Turn-Based Combat Doesn't Suck

Square Enix needs to stop being such cowards and release another turn-based final fantasy.
Goblin Ahegao picture by Fu-Do: / fudo_monsuta
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Twitter: / vinnysuperg

[@brycerichardson3687]

AHEM. Shin Megami Tensei came before Pokemon. S'all I gotta say.

[@vinnysuperg123]

I know it was a pretty bad mistake on my part lol.

[@Nova67827]

Ahem smt visual novel came out in 1890 and the nes tittles came out in 1897

[@michaeljames6737]

@@Nova67827 video games existed in the 1800s

[@Nova67827]

@@michaeljames6737 shin megami tensei technically didn't

[@michaeljames6737]

@@Nova67827 huh??

[@garyfink17]

My issue with turn based gameplay is that on longer fights you're just repeating the same sequence over and over, and the same animations to boot. It would be nice if there were multiple animations for each attack so it doesn't feel like a repetitive chore.

[@vinnysuperg123]

Gary Finklewitz XVII I agree that the attacking animations can get stale, but I don’t think that ruins all the other elements of the combat. It’s more about the tactical element of it than the visual. It’s like a game of XCOM or Civ. You are doing a lot of strategic thinking, but what you are seeing is not the most visually interesting. And I mean, no matter what I think the animations and visuals in something like Persona 5 or even Octopath Traveler more than make up for it.

[@garyfink17]

@@vinnysuperg123 I guess I'm just a stickler when it comes to animation. It's my major in college.

[@radeknaprstek3886]

It's so gaddamn boring. I quit playing FF6 after 20 hours of this agony called combat system and Chronno trigger is the same thing. The games are amazing but the combat ruins the experience for me.

[@dino339]

that's why i like legend of dragoon, it fixes this issue by having basic attacks combo requires timing a button press in order to chain the full combo.. and for spells you can repeatedly spam a button and see the spell grows stronger as you increase it's attack power... all this make fights more engaging/interactive rather than waiting for animations to end.

[@papermoon7139]

My defense for turn based combat is the Nintendo 64 game, Paper Mario. Paper Mario is one of my favorite games of all time, and one of the biggest reasons is because of the combat system. It uses an action command system, where you can block damage during the enemy's phase and your own attacks require good timing for them to do optimal damage. If you want another example, there's actually a new game called Indivisible that expands on this mechanic, where you wait for a gauge to fill up and then you can commence attacks and combos using different buttons for each character, and you can do perfectly timed blocks to avoid all damage. I get where the dislike for turn based combat comes from though. I used to play a lot of Final fantasy X, and the normal fights got really tedious because all I really did was button mash "Attack".

[@holybands22]

Turn based combat is like any game mechanic, a tool. Depending on how well the tool is utilized, will determine the quality. I've played some interesting games with turned based combat, and I've played boring dumpster fires that boil down to slamming the same attacks and healing moves over and over. And sadly this mechanic just isn't in style at the moment. Plenty of indie games and smaller studio productions out there are making cool new stuff with that type of combat. But most major developers are focusing on open world and action oriented games.

[@laughingleo7739]

You just took the words right out of my mouth. I know this comment, (and video), is hella old, but I think that both became more relevant with the new FF7 remake

[@PkmariO64]

Based

[@cookieface80]

The real problem is random encounters.

[@radeknaprstek3886]

FF6 ptsd kicking in.

[@johnvermintide]

you can't walk normally without meeting a slime

[@megamike15]

whitch is why most modern jrpgs did away with them.

[@durhamskater3212]

Facts, I love how chrono trigger handled that

[@MsPrickles]

Angry birds epic doesnt have them lol

[@RedfurredPikachu]

I do wish more people would take note of the timed hit system from the Mario rpg's. That's a great way to blend a turn based rpg while letting players feel like they have control over what their characters does. Personally I never felt like control was out of my hands in rpg's, but for those that do the timed hits offer a nice compromise.

[@PkmariO64]

Also, I love all of the comments here saying that “if you have to explain why something is fun, it probably isn’t.” By that logic, I suppose that explaining why a game is good means that it probably isn’t.

[@orangecream3340]

Yes a good game doesn't need somebody else to explain why it's good to you if it does it has failed at being a good game. A good turn based combat system should be fun to play with It shouldn't be justified a good system doesn't need justification

[@zoedorrahm]

@@orangecream3340 that is absolutely wrong, because everyone has different tastes. Not everyone finds the same thing fun. Some people like card games, some people like shooters, some people like games that have grinding.

[@zoedorrahm]

WHY DO PEOPLE THINK DARK SOULS IS FUN?! HUR BLURGLY GULRLSGLS. YOU JUST DIIIIEEEEEE OVER AND OVER AGAIN AGAINST SUPER TOUGH ENEMIES. BLURRRRRGGGGHHHHH

[@zoedorrahm]

WHAT'S SO FUN ABOUT SHOOTERS? YOU JUST RUN AROUND AND SHOOT PEOPLE. I DON'T GET IIIIIIIITTTTTTT HURRRRRRRGGGHHH

[@PkmariO64]

@@orangecream3340 - So by that logic, that must mean that Ocarina of Time or Super Metroid are actually both garbage games, since people make videos talking about how they’re “masterpieces”. After all, if something is good, it shouldn’t need a 2 hour video essay explaining why that’s the case. Am I correct?

[@lonkster]

I love turn based rpg, gave me some of my favorite games of all time. I feel people just have zero patience these days

[@tomnookii]

I just dont enjoy menu combat

[@jayceallen6530]

LeonTheSavageMage or because we don’t want to watch people fight we want to do the fighting

[@nasirbarbee5940]

@LeonTheSavageMage you sound bitter

[@nasirbarbee5940]

Yea you do "people nowadays wanna play fornite and COD" 🙄

[@alfredauer6455]

@LeonTheSavageMage what about the tale games they have the best of its realtime combat in its genre not spamming

[@sofaris576]

One aspect I love about turn based games is teamwork. I also like acion oriented games but in those games when I have a partymember I am often to busy with the action to apriciate my teammates help. Morgana from Persona 5 became my favorite video game companion fore many reasons. One of them is that he is so dam helpful. Good teamwork is such a pleseant thing to watch. I like how these games are relaxing but can also be very tense. Fighting a tough boss and watching how you stradegy plays out not knowing if it will work, trying to adapt to the situation if things go wrong that is so intense and fun.

[@DonPetals]

Excellent video, puts the role of modern turn-based JRPG's into perspective. Persona 5 is a hell of a drug, and Dragon Quest XI shows that a very classic combat system can still work well today.

[@vinnysuperg123]

Donovan I still have DQ 11 sitting on my shelf and I’m waiting for the perfect time to dedicate a shitton to it.

[@dragonwarrior7413]

11 is amazing and 5 is too

[@TheDBZCollector]

i'm looking forward to DQ12

[@skippyzk]

It's the same as DND, trash enemies drain resources before the boss. But! In good games they do three other things! They reinforce themes, teach the player about enemy abilities and show how the players abilities react. Like when you fight a bunch of zombies in a dungeon then drop a pheonix down on the boss.

[@abbisarchive8199]

DQXI is my favourite game of all time for how it sticks to it’s turn based roots while perfecting every other aspect of it! I’ve also started playing ff6 recently and I really like it despite my dislike of the atb:). Turn based combat is probably my favourite style of game of all, responsible for some of my favourite experiences. It’s the best 😁

[@beleva09]

"It's literally impossible to never get hit in an RPG" Me thinking about the Rangda I made in Persona 5 that blocks, repels or drains literally every damage type: *Oh really*

[@makotoyuki345]

Cough*What about before you got that Rangda*Cough

[@beleva09]

@@makotoyuki345 touché

[@arielcerecer142]

Megidolaon though

[@jwolternova1051]

It's a strange thing to say after showcasing the mario and luigi series, where avoiding enemy attacks is a core element.

[@geekpotion]

this was great, doing research for an indie rpg and this help me understand the player a little bit more

[@sainishwanth1477]

All these ignorant people in the comments hating on turn based games without giving them a try first.

[@tomnookii]

I'm trying to like it, I assume that's why anyone is here to see why people like them.

[@kei7540]

Im pretty sure every person has played at least on turn based game like pokemon or FF something popular

[@MrTheclassicsgames]

"... while also having a Pokémon inspired capture system"... This phrase hurts me in so many ways.

[@vinnysuperg123]

I PROMISE I GENUINELY MISSPOKE. I meant pokemon was INSPIRED by it, but I completely fucked up.

[@lilowhitney8614]

Tl;dw turn based combat is a resource managment puzzle

[@MrRed424]

I do think random encounters are outdated though. The player should decide if he or she wants to take the course of action of fighting the monster if so possible. Or reward the player for attacking first punishing vice versus.Turn based still works.

[@tiendungcao754]

If you say so then you should play radiant historia on ds

[@ixishadesixi5101]

I’ve been wanting to get into classic turn based RPGs as I recently bought a RG350 to play all my old classic ROMs. I’ve always loved action RPGs(Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect etc.), but shyed away from turn based as I didn’t understand them and thought they were “boring.” But I figured there has to be a reason why people love them and I love games where you can immerse yourself in the world. You have renewed my passion and I’m gonna give these another shot. Not to mention this video is hilarious too. Liked and subscribed.

[@abbisarchive8199]

Just watched the video, great stuff! I wanted to say that I really appreciate your point that turn based JRPGs have evolved over time. I really enjoy old DQ and FF games, specifically the NES ones. I also enjoy newer RPGs such as octopath and DQXI. I can see perfectly how these games cut out all of the tedium over time to make the experience ever-smoother. I enjoy the past games because their throughline is insanely satisfying to me - when I first turned on DQXI after playing all the others, I got a little emotional. Awesome stuff man!

[@TheDBZCollector]

has this been done before? using an attack or weapon on an enemy that is strong against that attack or weapon and it benefiting them? say you use fire on a fire enemy then their attack or defense or health is increased by a certain percentage

[@i_am_ergo]

I always thought that "role" in role-playing games meant that the game enables freedom of characterization of the protagonist as they level up and develop. Not that you "fill a role."

[@scribeofalara6259]

Hahaha no. You must have grown up with Skyrim and other Bethesda titles. RPGs are traditionally based heavily on class systems. Role playing literally means playing a specific role.

[@CC-oi9mc]

No, that’s just a particular type of role playing design

[@pedromoreira4695]

Minor correction: Persona 5 doesn't have a pokemon inspired capture system. The Shin Megami Tensei games, from which the Persona series originates, were actually the series that created the monster collection RPG genre, if it wasn't for SMT pokemon would have never existed.

[@speakle1240]

Guys can you recommend me turn based combat rpg games on ps4 because I'm running out of games

[@forevermagus7706]

Dragon quest 11 and persona 5 ar the popular ones. I am setuna and lost sphear are decent games as well

[@Densester]

"You don't die in the random encounters" *Two Ifrits and a Fur Fur in Romancing SaGa that can instakill you with phoenix and blizzard*

[@reicherwallace6774]

I think you meant to say everything in Romancing SaGa...every Romancing SaGa.

[@Densester]

@@reicherwallace6774 Early game? Definitely, around mid game though you can usually fast forward the fights...late game is where randoms get actually insane-o until you're ready for saruin, in which the randoms become fodder.

[@reicherwallace6774]

@@Densester My point was more that it is seemingly unpredictable difficulty changing with your stats. All the SaGa games I have played seem to have scaling difficulty so it's very easy to accidentally over grind and get completely wrecked if you're not used to the game. But man do I love the series.

[@PkmariO64]

*The Seventh Saga has entered the chat*

[@Densester]

@@PkmariO64 Man what is it with games that have saga in the title and being bonkers hard?

[@Bilal.Hussain.Shaikh]

oh buddy could you name the game that were shown in the videos?

[@SMRPGFAN101]

You missed something about Paper Mario. Notice the numbers. 10 HP is what you start with and 50 HP is what you'll probably end with. I love this as it feels as if each attack has more weight to them than any other RPG. In Paper Mario 64, I start with 1 or 2 damage at the beginning of the game and do 12 (6x2) jump attack by the end with the right badge set-up. Also enemies at the beginning of the game deal 1 to 2 damage while enemies at the end game are dealing 4 to 10 damage. I rarely hear anyone praise Paper Mario for that. The shrunk numbers are also a thing in Magic The Gathering.

[@Maceyoshiman]

Underrated comment. It's a good point. The lower numbers of Paper Mario make everything feel much more impactful.

[@cpthurme]

The really old ones you alluded to (8:53) as having 'not much to them', are the best games to me. I like the Wizardry style of resource management, risking venturing ever deeper into the labyrinths. The combat is very fun to me in turn-based party dungeon crawlers like Dragon Warrior and Wizardry.

[@gamerprince-tl5hg]

One of things I like about Dragon Quest battle systems is how, in many encounters you can't just "choose fire and multi-target to hit every enemy" like in the old turn-based Final Fantasy games. The game has the group system in which most spells in the game only target one enemy or an enemy group but not the entire squad of enemies in battle. So there's more planning that goes with that combined with resource management. Most Dragon Quest battles can't beaten within a single turn and the battles are usually fairly balanced and can rip your party apart if you're not careful and therefore require more thinking throughout the game. Same with the SMT games.

[@blazeofglory4053]

I think Legend of Dragoon is a pretty amazing example of how turn based combat can be a lot more than just "press attack button, use heal when low on health". Especially with the Dragoon forms, and the Additions. That game was nuts, and I almost never felt like the random encounters were annoying because the combat was so fun.

[@DagothDaddy]

It's usually done well in JRPGs the problem with a lot of western RPGs that do it is they tie when you take a turn and how many actions you can take to a stat leading to every character build being no matter what pour points into the speed or AP stat and by the end of the game I can clear entire boss fights before any of the enemy characters get to move. Removing all challenge at the endgame

[@OnePolishMoFo]

Turn based is my favorite combat system. Maybe it's because I grew up with it. I dunno. I'm always on the lookout for a good turn based JRPG but they're so few and far between these days. Any suggestions besides Persona 5 and Dragon Quest XI?

[@fancyesquire8888]

The Legend of Dragoon had an amazing turn based combat system. Still hoping for a remake!

[@davidhvacddc]

That and shadow hearts 2. Classics that seem to be lost in time. Vandal hearts also is a forgotten gem.

[@zachtheraddious3948]

I thought this was the completionist when I heard your voice lol. That's crazy

[@versedrhyme41]

I saw wild arms in there which makes me happy because sony and media vision basically seems to have forgot about it completely. :( edit: JRPGs are actually my favorite type of game and i hate when others trash talk it just because they grew up with new short games that they dont have to wait for the fight to be over and they like "shorter" games.

[@McCaroni_Sup]

5:20 ah random encounters. Personally I think random encounters are too outdated. How about enemies on the field you approach to attack? This can be done really well, and it is in certain games. For me most of the challenge is in making the most of your turns and adapting to the enemies' movements. Micromanagement is second. Also most games I start boss battles with full health and mana because I bring along a recharge item or there are recharging stations of some sort. I like turn based combat, but random encounters are just annoying. I like to engage enemies of my own volition.

[@TheCaliMack]

Or worse (better), encounters that chase you until you until you run or fight.

[@kingcrgp]

1:25 name off game please.

[@skepsys_d]

Great video discussion, Thank you for keeping the dream alive! Stay safe.

[@envyusbuster2644]

Thank you Vinster for an upload poppa bless

[@Eskinor]

wut gaem at 5:20? Looks fucking beautiful

[@tonyfrostedflakes9042]

12:03 this hurt me. Megami Tensei came out before pokémon existed (1987)

[@JoJo-wb1eb]

Lol dunkey is a big reason why so many people dont like turn based. Nothing against dunkey though hes a great reviewer just dont see eye to eye on rpgs

[@GA-od1fv]

I do not like turn based but not because of dunkey the only turn based game i like is mario & rabbits

[@someguyparagon5273]

I thin you should try Megami Tensei series its really good... in fact it was actually the one that started the trend of having Monsters as your allies... I mean I only played SMT 4 and Apocalypse, (currently) playing strange journey...

[@bloodblade1221]

Another great video with clear effort put into it, but still criminally low views.

[@NotXsoXoptic]

Square could still easily add so much to the turn based combat system but like you said, they are scared for some reason.

[@TerahAsh]

They are not scared. They realize that all turn-based games suck, even if there might be a niche market for them.

[@kei7540]

They aren't scared it just sucks

[@aryianskye6022]

Yet a turn based rpg maker game grossed almost 1 billion in sales. And rpg maker program has been going almost 20 years plus and grossed billions. No they arent scared i can agree they are just money hungry and it easy to push out no brainer hack and slash games for 40 to 60 dollars that ppl will go ohhhh over graphics and then get bored of 4 hrs later.

[@waifubreaks1572]

Have you played Xenogears or Xenosaga? It's like Paper Mario with Jesus and Mechs. Kinda like Neon Genesis Evangelion but with androids.

[@xr1650]

I didn't even finished seeing the video and I subbed. I really miss the classic rpg from back then, I loved the turn based combat so much.

[@JrSwifterzz]

>Persona 5’s demon capture is inspired by Pokémon

[@c0ffeeg0blin]

Shin Megami Tensei does predate Pokemon as does Dragon Quest V also a byproduct of the SMT franchise's inspiration. Likely a slip up on Vinny's part. Persona definitely isn't the monster tamer of the series but close.

[@abovethelaw4417]

Persona sucks

[@kumarshivam1234]

@@abovethelaw4417 I also thought that but when I played persona 5 , I got addicted, turn based combat is not for everyone. But it doesn't mean that it is bad

[@abovethelaw4417]

Kumar Shivam “TBC is not for everyone “ well u can say that for any game tbh. TBC isn’t completely bad as a whole, it’s just these cringey anime high schooler games like persona are overrated and boring

[@kumarshivam1234]

@@abovethelaw4417 it is overrated because u didn't enjoy it as much as u had heard from others, that is a bad way to think, u can just say I didn't like persona 5, u cannot portray it as a fact, I didn't like metal Gear Solid 5 although it was praised by everyone, but if I don't like metal Gear Solid 5 , it doesn't mean I would say it as overrated.

[@EDGE_666]

My man is alive again. Welcome back

[@motivationalpizzaman9718]

i would like to mention that limit breaks in final fantasy also bring a lot of tactical and animation variety that makes their battles very satisfying. also squalls gunblade mechanic is a small but engaging mechanic that more turn based games should do

[@GatesOfAvalon1]

9:36 who is that

[@WinspearUltima]

Turn bases are very fun, I grew up with them since I was a child. And now a days I’m very addicted to them. My personal favourite has to be the atb/active time battle system as you watch a bar fill up and you’ll get your turn as I love it. I really wanna play chrono trigger as I am thinking of that game a lot since I completed ff6

[@ratmilk671]

I liked and Subbed after hearing you power up at 2:33

[@tendo3541]

It is almost impossible to not get hit in these rpgs Mario And Luigi Dream Team: You dare challenge me

[@GamesOverCoffee]

Hey, I just wanna say that I've barely played any RPGs...like I've played Pokemon Red...and Silver...and that's it. I've never enjoyed them and because of that, I've have a whole huge genre of games I've never gotten into. And you my friend, may have single-handedly changed that. I've been looking all over the internet for someone to explain why RPGs are interesting...and you've done it. I'ma go try some now. Thanks.

[@learniteasy8146]

A game feels more like rpg when you can control all characters elements even combat.

[@vamlov8235]

5:27 somebody knows that game?

[@Crudeman6669]

Now I am motivated to play some turn based rpg

[@ValdVincent]

Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne has some of the best combat in the series. Lets just say the tacts you can use in that game, show up no where else.

[@handlessuck589]

Dante's in it too. nuff said

[@vinnysuperg123]

Finding footage for this video has made me really wanna give SMT 3 a good hearty shot. So I may just do that,

[@InMaTeofDeath]

My all time favorite turn based system is from The Legend of Dragon, no ATB so you can spend as much time making choices as you want but the addition system makes every fight and every attack matter while keeping your engagement high with the timed button presses.

[@jR0xas]

Most people who hate turn based combat never gave it a proper chance. It's a lot deeper than just spamming attack and heal.

[@NinjaSlayer_]

I gave it a chance in Persona 5 Royal, and I didn't mind it at first. until the Okumura boss fight happened, and I was reminded why I never played turn-based games to begin with.

[@roguerifter9724]

I'll always have a soft spot for turn based RPGs though I still prefer turn based WRPGs to JRPGs in general. I had beaten three or four WRPGS and started a few more on dad's oldest friend's PC before owning my first JRPG. Still I typically spent two or more weeks a year in the hospital until I was a teenager and the local Childern's hospital had NES and kater SNES units in the rooms. Turn based JRPGs and strategy games were my games of choice in those periods because they were easy to play with an IV un one hand.

[@thehomiethin4790]

You've kept me waiting

[@rebca_]

5:20 What is this game?

[@mercenary621]

Octopath Traveler?

[@rebca_]

@@mercenary621 Yeah I should've watched the whole video first.

[@MJuegaES]

I'd rather have a built-in choice tbh. The reason I like VATS in FO3/NV is that I don't have to use it, so I don't.

[@forevermagus7706]

Death of final fantasy for me came when Enix and squaresoft merged. Id say 90 percent of players will say best final fantasy is 6, 7, 9 or 10. All before squaresoft died

[@insanepyro322]

Square became mortally ill when they fucked over Xenogears. It just took a few FF games with increasingly obvious flaws until they died.

[@anactualbear5683]

One of my favorite Turn based battles of late is the fight against Algernon and the rat swarm. You get locked in a cave, and then have to fight the endless swarm but only one spot in the mass of rats takes damage (Algernon) and you have to watch for the screen flash to see if you hit him or not. He then moves around and you have to try to find him again. Also if you escape the cave you can get rat poison to help find him among the rats which helps a lot.

[@bukler3934]

Oh wow great video, still I'm amazed on how you went over rpgs that "break" the rules of turn based combat and not went over bravely default/second (octopath traverler's daddy). It turns the whole turn mechanic on its head, giving you the option to invest immediatly your future turns in your current turn by braving, while also giving you the option to defend yourself and store turns so that you can use them with brave after. Still amazing video, I'm a dungeon master of dnd that really loves the turn based combat aspect of it and I'm trying to steal as many ideas as I can from other ingenious games, and this video gave me plenty of ispiration

[@ronaldkinzer6138]

Hey I really enjoyed this video man! I'm currently working on a turn based game now and this gave me a few more things to think about. Keep up the content!

[@TheDutchNL]

i wouldnt mind having some turn based combat game back,look at Mythwar 1 and 2 for example,loved those,aside from it being a mall game,but still possible to get all the things ingame it just requires more effort but it isnt impossible. and yeah i miss these games,been waiting for a while to see these type of games appear again,for now pokemon will do for me i guess

[@gdx1037]

One of the biggest reasons I fell in love with Dragon Quest VIII is because it makes these things immediately apparant. The numbers are low and experience gain tends to get stunted very quickly. A lot of people say you need to grind, but that's not true, it balances the exp you get so that you're fairly leveled so that the dungeon you're gonna go in next has real stakes and preparing and strategy is important. It was the first RPG I beat the game not overlevelled as shit and actually had to attempt bosses multiple times.

[@WeiHuan]

I think some of the big issues people have with turn-based RPGs (Including myself) is that it's a mechanic that's incredibly easy to do lazy (Pokemon, imo). Where it hasn't really changed much since its inception, and pretty much is just selecting menu and "Do Win" (For base Pokemon, anyway. I can't speak for competitive Pokemon.) But a lot of the points you bring up, like say Different Attacks Doing Different Things to Different Enemies, can be applied to pretty much all combat mechanics. Take FPS for example, if one gun was the best option for every enemy, it would become very boring. Turn-based RPGs have evolved a lot since their inception (Mario RPGs, Ni No Kuni, etc), but it's games like Pokemon and other games that kinda slap the old mechanic in and call it a day that I think is what leaves people with a bad taste. Same reason that if Doom never evolved. If it stayed just a maze game with some guns, DOOM 2016 and Eternal wouldn't be as successful as they are and they would most likely be criticized and called lazy. Another one is probably random encounters. In my experience they're just there to pad the game out and nothing more, I know there's probably games that do that well, but I've personally never played one.

[@bh4462]

Still waiting on Square to give us a new FF Tactics game.

[@PukiLynx]

People saying that turn based rpgs suck because of the older games of the genre is like twitter canceling someone over something they said a long time ago.

[@yeoldpepsi]

Thank you Vincent, very cool!

[@Spritzkrieg]

Thank you for existing. I couldn't understand why people liked turn-based combat because I thought of it as actual *combat,* versus what it is, *resource management.* It's almost like a puzzle. I realize that's very simplified, just ignore it. Thankfully, this question only plagued me for a couple minutes before I found this. So again: thanks for existing.

[@averagejoe5145]

Nintendo themselves have had to (for lack of a better term) "rescue" Square Enix titles that feature turn-based combat. Some of the most recent re-releases of Dragon Quest have become Nintendo exclusives in North America because Square Enix's North American branch is just TOO DAMN IMPATIENT to wait for these games to turn a profit (nearly all Dragon Quest games are sleeper hits) & the North American branch just DOESN'T WANT to sell them! A similar situation happened with the "Bravely Default" games as well! Dragon Quest has gotten the shorter end of the stick though at times like when Nintendo was negotiating for the licensing rights to the re-release of Dragon Quest VIII. Square Enix actually threatened to NOT let Nintendo release the 2nd Bravely Default game on the 3DS in North America to try to get Nintendo to stop trying to negotiate!

[@tomnookii]

Really want to play earthbound, early.paper mario games and persona 5 but I just cant get into it. I just love movement in games too much for the main gameplay to be menus. I genuinely want to like it but just cant

[@slashermaster28]

Yeah, I'm still a sucker for turn-based combat for many of the reasons you brought up. Even then, I always love when there's a bit more to it. Timed combat is almost always an instant-sell for me as it gives me more to do during the attack process, like increasing the amount of damage I deal of decreasing the amount of damage I take in. And as tedious as battles in these types of games can be, I love tactical RPGs for giving you an entire map to move around on, adding a certain layer of strategy that traditional turn-based combat wouldn't give you. Although I think what makes me appreciate turn-based combat more is that it gives you more control over the entire party. While there are plenty of great action RPGs that give you allies, I find that the biggest challenge with those games is keeping your party members from rushing toward the enemies and endangering themselves even more than if the game was turn-based because you have far less control over them.

[@gamerprince-tl5hg]

When I play an RPG, I think all I really want is for every decision I make to have weight and not feel pointless. If it does that, I'm probably having fun and enjoying it. I don't get that same feeling out of action-RPGs.

[@donaldogermenji2254]

I get what u trying to say but that's absolutely not true

[@gamerprince-tl5hg]

@@donaldogermenji2254 I literally said something completely subjective. It can't be "not true" or true lol

[@TuShan18]

Turn based games were always kinda "there" for me. I never liked or disliked them, but I loved the games for other reasons. My whole childhood revolved around Paper Mario and Pokemon silver, but I liked them more for their stories and characters. Recently I played valkyria chronicles 1 and 4, and that style of turn based gameplay is awesome imo. One reason is because of the lite 3rd person shooter gameplay of the individual soldiers, so that's cool. Another is the 3d environment, so positioning is very important. And both sides have "interception fire", this means that while someone is moving around the map, the enemy can still shoot at you. Also, if you attack an enemy but don't kill them, they could return fire right then and there even though it's still your turn. This makes a great balance of using the points for your turn important for pushing units to the objective, positioning units for defense to take advantage of your own interception mechanic, and making sure that your attacks either take them down or that your unit can survive if the enemy soldier is still standing. It's so much fun to me because its a great balance of a turn based game, and an rts. Not to mention the awesome characters, voice acting, and art style. Sorry for the long post, but this was a turn based game that I thought executed the style extremely well, and I have over 150 hours in both games combined because of how much fun they are. Great video and channel btw.

[@Tessfate]

cool video but i found the editing distracting, especially with the transitions kinda made the video feel cluttered. still good tho i enjoyed it

[@theyeticlutch3486]

Good video. Man i hope they make this an option for FF7 remake, ill hate it if they dont

[@thedragonballgod9472]

I need a list of every game in this video

[@RadinV1]

I wish more modern JRPGs used the turn based battle system.

[@RadinV1]

@Dawn Razor unfortunately true

[@neoaxel94]

Well it's a good point about resources but we need to remember that you can buy unlimited potion for HP or mana so it's not necessary to manage so much that resources.. this is why I find boring combat turn based I mean I just attack mobs with normal attack and If they land hit on me I can heal with potion and magic and use potions for pm or HP so.. and the money for the potions usually are plenty of it

[@jkphilosophy]

Not being able to better manage your resources can make it impossible to beat the game and have to start all over again, that is what sucks in such games

[@josh1926swag]

Most of the examples that you mentioned are turn based RPGs that people who normally don't like turned based RPGs play. Just saying that Mario RPGs and Persona are games that are more widespread and mainstream to more types of gamers.

[@yemmohater2796]

“Pokemon inspired capture system” Are you sure about that

[@Mqstodon]

I mean, they did. Games did it before sure, but are you really gonna argue Pokemon wasn't the most succesfull and famous?

[@TheVeriOra]

Can you do a video on how one would organize turn based combat code? Like how other games have optimized their systems? No other youtuber has done this and would be trending hot like the sun

[@AnonyMous-og3ct]

My thinking is that TBS (turn-based systems) don't lend themselves to the most realistic visual presentations. It starts to look weird with the most realistic-looking 3D graphics to see a unit just standing there while enemies take pot shots on them during their turns. It doesn't look odd at all if your units resemble figurines on an abstract board while letting the player's imagination fill in what might be happening each turn. Square always seemed to emphasize visual presentation and story more than anything else, like a film studio just as much as a game studio. Maybe phase-based would work well for them than TBS if not realtime. Phase-based allows that sort of real-time presentation while offering some of the strategic elements of TBS. I'm sure plenty of devs will fill in the turn-based niche if Square completely abandons it on beefier hardware.

[@Yin2Falcon]

really put that candy dance to use

[@vinnysuperg123]

Damn right I did.

[@renkii_0]

The reason I hate turn based combat is because of level differences. If you have a level 5 “thing” against a level 61 you can’t win. But if you can do everything yourself, you can beat much higher enemies.

[@arielcerecer142]

It really depends on the game. All of the JRPGs that I've played hand you the tools you need to come up with a strategy to beat harder enemies

[@mastanvx]

Did you just diss Chrono Cross's ost?

[@ControllTech]

I honestly have way to bad of an attention to span to play these games. Or atleast somewhat. When I was little I found some of these games to be really fun. Mario RPG was a banger, Final Fantasy 10 or whatever gave me nightmares cus it was tooooo cool and Pokémon was also alot of fun. I have not played any turn based combat games recently so I kind of want to try Octopath Traveler. (but it's a good video and thank for making it and I see you put lots of effort into it ) (:::::::

[@cry0genic784]

As a kid I never enjoyed turn based games, I played many Pokemon and Final Fantasy games even some Mario tb games but I always beat a few bosses or gym leaders tell then I never play the game due to how boring the game is, a lot of people say they get good once you keep playing but in my view the more into you are in the game it becomes more boring and tedious. One of my favorite games, a real time strategy game Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 is much like a turn based game. Strategy is key, recourse management is required, and as the game goes through you get stronger. But in an rts game you have more freedoms and liberties to do so many things at once without having to take a turn to do one thing and wait for your opponent. Now I seen the argument that if both players are both having a turn and basically having a game of chess that has no turns but every player moves their pieces whenever they wan't that it can be overwhelming, but that's what makes it fun! The anticipation, the having to reacting immediately to an opponents attacks and thinking faster and having the better defense/offence by wisely using time and pressure is something you can't do in a tb game, they feel restricted and leave no room for creativity or play styles.

[@vintheguy]

Bruh Use paragraphs, I feel like I'm having a stroke trying to read this

[@cry0genic784]

@@vintheguy Only if you can use this. ----> .

[@vintheguy]

@@cry0genic784 Okay.

[@tasoganedude]

I couldn't find myself enjoying the main Pokemon games anymore. I borrowed a copy of XY, but I just couldn't keep playing after the first gym. I thought at first that turn-based is just become outdated, but maybe it's the combat itself that has gotten stale, not the turn-based. (Or I don't know, maybe Pokemon is just not for me anymore...)

[@adzesom]

I do have to say i finally got to play octopath traveler II (im broke TwT) and it's stories are fucking killer the first chapters so far are amazing. The mechanic is fun af i look forward to playing it more much worth it

[@zrtrztzrt1753]

What a well manered young man

[@VoltitanDev]

smt's monster capture thing is older than pokemon

[@MsPrickles]

Angry birds epic was my favorite turn based game and nothing can change that