Turbulence Sucks! Landing at Sedona Airport with Moderate to Severe Turbulence | Beechcraft Sierra

[@grummangreaser4701]

Hell yeah! Subscribed brother! Is that a Sierra?

[@PaperPilotJack]

Yes sir! 1974 B24R Sierra

[@grummangreaser4701]

@@PaperPilotJack I’ve flown one of those! Climbs like a rock lol

[@PaperPilotJack]

@@grummangreaser4701 Sinks like one too! But if the plane is light (only me 150lb) I can get about 900 fpm on the climb out.

[@PaperPilotJack]

@@grummangreaser4701 awhile back flew out of KLAS 115 deg at near max gross... 200fpm 😰 and took up a whole lot of runway.

[@grummangreaser4701]

@@PaperPilotJack damn!!!!! That’s insane

[@Michael-oy3pz]

That looked like a lot of fun 🤩 I always love shooting these challenging approaches as it helps to maintain and sharpen my skills plus it’s just plane ✈️ fun….sorry couldn’t resist. Stay safe up there ✈️🇦🇺

[@ronwarber535]

Great bit of flying mate!!!! Well done it bringing it down safely, the USS Sedona can really test your skills, well done!!!!

[@PaperPilotJack]

Thanks 👍

[@ASPextra]

This is part of why people almost never land 21 in Sedona. It’ll ALWAYS be bumpy in the afternoons and the terrain off of 21 is rife with big downdrafts there. Almost everyone lands RW3 with up to 10kt tailwind because of the slope of the runway.

[@PaperPilotJack]

Not sure I agree with you on landing 03 with gusting tailwinds. That seems more dangerous than dealing with downdrafts and gust landing into a headwind. I would hate to have a huge performance degradation on base/final stall due to a sudden increase in tailwind or conversely overrun due due increased tailwind. Per Sedona Airport website's pilot advisory video: 03 typically used for calm wind landing and 21 for calm wind takeoff. But during gusty winds, though not suggested in video, I think it's safe to say the favoring runway should always be used (per reasons above). See video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nojVk2CueLBkqKM&ab_channel=ArizonaAviationSafetyAdvisoryGroup Some good advise was provided in previous comments where flying into a gusty 21 with downdrafts can be mitigated by setting your aim point/landing point further down the runway. Might I add to that to be super sensitive to your power inputs to be ready to cram the power in for TOGA. Appreciate the comment. Safe flying to you.

[@lawman5511]

With a west wind, must watch that sink off the approach end of 21. I just plan on staying high and landing about a third of the runway down in the 182. In the winter I only need about 700 ft of runway at my usual landing weight, 2500 pounds.

[@thebucketbus9370]

Moderate is when my freight hits the ceiling. ;). I'm a freight dawg. Severe is when my head hits the overhead panel.

[@PaperPilotJack]

LOL. Copy that!!

[@TheRealRoch108]

I’m outta KRYN….Love Sedona…fortunately not moderate to severe….No major altitude drops…Glad you are all safe

[@PaperPilotJack]

Thank you. The go pro definitely takes the bumps out of how it felt. I remember that it was so bumpy that it rattled my nerves and it was difficult to concentrate on what needed to be said/done correctly. Controls were definitely much more challenging than normal. while not severe (loss of control), it was jarring to say the least. Happy landings!

[@jasonhansen5863]

Husband is stressed, wife shopping online. Love it.

[@PaperPilotJack]

First part was true, wife was probably playing SlottoMania haha.

[@archerpiperii2690]

A fine landing! You should have included a heart rate monitor display - it would have been interesting to see those levels. ;)

[@PaperPilotJack]

Ha! Thats for sure. I was just talking to a buddy about the most challenging landing yesterday (this one), and remembering that big sigh of relief I made after touchdown which can be heard in the vid.

[@bill832]

Great landing !!

[@PaperPilotJack]

Thank you Bill!

[@blue81blue81]

Long time CFI here. Love that you used the 45 entry. More time to plan. Not sure what you meant by "tear drop". Neither would most VFR pilots. Your pattern was good and after turning final you looked right on glide path. However as u got about half way down final too much jockeying on the power. I know it was gusty but make small power corrections and WAIT for the response. You pulled off too much power and then as you can see had to come way back in again w a big increase at the end. It's a common error. Also got low there on short final. If you don't have a vasi look at the runway. It will tell you if your high or low then correct immediately for deviations A little high is better than too low. Nice landing on the center line. Blue skies !

[@PaperPilotJack]

You are absolutely right. "Tear drop" is a vernacular that should be used for IFR hold-entry instead of VFR entry procedures. Regarding power usage - this approach was particular tricky and required quick/large inputs due to the turbulence and large down-drafts. The big-increase at the end was because of the huge-down draft at the approach end,. If I hadn't done that, we would have been a smudge on the side of the cliff for sure. But I will say yes I probably pulled off too much power on base not properly adjusting for the 20kts headwind which likely caused my having to much descent gradient during final. Sedona is challenging even for the most experienced pilots if you've never been before, a higher approach and carry a bit more speed is recommended so as to not get sucked down by those nasty downdrafts on the approach end.

[@blue81blue81]

@@PaperPilotJack Yep sounds good to me. Yea you definitely made the neccessary power increase at the end there. We always did ground reference maneuvers with students just before learning the pattern and landing. I think most of them thought they were fun but didn't understand their true value until later. That's what flying the pattern is.....just a ground ref maneuver w the runway being the reference incorporating adjustments for the wind. I have never been into Sedona but plenty of other challenging airports. You are an above avereage pilot. Keep up the great work!

[@mr.fabulous1080]

Nice landing! I remember when I flew to Arizona once for my CPL Long xs and I know how turbulance feel like there!

[@PaperPilotJack]

Thanks... I really think I got lucky landing it as smooth as I did given the condition. On a normal day, it's already difficult enough to grease the Sierra. She has rubber donuts for shock absorption. It's really jarring being in those conditions as well, I found myself not being able to think being bumped around constantly.

[@presleycosta4127]

correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that of been a right teardrop entry for left traffic? You said left teardrop entry but you turned to the right?

[@PaperPilotJack]

Haha.. good catch! I had it mixed up with all the left pattern calls. I think it would have been easier if I had just said overhead for the 45 entry.

[@presleycosta4127]

Paper Pilot thanks haha I’m a new private pilot and planning a trip to AZ from Carlsbad California and was thinking of going to Sedona nice video though!

[@PaperPilotJack]

@@presleycosta4127 Congrats Presley! SEZ is one of those bucket list airports you have to go to. be aware of the down drafts on the approach end. I made the mistake of aiming for the numbers and on short final, the downdraft caught me and I had to firewall the throttle. The advise there would be to #1 have a aim point further down and #2 arrive earlier so the winds aren't as gusty/turbulent.

[@presleycosta4127]

Paper Pilot thanks for the tips. Are you familiar with the Phoenix east/west bravo transition? I was thinking to land a Scottsdale first and was contemplating going through the transition or the Luke AFB SATR

[@PaperPilotJack]

@@presleycosta4127 sorry never flown through the bravo transition there. But chances are, if you are on Flight following with approach, they will navigate through or around the bravo as necessary.

[@azcharlie2009]

I've lived in southern Arizona for about 17 years now. If you fly after noon, it's gonna be bumpy!

[@PaperPilotJack]

Definitely a roller coaster of a flight.

[@NadimAJ]

I know pilots who would barf if exposed to that much turbulence but missy on the right was heads down on her phone the whole time. Some good inner ear wiring right there.

[@PaperPilotJack]

lol. she has a strong stomach. but I think being in the front seat helps as well. My son doesn't fair well in the back typically. 🤢🤮

[@joeglennaz]

Great video! Thanks for posting it. I’ve flown into Sedona about 50 times. I live in Phoenix. It’s one of my favorite places to fly to. One question though I have never in all my years of flying heard of anyone say a teardrop pattern or en I can’t remember what you said but I think you said I’m doing a left teardrop. What is that? It appears that you just approached the airport and Entered left downwind on the 45 and then you were just going to fly a normal pattern based on left hand traffic of course. Nice landing also! I landed on that same runway one day and it was everything I could do to get it on the ground. It was so windy and so gusty that I just flew that thing the whole way down especially right at the end when I was about 5 feet off the runway. All things being equal I much prefer landing on 3 rather than 21 One, f several reasons of course it’s uphill and more I. More familiar with it.

[@PaperPilotJack]

Hi Joe, you know what... that is completely my mistake, right after I had mentioned the whole "left tear drop" thing, I was saying to myself, what does that mean? Well, what I mean to say was that I was going to do a tear drop for a left pattern 45 degree entry for left downwind. That would have been a mouthful right? I think the quicker way to say something like that would be, "overhead for the left traffic 45 entry". I'm telling you, flying in turbulence messes with your mind! It's difficult to think of what to say when you are being bumped around like that. Thanks for watching!

[@joeglennaz]

@@PaperPilotJack Hey also sorry for the typos. I corrected those. I often use talk to text and sometimes it just doesn’t come out right.

[@tompera4929]

I’ve flown into Sedona many times (based out of DVT). It’s a great destination and always required my full attention and a sterile cockpit

[@PaperPilotJack]

Hi Tom, I frequently find myself pushing the pilot isolate audio button on takeoff and approaches. Although, I think teaching my fam to Sterile cockpit and maybe only speak up when they see something urgent might be a better idea, use them as part of the CRM.

[@PaperPilotJack]

Also, if U haven't flown KAVX, very similar to Sedona. Landing Aircraft Carrier style.

[@steves659]

@@PaperPilotJack Sterile cockpit means no unnecessary conversation ... anyone speaking up when they see an issue that is critical to the safety of the flight does not violate the principle of sterile cockpit.

[@piper0428]

Nice!

[@PaperPilotJack]

Thanks!

[@hunterayers6879]

Nice landing for those conditions.

[@PaperPilotJack]

I got lucky

[@steves659]

Look up the definition of moderate and severe turbulence and then re-assess the classifications.

[@PaperPilotJack]

Hi Steve, thanks for watching. Maybe the video didn't do what we were experiencing during the flight justice, the entire approach was definitely Moderate turbulence, we were being tossed around in the cabin and "pressed against our seat-belts most entire way down. At moments, the attitude of the plane would drastically change causing the need to put in full opposite control - I would say that borders severe turbulence. That's why I had described the classification of the turbulence as "Moderate to Severe". Severe being defined as uncontrollable. Hope you understand my perspective. Best, Paper PIlot

[@brettjc0483]

I’m predicting that this video’s gonna get a lot more views now that fs2020 is out

[@hunterayers6879]

Yup

[@PaperPilotJack]

You were right! I am getting lots more view on this video!! The Sedona challenge was a piece of cake compared to how this flight actually was.

[@PaperPilotJack]

What score did you guys get on the FS2020 Sedona Challenge?

[@brettjc0483]

@@PaperPilotJack haven’t done it yet... i should.

[@loveplanes]

A bit scary… teardrop? You were descending at 1k ft/min and then you resulted very… veryyyy low on the approach!

[@PaperPilotJack]

teardrop entry is the recommended pattern entry by the FAA/AIM. It's good for pilots to better spot traffic on cross-wind/down-wind. I approached the final as though I was on a normal approach, Sedona is an normal airport, especially during gusty conditions. The resulting 1000ft/min rate was due to the downdraft on the leeward side of the runway. So anticipate the down draft and aim farther down the runway is highly recommended.

[@loveplanes]

@@PaperPilotJack I know but this airport is different... beyond that, check what most of the pilots use and why... 😉. Thanks for sharing.

[@IlIlIlIlIlIlIlIl-v9h]

"Can we go land?" XD

[@PaperPilotJack]

That and "Are we there yet?" I hear it every single flight.

[@jtflypegasus]

interesting...

[@PaperPilotJack]

Thanks! what did you like the most about the vid?

[@jtflypegasus]

nice view of the runway on your short final.....and the surroundings.

[@PaperPilotJack]

@@jtflypegasus thanks for the feedback. I’m thinking about getting a wing cam for a better view of the outside.

[@marioweinhold]

why is it so bumpy !!!!!! :D

[@PaperPilotJack]

Haha... it wasn't fun for anybody that day - at least until we got on the ground.

[@1stinsonguy]

I didn't like the low, on-the-numbers landing in such gusty wind. Felt uncomfortable just watching.

[@PaperPilotJack]

Hi Steegie, trust me, it was uncomfortable to fly and land in that situation. It took all my concentration to get my Sierra down on the ground that day. Just having to account for the high, gusty wind to position the plane was difficult enough, but I had to deal with the unexpected downdraft/lost of performance on the leeward side of the runway. On short final you can see my the my aim-point dropped and I had to apply full throttle to keep the plane at proper glide path. Once that glide path was established and I had the runway made, I cut the throttle and landed. My landing on the numbers likely had more to with the high head wind than anything else. It drastically shortened the landing point. I've been there a few times after this and my pre-landing included coming in high on the glide path and aiming further down the runway to avoid that downdraft issue on final. I appreciate your thoughts and comment! Best, Paper PIlot

[@1stinsonguy]

@@PaperPilotJack Yes, in those conditions one has to take the bull by the horns and be the master of the aircraft. I encourage everyone to fly on windy, x-wind days. If a little rusty get with your instructor.

[@oraziobarna6527]

too low on short final next time do it 100 feet higher

[@PaperPilotJack]

Yes! Yes! Yes! This vid happened on my first flight out to Sedona. It wasn't my intention to land "as normal" as I did expect some downdraft, However, what caught me off guard was just how hard the drawn draft and loss of performance was on base/final. My subsequent flight definitely adjusted for those factors.