Trope Talk - The Mentor

[@Cattaract]

Iroh is definitely one of the greatest mentor-type characters out there. He is well aware of who Zuko is trying to become (a villain) and what he's planning to do (capturing the Avatar and gaining power while failing to realize how destructive and negative he is), yet his uncle slowly but surely helps to shape him into a better person. It's already incredible that absolutely EVERY important character in the Avatar series has gone some major changes and HUGE development. Zuko is one of those who had a really bad start (as a moody teenager with anger management issues and lack of self-control) yet Iroh was his biggest influence. Iroh continued to support Zuko no matter their ups and downs, no matter how much of a brat he was. That's a great way to show family values as well. Even if Zuko's father and mother (later on) weren't there to support him throughout the series, Iroh was always there, worrying and trying to help him in any way possible. His love was sincere.

[@Rosefire]

Great analysis of Iroh! There's so much to him and yet I was surprised how mellow he was when I first saw him on screen. He is definitely a capable warrior and not someone to toy with and yet he doesn't argue with Zuko or force him to do things he doesn't want. Iroh sits patiently in the background and offers his nephew a wise word or two. I think he knew how obstinate and stubborn Zuko was being so a direct approach of "you're doing this wrong" would only make Zuko more angry and rash. It also resonates with the need for a hero to have family support along their journey. It can be a member of their own bloodline (like Iroh is Zuko's uncle) or friends who serve as a surrogate family. I see Toph in the latter because her own parents smothered her and she had to leave so she could mature. Her friends became her surrogate family who challenged and inspired Toph to become the best person she could be, not just as an Earth-bender, but as an individual person.

[@br3nnabee]

I think that Tenzen is actually a better mentor because he also has a character arc and learns as much as Korra. He's not perfect and while he knows some things Korra doesn't, he too has so much to learn, which adds to this human character who is also flawed and imperfect.

[@jamescreighton4912]

I don't know if you saw Kung Fu Panda, but I liked Shifu as a mentor in the first film. He is a highly successful mentor to five brilliant students yet fails with Po. He has a vulnerability to him as he still struggles to learn new lessons himself from his own master, Oogway, while also feeling he is beyond such things as a master himself. When his own master inevitably vanishes/leaves him, he is then forced himself to take what he has learned from Oogway and apply it to Po in a new if familiar style of teaching. Shifu plays the double role of student and mentor within the film and it's pretty cool to see! Something I was not expecting from a kids movie with Jack Black anyway...

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Very true! I saw that movie a long time ago, so I wouldn't have thought of him, but that is definitely a great example of playing with that archetype!

[@Amateur_Pianist_472]

James Creighton Kung fu panda is gold.

[@Rosefire]

+ James Creighton Yes thank you for articulating what I liked Shifu so much! It's because he has the role of being a mentor AND a student! I saw hints of arrogance in him when he rebuked all of his students and then we found out he had his own burdens because he lost his finest student. Then he had to learn to think creatively in order to teach Po. Yes, food is a *great* motivator! :)

[@stanconnorstan4266]

I know that everyone hates the Hunger Games but Haymitch. He really has some sort of wisdom, but he is a very flawed character. He doesn't really have much of a chance to teach Katniss or Peeta anything, but he tries his best to help them. I think that he is a great mentor character because he serves his function, but also complex with his own character all the same. Idk. I just like how he was written.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I don't hate the hunger games, and I agree, I like his character a lot!

[@munku121]

Professor Albus Dumbledore is my favorite "Fantasy" mentor. Here are a few reasons why: 1. He learned at age sixteen that he was not to be trusted with power. So, he remained as a teacher at Hogwarts. 2. He mentored not only Harry Potter but thousands of other students throughout his tenor as first Transfiguration teacher and then as Headmaster of Hogwarts. And, 3. He fought both Grindelwald and then Voldemort years later. The latter being a former student of his. Dumbledore is a very well written mentor. One, of MANY, reasons why JK Rowling is my favorite author/writer. JRR Tolkien being a CLOSE second.

[@wrytar7717]

IMO, one of the interesting things about Avatar is that some of Aang's 'mentors' are not much older than he is. For example, Katara, Toph and Zuko all teach him not only the techniques, but also the philosophy behind their kind of bending. And all of them have made experiences they can pass on to him that help him grow. All that happens while they're still growing themselves, for example Katara who hunts down the killer of her mother, but then decides not to take revenge. On the other hand, Zulo passes on some things he has learned from Iro, which in fact makes him a middleman for Iro as a mentor. I think that's a really fascinating construct.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Wrytar I would agree that Aang learns from all of them, but I don’t think they fit the archetype, except for maybe Toph. I just think them learning from each other is great writing!

[@wrytar7717]

That's actually what I meant and why I put mentors in Quotation marks. :) It would have been very easy just to give Aang a classic mentor and be done with it, but they found another, great way to go about it! Oh, and since I didn't say it before: Great Video!

[@starlitbri]

I love Chiron from Percy Jackson because 1) he's excellent 2) his mentoring isn't just limited to Percy 3) his mentored demigods before Percy, so his advice is legit 4) he puts his tail in hair curler things 5) he has no ulterior motives for helping Percy, Annabeth, or the other kids.

[@TodayLifeIsGoood]

In a book I am trying to write, the Mentor is far younger than the MC mentored. He is human(?) while she is an elf, but unlike what one might think he is only 27 while she is 236. Both are highly magical. One might now think, "oh she is sheltered and nice and stuff" while she is very sociable, she has risen to nobility by her own accomplishments, through her own hard work, bravery, ability to inspire, lead, her sound judgement and last bit not least, her cunning. Just to make it clear my mentor figure's personal might far exceeds just about anyone's (he is meant to be overpowered, his achievements are over the top ridiculous and what makes him interesting is what he uses his OP-please-nerf power for and the fact that he is super mysterious and knowledgable and charming and hilarious to boot^^), but he needs someone to challenge something his raw physical and magical might just cannot do. What he needs, is an ambassador for her people in order to break the millennia long separation and isolation of her tribe of Elves and return said tribe into the world stage for many good reasons, one among them so they can be the tie-breaker in a multi-species political world that has essentially deadlocked everyone into their corner's. But that is mostly just backstory and reason to get the plot kickstarted. The book is mostly about discovering and exploring the society of said elven tribe, a bit of social commentary, epic battle and hilarious high-jinx. (for all its humour, the book will be serious, but that doesn't mean the characters have to be all the time, on top of a person's humor giving deep insight into their personality) If I ever get that far, the sequel(s) will deal with the bigger picture.^^ BTW, I am acutely aware that the way I presented the characters now, they sound like total Mary Sues, but the story as written thus far makes them anything but. It starts small scale, she is bantering with her friends while on the job then things go very badly. This is where he steps in, a) showing that he is a force of nature and b) that he is benevolent force; kind, hilarious, competent as a healer and a warrior. What my (then) betareader (she is not anymore, she hasn't got any time for it anymore :( ) said that she really liked how mysterious he was, that he had such a felxibe mind, knew all this stuff and could give so much practical advice and concrete aid, while it being obvious that he had learned it all the hard way, yet he was so physically young. Also, as the story goes on it is supposed to become pretty obvious that he has suffered every step his way and might suffer PTSD (quite badly even) but that he is also very highly functional. And while he might have friends in every echelon of every society, he feels very distant, that he has no home and that he hasn't had a home since the violent death of his own mentor, his family and his whole village before his own eyes at the hand of brutal warlord. A warlord he killed as a consequence of that with a sling (boom, headshot!) while fleeing. The idea is that he will have healed through his prolonged stay in this new society with his new friends that he will inevitably accept them as his new family and home, because he will have bonded with them so much more than he ever wanted to or even dared dream he even still could. (Simply put, he goes native^^) Tl;dr Tropes/Archetypes are tools, use them, play with them, subvert them to entertain, awe and perhaps even teach the readers^^

[@ibidun6985]

Nice! Much about the mentor sounds valuable.

[@julias_pie]

*sees notification* cool, hope she'll include Iroh. *sees him in the thumbnail* bless you. Haha can't wait to watch this.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

How could I NOT include Iroh. He's the best Mentor out there.

[@julias_pie]

Jordan Harvey hah truue. Btw, are you planning on doing more ATLA (or even LOK) related videos in the future? :) enjoyed hearing your thoughts on E1. Also, I heard there's a new series coming by two people (one was an important writer I think) who worked on ATLA (not LOK), can't wait to see what the show's like.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I heard that too! I'm excited to see where it goes :) And yes, I definitely will make another Avatar video at some point!

[@br3nnabee]

@@JordanHarveybooks I think that Tenzen is actually a better mentor because he also has a character arc and learns as much as Korra. He's not perfect and while he knows some things Korra doesn't, he too has so much to learn, which adds to this human character who is also flawed and imperfect.

[@rx500android]

Iroh is the best mentor ever. I friggin' love him.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Oh my gosh, me too!

[@PhoebeWritesFiction]

Mentors with significant character flaws are way more interesting imo. Great trope talk. :)

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I agree sometimes, though I think Iroh is a good example of when that's not the case. I think sometimes knowing of their backstory and past mistakes, as well as how they've grown from them and apply them to teaching others is enough to create depth!

[@methecat776]

One of my favorite mentors is Jim Ellis from the movie Pride, based on the true story set in 1974. It's about the first all African-American swim team, and what I love about Jim is the way he teaches the kids not only how to swim, but also how to be good citizens and the way he protects them and gets some of them, back in school. He doesn't take their BS and admits when he's not being a very good role-model, and he's also the main character, which is a slightly different take on the mentor thing.

[@TheAquamarine4]

You hit it on the tee when you talk about the traditional mentor, because I’ve realized that since forever I never liked those mystical mentors stories, whereas Avatar, to mo is the most brilliant because it tackles the two opposing character sides because no villain should be “cookie cutter” and they also grew up and were raised and avatar is one of the only stories that really tackles character backstories so well

[@jordanalford2825]

Definitely Yoda. He’s incredibly wise but doesn’t pretend to know everything. Always pushes his students to be the best that they can possibly be. Just an amazing teacher.

[@markj6606]

Mr. Miyagi would kick Yoda's ass.

[@Alias_Anybody]

Other tropes like "Luke, I'm your father" or "I was once like you" are novadays insanely common for mentor characters (Eragon for example had BOTH). But I wonder why mentors as (surprise) villains are so rare. Hear me out. It's an excellent source for drama and tragedy (because we know and like the character) as well as logical because mentors have (or at least had) to be powerful/trained in whatever the hero can do to be effective teachers, and fights between worthy opponents are usually the best ones.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

It definitely can be a good twist! I think genuine mentors are great too, but I like that idea :)

[@markj6606]

I would say Wall Street and Training Day are good examples. For sci fi, Star Trek Into Darkness kind of has this character type. I'm likely forgetting a bunch of movies.

[@Alias_Anybody]

Mark J Into Darkness was way too obvious, if you are talking about Marcus.

[@markj6606]

3:10 to Yuma weirdly has a positive evil mentor like character. Eastwood plays severely flawed mentors in Million Dollar Baby and Gran Torino. Miranda is kind of an evil mentor in The Devil Wears Prada.

[@markj6606]

+Alias Anybody Yeah it wasn't that great, but it's the only example I can think of from sci fi unless you count the Jedi in the Star Wars prequels who are bad actors and deluded. I'm sure I'm forgetting something though.

[@hayleyhistorynerd2211]

I adore the mentor archetype. They are often my favorite character. Thank-you so much for a lovely talk about them! Here's some of my favorites Katczinsky All Quiet on the Western Front Obi-Wan Kenobi Star Wars Stilgar the Dune Chronicles Gandalf The Lord of the Rings Iroh Avatar the Last Airbender Jong Jong Avatar the Last Airbender Izumi Curtis Fullmetal Alchemist also a rare and wonderful female example *heart eyes* Benjam Sisko Star Trek Deep Space Nine Bobby Singer Supernatural Tsunade Naruto Hayley ^_^

[@jAv33n]

Hayley Gross I recently read All Quiet On The Western Front and I have to say I do agree with Kat having been the mentor to Paul throughout the book.

[@natascha701]

One of my favorite portrayals of the "failed hero" or extremely flawed mentors is wolverine in the movie Logan (excellent movie if you haven't seen it you should). The relationship between him and Laura is very reluctant in the beginning but it turns into two people who previously had nothing now having only each other. I love how they both learn from each other and grow as people equally rather than the mentor passing on wisdom but not growing much themselves.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I haven't seen it yet, but I want to!

[@markj6606]

It's actually reversed in Logan where the young girl is really the mentor and the old man is the learner who is shaped by the girl.

[@natascha701]

Mark J Yeah I was hesitant about even calling Logan the mentor since the lines are so blurred with that pairing

[@markj6606]

+Natascha Holenstein I agree. I have to see it again. He can't understand her through a lot of the movie, but she has a positive impact on him. Though you might be right actually. He does have a positive impact on her, helping her become a mutant hero, but it's done really subtley which is how role models work in the real world.

[@steamedpunk13]

My favourite mentor figure is Fletcher in Whiplash. He aligns himself with all the typical tropes - he's an old, wise man, he helps out the protagonist, and even has the same goal of producing the next great jazz drummer. And then he throws a chair at the protagonist's head, slaps him, emotionally abuses him, and for the rest of the film becomes an intensely abusive and sadistic antagonist. I think it's a really interesting switch to see, considering the mentor is typically someone that - as you say - provides support to the hero, and is rarely placed in total conflict with the protagonist. It's only at the end of the film that Fletcher's motives are revealed, and his abusive behaviour becomes (potentially) more acceptable to the audience.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I haven't seen whiplash, but I've heard it's amazing!

[@markj6606]

+Jordan Harvey The ending of Whiplash is brilliant. He's an evil mentor like Alonzo in Training Day

[@steamedpunk13]

Jordan Harvey It's a great character study. I learned a lot about writing just from watching it. Fletcher is a great example of an antagonist that honestly believes he's doing the right thing.

[@markj6606]

+Chris Charnley And the movie is pretty ambiguous about right and wrong. The main character is improved by his psycho mentor but at great cost.

[@alinap9009]

My personal favorite mentor has got to be Roy Mustang from Fullmetal Alchemist. He is one of the most human characters in the entire show, both 2003 and Brotherhood (I'll be talking about brotherhood in this comment) but what I like the most about him is the fact that he and Ed learn from each other despite claiming that they hate one another. Roy, who has dealt with incredible losses and has killed people, manages to motivate Ed to moving on after one if the most shocking events of the show. And then, several episodes later Roy, consumed by hatred for the guy who killed his best friend, is called out by Ed and reminded of the fact that he has a goal and that he can't let a loss like that get in the way. It comes full circle and while they don't interact that much in Brotherhood, whenever they do interact their strange relationship is nice to watch. Basically, Roy is a mentor character who is treated like an actual character. He has a motive, he has weaknesses, both physical and mental, and while he is incredibly powerful he is also one of the most compelling characters of the show. But FMA:B has the mentor trope nailed down anyway. Izumi, Hughes, even Hohenheim, every mentor character, no matter how small their role, is incredibly well written because they are all treated as humans. Btw, if anyone who hasnt watched Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood happens to read this comment, maybe try it out. It's one of the best shows i have ever come across, even reaching Avatar the last airbender in quality.

[@lizzychrome7630]

Molly from "Neuromancer" by William Gibson has the interesting combined role of mentor, romantic interest, and sidekick. She and the protagonist Case are basically friends with benefits, but she is the one showing him the ropes (I mean outside the bedroom) and passing on hard-earned wisdom, despite being around the same age as him. I'm also quite fond of the lovable-coward-reluctant-mentor trope, as seen in Hoggle from "Labyrinth," or Phil from "Hercules" (well, Phil's *far* from a coward, but he's not big on being a "hero" either). As a "delayed" adult used to interacting with younger people who are far more intelligent and mature than myself, I find those characters uncomfortably/hilariously identifiable.

[@SGRev1]

Stargate SG-1 also did a good job with multiple mentors for its main characters. First there's General Hammond, who is Col. Jack O'Neill's superior officer and the voice of reason to SG-1, inspiring values of teamwork and cooperation into them. But they also have Master Bra'tac, who has been Teal'c's mentor for many years and serves as a guide for SG-1 whenever they're dealing with the Goa'uld. To an extent, Teal'c himself is kind of a mentor as well, as he often informs his teammates in SG-1 on very valuable information about the Goa'uld during their missions.

[@jackinthebox1993]

This is the first time I'm seeing one of videos and I'm SUPER into writing advice videos, but I can honestly tell you, you did an awesome job, and sounded like you REALLY knew what you were talking about. Great job! However I would've also love to see an examination of double-crossing mentors that hide their dark side from their students, like with Palpatine and Darth Vader, or Ra's Al Ghul and Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins.

[@DRAWDAILYchannel]

Genkai from Yu Yu Hakusho, was one of my 3 favorite mentors. She was an old but powerful woman with pink hair who could transform into a beautiful young woman. She trained the main character Yusuke to help him defeat a powerful demon. Her name meant "sea of apparitions"

[@futurestoryteller]

HAHAHA! WTF!? From about 1:56 through 3:56 you perfectly describe Auron from Final Fantasy X. - Of course a lot of other characters too, but I was checking off the boxes and I was very amused by the end - the guy easily hits every bullet point. I find it interesting that you mentioned Alfred from Batman, because the minute I saw this topic I was reflecting on how much I think of Alfred as an interesting example of this trope _never quite materializing,_ out of a seemingly natural state. There are countless iterations of Batman and his world, but I'm often struck by how infrequently Alfred is depicted with any wisdom or insight into Bruce's exploits, and sometimes how unacknowledged his status as his legal guardian goes. There are shades of both attributes in Christopher Nolan's trilogy, but I don't know that he doesn't get equal parts wisdom and guidance from all other characters like Rachel, or Harvey Dent. And if you've watched the animated series, or played the Arkham games - both of which get high praise from most comic fans for their accuracy to the medium - I would say Alfred is usually depicted as an enabler. Even in Nolan's trilogy, he's more enabler than mentor. Stepping in very rarely to impart wisdom in two of the three movies. Ra's is the mentor in Batman Begins. From then on Bruce is usually the one with the big ideas, and Alfred goes along until he can't handle what it does to Bruce anymore. It's not uncommon for lower tier writers to straight up forget that Alfred isn't just "hired help." I mentioned to you how awful Gotham is? In one episode a 12-year-old Bruce Wayne fires Alfred _and he leaves!!!_ Do these writers even know what a legal guardian is!? Sorry for the ramble. This was a fun and interesting video. I think the reason there are so many mentors in Avatar is because, in many ways, at its core, it is a show about growth and learning. Within the premise itself Aang must find a master of all four elements. With that said, final shout-out to Iroh from Avatar, the greatest mentor of all time. He didn't just mentor an antagonist, or turn one into a protagonist, he's a mentor that shaped a student into a mentor, for a student who _also_ mentored the student who became his mentor. =p That is to say both Aang and Iroh are credited with making Zuko into a better person, by showing him compassion and the error of his ways. In doing so they shape him into a leader, who could - among other things - successfully teach Aang firebending. It's really complex stuff, and that's why it's my favorite. 😃

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I guess I shouldn't have necessarily used Alfred because there are so many iterations of Batman stories, and it definitely doesn't apply to all of them, nor am I familiar with all of them. I was definitely thinking of the Nolan films when I mentioned it. As far as Avatar, you HAVE to watch this brilliant video if you haven't already: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZ2tlJmPrN2An8k It really shows off how amazing Iroh is as a mentor.

[@ahnifollett]

I mean, Auron is a mentor figure. He's a great mentor figure and I absolutely adore him.

[@futurestoryteller]

@Jordan (How come I never get notifications when you reply, anyway?) I have seen that video! I was going to recommend one to you, as a trade off, but I couldn't find it. I still haven't watched _your_ video on Airbender, after going through the backlog. - "Save the best for last" kinda thing, so I haven't gotten around to it quite yet. I've never done a video essay, but I wanted to do a fanvid on the series awhile back... I got copyright trolled 😒 @Ahni Of course, my all time favorite Final Fantasy character, hands down. Although I haven't played the Legendary VI... or some of the newer ones.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

When I first uploaded mine, it got copyright claimed too, which is why I was forced to put in a bunch of pictures of the avatar logo between clips ._.

[@a.j.torres3131]

Lol so great news, I read the first chapter of Percy Jackson when I was at Barnes and Nobles the other day and I really liked it. Some of the descriptions were definitely something but then I remembered Harry Potter has similar descriptions lol. Anyway, out of the few books I've read I do like Gandalf from LOTR, Brom from Inheritance, Uncle Iro from ATLA(Anime), and Obi Wan Kenobi from Star Wars(Movie). I kind of feel like there are quite a lot of YA books trying to do away with mentor roles to go for the independence and self taught approach, because I haven't seen them lately, at least from the ones I've read.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

A.J. Torres that’s true actually, I hadn’t really thought about that!

[@a.j.torres3131]

Oh god I thought it was just me or something lol. At the moment I don't see it as a bad thing but I also don't see it as a good thing as some books will have the main protagonist do something really stupid(a lot) and sometimes have consequences. I only say sometimes because I feel when they do get reprimanded it doesn't really seem life threatening or life changing. This could also just be me and not reading enough books lol.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

A.J. Torres No, I think you make an interesting point!

[@a.j.torres3131]

Thank you :)

[@cyrokin965]

Not sure if this character counts, exactly, but Professor Max Arturo in the sci-fi show Sliders seem to be an interesting take on this archetype. Arturo is a man that protagonist Quinn Mallory looks up to a great deal--- admires him, respects him. And Arturo delivers key wisdom to the other Sliders in numerous episodes. The interesting part about him though--- is that Quinn is actually more of a genius than he is, and Arturo resents this in his pride, despite how he loves Quinn as a student--- and a son, later on. Both characters teach one another something. The student understands the subject the master teaches far better than he does, yet the student admires the master and sees him as a father figure, not considering himself better than the master. Their relationship was very well-written.

[@shayan6291]

One of my favourite examples of this has to be Tenzin from legend of Korra. While I enjoyed it was less than the last airbender Tenzins character is really the only reason I kept on watching. Unlike Iroh (who I adore btw) Tenzin didn't have this all knowing wisdom about him. He constantly got frustrated with Korra and had his own struggle with living up to his father's legacy and preserving the peace he created. It made for an interesting dynamic between them and it made his character more real in a sense. I would have been easy to make him another Iroh but I'm glad they showed another side to this dynamic

[@NotaBizarreJoJo]

I love these Trope Talk videos.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thanks! I'm glad :)

[@Rosefire]

As soon as you said "Cobra Kai" I got a huge silly grin on my face. The theme I see in the show is "flipping the script" where the students have become mentors and continue to clash with each other based on the values they were raised. I found it fascinating that Johnny was a bully in "The Karate Kid" but in "Cobra Kai" he taught kids to stand up to bullies. Whether or not those kids become bullies themselves is yet to be seen, which is why I find the show so fascinating because we have no idea how things are going to turn out. Daniel may be the antagonist of season one but I didn't see any of the main characters as "villains" or "bad guys"; he and Johnny each have their positive and negative qualities. Another contemporary mentor I like is Kanan Jarrus in the animated Star Wars "Rebels" series. His own Jedi training was cut short when he was a teenager so as an adult, Kanan has concerns when he takes on Ezra Bridger as his apprentice. But he becomes the father figure that Ezra desperately needs and without realizing it, Kanan grows stronger in the Force alongside his student. After losing his sight Kanan becomes a recluse and distances himself from his family but he overcomes his insecurities. I've noticed from the show's animation how Kanan starts off as more of a cocky cowboy-ish person but as the show goes on, his speech patterns and movements are calmer and more dignified, signifying the Jedi Knight he has become. A nod to classic Kung Fu films of the 70's is Pei Mei who instructs the Bride in "Kill Bill". She's an adequate fighter but he beats her down, humiliates her, and laughs while she begs for mercy because he cannot each an arrogant student. Once she knows her place, he puts her through grueling work that pushes the Bride to her limits. But as the audience we realize that everything he teaches her is a weapon she uses on her quest for vengeance...even punching her way out of an airtight coffin.

[@kayfaraday4803]

Love your trope talks. I never really considered whether or not I like mentor figures being included before and I think I lean towards yes. It does depend on the type of mentor, I tend to like the helpful but a little mysterious type, someone who genuinely seems to want the hero to grow and do well. I'm also okay with them having ulterior motives or betraying the hero so long as their relationship is established enough so it actually matters. I recently read a couple of books where I hated the mentors in them. I didn't really like the teachers in Sufficiently Advanced Magic - none of them actually seemed like they liked teaching or having students that were eager to go beyond what they were being taught. Then there was Blackbird in Sixty-One Nails. I was really enjoying this older woman being a mentor figure for the main character, showing him around the faerie world, saving his ass from time to time. They're on the run and she glamours herself to look younger, he's suddenly interested in her, they bang, and from that one time she gets pregnant. Totally ruined the book for me.

[@wangkong905]

Ahhhh you reminded me that I still need to buy the Ender's Game books. I have a mentor in the story I'm writing and this gave me a few things to think about. I really like the mentor-like characters. They always hold a special place in my heart. I love these trope talk videos by the way!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I agree, a good mentor character can be really special -- especially in coming of age or young adult stories!

[@hedgehogsonic11]

My favorite mentor has to be Mogget in Sabriel. The form he takes is completely unusual for a mentor character, being a cat, and he's very antagonistic towards the main characters, and is often limited by magic in his own ability to teach Sabriel. There's often serious tension present with him, as he's only helping Sabriel because he's bound to, and if free, can and would kill her in a heartbeat, but you still end up feeling a great amount of sentiment for him. He's a know-it- all bastard and frankly, I didn't even fully realize he was a mentor until long after I closed the book.

[@eleanorthereader]

YES YES YES YES YES to the mere mention of Cobra Kai!! Everyone needs to have watched this, even if you haven't seen the original movies. (Although you should do that!) With Cobra Kai, if you do a review I would argue there's no antagonist in this reboot, just differing points of view based off Daniel and Johnny's contrasting childhoods:) I honestly think Cobra Kai is the best series of 2018 so far, it's nice to hear about it from a Booktuber not just the movie review channels:)

[@DrEllert]

What is this? Everytime I'm gonna write something for my group you'll upload a video about it? Next you'll tell me you have a video on the differences between dramatic conflict and epic-fantasy conflict. Anyway nice video! I wrote to my group about how G.R.R. Martin used this trope in A Song of Ice and Fire. Each book Daenerys has a different mentor and unbeknowingly she betrays them all. In the first it was Khal Drogo; In the second it was Xaro Xohan Daxos; In the third it was Barristan Selmy (under the name Arstan); In the fifth it was Hizdahr zo Loraq. Just my thoughts.

[@DRAWDAILYchannel]

Yeah it does seem like the mentor dies every single story I can't even think of one that falls under the genre fantasy that doesn't. Genkai, Jiraiya, Gandalf, Dumbledore, Allmight, everyone...well except for Master Roshi.

[@KierTheScrivener]

I for some reason never written a mentor in any of my books. Iroh is my favourite!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Myn Kobayashi maybe you have without realizing it!

[@KierTheScrivener]

Jordan Harvey haha I've analyzed the heck out of my fiction. And I love Joseph Campbell

[@myweakness1883]

There's something about the mentor character that I really enjoy and find them even more interesting than the hero haha :D

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I think it depends! Sometimes they can be really flat and "perfect" which to me is pretty dull, but sometimes, when given a solid backstory, it's fascinating to see how they've made mistakes and grown wise from them!

[@raygordonteacheschess5501]

Buttermaker from the Bad News Bears (1976)

[@edwardsimson6559]

Hi Jordan Harvey, could you do a review of Demain by Herman plz

[@markj6606]

What about the evil mentor like Alonzo in training day?

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I haven't seen it!

[@markj6606]

+Jordan Harvey It's a good crime movie. The mentor character role is completely reversed. Alonzo has a negative influence on the main character, Ethan Hawke. Denzel Washington is dynamite in it. Oh I forgot about the 80s movie Wall Street! It's maybe the best example of the evil mentor character, and Training Day must have been heavily influenced by it. There's something sadly true to life about this character type.

[@NOONE00001]

Mickey from the Rocky films and Rocky himself on the Creed Movie is a good mentor for me?

[@markj6606]

Mickey and Miyagi have got to be the most likable mentor characters.

[@markj6606]

Mickey was used really well in Rocky 3. Shimada in Seven Samurai is also really good.

[@TheGokusons]

hi. How much an independent book, about 350 pages, in the Amazon should cost if it is the author's first? Nice video btw.

[@santanasg8445]

I'm not really a huge fan of the mentor, I think, personally, it shows me kind of the generic hero's journey, to which I'm kind of tired of- I like storie that- as most base on the hero's journey, do not represent it too literal, specially with new stories. I think I must had consumed a non-so-generic mentor in a story that I wasn't super aware of! For me, those are the kinds of mentor's character that I enjoy the most :)

[@waltermanson999]

I love me some trope talk !

[@DaveDeSarno]

Karate Kid is my favorite movie and I loved the Cobra Kai series. I thought Zabka was fantastic! I'd love to hear a review on your channel.

[@markj6606]

No mercy!

[@afoninja121]

Can you think of any mentor/love interest character off the top of your head

[@NOONE00001]

Love your videos !!!! Greetings from the Philippines.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thank you!!

[@NOONE00001]

Really like how your video turn into a semi cobra kai review video hahaha And i love Cobra Kai too.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Haha, I'm not sorry. That show is SO good.

[@NOONE00001]

Yeah and one of my favorite part of the show is when Johnny is telling the Karate Kid movie in his Perspective.

[@brotherjf7127]

What about evil or criminal mentor?

[@julioacceus253]

Did you check out the Elric Series?

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I haven't yet!

[@guilherme5094]

Great video.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thanks!

[@inventers2]

I felt like Ra's Al Ghul in batman begins was sort of a mentor to bruce for a quarter of the movie but then their morals didn't align

[@imbored-4052]

Love you so much! You're really pretty! (:

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thanks!

[@nuny4592]

Cobra Kai has emotional baggage. At least it did for me :) *Strike First* *Strike Hard* *No Mercy!* *ROAAARR!!*

[@kaidraoe7044]

have u watched movie "V for Vendetta" or read the book of it? the story has a different kind of mentor which is V who teaches eve in a very different way.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

True! I've seen the movie, and yeah, that's a great example of a non-conventional mentor!!

[@RKGold]

Bean > Ender

[@caitlinwoods2796]

Hello! :0

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Hi :)