TWiV 1028: Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection and T cells

TWiV reviews approvals of the first gene therapy for severe hemophilia A in adults and a monoclonal antibody to prevent RSV respiratory disease in babies and toddlers, and a common allele of HLA that mediates asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection through pre-existing T cell immunity due to previous exposure to common cold coronaviruses.
Show notes at www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-1028/
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[@lesfaby8997]

KZbin timestamps by Les 00:00 Your only chance to hear the what/when/where of past weather 02:50 Listener Martha sends mouse mascot 04:08 approvals of the first gene therapy for severe hemophilia A in adults defective factor 8 required for clotting 17:15 a monoclonal antibody to prevent RSV respiratory disease in babies and toddlers 19:22 modified FC region to make it durable 19:43 Placebo controlled trials 25:03 Vaccinate pregnant woman 25:53 a common allele of HLA that mediates asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection through pre-existing T cell immunity due to previous exposure to common cold coronaviruses (also covered in TWiV 1027) 30:35 Briane explains the HLA locus 1:21:05 Emails read 1:21:10 Sue Ellen Conspiracy theories. 1:25:44 Yens AKA Bruce Wayne 1:26:35 Humans and their relatives 1:32:25 Lisa OPV pick: Beethoven's hair 1:34:44 Stephanie paxlovid if catch CoViD again 1:35:14 Katie 1:35:51 Picks of the Week 1:35:59 Dixon Climate Change 1:38:51 Briane JW Telescope photo 1:40:33 Kathy Drone photos 1:43:30 Alan WHO Health for all film festival 1:44:37 Vincent Thinking Fast and Slow 1:54:27 please contribute Audio podcast timestamps by Jolene. Thanks!

[@WillNewcomb]

While I'm a non-medic & zero academic etc and therefore understand very little of the details that you discuss, I'm so grateful for your public input. Blessings.

[@baharkarimi5845]

Professor, As much as my breath, I love virology. Whenever I hear about it, my heart skips a beat. I am going to Italy to study medical biotechnology. And I want to do research in the field of viruses. It's not easy, but I'm stronger. 🌿

[@WillNewcomb]

Here in China until December, billions of us were being PCR tested every 48 hours!

[@Favorite-catNip]

Say, do you think that the severe lockdowns, kept ppl. From getting more sick. B.c. USA , folks were all running around with masks. And kids went to school with masks

[@guygrotke8059]

This really takes me back: 50 years ago I was working in a research lab for a transplant surgeon. We were looking at kidney transplant rejection, and I ran the tissue typing for our pool of experimental subject animals. Mixed the type-specific antibodies with lymphocytes and a bit of rabbit complement. Incubated and then added stain. Live cells look pearly white. Dead ones flat blue from the stain getting in. Later we ran a human transplant program, and used HLA matching to find good candidates. I think our real purpose was to train surgical residents, but we did manage to get some grants and do some science. On the SARS-COV2 versus Covid-19 debate, the viral infection is not even the disease! The disease is immune-system reaction to viral antigens, probably after all virions are deactivated. In other words, the virus hardly killed anybody but could induce an autoimmune disease that was sometimes fatal.

[@helengarrett6378]

Arguing about vaccines with people who "believe" that vaccines are deadly or cause neurological conditions is a lot like arguing about the existence of God with a Jesuit. It all comes down to faith, having absolutely nothing to do with science, logic or facts. People "believe" what they want to believe and nothing you say disturbes the belief. I find that arguing with true believers is useless. But educating the rest of us is invaluable. Thank you for your work and educational efforts.

[@traianliviudanciu8665]

May be after SARS COV2 infection, some IgM antibody against SARS COV2 antigen increase eritrocite aggregation at low blood temperature,and increase blood viscousity that can subobstruct lung capillary ,especially If lung temperature decrease.?. Dispneea and low temperature oxigen mix can decrease lung temperature. At some patients with low lung temperature SARS COV2 replicate at alveolar level also.(at TWiV 659 at min29 virologist Christian Drosten suggest that SARS COV2 better replicate at very low tissue temperature)

[@traianliviudanciu8665]

​​@@helengarrett6378what are the rysk of blood spread of lyposoms with mRNA? Did contraction of injected muscle increase increase that rysk? How many hours must avoid to use that muscle?

[@thedevilsadvocate5210]

@@helengarrett6378 Calling an mRNA gene delivery system and vaccine is very deceptive. It is not a vaccine it is a countermeasure.

[@mikeharris4226]

I've been in a double -blind trial program for RSV for 11 months and besides local swelling , I have not been ill one day since the injection. M/66 years old

[@Idahomie]

GREAT PANEL, i would nice to like to hear more from Ms Spindler.

[@razerginn]

Thanks for your time and clear explanations of the science.

[@aliciab4236]

Fascinating conversation as always! TWiV helps me to begin to understand my PhD SIL when he talks shop. I appreciate the effort it must take to distill science down to a level non-scientists can grasp. Thank you for all you do. 🙏

[@stormwalker321]

thank you so much for your shows...they are so great!

[@4everyoung24]

I had to test twice a week for work and the first time I had Covid I had no symptoms whatsoever. But I also had my recent booster. The second time had mostly a cough that lasted a month and lost sense of smell. My 85 year old mother went everywhere and didn’t mask most of the time (a point of contention) and I have wondered if she wasn’t one of the asymptomatic people. She was around all kinds of people who had Covid. PS I loved you show with David Quamann and purchased The Chimp and the River. I plan to read The Song if the Dodo.

[@mohameda.elbehairy8783]

Love the whole episode and this one specifically❤

[@lismartinez5363]

Up late and love the gift of the mouse. Thank you TWiV team. So enjoy these episodes.

[@janakingking3022]

SAME! Very happy to see an episode out there!

[@jillstruthers]

Much ❤️ to Vincent and Crew! I'm so addicted to TWiV! Keep it coming!

[@ardvarq9027]

I remember a certain Oxford scientist being mocked for suggesting that certain previous exposure to certain coronaviruses possibly conferred some immunity to covid 19.

[@jamesleem.d.7442]

Very enjoyable show tonight.

[@MRCAGR1]

7:01 Roctavian was licensed in Europe last August.

[@canoteca]

@1:38 - wow! Dixon on the pine beetle - I did not know that - thank you!

[@tiagomarques715]

Some types of HLA B15 are associated with carbamazepine induced DRESS or Stevens-Johnson syndrome

[@traianliviudanciu8665]

Did we know at what tissue temperature did SARS COV2 better replicate?

[@hgbugalou]

I think I am in this 20 percent. I was exposed to covid in person under optimal conditions for transmission. One of those times was before was before I was vaccinated.. My son had it too and he lives in the same house as me and we share a bathroom. Another time was from my brother and we were playing cards and he was sitting Next to me for 2 hours. I can't say for certain I was infected, but I never had symptoms.

[@TheKrispyfort]

Clotting factor genes expressed in endothelial cells - makes sense

[@denkerdunsmuir3370]

Dixon's comment in response to the discussion of the two sample questions about right vs left lobe cognition explains so much of the conflict our country is still experiencing regarding Co-V ID 19 and vaccines/vaccination. I am of the opinion that American schools just do not teach cognitive skills to accommodate for ambiguity, nuanced and faceted thinking. Our educational systems heavily tend toward binary thinking, yes/no; on/off which produces computers, but is not so good for adjusting to novel viruses, or dealing with virtual unknowns that require communal actions for the best outcomes for the most people. BTW: Please send me to where I can learn to back out to 5 cents as answer to the ? of the cost of the ball when the bat and ball combination cost $1.10 and the bat costs $1.00 more than the ball. I got the other answer by intuition and probably from growing up in a private school system that started us with this type of question in 1st grade. They didn't teach to the standardized tests then like they do now, but those questions never made sense to me.

[@LisaMartinez-ri6ve]

Hope this equation helps you with the ball and bat question. Step-by-step explanation: Let the cost of ball be x We are given that the bat costs $100 more than the ball So, Cost of Bat = x+100 A baseball and a bat cost $110 So, x+x+100=110 2x=10 x=5 Cost of bat = 100+5=105 Thus The bat costs $105

[@LisaMartinez-ri6ve]

By the way I got the answer to the second question pretty quickly too but did not know the reasoning behind my answer. In school we had to study these types of questions as part of our grade school education and frankly it drove me up a wall, but maybe it was worth it more than I realized at the time.

[@anymoose6685]

Funny, when you were talking about vaccine breakthrough cases you were so insistent that it was a SARS infection but, not Covid if there were no symptoms. Why did you have a doubt that your definition should hold when discussing the HLA group? I’m glad you settled on consistency.

[@skepticalbadger]

What? When did they say that?

[@CA-lf7jt]

In June of this year my fam has symptomatic COVID and I was positive but a symp. A few days ago I got it again ( 5 weeks after I last tested pos) and this was the worst COVID I’ve had. So maybe had a low viral load that didn’t protect? And does being symptomatic now protect me from all strains for hopefully next three months ? Also ER dr refuses paxlovid because “it’s for only emergency old people etc” and doesn’t want to Medicate w other quasi medicines like tamiflu. ?!! I’m not young by the way. And have allergic asthma .

[@amariedavidson1]

What area of the country are you? Is Covid still going around?

[@depleteduraniumcowboy3516]

You mean you don't have a doctor and have a plan for paxlovid? Sorry, you are an unfortunate causality of the American health care system working as designed. Which is why me and mine are still wearing masks and acting as if there is a pandemic. Stay safe and good luck.

[@JillKnapp]

​@@amariedavidson1 It never stopped going around. And it's now on an upswing as it's done in late July for the last 3 years (in the northern hemisphere). Reporting is spotty these days which helps people forget about it. Keep an eye on wastewater monitoring; there's no bias in sewage. Sewage doesn't differentiate between lifestyle, politics, hobbies, diet, vaccination status, or opinions. Highly recommended!

[@suesaxton3058]

There's I paxlovid in UK unless you are immunocompromised and acouple of other conditiond . Elderly can't get it .

[@MRCAGR1]

53:19 I have one question, are these people who are fortunate to have HLA-B*15:01 and are asymptomatic when infected shedding virus and hence are infectious?

[@Logotic]

Let's be honest here: Everybody's infectious. We're all ambulatory vats of transmissible microbes and we always have been. We all shed like wet dogs. That's just the way it is.

[@MRCAGR1]

@@gferraro8353 i know there was some controversy over asymptomatic transmission as to whether it could happen.

[@MRCAGR1]

@@gferraro8353 Fortunately there are channels like this to help us navigate through the challenges. Keep safe.

[@christopherrobinson7541]

@@MRCAGR1 During the Oxford challenge study, they did identify a few cases that were asymptomatic and were definitely contagious as they infected members in the control group who were not deliberately infected. What is not clear is the degree to which the asymptomatic group is infectious compared with the symptomatic group. There appears to be a huge variation between individuals. Also the proportion that are asymptomatic is larger than originally estimated, particularly for those infected multiple times.

[@jac9366]

Am I correct in vaguely remembering that the lovely tennis player Arthur Ashe died from aids due to hiv contaminated blood product, or have I got that wrong?

[@actyrrel]

You are correct. Product.

[@jac9366]

@@actyrrel will edit, thanks!

[@susanne5803]

According to Wikipedia he had a severe hereditary heart condition and his doctors believe he got an HIV infected blood transfusion during an early heart surgery.

[@jac9366]

@@actyrrel hopefully after 5 edits I've got rid of all the typos/predictive text incorrect corrections!

[@MRCAGR1]

So did the science fiction writer Isaac Asimov.

[@maureenmitchell7802]

Thanks to all for the great podcast !!

[@aliceobrien8390]

I had a livertransplant, 4 jabs dalta after 1 , not too sick, and I did get omicron after tired jab no symptoms tested because my daughter had covid, must have hat those receptors 😅

[@lobby5t]

You guys are great, as always, and I appreciate that! I suggest we all stop referring to RFK in any context, he’s a disgrace, so no more air time for him. You are all on a higher level of humanity, just let him and the others fade into the dust, as they eventually will. Happy weekend!

[@jarrettthomas4865]

😂😂🤡🤡

[@skepticalbadger]

​@@jarrettthomas4865That's right, RFK is a clown.

[@lesfaby8997]

RFK is his famous father. He is Junior. I would like to see his siblings, who have disowned his anti-vax crap, counteract him. Offit and his team saves close to 30,000 lives a year that used to be lost to rotavirus. The Kennedy family should honor Dr Offit and his team with a medal from their foundation. They could call it the JFK public health medal.

[@lesfaby8997]

@@gferraro8353 I believe you are responding to @lobby5t, not me. The Kennedy family needs to reclaim their good name.

[@darlenedempsey2437]

You ARE all aware of who Ron Desantis appointed to be the Surgeon General of the State ofFL, right? Ivey League trained MD but one of "America's Frontline Doctors".... This is perpetuating some bad things for Public Health in that state.

[@davecarstairs-wilmington3929]

These claims are now completely destroyed. This is a terribly sad decline of a man I once in such high esteem. I find this depressing to watch unfold from a man with such a powerful mind, especially as the facts are now being demonstrated in congress.

[@frankrizzo2025]

Yeah this channel is full of quacks who shot any credibility they had into the sun.

[@Sceince007]

How mind telling us or just pulling this from your lower end ? If you can’t tell is are we allowed to pity you for lacking values and being so dumb ?

[@donnamunro2090]

Love Love Love this episode!!!

[@rezzer7918]

I moved on as they were reporting their local weather conditions and laughing about nothing. What?!

[@jac9366]

Ok, I don't mean to be negative, but drones are to me a complete environmental pest, apart from invading ppls privacy, the level of disturbance in the countryside from these is a tutal nightmare, I go out into nature to try and get peace and quiet and nature sounds and there's some drone constantly buzzing about, yeah it may not be as bad as a helicoper or plane (those are also a nightmare in my home city of Edinburgh UK), but being way cheaper, they are way more accessible, so way more prevalent.... 😢

[@amariedavidson1]

I’d like to know these asymptomatic responses if they live on any supplements for health

[@marklemont3735]

My mom was asymptomatic and had been taking no supplements, but she had all her vaccines and boosters. One person in her facility had COVID symptoms, therefore everyone was tested, otherwise we would have never known. Her older sister had died from COVID before vaccines were available.

[@skepticalbadger]

That's not how it works. Health supplements help your immune system prevent and/or clear infection. They can't eliminate symptoms following a successful infection.

[@Logotic]

​@@marklemont3735So sorry to hear about your aunt, God rest her soul. Those first few months were rough.

[@marklemont3735]

@@Logotic Thank you. So many people lost loved ones.

[@amariedavidson1]

@@marklemont3735 The supplements must have been instrumental in helping her

[@__________5737]

Interesting episode. Where are your financial disclosure? You should have a brief slide for everyone from grants to stocks as ethical physicians do.

[@cynthialeech2507]

None of the members today are physicians. They're Ph.D.'s

[@Logotic]

Why? What are you on about? Are these people corrupt?

[@__________5737]

@@Logotic I don’t know but it is basic scientific ethics. I give them the benefit of the doubt.

[@actyrrel]

I love conspiracy theories. HIV doesn’t cause AIDS? People are fascinating.

[@Logotic]

With respect, and with no rancor or ill-feeling whatsoever, I HATE conspiracy theories. Hate 'em, just fucking hate 'em. Every time someone in my life starts going on about conspiracy theories, I want to cry, because that's a friend who has lost it and will never return.😿

[@actyrrel]

@@three.one_four but that won’t convince them. Distrust is greater than logic. It is emotional. People are fascinating.

[@actyrrel]

@@Logotic I used to also. Now I am just amazed at the choices people make. The crap they eat. The things they buy. The way they spend their time. The things they believe in. It is all fascinating. I have been getting better at not thinking it is my job to correct or judge them.

[@Logotic]

Interesting. My own experience with covid was similar to Alan's: The second vaccine shot was worse than when I caught the actual virus. But even that wasn't real bad.

[@inesvetinparadise9715]

Thank you

[@inesvetinparadise9715]

Are you going to discuss that rabies/cow case you mentioned recently? Where people consumed the animal?

[@markytickers]

Gene Therapy.... you said the longer mRNA expression version of the adenovirus vector was gene therapy... thats not much different to the SARS CoV 2 Astra zenica vaccine. But that wasn't gene therapy?

[@gribbler1695]

Covid-19 vaccines are not gene therapy since they don't modify your DNA.

[@MRCAGR1]

The AstraZeneca vaccine is not gene therapy because it’s not superimposing action of a human host gene to produce a single specific host protein that should be produced naturally in the cell, but the necessary host gene is faulty. It is working as any DNA virus does to replicate by creating non host proteins. You wouldn’t describe an adenovirus as gene therapy, would you? To me that is the difference gene therapy produces normally host created proteins (does not generate an immune response) All Covid vaccines, in fact all vaccines, are not gene therapy because they create abnormal non host proteins that do elicit an immune response.

[@Logotic]

​@@MRCAGR1Thank you for your informed response. That's becoming a lost art!

[@terenzo50]

Does HIV cause AIDS? Ask Ryan White. Or rather ask about Ryan White. People have short memories.

[@terenzo50]

@@gferraro8353 I cringe whenever people like RFK Jr. & science deniers open their mouths.

[@Logotic]

​@@gferraro8353Wow. Just wow. Glad you're still with us and thanks for sharing your experience. Be well! 🤘

[@terenzo50]

@@gferraro8353 Personally, I had the Salk vaccine plus boosters. The OPV is no longer used here. Maybe overseas. I don't know for certain.

[@garyfumeaux9226]

I am still waiting for anyone on your panel or your supporters to show me any paper that has isolated the measles virus.....

[@braptdl1483]

US government sent $700,000,000 to prop up Ukraine last week equal to 300 gene therapy treatments for haemophiliaA, just depends where the priorities lie. The thick layer of profit suck in US pharmaceutical industry doesn't help either

[@Logotic]

What on earth are you yammering about? You're complaining that govt money went to Ukraine instead of hemophiliacs and you're blaming it upon the pharmaceutical industry? That makes no kind of sense.

[@personzorz]

Ukraine is a more efficient use of the money honestly

[@s.maskell7134]

This type of question is annoying because it asks why them but not they as if these are equivalent choices in an environment of limited money. The question is why, having sufficient funds, governments do not ALSO fund treatments for high risk illnesses.

[@depleteduraniumcowboy3516]

No, we are not sending money, we are sending equipment that is valued at a certain amount. Usually old equipment that we would have to pay to have disposed of properly.

[@danlowe8684]

The reason you invite guests that disagree with you, scientifically, is because perhaps, Oxford's Sunetra Gupta, who stated, in early 2020 that (paraphrased) she, 'Would be very surprised if there was not cross immunity between seasonal coronaviruses and the novel one." And, the panel acts suprised a full 3+ years after her (then muted) statement. Or, Stanford's Jay Bhattacharya, after publishing in April 2020, an antibody study published in the journal Nature, that showed a 20X true infection rate vs. public health numbers thus, bring fatality rates into reality. Or, Stanford's John Ioannidis, who not only published an op/ed piece in the journal STAT in early March, 2020, warning about the effects of lockdowns, do no harm, and societal unrest: Ioannidis has recently followed this work with studies proving that non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) were mostly ineffective and likely caused more harm than good. Then, we have the vax deal. When Paul Offit, as a member of the vaccine advisory committee, voted against using the mRNA boosters, and received the support of not only the FDA's Director of Vaccines, Marion Gruber and Deputy Director Phillip Krause (both 30+ year employees) - only to be overridden by pressure from the White House, both Gruber and Krause resigned. This is telling. Gruber and Krause are co-authors of a Lancet paper, making the arguments in it a public rebuttal of the administration’s plans. In addition to the two FDA officials, the paper’s authors include WHO Chief Scientist Soumya Swaminathan and Michael Ryan, executive director of the WHO’s Health Emergencies Program. The WHO has called for a “moratorium” on plans to administer booster doses widely, at least until the end of this year. Then, they went after the unaffected children and infants and pregnant women. This was a demographic that was unaffected by the virus. Sweden had 1.3 million children in school, unmasked, without a single death. The mouse studies showed that ovaries, testes and nearly every other organ stored the spike protein after vax. Yet, no protest from Offit. No protest from TWIV. This is why we need all guests invited. With all points of view. With all scientific studies that know not their sponsorship.

[@christopherrobinson7541]

The HLA study called for volunteers July 2020 and the trial commenced January 2021 and ran until April 2021. The original short paper was posted on MedRxiv May 2021. "HLA-B*15:01 is associated with asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection". A pre-print of the full paper was posted October 2022. Note here I provide a summary, a full account is included in my comment on Dr Griffin's recent video. My wife and I volunteered to be donors (about 20 years ago) and have been fully tissue typed. We have been part of ongoing trials at our large local hospital, conducted by Edinburgh University, which requires us to supply sample monthly. During the pandemic they also used this trial group to test for SARS-CoV-2. When the first HLA pre-print was posted the researches checked their donor database so see if they had any people who had the HLAs of interest. There were quite a lot (20%). They also checked the trial group and found the there were about 20% who had the HLAs of interest. My wife has one copy of HLA-B*15:01 and U have two copies and also HLA-DRB1*04:01. Both of us are fully vaccinated. My wife was infected with SARS-CoV-2 Spring 2023 and had very mild symptoms and was only rt/PCR positive for 7 days. I have remained uninfected, which has been confirmed by my routine tests. I wonder if these HLAs allow the innate arm to be "programmed" to afford additional protection, so that the infection can be cleared without activating the adaptive arm.