TTA Podcast 244: Can I Talk You Out of Your Faith?

[@merinsan]

I had a conversation with my chinese teacher the other day, which was similar to what you guys were talking about. By the end of the conversation, she seemed unsure about her beliefs, and the conversation was literally 5 minutes also. It also made me feel a little bad actually. Also, I just need to say "Anthony Magnabosco" is such an awesome name!

[@CrunchyDark]

I've heard this show for a long time and this is one of the best I've heard. Well done my friend.

[@Sciguy95]

I almost talked someone out of their faith. He said he really liked listening to me talk about religion because i was really good at using logic. Later he came up to me and asked me to stop talking about it because i was starting to make him lose his faith.

[@joycesky5041]

Lol…starting to make them lose their faith…that’s exactly our whole point.

[@adropofgoldensun27]

The point of "shunning", in some religions is so that the believer is not allowed to speak to persons who may talk them into reasoning out of their faith. No other literature or points of view are allowed and extremely discouraged for the same reason.

[@rad4life1]

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful. - Senica 4-65 CE

[@rad4life1]

Kitty BooBoo Oh I understand the difference. You can have faith in many things, oneself, other people, the weather even ect. However when one has faith in religion, they put themselves at risk.

[@rad4life1]

Kitty BooBoo too bad

[@rad4life1]

Kitty BooBoo I am so sorry you had to experience that! That is horrible and you have my empathy. But putting your trust in this socalled "God" of yours says that it was meant to happen and that he stood idly by and watched it happen and did nothing. At the very least put trust in yourself, only you know better.

[@BobWidlefish]

Dr. Boghossian is a hero for his incredible efforts to help people find more reliable ways of understanding the world. He's surely helped more people improve their epistemology than most of us ever will.

[@SlideRulePirate]

When I was at college I had a friend who, for some unknown reason, thought that Bulls had horns and that Cows didn't. Myself and others tried to convince him this was not the case but without a farm on hand we were unsuccessful and the guy was immovable and having other diversions it was forgotten. Time passes. During a field trip, out of the vehicle window, we see a field full of cattle. The topic is remembered and the brute fact that the field is occupied by Cow shaped animals featuring both udders and horns is pointed out to the city boy and he concedes. Time passes And he just goes back on the old Cows can't have horns line and is as immovable as before. I really have no idea what the hell was going on there. You may convince a person but they have to remain convinced. They may just forget. They may decide that they were tricked or be persuaded that they've been tricked. They may simply be unable to move their minds far because something else has got them by the balls. It's frustrating but to really finish the job mere undeniable, cow-sized, tangible, honking-great-in-your-face proof may not enough.

[@julianmoore7585]

Lately, as in this podcast, I've heard several influential, secular people attribute to the late, great Christopher Hitchens the quote regarding, "If you want good people to do bad things, this takes _religion_." No -- In his lifetime, Hitch spoke more than one man's quota of memorable words, but this was a saying he _borrowed_ often, as does Richard Dawkins, from Nobel laureate Steven Weinberg, and it goes, *"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."*

[@SandyCheeks1896]

Wow. It was like Miguel, and I imagine most faithful people, had NEVER stopped and considered if they had been born into different circumstances. Or why billions of other people hold contrasting beliefs. Or critically thought about anything. And I say al of these negative things, yet I was a Christian for 18 years. It's amazing what faith can do... To your mind. I have no memory of being that completely obtuse and unaware of what existed outside of my own bubble, yet that's what I had to have been like to sustain my faith. Incredible.

[@Mariomario-gt4oy]

much respect to Peter B. his way Is a very good approach. many people react differently of course, but, as Seth said, it is another tool to use

[@XxBaconPandaxX]

I adore positive conversations like these. Its so much more productive!

[@edselby]

I need to read that book again :) There is so much to this technique that is directly relatable to "effective" Christian evangelical techniques. I learned much of this when I was in my born again days. Interesting to see it being used for other purposes

[@tobiashagstrom4168]

I did something similar to that at my university once, when I ran into someone talking about some group that wasn't explicitly christian, but was probably hoping to sneak in some Jesus or suggestions of Jesus. In hindsight, there where a lot of arguments that I should have made and responses that i forgot, and I looked a bit bad at times, but what I did manage to do was explain the problem with faith and divine experiences. I basically said that if one person can powerfully feel the presence of the Holy Spirit, while another person has Krishna vividly appear before him, then both of them can't be right, so at least one of them must be wrong, and that must mean that the human mind does indeed have the abilities to give you what you perceive as divine experiences, and even if one of the experiences is genuine, we have no means by which to determine which one is. Evidence that supports several, mutually exclusive conclusions isn't evidence for any of them, and it doesn't make sense that any god would reveal himself in a way that's indistinguishable from imagining things. I know I must've gotten through to him and made him think, because he quite honestly expressed concerns about the implications of what I said, and then fell back on the supposed historical evidence for Jesus to validate his belief, either because he was really convinced that there was good evidence there, or just as an understandable way to not feel defeated before we parted.

[@tobiashagstrom4168]

+Tobias Hagström I'm still hoping ot run into him again, only so that I can vainly redo some of the arguments I messed up. He said something about how to him, the fact that the universe started simple and then developed complexity indicates ot him that it was set up to develop that way. Not being an argument I've previously heard, and not being used to arguing in person, or in my native language for that matter, I made some attempt at an argument to point out how the universe is hostile and finite, and doesn't appear to be held together by magic, but it mostly came out as a bunch of confused ramblings that never really went anywhere. What I should've said was that the simplicity of the early universe is more evidence against god, than for god, as I only require the assumption that the supposedly first and most basal feature of existence itself was a primal, energetic event, while he has to make the assumption that existence in its most basal, ancient and unrefined form contains an entity, that is coherent, complex, intentional, ambitious, knowledgable, personal, opinionated, inherently authoritative and has an effective ability to cause event to happen using his will. I should also probably have pointed out that the big Bible doesn't exactly hint at the universe starting with a big bang either.

[@shocfacter]

It would be nice to always be able to use this passive, logical question asking approach all the time but some people, like mentioned in the recording, run away and cover their ears if they get the slightest whiff of anything that may put doubt in their heads. And what really pisses me off is that those same people will turn around and go out and try to interject their God and religion into any and all conversations they have with anyone else and its expected of them to stand there and listen. Let an atheist fire back with counter statements and they get this attitude like, "How dare you question my God!" I say, How dare you try to force your God on ME!

[@adropofgoldensun27]

The point of "shunning", in some religions is so that the believer is not allowed to speak to persons who may talk them into reasoning out of their faith. No other literature or points of view are allowed and extremely discouraged for the same reason.

[@Berbs73]

The street conversation was awesome. Thanks for sharing!

[@MissAPierce]

Socrates was a genius. (rolling eyes at self...like I'm passing on new info or something). It never fails to amaze me how spectacularly effective the Socratic method is, especially if the questioner remains open.

[@truvelocity]

This has been exactly how I've spoken to people for years! This is why I have close friends who are both fundamentalists and atheists and agnostics and moderates. Because, I talk to them in that manner. I partner with them and respect their personal space. I respect their autonomy.

[@mayfly5049]

I thoroughly enjoy watching Anthony's videos and live broadcasts on periscope. Keep em' coming!!!

[@dnr0]

This has to be one of the pest pod cast you have ever uploaded. I have great respect for you and love the show, and am envious of the amazing people you have been able to hold conversations with. After this show my head was spinning, Ill have to listen to it at lease two more times and research Dr Boghossian. Thanks for the show...

[@Troubleshooter125]

My question regarding Makayla would be this: what happens with her when she goes back to her family and associates? As a black woman, she faces enormous pressure from the African-American community to maintain her faith and allegiance to the church. If indeed she can face up to that pressure, my hat is totally off to her, but if not, I can't really blame her either. Even as a white man, I can see at least in part the sub-rosa religious coercion people like Makayla face in their daily lives. I should mention as it comes to that as well: a filmmaker named Jeremiah Camara has made a brilliant piece: _Contradiction: A Question of Faith_, which takes a hard look at Christianity in the African-American community and questions what that faith really accomplishes for them. I recommend it highly.

[@gpgara]

I think compassion and rapport and empathy is really crucial. And we underestimate how much. Good on these people. I also think what Seth said at the end is very true: I was too pissed off at being lied to, and so I started being a bit belligerent as a result. More than I would be naturally - I was unsettled and surprised at myself. But if, as we claim we do, we really do want people to believe as many true things as possible and disbelieve in as many false things as possible; if we want to really make them understand why doubt is so beautiful and essential in all things; if we want to make critical-thinkers and evidence-searchers out of people; if we want to encourage them to think for themselves and to love reason and evidence and science, then this is the correct approach. Yes, I myself was reasoned out of my faith through science by people like Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris, who take a harder, more mocking approach to debunking religious belief. But since many of us also claim to be humanists, I think this right here it's the right thing. To seize our most humane instincts and our most curious selves to build a relationship with people. Them seeing doubt and rationality as a virtue comes as a bonus. Great, great video.

[@Wildcard120]

As a believer I found this most interesting for two reasons. one it is a good way to have a conversation and reason together. two the Church needs to do a much better job of desipleship. keep watching!

[@TrthBHld]

Amen.

[@Starcrash6984]

I loved Boghossian's book "A Manual for Creating Atheists", but it should be noted that the Socratic method suggested inside doesn't always lead one to a rational answer. The one part of the book that troubled me was a discussion with a pot-smoking 10th grader. Peter tried to talk him out of it by convincing him that it's "harmful", thus wrong. He told the 10th grader, "So if it harms you, you shouldn't have the right to do it, no?". The 10th grader responded, "But a lotta stuff harms me and I'm allowed to do those things." This reply was meant to point out to Peter that Peter had equivocated "harm" by meaning both harm to others (an ethical violation) and harm to oneself (not a violation of ethics); these are typically seen by two different standards, and in other contexts I imagine that Peter would agree that harming oneself is "allowed". But instead Peter claimed, "but we are not talking about a lot of stuff, we are talking about the right to do something that harms you", missing the point completely; the 10th grader was talking "about the right to do something that harms you", and making it clear that he felt that he had that right. I like the Socratic method, but even questions can be leading questions, filled with bias and implying a "correct" viewpoint. We should all be inclined to self-examination that such questions lead us into, but not all of that examination is objective when someone's holding our hand and giving us little pushes in a specific direction.

[@abakrs40]

Really enjoyed the program. Good thoughtful material and I will put it on my "to read" list. The biggest take away for me was honesty. Being honest with myself, especially in the area of my former "faith" has become one of my most cherished values. I like to begin my evaluations of information with this basic thought, "There is a high probability that there is a critical flaw in my logic." If I am honest about my potential of being incorrect, then I can be open to finding truth.

[@hiwayM9]

I am one of those unfortunate angry atheists who desperately needs a solid measure of pragmatism mixed with patience in injection form, and will be rushing over to pick up some form of Dr. Boghossian's book because while I am severely pissed, I am also fully aware I am getting nowhere with it. Hell- it is counterproductive beyond belief (pun intended) Sincerely- I thank you for the last hour and a half- it was humbling from start to finish.

[@frankdouglas8146]

I just finished the book myself. it really helped put this strategy into perspective for me. I was in the same boat. but don't get stuck in thinking there is no other way. I have seen all of anthonys videos and he has gotten really good at it.

[@IJAbraham]

+Hiway: Without a personal relationship with God you will never be complete; you will always perceive that something missing in your life. One can live a good life without knowledge of God. However, a profound knowledge of God provides completeness; it sanctifies the soul and gives a special meaning to our existence that transcends the mundane philosophical institutions and construct of men (humankind) Of significant importance is the understanding that God does not infer religion although religion tends to imply some god.

[@hiwayM9]

IJAbraham Can you define "completeness" and what exactly does it mean to "sanctify" the soul? How about defining that "special meaning" please? Do you think it is productive to tell someone they will never be something, or will be something if they don't follow your perceptions of religion?

[@frankdouglas8146]

+Hiway I also feel that a definition of complete is key here. can you provide that to us? it will help us further the conversation.

[@frankdouglas8146]

+Frank Douglas also "soul." can you define soul as well?

[@Opulent_oatmeal]

I love that the commercial that ran before the podcast was the "A.D. - The Bible Continues" trailer.

[@nuclearusa16120]

I have always been a fan of the Socratic method for discourse. However i am lost on how to engage people who talk over you or interrupt you while speaking. I usually just walk away nicely.

[@austinm419]

Loved this talk. Thanks for having Anthony and Peter on!

[@rebeccaranger1566]

This technique is brilliant. Very subtle, yet very effective.

[@Siberius-]

Oh awesome, I started watching Anthony Magnabosco not long ago, someone in the comment section of this channel mentioned him. Should be a good podcast. Edit: It wasssssss a good podcast lol, I'm a genius!

[@SlayerSlayn]

I want to see him try this with Mississippi christians and see how long he can go before they call him a devil worshipper and walk away.

[@jinn_1891]

love Anthony, he is like some kind of truth guru, with zen-like demeanour he communicates well.

[@ianyboo]

during the third or fourth audio clip the guy is talking about his mother who had an experience she attributes to her god sending a dog to protect her while walking down the street. I have been told by countless believers that the reason suffering happens is because we have been given free will, I ask them why there God does not intervene to help people and they say he can't because that would take away our free will. So I think the obvious question is does his mom still have free will?

[@RobGravelle]

+Virtual Willis Remember that dog spelled backwards is God. (actually doG[?])

[@garynorthtruro]

Honest and open is not a substitute for a basic understanding of the subject. The participants are not used to considering the basis for their belief. Most are limited to the immediacy of the moment.

[@CampingforCool41]

Excellent episode. I think there's times and places for different strategies, but this is clearly one of the most effective for the majority of people.

[@dannysnee4945]

CampingforCool41 How do you know that it works for the majority ?

[@FramedArchitecture]

In my opinion, this is one of the best episodes you've ever produced, and the best of this year. For one, it provides concrete examples of atheists speaking to believers, something along the lines of the New Covenant Group's "The Place". For another, it checks what I've long seen as an unnecessarily combative way of dealing with people who disagree with you on fundamental issues like religion, and thus is relevant to pursuing conversation on _any_ topic.

[@jgordon707]

This is part of the genius of the "tell us what you believe and why?" from the AE people. I probably wouldn't consider going out to talk to people like this. I might find myself being confronted with a co-worker or family member, and talking about them this way might be helpful.

[@cameronyu2413]

I would say that some people can not or will not become atheists and some people will. Then there are people like me who never bought into religion despite being raised by Catholic parents. It always seemed crazy to me even as a kid.

[@cloejarozenski3097]

Asking questions, if done correctly, is the most effective way of luring the believer out of their faith. You could kill the sheep with brute force, but it's easier to lead the sheep into the slaughterhouse.

[@BlasterMaster80]

+Cloe Jarozenski I think it's more like leading a horse to water.

[@Mariomario-gt4oy]

well different people react differently. all approaches matter, but this is definitely effective

[@shade9592]

+Cloe Jarozenski I don't think that comparing talking someone out of their faith to killing a sheep is a good idea...

[@chestbuster1987]

+Cloe Jarozenski Using a metaphor like that might not be the best tactic though

[@uzimyspecial]

+shade_grey They're both REALLY fun. I'm a bad person.

[@vincentdaniels2596]

I know Dr. Boghissian said he wasn't interested in talking to apologist, but I would love to see a conversation between him and Ray Comfort or Anthony and Ray Comfort. If he experienced one instance of doubt (of course I know this probably wouldn't happen) that would make my day!

[@tearsofsoy4091]

only had a chance to listen to part of this episode but it's one of the better ones I have heard in a while. good stuff!

[@reachinghigher4259]

I checked out your sponsor's site and was impressed. A lot of places, especially in medical, are claiming the 'made in germany' tag because the steel came from there but they were actually MADE in Pakistan by slum peasants in mud huts (which is apparently lawful, because the materials came from germany.) It's nice to see a thing actually made in the country it claims to be made in.

[@rungavagairun]

55:38 Funniest line in the show. "Would you rather spend a trillion years in heaven or a day in hell with a spoon?"

[@jebus6kryst]

+run_gavagai_run There is no spoon.

[@rungavagairun]

Maybe that's what it was about. :)

[@hueynrolf9272]

Great show! Well done and thanks, Seth!

[@dannysnee4945]

Heuyen Rolf Love the profile pic

[@skepticalbystander]

this episode was awesome, now my brain cogs are turning with new approach ideas :)

[@sanm101]

I love that the ad that played before the video for me was one for the Church of Scientology

[@positivistnullifidian3624]

+Nathan Stevens Likewise ... this 'church' appears to have a profound sense of the ironic.

[@greenytaddict]

+Nathan Stevens when i played it, it was a mormon commercial that came on, i'm like what's going on?!

[@positivistnullifidian3624]

greenytaddict Like all commercials, KZbin ads run out, and are replaced by new ones.

[@natashawilliamson3507]

I'm so happy! 3 of my favourite atheists all in one video!

[@AngelOfEvenfall]

Excellent! One of my favourite episodes!

[@Chamelionroses]

I like that there is books out there that help people use critical thought and exit cults.

[@philw4025]

I think I accidentally talked people out of faith once at a Catholic Student Association event by just saying, "By calling yourself Catholic, here are some of the things you believe..." It was intended as a starter to a talk, not as a way to never get re-invited and make people doubt.

[@analyticalman2620]

My powers of analysis are tingling...

[@drey01]

found it funny there was a commercial for "AD the bible continued" before the video started.

[@billkeon880]

ridicule on the macro level can be effective. A young gal caller on the Thinking Atheist podcast previous posting said the thing that turned her into an atheist was seeing George Carlin's youtube stand-up routine mocking ideas about god. I'm sure ridicule works in that way (not face to face) where the listener can reflect on it. Calmly reasoning with people would be the gold-standard if people had the time and patience. We need more of it for sure.

[@philipthomas97]

This was amazing thank you for helping me to understand this journey.

[@sophiaverbree5038]

I enjoyed this postcast. I learned something new today

[@ravenburneskushner1825]

Thank you. I really liked this episode. The only thing I kept wondering (and perhaps this has been addressed in other videos or is common knowledge in the atheist community) is why we need to "disabuse" people of their faith? Why can't we just leave people alone if they want to believe? I don't feel harmed by other people's faith, not unless they're trying to change laws or prevent people from having rights or being treated with dignity. Otherwise, who cares what they believe, if they're happy and productive members of society?

[@shanehorvath9711]

I know your comment is a few months old, but I stumbled on this podcast and I kept coming back to your comment while I was listening. Sometimes its not so much trying to "disabuse" people of their faith, but getting them to think critically and reasonably. Then maybe they wont be so quick to blindly vote, and put in power, people who say they have faith and belief in god, but use it as a means to pass legislation and change laws that marginalize, abuse, and dehumanize groups of people that are different from them.

[@MrChristerj]

The problem is that the believers rarely are happy just to believe. They very often want to push and force their faith on others and mold society according to their faith. Recently saw a clip from a fundamentalist church calling for death penalty for all HBTQ-people, which would be the case if they ruled society. Faith leading to genocide. A never ending genocide since in each new generation a certain percentage are HBTQ. Ok this church may be fringe but just look at the muslim world and how they treat women, HBTQ and how backwards it has made their societies corncerning science and openess.

[@HardChuck365]

Thanks for making these shows Seth.

[@Evitable]

I really... really like this.

[@dystoniaify]

The more hardline approaches can be helpful for people who are already doubting their religion. However, a person who is still fully invested in their religion first needs to examine their beliefs by the soft epistomolic approach. I was naturally inquisitive and questioning my family's religion from a young age. Many people aren't naturally this way. That person needs to be gently led to question their own beliefs. The person who is already questioning their religion might benefit from learning about the fact of evolution, Bible stories that they aren't aware of, etc. Mockery will hardly ever work to change minds. Done tastefully, mockery might help the person who is already leaving their religion. This is true for most beliefs.

[@BlasterMaster80]

This should be good two of my favorites.

[@DragonCharlz]

+BlasterMaster80 I loved Blaster Master as a kid btw, I still have the physical copy.

[@BlasterMaster80]

+DragonCharlz That's cool, me too. I think it defiantly set some high standards for games that came later. It was one of first games to be a side scroller and 3rd person shooter, I loved that aspect of the game. :D

[@alicee2952]

this is definitely one of mine!

[@frankdouglas8146]

mine too

[@adropofgoldensun27]

The point of "shunning", in some religions is so that the believer is not allowed to speak to persons who may talk them into reasoning them out of their faith. No other literature or points of view are allowed and extremely discouraged for the same reason.

[@texasvet2729]

Listening to the conversation between the believer and the guy questioning him. Maybe other people have had other experiences, but I've never been able to make it that long with a theist before they get really angry and shut it down.

[@WaitingAtheist]

+Blake Harllee you should go to Anthony's channel and power watch his encounters. It will blow your mind. Start from the oldest and see how he has progressed.

[@frankdouglas8146]

+WaitingAtheist very true. has improved a lot.

[@Shadowchild695]

It is amazing is how long it has been since Socrates supposedly lived, and yet there are so many people who are unfamiliar with the Socratic method. This is a huge failing of our education system. Critical thinking is perhaps the most important thing we could be teaching because it is the foundation of understanding everything. Rather than teaching people to memorize and accept information because it comes from an authority we should be teaching people how to think for themselves.

[@JangusMacintosh]

"Go to heaven for the climate. Go to hell for the company." - Mark Twain

[@MrTheKeyMann]

my favourite podcast yet....

[@ScipioAfricanusI]

In my profession, I am isolated as an atheist. I work in a homeless shelter in New York City. Although the notion of epistemology is fascinating, I feel that Humanism is paramount. If we are engaged in doing good and helping each other, that is paramount. I hope and aspire that my conduct is my most vital argument. Of course, I feel that a world with ubiquitous skepticism and secularism would be better. In the present, we should make our positions clear and strive to ameliorate suffering. Is that enough?

[@positivistnullifidian3624]

+ScipioAfricanusI To help others and alleviate human suffering should be at the heart of our value system. Peace.

[@ScipioAfricanusI]

+Positivist Nullifidian I agree. However, i feel that this is like cheating. if the standard is a Utilitarian one (do the greatest good for the greatest number), doesn't that already assume and conceded Humanism. If revealed Truth is correct a la religion then the dictate of god (S) should be what commands us and conformity to that would be the greatest good. I see religious faith and secular Humanism and skepticism as ultimately irreconcilable. In the short term we can all unite to do good. However, if this includes inculcating Reason, then there is an irreducible tension.

[@positivistnullifidian3624]

ScipioAfricanusI Well stated. Nearly all religions are organized hierarchically. That is to say, authoritarian in their structure. This obvious sham is meant to prop up the so-called First Estate (clergy), who have been, and continue to be, seen as having been 'called' by God. It is an absurd and degrading notion to elevate a class of (mostly) men who, in the end, can legitimately claim no more knowledge of the divine than any member of the Third Estate (common citizen). Among its many other advantages, secular humanism is essentially flat, with no such pecking order of piety.

[@ScipioAfricanusI]

+Positivist Nullifidian Thank you. However, i think that the entomological issues are interesting. Skepticism and faith are opposites. If Truth can be uncovered through a rational process and is amenable to reason and logic, then Truth through revelation and contact with the Gods' head are different normative systems. The former is through a process of reason and discovery. The latter is through discovery through revelation. They are, if not incompatible, at least mutually irrelevant. -Thats's what I think.

[@positivistnullifidian3624]

ScipioAfricanusI "Entomological [pertaining to insects] issues[?]" I think you probably meant either epistemological (the investigation of what distinguishes justified belief from opinion), or perhaps ontological (metaphysics pertaining to the meaning of being) ... am I right? Truth with a capital "T" is rather subjective, in my estimation. I prefer to substitute terms like 'facts' and 'reality,' which are indeed 'the truth' with a small "t." And here I would agree with you that facts consistent with reality can be acquired through observation, quantification and repetition ... i.e., the scientific method.

[@TheGbanMan]

The irony of watching this video being introduced by a Scientology advertisement is too great!! ;)

[@dannysnee4945]

Gregg Bannan Every time I watch an atheist video I get adverts for a bible app. The tags about religion and God must confuse our internet

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

I've been trying to do this on KZbin, that app would be very helpful .

[@jacobm.7352]

For anyone who is looking to join. Street epistemology has a Facebook page both public and private to engage with others for advice and practice. Please check them out!!!!!

[@pasainchina97]

+Jacob Maxon What are you preaching ?

[@jacobm.7352]

Not Preaching, Practicing open and honest dialogue about ones beliefs. It's just a friendly place to talk about these questions. If we can help each other, that's great.

[@jacobm.7352]

Can I ask you. Do you believe in a God?

[@pasainchina97]

Yes i did listen to the podcast, it was quite interesting but i couldn't help thinking that the Atheists religion is using Christian methods to talk people out of there faith. The example audio of pedro or whatever his name was was a bit weak but got the point across. Do i believe in God = Yes i do very much so, in fact you could say i got saved!

[@jacobm.7352]

Awesome, Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. I'd love to talk to you about this if you are interested. When you heard Anthony speak did it seem like a harmful way of examining ones beliefs?

[@harrygearhart4520]

I brought up a point with my neighbor much the same as Anthony's interview. I said "Isis is killing themselves, suicide bombers. They must be awfully convinced their god is real" My religious neighbor's head must be filled with concrete because it didn't sink in, he never wavered. He only said " your going to hell" I mean me looking at him, conversing with him, I can only think, man this guy really has it bad, he did say he's been a Christian for 70 years. Electric shock or even a lobotomy or both won't work on him. I keep flipping the switch, but no light comes on. Yeah he's got it bad, and just think how many millions of others got it bad? Wow what a sick world we have.

[@analyticalman2620]

Excellent video, thank you!

[@orphanblackops4608]

Listen to Denise's SE session. She is the end goal. If half the religious people to end up like her then there might be hope after all.

[@Lordradost]

This is refreshing.

[@orphanblackops4608]

The Atheist Experience had a Muslim who said there is no way to prove God but he still believes.

[@peterrivera8964]

Which episode was that

[@dannysnee4945]

It's from episode 752

[@dannysnee4945]

Not sure whether it's the same one that Orphan BlackOps is talking about

[@boardgamebrony]

That alleyway story that the kid with the muslim parent/catholic parent says reminds me of the chain emails that used to be sent about two decades ago where it talked about a woman who said she prayed before crossing through an alleyway alone with a creepy guy following her, then later saying he saw two big men with her and didn't attack her because she implied they were manifested angels. In other words, was the mom just parroting this story back to the kid? It's very familiar.

[@ErikJohnsonFMA]

really great show, guys. I will definitely be keeping my eye on the atheos app.

[@TheSultan03]

I have doubts that a lasting change is made in the vast majority of these cases, but I could be wrong. I'd love to see some follow up.

[@magnabosco210]

+The Sultan The video with Makayla was our second talk and a follow-up. You can find a link to the first chat with her in the video description field. But yes, it would be interesting to have a third and perhaps even fourth talk with her. If that happens, you will be able to find that in the Playlist: Makayla on my channel.

[@TheSultan03]

Great! I'll look into that. I find what you are doing to be fascinating. I hope you prove my assumptions wrong.

[@thespiritofhegel3487]

'Dass die anderen Wissenschaften, sie mögen es mit Räsonnieren, ohne die Philosophie, versuchen, soviel sie wollen, ohne sie nicht Leben, Geist, Wahrheit in ihnen zu haben vermögen'. 'Let the other sciences try to argue as much as they like without philosophy - without it they can have in them neither life, Spirit, nor truth'. - Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, 'Phänomenologie des Geistes', ('Phenomenology of Spirit'), §67, 1807.

[@adropofgoldensun27]

“When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a religion.” - Robert M. Pirsig

[@Genos_25]

could you add the links to the videos please? thanks

[@PRHILL9696]

Fascinating!

[@iaov]

The problem with talking to the religious is they are inherently dishonest about all matters of faith.

[@shelleyhopkins8073]

I guess my question is, why does one group always feel like they have to change the other group? I understand when I was Christian we were taught we had the words of life. If we didn’t teach the world they would not be saved. I guess I doubted even then because I struggled to want to teach others. I didn’t want them, the people I would have taught, to be depressed and fearful like I was. Now as an atheist I am much happier and perhaps I should want to go out and “convert” others, but what if that faith is what keeps them happy and sane? Who am I to try to push another person to think like me? Encouraging people to think and trust their own reasoning is good, I agree, but leading and pulling away from a tradition that is important to them is another thing. This is an older video, so maybe no one will see this, but I’d honestly like to know if there are others that worry about this like me. I’m new to this skeptic thinking and devouring all the videos and podcasts. Thanks.

[@jamesmccluskey3786]

You can pray for a job or go get one. Meaning- If prayer worked why do we need 911?... Or "If theology isn't so important why does the Bible contain so much of it"?...

[@420JRMan]

Bought the audiobook version of, Boghossain.

[@oddballcourt]

Where's the link to the video you played during the podcast? You said it would be in the Description, and it's not there....

[@TheThinkingAtheist]

+oddballcourt Fixed. Sorry.

[@mppauling]

+TheThinkingAtheist Cognitive dissonance is a wonderful tool. Aligning oneself, shoulder to shoulder and using cognitive dissonance is a wonderful method. I think using the principals and methods from cognitive science is definitely among the most, if not the most fruitful tactic with the sick religious mind.

[@ThatBoomerDude56]

+TheThinkingAtheist hahaha!! You've been used for another Scientology ad again!! Makes ya' feel proud, don't it?

[@Chamelionroses]

+Peter Kosen I think even anti scientology videos else where get those ads. The red tube additional pay to "get rid of advertising" even though google features ads on the main page...Will perhaps get paid well.

[@ThatBoomerDude56]

Jennifer Isaacs I'm thinking that, for the most part, people watching Seth's videos will just think it's kind of humorous.

[@chiefjeefe424]

Cam you do a podcast about Christian movies? just listened to your podcast on christian music (loved it!) and was wondering if you could possibly do something similar. Christian movies are incredibly worse than christian music. And also god's not dead 2 (yes there is a sequel) is coming out soon. Would love to hear your thoughts and guests thoughts as well!

[@chestbuster1987]

Street epistemology - the new street magic

[@WarfighterX22]

finally back to the usual for the past 4 or 5 months i haven't cared about your show

[@vivahernando1]

+Cj Casey lolz what is the point of your comment here.

[@WarfighterX22]

just a discussion is all if you are looking for trolling you wont get it here

[@vivahernando1]

Cj Casey no trolling I legitimately don't understand comments like these. The host will take the show where his vision of it leads him not whether you care or not. EOM

[@WarfighterX22]

usually they follow a topic, or bring up a question related to the question, sometimes its to troll, other times it might give meaning to say convert someone to your position whatever that may be.

[@clydesight]

I am very concerned with and am in favor of stopping people of "faith" from getting and holding political power for the purpose of making others follow their faith in various ways THROUGH that political power. That is coercion and extortion. I am also very much against religious bullies, people who act holier than thou and try to push their faith and beliefs onto others by barging into conversations with it or demanding "rights" that are really "privileges". These are bad religious people, religious in name only, religion USERS, not followers. I am all for calling out religious leaders who are known bigots, and people who deliberately USE religion to extort money, worship, and other things from their followers. I consider these leaders to be criminals. You'll find such people in religion and pseudo religious activities (i.e. New Age Gurus, Spiritualists). If they are criminals they should be held accountable under law, regardless of how they hide their crimes. But, if a person of faith does NOT use it to gain power or to coerce, and is NOT obnoxious about proselytizing, is respectful of other beliefs, or lack of beliefs, is kind and tolerant... I say, "Believe whatever you like, much comfort may it give you." There a millions of Christians, Muslims, Hindu and others who fit this description. These are often very good people who are also people of faith. Also, I know some people of "faith" who would be absolutely miserable without it. Religion fills a need for them. They deserve to have their needs met as long as they don't trample on others.

[@orphanblackops4608]

The sky god listens to the football player but not for the kid that gets raped by an adult frequently. But everything happens for a reason. #facepalm

[@NobleAmbush]

hey seth, were you aware styper came out with a new album? i learned about this while trying to figure out what judiest priest was up to (of all the things lol) and havent had time to actually listen to the album. iv only recently became an athiest thanks to many people, you and matt dillahunty mostly, but i still listen to a lot of christian music. did you stop listening to christian music during your process of becoming an athiest or do you still listen to it now?

[@420JRMan]

8hrs, 30min., full audiobook.

[@JJPHILLYLG]

I'm just guessing but maybe the spoon in hell comment meant having a tool which you could use unsuccessfully to dig yourself out of hell.

[@andrewwan1880]

As a human I find we are naturally bent on truth and the truth as it is isn't okay not to know now. As humans we all seek truth and its facts. Fuck that why work without any rest.

[@bulruq]

Why would you WANT to talk someone out of their faith? I'm a lifelong Atheist and I won't waste my breath on a believer unless they attack me first or give me that attitude that I HAVE to be SOMETHING. My usual reply to that comment is "I am; I'm SMART!"

[@Sciguy95]

I git a person to start to doubt what theyd been taught a little bit. I had asked what they meant when they said jesus had made the old testament rules obsolete when he said himself that he had come to uphold the law. She said an example was when he said that nothing that entered your mouth could defile you, which made it ok to eat pork, shellfish, etc. I said, but that line is inherently incorrect, if nothing that entered our mouth could defile us then nothing could poison us dont you think? She gave ne this weird look and said she had never thought of it like that and thats where i left it.

[@jinnijenny]

This is actually a question for Anthony Magnabosco... Do you think your method could work on "proffessional apologetics" like Kent Hovind or such?

[@magnabosco210]

Only if they are being honest.

[@jinnijenny]

+Anthony Magnabosco Sure. Do you think Kent Hovind is honest, or would be if you engaged with him? I guess I am asking if you would be willing to try it on him.

[@magnabosco210]

jinnijenny It is difficult to say if Kent Hovind is being honest. He sure seems to strongly believe it. Although my preference is talking with people who live in my community, I'd love to have an opportunity to speak with Hovind (or any other apologist for that matter), provided he was being upfront with me.

[@byrysh]

+jinnijenny Hell no hes not honest. His paycheck relies on his dishonesty.

[@daveyjones9930]

Can this methodology be used by a Christian to change the belief of someone who doesn't believe in God or the supernatural?

[@EsotericMedic]

No one can EVER talk me out of my faith. EVER.

[@MrDigztheswagking]

TheUltimateConspiracyTheorist. unicorns created the earth

[@dannysnee4945]

Faith in what ?

[@shanehorvath9711]

Every time at the end of one of these conversations where the person moves their belief scale down to the 50-60% mark, It reminds me of a Carlin bit where he talks about praying to Joe Pesci and half the time he gets what he wants, half the time he doesnt. Same as God, the mojo man, the voodoo woman, the four leaf clover and the rabbits foot, 50/50. So just sit back, pick your superstition, and make a wish.