Tyrion Targaryen: is Tyrion the Mad King's son?

[@sngtaylor]

I never thought about the fact that all 3 of their mothers died in child birth

[@mikepanag4469]

You are goddamn right...

[@ThereseIrishK84]

mind blown!

[@MrAzzhub]

okay? during that time period, women died from child birth ALL the time, it is nothing special.

[@LeahVandenborre]

Yeah, but its obviously medieval-like times. They did nog have technology at all, let alone the advanced one needed to protect a mother from giving her life by giving life to her newborn. Therefore, logically, a lot of women died "during those times". However- it is a rather specific detail and something that absolutely supports this theory.

[@KayoriAyane]

adam brown the times in GoT are based on past events from medieval perspective, with creative licence added. Even Lord of the Rings was based on a similar timeframe. So yes, we can assume that "death by childbirth" was a common way women died, as childbirth was considered very dangerous by many. Doctors couldn't exactly use xrays and see if a women's womb was torn, much less stitch it to keep it from bleeding.

[@0mNam]

Tywin : You are no son of mine! Tyrion: but I am your son I have always been your-- Tywin: no I'm serious, I'm not your dad

[@wafflingmean4477]

Tywin: I only hated you because you were a living reminder that my former best friend raped my wi- *Tyrion shoots again*

[@wafflingmean4477]

@Dio Falkner That would just take away the tragedy of Tyrion killing Tywin. Tyrion being a Lannister is better for the story. Reveal too many secret Targaryens and it loses all its coolness, hence why GRRM capped it at revealing two, and one's probably a Blackfyre, not a Targaryen.

[@starr0401]

Tyrion: Oh, I guess that makes it more okay for me to kill you? Cool. (shoot)

[@kristavaillancourt6313]

@Dio Falkner The heir's child is the rightful heir. If Jon was killed it would revert back to the children of the mad king.

[@MrCarlorr]

@@kristavaillancourt6313 I agree but I'm pretty sure Jon is gonna die fighting the night king. I theorize Jon will sacrifice Dany to make lightbringer as Azor Ahai did the same thing before, Jon will die in the fight with the night king, and Tyrion will be revealed as a Targaryen and will sit on the iron throne.

[@BeachBeauty95]

so,Jaime killed Tyrion's father and Tyrion killed Jaime's! Fair enough

[@Ruatsanga13]

😂😂😂

[@michonnewalker4246]

The show over Tyrion is a Lannister

[@vanousisi8112]

Jaime it's naturally

[@vanousisi8112]

He died naturally

[@greatgodpan5001]

Michonne Walker the book’s exist

[@TheBrunarr]

I think it's more likely that Jaime and Cersei are the Mad King's twins and Tyrion is the only true child of Tywin, how ironic would that be.

[@johnwayne1069]

They have the targaryen mindset of interbreeding and cersei didn't take much to go MAUUUUDDDDD

[@suranjanghosh8128]

You know that would make the targayens to have ruled all along kinda as Orys Baratheon was rumored half brother to Ageon the Conqueror and Joffrey and Tommen would also have a Targ lineage. Bunch of bs tho.

[@larshamelijnck4400]

That would make Tywin's relationship with Tyrion all the more tragic, just like Jaime's relationship with the mad king. And it is true that the twins appear a little mad themselves, especially Cersei in aFfC

[@SingingSealRiana]

It is almost confirmed, that Tyrion is a chimera, opening the possibility for him to be both of theirs son

[@dronemachine4694]

Haha brick

[@MissMusicLover131]

"Possible, yet quite unlikely" literally any theory out there lol

[@degenerate6109]

Little finger faked his death is actually an incredibly good theory.

[@kekero540]

Or prestons “dragonbinder is a slave horn.” Theory

[@SamuraiCypher]

Some “theories” are more sound than others and are more likely/probable than their counterparts.

[@brennanneaton3062]

Usually agree, but I remember reading about Jon being a Targaryen YEARS ago, so some of these threads definitely lead somewhere

[@swinetastic]

@@degenerate6109 Then Who died in place of Littlefinger ?

[@3percentmilk]

I've always felt that each of Tywin's children represented a different aspect of Tywin himself: Cersei is his ambition and his ruthless pursuit of it, Jaime is his physical prowess and vanity, and Tyrion represents his mastery with strategy and cunning. Knowing that G.R.R.M. is big on symbolism, I would be really surprised if there was a secret lineage twist. It also explains why the Lannisters can't maintain stable power after Tywin's death; they are each a piece of a greater whole, but they refuse to work together. But I'm no SOIAF lore master, so idk 🤷‍♀️

[@willu842]

I like this analysis

[@arunikapritimishra632]

I love this explanation. It offers a lot of catharsis

[@unreal306]

Like succession

[@RJR1787]

Regardless of whether or not Tyrion is a targaryen. He grew up with Tywin as his father so of course he would have his traits

[@colindavitt33]

Because GRRM says that he is a “gardener” with his writing and not an “architect”, I think early on the story he may have intended for Tyrion to be the Mad King’s bastard (hence the hair, the eyes, “killing” his mother at birth, etc.), but as he continued to write he may have ditched that storyline for something more poetic. By the time he developed the more poetic theme of Tyrion being Tywin “writ small”, it was too late to go back and change anything about his appearance, so now it is simply a coincidence. Plus, there are too many Targaryens/possible Targaryens/Targaryen bastards for it to have any element of surprise to readers. I like the idea of Tyrion being Tywin’s true born son more than any surprise down the line that “surprise! there’s actually ANOTHER Targaryen!”

[@carterf3585]

You put it so well. Tyrion's relationship with Tywin is beautifully tragic. To cheapen it by turning Tyrion into a secret Lannister would completely undermine his character and stretch any kind of believability. This theory is interesting but it's an example of the fans taking things a bit too far. Not everyone has to be a Targaryen or someone else in disguise. Not every great person in the world has to come from one incestuous family.

[@Lectro47]

*Zeus has entered the chat*

[@ReignierAvon]

@@Lectro47 Got a genuine laugh out of that one. Well done.

[@fatant520]

@@Lectro47 😂😂😂touché

[@mlgmeistros4278]

I don't know, I kinda like the idea. Jon is still Ned his son, Tyrion is still Tywin's son, but to have him be conceived like this would be an interesting addition.

[@williamcecil7173]

@@mlgmeistros4278it would also explain his physical attributes the mix matched eyes the color of his hair it’s always been my idea that Tywin thought Tyrion was the mad kings son and used some nightshade which makes the user very sleepy but also more susceptible to bleeding which could cause birth complications for his wife and could make disabilities more likely for Tyrion I don’t think he was trying to kill his wife I believe he was trying to abort the child the reason he keeps Tyrion alive is because there was no way to do a dna test how is Tywin supposed to know he’s not the father 100%

[@SktMew]

It'd be so disappointing if Tyrion turns out to be a Tragaryen, he's one of the most brilliant minds on the series and i'd rather see him riding a dragon out of pure guts and knowledge than doing so because of ''hey look i was a Targaryen all along lolz 420 blaze it''

[@runelord37]

The Dragons dont accept brave people simply because they are brave or smart. The link goes to Old Valyria. Somehow the dragons and the Targaryens were bound cosmically by some spell or power.

[@YouMakeMyMotorRun]

@@runelord37 Furthermore, we should remember that, as they grow, dragons are rebellious toward Daenerys, which implies that this spell was weakened (which would make sense given how magic seems to work in this universe). But they have been becoming more obedient and the show even hints that she can steer them in flight, possibly hinting that the growth of magic (as it has been stated in the show) has been gradually strengthening the bond between the dragons and the last remaining Targaryens. Besides, Tyrion being a Targaryen doesn't undermine all of the cunning he has been showcasing through the whole show when interacting with other humans. Remember that cunning and knowledge only impress other humans, and not animals. You can be the biggest strategist in the world, and yet unable to break a horse or befriend a simple dog. On the other hand, I've seen really stupid people befrending all sorts of animals just out of scent, instinct, strength or something that has nothing to do with the book-knowledge and talents that Tyrion has.

[@csilla3085]

@@YouMakeMyMotorRun if memory serves me correctly, Drogon was the actually rebellious, Viserion and Rhaegal were kinda tame (we are still talking about beasts who can and would eat humans and also breathe fire). I think specifically Daenerys and her dragons bond were more like mother and children. And kids often go through a rebellious phase. Also, the old Targaryens had more control of their dragon, because they actually knew how to train them and they could pass down that knowledge. By the time Dany was born, nobody seen dragons for quite some time, so nobody had this knowledge to give her.

[@mayankbisht7691]

@@runelord37 There are other ways to control a Dragon like a Magical Horn or Spells

[@20TonChop]

I would think it funny if they established that dragons would let children climb on them and they only let Tyrion ride them is because they think he is a child....lol. I know it is stupid but still funny.

[@SkipperPlaysTW]

Interesting theory, but I believe Tyrion is FAR too much like Tywin. This dialogue between Jaime and his Aunt, Genna Lannister, best proves that Tyrion is infact the son of Tywin: "It has been hard for Kevan, living all his life in Tywin's shadow. It was hard for all my brothers. That shadow Tywin cast was long and black, and each of them had to struggle to find a little sun. Tygett tried to be his own man, but he could never match your father, and that just made him angrier as the years went by. Gerion made japes. Better to mock the game than to play and lose. But Kevan saw how things stood early on, so he made himself a place by your father's side." "And you?" Jaime asked her. "It was not a game for girls. I was my father's precious princess... and Tywin's too, until I disappointed him. My brother never learned to like the taste of disappointment." She pushed herself to her feet. "I've said what I came to say, I shan't take any more of your time. Do what Tywin would have done." "Did you love him?" Jaime heard himself ask. His aunt looked at him strangely. "I was seven when Walder Frey persuaded my lord father to give me hand to Emm. His second son, not even his heir. Father was himself a thirdborn son, and younger children crave the approval of their elders. Frey sensed that weakness in him, and Father agreed for no better reason than to please him. My betrothal was announced at a feast with half the West in attendance. Ellyn Tarbeck laughed and the Red Lion went angry from the hall. The rest sat on their tongues. Only Tywin dared speak against the match. A boy of ten. Father turned as white as mare's milk, and Walder Frey was quivering." She smiled. "How could I not love him after that? That is not to say that I approved of all he did, or much enjoyed the company of the man that he became... but every little girl needs a big brother to protect her. Tywin was big even when he was little." She gave a sigh. "Who will protect us now?" Jaime kissed her cheek. "He left a son." "Aye, he did. That is what I fear the most in truth." That was a queer remark. "Why should you fear?" "Jaime," she said, tugging on his ear, "sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak... but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years." -A Feast for Crows, Chapter 33, Jaime V The one flaw of Tywin was his inability to recognise Tyrion as his heir. As a result of his upbringing he looked for strength in his successor and he thought he saw that in Jaime, as a result of his arrogance and appearance. However, it was Tyrion who inherited the way Tywin thought, his knack for politics. Varys says this in Season 5 Episode 1: "You have your father's instinct for politics." And Genna of course says so above, she being one of the few people who "recognizes Tyrion's talent for political maneuvering." For me, Tyrion is too much lion to be a dragon.

[@MAli-sr3rf]

The thing is most people haven't read the books (I personally have and would TOTALLY recommend it), so whatever they see on the show is what they think is canon.

[@Sion67Productions]

I know it's been a few years but I'd like to reply to this. I don't know whether I believe the theory of Tyrion not being a Lannister or not but I think this defence you presented may be flawed. Genna says "he didn't speak to me for half a year" when she suggested Tyrion was his son. That could actually mean that Tywin knows he isn't his son and does not want to confront that truth so when someone says Tyrion is his son, it angers him because he knows the truth. Just a theory, but it has a whiff of credibility about it. Tyrion may not be a Lannister

[@abezevlag7337]

@@Sion67Productions I actually think it's Cercie and Jamie who aren't his kids, her telling him the truth might of been what made him pissed for half a year.

[@dylanmorgan2752]

This is just where conspiracies go too far. The theorists get bored and have traced every possible plausible lead so they just turn their gaze to something that never asked for inspection. The glowing flaw in the whole theory that sank the whole thing for me before I even watched the video, and never will hit play. Why would Tywin claim to have witnessed his own wife Joanna die in Childbirth and hate Tyrion forever if he had no stake in it. There were many witnesses who saw Tyrion born to Joanna who was in a loving relationship with Tywin all her life.

[@tardigrade9343]

@@dylanmorgan2752 Maybe you should watch the video because you might not have understood the theory. Of course Joanna gave birth to Tyrion, that's not the lie/conspiracy. In the books, it is said inbetween the lines that the mad king Aerys forced himself upon Joanna. He viewed the wife of his hand his property, and likely wanted to "mark his territory". We don't know for sure when and how often it happened, or if it's just a rumour. So the question is: could Tyrion or Jaime/Cersei (or all of them) be the results of those rapes? That's the question, and it's an interesting and not far-fetched one. Every word in a novel has weight and meaning. GRRM didn't put those clues without intention. Maybe it's build up for a big dramatic reveal that fits the narrative perfectly, or it's just a deliberate red herring.

[@goranpavlovic4289]

Jaime kissed her cheek. "He left a son." "Aye, he did. That is what I fear the most, in truth." That was a queer remark. "Why should you fear?" "Jaime," she said, tugging on his ear, "sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . . but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year Genna Lanister

[@inferno0020]

I have a different view on Tyrion: the true reason why Tywin hates Tyrion is that Tyrion is actually the only Lannister that can match his intelligence and capacity.

[@Serenade2461]

THANK YOU!!!! Cersei and Jaime are Targaryens and so are their children. The dragons never left the throne

[@timy.9512]

Tyrion is Tywin's true son; the same could be said of Joffrey for Robert, as Joffrey had all of Robert's bad traits: his love of whores, his slothfulness, his casual disregard for anything or anyone he didn't like. Of course, that wanton cruelty he had was all Cersei's.

[@TheB1r2i3a4n5]

@@Serenade2461 Although this is very old, it's really annoying that you want to force the naive idea that the Lannister twins are Targaryen just because of the incest, when on the other hand, Tyrion has dreams and above all a fascination with dragons (the guy cried all night for those creatures, please...), when the timelines match, when his appearance and deformities link him a lot to the Targaryens, and especially when that would make all the sense in the world to Tywin's irrational contempt towards Tyrion, since he is not only not his son, but the spawn of the rape of his wife by his ex-best friend, who on top of that took the life of his beloved Joanna. And I don't know why you think that his blood would lose the essence of the relationship between Tyrion and Tywin when it would give more strength, meaning, and tragedy, because as much as the Mad King might have fathered Tyrion, Tywin Lannister was his father (a terrible father, but a father).

[@avkingoking]

One thing I would like about this theory is that it would make the friendship between Steffon Baratheon, Tywin, and Aerys even more tragic. Steffon's son killed Aerys's son, Tywin's son killed Aerys, Tywin's daughter killed Steffon's son and a lot of his grandchildren, and this would mean Aerys's son killed Tywin.

[@HOTD108_]

That's not very thematically relevant though. Tyrion being Tywin's biological son is crucial to the themes and subtext of the entire series. To remove that element undermines the most significant relationship of two of the best characters in the books and show.

[@UnicornFilms2001]

I feel like, had Tywin been Targaryen in blood, he wouldn't have been allowed to live. Tywin would have killed him or disowned him, because no way he lets a bastard dwarf grow up with his name when he is so focused on that--his name. However, I do feel as though perhaps Jaime and Cersei COULD be Aerys'. He definitely did something to her on her wedding night, and that would have been around the time she conceived the twins. The twins show a tendency for incest, something really only the Targs did, and Cersei seems a bit crazy, though that could just be the fact that she's a hotheaded woman not used to hearing the word no. It would certainly fit Tywin's story better. These two children, though not his and he knew it, were perfect for bettering his house. They have golden Lannister hair and stunning looks. Marrying Cersei to Rhaegar was the original plan, and it was considered seriously until Elia was chosen. Cersei was (and is) a stunning woman. And Jaime is (or was) the best swordsman in all of Westeros. For Tywin, it truly was a blessing. He could overlook their real father, use the children and be happy with his wife. Then he fathers a child of his own and kills the only woman he's ever loved. However, HIS child is disfigured. HIS child does not have stunning Lannister-gold hair or incomparable handsomeness. So Tywin grows bitter and begins to despise his imperfect child, hating Aerys for fathering better children than him. Hating that he couldn't have a beautiful baby too. Hating that it was his son and not Aerys' that killed his wife. Grief-filled, he decides it must be the child's fault and torments him, filling his mind with madness and thoughts of "Tyrion is Aerys' son not the twins" and "Tyrion killed her".

[@ahmad3652]

Unicorn Films Jaimie the best swords man in westeros is debatable in a Dog fight he has his equals like Barristan and the hound

[@UnicornFilms2001]

***** but he's known as the best swordsman in Westeros.

[@Mr33500]

Unicorn Films Tywin's wedding was in 263 and Jaime and Cersei were born in 266. Aerys wasn't in close proximity to Joanna when the twins was conceived. Tywin wouldn't raise Jaime,Tyrion or Cersei if they hadn't been his.

[@maddiee7366]

Unicorn Films defintely my thoughts too, Jaime and Cersei being Aerys Targaryen's (rather Tywin knew or just suspected). Cersei being married to Rhaegar Targaryen would have been the best of both world's for Tywin (at least in theory, unless he lost his head, but that arrangement was probably prior Aerys going too crazy), he could have installed his "daughter" as queen to be, and been Hand of the King to Aery's.

[@maddiee7366]

Mr33500 This might be different as in the books I believe the twins and Tyrion were 8 years apart? In the series Cersei (during the Battle of Blackwater) mentions to Sansa she was 4 when her mother died.

[@salamut2202]

I hope he isn't. I feel it cheapens the relationship between Tyrion and Tywin. On the "you're no son of mine" thing, I think that's more an insult when he's disappointed. He says the same thing to Jamie afterall. As for the hair colour, didn't Tommen also have very pale blonde hair?

[@jenniferzhu8573]

+salamut2202 No... Tommen has golden hair... where does it say that Tommen has light hair?

[@salamut2202]

Jennifer Zhu A Game of Thrones, Chapter 5, Jon I, he's described as plump with white, blonde hair.

[@herrschmidt412]

+salamut2202 Proof that Tommen is actually a Targaryen. Think about it, wasn't Cersei supposed to marry Rhaegar? It's not like she's above adultery, maybe she had sex with him anyway. I don't know how they conceived a child years after Rhaegar was dead, but pale hair=Targaryen. The fan theories told me so.

[@jenniferzhu8573]

In the books, Tommen has golden hair. It's literally there.

[@salamut2202]

Jennifer Zhu I quoted you the damn chapter that tells you he has white hair.

[@GuruPrasanna]

I feel like George initially toyed with the idea of Tyrion eventually coming to ride a dragon. In Book 1, you can see loads of foreshadowing for Tyrion + dragons. I guess after AGOT he kind of felt it wouldn't fit with the overall themes and Tyrion's character arc, and ended up dropping the idea.

[@romanphoenix999]

I like that you give valid points for both side of the arguement.

[@cam-the-bassist]

I would be so annoyed if Tyrion was Targaryan, would just seem cheap to have a second secret Targaryan

[@bakersmileyface]

Perhaps in the books i'd accept it, but certainly not in the show. In the books it would completely change the dynamic of how everything pans out. In the show it would just be a cheap cliche

[@tiaaaron3278]

@@bakersmileyface Yup because you're a pathetic fanboy who would swallow any shit Martin writes but get mad if showrunners do the waft same thing.

[@bakersmileyface]

Tia Aaron First of all; calm down. Calling me a pathetic fanboy and getting all worked up over something as small as this isn't really worth it. Second: No. The reason I say it would work in the books is for 2 reasons. 1 - Because the books follow a great many characters in contrast to the few the show follows. This means there are many plots that would get impacted by Tyrion being a Targaryen making it much more entertaining than the TV show. It also means Tyrion will recieve more space to get fleshed out as a Targaryen. In the show, they would've had to show some signs in one of the earlier seasons first. 2 (This is my main reason) - Because the books are much further behind the TV show. At the moment the TV show is wrapping itself up and won't have enough time to flesh out the impact of Tyrion being a Targaryen. As it is now, it will just throw the fact that Tyrion is a Targaryen in our faces and everyone would just have to accept that. Whereas in the books, we're only just at the part where Jon Snow dies, it has plenty of time to develop the idea that Tyrion is a Targaryen and it will show us that he is truly a Targaryen instead of just telling us out of nowhere. So those are the reasons of why I said what I said.

[@bart0642]

@Dio Falkner nah

[@Zeetana1]

Why? GRRM is not above clichés, he is also not above throwing in another secret Targaryen. Just think about it, how many bastards are already in this universe? MANY! How many kings had affairs and spread children everywhere in any direction? lol. They are everywhere already. I honestly wouldn't be bothered by another secret Targaryen because it is already so rampant in this universe GRRM created.

[@The_Malcontented]

There's actually a third person who has been described as having mismatched eyes other than Tyrion and Shiera Seastar: Alyssa Targaryen, daughter of King Jaehaerys I and Good Queen Alysanne, and mother of King Viserys I (and therefore: ancestor of the Mad King and all of his descendants.) So that makes the theory even stronger.

[@aurelia8028]

"good queen" alysanna was a slut. got pregnant at 16 and then had 13 children. jesus christ...

[@SherlockHolmesb-kp4ru]

As if only targaryens can have mismatched eyes .

[@outis7080]

I theorise Tyrion's heterochromia is a red herring. People often compare them Shiera Seastar. But there's one thing people miss, the colour. One of her irises is deep green and has often been compared to emeralds. The eyes of Jaime and Cersei were repeatedly described using the same descriptions; dark greeen, akin to emeralds. Tywin in contrast is said to have pale green eyes. This especially notable since Shiera is half Lyseni, out of all the recent Targaryens, her blood is closest to that of Old Valyria. Both Cersei and Shiera also known for wearing Emeralds to complement their eyes. Then there's their hair colours. Tyrion having "hair so blond it seemed white" is often cited as evidence of Tyrion being the progeny of a Targaryen, but in the same chapter, Tommen is described having the same hair colour: His half sisters escorted the royal princes. Arya was paired with plump young Tommen, whose white-blond hair was longer than hers. -Jon I, AGOT The twins on the other hand are said to possess hair of "beaten gold." The noteworthy thing is such a description was only used to describe people's hair 6 times. Thrice for Jaime and Cersei There came Ser Jaime Lannister with hair as bright as beaten gold, and there Sandor Clegane with his terrible burned face. -Eddard I, AGOT His hair curled, as Jaime's did, but her brother's hair was beaten gold, like hers, where this man's was black and oily. -Cersei I, AFFC What Tywin Lannister made of this is not recorded, but in 266 AC, at Casterly Rock, Lady Joanna gave birth to a pair of twins, a girl and a boy, "healthy and beautiful, with hair like beaten gold." -The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II, TWOIAF and thrice for Targaryens. In Westeros, few but the blood of the dragon had eyes that colour, or hair that shone like beaten gold and strands of silver woven all together. -The Sworn Sword Egg had the purple eyes of old Valyria, and hair that shone like beaten gold and strands of silver woven together. -The Mystery Knight The prince had washed the black dye from his hair as well, so it flowed down to his collar in a cascade of silver and gold that glimmered like beaten metal in the torchlight. Egg would have hair like that if he ever let it grow, Dunk realized. -The Mystery Knight

[@NakasDougen]

I think it is more plausible for Cersei and Jaime to be Aerys's children. "The Targaryens are like a coin, one side madness, one side greatness". Just like the twins, Cersei is crazy, Jaime is great. It adds the great plot twist of Jaime killing his own father thinking he obeyed his father doing so, as well as the irony that Tyrion, the child Tywin hated, was his only true son. Another hint is Joanna saying that only Tyrion is a true son of Tywin

[@NakasDougen]

Jason Dougenis It also explains the attraction between brother and sister which is only common in Targaryens

[@witea100]

Jason Dougenis Are Targaryiens actually attracted to brother and sister? I thought they mainly did that to keep the bloodlines pure

[@NakasDougen]

Well I am not sure, but incest is just another thing linking the Targaryens and the Lannister twins.

[@himani8927]

Well I wouldn't say incest is only common in Targs. Theon was attracted to his sister. There are many incidences of cousins being married (Ned Stark's parents were cousins, for example).

[@Mr33500]

Jason Dougenis Both of the theories regarding Tywin's childrens parentage are quite far fetched. Joanna died giving birth to Tyrion so i think you mean Genna and she meant that figuratively.

[@Edithae]

I prefer the idea of Cersei and Jaime being the Mad Kings children, and Tyrion being the only true born son of Tywin Lannister. Thats just deliciouslyy ironic. :D Doesn't Cersei burn down a keep with Wild Fire, and laugh or something as she watches? And Tyrion's last words to Tywin (in the show at least) were "I was always your son (don't recall if its the same in the book).

[@acrefray]

Though the looks of Jamie/Cersei are distinctly Lannister, I also prefer this theory. After all, a largely overlooked pair of words in AFFC (which is quoted in this video) is where Genna says to Jamie "Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you."

[@ZenZill]

acrefray Cersei and Jaime being the Man Kings children, and their incestual offspring, would really make the Lannisters name really nothing to claim the crown. Tyrion would be sole heir to Casterly Rock, no? Stannis will be the most ticked off by this revelation- that will probably occur right as he's taking his 'rightful crown'. Jaime killed his own father...it goes on and on.

[@StudentofLife2718281]

I also prefer it. I would also like to add: Jaime's Aunt claims that men are blind and that Tyrion is Tywin's true son. It would explain why Tywin would distance himself from Tyrion.

[@JoeBurks_1]

acrefray It isn't overlooked, it's just that it is pretty obvious that Genna is talking about behavior, not genetics. Genna is referring to her question of "who will protect us now?" When speaking of Jaime in the same discussion she says that he has some of Gerion, Tyg and Kevan in him. Did they all bed Joanna and Jaime is the spawn of some sort of triple-fertilized ovum? How would that even factor into Targaryen lineage? Genna is talking about something larger. Like Tywin, Tyrion is calculating and pragmatic. They both think their plays through, make decisions smartly and are willing to violate oaths and rules for the right reason.

[@muteussouza]

yeah,chronologically is what make sense,since tyrion os The newest of the sons,and there's still Jaime and cersei look and behavior,much more like targaryen than lannister,and being born after Joanna's supposedly afair with the young mad king,also explains the brutal disgust of Tywin towards his only murderer dwarf son,that has much more of his late dad in him than the other two.

[@B20C0]

isn't Tyrion the youngest child of Tywin? So wedding night is definitely out.

[@nicolaszunker4938]

thats the most sensible argument ive seen anywhere

[@ayushsinha7300]

Precisely why I thought this to be bullshit. But he did say that kings could do whatever they want. Also, I think that Tyrion's brain reflects Tywin's intellect. Jaime has his father's fighting skills, Tyrion inherited strategy, Cersei inherited nothing.

[@nicolaszunker4938]

cersei got his cruelty

[@B20C0]

Ayush Sinha I don't think so... all of them have a lot of stategical thinking, most so Tyrion and Cersei. Cersei and Jaime are also ruthless, especially Cersei. I think Cersei is the closest to Tywin to be honest. Jaime wants to be an honorable man, Tywin didn't give a shit about that. Tyrion tries to be a decent person Ceresei is the once who inherited the brutal ruthlessness needed to defeat her enemies by any means.

[@ayushsinha7300]

B20C0 Cersei did inherit ruthlessness, but no intellect. She doesn't consider the consequences of her actions, Tywin however considered and calculated his every move. Jaime himself even thinks that Cersei thinks that she is Tywin with tits, but she is very wrong in that. Tyrion was a superb hand of the king, while Cersei as queen has only been a disaster to the kingdom. While Tywin wanted Lannisters and Tyrells to unite for the peace of the realm and to secure Tommen's throne, Cersei, out of pure bitchiness,got the Tyrells killed. This had MANY consequences: 1. Her only surviving child (The only future House Lannisters had) killed himself. 2. Her own brother was super angry with her. 3. The only major house who was allied with House Lannister is now against them. 4. Wildfire burns green, the people would obviously know that it was sabotage, and since so many Tyrells died, while Cersei suspiciously did not attend her trial, let's see how the crowd feels about that. She always hated Tyrion for being an imp, and the same Imp is bringing a massive army to King's Landing, and she cannot even use Wildfire against that army, because Tyrion would anticipate that tactic (He used it against Stannis).

[@jpheitman]

1:21 "According to Ser Barristan... Aerys wanted Joanna for years ...and later took 'liberties.' ...What this shows is that Aerys lusted for Tyrion's mother." Also, from the books, Rhaella - Aerys' Queen - dismissed Joanna Lannister from her service after objecting to Aerys "turning her handmaids into his whores." Chekhov's gun, man. Why the hell would George waste so much time talking about Aerys' lusting for Joanna if it wasn't important in some way? 2:00 "But, just quickly, it has been questioned whether Joanna was even at King's Landing with Aerys at the time of Tyrion's conception." Then the questioners have never read "The World of Ice and Fire." In this supplemental work by GRRM, The Bearded One himself, it is stated that after the birth of Jaime and Cersei, Aerys extended an invitation to Joanna to come to King's Landing and present her children once they were old enough to travel. This finally happened when the twins were six, the year before Tyrion's birth (We don't know months, sadly :( ). At the tourney held that day, Aerys insulted Joanna, asking her if nursing her children had caused her breasts to become saggy. Tywin was obviously infuriated, but he did not attempt to resign the handship until *the next morning.* I don't know about you, but that insult does not seem like enough for Tywin to actually resign; even if it was, he would have resigned that day. It seems to me likely that some other dishonor occurred that night, something so egregious that Tywin would try to give up the handship. 4:04 "The real question is why Tywin would allow Tyrion to live as a Lannister at all." If Tywin knew Tyrion was the Mad King's son, he had two pairs of options: He can kill Tyrion, or let Tyrion live; and he can tell everybody, or not tell anyone. *1)* If he kills Tyrion and tells everyone Tyrion is Aerys' son, he gravely insults the Mad King and his bloodline, who would come down on the Westerlands with fire and blood. Remember that Aerys only had one child (Rhaegar) and a whole bunch of stillbirths and miscarriages at the time, so every child of his is precious. *2)* If Tywin kills Tyrion and doesn't disclose his parentage, Tywin is named Kinslayer, accursed in the eyes of Gods and men. Not nice for a man trying desperately to rebuild his family name. *3)* If Tywin does not kill Tyrion and does disclose his parentage, he dishonors his family by revealing that he let his wife be raped and murdered by Aerys - and that's assuming that anyone would believe him. Granted, a hideously malformed child with silver-gold hair is awfully similar to the description of most of Aerys' stillborn children, but a lot of people would just think he was making it up. Either way, Tywin loses face. *4)* If Tywin does not kill Tyrion and does not disclose his parentage, everything continues as normal. Tywin has a ward to raise (who is still Joanna's child, and his own blood), the Lannister name does not suffer another blow to its prestige, and Tywin can quietly plot to get back at Aerys for that horrendous wrong he dealt. *THAT* is Tywin logic right there, and the only course that a man as Machiavellian as Tywin would take. 5:03 "The likely explanation is that Tyrion just liked dragons because... dragons are cool?" NO! No, no, no, no no no! You do NOT get to associate modern values in our world with those in the World of Ice and Fire! Just because WE view dragons as awesome *does not mean* that anyone in GRRM's universe feels the same way. In fact, go look at *every single book* on that universe that GRRM has published - from the main series, to the Dunk and Egg novellas, to the World of Ice and Fire, *every single character* who is obsessed with dragons is a Valyrian, either from old Valyria before the Doom, or a Targaryen (trueborn or bastard). The line "Tyrion had a morbid obsession with dragons" is a FUCKING NEON SIGN that he is a Targaryen - we just don't realize it yet, because it's early in the very first book. On top of that, Tyrion reflects in the fifth book that he begged for a dragon for a nameday gift; when told the dragons were extinct, "he thought that so monstrously unfair that he cried himself to sleep that night." Come on, guys. Who, other than a Targaryen, would do that? 6:00 It's been suggested that Tyrion's dwarfism might be the result of Targaryen genetic weirdness." Pretty close, actually... It's not the Targaryens in general, it's Aerys in particular. As I noted earlier in this post (read: Essay :P ) Aerys had a *lot* of miscarried and stillborn children - six or seven in total, if I'm not mistaken. A few of those were said to be hideously malformed. If Aerys were to father a bastard on Joanna, it'd probably be a grotesque child - similar to how Tyrion is described in the books. 7:10 "One of the main reasons why the theory ultimately is doubtful is that, while Tyrion being a Targaryen bastard does make his awful relationship with Tywin easier to understand, it makes it something less." Quite to the contrary: It makes it something more, especially from Tywin's perspective. Tywin, here, has three children under his care: Cersei and Jaime, his twins, and Tyrion, the Mad King's bastard. Of these, Cersei has looks, but she is utterly incompetent at governance. She cannot lead, she cannot rule, and she is very spoiled and overly ambitious. Cruel and tactless, she threatens to undo all Tywin has accomplished. Jaime is also a poor administrator, but at least he knows it. Not particularly bright, but good with a sword, Jaime seems a competent leader that can at least carry the Lannister name until the next truly great lion comes along. And then there's Tyrion. Unquestionably clever, as cunning as the spider, and with a good head for rule, Tyrion is *by far* the most like Tywin out of all his children, despite the fact that he's the only one who *isn't* Tywin's child. Tywin, then, is left in an awful quandary: The child who isn't his, the child this mad king forced on him, that Aerys killed his wife with, is also the best hope for the Lannister family name. Tywin is forced to choose between the legacy he has spent his life building, and the emotions that broil in him every time he sees the walking manifestation of his own shame and weakness. In the end, he caves to his emotions, his hatred for Aerys having consumed him, and he chooses not to treat Tyrion as his son. This leads to a series of events which bring the Lannister name down - and Tywin with it. Plus, Tyrion is in *MEEREEN!* What the hell is the Halfman doing halfway around the world from Westeros, *in the same place as Dany,* (they meet in season 5 of the show, by the way) if not to join forces with Daenerys and be one of the three heads of the dragon? Chekhov's gun once again - there's no reason to write him going that far to seek his revenge unless Daenerys and Co. are important to Tyrion in particular. George could have easily written Tyrion going with Aegon and Jon Connington, but he chooses the longer route to Meereen and dragons. For these reasons, it seems possible, and *very* likely, that Tyrion is a Targaryen.

[@jpheitman]

Alt Shift X Y'all better be readin' this - it took me, like, an hour to find all this stuff and report it accurately with this shit computer.

[@AltShiftX]

jpheitman You make some good points. Sadly this video was released the day before the World of Ice and Fire came out. I hope to revisit the Tyrion Targ and the Cersei and Jaime Targ theories at some point using the new info.

[@sallyW.]

You, sir, deserve an award.

[@Stoic_Zoomer]

jpheitman wow impressive

[@LegendaryTerrorist32]

jpheitman If Tywin and Joanna knew that Aerys got her pregnant why wouldn't Joanna take moon tea? No Tyrion being the Mad King's bastard does not add something to the relationship, it completely destroys(IMO) the best father son relationship in the series. Now if Jaime and Cersei were children of the Mad King(which they are not) then it would add something to the relationship since the children that Tywin loves aren't even his and the child that he hates actually is his only child. If Tywin thought that there was even a 1% chance of Tyrion not being his son, then he would have killed him and just came up with some excuse about how he got sick and died. There is no way that Tywin would raise the Mad Kings son because it was Joannas and he felt obligated to. This is Tywin Lannister we are talking about, he is one of the smartest and most cunning men in Westeros would will do anything for the lineage of House Lannister.

[@TimporaChin]

please just make a 16 hour movie for me to watch

[@kolymogaming]

148 hours*

[@horizon_universe9349]

@@kolymogaming * all the hours

[@20TonChop]

Playlist is thicc now, come back!!!

[@MsSonnencreme]

Naaah, I like the idea that Tyrion is Tywin's son and only heir after all.

[@shannond7437]

Yup

[@trentb3148]

Tyrion does have one thing in common with the two other Targaryens (assuming R+L=J is correct), which is that all of their mothers died giving birth to them. Not proof at all that Tyrion is a Targaryen, but certainly a connection.

[@alexanderscott1087]

Tre B Never considered that. Good point.

[@sdas4084]

Nice dude

[@brainwasher9876]

Tre B wait, we know Snow's mum?

[@alexanderscott1087]

Andrew Wang If R + L = J is true, then yes.

[@himani8927]

The video mentions this at 6:26

[@EmpyreanVampires]

Here's a thought... What if Tyrion is a Chimera? Originally fraternal twins, Lannister and Targaryen (due to the mad king and Tywin bedding his mother close enough together to conceive twice). He and his twin merged in the womb (not unheard of) and he is a child of both- A Lion and a Dragon.

[@GirlAcrossTheWorld]

I like this theory, his two toned hair and eyes and the fact that his mother is definitely prone to releasing two eggs at once are biological indicators of chimerism. It would also explain why Tywin is so back and forth about tyrion, he may be confused as to whether tyrion is his, knowing Joanna was raped, but also recognizing himself in tyrion. He may waffle between believing tyrion is his or not, because he both is and he isn't.

[@ohsnap401]

!

[@specialk5257]

Somebody is watching Orphan Black....

[@meme-bu8qu]

It makes so much sense.

[@gematria79]

It's obvious that the macho Tywin would despise hving a monstrous dwarf as a son. There should be no doubt that if Tywin could have claimed the mad King had raped his wife producing this dwarf Targ bastard he would have. Both the mad King & Joanna are dead & he'd never have had to give Tyrion his name. So it's likely many knew the mad King hadn't seen Joanna at anytime near the time necessary to conceive Tyrion. In reality, Many men abandon their deformed children. Tywin couldn't cuz he wouldn't want that to be part of his natl reputation(easier to hide Tyrion at Casterly Rock his entire life. But Tyrion wouldn't stay hidden).

[@dalielsalvador6548]

tyrion pets the dragons in the basement and they let him, only targaryans can do that

[@Jerererere]

But so did john

[@swtd7384]

Jeremiah McGowan Jon is a Targaryen

[@Haphazard-Soliloquy]

How do you not know Jon is a Targaryen?

[@bentsyvertsen6816]

Are you dumb?

[@Cov1ngtonsGhOst]

Dragons do not innately trust Targaryens. Balerion ate Maegors sister. Its just season 6 writing that allowed Tyrion to survive that

[@CadaverJunky8]

This is probably the worst popular theory out there. Not only did A World of Ice and Fire dismiss this theory out the door, but ironically, Tyrion is just way too much like Tywin. In fact, he's considered by many people to be more like Tywin than the other two. If Aerys DID ever impregnate Joanna (which I highly doubt and would never have flown under Tywin's radar), it would have been with Cersei and Jaime.

[@xXxlaniparisxXx]

Exactly. The only way for this theory to work would mean that Cersei and Jamie were born before Tywin and Johanna wed (which they weren't) or if Tywin would ever allow the Mad King near his wife alone again years after the possible incident at the wedding.

[@smallpseudonym2844]

+CadaverJunky8 Quite the opposite. A World of Ice and Fire put paid to the objection that Jaime and Cersei should be the Mad King's children instead of Tyrion: The conception of Jaime and Cersei lines up with when Joanna had already been dismissed from Rhaella's service. When she was in Casterly Rock. (Born 3 years after marriage.) Aerys was nowhere near her. Tyrion on the other hand was born 8-9 months after Joanna returned to King's Landing for the 10-year anniversary of Aerys' coronation. (And 8-9 months after Tywin tried to resign the Handship out of protest over something that we're not privy to.) And Tyrion being like Tywin is not some anachronistic comment on genetics, of which the denizens of Westeros have little knowledge. It's a comment on his behaviour. He was the one child who tried best to absorb the lessons Tywin taught, precisely because he was trying to earn Tywin's approval, which in turn was because Tywin mistrusted him. Much like another situation: Of all of Ned's "children", Jon is most like him. Yet we know that Jon is the one child who is not actually his. Even more importantly, people keep using this as an argument that Tyrion was more "Lannisterish" than Jaime. Not so. Jaime is more like his Uncles, *who* *are* *also* *Lannisters*. He's just as "Lannisterish" as Tyrion. People keep using that quote from Genna poorly.

[@alecbernal3824]

+CadaverJunky8 Not that I disagree with you, but couldn't Tyrion's similarities to Tywin simply be learned? All the parallels are behavioral, not biological, and could easily be explained by Tyrion simply trying to emulate his believed father in an effort to gain acceptance.

[@MissSimone02]

Alec Bernal so glad you see it the same way. and now after 06.02 when Tyrion freed the dragons I have a hard time believing he's not a Targ. people complain about the fandom seeing Targs everywhere but to my knowledge it's just Jon and Tyrion and there's more than enough evidence to say they are and hell, Jon is cannon according to HBO. Sooooo...there's that.

[@outis7080]

@@smallpseudonym2844 >A World of Ice and Fire put paid to the objection that Jaime and Cersei should be the Mad King's children instead of Tyrion: >The conception of Jaime and Cersei lines up with when Joanna had already been dismissed from Rhaella's service. When she was in Casterly Rock. (Born 3 years after marriage.) Aerys was nowhere near her. Not exactly. According to TWOIAF, after being dismissed by Rhaella, Joanna SELDOM visited King's Landing. Seldom is not never. Not long thereafter, Queen Rhaella dismissed Joanna Lannister from her service. No reason for this was ever given, but Lady Joanna departed at once for Casterly Rock and seldom visited King's Landing thereafter. -The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II We also know there were rumours of Joanna being Aerys' paramour. The scurrilous rumor that Joanna Lannister gave up her maidenhead to Prince Aerys the night of his father's coronation and enjoyed a brief reign as his paramour after he ascended the Iron Throne can safely be discounted. As Pycelle insists in his letters, Tywin Lannister would scarce have taken his cousin to wife if that had been true, "for he was ever a proud man and not one accustomed to feasting upon another man's leavings." -The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II As shown with the incident with Shae, Pycelle is utterly wrong. All it would have taken is one encounter with for the twins to be conceived.

[@RapidCityJM]

I always thought another piece of evidence for the theory was Moqorro and his vision. Tyrion asks him what he sees and the priest says "Dragons. Old and young. True and false. Bright and dark. And you at the center of it all snarling back." Or something to that effect. It also fits with the other Targs. A red dragon could be bright, a black dragon dark or Jon's hair is dark, Dany's light, Tyrion would fit somewhere in the middle of that. Aemon is old, Dany is young. Jon is a true Targ son of Rhaegar, and Aegon is pretending to be a Targ but is the son a Blackfyre woman.

[@AltShiftX]

Justin Madsen Yeah I really should have included that quote in the video.

[@Zombi49pl]

Alt Shift X Will you Upload more ASOIAF Vids ?

[@AltShiftX]

***** I will, yeah. Probably HS=HR next.

[@smallpseudonym2844]

***** Incorrect. He's described as snarling in the midst of them; clearly drawing the picture of him as a dragon as well.

[@xebioz7919]

***** In the midst usually means more along the lines of "among" rather than in the middle.

[@TheWhatsdoinglad]

" Promise me Tywin situation " HAHAHAHAHA That gave me a really good laugh!

[@RavenStillBeguiling]

Man, I loathe this theory. There's no real evidence to this. Tommen has white blonde hair too so it's just a constant grasping of straws. It also completely undermines Tyrion's struggles with his father and with himself. Tyrion will play a part in the final battle, no doubt about it, but there will only be one true secret Targaryen and that's Jon.

[@AltShiftX]

RavenStillBeguiling Early on, Tommen is described as having white-blonde hair, but later on it's described as golden. It's been suggested that it's just an age thing - young kids having lighter hair.

[@CryloBen]

It would eb the same relationship; Tywin hating Tyrion for things Tyrion can't control. Being a dwarf, accidentally causing Joanna's death, and being Aerys's child and not his. A variation of this same theory I heard was of Cersei and Jaime being Aerys's kids meaning again, Tywin hates Tyrion because he's a dwarf, caused Joanna's death and is his only true born child/son.

[@smallpseudonym2844]

Undermines it how? Tyrion believes that he is Tywin's son. That's all he needs to struggle and have the identity issues that he has. Any "undermining" of this relationship is purely in your mind; because it's obviously not in his. There's lots of evidence. Saying there's not will not make it go away. As for secret Targaryens, there are a good deal more of them. A significant number more. There will however only be one true secret Targaryen Heir.

[@Guard655]

Jon isn't targaryen. Brandon + Ashara = Jon

[@tompower6677]

***** indeed a good friend of mine used to have very blond hair, and now she had fully brown hair.

[@debb1137]

For someone who's not a Targaryan, he sure did have a way with calming the dragons, though.

[@willmosse3684]

Yeah, but that was only in the show, and by Season 6 the show runners were getting pretty lax, including things for instant cool impact without thinking too much about the big picture. For some reason, tv and film makers seem to do this a lot. Sacrifice the long term big picture for instant gratification. Happens in the second and third Lord of the Rings movies quite a bit too.

[@billcipher147]

@@willmosse3684 And in Harry Potter. They cut out so much important stuff its not even funny anymore.

[@willmosse3684]

Bill Cipher - I am not familiar with the Potter material, but I believe it...

[@michonnewalker4246]

The show he not a Targaryen

[@mrchigz8]

I think that saying that Tyrion is and reminds Tywin of himself has nothing to do with Bloodlines my friends. I think it's GRRM's hint that nurture is more powerful than nature. You don't become smart and cunning by having blood of a great general. It's due to your upbringing .. So Tyrion can definitely be Targ whilst being Tywin's true son

[@joshuajavier5484]

If you're subscribing to the whole nature vs nurture idea that wouldn't explain how Jaemie and Cersei ended up the way they are.

[@mrchigz8]

yeah lack of parenting led to their fucked up minds and also Tywin being an absolute arrogant cunt of a dad

[@AntiSkill42]

Or Jaima and Cersei are targaryans...

[@MissSimone02]

Joshua Javier no they just like to fuck each other like weirdos. no explanation for that 😂

[@jasonhaven7170]

Like Jon Snow and Ned Stark.

[@johncio91]

I say Tyrion is Tywins son. And that Cersie and Jamie are the children fathered by the mad king if he did do that. Every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin. Cersie is crazy and Jamie is not.

[@yelyabs]

That would make the Cersie and Jamie situation less of a problem... People don't seem to care when Targaryans keep it within the family, people would probably stop caring.

[@johncio91]

It does make scence as to why the Cersie and Jamie situation is happening. In season 1 or 2 Cersie argues your point. I do have to say maybe there parentage is being kept a secret from them. BOOK SPOILER: this also may happen in the show very soon. Jamie is looking over Tywins dead body. And in the back of the room notices a blond female. And Jamie goes over and talks to her. The most important thing from the talk is she says men dream of what they can not have. And mentioned how Tywin dreamt about a son as a knight and a daughter as queen. Jamie says he had both. And she does something like shake her head in disapproval. And then disappears like a ghost.

[@RavenStillBeguiling]

LOL @ Cersei is crazy but Jaime is not

[@Talt9999]

The World of Ice and Fire book disproves this theory :/

[@johncio91]

Can you say how i have not read that book yet.

[@ClayburnGriffin]

No. Cersei and Jaime are the Mad King's. The timing is better and it explains their proclivity for incest. It also adds a poetic note to Tywin's hatred of Tyrion, since he knows he's his only true son.

[@TheCallumTR]

Clayburn Griffin just fucking stop

[@ArcanicFire]

+Clayburn Griffin Thus making Joffrey not necessarily a rightful heir, but definitely having legitimate claim to the Iron throne rather than being illegitimate... Oh. Fuck.

[@Alegost1]

you sound like the targs where the only ones who married their own blood... tywin himself married a cousin and i believe that other houses did as well

[@smokinguns1]

There is a bit of difference between sisters either fucking. Than cousin fucking, still weird an gross. But dam at least there is some more varied genetic material lol.

[@squorm6043]

@@ArcanicFire well, hes still a bastard, so he doesnt have a claim to the throne

[@bexzilla6388]

The fact that tywin likely at least suspected that tyrion was aerys' bastard, but that he knew for sure that tyrion was also a lannister due to his mother, likely gave him a very confused outlook. He must preserve house lannister at all costs, and tyrion is a lannister as tywin points out often when doing anything "good" for tyrion, but he's also not his son. And tyrion is just like tywin, who raised him, so tyrion really is the culmination of everything tywin hates about himself and others.

[@drumbearable]

Do you think that Tyrion, Jon, and Daenarys are the three headed dragon of Azor Ahai, and therefore will ride the 3 dragons in the inevitable battle against the others? Alt Shift X

[@AltShiftX]

drumbearable Doesn't seem likely to me. Things usually aren't so straightforward in ASOIAF.

[@Drakestalker]

Alt Shift X How about this... and bear with me here. The Others and the First Men were once allies. R'hllor is the god of men, and Bloodraven is the god of the Others. One is not good and the other evil, they're just two sides of the same coin. They coexist. However, because of the fire god religion's propaganda, the Others got branded as evil, and that's why they turn on humanity. So, basically... R'hllor: He wants to be the one true god, and for that reason Bloodraven and the Others must perish. Dany: We can already see her losing her gentle and innocent side, and becoming increasingly ruthless. It almost sets her up the be a villain. She becomes becomes the fire god's greatest asset, Azor Ahai, the the genocidal villain who wants to wipe the Others out. She represents fire. Bloodraven: He loses control of the Others, he doesn't want them to wipe out humanity, because he realizes humanity is not the enemy. R'hllor and people like Mel are. He needs a human ambassador. Bran: He becomes the human ambassador that Bloodraven needs in order to stop both men and the Others from going to war with each other. Bran becomes The Last Hero, "the last hope", as the Reeds call him. He represents ice. Jon: He is THE watcher on the wall. He is caught between a rock and a hard place, between Dany and Bran, between fire and ice. He is both a Stark and Targ, he is The Prince That Was Promised. He is the one that brings peace and balance. He is The Song of Ice and Fire. Now, here's how this plays out: The Others destroy most of Westeros, by the time Dany gets to Westeros it's all in ruins (the vision with the ravaged Iron Throne room), there's no throne to sit on anymore, hence she decides to destroy the Others. Meanwhile Bran is trying to broker peace with the Others, but Dany attacking them provokes them again, and Bran is forced to try and stop her, whilst Jon is the one caught in the middle. They're the 3 dragonrides. Dany becomes blinded by her sense of duty to vanquish the White Walkers, she almost kills Bran, Jon saves him, kills Dany, Dany gets deathbed redemption, peace follows, the Others return North, Bran becomes King of the Realm and Jon becomes his protector, but not Hand of the King, he won't break his vow as a Brother of the Night's Watch. Also, I believe Tyrion will die at some point. He is too beloved to be left alive, no way. Anyway, sorry for the long read, but I love your videos, the editing, the explaining, the details, the structure, and I would like to hear your take on this. Flame on!

[@Sogenking]

Alt Shift X i think drogo is azor ahai.. its that straightforward

[@MrGenocide327]

Kaguya Grimmjow Usually beloved characters die for their good "flaws". Like Ned and his honor and Robb and his love. Like Varys said in season 2, Ned didn't know how to "play the game", you know, because of his honor, but he did say Tyrion knew how to play it. I think it is a strong indication that Tyrion will probably be alive at the end of the series.

[@cjgray8825]

Kaguya Grimmjow For your theory to work then that would mean all we know of Bloodraven is wrong, the first men all but died after the Andel invasion which made the seven knigdoms. years later the first King Aegon came and conquered six of the seven and later brought the last into his kingdom. The Night's Watch was made after the long night which happened before the andels came and took over meaning the others where known and taken care of. Bloodraven is a bastard of the Fourth King Aegon, living more then a hundred years before the start of the Song of Ice and Fire. How in the hell do you explain him being the god of the others?

[@elementneon]

S04E02 Tyrion to Varys: "Breakfasting with the King?" Varys: "I'm afraid foreigners aren't welcome at such exclusive affairs" Tyrion: "ohhh to be foreign..."

[@malnorice]

there is one very big hint in favor of this theory, and it exists outside the books. It was in a GRRM interview, in which he claimed he had a big 'Tyrion' problem when writing the books, but then later came up with the perfect solution. I don't recall where I saw the interviews, and thus don't recall where the line is between what was actually said and what I extrapolated, but this suggests that writing Tyrion was a problem for writing a convincing story and the solution was to make Tyrion a dwarf. Let's think of what would be different if he wasn't a dwarf, and what it explains if he is. First, we know that Tywin has a lot of pride. He's not likely to admit when someone has gotten the best of him (i.e. by sleeping with his wife). If Tyrion was, indeed, the bastard child of the king, Tywin would not be likely to kill him off as that would be an admission of someone having had the best of him. However, in raising this child that wasn't his, he still would have treated him poorly. But from a writing point of view, it would be very difficult to write this without giving it away unless there was some other thing about Tyrion towards which Tywin could direct his loathing - i.e. being a dwarf. As such, when GRRM said that making Tyrion a dwarf was a solution to a big writing problem, I think the problem was how to explain Tyrion's relationship with Tywin, without immediately suggesting that they aren't related by having unexplained hostility between them. Writing Tyrion as a dwarf offers explanation to that hostility, thus masking the possibility of Tyrion being a bastard son of the king, thus (from the perspective of GRRM) making it much easier to write their shaky relationship. There doesn't seem to be any other point to making Tyrion a dwarf that couldn't have been written just as easily for a non-dwarf.

[@nelsonchereta816]

"I am your son. I have ALWAYS been your son."

[@DomenicoParigino]

I really love this channel. I'm a huge fan of both books and TV shows and I can tell this is the best channel on the subject. Not just because it's the most complete in content, but it gets to understand the way this masterpiece was intended, parting good theories from unlikely ones. And most of all, it manages to express the introspective aspects of the characters, that are what makes ASOIAF world unique. I thank you very much, you're great.

[@charliehuerta]

Aerys II had deficit of having children during a long period of time. (between Raeghar and Viserys), that could link to the result of Tyrion genetics. As well, in the episode where the dragons where locked in Mareen, Tyrion was very close to them without getting harm, just like Jon Snow (Aegon). I totally support your theory.

[@lyndontuck7084]

These videos are all fantastic, I love the explanations and graphics, but for some reason the sound on them isn't that great. There are little tics in it where it seems to either cut out or pop slightly. Could you sort that out for the next one? All the same, keep up the good work, these videos are great.

[@AltShiftX]

Lyndon Tuck Thanks! Yeah some videos have audio issues, this one's among the worst. It's better in more recent vids, and still improving.

[@lyndontuck7084]

Thanks for the reply, that's great that you're sorting it out. I look forward to seeing more of your videos!

[@thefacelessguitarist6754]

Lyndon Tuck tyrion is the monkey! in your previous video about the long night. that every region have a hero. and you said a hero with a monkey, maybe tyrion is th emonkey becouse he is dwarf. idk just a theory. tryion call him self a monkey in the previous season of GoT.

[@thefacelessguitarist6754]

I'am talking to the creator of this video sorry!

[@JacobSmith-rh2sr]

Also, note that Tywin told Tyrion that he couldn't prove that he wasn't his son in the show before he was killed on the toilet

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes

[@duganrocks100]

Best evidence. He said he raised him as he couldn't prove he wasn't his own. Makes much more sense.

[@islipperyfellow6487]

@@duganrocks100 Actually, no evidence at all which goes to show that this theory is pretty much baseless. Tywin only said that about tyrion because he wanted to tell him that he didn't think of him as his son and couldn't fathom the possibility that a great man such as himself could create someone like tyrion but he also recognised that he simply couldn't kill tyrion or let him rot in some cell because Tywin had no justifiable reason to do so(he couldn't prove he was someone else's child because he wasn't someone else's child).In everyone's eyes, tyrion was tywin's son. Even tywin knew it in his heart that tyrion was his own but just couldn't bear to admit it cause he despised him.

[@SquallNN]

I had Game of Thrones ads on this one and I was confused watching it for like 15 seonds until I finally realised what's going on

[@ReporterRed]

I don't think Tywin hating Tyrion for "killing" Joanna is particularly stupid. As mentioned in your video, Joanna was one of the few things, if not the only thing, that made Lord Tywin smile - and that's not easy to do. While Tywin is wise and probably does not literally believe Tyrion did it "intentionally", Tyrion is still a symbol of Joanna's death and a scar for Tywin. I want to believe this theory, and in some ways I do, but even if it's not true, I think Tywin's "hatred" for Tyrion is still both justifiable and understandable.

[@Edith19]

tommytom Oh, I couldn't say it better :)

[@AlexIsModded]

When Tyrion says he dreamt of having a dragon, I think it's interesting he says "have" and not "own". They aren't material possessions to him. The fact that he mentions fire is very interesting as well. Also, his strategy with the wildfire is also intriguing not just because it's fire, but because that's what Tyrion turned to, or basically chose to rely on. Couple that with him starting fires to pretend it's dragonfire says a lot in my opinion about his connection to the dragons.

[@joshuageorge723]

I like how this guys explains things it’s not dramatic or explosive instead it’s simple, informative, and entertaining

[@MissJoy16]

I guess we'll never know unless GRRM tells us specifically, but I could see Tywin believing (or choosing to believe) that Tyrion was the son of Aerys and not him, in order to make himself feel better and create distance between himself and Tyrion. And over time that can escalate quite dramatically. Interesting video--both sides make good points. Thanks!

[@reinrose82]

On Joanna’s wedding night? You remember Tyrion’s the youngest, right? I think Tyrion was supposed to be the PROOF that Jamie and Cersei were not Aery’s bastards. He was supposed to look like his siblings. Tywin hates Tyrion for not disproving that rumor, and killing Joanna who had the truth. Tywin rejects Tyrion for all the truths he refuses to face.

[@ARandomGuy24]

Yeah but if such a man did it on the wedding night he'd probably do it again at a later date if he had an oppournity to do it.

[@zzz13339]

Me: The books are damn deep! Fans: Come out of the kiddie pool, man! We have the Pacific Ocean here!

[@madsras42]

I love this. So well thought out and well argued. Definitely subscribing. Keep up the good work.

[@AltShiftX]

Mads Rasmussen Thanks!

[@jillunger6426]

I think I have a minor crush on your brain and your voice. Your Videos are so well thought out, so well presented and capture the personality of the character. I particularly love your Arya portrait. You seem to empathize and get inside the characters minds. You also have a lovely speaking voice.

[@Limeclient]

its 2019 now and this is a much better theory for the show than the show was ... sad

[@spikegilfer1997]

The investigated identity of Aegon "Young Griff" Targaryen next, if you would be so kind.

[@spikegilfer1997]

I take that like as a "Maybe"

[@veronikamars445]

he's a blackfyre. not truly aegon VI

[@spikegilfer1997]

***** Or if he is descended from Aerion Brightflame his claim would be superior to even Maester Aemon is he hadn't become a maester and taken the black.

[@OrdosKoala]

spikegilfer1997 How can you have superior claim to someone who was offered to be a king but gave it up for his brother? Aerion was in exile and they skipped even his son in the line of succession. I don't think his great-great-grandson would get a chance against the last Targaryen king's oldest grandson

[@spikegilfer1997]

***** If the line lives, a claim can be made,

[@sesskag17]

I don't think GRRM would go this route twice. Jon's a secret Targaryen. Having Tyrion be one to, it loses its shock factor. He doesn't strike me as someone to go on recycled material.

[@shihoblade]

Sorry to necro you two years later but GRRM would go this route if its only a distraction. My personal opinion the real shock isnt thag tyrion is aerys son, the shocker is that Rhaegar is Tywins son. Re read the details of Aerys rain and his " mad rumblings" with that info a In mind and alot of things fall into place. Aerys screaming his head off about his wife being unfaithful to him but no one listens to the mad king....

[@shannond7437]

It would be more fun if Tywin’s golden twins were actually fathered by Aerys. The timeline and irony works better for this. Tyrion being Tywin’s only child would be something GRRM would do.

[@nicmagtaan1132]

the 3rd head is stannis the mannis

[@rikvanpaddenburg3495]

His aunt Genna confirms that "Tyrion is his fathers son, I told him as much" to Jaime. She could be wrong, but she gives a good analysis of Jaimes character compared to his uncles and fathers.

[@noDice07]

Just goes to show how truly amazing GRRM is, made two very compelling stories about Tyrion but chose the stronger one and wrote around it. Whilst hinting at the other story allowing for theories and cause the reader to think. Beautiful

[@jacksparrow4690]

That was very well put, thought out and edited. I was also thinking exactly what you said with a different approach however. With most people saying and loving the idea of Jon, Tyrion and Khaleesi flying on dragons burning all the white walkers, uniting the 7 kingdoms a happy ending so now everyone fuck and be satisfied. Seemed like a cop out for George R. R. Martin. I wasn't looking at the show for details, hints, foreshadowing etc. because honestly none of it matter, look at hints all you want, almost no one would of predicted the red wedding. So I looked at it from George R. R. Martin perspective and tried to imagine what he imagines. Which of course I am unable. However, what I figured and understood from his statements is that he is challenging the idea of protagonists having this impenetrable shield and whenever there is conflict they never seem to be bother by it, not even by death because (resurrection). Kill of all these loved and favored characters, pop that virgin cherry that was created by bullshit-happy-ending-main-character-is-always-fine, that movies and shows love to show because that cliche is favorable and makes money so fuck it why not remake it. Lets feed the audience same garbage with different stories. Which is precisely what I don't want to happen, not a typical happy ending bullshit that people never seem to get enough of and love seeing to the point that they are drooling and not realizing they are seeing the same exact shit over, and over, just with different stories.

[@michaelhepburn581]

It's interesting to listen to your older videos now. Your seem so much calmer in future videos as you've settled in to your craft :)

[@skullsRS]

He could be a targaryen, but Tywin loved Joanna and Tyrion killed Joanna when he was born, so for Tywin to hate Tyrion wouldnt be so unlikley. It is definitely an interesting story if he would be a targaryon... but IF he is it must be for some important reason. Wouldnt be well written if he just happen to be a targaryen. The prophecy says that azor ahai most have/be a dragon with three heads. But it could be that azor ahai just lead three dragons (which danny has) so if john and tyrion are a targaryon it might be that John, Tyrion and danny fly the three dragons.

[@Aerophina]

Tyrion is truly one of the greatest characters I've ever seen before. I love that guy.

[@josephdanieljirehdimacali4418]

They were alluding Tyrion to be a Targaryen in Season 6 where he was able to tame 2 dragons. But D&D kinda forgot?

[@shannond7437]

The golden twins are more likely to be Tywin’s by the timeline and irony of Tyrion being his only child.

[@jac1111]

I thought they were eluding to that too. Viserion is her golden dragon, named for her brother... and Tyrion is her golden little brother she doesn't know about! I was really hoping to see him ride a dragon. Perhaps we will if the remaining books are ever written. I also think it has to be Tyrion because it seems that the other Aegon running around with Jon Connington is a fake Aegon, possibly a Blackfyre who was told he was Aegon since he was young so much that he believes it, and has Targaryen features.

[@brandon_astris]

@@jac1111 golden older brother

[@jac1111]

@@brandon_astris haha yes, I was thinking about the small lion in one of her visions, that kind of little, but of course he is older.

[@brandon_astris]

@@jac1111 oh thx

[@chrissirch7208]

Another hint for this crazy theory... when Dany is walking inside the camp where they keep the people suffering with the Bloody Flux, Ser Barristan tells her to not get near or she might get the flux. She tells him to pay no mind, that Targaeryans aren't afflicted by such diseases (She even goes as far as remembering never been sick during her childhood). Tyrion gets exposed to the bloody flux when he had to wipe his master's butt while enslaved along with Penny. He got grabbed on and pulled down by a Stoneman during the conflict at the bridge of Hope and didn't get Grayscale either, but Jon did and he only touched Tyrion after he was drowning-- to save him. Coincidence? maybe I'm just thinking too much into it... I love your channel anyway!

[@ariamck4919]

Chris Sirch I agree. It's quite a big clue that one.

[@EliteRocketBear]

Chris Sirch Targs are not immune to illnesses. It's only there to add more to their self delusions. From what we know of the past of ASOIAF, Targs have died of Greyscale, infections and illness.

[@EliteRocketBear]

***** A whole lot more and better studd than what you have seen this season. Only Dany's story for example has the Sons of the Harpy being more ambiguous. It's actually debated whether or not they were terrorist, or simply the locals revolting against Dany, because the killings are quite random. Then you also have this whole disease spreading through Meereen, and the afflicted are isolated outside of the city to prevent it from spreading, then you also have a ton of refugees just camping outside of the city. A lot of political power plays occurring between Dany and the Meereenese on her council. Then you have the other slave cities rising up against her, despite she liberated them shortly before. That leads to a bunch of envoys being sent, etc. Then you have the Dornish envoys sent to Dany, she denies them and then the Dornish attempt to steal a dragon. The show doesn't really do it justice, they reduce the storylines down to saturday morning cartoon versions of them. And Tyrion engages in some pig jousting with another dwarf.

[@JenLight]

***** "they reduce the storylines down to saturday morning cartoon versions of them. And Tyrion engages in some pig jousting with another dwarf." Just gonna leave that there.

[@EliteRocketBear]

***** Comedic effect, if anything. For Tyrion it is actually a hugely degrading moment.

[@TrueAvatarChannel]

You did a video about Pertyr. How about Varys?

[@AltShiftX]

Colby Dollarhite The thing about Varys is you can't really discuss his plans without going into ADWD. So I figure it makes sense to do a video on him after the show has caught up.

[@TrueAvatarChannel]

Ohhhh, i wasn't sure on how your video bases worked x) Okay! I hope to see it when the show does catch up x)

[@KaranDas]

Trust me..you don't wanna see that video.major spoilers.especially if you aren't caught with the latest book.

[@TrueAvatarChannel]

Alt Shift X Sooooooo, i gots whole lot of likes. And im think you should totally make a Varys video.

[@TrueAvatarChannel]

Karan Das I've read all the books x)

[@amsbeats841]

if anybody is Aery's bastard, it's Cersei (and obviously Jamie) wildfire, cruelty, her and her son Joffrey. I like that a lot more than Tyrion. However I concede that he's probably one of the dragon's three heads, foreshadowed by the fascination with dragons.

[@H0ylandDesigns]

I'm thinking and hoping this as well (that Jaime and Cersei's father is Aerys). There's so much twisted symbolic sense in this. Like you said, they're both mirroring the "flip a coin"-sides of the Targaryens by being good and bad, they're into incest, and their children are either cruel or good. Cersei has many similar traits as Aerys, as well as liking wildfire. The irony with Tywin is that he's always talking about his legacy and only cares for Jaime and Cersei, but nothing for Tyrion, which actually might be his only true son (or maybe he has none and Tyrion is of Aerys as well). Then I'm also thinking about the whole Azor Ahai thing - that the hero needs to sacrifice someone he loves. This might well be Jaime - Cerseis "valonqar", as the witch tells her when she's younger. And I have a strong feeling that Jaime is gonna have to be the one to stop Cerseis madness in the next season - which would make him a Kingslayer, Queenslayer and Kinslayer. That's like the ultimate Azor Ahai.

[@runelord37]

There is NO way that Cersei and Jamie are the children of Aerys.

[@amsbeats841]

No argument just a dismissive statement? Well played

[@spikegilfer1997]

Tyrion has been with Aegon and is making his way to Dany. Tyrion has one Black eye and one Green eye. What where the colors of the sides in the first dance of the dragons?

[@nordy259]

I 100% believe the R+L=J theory but not everyone can be a secret someone else, at least a couple people in game of thrones just have to be themselves

[@datguy7221]

I would like it if tyrion was a targaryen but due to being raised by tywin, he takes on tywins skills and what not, so not only is Tyrion Aerys's son, but because he's raised by tywin, he's alot like tywin, Giving him further reason to hate him and want him dead, Like not only would he be another mans son, but he would still see himself in him despite he's the mad kings son, So I don't think him being a targaryen wouldn't make him less interesting, To me at least.

[@AmiraIhsan]

My biggest thought through watching this, obviously with what is now hindsight, was that he was able to “speak to” the dragons. Yes they were weak, but they didn’t kill him. They kinda listened. Also, the mad king making his bastard son Tywin’s heir seems like the kind of hateful thing he would do-knowing how much it would hurt and pain Tywin.

[@StormAlterWorlds]

I've never subscribed to the "Tyrion Targaryen" theory. As you've pointed out, there just isn't enough support for it in the books, and the timelines don't quite fit. However, I believe it's entirely possible that Jaime and Cersei are the children of the Mad King. There is a great deal of material that suggests this, and it would make for an interesting duality between Jaime and Tyrion, each being complicit in the death of his own father.

[@Lizzie-ve7kt]

It also seems as if having his beloved wife impregnated by the mad king would’ve been a great embarrassment to Tywin and made him look weak, so that could be another reason why he raises Tyrion as a Lannister despite his obvious hatred of him.

[@Ani0227]

you explained with absolute perfection why this theory would ruin the tywin/tyrion storyline. good job.

[@Rogue-bt4wp]

Tyrion's mother had been at Casterly Rock for 7 years before she gave birth to him, she was banished from court before she gave birth to Jaime and Cersei..so if any of them are children of King Aerys it's the twins since she was living at King's Landing when she conceived them.

[@TylerJBrown192]

Joanna was brought back to court when Jamie and Cercei were six years old according to a world of ice and fire

[@adelhelaltube]

"The human heart in conflict with itself is the only thing worth writing about". So well said, so well presented. Hats off to you man.

[@hoailamtran8289]

The 3 Targaryens have their mothers die giving birth to them?

[@rangarolls6018]

Holy shit, never thought of that!

[@Andxel2]

+Hoai Lam Tran That's really a great point.

[@michonnewalker4246]

Tyrion look nothing like the mad king and you don't need to be Targaryen to have a connection to a dragon

[@Solo-Skywalker]

@@michonnewalker4246 he look more like the mad king then he did his "father"

[@michonnewalker4246]

@@Solo-Skywalker No he doesn't and can you believe Tyrion is a Targaryen, I don't see no proof he a Targaryen

[@dlaroc]

All Lannisters have straight hair except Tyrion. Noticed that about Jon too.

[@HeckinDarn]

That's the actors

[@ciuvicamariaemanuela9397]

daenerys has curly hair too if it's free.

[@thesurvivorssanctuary6561]

Actually, Rob Stark's actor has curly hair.

[@kyekimler]

This is a book theory, not related to the show whatsoever.

[@oVerLordXeRoX]

In the book, all cersei and jamie are described as having "golden curls". Even joffrey is said to have long and curly hair

[@greyfells2829]

Crazy looking back at these vids and thinking about how much I used to care.

[@sv4647]

I think Tywin himself is not completely sure if Tyrion is his son or not

[@notnero5280]

Yeah he is.

[@nikhiliyengar1510]

He knew it fully well. He was just very resentful of the fact.

[@karstenberning]

i love your videos! Please more more more

[@quinnquintillus2925]

It's funny that Tywin is hypocritical towards the idea of his son and daughters incest since he was screwing his own cousin, Joanna. his children are technically inbreds

[@perdybirdie]

Quinn Quintillus that would explain a lot...

[@ghostface490]

You know this has got to be the most solid "crack-pot" theory I've heard thus far that actually makes sense within the confines of the books.

[@JohnDoeTheGoodGuy]

*What would make even more sense is if Jaime and Cersei were actually Aerys Targaryen's bastards, and Tyrion was Tywin's only true son.*

[@amklein6206]

+John Doe O.o that would be more consistent with Aerys taking liberties with joanna on the wedding night. Also the incest and general craziness of Cerci. Would put a whole different spin on Jaime killing Aerys also.

[@torapompon6622]

+John Doe agree....if the book said Aerys took liberties at the wedding night. so it is Jaime and Cersei...not Tyrion. but the theory of the main 3 (Jon, Dany and Tyrion) is motherless....their mother (non Targaryen) died giving birth to a dragon is awesome

[@Fr33domtv]

Don't forget he freed the dragons in the dungeon.

[@deluxo42]

This video was made 2 years ago lol

[@Fr33domtv]

+Why Peee oh damn.. lol

[@vishishify]

Kevin Freedomstar that doesn't necessarily mean that he is a targ. dragons are said to be more intelligent than common animals. they may have just noticed that he wasn't here to harm them or ride them. a character in the book called nettles managed to ride a dragon after feeding it regularly, and she wasn't a targaryan

[@toi_shi]

That's not what happened in the books

[@willmosse3684]

That is a show only plot element. That hasn't happened in anything written by Martin himself

[@CoachPritch]

So well done! You’ve successfully argued both sides...but, you’re probably right, he’s probably NOT a Targaryen...the GRRM quote and what you say about their relationship does it for me...

[@LavaTF2]

I had never even noticed Tyrion had one black eye and one green one

[@chorick2000]

+LavandulaWine Books are not the same as the series...In the books you don't have to notice it, you actually read it. In the show they just cast someone who mostly fits the profile. Book's Tyrion is said to be noseless and quite horripilan to look upon...Peter is actually a pretty decent looking guy. Another example is Cersei and Jaime who are suppose to be identical twins ¿Do you get the point? These videos are based on the book series made with visual material of the hbo series ...

[@LavaTF2]

Right... Deepest apologies if I offended you from my misunderstanding...

[@chorick2000]

Hahaha of course not. . .carry on

[@abbieb8130]

If one is a male and one is a female, they're never identical twins.

[@ayajade6683]

@@abbieb8130 www.livescience.com/amp/64882-rare-semi-identical-twins.html Very rare but it happens

[@AQGOAT24]

Genna Lannister says this: "Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year".

[@johnwayne1069]

Implying they are alike not saying Jaime isn't his son he's just nothing like tywin

[@Agent_Sparkle]

Waiting for new Alt vids so I'm going back and rewatching them all! Can't wait until you post some more, you have the best quality vids around!

[@StonedNinjaLUFC]

I've not read the books - but i get a feeling that it will be Jon danny and Tyrion that will ride the dragons into battle. Also feel that there is a magical link between the Targaryens and the Starks (Ice &Fire).

[@LakerNation24]

spoogeninja the link is rhagaer and lyanna whos son is Jon, who is the rightful heir to iron throne but hes sworn to the nights watch

[@StonedNinjaLUFC]

yes but wont a war with the white walkers will be a legitimate war for the nights watch to get involved in? The dragons will be the best weapon against them.

[@militarybrat1121]

spoogeninja Both houses have magical traits running in them. The Targaryens have a connection to dragons, fire magic, and resistance to disease. The Starks have both greenseers and wargs (in fact Bran is both). They also share certain impulsive traits which the Targaryen's call dragon blood and the Stark's call wolf blood (Lyanna was said to have wolf's blood like her older brother Brandon, and Rhagar was a Dragon Targaryan). A child of both house would have the potential to be quite powerful.

[@toufikismail6982]

militarybrat1121 thank you. I think that is why "The Prince that was promised" theories makes sense now. If, J=R+L is true

[@StonedNinjaLUFC]

+militarybrat1121 After watching the latest episode... the battle with the dead /white walkers and Jon killing the white walker with his valyrian steel... now that wasn't the valyrian steel right? it was because it was Jon Snow? - and is it possible that Tyrion is a Targaryen?

[@LucyLynette]

I always wonder about the dichotomy of the "Tyrion Targaryen" theory vs. the "Tywin writ small" belief. Do the two stances have to be mutually exclusive? If no one (including Tywin) in Westeros knows Tyrion is anything other than a full-blooded Lannister, what value in the contentious father-son relationship is lost if it's revealed after the father's death to not be the case? If Tywin never knew (or strongly suspected) he wasn't Tyrion's true father, his relationship with Tyrion stands as it is, and *nothing* is going to reverse the impact that relationship has had on how Tyrion has turned out as a person. Tyrion is a naturally intelligent man who learned both great and terrible things from the man he called "father." Whether that person was his biological sire or not doesn't change that, and doesn't change Tywin's meaning when he disowns him.

[@runelord37]

Well said.

[@mariarogers74]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that can see that Tywin hates Tyrion because he's exactly like him and everyone hates when they deal with someone that's exactly like oneself.

[@IcoKirov]

what if cersei and jaime are the mad kings kids? would that explain their incestuous relationship? were the targarians drawn into incest or they were doing it because of (what they believed is) the practicality of keeping their blood pure

[@gjlipana881]

Dude. Cersei and Jaime were born 1st.

[@seand.g423]

6:39 yo, that last bit actually sound pretty bangin! Seeing myself out now...

[@sari18700]

I personally believe that all three lannisters (cersie , jamie and tyrion ) are actually targaryans.. Targaryans always had children in 2s or 3s .maybe johanna lannister cheated on tywin or aerys forced her.in any case they are targaryans. "every time a targaryan is born god flips a coin" lets start from the bottom! Joffrey,tommen,marcella..joffery was the crazy one Cersie,jamie,tyrion..cersie is the crazy one. Rhegar,viserys and dany ..viserys the crazy one! It has always been like that. and how ironical would it be! Robert wanted to destroy the targaryans.all of them..and he unknowingly married one.

[@salma4193]

I hope GRRM doesn’t do this because it really would take away from his characters depth, to say everything tywin did was because he wasn’t his son takes away so much from Tywins denial and Tyrion’s pain and arc

[@PedroLucas-mg5je]

It would've make more sense if Jaime and Cersei were the Mad King's bastard children!

[@journey2319]

"It's tragic, it's complex, it's'.... "the human heart in conflict with itself is the only thing worth writing about.."

[@KamuiFuma81]

+Journey Li where is this from?

[@journey2319]

KamuiFuma81 in this video, from 8:50 to 8:57. :) referring to GRRM's quote.

[@telephonic]

I think the way Tyrion calmed the dragons when he set them free by unchaining them proves the theory that he has dragon's blood and is a Targaryan.

[@ProgrammingMadeEZ]

This is what I have come to believe as well.

[@mattfromtinder9803]

I hear you but I'm not so sure. He seemed to be sure enough from his investigation into dragon lore that they were intelligent. When he approached they were poised to attack until he backed up into a bowing position, at least thats what it seemed like to me, and the dragons seemed to respond directly to that action. Of course I could just be reading into the scene too much.

[@MarioKartWiiFan1]

Targaryens have been killed by dragons before though, so having Targaryen blood is irrelevant. The dragons might've just realised that an unarmed dwarf cannot harm them.

[@xylan9543]

please dont eat the help

[@Ema-fm5zy]

Having Targaryen blood isn't irrelevant. It's relevant wether a Targaryen has "the dragon", the ability not to be burn by fire and be somewhat connected to them, like Dany is. Her brother was killed by heated gold in the first season and she said he wasn't the dragon because he was killed by fire. The fun fact is that some characters never had to get in contact with extreme heat, so, for example, if John finds out he's a Targaryen he may try to look if he has the same ability as Daenerys. I wonder how would Tyrion react to extreme heat.

[@yuionanodesuyo]

Both Jon's and Tyrion's mothers die in childbirth.. they do have this in common. Does being a non Targaryen and giving birth to a dragon hurt that much??

[@tomfleming7850]

+Marvel Girl So does Daenerys' mother. The three heads of the three headed dragon.

[@samsmom1491]

Maybe if the mother is not of Targaryen blood. Edit: I just realized that is what you said...oops!

[@kekero540]

I like the idea that Tywin believes Tyrion is Aerys bastard but Tyrion is really the closest thing to his son he has.

[@ngoctuinh1342]

The better theory is , IMHO, Jaime and Cersei are Aerys children. As a result, Tommen is a Targaryen child. He will then proceed to kill Margery and ride to battle on the back of Ser Pounce as another Head of the Dragon.