The Real Problem With Stakes In Dragon Ball Isn’t What You Think

[@MallyG-r4t]

It’s hilarious how different these answers would be outside of this community. Shows how diverse the overall fandom is

[@LisaEverz]

There’s no feasible reason why Tien shouldn’t be stronger than what he is when the series itself hints to that (holding off Cell, saving Gohan from Buu, teaming with Goku against Gohan/Piccolo)

[@BiggaVeli-u5j]

🎯

[@DjPrimeVideos]

The thing is...it IS inefficiency that doesn't make him stronger. He's either training himself, training Chiaotzu or training other people, and tien is so strong that he's not gaining anything from it. Meanwhile Krillin can crawl in bed with 18 and the next day he has a stamina increase

[@markmeeky2651]

@@DjPrimeVideos Nah it's not inefficiency lmao, it's just clear that they just don't like the character lmao. Tien was on par with Goku on his debut basically, then they basically just try to write him out of the show with him saying "You guys will basically never see me again", like what? Also had a higher power level than Krillin in the Saiyan Saga, was shown to make it faster to King Kai than Goku only for him to get folded by ROSHI of all characters as well as Gohan. ROSHI, a character which Tien was basically stronger than in his debut, was stated to have given up on martial arts because future generation had it. Meanwhile Tien trains for the Saiyans with Kami, trained with King Kai, trained for the Androids and Cell. You would think of Roshi was really "training in secret" he would have at least contributed during these arcs lmao. It literally, and I mean literally makes zero sense to how weak they portray him to be in Super. But I mean, Super has very questionable writing, I mean look at frieza for example, his training partner was extremely weak in comparison. What benefit is having a fodder sparing partner lmao. So if we were to use the inefficiency excuse, How is Frieza so strong when his training partner Tagoma got effortlessly one shotted by Vegeta. The real reason is just that's just how it is written, whether it makes sense or not.

[@ZYaKnoe249]

@@markmeeky2651bingo

[@LisaEverz]

@@DjPrimeVideosand.. that’s the problem 😂

[@svturn987]

2:18 don't forget the fact that Goku had an ENTIRE SERIES worth of fights before Gohan and Vegeta were even introduced as characters.

[@TribalCheif-ku4vn]

It’s not even fair

[@mrhopadopalus]

Yeah but people purposely skip DB so they wouldn't know

[@chunkysaurus785]

That’s why I picked him

[@CutWat]

if he specified only fights after og dragon ball it could've been closer

[@crispybutters3596]

I feel like these results would be different if they were from KZbin polls

[@MallyG-r4t]

Oh 100%

[@IAmGrootFrom63rd]

Outside of Question 8, every answer aligns with how that chat and most of Sage’s subs think.

[@kaienglish271]

I don’t want Super animated again until the DB community learns to read and understand characters. It will be a dark day when Goku gives Moro a senzu bean is animated

[@BigBwithWs]

I know it’s in character for Goku I still don’t like it tho

[@iBsaiyan]

Man😭💯

[@mastergod101]

Well my friend, with your logic the manga ain't never getting animated 😂

[@fabiosonhandogrande1697]

Don't a bunch of manga people hate that moment already? That fact's not exactly good, but I know it

[@svturn987]

These casuals don't deserve Super animated. DB fans need to learn how to READ!

[@XoxoKawaiiGirl]

I really loved GT except the 17 arc, but I also really loved super. Idk all the dragon ball series were good to me with their ups and downs, but some of the movies were just straight horrible.

[@ZYaKnoe249]

@4:40: I feel like your chat and fans in general are very pro DBS. In most other polls I see, I generally see Z Broly win.

[@TSO_Sage]

keep telling y’all i have… a community 😂

[@IAmGrootFrom63rd]

Yeah, anything “not canon” is bad

[@TribalCheif-ku4vn]

It’s funny because DBS Broly is essentially a one for one character with a slightly better backstory

[@zayakami1123]

​@TribalCheif-ku4vn slightly better is crazy, Super Broly has a infinity better backstory then I have trauma flashbacks from Goku crying next to me

[@kewpiesensei]

@@IAmGrootFrom63rdsaid nobody ever 😂

[@KingBongHogger]

Bulma vs Gero in an intelligence competition is hard to call. Is Bulma that much smarter or does she just have near infinite resources to throw at a problem until she solves it? Gero did what he did in the middle of the mountains with what he could scavenge/develop from the RR Army base. If given equal resources and time, it would be a lot closer than a lot of people think.

[@lynchiestlynch5442]

Counter point, bulma discovered time travel in the apocalyptic future with a box of scraps.

[@xenogale]

​@@lynchiestlynch5442big counter ngl

[@SubZer00fucksgiven]

Bulma literally makes a remote from scratch!? Even fixed and removed the bomb from 16. Imagine if Bulma made android/mech Goku or Vegeta... Are you afraid?😂

[@mmaaoorr]

Tien is literally the only human with a reasonable way to become relevant. His leniage is known to have divine power which was locked away from him because he studied under the crane school. He literally has potential for god ki

[@jace_519]

dragon balls literally made it so buu blowing up the planet didnt matter at all

Exactly

[@AKAWalker]

43:26 Dear Mon... in chat: The fuck???

[@TribalCheif-ku4vn]

That’s his twitch chat. Looney mfs kol

[@5001Fergies]

oh nah these twitch chat dudes need to go back to first grade aint no way i just read that 😭

[@telldetruth9259]

Reading Sage’s twitch chat 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫. No way the majority there is over the age of 15

[@TSO_Sage]

@@telldetruth9259 i’ve asked age several times most are 20-24

[@GeechieOG]

Nigga we grown as shit niggas just stupid tap in twin

[@IllMatic97]

​@@GeechieOG stop lying foo, we know you still in highschool

[@ZYaKnoe249]

@@TSO_Sagetheyre lying lmaooooo

[@PeterStone-hy6ir]

@@TSO_Sagecalling cap lol

[@TribalCheif-ku4vn]

Gogeta always had a cooler aura than Vegito. He’s essentially Goku with Vegeta’s seriousness at times

[@ihatehearts]

cant beat soul punisher in terms of coolness

[@BiggaVeli-u5j]

I love Bulma but she shouldnt have won by THAT much

[@Dgriddle]

1:03 a true content creator, mastering the “yoink and twist”

[@M4ngoMutiny]

Super Vegito is what carries him so hard, I think his swords are infinitely cooler than pocket sand… But Gogeta also is able to have more wild moves because he was introduced in a movie which had more budget, and wasn’t connected to the main plot.

[@SeigleDZay]

49:09 Gohan is half the age of Goku vegeta and broly and is just as strong if not stronger. With bad training habits . Gohan by far has the most potential

[@ldonald3211]

GT is dog shit. It was so dog shit that Toriyama rebooted it with Daima as his last will and testament.

[@Alienldr]

39:50 people forget that the next time we saw Gogeta was in GT. Not in Broly. He had the same issues as Vegito, but he was universally saw as the strongest character in the franchise in 2 decades because he was fucking ssj4 Gogeta. People bring up canon and that's why gt doesn't count, but still include janemba's fight, despite that being just as canon as gt

[@Kirbing0]

3:19 "Vegeta better fighter martial artist Goku just has plot armor lol" that take is straight ASS

[@Kirbing0]

His takes in general just suck this mf said "Cell did nothing but cry" he did NOT watch the anime Zamasu was wailing in the Vegito fight

[@Dontpayattention88]

27:47 I can’t believe this Nappa love. Your the only person I ever heard this from

[@thatngafr]

name me 3 things the ginyu force did as a group

[@thatngafr]

name me a good, meaningful, moment from every memeber of the ginyu force and then tell me that nappa didnt punch a mans BARE ARM OFF, made his mans off himself, almost killed gohan and krillin, killed piccolo, and wouldve boxed with goku if he wasnt such a hothead

[@Dontpayattention88]

@@thatngafr why do I have to separate them instead of considering them as a team. Ginyu taking goku body. Then being a consistent gag character for maybe 100 episodes after losing his fight is better than anything Nappa ever did

[@thatngafr]

@@Dontpayattention88 horrible argument

[@thatngafr]

@@Dontpayattention88 u named me one thing the CAPTAIN did😭

[@imaelitehuman4786]

21:17 the only reason I’d say manga is because if we got the anime and it stopped where the manga currently is everyone would be pissed. Imagine we see black frieza ultra ego and true ultra instinct and then the story just ends right there on that MASSIVE cliffhanger leaving so many things unfinished

[@Lokoclutch98]

i don't disagree with you having nappa over the ginyu force in terms of being henchman. we jus see more of nappa then the ginyu force. yea 5 is bigger then 1 but 1 has like, what, 3 times amount of screen time then 5? However, i will say this: nappa, to me, seems more of a dumb brute while the ginyu focre. Like he's a seasoned veteran warrior, decades of experience and he has to be told to calm down in the middle of a fight? to me, thats a bad henchman

[@jg5004]

The only reason why Gogeta was chosen to be the better fusion is bc he was in the Broly movie. If Gogeta was in the Zamasu arc and Vegito was in the Broly movie, Vegito would be chose.

[@dontejackson4886]

Dude did not cook with that dragon ball argument, sayin saga: dragonball‘s used to wish back Goku, freezer saga: dragonball‘s used to wish everyone off from a dying planet AND making a new planet for them. Cell saga: wishing everyone that was killed by cell back to life. Buu saga: wishing earth in its inhabitants back to life and give Goku enough energy to defeat Buu. Funny fact is it gets worse in super lol😂 we had a timeline (future trunks) where the dragonballs were useless/dead and we all know how that turned out

[@IAmTheSupremeX.]

If you separate the Androids and Cell then you might as well just call Majin Vegeta, Gas and Black Frieza their own arcs, And then all of the villains on Namek are their own arcs too.

[@SaiyanSavag3]

It’s easier to have the best moments and fights when the show is built around you. Any questions with goku involved he should win 99% of the time.

[@dragaleoreforged3999]

Goku vs Kefla was way better than Goku vs cell but both of them are fucking amazing

[@PeterStone-hy6ir]

@9:00 the poll is irrelevant. Your subs/chat hate one and blindly love the other.

[@thatngafr]

no gt is just bad man

[@arpadszabo661]

This question always have the same result everywhere

[@ZYaKnoe249]

@@arpadszabo661it literally doesn’t. Hence his point.

[@PeterStone-hy6ir]

@@ZYaKnoe249 thank you. it’s these same two weirdos lol

[@Alienldr]

That's a good poll. Lol I'd rather have more manga because i like the story better than the flashy effects. I'd rather see what they do with Black Frieza. It would be cool to see him arrive and kill Gas in the anime, but i think ending it there would be worse than seeing it animated

[@GelusYT]

The only reason I say animate moro and granola over continue manga is because if they dont get animated, characters and forms will never appear in the games because of legal hooplah.

[@svturn987]

Goku V Kefla is an amazing fight. One of the best fights in the series. I don't get how ppl disagree with that. I think DB fans just don't like kefla lol

[@minicle426]

Rule 34 likes her. >_>

[@thesleeprealm2182]

you shouldve made it nappa vs zarbon cuz the way the ginyu force move is more like friezas hitmen/mercenaries than henchman because he had to call them in rather than them being by his side like a hench men would be or just make this a side villian cat.

[@spritvio639]

Question 12 is pretty self-explanatory. For as mixed as the manga is, it would be better to get bew stories than just have what we have now animated. The manga needs to redeem itself too. We've had like 1 good chapter in 2 years. We can't let it end like this lol.

[@Warlord-dc5un]

Despite how bad ROF is, it still had such a big impact in the story of Super. Without the resurrection of Frieza there would be no Golden or Black Frieza, he wouldn't be of use in the T.O.P arc and most likely wouldn't be chosen either. No Broly either without Frieza since the whole reason Broly was found was because of the Frieza force, then Frieza being the catalyst for Broly going ssj. Whis first hints of Ultra Instinct was in ROF, Blue despite not being the most liked form it still was introduced in ROF. I literally can't remember what any of the events in the Super 17 actually impacts after its arc except from Piccolo being stuck in Hell, I can't remember if Krillin gets resurrected by the dragonballs but I think he does. But who knows maybe because I haven't revisited the Super 17 arc in ages

[@Pioxys]

"I would personally feel sad if Toriyama passed, and we never got another story from Dragonball. It would be like DAMN, Toriyama passed, and we didn't even tried." *YO FOR REAL!* This is going to spark up the "Let it rest. It will never be the same" crowd, but we at least need to give it *A CHANCE.* It was painful to hear about the passing of Berserk's creator, but man I've been getting excited to see them pick up where he left off. With Toriyama, *WE LITERALLY HAVE HIS SUCCESSOR, TOYOTARO.* (As well as Tori's editors who goes way back) I get the writing & humor won't be the same as the king, but to not attempt to carry on that legacy is insane. All while having *AMAZING* fan works saying this is what they want more from Dragonball??? Or say if we do let "Dragonball rest." Those same people are going to look at the fan works years later and go "Man I miss Dragonball." Or "Damn, I wish Dragonball can come back." (No pun intended) I AT LEAST want to see where Toyotaro goes with it.

[@bullphrogva1804]

for Q 5, you should follow it up with the Saiyan Arc and Namek arc. Are they the same arc or two different arcs?

[@dralx2042]

42:57 Vegeta saying he'll never fight again cuz Goku died is inpresidentes amounts of glaze, ngl😭😭

[@onewingedangel1518]

Toriyama confirmed during the Broly movie release that Gogeta and Vegito are equal in strength.

[@pyrothefiredemon]

And the real hot take is that this is out it should be. Both are cool, and both should be equally strong so that war between the fans can end

[@onewingedangel1518]

@ it’s confirmed to be this way but not many people know. it just makes more sense anyway why would one fusion just be stronger than the other

[@M4ngoMutiny]

The potential question is so fair for Broly because Gohan got his potential unlocked twice… Also Broly has trained SIGNIFICANTLY less than Gohan and is already at fucking Gogeta level.

[@Shadow-yx1fo]

i mean even in most games i think they have always been seperated for the cell/android saga, tho i have personally always seen them as being the same

[@Toothpi_ck]

Goku vs. Kale and Caulifla/Kefla is lowkey my favorite Dragon Ball fight oat

[@JessicaCummings-z4p]

You're doing a fantastic job! Could you help me with something unrelated: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). Could you explain how to move them to Binance?

[@M4ngoMutiny]

I don’t know, I like Beerus’ design more, his moves are more visually appealing, he was much more fun as an antagonist. So even though he may not have as many cool moments he feels a lot better as an antagonist. Unlike Jiren who just feels like a wall with a collection of cool moments to distract you from the fact that Hit, Kefla, Toppo, or basically any other major antagonist in T.O.P is more interesting. It also doesn’t help that Jiren doesn’t have as clear cut motives as Beerus, Beerus wanted to find someone who he could fight for fun… Jiren wanted to win because he had to…

[@juicemaneoj]

og dragon ball is alot more like fleshed out and the world is more included.. i feel like in dragon ball it became more strictly fighting rather then world building.. they expand in dbz as well but idk how to articulate what i mean exactly hopefully yall feel meh

[@twill4084]

I promise you Sage & LKIAB is at its best when they’re yapping its natural & uncut the senzu bean rant was great

[@heavenlysenju9948]

Create a poll to see how many people actually watched GT

[@TheDamonRs]

The earth dragonballs feel nerfed in super to the point where it feels like a 50/50 whether shenron can do what is needed 😅 senzu beans though!? Outside of gokus heart attack, always work, and come in infinite supply aslong as korin and bean daddy is around, senzu beans OP.

[@spritvio639]

I think GT and Super are about the same level, but for different reasons. GT to me is just Ok mostly. But Super is just all over the place, abd I still feel that way with the manga. It has highs higher than than anything in GT, but also has lows lower.

[@leatherhead333]

About the dragonballs vs senzu bit. Heres the thing. When you see a pattern in how a story is written you can start to call the bluff of the author when they try to make tension in certain situations. The dragonballs have been off the table a few times sure but at the end of the day they get used in EVERY SINGLE ARC of Z. So by the second time it happens you stop falling for the "Oh no we can't use the dragonballs" because Toriyama unfortunately doesn't like killing off characters for good. You KNOW they are going to get used if someone important dies. It's literally just a matter of when. 16 was the only notable character death from the good guys side because he literally can't be resurrected since he has no soul. Which gives his sacrifice to fire up Gohan so much weight because he knew his existence was going to disappear forever. Super did improve on this by at least making the methods of saving everyone different (Whis's rewind) but the final arc still relies on the dragonball balls. So when you see the universes get erased it literally means nothing because we KNOW that they will be wished back for sure. You make a good argument with senzus but I still give dragonballs the slight edge.

[@smartcurry]

I think as time goes on the dragon balls are getting way more busted than zensu’s bcuz now we’re seeing more dragon balls in different realms n planets a lot of other places actually have way less than earth but can still do shit as wild as earths dragon balls n on top of that they can be upgraded to be even crazier like at least wit zensu beans niggas can still very much die even after taking one in the heat of the moment but dragon balls can literally take long lasting consequences from a arc n just say nope didn’t happen so in modern dragon ball I’d say dragon balls are more busted cuz without em we don’t get super saiyan god, frieza doesn’t comeback in ROF, zamasu doesn’t fuck up the future, universe 6 n TOP doesn’t happen, broly doesn’t live etc

[@quelqunx7470]

Instead of fighting with a metal plate in your jaw, you fight with a senzu bean in your mouth 😂 Oh yeah, call me Jon Jon.

[@vivid_vibesss7456]

Question 12: I would want the manga to continue just because it was never finished, ending dragon ball with Frieza pub stomping goku and vegeta then leaving would not feel right, I don’t even care if they end it in the black frieza arc as long as dragon ball gets a definitive end im cool

[@TheDamonRs]

I am a zamasu enjoyer but cell is in 99.99999% including mine top 3 villains. Zamasu is a top 10 villain for me, but cell is on another level as a villain in general.

[@Petroness]

I feel like the Ginyu Force argument only applies if you take TFS out of the argument. TFS Nappa clears

[@DBZFANX1000]

I always disagreed with the argument that dragon ball has no stakes because dragon ball's. This logic is flawed for a few reasons in my opinon 1. dragon ball's aren't always used by the main characters sometimes they aren't useable because someobody else used them like a villian. 2. for dragon ball's you have to be alive people always say oh you can just revive whatever right but its like if everyone dies nobody is getting to gather anything. 3. the planet gets destroyed no dragon ball's somebody dies who is the creator and then no dragon ball's we seen dragon ball's get effectively deleted multiple times. King piccolo even killed shenron so clearly thats also possibility.

[@arpadszabo661]

Whis being part of the series, willing to just rewind time, harms the stakes way more than the senzu bean and dragon balls combined ever since RoF ngl.

[@mbayadji]

I think RATIO wise, Gohan has better fights than Goku. What I mean by this, is that Gohan's fights on AVERAGE are better than Goku's. Just because Goku has a lot more "bad" fights than Gohan has. Goku's bad fights are countless, especially the ones (outside of Hit, Kefla and Jiren) in both tournaments in DBS. I think his BEST fight was him vs Broly. Now lets look at Gohan's "bad" fights....the only one I can recall was ressurection F. Outside of that almost all of his fights were high quality. Bojack, DBS super hero, vs Cell and Buu. Although Manga wise Goku might take it.

[@mbayadji]

Nobody wanted to see Goku vs Botamo or etc.

[@Thousandths.]

Taxing Goku for having more fights is just insane. Also, mentioning ONLY Goku's super fights while ignoring all his fights in Z and OG dragonball. cmon, gang yk what you're doing. The convo just isn't close. Most of the Gohan fights you mentioned are more moments than "good" fights, they're one-sided beat down. The only one I'd give you in the buu fight. There's no reason for this "Ratio-wise" thing, just creating a criteria for gohan to win. I could really just broil him having fewer fights to him slacking off and being too weak to fight btw. Also bojack bro...really.

[@mbayadji]

@Thousandths. Both of them don't really have any crazy bad fights in Z (outside of maybe the Movies, and Goku vs Yakon). Ratio wise is also a very fair criteria, since the question is dumb otherwise, whoever has more fights and screen time would always win. As for being one sided beatdowns...no? What? Yes they BECAME one sided beatdowns (still, not really outside of Cell max. Even regular cell was a long fight AFTER Gohan went ssj2) but they were still fights for a long time before the transformations. And moments are what make a fight, they are what you remember. To be honest, Gohan vs Lavender was a better fight than Goku vs Bergamo but people only remember the ladder because of Goku revealing his God Ki to the other universes. Same with Goku vs Hyrudegarn, people ONLY remember it because of the Dragon fist and ssj3, wasn't that crazy of a fight (at least on Goku's section).

[@mbayadji]

@@Thousandths. ^ first @ didn't work for some reason

[@Thousandths.]

​@mbayadji Think that's the whole point of the poll to be a landslide win for goku since it's just true. I mostly agree with what you're saying it's just the same argument. By design, gohan will win the ratio wise criteria by having much fewer fights than goku. See for me people will use moments (just like you've shown in the example with bergamo and lavender) to overrate how good a fight was in terms of choreography, animation, and story-telling. I'd say the Cell arc has this problem. Gohan vs Cell peaked MUCH higher than Goku vs Cell did, but Goku vs Cell is just a better fight imo. Also it's just mickey in general cause I both of us know how the dragon ball community thinks 😭 like these mfs will say Goku vs Vegeta I'd the best fight in the show but then count it only as a goku fight. (Also for the one sided beat down convo I won't argue that, since I'm going off of memory. I'd have to rewatch the show to see if I agree or not) Good convo tho

[@deathrhino9256]

I saw dbz then found out about dragonball. Then I found out about the manga lol. Fun adventure

[@_WiZ420]

Without Senzu Beans, we don't get near death scenarios back-to-back. Without Dragon Balls, we don't get revives; without near death scenarios and revives, the show dynamic would alter drastically lol I absolutely value them both for the series as a whole, but Senzu Beans DEFINITELY have saved lives more often...

[@_WiZ420]

There is a decent argument for healing techniques, but that ties to killing your white mage lol your white mage would often be someone who makes dragon balls

[@M4ngoMutiny]

My hot take is that OG DB is better because I actually love later OG more than later DBZ…

[@snoopystock6928]

To me, if you animate the manga, you'll be satisfying both sides. If you only continue the manga then anime only people either won't read it or are forced to read the manga which plenty of people don't wanna do.

[@spritvio639]

When it comes to Vegito vs Gogeta, I see why Gogeta wins most of the time. Vegito got done dirty in Super while Gogeta practicality was treated like royalty. I 100% believe that if the roles were reversed Vegito would be winning more times than not.

[@GeechieOG]

Hot take🔥🎙️🗣️ Krillen is the biggest antagonist in the cell saga

What about the guy that let cell absorb the androids and fought anyone who tried to stop cell from absorbing them that's way worse then tryna get some android coochie

[@UsernameUsername0000]

40:27 I’ve seen original DB and I feel like there’s a level of overhyping it from the people who went back to watch it. Events drag on so bad in the show. Cool highlights, but the Red Ribbon saga was narratively dragged out, especially in the anime, and it didn’t win me over. All the events I’ve heard about OG DB sounded amazing on paper, but they felt diluted and clunky in the actual show when I got to it. The 21st tournament was the biggest letdown after all the good things I heard about it.

Naa your crazy very very few people think that gang dragon ball is an adventure and is supposed to be fun all the characters are interesting and likeable and useful goku naive and pure funny monkey boy it was definitely a vibe

[@UsernameUsername0000]

It was a vine, but it wasn’t nowhere close to as good as I was told. That’s my opinion.

[@honeybunkid41]

i know dbs broly has a better story but the savagery of z broly stole my heart man

[@Alienldr]

This is how i see the GT vs Super debate. Let's say someone prepares me a sandwich. They used dark rye bread when i don't prefer it. They used creamy peanut butter even though i prefer crunchy. They used the wrong jelly. But they cut the crust for me. Just because they did one good thing doesn't mean i should prefer it. That's how i feel GT is. Theres some good but a lot of bad. And then super is like if they made a chicken salad sandwich. Its fine on its own, but i prefer peanut butter and jelly. GT attempted that but made it badly. Some comparatively, they both have good and bad, and i can see why people like each. But i cant lie and ignore the issues of both, just so my side can win, or i can jump on the meme of hating the other

[@jemeelmbure9976]

im sooooo glad someone talked about future gohan. yall wanna know what future gohan is, gohan without goku's training, yea he aint that guy when he dont got big daddy goku there to help him develop his powers now he gets clapped by 2 androids.But with the help of goku a younger gohan was able to beat the combination of those two androids along with cell yea..... future gohan ur trash buts it not ur fault

[@scarfface4682]

Cant get behind the manga for dbs if its not Akira toriyamas pen I cant fuck with it

[@GamersXnostalgia]

I don't care if its animated or not tbh, they've already shown us they both are completely different entities. If they do I know, we'll all be watching no matter what. 😂

[@SGSensei]

I'd actually agree more manga is fine to me actually

[@Degdreams]

8:13 An arc and a saga are two different things. An arc is a part of a Saga. The Android Arc is within the Cell Saga.

[@cuttler3693]

How do I post a pic I have something I wanna run past y'all. It's about kid buu vs buuhan

[@SavantPete]

You are high as a kite if you think that Goku did not have the better fights in the series

[@rainbow_vader]

I'm high as a kite and I know anyone who disagrees is drunk

[@BiggestMan.]

High as a Kite? Brother Goku DOES have the better fights, that ain't even debatable, has better fights in DB, DBZ and even its more debatable DBS

[@lsj8917]

@@BiggestMan.you’re agreeing with him

[@telldetruth9259]

It’s not even a debate

[@orenges7034]

I don’t even remember good Vegeta fights that don’t involve Goku. Maybe when Jiren was folding him but he was looking like an afterthought Edit: actually there’s Frieza

[@fullcourtjunky9530]

Is dragon ball the only anime on this channel?

[@TrippyGhxst]

6:10 I mean pilaf also made a dragonball radar, so we calling him a genius too? So while both rsge and beast come out of no where atleast beast looks cool and has a clear place on how powerful it is, in the anime it almost has build up to it and if you want to reach it could just be an evolution to his potential being unlocked Its an android saga with a cyborg arc and a cell arc

[@heretics_archive]

Am i tripping bulma wasn’t the one working on Kami’s ship it was Dr briefs she didn’t work on Gokus ship either that was Dr briefs as far as I remember it was mostly him working on android 16 as well

[@crowofjudgement4718]

16:40 Piccolo literally saved Goku's behind when he was charging the spirit bomb. And how did Piccolo arrive on Namek? With the dragon balls. Remove the sensu beans or the dragon balls and they die. Infact. The dragon balls were a MASSIVE factor into defeating Majin Buu with the spirit bomb

[@thefitnessgrampacertestisa8483]

If sensu beans didn’t exist, Goku would’ve died to king piccolo and then raditz would take over earth.

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

On the road to 140k Subs 💯❤️

[@Popo_Plays]

I want dragon ball super 2 to come back more then the manga after watching daima now i have even high expectations they can make dragon ball look just as good as it was back in Z with new modern animation quality but not only visually i want that classic z vibe in super 2 i want those darkish color tone pointy ears pointy boots seriousness brutality blood rage deatailed hairs when transformed and a balance between dumb and smart goku 😅basically sometimes dumb but sometimes saying something smart act lke his age and get serious when needed no fooling around when the world is in danger i want that goku backkkkkkkk 😅 that's it if they make it like that then it will be trending number 1 worldwide

[@Luissv72]

Nah Nappa vs the Z fighters is super overrated. It's just one massive stomp with no real pushback outside of Gohan's crybaby moment and you know from the beginning most if not all are getting ressurected. Nappa's also just a boring meathead, any strong Saiyan would've been the same (hell Vegeta could've done it all alone and I think it would've been more interesting). All the Ginyu's have real individual personality, all their fights feel different, there's a real push and pull to everything going on, and overall it's just superior in every aspect.

[@duddysback3780]

Rewatching super and the beerus banter and hakai makes him better than jiren

[@javenscott6133]

7:05 i think it is infact one whole arc, i just dont get calling it the "cell arc" when we dont even know cell exists until kami points out a hidden evil.

When u say cell arc people think the entire android saga plus cell games

[@javenscott6133]

I mean yea, if you've seen it, but if you're a new fan coming into the series, you don't know that.

@javenscott6133 it's been 30 years since z came out bro I don't know what to tell them then🤣🤣

[@javenscott6133]

Eh I like to like to re-watch the series with a new mindset and outlook when viewing, so I personally try to put myself in the shoes of a new fan to the series. But I get what ya all mean. Of course, we as fans all know what's going on. The logic behind it is just weird to me lol.

[@UsernameUsername0000]

It’s really unfair to compare Vegito and Gogeta. Gogeta in canon has only appeared on movie budgets and schedules where they can afford to animate the craziest moves they can come up with. Vegito’s two appearances were on arc budgets where they can never win because the arcs are never resolved by fusion, unlike a movie where a fusion winning isn’t a bad narrative. I would only compare them if Vegito appeared in a movie too.

[@orenges7034]

Fr. If they swapped roles, the results would always be the same in this case

[@BucketWasTakenTwice]

Come on... he was enjoyable in the buu saga and goku black fight was actually really good till they pulled that cheese

[@UsernameUsername0000]

@@BucketWasTakenTwice I’m defending Vegito too.

[@chunkysaurus785]

Of course GTs ending is better than Super, super hasn’t ended

[@Savag3Tun3chi3]

The super manga after the tornament of power arc is trash .gohan beast is a micky because gohan didnt train for it. Orange piccolo is cool . Transformations are trash after ssj3 because all the moves are still the same

[@edenodisho4634]

i can argue why gohan beast is a worse transformation than super sayian rage, super sayian rage isnt a transformation.

[@Ultravegitoblue123]

They cant zenkai in manga also dballs bring goku back first arc

[@steffanofumo]

Yup Tien the only life long martial artist that never stopped training who has special philosophy and can grow 4 arms and came up with crazy techniques, that dude doesn’t deserve to be stronger than the cop who got so distracted and weak bullets started to hurt him, hard choice between the two GTFO lol

[@marche800]

There are several arcs literally predicated on the presence or absense of the dragon balls. Namek doesn't happen period without them and neither does the Saiyan Saga. They do more good for the stakes than bad in every instance.

[@Matter_Of_Fact]

I have always disliked Z Broly

[@SaviHow]

Sage I feel like you didn't really talk about stakes much in the Senzu vs Dballs argument. Sure you can go "Well if they didn't have (X) here, they would have all died!" but that's not fully how stakes work, and even if it was you could just easily counter the whole Senzu argument by saying that without the balls, none of that would have mattered anyway because Goku simply would not be present for the fight against the Saiyans at all, thus everyone dying anyway. The beans also rarely ever completely rid of the threat in anyway, and because they're consistently dumbasses and literally pass them out to everyone, they're usually only used one time per person, and after being used the characters still need to figure out how to actually beat the threat. Meanwhile the balls wipe all scare of character death in dragonball. Sure there are times where "If (X) dies, the planet gets blown up and we're all doomed anyway", but there are also many times where cities, countries, civilizations, and planets worth of people straight up die on screen and we collectively go "Meh, they'll be wished back." The dragonballs are a perpetual bandaid for the series, there are many times throughout the story where they're purpose is straight up to undo any losses received from a fight.

[@rayquaza000]

Adding more to the Senzu bean in the manga they literally survive long enough because of the Senzu beans against Gas. Bro would've game ended all of them if they weren't popping them bitches hell Goku needed one against Granolah cause he was getting hit with Byakugan cheese

[@bobherobrine3415]

sweaty pits

[@Lokoclutch98]

43:26 someone in twitch chat said super vegeta is as strong as majin vegeta. i know dbz fans dont read but tf?

U don't have to read to know how dumb that is lmao

[@RobeBLB]

I just don't fuck with Jiren like that. I feel like he actually has similar appeal to Z Broly in Z Broly vs Super Broly debates where people just like him because he's a "Boss Character" and not necessarily a good character. Yeah he facilitates some hype fights but he looks boring and as far as characters go he's pretty basic.

[@castform7]

You know what, Sage was actually cooking with the Senzu Bean take. When you really think about it those things are kinda broken. An instant heal to seemingly all injuries (don't forget they healed the MASSIVE GAPING HOLE in Yamcha's chest) is ridiculously useful. Like Dragon Balls are really good but the aren't without their restrictions. Senzus have always done what they should if not more than what they should. Dragon Balls still have an argument but anyone sleeping on Senzus is crazy.

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

It’s Dragon balls by far 😂. In the series you’ve had rejuvenation chambers, dense, kibito, and of course the dragonballs. Senzu just more convenient to have on hand. But they only use is healing. The dragonballs bring you back and restore entire planets and universes

[@pyrothefiredemon]

When sage brought up the "Buu ate dende" I dont recall senzu beans being used on his salvation but I couldn't help but think how kid buu would've won if the earth wasn't brough back with namek's dragonballs and if goku didn't have his stamina recovered by them giving the "Thank you dragonballs" line.

[@nessdbest8708]

ITS MY BIRTHDAY TODAY!

[@TSO_Sage]

YOURE OLD 🫵🏾… happy birthday

[@nessdbest8708]

@@TSO_Sage Appreciate it, but i turned 21.

[@thelordofthewest7781]

​@TSO_Sage I know unc not talking

[@I_love_DBZ]

@nessdbest8708 Happy B-Day!!

[@nessdbest8708]

@@I_love_DBZ A little late but thank you!

[@Nik_kieth1011]

17:04 huh? 🤨

[@ThrillerKiller96]

I’m at the gym looking to see if you dropped sum new, and you dropped it while at the gym. So goated