S300SXE versus S300SXR The long awaited Video

[@romuztek]

Would be keen to see you doing some vids on the Turbosmart turbos!

[@802Garage]

I think Borg Warner has the best turbo engineers bar none. Pun intended. People who buy fancy aftermarket turbos for a brand name are kidding themselves. Not talking about Garrett or other OEM providers so much as the flashy old school tuner outfits. The SX-E series already presented the best value in performance from everything I have seen. This is as big step up with barely increased pricing. Not only did they increase the maximum efficiency, but they increased it at high boost and high speed even more. About 0.2-0.4% gains across most of the map. It's also crazy the wide variety of engines you could put these turbos on given the broad map. Plus increased response with lower mass. Too awesome!

[@ManagerVitaly]

Now, compare it to a G series 88mm compressor and you will find the g series will use 22% less energy to achieve the same at a pr of 3. The map is wider, especially in the areas that count. With the only slight advantage of the SX-r being above a pr of 3.75 (40psi). Which is almost unusable due it running into maximum speed issues for the flow requirements on larger engines. Just saying.

[@drewdavis239]

What g series ? 88mm inducer? The g351050 does not have the shaft power to push the compressor to the top of the map. Especially on any larger engine. (Back pressure ) a g40900 is a 62mm compressor or a 71mm? ( What g series ?)

[@ManagerVitaly]

@@drewdavis239 you should never compare Compressors by the inducer diameter. You compare them by the exducer. So that would be the g series 88mm 1150 map.

[@drewdavis239]

Why ? Your vague at best. Why wouldnt I compare the restriction. Are you talking about trim? You can't even provide a complete model number. Is it a open scroll g40? What hot side? All of these things have an effect. Somehow it's 22% tho ... Lol

[@ManagerVitaly]

When designing a centrifugal compressor, you use the flow coefficient (phi) to get the exducer diameter. And the work coefficient (slip) to get the exducer tip speed. Now you know the diameter and how fast it needs to go. The trim ratio is chosen to give the lowest inlet velocity vs flow. The 22% I referenced at pr 3.5 and 100lbs/m. The easiest form of energy required (shaft power) is mass flow* tip speed2* slip. If you know how much energy is going in, and you know what the energy coming out is, the difference is the energy required to turn the compressor. = Efficiency

[@chanalusupovroman]

CHRIS, I've been waiting for a long time for a review of the new bw line, thank you!

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@chanalusupovroman happy to oblige my friend -

[@lucatronconi3558]

welcome back my friend!!

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@lucatronconi3558 thanks bro

[@SakkieBuys]

DANKIE TOG!! Very welcomed video thank you Chris

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@SakkieBuys lol sorry Boeta lank gevat

[@Gamesplaytoday]

Love these kind of informative videos, cheers from New Zealand!

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@Gamesplaytoday thanks for tuning from NZ -

[@pietererasmus7804]

Die baas is terug!! Lekker one Chris - EK LOVE IT!!!

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@pietererasmus7804 dankie ou boet!

[@1320MotorSportsBR]

Great content. will be on the lookout for the 200 video

[@sircefiro]

Great vid, good to see you back! The problem for a lot of people with the s300 range was choosing the right 1, looks a bit easier with the sxr, they look like the new hot option for a lot of cases.

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@sircefiro thanks for the comment

[@SuperSchnabulator]

Great video. So many interesting things. I love to learn about turbos. Please keep on creating videos like this ! Best regards from Germany

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@SuperSchnabulator thanks for the comments - it helps us ALOT

[@Christdeliverme]

Finally a new video

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@Christdeliverme yeah - sorry about the wait, been a wild ride

[@r33skylineprojects59]

this turbo is the best cheapest up grade iv done the sxr black wheel is in credible .. thanks for backing up the info

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@r33skylineprojects59 thanks for the comment - glad the info provided supports real world results

[@WyGuyTurbski]

Great vid, wish they had these in ball bearing. Do you think that borg will update the EFR lineup sometime soon? I currently have an 8370, love it, but I'm sure some things can be improved with ~14 years of engineering advancements?

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@WyGuyTurbski I know PRI shows some new Vband housings being released, who knows keep your eyes open is what I always say….

[@woodzy575]

I love my s257 sxe. My engine appreciates being able to breathe too

[@marte1153]

I still prefer the S372sxe. It's more efficient at higher flow. For example at 95lbs/min at 30psi its at around 68% efficiency compared to around 64% for the sxr. Result will be less heat and lower intake temperatures

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@marte1153 agreed - depending on the engine and it’s VE

[@dragonsupra1020]

So pretty much Borg Warner applied a less is more mentality to the SX-R line which is rather neat.

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@dragonsupra1020 agreed - works very well on paper but also in practise as per the comments from the other subscribers who have these SXR turbos installed

[@drewdavis239]

Could I make a request? If you guys are making more videos? Now that the g40 is out, can I get a comparison between the g40900 and any of the g35 size turbos, say a 3582 or a 6466. or whatever is the go to for late model BMW's. (Any 2.8 to 3.2 ) It doesn't have to be BMW. I could extrapolate the info from a 2j or anything similar displacement. I would like to think the g40900 makes more power than the 3582 66/62 with similar manners. Doesn't have to be e85 (that would help the g40 obviously )

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@drewdavis239 great suggestion will pass it to Chris and get his feel on this

[@kylemilligan752]

These two compressors are optimal on a 250-300 bhp engine. Trying to quote a max lb/hr is ridiculous when the shaft rpm tells you turbine will be overspeeding trying to support the compressor. Running across two or three shaft speed lines is requiring more work from the turbine, and backpressure will skyrocket

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@kylemilligan752 the max flow rate is fact, it’s quoted and printed from tests on a gas stand. It is what it is, how you put it to good use and how you configure your engine to “use” the flow (which is ever changing) is up To the tuner.

[@kylemilligan752]

@@TurboDirectSA I have no issue with the compressor maps. Now, tell me simply what n/a engines hp outputs fits on those compressor maps?

[@TurboDirectSA]

@ pls check the channel for other videos we did on how to plot a compressor map. Or you can go to the borgwarner matchbot to plot the same for your engine

[@GTRliffe]

your vids are good, shame there isn't more

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@GTRliffe working on that for the remainder of 2024.

[@sircefiro]

There's still good ones done previously if you look through the old vids

[@georgem8200]

Never miss a video.Great to see you back in these crazy brainwashed times. Turbo Direct ☝️.

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@georgem8200 thanks for The support!!

[@turbovolvos40]

I always appreciated how Borg Warner rated their turbos at 10 hp per lb mass of air. It appears that's not how they are rating the SXR which is a little disappointing. Can the 68mm SXR actually make 1100hp like they state? I believe the s372sxe can.

[@chanalusupovroman]

CHRIS, tell me which a/r of housing T4 twin s258sxr is better to use on VW 2.0 engine to achieve 700 hp?

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@chanalusupovroman the 83 will do that just fine!

[@Drunken_Hamster]

For the second, smaller SX-R you showed, would you say that the turbine is sized well for it to be used as a single turbo on a 3.5 to 5.0L engine revving as high as 8000rpm? If not, what would you say is the largest engine this turbo would be suited for at an 8000-8500rpm redline?

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@Drunken_Hamster thats high rpm for a 5.0engine assuming that would be a V8 - this turbo would Be small. I would need the engine specs to calculate its VE and then what your target HP is and what application (drift, drag, street etc) and then it’s easy to plot on a map for you

[@Drunken_Hamster]

​@@TurboDirectSA Well, I'm nowhere near ready for that. My concept is to use either a 3.5L Honda or Toyota V6 *OR* a 4.3L LV3 V6 which is based on the gen 5 LT platform and has great heads (which I would further improve upon). The JDM V6s will likely stay at stock displacement, but the 4.3 can be bored out to match the 6.2 V8 bore (or more which results in 4.6L of displacement. If I could get my hands on a custom 95mm crank (admittedly not a huge increase from stock so probably not worth it) then that brings it up to a 4.8L displacement while still being safe for boost. Realistically I'd either keep it stock displacement or only bore it out to get it to 4.6L but I wanted to pad my number for you just to see how close of a thing it'd be on whether or not the 950hp SXR was usable for this application as a single turbo system.

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@Drunken_Hamster the larger unit is what you want- you never choose the turbo for your max HP to run at max all the time. Rather have more in reserve so that both the engine and turbo are not running at full steam - makes a reliable setup. The AR1.00 is the turbine housing together with the 80mm turbine with cutback and you’ll be set - look at the efficiency at lower boost levels - it’s a perfect turbo for that larger size CID engines

[@Drunken_Hamster]

@@TurboDirectSA Gotcha, thanks. Would you say that the 950 is better suited to the 3.5L engines? Doing a simple bit of math shows that even 4.3L turning 7500rpm will flow more than the 3.5L at 9000, which is the limit I considered running the 3.5s and only because they have the 4v heads to support it. I'd likely still run the 3.5s the same at 8000-ish max so then there's theoretically a much larger disparity between the two sized engines in terms of potential peak flow. To be more clear, my overall goal is to produce 380-430whp N/A and 600-800whp boosted with either engine setup and I want them to go into a Z31 300zx. Good response, obviously. Multi-purpose in terms of what performance category it'll be used in, though it'll mostly just be a fun street car.

[@Jake39019]

I went from a 362SXE to a 368SX-R and I can't believe how fast it spools. I pulled graphs up and it's almost indistinguishable. The 68 punches so much harder

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@Jake39019 thanks for the info - much appreciated

[@SuperSchnabulator]

Can you provide graphs ? I am very interested.

[@Jake39019]

@SuperSchnabulator don't think I can post pictures here but I was hitting gate pressure of 27psi at like 5700 rpm on a 3.0l

[@drewdavis239]

You don't consider that late spool? 5700 , on a 3.0? I know a basic 366sxe hits max torque just over 4000 on a 3.0. A 362 spools at least 500 rpm sooner than the 366. (M54b30 , 3.0 , only 20psi. I don't think 27 should take 1500+ more rpm. )

[@Jake39019]

@drewdavis239 moreso a engine issue. I'm on a 35+ year old engine design, stock head and cams. On a more current, more efficient engine, it would spool faster. It might spool faster than 5700. I'd have to look over logs tbh. Was just an estimate. Realistically it's probably closer to 5000 now that I think about it. I'll check my logs and let you know. You probably also have a smaller hot side than I do. I'm making 700+ wheel, estimated of course based on boost, and my knowledge of this engine. It did 560 wheel on low boost on my 62sxe

[@kylemilligan752]

Perhaps I am wrong? The compressor maps say this a match for 250-300 bhp engines with wastegates

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@kylemilligan752 the power range start at 300HP upwards. Depending on the size of the engine and boost level you the smaller 64mm SXR will produce around 300Hp without surge or choke issues

[@kylemilligan752]

​@@TurboDirectSAI think we have a misunderstanding, a 275-300 brake hp engine will run off these compressor maps out to their max .compressor/turbine rpm is going ballistic.recomending running a turbo to the max possible on the map is beyond foolish

[@TurboDirectSA]

@ 300HP will Never see the ROM of any of this range of SXR turbos close to their max rpm. - just not physically possible. Where are you reading this info from?

[@NelsonSakwa]

I know you responded to my comment in the previous video about s200 coming up later but I would like to know, given your experience, how the s258sxr will perform on a 2L TFSI (83.5mm oversized pistons) , especially in comparison to the 7163. I know the sxr is more like the EFR7670, but in terms of response and power potential, how good of a choice will it be . Especially myself who wants to upgrade from my 6758 twinscroll

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@NelsonSakwa all the EFR similarly sized turbos will always outspool the SXE/SXR for two main reasons, EFR is ball bearing and use the GammaTi turbine wheels - they are extremely light weight. The turbine wheels on the EFR is also mixed flow - BUT that doesn’t mean to say the SXE/SXR is laggy - laggy in comparison to what - they outspool any Garrett or Precision turbo journal bearing for mount Al bearing size for size - and more importantly outlast the others by leaps and bounds too. The bearing setup on the Airwerks range is bullet proof!

[@NelsonSakwa]

@@TurboDirectSA Yes I get EFR vs SXR EFR will come out on top due to gammaTI and BB. Let me put it this way, how laggy and more future proof will the S200sxr be against the very similarly sized EFR7670, given the fact that from the compressor maps, the s200sxr makes 125hp more than the 7670

[@NelsonSakwa]

Another thing, is it possible to create your own 'hybrid' ? ie take the SXR compressor wheel and swap out the one on the 7670 given they are more or less same size?

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@NelsonSakwa the SXR will make more ontop without a doubt as it has a higher mass flow rate. But where is it that you want the power? Is this a street car ? If so you do want some midrange or the car will be a dog to drive!! If it’s a circuit or track toy with occasional street drive then top end power isnt a bad thing. The EFR7670 makes less power yes - BUT I can guarantee you that it will out accelerate (gear for gear) the SXR around a track with slower corners as it will make more power for longer than the SXR, yes the SXR will catch the 7670 up top but it will have to work hard to make it up. More power isnt always better - DEPENDING on the application. Example my golf7.5R used our smaller IS38-450 and it does a consistently faster 0-160kmh run (without launch control) because of the additional 400-600rpm better low down response. Using launch control the cars run similarly up till around 100-110kmh then the 550 pulls out - boost for boost Also keep in mind that say you are boosting 1.2bar boost on pump fuel on both turbos, at this point you won’t see 125HP more from The SXR - the EFR will spool quick a lot faster and pull away from the SXR. BUT on the other hand - setup the car for max power on both turbos (different boost setting apply) and then do an acceleration run and you’ll see a different result again. It’s a wide and open conversation All that depends on a lot of different things. I think I’ll do a video on this topic for you in the coming weeks - to give you more info on this

[@TurboDirectSA]

@ won’t be possible due to the hole diameter of the EFR vs SXR - they differ

[@AdmissionGaming]

What turbo should i use for my rb25 to make 600whp??

[@mixxeerr]

Love it!!

[@AdaneEdmund]

Which would be best if coming from a S366 SX3?

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@AdaneEdmund what HP target? What engine? What is the fuel and intended boost you want to run?

[@AdaneEdmund]

@@TurboDirectSA 2JZ no HP targets but boost target of 20psi on pump and 35+ psi on Race gas

[@walther89]

Anything to recommend to replace my g35-900 garret ? im in between 470-550kw, most important is i need coolant and oil cooled lines and ballbearing.

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@walther89 EFR8474 black series will destroy the G35 -

[@SuperHbkforever]

Well damn. I went from wanting an efr 6758 for my 1.8t to now wanting the s258sx-r. I just want the most responsive turbo possible for that engine. And then for my n54 i was planning on going s366sx-e, but now im stuck between the s364sx-r and the 368...why does BW have to keep doing this The 1.8t is currently stock turbo and self tuned to 20psi. Its peppy and responsive but no top end to think of. The n54 has hybrid turbos, also self tuned to 24psi and make peak boost by 3600rpm and totalling 625whp. Id love a single turbo that feels that responsive, if not more, and has the ability to touch 800whp if i decide to build the engine. I know theres a lot to unpack from my comment, but recommendations would be appreciated

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@SuperHbkforever haha Borg are progressing buddy - the SXE is old! The new SXR is something really impressive! For the 1800 20V - it’s a very lazy engine in stock CID - unless you stroke to 2.0 - you need nothing bigger than the EFR7163 - that will be a dynamite setup on that engine and make 500-520WHP

[@802Garage]

The value of the SX-E and now the SX-R is absolutely astounding. Compare them to even the cheapest Garrett turbos and it's like a bad joke. Borg Warner is really cooking.

[@TurboDirectSA]

@ Garrett don’t have an answer to the SXR I’m afraid and definitely not for the price

[@NelsonSakwa]

I actually run the 6758 twinscroll on my 2L TFSI EA113. It's very responsive and fun especially on the street but I want to go to something bigger so I am also thinking of the 258sxr, to future proof for big power (more than 7163) though I am also wondering how the response will be @turboDirectSA . Engine runs oversized pistons 83.5mm

[@SuperHbkforever]

@@TurboDirectSA they always say pick the turbo for your goals. And my goal is the most responsive turbo for a street driven daily a4 that can run 450+awhp. I do have the crankshaft to stroke it out to 2.0 already, but I would want to enjoy it in stages without having to buy multiple turbos. Looking at the 258r it does seem very responsive, but is it way worse than the 252sxe/efr6758?

[@amandalabate2049]

Looking to make eleven hundred wheel horsepower out of a k24 Can you give me a turbo recommendation

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@amandalabate2049 you would need to up to The S400 range for this power target. The Honda revs high and most compressors run out at high engine RPM

[@ManagerVitaly]

I appreciate the effort that goes into making these videos, but I must admit that I cringe a bit while watching them because some of information doesn’t seem accurate or well researched.