whole reaper school from Soul Eater being a magic mecha is awesome. We literally see it in every other transition.

[@rmsgrey]

Reminds me of David Weber's Empire from the Ashes - the basic premise is that Earth's moon is no moon - it's fully armed and operational (and in the market for a new crew)...

[@MrJamesb192]

Any ship from David Brins "Startide Rising" mentioned but unseen fleet of moons if it was parked above an inhabited planet rather than a corner of space no one visits.

[@void-creature]

The funny thing about the Halo rings is that they ARE actually the reason the ancient civilization is ded, but ALSO totally worked as intended, disinfecting the galaxy and cleaning away 99.9% of lifeforms...

[@adrianpadilla6265]

I was wondering when anyone would bring up Halo.

[@LilianaKali]

I don't know much about Halo so it's interesting to hear that the rings were basically the hand sanitizer of the universe, got it. Just missing that 0.1%, lol

[@MatthewSmith-sz1yq]

Yep, halo's lore is neat. Although, I do wonder, why did the forerunners sacrifice themselves? There's clearly ways to survive it, or at least preserve their species, so you'd think they would have done so, setting it up as a "in case of flood 2, electric boogaloo" situation. I know the actual reason was that originally, the forerunners were supposed to be ancient humans, which explains why all the forerunner tech is so easily used, and outright welcoming, to humans. Humanity was that "in case of sequel" plan. Then 343 decided to retcon it so that the forerunners are aliens, but they couldn't figure out a way to justify why this hyper-advanced civilization no longer existed. So, they tried to add weird reasons to justify why the forerunners resurrected everyone BUT themselves, why they designed all of their equipment to welcome humans, who were their mortal enemies at the time, and why they referred to Master Chief as "reclaimer" (as in, claims something they once owned).

[@Namelessthe3rd]

​@@LilianaKali The 0.1% was entirely intentional, as technically the 99% weren't even what the ring was trying to kill. The basic gist is the rings were designed to defeat a massive alien parasite that was, at the time, halfway to eating the entire galaxy. While the Halo rings couldn't kill this parasite (called the Flood), the rings could quite easily get rid of every living thing in the galaxy, depriving the Flood of the food and technology it was expanding with. The forerunners grabbed samples of as many living things across the Galaxy as they could find, and stuck them in a handful of protected worlds around the place that would be immune to the ring's firing. Eventually their war against the Flood went south, and we were well on our way to having the entire galaxy nommed, so the Forerunners decided to go out on their terms and fired the rings, wiping out every living thing in the galaxy. A couple thousand years pass, and 'wild' flood dies off. Automated systems on the Shieldworlds start seeding the galaxy, and life starts returning to normal. The catch here is that the Forerunners who made the rings made the classic mistake of storing 'samples' of the Flood here and there, kept in self-sustaining security systems to stop it from escaping. Eventually other aliens (like Humanity and the Covenant, the two main nations of the story) bump into these rings and accidentally let the Flood out, leading to the plot of the first 3 games as the Humans and Covenant are still at eachother's throats, while a small subset of both sides are desperately trying to stop the flood without genociding the entire galaxy again.

[@completelyferrouschemist6776]

@@MatthewSmith-sz1yq The forerunners as ancient aliens who have a hard-on for humans for no reason sucks. Them being ancient humans is still the better choice in the matter.

[@gangofheroes]

My favorite version of this trope is when The Ancient Superweapon is combined with the Chosen One trope where basically The Superweapon can only be used by a specific person, last surviving members of a bloodline or race and etc. where it's only dangerous in the wrong hands or proof that this character is the true ruler, sometimes having to unite a shattered kingdom.

[@mynamemeanshappy3295]

Final fantasy brave exvius?

[@OreoRanger2210]

I'm currently trying to do that!

[@KaiserZERO]

I'm trying this idea as well. Pretty much my protagonist's allies are gonna let her sentient and very angry giant robot storm the fortress where they're keeping her and said superweapon because it's easier letting it go berserk than trying to calm him down

[@vaukest5888]

Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn does this perfectly

[@ezfooly]

Never realized how much "Ancient Superweapons" were a thing in Sonic games, especially sentient superweapons. For examples: Sonic Adventure: Eggman unleashes Chaos, a being that absorbs the Chaos Emeralds to get stronger who used to be a guardian of the chaos emeralds before an attack made him mad with fury and wanting to end the world. Eggman tries controlling it, he fails and Chaos levels an entire city before Sonic puts it at peace as Super Sonic, the end. Sonic Adventure 2: Eggman frees Shadow the Hedgehog and Shadow leads him to a big laser that, when powered up with all the Chaos Emeralds, can destroy the Earth, so Eggman tries using that to threaten the Earth and rule it or something. Except woops, once all the emeralds are there, it's actually rigged to start the space station the laser is on to collide on earth killing everyone, plus the beta version of Shadow (which is a giant lizard for some reason) defends the station from being stopped. Sonic and Shadow team up, save the world, Shadow dies for a few minutes, the end. Sonic the Hedgehog (2006): Even if that game is garbage, the story is alright enough and it still has the same things: Eggman tries getting using an old god trapped in the body of the princess of the kingdom of Soleana, eventually it's released, everything goes wrong, Sonic to the rescue, bam the end. Sonic Unleashed: Eggman unleashes (ha get it) the personnification of darkness, Dark Gaia, by splitting up the planet in pieces and draining the chaos emeralds (which turns Sonic into a werewolf for some reason), because Dark Gaia was in the middle of the planet. Sonic powers up all the emeralds again, Dark Gaia kicks Eggman out from the middle of the Earth and Sonic stops it with his own sentient superweapon, Light Gaia, who's been following him the whole time with amnesia after the planet split up. Also Light Gaia (or Chip as he's nicknamed) gets all the temples where Sonic recharged the Chaos Emeralds together to form a Mecha with them, so that's neat. The end. It happened so much that at this point, not only where fans suprised for the last few games where Eggman somehow didn't wake up an ancient being or if he did, this time he got it under control (those including a Time Eater and the Phantom Ruby, a gem that basically lets you modify reality to your heart's desire), it also look like Sonic Frontiers' story will revolve around a new ancient evil being released, with the old technological themes surrounding that game's promotion and the end of the latest trailer being a goddamn giant that would make Shadow of the Colossus' collosi look like giant children

[@ulforcemegamon3094]

And you were actually right ! Sonic Frontiers do deal with the theme of ancient superweapons Made to seal a powerful being

[@redeye3869]

“There is an expression in the Wasteland. Old World Blues. It refers to those so obsessed with the past they can’t see the present, much less the future, for what it is.”

[@watch50er]

Considering how fascinated I am with what is left of the old world, and how fascinated many other fans are with the old world, that theme is disturbingly meta… especially because fallout games center around character epics rather than multi generational planning, building, getting stronger from past mistakes, and actually moving forward…. The building mechanics in fallout 4 and 76 are good steps in the right direction but I wouldn’t be opposed to grand strategy beyond hearts of iron 4 mods “Beeeethesssdaaaaaaa!”

[@PilgrimXIII]

But what is left behind will be a New World Hope.

[@MachineElf_Official]

There's a fallout analogy to be made here

[@perchy22]

@@MachineElf_Official You do realize that quote is from Fallout, right?

[@namekman01]

@@perchy22 i didnt. i thought it was from wasteland, since he capitalized wasteland.

[@jahsiahandrews8510]

Fun subversion idea: Technology has advanced to the degree that the Ancient Superweapon is slightly outdated compared to modern weapons. Example: a 4000 year old machine that's roughly equivalent to a WW2 tank

[@spookyghostwriter3110]

Have you tried The Salvation War? Hell invades earth and is promptly run over. Heaven does the same and it becomes a race between various special forces trying to sneak in.

[@templarw20]

Dragonlance. The "Dragon Silver" that the ancient anti-dragon weapons were made of... is just decent steel, which isn't even that good compared to what the blacksmith character can make, himself. Could argue that the Katana Fleet from the Star Wars Legends "Thrawn Trilogy" counts. A lot of outdated ships, but with sides at a near parity, they were enough to cause a lot of trouble when they got put to use.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Have you played Skies of Arcadia? The 6 ancient civilisations had ancient superweapons called Gigas, that are basically kaiju that could be controlled with a special control stone. But military technology has advanced to the point that about 1/3 through the game, you steal a battleship prototype that can kill Gigas. The final Gigas is more impressive, because it can cause a meteor shower though.

[@SouthernGothicYT]

we kinda have that irl. Slings from certain old world cultures can move rocks like bullets.

[@chris.awilliams7138]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one sat here thinking, "To be honest, real-world weapons become either mainstream or obsolete fairly quickly, so any ancient super-weapons would probably be rubbish compared to modern weapons". A little sad that it didn't come up in the video though.

[@thetsarofall8666]

I just realized one of my old story ideas fits the description well. Basically i wanted to come up with an idea, "how could i bring the zombie trope to something like mobile suit gundam?" My idea revolved around a ww3/Armageddon scenario where one side developed an ai that ended up growing to hate its creators and secretly sabotaged both sides war efforts. This would backfire as the last resort option of nuclear annihilation is taken because neither side will accept defeat, and this ends up knocking the ai into a dormant state. Que a few hundred years later and humanity is on its way back from the brink when some random idiot accidentally reactivates one of the old suits lying around, which sends a distress beacon that ends up reactivating the whole system. Now the ai is awake, realizes the pests are still around, and has its goal on annihilating the dregs of humanity with its own hands to make way for what it views as a better world. Can our heros unite the desperate societies of humanity together to create a weapon capable of stopping it? Will the relics of the past save us or doom us? Can we as a species learn our lesson? Find out next time, in like, 40 years when i finally get old and bored enough to half ass write it.

[@boianko]

My favourite version of this trope I can across recently was in Fire Emblem 3 Houses, where there are mentions of divine light being sent by the gods to incinerate her enemies. Then at the end of a seige of a castle, out of nowhere, you see these pillars of light start descending on the castle. The camera zooms in and you see it's just a bunch of intercontinental ballistic missiles in a medieval world and they absolutely annihilate the castle.

[@nomireelnom4265]

That part was fucking hilarious. I was hoping they'd be brought up again later, but nah.

[@boianko]

@@nomireelnom4265 Wait wdym? What route were you on, since they were certainly brought up again in the route I played

[@nomireelnom4265]

I've played through all four routes. Verdant Wind has the most uses of them, which was only twice. Once to destroy the fort, and a second time to destroy a captured city the heroes where in. In the other routes, they're only used once or not at all.

[@vicenteborges7781]

A cool tidbit about the One Ring: We see it being used in the book! It's super important, but also easy to miss. When Frodo and Sam are on the slopes of Mount Doom, Gollum attacks them. Frodo, for the first time, uses the Ring for it's intended purpose: Command. Frodo tells Gollum that if he touches him again, he himself will be thrown into the fire. Thus a compulsion to obey, a geas, is laid on Gollum. This is the breaking point for Frodo, who after using the ring truly, cannot let it go into the fire. But it's also what saved them all, for Gollum also could not resist the Ring, fought Frodo for it and won. One sentence later he slipped and fell into the fire, ring and all, thus saving Middle Earth.

[@MySerpentine]

It's more that the Ring speaks through Frodo, I'd say. "At his breast there was a wheel of fire. Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice."

[@lizard3755]

Not only that, but when wearing the Ring while at Weathertop he's able to see the wraiths. Frodo also slowly gains the ability to perceive more of other's thoughts after having the ring close to him and when he offers Galadriel the ring when he looks into her mirror she says he has keener insight than others and he's also is able to see Nenya on her finger even though Sam can't. In addition to that, when Sam puts on the Ring to escape the orcs in Mordor that approach after Frodo's been bitten by Shelob and Sam thinks he's dead, Sam realizes he's able to understand the orc-speech and his hearing is amplified.

[@elisabethtenbrinkkelley8044]

@@lizard3755 He also appears as a dangerous warrior, a Man, as opposed to a Hobbit.

[@benjaminnewman6772]

This is not the first time Frodo uses the Ring, although Tolkien's magic system is so soft that it's easy to miss if you're looking for a specific "use" action. Frodo is using the Ring to control Gollum from the moment he makes him swear by it in The Two Towers. The curse on the slopes of Mt Doom is just the final straw.

[@goldenhorde6944]

Also on the subject of the One Ring: It's not just tricking people to get back to Sauron, it's expressly stated in the books that if someone with the Ring actually learned how to use it they would become powerful enough to defeat Sauron himself. That was the entire idea behind the attack on the Black Gate, which was essentially a suicide mission; Sauron, being evil, could not comprehend how someone might find the Ring and choose to destroy it rather than use it against him, so when Aragorn gathered an army and stormed Ithilien on his way to Morannon, Sauron assumed that Aragorn had the Ring and was now coming to depose him and instate himself as the new Dark Lord, leading Sauron to send every orc he could to face Aragorn, thus giving Frodo and Sam an opening to get to Orodruin and destroy the Ring. The Ring was so powerful that even a mortal like Aragorn could become powerful enough to face a Maia head on and still potentially win.

[@Blizzic]

Halo’s ancient superweapon is actually a pretty interesting twist on the “weapon was so powerful it killed the creators” thing. Because the people who made the Halos, the forerunners, designed it to do just that. They fired the rings knowing full well it would kill all of them, just to stop a greater enemy from spreading.

[@eneekmot]

Yeah, Halo plays right into ancient eldritch horror tropes (as do some of Bungie's earlier games). The Flood are an intergalactic-scale telepathic spreading evil that can bend reality and convince godlike artificial intelligences to betray their creators. Even worse, the Forerunners were equipped to deal with the Flood, and they made all the wrong decisions. They were in decline even before the Flood showed up. The Forerunners were so disgusted with how poorly they handled being the dominant galactic power, they handed humans the genetic keys to their technology, and then heroically pushed the "destroy all life to starve the Flood and let our AIs grow everything back thousands of years from now" button.

[@SomeKindaSpy]

@@eneekmot Man, Bungie was so cool. To be honest, the one trope that I feel like they should've kept on with is the one that they were *GOING* to carry over from Marathon: the Forerunners were Humanity's ancient ancestors and Humanity were basically a primitive sub-species designed by the Forerunners so that the Flood/Rings power would pass over them (on top of putting a shield on their planet to protect it from the Rings). Basically making Humans their "starting over" race.

[@RorikH]

@@SomeKindaSpy Yeah, making Forerunners ancient humans would make us being the reclaimers make a lot of sense, as opposed to them just deciding we were cool. Even though we attacked them.

[@lolmeme69_]

@@RorikH To be fair, whether we "attacked" is up for debate. It was closer to a mass migration, and they technically fired on us first.

[@RorikH]

​@@lolmeme69_ I knew we were running from the flood, but I did not know they fired first.

[@noodlethenerdle]

I think my favorite type of super weapon story is when the weapon is innocent, like it was a small child who doesn't remember it was a weapon... or it does and it plays innocent until it's forced to use its power by someone.

[@MatthewTheEmperor]

I personally love the "It's innocence is what caused the destruction of its creators" version where it did on purpose destroy those who created it but doesn't really understand the consequences of you know destroying everything around it... To it destruction is just it's favorite game... A game to which all must play. What happens to it by the plots end varies sometimes it realizes the horrors of its actions and ends its own life by choice other times it just doesn't give a damn about the effects of its actions and must be destroyed.

[@victorsage5214]

Sort of like Celebi in that one pokemon movie

[@sourwitch2340]

​@@MatthewTheEmperorI would love if it realized the consequences of its actions and just... deactivated the protocol that allowed it to be a weapon, effectively becoming just an innocent being.

[@MatthewTheEmperor]

@@sourwitch2340 Yeah that's nice too and I respect you're opinion but I'd rather it just stays evil to the very end when it dies...

[@theradioactiveplayer3461]

There was an interesting use of the Ancient Superweapon trope in Mortal Engines - the Medusa device, a weapon whose full potential is only hinted at throughout most of the story, and the mad pursuit of which induced one of the main characters' Tragic Backstory, is revealed later to have been relatively ordinary tool of warfare (as far as these things go) - it's destroyed in the end, as often happens, but there remains the terrible, looming question of: "if this was normal, then what kind of horror could have ended all of civilisation in just under 60 minutes?"

[@AnarchHive]

Konosuba: "Those idiots want me to build a super weapon, let's try to prolong the proecess as much as possible." _later_ "Damn I did it in the end... everyone is dead. I'm terrified. But it works, I'm proud and honestly, serves them right!"

[@thegloriouswizard5270]

Love that series

[@HoustonRLamb]

You know I’m glad that you had the same thought as I did. Seriously though how does one man make a deadly spider fortress, an explosion powered gun, a giant snake weapon, a robot dominatrix, and an entire fantasy race that literally redefines the meaning of the word EXTRA all because he was bored?

[@AnarchHive]

@@HoustonRLamb the guy is probably this world's Da Vinci - except totally lacking in common sense. Now Aqua's track record is 1:1. She send a good guy (aka Kyoya) and an idiot (the inventor dude) into the world. Depending on what Kazuma ultimately accomplishes that shows how well her judgement was. And considering it's Kazuma he might defeat the demon lord by coincidence/dumb luck - or nuke the entire land.

[@dylankelly3563]

The bit about the heroes not wanting the weapon for themselves made me laugh thinking about She-Ra where like half of the good-guys were fully on-board with deploying the giant ancient superweapon. And for bonus points, the bad guys only learn it existed because the good guys activate it.

[@orsolyafekete7485]

Yeah, that was a really good subversion of the trope. I could gush about She-Ra for days and season 4 is exceptional even by the shows own standards

[@mateusrp1994]

Extra bonus points: She used Transformers Prime footage and forgot that a chunk of the plot leading up to Unicron involves the protagonists running after ancient Cybertronian artifacts that they can use to beat up the Decepticons.

[@rmsgrey]

Yeah, Netflix She-Ra is stupidly good, especially considering it's a reboot of a cartoon invented entirely to sell toys to girls so they'd stop stealing their brothers' toys. And then the finale is all about defusing the superweapon safely rather than simply destroying it or sealing it away.

[@jasonblalock4429]

@@mateusrp1994 A few Assassin's Creed games have variations on that same idea. (Particularly Rogue.) Throughout the series, both sides end up making asses of themselves at various points, in their quests to find ancient Precursor artifacts.

[@Soveliss74]

What if the ancient weapon was a villian, but after being sealed away for centuries, turned good? Like, the main villian is looking for it to unleash it on the world but instead, it joins the hero's and, after the story, shuts back down or leaves until it's needed again

[@daydreamer1917]

The very first thing that came to mind here was the Star Forge from KOTOR. It destroyed a millennia-old political entity literally called the Infinite Empire by twisting the minds of the empire’s dominant species (the Rakata) and making them more irrational and aggressive, which led to factionalism and warlords popping up all over the place. That, coupled with a wonderfully timed plague - which exclusively affected that same dominant species and stripped them of their ability to use the force (this takes place in the Star Wars universe) - was enough to start a massive slave revolt that engulfed the empire, where the now defenseless former masters were purged.

[@Draeckon]

One correction: I'm fairly certain it was not the plague that stripped them of the force, but the constant over-exposure to the Force through their society-wide, force-based technology that eventually inured them to it. I replayed and watched someone play through the first game relatively recently and the Rakatan sages talk about it.

[@phastinemoon]

I laugh whenever I hear about “The Infinite Empire” because… well, what a cosmically overly self-important name, and they WEREN’T infinite. The hubris!

[@Ale-dd3ek]

​@@phastinemoon those guys had an ego bigger than the Milky Way

[@legomaniac213]

Funny enough, it's shown later that using the Star Forge to just make weapons was a severe waste of its power. An Imperial sidequest on Nar Shadda in SWTOR revealed that the Star Forge was actually capable of creating worlds and life. The Rakata, and later Malak and Revan, only saw it as a tool of conquest and that might have warped its purpose.

[@jono74656]

I love seeing Atlantis: the Lost Empire referenced. Truly an underrated Disney gem

[@DaDunge]

It's just a Laputa rippoff.

[@generalcatkaa5864]

I really liked that movie, but I understand why it didn't do well. The side characters are the best part about it, and yet you could completely remove them and the story wouldn't change at all.

[@patrickfrost9405]

@@DaDunge You should watch the original Stargate movie.

[@boa_firebrand]

@@generalcatkaa5864 vinny and sweets are my favorite characters

[@siyomai]

This ep made me wach the movie again. Lols.

[@sempersolus5511]

My favorite answer to "If the ancient superweapon is so powerful, why is its respective civilization gone now?" is: _It's not supposed to be a superweapon._ That thing you're trying to use as a bomb? That's a spare smartphone battery. That indestructible robot supersoldier? That's a friggin' _Roomba;_ people have evolved to the point where it thinks it needs to do pest control on them. And that floating iron fortress that you're making shoot lasers at global landmarks as a show of force? It's _supposed_ to go into orbit, where its beam degrades in the atmosphere and harmlessly charges your devices. The ancient civilization's disappearance caused the "weapon" to be hidden, not the other way around. Pretty sure this is literally the case in Atlantis: The Lost Empire, which Red used clips of.

[@Stray7]

Alternatively, the "superweapon" is a waste product of some sort that the civilization wanted to dispose of -- one man's "toxic waste" is another man's "goop that spreads plague to my enemies." This is a real thing that real scientists working on nuclear waste storage facilities have put thought into.

[@eriksieurin334]

The ancient military base of super destructive technology is a theme park. It's just one with very bad safety protocols.

[@k.5425]

1:45 - 1:47 sooo trueee. I think this all the time I watch a movie or series along these lines. When I was playing star wars (I forget which version it was). The ASW was not a weapon per sat but it was a device thing that could locate all potential Jedi (ie. any kid with the force). The evil ones basically wanted to use it to build an army more or less(I mean what else would it be, right? 😂😂) . And obviously the protagonists wanted to "protect" it by getting there first. The whole time I was playing the game I was just like "YOU'RE LITERALLY LEAVING THE VILLAIN BREADCRUMBS TO FOLLOW". Because the villains didn't actually know where it was so it was the protagonist(my avatar) and his squad that was doing all the puzzles and the villains basically follow them. 🙄🙄 I was ANNOYEEDDDD. Anyway, it ended anyways so...

[@MrJamesb192]

"Valley of the Dying Things"(?) in Spiderweb Software's "Blades of Avernum"? The plagues and death are caused by a leaking waste dump under not Hogwarts and would've gone away if someone started the incinerator.

[@andrewgreeb916]

Like the RimWorld orbital power beam targeter, a tool designed to order power producing satilites to send a beam of power down to be safely collected in a large power dish, if there isn't one the ground and air will burn with the immense discharge of energy, but only for a few seconds as the satellites will detect the massive heat buildup and shutoff the beam

[@SirLimeyone]

Gotta give a shout out to one of my favourite pieces of MTG flavour text, the card Worldslayer, It wipes the board on contact and the flavour text reads. "If that is what you seek, try looking in craters."

[@jondoeband2]

A particularly interesting example of this is the Numidium from the elder scrolls, which has do not use all over it. Supposedly the race that created it (the dwemer) messed up building it so bad that the entire race was turned into it's armor and every time it's activated it breaks reality. And yet, fractions fight over control of it or attempt to build another one, with similar results.

[@blakedavis2447]

“Wealth, power and snickers bars” sounds like the one ring has its priorities in order

[@Loremastrful]

Bilbo: Benny? Smaug: What! Bilbo: Have a snickers bar. Smaug: Why? Bilbio: Cause you act right beastly when you're hungry. Smaug takes the Snickers. Bilbo: Better? Sherlock: Better.

[@flipflopzthreeonethree1873]

Well, if they were really in order it would be snickers bar, wealth, power. ;)

[@jon-paulfilkins7820]

In the UK there is an advertising theme to snickers hinging on the hungry and cranky theme (Hangry?) with the punchline "Not yourself, have a snickers".

[@Akkalia]

The Chosen One has a nut allergy.

[@stevenstice6683]

@@Akkalia Any time someone mentions a Chosen One, I think of Kung Pow.

[@grahamkristensen9301]

The point you made about life moving on while civilizations fall is a big reason why I love Breath of the Wild. There's this melancholy of stumbling across the various ruins scattered across Hyrule and seeing the lair of the thing that caused its destruction just over the horizon, and realizing that people once lived here. Just wandering around you can see there was something greater here, something that met a horrible and violent end, and that civilization is still picking up the pieces a hundred years later. But the deer don't know that. The trees don't care. Life just continued to thrive.

[@troylarsen10]

With that the humans (hylians) are also just people. Their side quests are I want to see this fire rod or I heard there's a really cool horse. And that feels very good to see especially really soon after a big bad thing they're just continuing being people.

[@TheRhuen]

@@troylarsen10 and it is a unique case (even for a Zelda game) as the apocalypse wasn't just last week or a thousand plus years ago. Or 10,000 *which the previous one was but that is so long ago that its downright silly to act like its common knowledge*, no, in Breath of the Wild, the most recent apocalypse was 100 years ago, instead of a real world comparison being wandering about some stone age apocalypse it would be like if the apocalypse happened in 1920. Not so recent its in living memory but not so long ago that its a thing of myth and legend. To the Hylians this is a story from their great grandparents time that they can still remnants of but are trying to live their lives. Meanwhile the Sheikah and Zora with their much longer life spans regard it as a recent event. It creates a nice middle ground and relative reaction to it.

[@luckyc4t110]

It's funny to think that Breath of the Wild is the aftermath of an Ancient Superweapon story. The good guys went searching for Ancient Superweapons, and when it was time to use them, they were turned against the good guys by the bad guy. This sounds like it would be a great setup for the protagonist to put the Ancient Superweapons to bed once and for all, but instead, he reclaims the Ancient Superweapons and uses them to fight the bad guy as originally intended. The people who unearthed the Ancient Superweapons were right to do so all along, there were just some hiccups on the way.

[@Ilikecatsismychannelname]

And all because the people at Nintendo who made the game REALLY loved Ghibli films and wanted to do an homage of sorts...as is right and proper. I'm an unapologetic Ghibli fan and Zelda fan. BotW united two of my great loves. I had no chance and will be falling down this pit forever...and I'm okay with that!

[@jadennienhueser30]

Thanks for the ghibli usage, Castle in the Sky and Nausicaa have always been my favorite Ghibli movies!

[@theradioactiveplayer3461]

A cool version of the ancient superweapon was used in a moderately recent Aquaman comic, where a regular archaeologist was misled into briefly opening the gates of Tartarus. And who walks out? Not kronos, not echidna, not any monster. Out steps Heracles, the strongest human to ever exist - except after being tricked into an eternal battle against the enemies of humanity, he eventually went insane and is now a Classic Hulk-style musclebound threat

[@Respectable_Username]

I love the twist on it they did in Doctor Who: The Day of the Doctor where the superweapon was sentient in such a way to discourage itself from being used. I liked that.

[@hilarymajor3983]

I kept waiting for Red to bring that up. Also, locking away an eldritch god of evil and chaos that can’t be reasoned with or negotiated, bringing nothing but destruction in his wake - the Oncoming Storm.

[@aros0018]

Ooh, I didn't think of that but that's a good one. It's especially interesting considering the implication that the Doctor likely did actually use The Moment to end the war the first time around, thus The Moment bringing in his future version who remember doing that to get him to change his mind this time.

[@jo1stormlord]

I love the twist Ben 10 did with this. Grandpa Max who is usually the Iroh and ultimate practical voice of reason in the group gets obsessed with preventing the villains of the episode from getting their hands on the weapon. Ben nearly dies due to that obsession. He makes a choice to save Ben, villain gets the ancient superweapon from the socket, raises that goldish shiny sword that is "the ultimate weapon" as he gloats... and the sword immediately turns to dust. It was made from steel alloy thousands of years ago when the rest of the world still used much softer bronze. It was indeed the ultimate sword once, but has long since rusted.

[@willparry530]

oh yeah, the DW version was great

[@JarieSuicune]

@@aros0018 There was no "first time around". The moment literally showed him the future that DID happen, because it knows what will happen if it does. It is similar to a self-fulfilling prophecy, in the sense that the Moment knows how he will react to the knowledge he learns, but he still makes his choices entirely on his own (with himself and himself...). Any "lack of will" argument is avoided by the fact that he literally doesn't remember that that is how the events occurred, he honestly intended to use the Moment and honestly believes he did so until it is so far in his timeline that the knowledge of the truth could made no impact on the events (ie: 12th Doctor) and would instead bring a peace for himself at that point. The Moment basically cheated the system by showing the Doctor the future that would enable him to make the choice that would be both best for him (and his people and the universe as a whole) in the long run while still managing to achieve his final goal of ending the Time War by totally stopping the Chancellor (via sealing Gallifrey) and the Daleks (via near-absolute destruction). However, it never FORCED him to do so. The Doctor totally had the option of trying to use the Big Red Button she offered him, but she literally knew that he would always take a better option if only he knew he had one and so opened the door to it. As per the description of the Moment :"how do you use a weapon of absolute mass destruction when it can hold judgement on you?" Only a person who truly does want to do good can make use of that power, and only in the way the Moment allows/wants. Basically, it is comparable to a character who is given powers by a god: they can do epic and powerful things, but only so long as they are true to the agreement with that deity; the second they even attempt to go outside of those bounds, they have no power whatsoever. (Kind of like a Paladin in D&D, only they shouldn't be able to USE their powers for anything contrary to their god's will and THEN fall, they should just be permanently denied their powers including the event where they tried to abuse them. I dislike the "Paladin takes the fall" events.)

[@Del_S]

"We've found an ancient superweapon." "Alright, let's destroy it with our modern superweapons so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands."

[@sethhaynes8237]

Hey hitting thing with sticks til it breaks always works.

[@samlund8543]

I know it’s not technically a modern super weapon, but this immediately made me think of blowing up the first Halo ring with a fusion reactor

[@metaparalysis3441]

@@samlund8543 nukes are the closest thing we have to a superweapon

[@ZenoDLC]

@@sethhaynes8237 unless we run out of sticks first

[@ender01o66]

@@samlund8543 ikr

[@zackthezabarak739]

A trope I think would be cool for you to talk about is the Ace/broken ace: a person who is good at just abou everything( or at least good enough) and what that can do for a story. And it’s sibling trope the broken ace, a character who is good at just about everything they put their mind to but are functionally miserable, be it from a personal tragedy, being maimed in an accident, possessing ptsd or some other mental disorder, or just becoming jaded from years of doing the same thing for years. I think it’s interesting to read about the kind of person we all want to be and that person in our life we are all jealous of and what they go through and then seeing what could break them or make them struggle.

[@bllyfran8500]

I loved how this trope was used in One Piece. Where in the span of like 800 chapters we come to see how devastating and powerful the weapons are and how they can change the world. But then we learn of how despite having these powerful weapons the ancient civilization was destroyed by an even stronger force which may still be around today. Really cool way to set up a final villain.

[@chaotixthefox]

May??? It's been confirmed the World Government was that force for a pretty long time now.

[@sodapone]

One of my favourite implementations of this trope is actually an SCP entry: SCP-4400. Basically, Foundation agents found a Mayan temple containing nuclear waste, and pieced together that the Mayans had somehow gotten the means to create nuclear bombs, _centuries_ before the Manhattan Project. The temple has carvings depicting the effects of radiation poisoning, and how they've even seemingly enchanted the area closest to the nuclear waste and bombs to make people completely _terrified_ the deeper they go into the temple, to the point where even the most well-trained MTF soldiers literally soil themselves trying. The entire entry is inspired by the strategies the US government themselves are looking into in order to prevent future generations from disturbing long-term nuclear waste disposal facilities - which itself is basically this trope in real life. It's named after these plans too; "This Is Not A Place Of Honor".

[@philipearakaki]

Suddenly the Flayed god makes more sense. They need better lab security...

[@tezz2698]

I still think Finland's plan with Onkalo is the best. The idea is to basically just bury the waste without leaving any signs of the storage's existence. The site itself is also extremely boring geologically, having no interesting resources and having been extremely stable for hundreds of millions of years.

[@anomalocaris7436]

"Cáceres? Cáceres is a demon that will teach you how to split an atom. I already know of such a demon, and his name is Robert Oppenheimer."

[@mistermidnight1823]

I'm wondering if my Sapphire Swords concept is real and someone bad found them...

[@BlackEpyon]

I find it difficult to believe that Mayans could have harnessed nuclear energy, considering that what did them in were disease, and men on horseback with muskets.

[@annikathewitch3950]

There is also the option where there were other ways to deal with the sentient ancient superweapon without sealing them up- just no one bothered to try because they couldn't see them as anything more than a monster

[@Attaxalotl]

Stealing this!

[@codybarnes1531]

9:35 I dont think Golum was getting alot of snickers. "We promise precious the hobbites has the snickers" "Whats a Bagginses, Bagginses HAS snickers?" "Baggins forgot the snickers" "BAGGINSES FORGOTS THE SNICKERS PRECIOUS!" Oh that scene played out in my head and it was too funny not to share. Also if the one ring keeps offering things does that make it a "Promise Ring" lol? I'll see my self out now.

[@donsample1002]

There is also the "we evolved past the need for such toys" trope, where the ancient civilization just left all their old toys behind when they moved on, so now the universe is littered with sometimes useful, sometimes dangerous artifacts from the past. This is a fairly common trope in the _Stargate_ 'verse.

[@Johnrich395]

This reminds me of an Einstein quote: “I know not what weapons WW3 will be fought with, but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones.”

[@wjzav1971]

I suddenly have to think of that one Star Trek episode. I think it was called "The Chase" where the Enterprise, Klingons, Cardassians and Romulans were looking for a secret from an ancient civilzation that predates every other civilization. And they all think its some kind of unlimited power source or superweapon. But then it turns out to be a message of peace and unity from that ancient civilzation that reveals that they seeded their own DNA onto different planets, which is why humans, Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, etc are all distantly related.

[@TheNightWatcher1385]

I love the Halo Rings because the story is that the ancient race used it to try and stop an even bigger threat but got caught in the weapon’s crossfire with said threat.

[@foxeye245]

My favorite version of this trope has always been the “good super weapon.” The version where the ancient super weapon was created to defeat an ancient evil but was ultimately lost and forgotten because the ancient evil was defeated or destroyed.

[@magiciansapprentice9230]

As soon as I read that, my mind immediately jumped to the oxygen destroyer (even though it's barely similar to your description)

[@GodsandmonstersofthePen]

Mine went to Rasputin from Destiny

[@SlowWinterNuts]

Reminds me of the Divine Beasts and the Guardians from Breath of the Wild. Just... You know... BEFORE they get hijacked by the ancient evil that came back lol

[@st.nicholas6041]

First thing i think of are the Halo rings from Halo.

[@seanpaul4574]

This made me immediately think of the Halo Arrays. Massive Rings that were made to wipe out all life in the galaxy. With this info alone you would think it could only be made for the sake of Pure Evil. Like some crazed mastermind just hated everything and wanted to destroy all life for the hell of it, but with the knowledge of why it was made it becomes a very unique example of a Super Weapon. This weapon was made to fight the Flood, a galaxy wide entity/race that’s sole purpose is to consume life and grow. This was an unstoppable force that was so big and powerful that the Forerunners, an advance race of humanoid beings that while having weapons perfect for fighting the Flood (plasma/burning weapons) were still powerless to stop them. Their only option after a long struggle with the parasite was to make the Halo Arrays which as I said before will destroy all life in the universe/galaxy/whatever, not to kill the Flood (side note they didn’t know if there was more flood outside their universe) but instead their food. Even if some Flood survived they would eventually starve to death in a vacant galaxy. After they starved the Forerunners machines would automatically repopulate the galaxy with species they collected prior to the Rings firing.

[@lunarshadow5584]

If there was one way to change the "weapon was actually a villain" it would be something like the "weapon was an unstable victim" he didn't want the power, the power made him immortal, he can't control it, it is driving him insane. It would be a good way of telling about the interesting themes. You have someone to tell what happened before he destroyed the civilization, maybe he even sealed himself away, maybe his power is corrupting his mind or maybe the civilization didn't collapse, everyone ran away from that land after sealing it away, then long after decedents mistake it for a collapsed civilization when it was actually an abandoned one. There is definitely more that can be done, you just need the right idea.

[@noahplatt3705]

So Final Fantasy 15

[@absent612]

i was thinking it could also be something like "the weapon's power is actually misinterpreted and while it is sentient it is way weaker than anyone expects, being unfairly punished for the sin of Existing"

[@blue-eyeswhitekirbo2543]

Ever played sonic adventure?

[@Azzaciel]

Maybe the ancient "evil" wasn't actually evil, but rather a political or geopolitical enemy of whoever sealed them. They couldn't reason with each other, but both sides could reason with the new, but the winner of their war collapsed over time and only old propaganda remained calling their enemy as the ultimate evil. Just because nobody who tried writing this sort of thing made it big, doesn't preclude something like this from being a good story. I would even go so far as to bet that a story like that was probably already written, it just wasn't popular enough to be remembered by most people at the time, so now almost nobody knows of it.

[@angeldude101]

In the case that I'm thinking of with "the super weapon is actually a villain," it's not actually that the weapon was designed to be evil so much as he was awoken by someone who wouldn't have minded the world being destroyed and the weapon he awoke is just working from those feelings. The story actually goes pretty deep with the question of just how evil he really is when he really just acts _like a weapon_ that was instructed to destroy everything and had no objections to doing so.

[@magnum567134]

The best description I heard of the Ring's power is that "all it does is turn you into an invisible crackhead"

[@maddiestratus]

The second part about ancient super villains reminded me of a game i used to love as a kid called Fossil Fighters Champions, where the villain was not only an ancient malevolent being who was sealed away by a long-gone civilization because evil, but also ruled over that civilization for centuries and was even released from his tomb before the game's main story even begins, and was hiding in plain sight throughout the entire game.

[@orCane]

Had an interesting idea while watching this. A villain and a group of good guys (that includes this wise older historian) are racing to an ancient superweapon, the villain to wield it and the good guys to stop her. But as they journey forward, the villain is gradually more and more shaken by the murals, the messages and the death of her henches in various traps whereas the historian gets more and more excited about coming so close to his area of study. Just as both villain and heroes reach the final chamber, the villain change her mind and decide to not go through with it. That's when the historian reveal he had hoped the villain would succeed so that he could remain morally pure while still seeing the weapon used, admits to and apologises for just being "too curious" and then flips the switch.

[@CarlottaStudios]

WHERE IS THE BOOK FOR THIS I WANT TO READ IT

[@AskMia411]

Pretty solid story there

[@thelazyblade1016]

I was thinking the reveal would be that the historian somehow IS the ancient superweapon. And was fucking with the ENTIRE cast for shits and giggles, THE WHOLE TIME. Then he gives them some sort of lesson about hubris, brings down his ancient home Atlantis style and laughs like a madman whilst the characters try to escape the collapsing structure. Villianess included.

[@orCane]

@@thelazyblade1016 Sure, that's a cool take. :) What I found most interesting about my idea though, is specifically how the roles of heroes and villain reverses over the course of the plot. How the villain responds reasonably to people dying in front of her eyes whereas the historian gets caught up in his own obsession and gets *less* concerned about the lives of others because of how interested he is in the weapon.

[@AskMia411]

@Fremen The first ideas that come to my mind: Maybe they wanted it for a specific, narrow purpose but see it only causes widespread destruction and is useless for their goal. Maybe something in the apocalypse logs cuts through her walls and strikes at her remaining humanity. Maybe this was her first dive into villainy and when it comes down to it, she doesn't have it in her to unleash that level of destruction. It's OP's sandbox, and there is a sliding scale from antagonist to absolute monster and the villain can be anywhere in between

[@Skeletonk]

It turns out the ancient super weapon was the friends we made along the way.

[@kylehumbert5735]

The real ancient super weapon was inside us all along

[@moist_onions]

Based Harry Potter vibes

[@SaSa-gn3rr]

literally, in one piece's case

[@Loremastrful]

It's true in Equestria

[@brookejon3695]

The plot of She-Ra in a nutshell.

[@valrend7374]

Old star wars pre-canon had a LOT of this trope, the most known one being the Star Forge from the Old Republic, but there was also Centerpoint Station, or the Sith Temple in Rebels (except the Sith Temple is canon, oh yeah and the giant mech-walker thing in Bad Batch)

[@maxithalo7796]

for the one ring, the promisse of "if you're strong enough, you can do so and so" is a really good way to work with characters that are selfish and/or have a big ego, because they'll think they're the ones that ARE strong enough to wield it, only to fail in the process

[@KyleRayner12]

There's an interesting inversion on this trope in the Hitchhiker's Guide series (third book): an ancient civilization obsessed with violence and conquest *wants* a superweapon, but their advanced AI refuses to make it because such a weapon would cause more damage than could possibly be justified by any outcome. They respond by blowing up the AI and then destroying themselves by unrelated stupid and violent means. The AI survives as a disparate collection of parts, stitches itself back together, and goes insane, deciding that it was wrong to oppose its creators and that it should've done as ordered. So it builds the weapon and spends millennia carefully cultivating an extremely xenophobic society from the ground up so that it'll have someone willing to use it.

[@jasonblalock4429]

And then the Krikkiters looked up into the vast endless starry sky for the first time, and said: "It'll have to go."

[@galaxystudios370]

Iirc the AI’s final plan fails because Arthur Dent was terrible at throwing.

[@goroakechi6126]

“It has power too vast to comprehend!” “But it’s two million years old, haven’t we got something bette-“ “TOO V A S T”

[@SennaHawx]

I want the ancient weapon of mass destruction to just be a slingshot or maybe simply a instruction for creating a fireplace

[@bibbobella]

I would like a story where the super ancient weapon turns out to just he gunpowder created maybe a few hundred years before it was discovered again. I can just imagine the scared look as they open the holy box with their guns drawn only to find old now useless gunpowder. Have it be a funny moment with one of the dumb bad guys scratch his head with his gun while going "I dont get it? Why would they seal away gunpowder? How is that at all too dnagerous for human han-" *proceed to accidently shoot himself in the head as the rest just state at him then down at their own guns*

[@goroakechi6126]

@@bibbobella “You’re a fourth rate duelist with sixth rate gunpowder, Yugi! Feast your eyes on my ultimate weapon, *Blue Eyes White AR-15!!!”*

[@silvertrimhill9844]

Necron after a 60million year nap: You called?

[@FonVegen]

If something - as in, a machine or weapon - was millions of years old and still intact you better believe I'd have a healthy dose of respect for it and whoever made it.

[@OsmSkylandersCheats]

It occurred to me that Psychonauts 2 is an “ancient supervillain” plot that I think avoids a lot of a pitfalls that Red mentioned

[@ish9679]

Space Runaway Ideon tackles this trope in an interesting way. It basically is just an ancient superweapon that everyone wants for galactic domination, but it is also a character on its own.

[@thomasffrench3639]

I need to see that show. I love Tomino stuff I’ve seen

[@thevideo-beast122]

You know, I want at least one piece of fiction where everyone is after this “super arsenal” from a ancient and “advanced” empire, for only it to turn out to be a huge stockpile of swords and spears and all is rusted to $h!t.

[@legomaniac213]

I think there was an episode of Ben 10 where Grandpa Max and some villain were after an ancient sword. When the villain got to it first and pulled it from it's pedestal, it crumbled into dust because it was sitting there for centuries.

[@marocat4749]

One epiode of angl where illyria is after their army , and shock, its all dead after millennia.

[@anoninunen]

Ironically, this does happen in the Wano-related parts of One Piece

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

Well. Currently I am working on a McGuffin hunt plot, but it deviates from "search for ancient weapon to win a war by destructive force" into "search for ancient food recipe to win a war through morale."

[@derpydood]

Or have the "advanced super weapons" only be advanced from the perspective of that ancient civilization. Ex. Nazi expedition finds the arsenal of a long lost ancient kingdom. It's flintlock rifles and a cannon. The only person in the room that isn't pissed is the plucky archeologist because this rewrites history. The SS officer leading things spends the journey home thinking about the couple dozen troops and equipment/vehicles he just lost the Reich, and wondering how he's going to spin this.

[@rmsgrey]

A couple of thoughts: - while no-one ever gives it much thought, there's an ancient superweapon in the Narnia series - in the Magician's Nephew, the protagonists unintentionally awaken the sole survivor of a dying world who, it turns out, used something called the Deplorable Word to "win" against her sister. Luckily, it seems the rules of magic vary from world to world, so she doesn't have that sort of power when she ends up in Narnia. - Horizon: Zero Dawn is the result of Ted Faro almost accidentally destroying all of humanity twice over. Once by creating the superweapon that does successfully destroy all life, leaving only GAIA to recreate the biosphere; and a second time by deleting Apollo, thereby breaking the programs intended to raise the first generation of new humans - if there hadn't been multiple levels of failsafes built into the programs, the new humans would have starved to death in the creche regions, unable to pass the Apollo-mediated tests to progress into the education regions...

[@AceJohnny80]

H:ZD’s story is fun to think about in context of game development (I recommend the amazing NoClip documentary): they started with “Bronze Age fighting/disassembling robot t-rexes” gameplay, and built a story around that (hiring the one of the extremely talented Fallout: New Vegas writers for the role). So, how do you end up with Bronze Age people fighting robot animals? Well clearly you need an advanced civilization to have created the robots, but they’re gone. So: there must’ve been an apocalypse. Why are there Bronze Age humans, and not more advanced? Well, some population of humans must’ve survived but lost all knowledge. So: Atlas deletion sub-plot. It’s superbly corny, but it fits the setting. (And I still felt the tragedy when discovering the room full of the dead directors)

[@carlosroo5460]

You mean she said "f*ck", right?

[@selenopheria]

And then she fled to the outskirts for hundreds of years before assuming the mantle of The White Witch and making a vile nuisance of herself.

[@themysterfox8695]

damn,how much of a dipshit do you have to be to accidentally destroy humanity not once but TWICE

[@thelordz33]

@@carlosroo5460 probably "n*****r"

[@tc6509]

Not sure if this has been done or suggested before, but a trope I've always found interesting is the "unstoppable wave" Faction in most franchises. Such as the flood from halo, the swarm from starcraft, the whitewalkers and the wights I'm GoT, or even the skaven from warhammer. I see similar elements in all of these factions.

[@ImmortalLemon]

One of my favorite twists with this trope is from the show Wakfu. The main villain had this alien artifact that he used as a super weapon to power himself up and accomplish some crazy thing but it turns out that it was never made to be a weapon. It’s a powerful tool that the comparatively primitive world it’s in now couldn’t see that at first

[@BrazenBard]

My favorite subversion (is it a subversion? I think it is) of the trope: "So, the superweapon is a piece of artillery 500 years ahead of its time..." "Yes, it's remarkably powerful." "And it's been lost for a thousand years..." "Your point?" "You dragged us halfway around the world and into a dusty old ruin for an artillery piece that's been outdated for half a millennium. I'm out."

[@AccidentalNinja]

It is a good one, either a weapon advanced for its time or perhaps just gets a legend built around it, when, in actuality, it isn't very powerful compared to what exists now.

[@CrownofMischief]

"This powerful substance was said to have the power to bring the wrath of gods to earth, and wipe out hosts of men in its wake! It's power was so great that it could break through the mountains themselves! The ancients locked it away, for fear of its power." "Dude, it's just dynamite. We used stronger stuff to break down the door sealing it in"

[@platinumchromee3191]

@@CrownofMischief "we used a literal nuke to open the goddamn door"

[@gethinblake4826]

This is essentially what would happen if excalibur was discovered right now. Ancient weapon meant to outshine any of its contemporaries, lost to time, huge mythos surrounding it. Its not a perfect example but it still works

[@BrazenBard]

@@gethinblake4826 Eh, Excalibur would perhaps still be a pretty awesome blade, if rediscovered today; swords might not be the weapon of choice in a conflict today, but if you could get the sword *and the original scabbard*, and they actually work as advertised, you'd change the face of war single-handedly. "While wielding Excalibur, you cannot lose a fight, and while you have the scabbard, no matter the wound, you will not lose a drop of blod." Most likely, though, Excalibur would most likely have been made from meteoric steel, but unless it has by fluke of metallurgy the same tarnish-resistant properties as the Sword of Goujian, it'll be pretty worn and brittle by now...

[@hannahvasby-burnie2477]

A nuanced way to do the "villain sealed away" version of this trope could be that once the villain, known for being the Worst™ and the downfall of civilisation, is revived, the heroes (and also the previous bad guy) realise that this isn't some demon or monster, it's just like, a politician or something. And, what's worse, by the standards of modern society is actually... decent. The heroes are left to reflect on the fact that, to their ancestors, they are living in the worse possible scenario, and the villain played no part in it.

[@imjustdandy9799]

Outer Wilds DLC

[@k.5425]

1:45 - 1:47 sooo trueee. I think this all the time I watch a movie or series along these lines. When I was playing star wars (I forget which version it was). The ASW was not a weapon per sat but it was a device thing that could locate all potential Jedi (ie. any kid with the force). The evil ones basically wanted to use it to build an army more or less(I mean what else would it be, right? 😂😂) . And obviously the protagonists wanted to "protect" it by getting there first. The whole time I was playing the game I was just like "YOU'RE LITERALLY LEAVING THE VILLAIN BREADCRUMBS TO FOLLOW". Because the villains didn't actually know where it was so it was the protagonist(my avatar) and his squad that was doing all the puzzles and the villains basically follow them. 🙄🙄 I was ANNOYEEDDDD. Anyway, it ended anyways so...

[@JarieSuicune]

Doctor Who, The Pandorica Opens. The "Villain" inside WAS a villain... to those who feared him (because he was super deadly and destructive to them... because THEY are genocidal, enslavers, and such with a misguided fear that he will eventually destroy the entire universe they, and everyone else in the universe, exist in.) Ironically, it's BECAUSE of him being sealed that he is unable to STOP the event that ends the universe in the first place. (He does manage to fix it, mostly.) On the flip side, the person inside is actually the biggest hero of all the universe, who has saved toys, pets, babies, children, adults, societies, worlds, universes, and even reality itself from destruction (all at various times), a hero with hearts of gold despite bearing the mental and emotional burden of having done things that has resulted in him being known by some peoples by titles such as "The Oncoming Storm" or "The Predator of the Daleks" because of the sheer destruction (near-genocide and planetary destruction included) he has been forced to commit to save the lives of countless innocents around the universe.

[@notinorder9630]

There are a few Stargate SG-1 episodes that do this, from having another planet asking for help turn out to be eugenic favoring Nazis therefore making our heroes the 'villains' to them(via using ancient mcguffin to contact them, to accidentally reviving a religious zelot and having them do a local terrorism on their own planet, to literally having a politician get 'possesed' by another alien polititian and having them try to kill our heroes with their own politics. My memories not great but can't remember if, aside from being godless heathens, they ever unleashed a 'villain' that was equivalent to their own ways of life.

[@dylanswift5185]

Another great way to do the villain sealed away trope is to make them some form of deity linked to the hero or bound into eternal struggle with another deity. This can often be part of a "return to balance" storyline where protagonists have to learn and accept the existence of evil/chaos/death as a natural and important part of the universe. It can also be a great moment for a protagonist to be forced to make a sacrifice because they learn that themselves or a close friend is directly linked to this deity's power and danger. I'm personally very fond of stories where the sealed away villain is evil because they are so incredibly powerful and knowledgeable that they probably can remake the universe as a utopia, but it requires incredible destruction to life or at least the things we hold dear as humans (Example: Reawakened evil will turn the world into a utopia they desire but they must remove all free will so evil isn't possible).

[@zyvernious]

In cod zombies lore, there's an object called the MPD which is an extra dimensional conduit which allowed the control of zombies, but the reason it exists is for said extra dimensional forces enter the regular dimension by having humans discover it

[@kaanavsomaiya1254]

another example of an ancient superweapon is ford's portal that causes chaos in the form of wierdmaggedon

[@JuniperFinch538]

"Halo... It's divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation" a rare case where the ancient superweapon worked perfectly and did Exactly what its creators intended it to do... Something cataclysmic

[@metaparalysis3441]

ironically the super weapon was intended to destroy another superweapon an organic one (note technically it failed, because they kept samples)

[@Hust91]

It's still not quite clear why all the forerunners died however, as they seemed to have perfectly functional systems to keep much of their population alive either by not being in space or by being outside the range of the Halo Array's blast on the ark.

[@metaparalysis3441]

@@Hust91 maybe there were too little

[@Hust91]

@@metaparalysis3441 At their tech level, just a few scraps of genetic material should have been sufficient to revive their race if any of their AI cared to do so, or if even one member of the species was still alive.

[@metaparalysis3441]

@@Hust91 but it's probably some kind of honour