THE MEDUSA RETURNS! Dark Elves vs Skaven - Total War Warhammer 3

For Events, Tournaments & Discord Links: totaltavern.com/
TWW3 here to support the channel: www.nexus.gg/turin
Twitter: / turinrts
Support the stream: streamlabs.com/turin
/ turin
Channel Sponsors: / @turinrts
#Warhammer #totalwar #Turin

[@Terabirb]

Petition for turin to do another "Best and Worst Unit of Every Faction" video

[@Arkancide]

When was the last one, Warhammer 2? Been a bit at least.

[@danielatar4686]

Yes! Summon the haggard counts!

[@yorickvlt1021]

Yes please!

[@florians9949]

@@Arkancideit was back when war wagons were still trash.

[@ShirosTamagotchi]

Yes. I want to see bloated corpses again

[@denharte8670]

I love Lokhir. All these calm, collected Vader-type Dark Elf lords and he's got his caps lock stuck on.

[@HiddenEvilStudios]

KRAKENLORD OF KAROND KAR! ONLY HE DARES WRITE IN ALL CAPS!

[@JarmamStuff]

@@HiddenEvilStudios SKARBRAND WILL NOT BE DENIED

[@partialmarvin6259]

I appreciate how you almost always throw in some off-beat unit(s). Really keeps things interesting and it's fun to see underdog units do well (sometimes).

[@ashisunblade]

Skrolk doesn't do poison because a unit can only have one contact effect and he has his own. Agreed that plague monks should though!

[@gray007nl]

Censerbearers are the same I believe, they also do discouraged.

[@eduj]

What would happen if you gave him a banner/item that adds poison? Would it just do nothing?

[@looming_]

That's poor reasoning. They could just include poison debuffs in contaminated effect.

[@HiddenEvilStudios]

@@looming_Skarsnik's Death Juice does exactly that.

[@ashisunblade]

@@eduj It would replace Contaminated. As Contaminated is an arguably stronger effect and Skaven have many other sources of poison, I think it's fine for Skrolk to stay the way he is.

[@spellbound1875]

If the Medusa (and the Exalted Flamer) were priced like an ancient salamander (-250 gold) they'd be meaningful choices, main issue is they're just massively and obviously overpriced. Might want to tweak damage, health, or other defensive/combat stats a touch, but it's mostly price.

[@fendelphi]

Yes and no. The Medusa is a much better melee fighter than the Ancient Salamander, while the Exalted Flamer is a much stronger ranged shooter than both of them. The Ancient Salamander is overall tougher and excels as a heavy skirmisher, but in terms of damage, it is usually quite behind. Its projectiles are fairly easy to dodge at max range(even by accident) and not very effective against anything but low or medium tier infantry, and its melee is only good enough to be discouraging, not a threat. It has a sweetspot between 25-50% health where it is most effective. The Medusa and Exalted Flamer might be slightly overpriced(but only about 50-100 or so), while I think the Ancient Salamander might feel slightly underpriced in certain situations(when allowed to skirmish). But they are both major threats to various targets. A major issue for them, is filling a role in the army. The medusa is competing with both Scourgerunners(mobile hybrid) and other Terror causing monsters for its role in the army, and the Exalted Flamer does not quite feel like a 50% upgrade over the basic flamers(and even they are kind of niche in most armies). Neither really fits into the standard army builds. So while the price is a bit discouraging, it is mostly due to other choices are simply "better" for the role. You would have to greatly reduce the price(to the point were other choices feel inferior) or greatly buff their stats, to make them feel like they are worth taking outside of very specific setups.

[@spellbound1875]

@@fendelphi This take feels very much like you're defending existing pricing because it's been present for some time. The argument that internal roster competition makes these units unplayable doesn't support the current price structure since that price structure is largely responsible for the internal roster competition. Scourgerunners (which have entirely different targets) and flamers are much cheaper so the squshier SE units aren't in consideration. If they were around 250 gold cheaper they'd actually be able to pay for themselves sometimes. Even then your assessment of the unit is overly rosy. The medusa has better combat stats but is down 65 armor which makes is substantially less survivable against all targets, and the faction lacks any sources of healing or damage mitigation. Comparing the shooting the Medusa has higher explosive AP damage but the biggest issue is having 35 less range which makes her extremely easy to counter shoot. In terms of shooting against chaos warriors both are hitting for around 600-1000 damage per successful hit based on their explosion radii, so in practice you trade shooting prowess and survivability for melee prowess, a negative trade for the unit type further punished by an extreme price disparity. The Exalted Flamer is even worse, starting with half the health of the other two units and no effective combat stats. You'd assume this would mean it's shooting would be amazing, but it isn't gaining only around a 50% damage in which is massively undercut by the tiny ammo pool. To be properly playable the unit likely needs an ammo pool buff in addition to a massive price cut, though even then normal flamers likely outshine it. I do not think it's necessary to make the units outcompete other options on the roster to be appealing, they need to not be negative value generators when used well, which is currently mostly an issue of cost. The Ancient Salamander used to be 1300 and it was unplayable then CA cut it's price down to 1050 and it suddenly became a staple in certain match ups.

[@fendelphi]

@@spellbound1875 I am simply saying that reducing the price to a similar value of the Ancient Salamander is not going to make the unit perform any better, only that it is less of a drain when it ends up performing poorly. The Ancient Salamander has the benefit of performing a rather unique role in the Lizardmen roster(high speed, durable skirmisher). Most Dark Elf players will still rather pick Manticores or Scourgerunners if they want something to break lines, hunt characters or need a heavy skirmish, because those units are still cheaper than 1050 and perform their role well already. If the Medusa had fire while moving and more Mass(1300 Mass is low for a "diving" unit), it would be easier for the unit to earn its 1300 price point, since it would be easier to use in its intended role as a mobile hunter-killer. It would still be situational, but it would be able to perform when you need it to. And if it was 1200 gold, even better.

[@u-mos8820]

I found medusa aren't really great melee combatants, but do have a great disruptive charge. But! Their shooting is actually really good in WH3. so their better as a skirmishing monster. 69th upvote, nice.

[@SymphonyEternally]

Same, I think they're really good if you use them like they're a Salamander off the Lizards. Shooting very strong, but melee is mediocre.

[@fendelphi]

Also, damage value does not tell the whole story. It is an indicator of performance, but only part of it. Breaking enemy formations through terror or leadership penalties through damage(it did over 16k), as well as having a piece that absorbed a good mount of damage, yet kept being a high potentiel threat. If it were to be replaced, there would have been situations that would have turned out worse(and possibly other that would have been better).

[@oxen568]

Would like to see the medusa get a net ability called turned to stone or something along those lines. Thematic with their gaze and would give more reason to bring them with how useful nets are.

[@toxlequa]

Really like seeing unusual lord/units. The Medusa will work one day!

[@xyro3633]

I've always found Medusas to be far more useful in a ranged role than in melee. Their explosive AP missile absolute shreds all kinds of infantry. Just keeping her away from the frontlines, it's not uncommon to see her bloodwrack up hundreds of kills during a battle

[@grinder0244]

Fellhearts a real powerhouse in the battlefield and the druchi lineup, although expensive, is top tier. Its a great faction to show off a players skill. A good druchi player can be unstoppable, but a newer player will get their high tier stuff bogged down and picked off.

[@borisboris2798]

Just gotta say, I absolutely love these amazing thumbnails you're pitting out with the videos, they always get me super hyped for the match!

[@oldrin1876]

I love Lokhir Felhart! He is cool love to see him! Medusa's are incredible looking too.

[@maciejtedeque8096]

"liber oneshoticus" oh God

[@kouvang522]

Ask for the Memedusa and you get the Memedusa. Thanks Turin.

[@elysia3294]

nice, love the medusa pick!

[@christianweibrecht6555]

A long time since i have seen Skrolk

[@jacksonville9642]

Finally, the medussy comes back

[@AxeltheD]

I don't get you not liking medusas. If left shooting they can destroy entire armies

[@mariojorge68]

>If In MP that's a big if sometimes

[@fendelphi]

They have good damage(melee and range), but are quite vulnerable to damage themselves. This makes them very difficult to use in MP. And with a price of 1300, you have to micro them a lot to get good value out of them. Dark Elves have other fast, Terror causing units(manticore) and other mobile hybrids(Scourgerunners), all of which are cheaper depending on what you need. There are situations where Medusa shines, but the are very situational. Another issue is mass. 1300 for a "diving" monster is not ideal and makes it pretty easy to trap.

[@josephfairhurst4294]

I love the medusa, I think they should let it fire whilst moving, maybe increase reload time cause the blasts are powerful, just don't get to use them enough

[@Zapnl]

The Shrine version fires while moving and gives melee auras, this version is meant to be ranged support

[@fendelphi]

Fire whilst moving would help. As would an increase in mass.

[@Amonabus]

I don't believe units can have more than two contact effects. Skrolk having contaminate and magic damage would keep him from having access to poison. Tho, plague monks should def have poison.

[@fendelphi]

The thing is, you can cast Blessed with Filth on a group of slingers(or other units) and get poison effects where it is needed(for a limited time), or you can mix in other units that have it inherently.

[@srdjan455]

I never noticed that Medusa has snakes on her snake tail

[@klarthkoken1925]

Can anyone explain to me the point of abilities that give + melee defence while in combat? Surely in combat is the only time melee defence is a relevant stat. What am I missing?

[@baileyswiekatun9613]

Love seeing non-meta/“bad” units, it adds spice to the battles instead of it being cookie cutter armies.

[@Zoey--]

Turin do you know that if Burning Head hits a wall it bounces back? I ask because I often see you cast it like here at 9:00 where there's a rocky outcrop nearby it could bounce off to hit a unit TWICE and you instead launch it harmlessly off into the distance. Something to experiment with to maximise your damage output for that expensive spell. Situational but on some maps? Excellent.

[@Zapnl]

It does bounce. Source: Seen it on siege maps many times. However, which terrain bounces it and at which distance doesn't seem to be all that reliable, in my experience.

[@fendelphi]

Terrain geometri can be wonky(can send it in an odd direction), especially with a wind spell that moves semi-randomly. There would be a chance for it to miss the outcrop or have it bounce into his own units. And in the middle of a battle, where APM is very important, you dont usually have time to consider possible wall bounces.

[@JulianAdorney1]

Possibly dumb question: why don't we see Yuan Bo more in multiplayer? He's an awesome sniper (executioner ability, executioner passive, anti-infantry, AP), he can turn into a dragon and so he's very hard to tar pit, and the combination of net + Comet of Casandora seem like an absolutely brutal combination. I would think he would be an auto-take over Zhao Ming.

[@sherpamcderpa1961]

Lokhir is a badass

[@chewyhazerd3587]

Would Medusas be better if they were faster and anti-large to be similar to Sepulchral Stalkers?

[@fendelphi]

The Stalkers are great because they have stalk. They are hard to target pre-emptively and can ward off flankers due to volume of fire/number of models. The Medusa is a close range damage dealer and disruptor. Much stronger in melee as well. It lacks fire while moving and more Mass to get in and out of engagements. If it gets that, it could be a powerful piece.

[@PenderTheTyrant]

Probably worstmatchup to bring a Medusa, maybe against Khorne or Nurge since it just outright kills models of elite infantry?

[@sclarke6969]

Great to see the Medusa. To be fair you should be using it for the pewpew not the tailwhips!

[@regulusm1518]

GG

[@struuner]

medusas should have a higher rate of fire

[@niconilo97]

Huh i think medusa are actually pretty good ! But people need to use it more like a mobile arty piece and less like a fighting monster A bit like spectral stalker ! She have a lot of ammo and she is pretty swift on her tail ! I think she have good applications whit infanterie build like this corsair rush Being able to burst down an infantry stronghold Pretty good against foot character too whit her laser beam ! :)

[@trainheartnet5657]

I'm going to be honest I forgot the medusae existed.

[@adamhaworth6014]

turin, i lokhir fellforyourheart

[@mitchellb8315]

Petition for plague monks with poison yes yes!!!!!

[@daikoncash]

hey Turin, what would you think about playing as specific sub-factions giving bonuses to related units? Example: Picking Clan Pestilens would give you some map-wide bonuses for plague monks units. Playing as the Blessed Dread would make corsairs stronger. The downside being that it will of course be more obvious what you're going with. Think something like that could work? Fun food for thought. Great video as always!

[@romantroshkin3142]

I think at this point it is pretty much obvious that CA deliberately makes new units like akshina ambushers overpowered for people to buy the DLC. Do they think they do not bring anything new to the game that they need to force people buying the DLC with how they ballance?

[@caseypittman9950]

Bring back Maelstrom!

[@SmilingJack100]

Feels like the Skaven could stand to get a tune up after so many nerfs.

[@davidhastie3555]

warcraft 3 please!