Tube Sound Comparison - ECC83/12AX7 Modern VS. Vintage ( JJ vs Philips)

[@petr8068]

Jesus, how "dry" and lifeless JJ is compared to NOS...I didn't expect such an obvious difference, wow! Thanks for video.

[@rick-wg4in]

I obsessed with locating NOS decades ago and have several lifetime supplies of preamp and power tubes. These tubes not only sound harmonically richer, they seem to last forever. Life is short. If you can get good ones, it's the only way to go. They inspire.

[@omegahyperes96]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ECC83 has a more lush high end??

[@atech9020]

The whole NOS tube craze is a money ploy. How to separate you from your money for a tube that was once 25 cents to purchase is now worth $50+ a pop.... What people forget is that the tube had to be good to begin with, it lasted 30-50 years on a shelf, or in other people's amps to finally find its home in yours. At the rate it's going, soon vintage tubes from " name the famous player " will be worth $1,000 plus.... Modern tubes are made just like they were 50 years ago. There are questionable ones just as there are good ones. You just won't know how good the good ones are until 50 years from now when they still work, and they are sold as NOS. Eventually there will be ZERO vintage tubes, so start getting modern ones now while they are still being made. Eventually they too will be vintage.

[@whatarefriends4]

Makes sense

[@cyberpunk409]

Modern tubes are not made exactly like they were 50 years ago though.... There are a lot of materials that aren't "environmentally friendly" anymore and probably illegal to use in most countries. Materials have definitely changed and one could argue that it does make a difference

[@atech9020]

I would argue that the difference is not that much, or at least a lot less than the price tag suggests. The problem is, that if people don’t buy modern tubes, they won’t make them anymore, which means we will be really screwed, when all we are actually left with are crappy modern tubes 20-40 years from now…. The thing about tubes is that if you use them, you will loose them. So these NOS tubes are not long for wear.

[@Tremolux59]

The vintage sounds noticeably better.

[@timonoedzes3620]

Nice! I like how the JJ's sound in this test.. In my own amps vintage philips/mullards always sounds a lot richer, but in your test not! So it really depends on your gear en settings... Choose wisely people :)

[@SisterSandoz]

So much of this is subject to taste and type of amp and style of music. Funny enough, I use Philips Miniwatts as my phase inverter tube in several amps. I have found something after speaking with a retired amp builder and tech about preamp tubes. He stated to me that current mass-produced tubes during the era when the amps preamp was designed and voiced is more important in selecting preamp tubes. I have an all original 1984 Mark IIC+ with original tubes in it. After tube rolling new and NOS tubes in it, I found the original tubes sounded the best. I tried these tubes in another mesa product and was surprised how much better that amp sounded. After a bit of research, these amps were designed using the mass-produced tubes of the 80s and 90s. They were China made 7025s with square foil getter and a round middle mica spacer. I installed some New China made 12AX7B with a round halo getter, and it sounded terrible, thin, and lifeless. Come to find out, most of the modern voiced amps of the 90s preamp voicing used this tube in design and testing. Speaking with a tech at Mesa, he confirmed that readily available tubes during the time period were always the first thought in designing a circuit. I have acquired a lot of these tubes now for my amps. Vintage amps that rely on power tube saturation are a totally different ball game. Modern amps get most of their voicing in the preamp with clean power amps with headroom. I love my collection of Vintage tubes. And I understand their use in certain circuits. Guitar amps and hifi gear are different animals.

[@leonardo.rafael]

I am surprised. I expected Philips may sound always better, but in clean sound I feel JJ has much more harmonics and richness. But with gain sound I feel JJ gets muddy and less bright. Thats also what uses to happen with many speakers. Of course its how I feel this record that is valid for the amp circuit you run them. Thank you for sharing your trial.

[@delatronics3257]

I'm always buying NOS tubes for my customer repairs nowadays; whilst the JJ are good amongst modern tubes, I find that the frequency response is uneven in that they seem to be more low and low mid focused with a bit of high tacked on. The Philips had a broader flatter response which is good for Hifi. I am the authorised service centre for Marshall, Fender, Laney etc; so oftentimes my clients are power rock biased which means they would be happier with a JJ in this case.

[@jimmysjunkyard]

The vintage one absolutely better...

[@4vinylsound]

It's less of a factor of being a vintage tube or a new tube then it is the brand of tube j j's sound like that always there are new tubes that sound much better try a tungsol gold pin or a genalex gold lion gold pin those are new and they sound amazing. I did a demo video on my channel if you want to see it.

[@ddzanovski]

Nice as per usual! What amp do you use? Is it the same amp for both the clean and gain tones? Regards

[@ecc8344]

Thank you! Yes ,same amp (Bogner Alchemist) with clean and crunch channel 👍

[@67Pepper]

The vintage tubes really stood out when the guitar intro was played. They had more "presence" and life. The JJ's were too laid back for me. I have a lot of vintage 12AX7's, Tele's, Miniwatts, Mullard, Brimar, Bugle Boy, many more. I haven't found the need to use any new production tubes in any of my gear, except some Tungsol 6550's, although I preferred the Svetlana Winged "C" 6550's in my gear.

[@joelpoitras6226]

Gee!! The JJs sound more canny , mid, weak and muffled. This is the first time i can really admit the vintage has a far superior sonic trademark than the moderns, assuming you honestly kept the the same EQing and guitar. Quite a difference. Nice demo.😎

[@ecc8344]

Yes, same amp EQ, same microphone position, same guitar..Just tubes got swapped :) and I agree, vintage is so much better,! Thanks for your comment!

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

he is comparing one of the best tubes ever made to modern junk. jj's have a nasty tone the more you crank them the more youll hear it.

[@MrRourk]

The new tubes are getting much better

[@ecc8344]

Well, the quaility control and materials are not better then back in the day, go figure :)

[@MrRourk]

@@ecc8344 nor is trying to guess 40 to 50 yrs of abuse a tube may have received.

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

no they are not, i have 1990's jj's that sound better than these jj's but honestly both sound like plastic compared to the real deal.

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

@@MrRourk try one vintage tube for the first time in your life....

[@MrRourk]

@@yaniv-nos-tubes I own a Heathkit W-5m and Dynaco MkIV so I obviously no nothing about this stuff

[@thebeaner687]

I have a Marshall MF350 and I used an NOS 12AX7 Mullard and it was overly warm, it was used up. Then I used an NOS IEC Mullard and it sounded great but it sounded old like Classic Rock. It sounded way too dark so I bought a new Russian Mullard CV4004 and that sounded modern and great. I also wore it out way too fast cuz it started to hum. It even had that Angry growl reminiscent of Motley Crue or the Sum41 album Does This Look Infected. I realized that the angry growl only lasts for so long and wears out after a bit. The MF350 has a Plexi Circuit, a JCM800 Circuit and a Silver Jubilee Circuit plus another heavily overdriven channel that sounds like it’s a Silver Jubilee double tracked.

[@vikingmike8139]

NOS tubes all the way! That's how I run ALL of my tube amps. Cheers!

[@MrFsandt]

My dear. I'm listening to your explanation about thermionic valves through a transistor amplifier operating in class D. The audio is perfect!!! 👍🎼

[@ecc8344]

Im glad you like it :)

[@gantz4u]

Meta irony runs so deep nobody can tell the difference. Its a double edged sword.

[@carylee2002]

I just compared the JJ ECC83 12AX7 to my NOS GE 12AX7A tubes and it is no comparison. The JJ's are muddy in sound and they really are meant to play in low volume, along with a 30 minute warmup. I did do a 12 hour breakin on both and the NOS is more pleasing sound overall.

[@uribaranesguitarstudio]

Hi, i would like to ask you an advice for good tubes for V1 and V2 in my DRRI. I had some NOS GE that went microphonic very soon and I would like to know your opinion about the new ones (Tung sol, Mullard, EH). Is the gold pin an important issue? Thanks

[@ecc8344]

Hi! I made a video before talking about current Russian made tubes under New Sensor Corp.(EHX, Tungsol,Sovtek etc) Check it out! Gold pins perhaps add a little, im sure that tubes that were selected as a better performer in factory testings were added gold plated pins, overall the difference is not like night and day, very little imho. Hope that helps!

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

hi ,my name is yaniv i'm a local tube guru from eilat : 1.goldpins matter a lot when you are dealing with vintage or nos tubes it usually means a higher grade tube , for modern tubes it means a different model so different tone sometimes better sometimes not. the same goes for 12ax7a/ wa cv4004 or 7025 all higher grade vintage tubes but modern makers use the names and the brands however they want. a modern goldpin 7025 is nowhere near the old regular stuff. 2. for a DRRI i recommend a mullard i63 at v1 and a GE 12ax7wa at v2 for maximum versatility .ive been using this set on amps that i rent for live gigs the mullard at v1 adds low mids smoothness and soften the highs perfect for single coils or bright guitars amazing for drive. the GE12ax7wa for v2 you probably already know very clear big lows with definition neutral mids and crispy highs great for cleans humbuckers and p90's if you didn't like the ge and want more warmth brimar cv4004 or the obvious holy grail rca's are great. 3.all the new tubes are junk compared to the greatest nos or vintage tubes since the old stuff was made to military standards .vintage tubes sound better and last longer, vintage tung sol and mullard are some of the best tubes ever made. modern or "reissue mullard" and tongsol are made at same russian factory as the eh tubes they all sound different though .

[@Antony_Jenner]

Back in the 60s most amps were made with components that were 20% tolerance 10% if you were lucky. There is more to ones amp than just the valves, If I replaced all of the components with modern 5% ones in a original JTM45 and stuck the original valves back in it would sound different. It's all objective and I believe there is a lot of wank associated with vintage valves and components. I have a RCA bench amp from the 40s and use it as a practice amp it runs all metal cased valves and depending what speaker box I use depends on how it sounds obviously. This video is a good representation of modern verses vintage though but remember you could do the same using all vintage valves and compare the differences just between Mullards as they are all slightly different.

[@Edmar506]

Hi! I play with a peavey classic 20 mini head and i was using in V1: tung sol reissue 12ax7, in V2: shuguang 12ax7 and in V3: mullard NOS ECC83. Power tubes were amperex EL84. These amperex died and i changed by mullard reissue EL84. I felt more clarity on clean sounds, but i think lost on overdrive. What you recomend for preamp tubes and powertubes? I have miniwatt el84 powertubes and i liked when i tested. My main doubt is on preamp tubes.

[@ecc8344]

Hi :) first i'd say put that NOS Mullard in V1..start the signal chain with best tube of which you mentioned. If you like good gain and yet great clean I would say go for Ei Yugoslavia Ecc83 NOS, they are amazing. I just used them for a gig anx the sound was amazing! And they are not pricey as NOSMullard which is good! Also Tungsram are great, great price and similar to Mullard sound:) EL84 id say go for vintage military Soviet NOS version, I forgot the name in cyrilic but you have a hint 🙂👍

[@rafaelbustos4758]

Love the old ones get gigey with it 😊 thanks just dropped in

[@ernestporee3697]

Interesting ? Never used JJ tubes , I have a selection of vintage tubes that I swap but for new tubes EH is workable . In my Mc240 I can hear whatever changes tubes make. Telefunken is always nice.

[@TechTed1]

modern tubes sounds more bass than tremble like deep in the sea and old tubes sounds more tremle than bass like normal conversation 🤔 is a huge difference between old and new

[@lescaster2179]

There's a detectable difference, however, I would assert that there is a much bigger difference in the following, than there is in the sounds they are producing: 1. Price 2. Availability 3. Emotion - how you feel about owning and using them Again, yes there are discernible tonal differences heard. But not as big a difference as the differences listed above. In other words, not night and day but more of a time of day and, imo, within a couple of hours of each other - if that makes sense. Stick all that in your relative value calculator and there's reasons why people may choose the new, or the old, as it's a relative thing for each player to consider. I'd prefer the older tubes heard here, for my taste, but I wouldn't lose sleep if forced to use the new ones, especially knowing they're both less expensive and more available. This is a good comparison. I've heard others where too many options are looked at in one video and by the time you're done you're left wondering if you've heard appreciable differences or not! ;-) this was simple and focused. Good job!

[@ecc8344]

Thank you for your comment! :) good perspective!

[@johnh539]

I have never tube rolled. My feeling is that I want to start with the driver tubes in my Prima Luna evo 100 Integrated amp which are 12ax7 . I'm hoping for advice on a few points. 1) I would rather stay away from NOS tubes as I am on a budget and I would have more fun rolling through varios tubes rather than one or two that make me feel guilty for spending too much . My speakers are Focal Arias; are NOS worth it? 2)Although my system is a good resolving one, my life long percute for an open, clear top end is one I still want to scratch ,at least at the 12ax7 "First" stage. I would love any 12ax7 or equivalent advice/brands etc. 3)The "second line" regulator valves on my Prima Luna are 12au7's do you know are they different to 12ax7 or is it just a (P.L.) taste thing? finely if possible same, 2) question regarding 12au7 tubes? Sorry to ask so many things but starting as I did with no knowledge it has been hard to finde some of the specific facts (Question 3). Thanks to anybody in advance for any advice.

[@soumyajitdeb3943]

The gain on the JJ seems slightly lower than the gain on the miniwatt.

[@BlueBs72]

jj have more gain ?

[@ecc8344]

Yes! And less definition imho

[@JC-11111]

Just got 1 vintage rca 12ax7. Not sure where I want to use it though. I have a EHX 7025 EH in V1, high gain JJ in V2 and balanced triode JJ in V3 and it sounds fantastic so I'm thinking I may try it in the cathode follower at V2 or the PI at V3. Guess it's time to try them both and see how they sound.

[@Bassoon1982]

Interesting Video 😊 The old tubes sound more round and rich/ elegant for my ears. Just to mention that the brand „miniwatt“ back in the 60s was not the best one in the European market. A comparison with Telefunken or VALVO would be a lot more interesting… but thanks anyways for your effort😅

[@butwait]

Miniwatt was the type, those were Philips tubes.

[@gantz4u]

When you describe a sound as "round" its self evident youre in territories of juju magick. wear the tube around your neck. it makes you bullet proof.

[@andyhayes7828]

The new tubes were a tad granier in the mids which I liked, and the old had a tad more depth and top end presence.

[@KyleSG88]

Miniwatts have more of that something for sure. Would pick those out of the 2 if I had to.

[@ecc8344]

"that something" is a good way of putting it...hard to describe with words..but when you hear it you know its there :)

[@breathtimebreath4934]

Just joined from fb!!!! Thank you 🙏

[@EpicWinz]

The JJ sounds smaller and etches the sound in an unpleasant way. I remember trying the JJ 12AU7 in my tube channel strip. It was unusable. NOS FTW!

[@genesisnkaidence8519]

Why do the vintage tubes sound so much better than modern tubes.. I can hear clearly hear the difference in my AirPod pros it’s ridiculous the difference much less my studio monitors.. I’m replacing my tubes with nos tubes in my la 610 mk2 channel strip.. I can’t wait 😜.. how long do these tubes last ? I know it depends but in general sorry I’m new to hardware

[@ecc8344]

Hi there. Why do they sound better? Better materials were used back then. And everything was made to last long. Back then people had their tv's and radios for a very long time unlike today when everything is made to be used quick and made with poor quality. Vintage tubes (at least preamp) last for a very long time, some people argue for a lifetime. So definitely superior choiche if you choose vintage :)

[@genesisnkaidence8519]

@@ecc8344wow thank you for the info.. I spent 700 bucks on 3 Philips 70’s AX7’s one Bugle Boy AT7 and Amperex EL84

[@edguyrocks5865]

the long plate Phillips have way more sustain....sound excellent.

[@24MusicCarats]

So why do the vintage sound better? Is it the material ? The way they were made? Why cant modern tube makes sounds as good as vintage ?

[@ecc8344]

Hi there. Yes, better materials were used back then. Just like anything back then was made to last a long time. :) why cant they do that today? Good question, with modern technology they could make superior tubes but I guess thats how things go in this world. Everything has to be consumed quickly so therefore you need to buy again and again :)

[@thebeaner687]

Little known fact: a vintage tube can handle more voltage than a modern tube. Most modern ECC83 tubes have a sweet spot of 450V while vintage tubes sweet spot is around 500V. Vintage tubes are just built better to higher standards.

[@TechTed1]

Interesting

[@Gorazd1974]

I had JJ in my tube guitar preamp Tubetec and they were so lifeless, dull and really uninspired. When i throw inside Sovteks, sound just jumped out of the preamp.

[@lovecraftmusic8717]

I've heard a thinner sound from the 83s...the vintage ones were a bit more full and open. What amp has been used?

[@ecc8344]

Bogner Alchemist 👍

[@iancandler5446]

I’m an old tube man coming from the mallard age and much prefer the sound of the Philips, the JJs just sound like they don’t have vroom of the Philips .

[@gantz4u]

Thats a long the other is a short. Its not apples to apples. Anyone not aware of that Ive discarded all your tube opinions. There seems to be slightly more sustain on a long trying to do a direct comparison. The difference is so subtle its virtually undetectable. Therefore theyre interchangeable. No body important could tell the difference.

[@ecc8344]

Not sure what are you trying to say?🤔

[@gantz4u]

@@ecc8344 More rigid? or 2x the surface of cathode anode and grid? Either way it gives slightly undetectable amounts of increase in sustain. 12AX7 is perimeters in how it performs in a circuit not how its built. measure the length of your plates visually. 1 is a "long" the other is a "short". short replaced long because of higher performance in audio fidelity. But beyond a slight increase in sustain Im not hearing a difference.

[@P2Psolved]

NOS tubes are pricier but IMHO sound much richer than new production, and they last forever. Why compromise and have to replace new production tubes frequently? In the end, NOS tubes are a much better bargain.

[@ecc8344]

You are right! I agree 1000%! Just wanted to do little different video comparing modern tubes since I always focus on vintage stuff:) and yes, nothing like a vintage tube!

[@yeuamnhaclichsu.4579]

I just Sub &like your chanel. Goodluck!

[@jerrymcgeorge4117]

My problem with JJs is they have a rather muffled sound compared to others, although they are rarely microphonic. So many of the vintage tubes still available are microphonic and worthless in most applications.

[@ecc8344]

I have a whole bunch of vintage tubes and only very few have minor microphonic issues..for example Ei Yugoslavia Ecc83 can get very microphonic in V1, but in v2 and v3 they work just fine without microphonics..Im not sure what kind of experience you went trough, In my case I rarely have a microphonic vintage tube.

[@jerrymcgeorge4117]

@@ecc8344 I tend to get micro RCA grey plate 12AX7s.

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

so many people here never tried nos and it's so easy to tell.

[@jerrymcgeorge4117]

@@yaniv-nos-tubes How is it easy to tell?

[@bluevd12]

What amp? is this secret?

[@ecc8344]

Bogner Alchemist into 1x12 Greenback cab

[@bluevd12]

@@ecc8344 ok cool

[@twintriode]

NOS is a suckers market these days. Sure, they are superior, but if the set of tubes cost more than the equipment they are driving that's a big no-can-do from me.

[@ecc8344]

I find vintage NOS tubes most of times cheaper then anything new..you just have to look where to buy em from..from eBay you will spend top dollar..on a flea market you can get em by less then 5 bucks a piece sometimes🥳

[@bhm1712]

The tubes sounded best through headphones.

[@ahankararockband]

I can not hear any significant difference. Therefore unless a tube is completely and obviously broken it is not worth to take time and energy for this. There is always presence and treble in smp controls they make real difference.

[@ecc8344]

Just because you dont hear it, it doesnt meant there isnt :) if you think so then this channel is not for you, your wasting your time here since every tube sounds the same to you unless is broken🤔

[@TheMarkingegno]

Short plate tube sounds almost always thinner and more sterile than medium and long plate tube version. Compare always tubes with pretty equal height of plate never a long vs short plate!

[@ecc8344]

The reason why i made comparison is to point out those very differences you just mentioned. Not everyone knows that, therefore you have an example here.

[@scottlowell493]

My go to 12ax7 has been Mullard/National electric of India. What I replaced were the no brand 12ax7 from China that came with a stereo pre amp. Almost an unfair comparison. The stock tubes were fine electrically, but quite cool and lifeless. the Mullards were warmer, with a lush midrange.

[@zbaby82]

The Philips sound better. They're tighter, more powerful and with more detail.

[@nicholastotoro7721]

JJ's are... bleh... only tube of theirs I really can say I like is their 6V6. The only reason they're so "dominant" now is the Shuguang (sp?) factory is still not rebuilt, if ever, and we're not getting any new Russian tubes. JJ's themselves aren't really my first choice... when given a choice. Before Ruby had a tube that could handle the plate voltage of my Bogner Shiva (SED stopped making their EL34 and that one could handle it), then only tube I could use was their JJ's E34L. That tube made the Shiva sound hard and like dog crap at performance volume. I do have one amp that eats EL84's for breakfast, lunch and dinner and the only tube I have that has been worth anything in it as an old JAN tube. It's been faultless where this amp smokes new production EL84's in hours.

[@voxpathfinder15r]

Have you considered bringing your amplifier to a tech to check what value screen resistors are used and check it’s bias? Possibly go to another value cathode resistor if it’s cathode biased? I have a Carvin Belair that is el84 equipped and has over 400 volts on the plate and it doesn’t eat tubes.

[@jaysorensenIBEW]

It would be more accurate and telling if the amp were biased for both tube sets, which would be a huge undertaking.

[@ecc8344]

Preamp section is auto-biased in 95% of amps including mine.

[@jaysorensenIBEW]

@@ecc8344 Oh, I see. Thank you 👍

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

i used to have an american peavey classic 50 tubed with jj's from the factory sounded ok to me, after about 10 years it sounded off no highs so i needed a retube ,asked for the same jj's but guess what? the same jj's don't exist after ten years no one knows when they change a model with modern tubes. so the amp was fully retubed with new jj's by a certified tech and it sounded horrible like here in your video like plastic i don't need my hd 700 to notice that nasty tone i hated it and sold the amp eventually. only years later when i bought a new amp and realized again that no one knows shit about tubes in my country i went to a specialist-the tube king and got some guidance and a tube tester and started experamenting with the greatest hits on some of the best amps ever made. conclusion -don't waste your time money or energy on modern tubes instead go for the best ever made they sound better and last longer.

[@ecc8344]

I have JJ's from early 2000's NIB.. is that what you were after? Did they change so much over the time? I also have early 90s JJ made Tesla branded tubes..identical to construction of modern JJ Ecc83s..But the shielding between triodes seems to be carbon coated and few other details different..they sound different like night and day..this JJ Tesla are more organic and smooth..the JJ's on the other hand are harsh and unbalanced sounding.

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

@@ecc8344 the amp was from 1993 so 90's jj's sounded great vs 2005 jj's which were unusable to me, ive upgraded more than 30 amps and when i take out jj's and put vintage mullards instead on marshalls it feels great .the mids and bass are better and you get more clarity air and definition, i must try those philips they sound great

[@matthewg7069]

Honestly, I'm listening through some pretty good gear and the differences are absolutely minute, if at all audible, This is the sort of stuff that just distracts from getting on and just making good sounding music. Just get the guitar track down and recorded.

[@ecc8344]

I play and make music for living, tubes are just my free time hobby and passion :)

[@garymattischannel6207]

Those JJ sound flat as a pancake !

[@merrilycook2727]

The vintage was tighter, and more mids, and notes hold together better.

[@AdrianRP1]

No comparison, not even close. The JJs blow in comparison...

[@spasovski1984]

miniwstts are more organic.. modern sound more clinical

[@eugenepohjola258]

Howdy. To me the vintage sounded more "bad -ss" ... Regards.

[@sirlordcomic]

The new ones sounded better than the vintage. Of course vintage lovers will never admit that.

[@ecc8344]

Hmmm..personally..I dearly wish I could say I like new ones better..since would be so much more convinient to get em new and cheaper then vintage...But after 3 years of constant tube rolling (god bless my amp's pinouts) Ive found that there is nothing like vintage..sure new ones sound OK (especially if your goal is hi gain distortion) but when it comes to dynamics,voicings and character vintage wins the race. If you never tried vintage ones you cant undestrand it :) I personally dont prefer vintage because its cool to have 50+ year old tube.. But all that I mentioned above..and great that modern tubes serve your purpose 👍

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

jj's sound like crap let's be honest you either think it's crap or can't hear.

[@peteyoung7665]

Yeah when you use 3 of them.Use one JJ ECC83 in v1 and 2 Miniwatt,Mullards or Brimar in v2,v3 you get the best of both worlds.

[@ミャン-v5v]

うん0が出そう

[@TechTed1]

Interesting

[@TechTed1]

modern tubes sounds more bass than tremble like deep in the sea and old tubes sounds more tremle than bass like normal conversation 🤔 is a huge difference between old and new

[@johnh539]

what then would be your advice for a nos12ax7 that really shines in its open clarity?