TTA Podcast 136: Psychoanalyzing God (with Dr. Valerie Tarico)

[@sadboipotato3382]

Holy shit, give that caller a gold medal, his mental gymnastics are amazing.

[@LivingNow]

I loved it when he said, living truthfully should be more important than living a fantasy.

[@clydesight]

***** I love how you, Seth, managed the conversation around 21:30, and were respectful to the man who said he was a preacher (I am not so sure he was a real preacher), so he could make his viewpoint known! That was great! We need more of that kind of interaction in these faith type discussions. And then you were sensitive enough to remember your guest, Dr. Tarico, and bring her into the conversation. That was excellent! I think we do need to let people express themselves and let them fly, or crash, on what they have to say. I really dislike shows where people of differing viewpoints interrupt and attack each other. Let the audience decide based on what the proponents themselves say. It seems to me that you really kept the playing field even here, what a relief! I believe, Seth, you are something of a pioneer! Bravo, keep it up!

[@ThatOddChickenHippie]

I love how the talk between them and the preacher was quite civil. It's refeshing

[@bonnie43uk]

Valerie has got a wonderful cadence to her voice, her TrustingDoubt series on KZbin is well worth a watch/listen.

[@eddieclark9802]

I'll bet she writes beautifully, also. 🤓

[@derek24hudson]

Dr Torico's 'Trusting Doubt video series on KZbin was exceptional; well sourced, researched and supported with ample, reliable evidence. I have great respect for her work and her intellect.

[@SelfEducationRadio]

Jealousy and anger are not traits to be worshipped.

[@SelfEducationRadio]

***** They are "God"

[@Arkloyd]

Nor is yahweh's endorsement of slavery and its indulgence in the evil act of *torture.*

[@janethayes5941]

Right? It's toxic!

[@CAngel57ful]

Out of all of the podcasts that I have listened to this one is just about my favorite one. I have never heard of this lady before today and she is refreshingly wonderful.

[@CAngel57ful]

Oh my goodness I'm so dyslexic, I meant to say wonderfully refreshing.

[@ElveeKaye]

CAngel57ful Either way works. :o]

[@paxmule]

She rocks.

[@SIMKINETICS]

Dr Tarico is exceptionally clear-minded. Seth's in good form too. This is an excellent interview. It's interesting to hear what a professional student of human behavior has to say about the subject at hand.

[@grumylynn]

Thank you Seth, for this interview with Valerie Tarico. It was right on target with helping me in my post Christian journey. The most important sentence which helped me tremendously (among others) is once she quit making excuses, it all went away. It brought into more focus for me. Brilliant! Thank you!

[@BenotzJoe]

Nailed It! Dr. Val's answer to the caller's question about the meaning of life was perfect, and the host's follow on about no afterlife was also excellent.

[@Templetonq]

"Issues of meaning and morality are at the very heart of what it means to be a human being". Exactly! Believers do not have anything that nonbelievers lack.

[@Voland0]

The *preacher*: "I'm confused at that part." (0:30:47) = "You're right; I can't refute it. I don't know what to say to that to defend my position."

[@billkeon880]

yup. typical. he doesn't ask for clarification or have some time to think about it. he doesn't want to

[@TheBeatle49]

I think he didn't understand what Seth said. Neither did I!

[@BigMTBrain]

Wow! Dr. Valerie Tarico is great! I love listening to people who can flow with such precision and insightfulness. I'm definitely going to follow her blog and subscribe to her KZbin channel, and I know two people who will be receiving her book for Christmas. :)

[@opmike343]

Also interesting how many Christians will on one hand assert that there is no morality, no moral compass without the Bible and God, but on the other hand they'll go through the Bible and toss out or otherwise ascribe to corruption all of the morally reprehensible things in it. "My God wouldn't do those things. That's man's doing, not God's." Many fail to see that you must first have a moral compass of your own if you're to assess whether or not something you're hearing is what you'd consider "moral" in the first place.

[@rorytennes8576]

opmike343 bingo

[@Correctrix]

They’ll just say that god put a moral compass in your soul, so that you can detect corrupted versions of scripture, and thus you can reject the Koran and certain Bible verses.

[@dionettaeon]

Correctrix; Then they'd have to answer up to why some people's moral compasses are so far off, and also that free will argument.

[@patrick764]

One of the best TTAs that I’ve listened to so far.

[@sogghartha]

For me it's really simple: 'spiritual' means 'emotional'. They're emotions you feel, no more, no less.

[@graceh4582]

I have a deeply held belief in genies, based on the appearance of one in the film Alladin. I believe in faries because of Peter Pan. I believe in talking puppets because of Pinnochio. Sound stupid? That's how people sound using the Bible to "prove" Christianity.

[@cruzingracie3081]

Thank you for providing the web with intellectual and respectful discourse between both sides!

[@Brascofarian]

so pleased to hear Dr Bob is gonna be on the show next week. He's great!

[@0myjoe]

That was really good. This ep was like the atheist experience when theists calls and give their arguments in a positive intellectual way and question their beliefs. i love it

[@felipehernandez-pedroza8288]

"I have no idea what you are talking about." That is how I always felt on Sunday mass when the pastor was giving his sermon. It was so difficult to follow especially when they are making no sense. I have learned more in the past year since I deconverted than in the over 30 years I was a Christian.

[@Piddeaux]

"Why do I have to search for god? If god wants me to find him why make it so difficult?

[@adropofgoldensun27]

So far as I can remember there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. Bertrand Russell

[@bowlsallbroken]

I've been suggesting in your comments you try and get Dr. Tarico as a guest for probably a year/year and a half now. I'm really psyched to listen to this.

[@drshellkinggmailcom]

There have been repeated surveys of physicians about their religious belief and we psychiatrists are the least religious of all doctors for the last several years. It’s not surprising really, and neurologists routinely come in at second place.

[@SaunaFinland]

I just argued about morality with a theist, who claimed that "God's subjective decisions are objective" and when I tried to make analogies to mathematics he claimed "1+1=2 is just a subjective definition, 1+1=1+1+1 (or 2=3) could be just as true." This was after he justified the killing of infants. I guess some people refuse to give up even when cornered.

[@7secondad]

One of the better conversations of non belief I've heard in a long time. Good job!

[@michelebriere9569]

I'm a humanist. To me, spiritual is an outlook. It's a personal POV, which has nothing to do with anyone else's beliefs, even though we are all connected as living things. I find the language to be poetry, while still being an airchair science fan. I think being spiritual, is being a humanist.

[@skellymom]

YAY! Valerie's video series on youtube under TrustingDoubt is awesome! Kudos to my friend on youtube, TruthSurge, who did a fantastic job on all the graphics for Valerie's vids. Glad you guys are getting air time!!!

[@Tonyblack261]

Great guest, Seth! The pastor that called in was struggling to make sense of the things that he believes.

[@spaceghost8995]

He isn't struggling . He just assumes the god is loving and good. He ignores all that might say otherwise.

[@MrStillmans]

Regarding the term "spiritual", I prefer the word "emotional" instead. Sorry that it lacks glory, but when we add glory, we dip into the realm of lies. In reality, spiritual feelings are just emotions.

[@tofu_golem]

Clarification: spirituality is a feeling that can be induced in a laboratory.

[@jeova0sanctus0unus]

There is nothing wrong with being emotional. I am quite Emotional, for better or worse (often worse).

[@dionettaeon]

On good terms I'd call it euphoria, on bad terms I'd call it hysteria.

[@subaduck]

Dr. Valerie's transition to non-faith is almost identical to my own. An interesting and smart discussion. Liked.

[@QuidamByMoonlight]

@Seth Andrews You and your guest handled that caller so well. Street Epistemologists would be proud :)

[@bradjbourgeois73]

I love Valerie's channel, thanks for the interview Seth!

[@billkeon880]

Valerie is AWESOME. Trusting Doubt is great and all her youtube videos are fantastic. A must watch for anybody. Btw Hitchens also used the word 'numinous' which can have a secular meaning

[@kevindemars7328]

I'm in awe over this pod keep up the good work.

[@SeanTalksTooMuch]

As I health science student I was taught that "spiritual health" pertains to a having a set of ideas or principals that give meaning to action. By this definition religion/supernaturalism is always spiritual but spirituality is not necessarily supernatural. So in the old "mind body spirit" trinity, the body is analogous to a car, the mind is the driver, and the spirit is the gas in the tank.

[@Titania1]

Thoroughly enjoyed the podcast. Keep up the good work.

[@HumanisticJones]

In the discussion of having a better word for "spiritual" experiences, sometimes you just have to borrow one from another language, in much the same way that no other word means Schadenfreude. The word I've personally started using for anything that one might call a spiritual experience is the Japanese word Yūgen. It's meaning suggests that something is beyond what your words can describe, too deep to fully grasp, but isn't an allusion to another plane or reality. It is merely the acknowledgement of the beauty in an experience that reminds us that we are very small and limited and that the world is very large and mysterious.

[@spaceghost8995]

We are not limited.

[@HexerPsy]

That feeling of awe or spiritual feeling - i think it is about being impressed. Something resonates with you and gives a deep feeling at your core - probably an emotion we are deeply wired for. Everybody knows the experience and you can get it from many different situations. If you look up the definition at thefreedictionary of 'awe': "A mixed emotion of reverence, respect, dread, and wonder inspired by authority, genius, great beauty, sublimity, or might" Wouldn't that make for a great survival benefit when seeing some awe inspiring beast, a leader, seeing green mountainy landscapes? I read somewhere that the feeling of awe is also very useful when experienced in groups, or part of a collective. It would help to lose yourself and work for the benefit of the group. It could lead to self sacrifice and people digging deeper for each other. Similar to what one would experience in an army or church.

[@markpanko7732]

It is thinking like this that I have come to the conclusion that there is no god , never was , is and never will be.

[@dougzembiec9995]

by saying gods word can be changed and destroyed tells you it wasn't gods word to start off with

[@adropofgoldensun27]

“The Bible has noble poetry in it… and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies.” - Mark Twain

[@216trixie]

I had a "spiritual" experience when I was seventeen, that turned me from an atheist into a believer. Lasted about a dozen years. Pisses me off.

[@216trixie]

@JB I have no idea what you're talking about. I said I was an atheist. From childhood. At age 17 I had my first episode, neocortical temporal lobe epilepsy. Brain damage. Triggered an instant God belief, lasted about a dozen years. I was a born again christian, went to Biola university, I was a youth leader worship leader youth pastor and Street evangelist. Very committed to Jesus and his message. Thankfully I am an atheist again it only lasted a dozen years. I'm 61 now and doing just fine thank you God believe is not good. Fantasy. And hi to me from 8 years ago. I'm doing great.

[@arthurhunt642]

There is only One perfect word. It's spelled PERFECT!

[@spaceghost8995]

At the end of the call the pastor said "I'm just searching for truth". That is NOT true. He isn't searching for truth, he's only searching for the god he already believes in!

[@Jaybird196]

I love her TrustingDoubt videos! She's so very insightful :) .

[@margaretjohnson6259]

at seven years old, catholic, told non-catholics went to hell, i didn't believe it. i figured it was just a way to keep catholics catholic. i don't think i ever actually believed anyone went to hell. it didn't make sense, but at seven i didn't have the cognition to process it fully. no, i never told my parents or anyone that i just wasn't buying the hell bit. i left catholicism when i was 19 and never went back.

[@kingcarcas1349]

The episode I was waiting for thanks Seth!

[@PluckySmurf]

I am an atheist, but I do believe that human beings are spiritual creatures. I equate it with our "spark"... of awareness... or joys our pains, our emotions, passions, curiousity, empathy. I don't believe we have "souls" per say, or that there is an afterlife, but I do believe the very atoms in our body pass energy on to other things when we cease.

[@PluckySmurf]

To that, I can only respond that I can't assert any certainty, but I was being whimsical and didn't mean to present marvel/wonderment as a fact. Perhaps I should have expressed it as a "hope" instead and associate the inspiration for that from the meme going around, that we're all made of stardust... and a fondness for the imagery presented in the fictional stories of "His Dark Materials" by Philip Pullman. It was never my intention to assert any authority. And I would readily shy-away from any arrogance of human significance in the scheme of reality.

[@christopherwald9960]

Lots of things are not quantifiable yet. We would not have found the Higgs-Boson particle or the neutrino if someone did not believe it was out there first.

[@christopherwald9960]

Lots of mathmatical hypothesis are not proven or proven wrong. Until then the mathematician believes in something that he/she thinks is quantifiable. So yes, they have to wait and see. Ether one of the particles mentioned could have been disproven, and something else found to be true.

[@PluckySmurf]

***** Essentially. : ) Though that drains a little bit of the romance out of it. ha ha

[@WiseSnake]

I seem to always underestimate these preachers. They sound so reasonable at first _then_ they begin running in circles when you start questioning them.

[@un2mensch]

49:30 - regarding the feeling of awe, Hitchens often employed the term "the numinous", which isn't itself free of supernatural connotations, but numinous is a fucking cool world, regardless.

[@TedApelt]

Seth makes a good point when he asks why God has such a hard time communicating his message to us that less than a third of all humans who believe in him are correct about such basics as what his name is and what he wants from us in broad general terms.

[@Jairan78]

You cannot disprove the existence of Santa, Freddy Kruger or the Genie from Aladdin. So they must be real too....Now we're both morons. Absence of evidence doesn't mean anything, but it doesn't permit assertions either.

[@IngetKant]

It's irksome to me how many atheist latch on to spirituality and try desperately to find some "higher meaning." I fail to see why people think meaning is such an important thing to have. I, as a nihilist, consistently find myself to be more satisfied with life then people who waste time seeking higher meaning.

[@anthonymervin4499]

It seems this minister does his grocery shopping at the local dump. I pity him, but it took me a long time too.

[@ozlemaktas6446]

Listen to Abraham Hicks teachings, it puts all of this into perspective.

[@timothymostad8968]

This show keep's getting better each week !! Thank you TTA

[@kayallen7603]

I read the Bible in my early teens, and then stepped back and thought about the Bible/Christianity/God and so on, as a whole and in its entirety, in the context of - Can I retain any self-respect if I worshipped, and all that entailed, this religion? My answer was NO. The God was just 'a human writ large' much like Zeus, Odin, et al. The role of women was far too servile. The religion was based upon fear...God resembled nothing more than a Mafia don. Not for me. This was in late 1960's early 70's - beatniks, hippies, Kent State, Vietnam, Civil and Women's Rights. Challenge and Question everything. It was a great time to grow up in because no knowledge was deemed off-limits. Science became my thing. College, husband, kids, job - it was only later, the pursuit of knowledge being a life-long endeavor, that I began philosophy beginning with Epicurus and proceeding the humanists and free-thinkers, Ingersoll, Hitchens and so forth, that I understood how wondrous being free from religion actually had been throughout my life. Being an atheist is GREAT !!

[@innbydelse]

Love her video series!

[@216trixie]

Spiritual means to me, our connectedness to everyone and everything.

[@spaceghost8995]

We are not connected though.

[@216trixie]

@@spaceghost8995 Of course we are. Every point in the universe connects to every other point. And hi to me from 8 years ago.

[@spaceghost8995]

@@216trixie My atoms can be connected to other things of course but unless a spirit can be defined and demonstrated to exist IDK what spiritually connected would mean. Yes 8 years ago we watched this? Hard to believe.

[@216trixie]

@@spaceghost8995 I agree that we can't identify a spirit. I don't believe we have one. So the word spiritual is kind of misleading. It just retains some meaning for me from past experiences.

[@rungavagairun]

Great episode.

[@0myjoe]

The goal isn't to prove atheism its to ask questions and to find whether there is truth in theism or not

[@RemixPicture]

I can't download this episode because the MP3 file link won't work. I think Blogtalkradio is having problems. :(

[@TheRadiofox]

The website is running slow for some reason. The save option appears slow to show up after I right - click -> save link as... then about several seconds later it is finally appearing. So maybe the site is functioning again properly, but it is still a bit slow.

[@tklyte]

I think I just found my passion. It's midlife for me and I now know what I'm supposed to do with the rest of my life.

[@jrusselison]

It is mind boggling that religious people will praise the goodness of their god while justifying their evilness. I wish these same people experience these evils and see for themselves the reality :(

[@TheWitchofCrows]

I love how there is a ad for going to the Holy Land before the show! lol

[@pickitflipit]

It's to the point where every video I watch on YT on skeptic/atheism these HolyLand ads come up. Just watched a Steve Shives video and it was the exact same thing.

[@kapwns]

pickitflipit pssst....adblock

[@0myjoe]

When the christian said 'im confused by that part' means you're right i'll go think about it lol

[@mattp.158]

I still don't like the term "spiritual" to be honest. My sister says she's spiritual and all that means is that she believes in horoscopes, deism, and lovy-wubby type of stuff that she gets from random facebook posts.

[@Lxrdwolf666]

Great podcast!

[@Kuratla]

Looking forward to next week's show. I've been interested to hear what the reaction to Atwill's Caesar's Messiah is among the atheistic community. Accurate or not, it's a hell of an interesting theory that he has.

[@markaaron9957]

The problem with the first caller is that he's a common everyday ordinary garden variety woo-meister. Incorrectly pronouncing the word Tao was very telling to me.

[@peculiarman]

A sense of AWE? Why not think of it as the apprehension of naturalistic aesthetics?

[@zombiesingularity]

After Krauss you should try to get Daniel Dennett or Steven Pinker on, perhaps.

[@joshuaneal7552]

“That’s man’s teaching, I believe. The separation from me and all eternity. You have, in history, liars, thieves, and stuff. They will naturally be forgotten about. They will be found out. _We are just a blink in the span of time…_ and the beautiful thing about that is if your blink is full of hatred and any of those other parts that-- 'alright, well, I lied about this to use people…' That wlll be brought to light…”

[@unit0033]

dont think anyone knows what the preacher is talking about! he cant defend this old man written book and seems deluded and blinded by his beliefs

[@JoseChavez-gd3ws]

Valerie Tarico .amising time thanks

[@richardkuhlman7425]

The title of this podcast attracted me by itself. I have always felt the god of the bible was a complete psycho. He condemns ALL mankind through the rest of time for a MISTAKE by the 'original parents' that were clearly DECEIVED, fooled. What a compassionate god! psssshah!!! Then he would strike you dead for practically sneezing wrongly. Not at all loving. Not at all. A loving father would have provided food and shelter freely and completely for all earthkind, not a competition for work and money and everything else that brings such stress in survival. At best a champion at 'child endangerment'. A maniacal brute that destroys anyone who cannot understand him. How did things go from a blissful, ethereal "heaven" to the first created material beings being barbaric, carnivorous, predatory animals, ultimately that describing man too. What a dipshit to toss down his 'rebellious angels' to earth where mankind was just starting out!!! I mean, if he couldn't contain the devil and demons himself, what chance would MAN have? Like tossing a child molester into a kindergarten! MORON, ASSHOLE, IDIOT for a god and "leader". Never could get past that when I was around 7 and beyond.

[@RavenTreasures]

I would love to have a chat with you one day Seth

[@christallh24]

I'm not with that whole "spiritual", I don't dig. Wish more people had the courage and bravery to just them people they're atheist. But I still love Valerie, just don't agree with her on the whole spiritualist what's to me, is nonsense.

[@zencat999]

religion is starting from an unproven premiss. it is assuming that godz exist. we need proofs or evidence to that assertion. the book called the bible is not proof. it is the written account of the claim. if one starts from a faulty premiss, i.e. unproven, no proofs or evidence, than ones claim can be dismissed without proofs or evidence, and any following points are baseless because one has not proven ones base premiss. and this is applied to anything called "metaphysical".

[@geeboom]

I tend to agree with the interviewer about using the term spiritual. It's not really the bravest or most honest way to convey to another that one is an atheist.

[@cameronyu2413]

I don't think people should not use the term atheism because believers sometimes don't understand what it is. According to that we might as well not use the term physicist or biologist because not everyone understands those terms on the level the person in the profession does. We merely need to explain what atheism means to believers who don't understand it properly so they can get a better understanding.

[@PhilosophicalVlogs]

robert m. price on next week? awesome!

[@adropofgoldensun27]

The preacher wonders why government has gotten worse, could it be because of the influence of christianity on our laws? I say yes, church and state should remain separate and not influencing laws on all.

[@MrRobwave]

The parrot impression made me lol.

[@GodWorksOut]

They do all these studies on God and then try to deny His existence. It is sad.

[@11ammas]

A loving parent wouldn't have set the house on fire in the first place.

[@v2099]

to be honest i am rather impressed with the 1st caller, i tot he was going to go defensive and start preaching. but all in all i found the callers this time very pleasent

[@rorytennes8576]

This preacher is simply not going to answer the question about the imperfect word of God. He's ducking and dodging every way you can making excuses. By the way I love listening to you Valerie Tarico

[@billkeon880]

the caller at 52:00 asks about how god is excused for atrocities - usually it's excused because since god created us, he can do anything he wants with us. But theists will often be stopped and have cognitive dissonance and get them thinking with the following retort. You are a creation of your parents. Does that give them the right to abuse you or kill you for any reason? Do you have all rights over your own children? Could you torture them without this being absolutely immoral? No. Neither can 'god'.

[@singingfedexmanjoshcampbel1614]

Always fun to hear the woke Christian arguments by those who think they're not brainwashed

[@23angelful]

the "current" was there before god,is is 0 i.e. the beginnig,the "current" is minus one,i.e. -1.and will be there after,well done for having the pastor on though.

[@O2BSoLucky]

Truthsurge or Steve Shives would make a good podcast. I think there is something interesting in hearing the 'everyman' view of religion and non-religion. People who haven't academically or professionally specialised in religion/non religion. But who are passionate enough about the subject anyway.

[@RobDegrey]

"Thou shall wash thy hands after thou shits" : 11th commandment.

[@melissasahagunheathen2594]

lol

[@rorytennes8576]

Rob Degrey only after you wipe your butt. some don't wipe. lol

[@miguelquintana8076]

I think it's awful that religious counciling at times causes for harm than good. The people get away with it by blaming an imaginary being. It's true when when they said that Professionals would be charged with Mal practices if they pulled the same shit.

[@businessburd2071]

31:00 "Look at me I'm a Target!!!!!"

[@TheQueendom-Au]

I totally understand the DR's position on the term "spiritual". I do on the other hand completely disagree with her idea that CPS is good or helpful to children. Its actually a child trafficking ring. And childrens rights are absolutely an extension of the parent and do not stand alone. This is the only way to keep government in its place and prevent overreaching which is happening now!

[@SilentEcho9194]

If we only knew at the time of this podcast how crazy Michele Bachmann really is...