TTA Podcast 102- Morality

[@AngerAndScience]

I'm an atheist. I grew up poor as hell. There were months when we didn't go grocery shopping because we didn't have money, so I ended up eating a lot of rice. I worked my way through college and have made something of myself. I've never relied on a higher power; I've relied on myself and those around me who could help me in a tangible way.

[@teresagdavila5442]

Dear Seth~ My 13 year old son, my husband and I enjoyed very much the beginning of your presentation in San Antonio, TX. Unfortunately, we had to leave due to an emergency. We love you, and admire your beautiful and meaningful work and never ending celebration of our one and only LIFE with LOVE ~ REASON ~ LOGIC and GRATITUDE to the whole UNIVERSE and the scientists. We are proud Atheists!

[@matternicuss]

"... not measuring my steps forward by a person whose intellectual high horse is perched on a KZbin comments section." So true. Seth, you may be the most humble YT atheist I know of, but your wit never fails to impress.

[@HucksterFoot]

A friend of mine many years ago would often remind me; paraphrasing "What bothers me about atheism is how can they deny or have a non belief in something they have to acknowledge in the first place." This, at the time, made sense to me.

[@1008chaz]

It is easy to say what you will do in one of the moral dilemmas but when it comes down to it our natural instinct to survive will take hold and lead us to what the best way out for us is not necessarily what is the most moral or right thing to do

[@Blackspidy619]

I think it's actually VERY moral to express and defend one's belief, seeing as how it helps form an understanding of eachother's viewpoints.

[@NeroBaelside13]

My family gets at each others throats over petty shit all the time, but during the time of a death in the family everyone is pretty calm and supportive of one another.

[@matternicuss]

It's not about responsibility; it's about internal conflict. This inner turmoil is an essential part of what makes us human. The scenarios aren't difficult primarily because it is hard to rationalize whether A or B is 'correct,' but because of unforeseen, and arguably, necessary consequences (both internal and external) of choice. A scenario like that would probably haunt someone for the remainder of their life, even if they were able to rationalize it convincingly. Wounds heal, but still scar.

[@Temprl]

My solution to the lifeboat scenario: have three groups of 10 people (assuming all are adults) to get in the water and hold onto the boat. These groups will transition every hour. This reducing the weight of the boat, and if someone dies during their turn off of the boat, it is of chance and not your choice, giving every person a non-guaranteed chance.

[@tehspamgozehere]

2:00 Milking being sick. - Not in my house. We have the opposite problem. "Why didn't you tell me you were unwell?" "I didn't want to worry you." "You collapsed!" "Eh. I'm fine." "You were in the hospital for two weeks!" "I feel fine now." "The doctor disagrees. You're meant to be in bed. Get off of the tractor!" "Siiiigh." Dad had a triple bypass a short while ago and keeps putting off going for a checkup. I'm just as bad. I've had blood tests scheduled to check my kidneys for a year or two now. "Eh, tomorrow." It's a bit of an issue.

[@jasoncarpp7742]

I *so* love what this caller said about his perspective regarding atheism and morality (59:31-1:00:05). I'm the same way as well. I got my morality through my parents, not through what the Bible says.

[@misterdeity]

Every time I listen or watch one of these, I'm always so distracted by how great your voice is -- perhaps because mine is so wimpy. But it literally takes me five minutes to get past the awe I feel. On top of that, you always do such interesting stuff. Thanks for all the hard work.

[@tehspamgozehere]

33:10 The Shelter - First Wave did a version of that with an alien invasion, I think. And Supernatural with demons.. I think. It's an interesting theme to explore. Doesn't surprise me that Twilight Zone would take a crack at it. Quantum Leap had it's take on it also if I recall. Tropes can be fun.

[@Funaru]

I first read mortality and got depressed and turned off for a second, then i read the title again and was relieved. Now i'll watch it.

[@tetheredhands]

This is a hypothetical situation in which you are in complete control, but you're right in that in a real life situation no one is going to allow a single person to say whether they live or die. If a few people stand up and call for a fair drawing of names, it could reduce caos significantly.

[@joshuadrew5223]

i hope you do this topic again. i would very much like to call in and tell you my two cents. the questions and scenarios you give were rather innovative and fun.

[@beaelliott]

My neighbor is a fireman.He's had experience going into a building where there was charred human flesh. With disgust he recalls that it reminded him of a bbq smell. Hence the phrase "long pig". He's a vegetarian now.

[@wooddoc5956]

I realize it's 2023 now and I'm way behind the times on this video. I would love to see you talk about the trolley problem if you haven't already.

[@HucksterFoot]

Then there's defending a belief even when it's shown to be demonstrably false; then express these beliefs by stamping on the rights of others. You're right, it is good to understand other viewpoints.

[@MarkRosengarten]

Whether you keep or sell the heirloom kind of depends entirely on your family situation. You could tell your grandmother straight up that you have no use for it, it would just sit forgotten in a drawer somewhere and advise her to pass it on to someone else. I have no extended family to pass the moral dilemma on to. Would it be moral for grandma to dangle this bauble in front of me if she knows I'm in desperate financial straits? What is the morality of imposing an obligation on another?

[@matternicuss]

I took the utilitarian approach for the boat scenario as well, but in reality, it would be much more difficult to choose who lives and dies when you put a face on each individual. Cold logic is probably the best answer here, but still difficult for people who have compassion.

[@Archimedesize]

Victor Frankl is his book from "Death Camp to Existentialism", later renamed "Man's Search for Meaning" has a lot to say about morals and ethics.

[@kaseybrown7147]

It's easier if you alleviate yourself of responsibility. Be emotionally aware to know what you're feeling, and WHY you're feeling it. It's like if someone puts a cigarette lighter on your arm to get rid of an infection - you'll just grit your teeth and get through it. But if you couldn't see the person, didn't know what was burning your arm, or why it was happening, then it would be dozens of times worse. But if you know what you're feeling and why, it doesn't last as long or hurt as much.

[@6idangle]

I ACTUALLY HAD ONE OF THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO ME!! the one with the denting I called the campus police and reported the dent I made it messed up my plans for the night and my insurance went up but I knew I could not live with myself if I dented someones vehicle and did not take responsibility. If everyone just made the hard but necessary decisions the world would be a better place

[@cynt123able]

I asked my daughter once she was about nine yrs.old. If we came into the apartment and a intruder attacked me what would she do. She said would fight the attacker with me and I told her no she should go and get help because she would not win.

[@I.Am.L]

I agree! That's the beauty of having the freedom of thought. However, I feel that there is a difference between arguing, or debating, and fighting. What happens in a lot of these comment sections is both parties end up blind to the other's opinion, and basically start bashing each other in literary form.

[@NeroBaelside13]

My parents were honest to me about marijuana when I was probably 13. They told me alcohol has more justified reasons to be illegal over pot, but I shouldn't make my choice to try either until I was older. They're pretty realistic and they knew regardless of their stance or rule that a teenager is going to drink or smoke weed eventually. And I did, but thanks to them I was well informed and able to be decently level headed about it. I'd follow their example definitely.

[@CAdance2012]

One interesting thought is the effect of science on the development of morality. For instance, it seems "common sense" that harsh punishments tend to reduce the instance if crimes like robbery or murder. But as we study behavior we realize that this is not necessarily. And since we have had more rational punishments for lesser crimes and got rid of capital punishment, the effect seems to have been to reduce the instance of these crimes. So our knowledge informs our morality.

[@matternicuss]

1:10:39. As with any example listed, there are many variables unaccounted for (such as one's relationship to their mother), but I think this scenario assumes you have a close, if somewhat tenuous relationship (in that you lover her, and care about her feelings).

[@Ca11m3Raven]

I would most definitely pray with my mother in her final moments. In my opinion lines it should only be used for good, and what better place than right then?

[@Ladyinmaine27]

The scenario is not something a person can answer without actually experiencing the situation requiring a choice. We can postulate on what we [think] we would do. I think a moral person might pick the required number BUT must choose himself or herself as one to go overboard.

[@I.Am.L]

That was what my previous comment was referencing. I scrolled down to find some parties basically having a middle school type-brawl with words. Neither was broadening their outlook, and neither was accomplishing much of anything other than berating the other with their own beliefs. I'm the kind of person that will stand in front of a Christian, or any other religion I don't believe in, and defend them, even if I agree with the other person, if that person is being viscous or berating.

[@Crylar44]

I love the whole "you must have a breakdown to be a good person". I know it's harsh, and it's drastic, and maybe a little bit of martyrdom. But still, horrible things should should leave a mark. Dark, beautiful and true =)

[@screenpuller]

Regarding the boat scenario, MY morality would have ME volunteer to be the first to go overboard... all I could ask of the others would be to look into their hearts & decide if nine others would be willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the remaining passengers. All I could reasonably hope for is that basic humanity & pathos would win out.

[@steve112285]

I propose that, in any circumstance where we must choose who lives and who dies, belief in an afterlife should be a major factor. If 10 people on that lifeboat think they will live on after death, they should be a portion of those removed from the boat. After removing those people whose health issues will only allow them to live for a few more years or months anyway, and those people who volunteer for any reason, choose from these 10.

[@DonQuixotec]

When I had ethics class when I attended the university, we always used ethics as the cognitive side. Your ethical beliefs etc. For example "It's nice to give children apples", and comment that as "that is ethically correct". And we saw morals as the act. For example actually giving the children apples, and comment that as "you have good morals". But, might be wrong.

[@bingofingers]

I've already defined it as animals who show self awareness. Dogs and cats don't have self awareness either. The reason we don't eat them (in the west) is that originally they were useful for other things and over time a cultural taboo against eating them has grown up. Plants have been shown to have reactions analogous to pain and release pheromones as a warning to others of the same species so that they can "beef up" their defences ( manufacture poisons, thorns and thistles, thicker bark etc)

[@carryall69]

the same goes for success. if it means to be acknowledged by those who are your equivalents, how can it satisfy me to lip serve the other side? happiness is a delicate thing.

[@pjbrown1748]

Seth, great episode, very relatable as I had to deal with moral decisions to save my mom's house from foreclosure.

[@alexmarkadonis7179]

Free Will and The Moral Landscape by Sam Harris and The Expanding Circle by Peter Singer and The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins explain, at least partly, why we instinctively act as Dan Barker did at the airport and how our evolved capacities for reason, empathy and observation lead us to be moral.

[@jellyrcw12]

35:00 "I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE" I honestly think these are very good questions to ponder over. If I were put in the lifeboat situation I would ask "Who volunteers?" and I'm sure a 2 or 3 would and that would be a start. Everybody can then rock paper scissors it out lol.

[@carryall69]

hi, i'm interested in scenarios, could you explain this preacher thing again for me? like is it ok to be an advocate for reason and stuff?

[@I.Am.L]

Tact is a powerful, if not essential tool for helping someone understand the logistics behind one's opinion. :)

[@AJenny581]

So what're the answers to the "Empathy" questions? Why do we have empathy? Is it beneficial? Where does empathy come from? Is it always best to act in an empathetic way? Don't just substitute one word for another and claim to have answered a question.

[@LukeDeVari]

Thank you very much for posting this video! I really needed the injection of intellectualism after a dull week filled with stupidity. What a breath of fresh air!

[@BC1ZM3]

i would go out of my way to maximize the number of people on board, using the average weight of a person to figure out what the maximum weight for the boat is and then pick the heaviest and oldest, because the younger you are the more you would lose by dying. the overall goal is to minimize suffering

[@KaroKoenich]

About the "Kill Hitler as a child" question: I highly recommend reading "Making History" by Stephen Fry. Clever book, and dealing with almost exactly this scenario.

[@Oblic008]

I thought about the first 2 scenarios (the lifeboat one and the athlete endorsement one) and I think I have a fair answer for both. First, the easy one: if I were a "role model" as an athlete, I would endorse ANY legitimate food product, as long as I'm only endorsing it as food. As for the lifeboat one: if I were made the leader, I would ask people to volunteer themselves first. I would definitely go overboard, because I couldn't live with myself afterward. After volunteers, we'd draw straws.

[@kaseybrown7147]

Your perception of having your autonomy removed is a perception the person must confront and deal with. The person did make a choice (the definition of autonomy), and the choice was to help the dying mother. If later, this memory is reinterpreted, they they will need to address it. I'm not saying that emotion will not play a role in each of these dilemmas, but the emotion that results is the person's job to deal with. The choices themselves are easy to decide on.

[@beaelliott]

Yes, I most certainly am making a distinction between plants and animals.Animal, vegetable, mineral. Please do tell me which animal are "non self aware"? Was slavery a symbiotic relationship? Christians thought so.They thought we were stealing them from their savage homes to "civilize" them. "Was there ever any domination that did not appear natural to those who possessed it" -John Stuart Mill

[@Blackspidy619]

but there's always someone hearing a point of view for the first time, and seeing some of the religious assertions written out help ripping them apart.

[@roppongi082]

With the lifeboat dilemma, it might be phrased with a little more info to eliminate variables. "The people on the lifeboat depend on you for leadership", if interpreted to mean that your absence would also mean certain death for all the survivors, would eliminate the possibility of you throwing yourself overboard in order to not have to make the decision, or including yourself as one of the ten on the life raft being pushed overboard. Another variable to eliminate is to factor in if there's a difference between who would volunteer to leave the raft vice being voluntold to leave the life raft. If in the scenario, it's explained that no one is willing to volunteer, then the ten vs thirty dilemma exists.

[@zencat999]

thank you seth for being a sane voice for atheism. I get so tired of the screamers and the whiners doing nothing but bitching about stuff. BTW..have you gotten a P.O. box yet? I dont do paypal but want to send you a cheque or something to keep you going. cheers&aloha M

[@thorbear]

So they're either someone who struggles through life by not having a place to live, or someone who doesn't? So, everyone? Either way, no matter what problem I am faced with, and no matter how powerless I am against it, I would not start believing in invisible friends to feel better.

[@AndrewBrownK]

im going to apostacon too!! cant wait to meet you two seth and caller

[@SAsgarters]

Lifeboat: Have rotations. 10 people in the water for a period of time, then switch them for another group of 10. Repeat until it's no longer necessary.

[@mrx00666]

The Tea party are the least liked? Wow. That's amazingly refreshing to hear.

[@DBDRekthor]

Hi there, loved the podcast - But I am curious as to your "moral scenario" at 0:47:00. I don't understand how telling your kids you smoked weed in high school or whatever was immoral. Atheists have always been on team Weed, and Weed on team Atheist. That's how it should be. I'd like to get a reply on this if possible??

[@BamerJammer]

I think that if anyone is given the power to throw others overboard that it would be mandatory that they would be one of those that died as well.

[@matternicuss]

I chose 'no' for the same reasons as the marine had; that we cannot know the unintended consequences of altering one of the most important, if horrific, events in modern history.

[@bladudemovies]

Seth, you should check out Bioshock Infinite. It really goes over the ideas you seem to be fascinated in like how things would be different if certain things were changed.

[@DoggoWillink]

When is somebody going to come to NJ. We've got Princeton, Rutgers, something! We have big secular alliances, I wish they'd do something. Hitchens was at TCNJ once and I didn't even know, I must redeem myself.

[@drailluos]

A gift implies that there's not an expectation of something in return. Believe the unbelievable or else be tortured forever, yeah, that's some gift there.

[@jasoncarpp7742]

When I was growing up, I was told by my aunt would tell me that unless I was a Christian, that I wasn't moral, that if I didn't believe in God, and Jesus Christ, that I had no morals of right vs. wrong. I could be wrong, but I have to disagree. I have morals and ethics. It's just that I don't base my morals on what the Bible says to do. :)

[@SAsgarters]

What imperative? If he survives, he can seed dozens. If he doesn't, he saves one.

[@debbietampasheher3682]

Denting the car a few years ago I took my mom, sister and daughter to Evos, a fast food restaurant. I forgot who did it but a door hit the car next to us. My mom, a Catholic and extremely religious (she hasn't voted since 2004 because abortion... she can't vote Republican) told me to just leave. Well, I didn't. As I was leaving the note the car owners came out. they didn't want me to pay our give them my insurance since I didn't just leave.

[@ImStayGold42]

The kid Hitler question made me think of the ending for the movie Looper. I don't think the scenarios are the same but kinda similar. Interesting plot twist at least.

[@LORDNAG1]

Great topic of discussion.

[@bboy32167]

yes but that defeats the purpose of the exercise in reality of coarse there are more then 2 options but the 2 option scenario is about morality mainly which of 2 hard actions is moral

[@mehja1]

In Germany being an atheist is a non-issue and I NEVER heard anyone making a claim along the lines that atheists cannot be moral - not even from the few devoutly religious I know. Until I went to the US... When after a couple of months I offhand mentioned I am an atheist: "But you are such a nice person!" But...? What does one has to do with the other? How would I've treated if it had known before? I wrote this off as plain weird but it seems to be an issue... yet, it is still plain weird to me.

[@1212JackJohnson]

When it comes down to it, it's ALWAYS about 'morality' Most rational discussions end up at 'morality' and so they should Religion's only defense for a future depends upon a much improved acceptance that 'morals' count and that they (religions) are accountable.

[@teresarossini9392]

While many Christians seem to think that their "pardon from sin" is a swift and pain free ticket, not all do... everyone, including Christians, are judged according to Revelation. Many atheists loathe the idea of hanging out for eternity in heaven and often say they would prefer the "other side." My point is you still face judgement no matter what and it is during that defining moment you get to defend yourself but it won't be easy and I think a lot of Christians are going to be shocked.

[@furryfox102]

there would be a few stipulations, such as, if a child on the boat only has one parent left, the surviving parent would be exempt. any quicker death request that is capable given the circumstances would be granted. any final requests (tell my wife i love her when you get to land, last bit of food(as long as it doesn't jeopardize the survival of the others), ect) will be granted. children under the age of 16 are exempt fully, 16-18 volunteer only. this provides the most fair way to save everyone

[@Snotnarok]

I know similar situation stated in the cast, a family where when their grandmother was unable to take care of herself, she had to put the control in the hands of her son in law because there were a lot of arguments going around about her will and her remaining money. He chose to put her in a quality nursing home to live out her days, and they were upset because the money would be eaten up. Mind you these were vocal men of the faith arguing over money that was not theirs. morals=/=faith

[@HucksterFoot]

Morality is an evolved trait as far as I'm concerned ...and we can observe these behaviors in varying degrees in social animals.

[@BC1ZM3]

morality is objective, but people have different ideas of what is moral, it doesn't change what is truly moral for a certain situation, just like science is objective but some will argue against what is true and what is false

[@TestTubetheUnicorn]

Which episode was that? Sounds interesting.

[@tehspamgozehere]

17:43 Lifeboat question - Bail like mad! You'd be amazed at how much water two people and a shirt can get out of a foundering boat. But I'm going to assume that isn't an option for some reason so as to continue the question. Ask for volunteers. There may be enough amongst the survivors who are willing to go over the side voluntarily. There may also be those who are willing to compromise and cling instead to the outside of the boat and hold tight to the hull while the other survivors beat the crap out of any shark that gets too close using the oars all life boats ought to have. They're big lumps of wood in many cases, and the sharks nose is pretty sensitive. It's dangerous, but not as dangerous as simply jumping in and waiting. Some might be willing to take a risk to save others rather than actually suicide to save others. Grey area options can be explored. Failing that, ask more pointedly for volunteers amongst those who are less likely to be able to help the group survive. It's horrible of course, but an eighty year old grandmother isn't going to be much use on a desert island. Fortunately, many eighty year old grandmothers understand and accept their limitations so may have already volunteered. Same with the sick-and-unlikely-to-recover, the disabled, the infirm, those with a leg recently amputated due to getting caught in debris at the ship went down and so on. Again, many in those situations will realise their situation and volunteer. Or so one would hope. If that still doesn't work, we have a choice between forcing "volunteers" by some kind of selection, or by drawing straws or other ballot or chance. Getting into extra-nasty territory now. Who gets to decide is a bit of an issue. "Vote them off the island" style has it's rather obvious and glaring flaws. One person in charge also has issues. If the captain is there and they're seasoned, then they're likely to be a good judge of character and understand the situation and may be the most suitable to make such harsh decisions. If by whatever means we have a group of people willing or chosen to go over the side, there are still grey area options. The hull clinging and oars of course. There's also the fact that sharks will often go after meat already in the water rather than trail a boat and hope. How fast is the boat sinking? Can a ballot be run to chose one person to go over and be a decoy while the rest bail or oar-bash? The senario has additional influencial variables we're not given. But above all, be as dispassionate as possible and weigh options. DO look for the grey areas and compromises. Don't take rash action. Many are the tales of Donner Party style decisions being made only hours before rescue... But I'm sure there are plenty of times that's gone the other way and people have died by trying to hold on just one more minute. Emotion will be as dangerous as the sharks are. If people panic or even get heated, things will be worse for all. The trope of the guy who flips out and pulls a gun saying "I'm not going over the side! I'll kill you all before I go over!" only to be smacked over the head with a bailing bucket and chucked overboard first is there for a reason. And heck, if someone is a direct and present danger to the group, they've pretty much volunteered themselves. In the most black and white simplified version and we simply must chose ten of thirty to go over and everyone is an identical clone of each other, all exactly as healthy as each other and there are no grey areas at all for some reason, everyone is calm and collected and no one volunteers.. Ballot. Straws or similar. Even in such an unlikely scenario, having one person chose to kill another must be avoided so as to avoid the "Who will be chosen next" fear tearing a group apart. Bloody hell, I really rambled this time.

[@beaelliott]

Hi. Yes, towards the end Seth directly asked the question about a vegan being invited to a meal where flesh was served...It's sad that by just addressing this question in an honest and respectful fashion - So many others get so defensive about it. We can see moral dissonance first hand... Even from the "thinking" audience. Sad. :( Thanks for your support though! ;)

[@beaelliott]

Again... Please do tell me which animals (in your mind) are self aware. Thank you.

[@theunapologeticjew]

Seth, great as always. So 2 thoughts: Can we be good without God? As I wrote the author of the book, “we can only find out if we go to some island or place where God is not known and study the culture and mores. Freud thought that the superego was the collective memory of the human race. Could DNA, which of course he never knew about be the key? My Lab has never been trained as a retriever yet she brings me stuff out of the yard all the time. It’s in her DNA. Maybe morality is in ours and people that don’t possess it have a birth defect.

[@maxkilroy3014]

Has anyone else mentioned the movie 'Circle' yet?

[@maxitae]

The U.S. soldier in South Korea, sounds like me. Finally, I know there's another person who feels this way.

[@kaseybrown7147]

Most of these are high school type questions. That's just how they appear to me. You are not responsible for your circumstance, as you cannot *control* your circumstance or what happens. You can only control what you do. You cannot control the outcome. So if you ask people to get off an overcrowded boat, that's an easy question. Its your call, but you're not responsible for ANY of the events that lead to it, or the events that come after. You just pick 10 people to get off. Its easy.

[@sovietbot6708]

Tight parking space: I would pretend nothing happened. Copying music: I would allow it Invoice: I wouldn't call Then again, I'm not a moral person. I'm a sociopath.

[@misterdeity]

I would never take it as such. He is at the top of my comic heroes (along with Bob Newhart, Bob Hope, and Mary Tyler Moore). Woody is king!

[@addicted2facts]

so did I answered as soon as i heard the question and call for comments

[@beaelliott]

I agree "not enough for everyone's greed". About "humanely slaughtered" - Do these animals love their lives any less than those who are "tortured"? No "food animal" even those "free range" ones live to see more than a quarter of their expected life span.It's simply not profitable to feed them beyond the "value" of their top weight. Also, beware of "free range" labels-Most aren't accurate.And they still "modify" and mutilate their bodies:castration, dehorning, artificial insemination, etc.

[@bingofingers]

The Cambridge declaration simply states that other animals have the capacity for conciousness but it doesn't state that all animals are self aware. I have no problem accepting animals that do well at the mirror test;other apes,elephants, dolphins and octopuses are to some degree self aware but I don't accept that sheep, cows, chickens are. Everybody draws the line somewhere. You draw it at plants ( some scientists believe plants feel pain incidentally ) I draw it at non aware animals.

[@kaseybrown7147]

For the mother one - You are not praying for you. This prayer has *no* affect on you at all. You are going through the motions because it helps ease your mother's suffering. The prayer means nothing. If your dying mother asked you to turn around 3 times and clap your hands (maybe some ancient ritual - who knows), then doing so will ease HER suffering. It takes only a few seconds of your time, so it cost you very little, and has no affect on you thereafter. So the answer is yes - do it.

[@mvoart9829]

Criteria for choosing the ten people: First, I would determine who definitely should NOT be thrown off the life boat. Children, doctors, parents of the children etc. Second, I would see if there are any volunteers. I would volunteer. Third I would determine if anyone on the life boat is significantly more heavy than the others. Lastly I would determine if there is any way we could kill and cook them rather than throw them off. We need food and they are going to die in the water anyways.

[@sonotover]

Those impossible situations are not moral questions. Morality is a compass, not a defibrillator. Morality is like nutrition, it's meant to help guide you through life and give you basic principles about human action. It is not meant to get you out of an impossible situation. Nutrition is not meant to help someone who is currently having a heart attack and morality is not meant to help someone in a bomb shelter with nukes headed toward him.

[@UraniumMan]

I must not have reached the portion of the video that prompted your comment, but I am right there with you, Bea, with your sentiments. :o)

[@MistakesNewbiesMake]

18:00 - These types of situations are not good for morality. It doesn't help the moral argument and puts the mind in a paradox. If you actually want to discuss morally look up UPB.

[@furryfox102]

in that situation 18:00 there would be a step by step process. first, I would ask the group if anyone would like to volunteer, granting any last requests that are possible given the circumstances, then offering a quicker, and less painful way, (snapping of the neck, holding a sleeper hold, ect) then, I for the remaining, children excluded, use some kind of random selection to determine who else will go, then, offer them the quicker and less painful options, (continued explanation in reply)

[@mycare4u74]

FREE WILL is a GIFT. The decision on how to use it, is upon the person himself .The Holy Scriptures Has a GUIDE to gain BENEFITS from the Gift of " FREE WILL".

[@BC1ZM3]

also I would not be devastated by my choice because I understand that I did the best I could and saved more lives than were lost

[@mycare4u74]

To Teresa Rossini: Yes, there is " TRUE FREE WILL"

[@emmarichardson5357]

Lifeboat sitiation explain to everyone that 10 need to go or everyone will die, ask for volunteers. I would volunteer as I'm disabled, don't have kids & never going to have kids. I would hope elderly people would also volunteer to give those younger a better chance of survival but if I were forced to choose who dies it would be elderly first as they've got the least potential time left of their lives anyway. If I somehoe survived I would feel terrible about the decision I had made but I'd still feel like it was the right decision

[@matternicuss]

That's not my point, but I get where you're coming from. Unless one is a sociopath, who does not feel for others or have empathy, choosing who lives and dies among even a small group of individuals is not easy, even for the most rational. You may survive, along with a handful of others, but you will have to live with your choices, and wonder whether or not you made the right ones. Yes, if you ignore or eliminate feeling and emotion, it makes it easier, but is it worth sacrificing your humanity?