UK Self Defence Laws for Martial Artists

We talk a lot about self defence on this channel, and I've been known to point out that knowledge of the local laws is vital. So here is a look at the UK law at it applies to self defence

[@grimmriffer]

Had a friend who was a special constable, he said he was always surprised that members of the public just shrug and walkaway from antisocial and violent incidents. I told him that nowadays us law abiding folk would expect the police to just arrest and charge everyone who got even remotely involved, in whatever capacity. It made him kinda sad to realise how low the perception, and possibly the reality, of the institution had fallen. Just look at all these just stop oil videos, the public tries to move the idiots out the road, and only then do the police spring into action - and grab the people trying to prevent the crime! 😔

[@GSOHJM]

It's not defence unless its absolutely necessary and proportionate. All of the idiots dragging protestors around the road are doing so illegally.

[@ArmchairViolence]

"Weapons... are illegal." AND I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAAAN, WHERE AT LEAST I KNOW I'M FREEEEE!! My heart goes out to anyone practicing HEMA in the UK. Explaining to the cops that a longsword was genuinely the closest thing at hand is going to be interesting.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

No not at all. You can possess anything at all that you have a reason to. I've literally held a HEMA class with steel swords on the grass outside a police station. A couple of them came over to see what we were doing, and then took a flier. You can have a house full of swords, and then one is very likely to be the first thing to hand.

[@toddellner5283]

Firearms are the leading cause of death for minors in the US. We are now up to more than one mass shooting a day. Trauma from school shooting drills is a significant public/mental health issue. There are more guns than people in the US. And the cure for this is more guns. Always more guns with fewer restrictions. That isn't freedom. That's nationwide terrorism.

[@lyooyiylklykyokyklky]

One of our guys in our HEMA club is a copper in the met and he has loads of stuff with no issue. There's all manner of defences and exceptions to having weapons, you just can't have them to hurt people with.

[@ArmchairViolence]

@@EnglishMartialArts You know what, I was probably thinking about how some AMERICAN police would interpret those laws. Completely forgetting that the police culture in the UK is completely different. My bad! Any country that has both American police and UK weapons laws would be doomed.

[@ArmchairViolence]

@@EnglishMartialArts But it's still mind-boggling to me that a cop could hear "a longsword just HAPPENED to be nearby, and I had never previously intended to use it in a self-defense scenario!" and not roll their eyes and arrest you, but maybe I'm just used to an American perspective.

[@osborne9255]

UK laws have always seemed unrealistic. As a kid in a working class area of Swansea, I used to get beaten up by groups of bullies all the time and no one gave a hoot. I get the same feeling about the lawmakers. Maybe the laws are written to protect the overlords and violent attack dogs. (I'm dripping with sarcasm on this issue).

[@bakters]

I believe that's the exact purpose of those laws. Whatever the prevalent practice at the moment can be, those laws give huge abilities to the state police.

[@Natural_law_lawyer]

I imagine reasonable to a Victorian is different to our cps or people system. SD in Britain is almost non existence

[@lewisb85]

What I find quite interesting is that recently (I heard this story at a grading seminar talking about reasonable force and how teaching someone BJJ was giving them a weapon) a student at a BJJ academy in Bristol had his bike stolen from outside the gym the person who chased him down was actually one of the professors, after riding towards the people from the BJJ school in an attempt to escape the professor took him down and held him in a seatbelt hold, the bike thief was going "you're going to be so f&&ked when the cops show up" nope they actually applauded the professors restraint when they came up, oh forgot the final part the professor's day job he's a police constable for BTP he knows what legal restraint is.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Sounds like a very proportionate and reasonable reaction to me.

[@bakters]

" *professor's day job he's a police constable* " That's probably the real reason he was treated kindly. There is a recent vid of a guy who worked as a bodyguard. He intervened a lot, he knew the law and he was never even taken to court. But it doesn't mean he was treated kindly. He wasn't. Even when he saved a police-woman from two guys who were kicking her, he was still treated as a violent criminal. Arrested, investigated, questioned, then the charges were dropped due to "insufficient evidence" or some such. So this behavior of "applauding" a legal restraint does not seem to be the norm.

[@lewisb85]

@@bakters They didn't know that at the time plus he was BTP not Avon and somerset police.

[@rob8493]

@@baktersyou have heard half the story. You can help out in every situation to detain a person who has committed a crime snd as long as you use the minimal amount of force needed to achieve your goal then you will be fine. The issues come when you go overboard

[@bakters]

@@rob8493 " *you have heard half the story* " From a guy who did it for a living, for a number of years? " *minimal amount of force* " He claimed he was always clear on that. Never taken to court. " *you will be fine* " No. You will "escape the punishment". That's how you are treated. You literally risk your own life to save people, and you are treated, *repeatedly* , as a criminal, who's clever or lucky enough to escape the consequences of his malevolent actions. Ruminate on that.

[@ElDrHouse2010]

UK needs to learn that law doesn't result in anything the more rules you make up, but rather the harder the punishment for breaking a law the more that rule gets respected. This worked for El Salvador. They want to get rid of gangs? Declare them war. Treat them like war prisoners, punish hard they know punishment is soft now thats why they ignore all the laws they write.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

And yet the murder rate in El Salvador is still 8x higher than in England and Wales..

[@BeepBoop2221]

We tried that back in the 1800's stealing anything more than a shilling was a hanging office. So then came the phrase "you may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb". Meaning what's the point of only stealing a lamb when when you can steal a sheep when both get you hanged. The death penalty as a deterant does not work. Brutality as a deterent has failed in the "war on drugs".

[@bobadams7654]

Yes, it seems logical, but real life is not logical. The war on drugs is a farce. The criminals just get more violent. More profit is made etc

[@cragre28]

@@EnglishMartialArts Demographics.

[@varamaur9567]

Thank you for your video! The UK self defense (yes, I’m in the US) doctrine troubles me: why are law-abiding citizens/subjects at a legal disadvantage to criminals? If a criminal carries a tool/weapon purpose-built to inflict harm, then those who may be victims should be allowed under the law to utilize similar tools to protect themselves. Use the proper tool designed for the job at hand: common sense especially when it could be a matter of life and death.

[@bobadams7654]

Some good points, indeed. Unfortunately your common sense does not change the law. However, we can use items we carry, as long as they are not being carried specifically for self defence.

[@varamaur9567]

@@bobadams7654 - I appreciate you confirming that I properly understand the UK law/doctrine at a high level. More specifically, if a criminal may wield a weapon, say a knife (commonly used by criminals around the world), under what circumstances could I everyday-carry a similar implement? Must it not be a knife specifically intended for fighting (e.g. balisong, switchblade)? Since I was little, like many practical-minded people, I’ve routinely had a multi-tool of some kind in my car, pocket, bag, etc. since they invariably come in handy: usually their screwdrivers, sometimes their blades (increasingly the blades since Amazon became a thing). In any case, using a ballpoint pen/Biro, for example, to open a package or to defend against an attacker with a knife, when a proper knife has been the logical tool for these purposes throughout history, would defy common sense as well as be unreasonable if a knife could never be justified for everyday carry outside the home.

[@bobadams7654]

@varamaur9567 apart from carrying bladed items for work, religious purposes, training etc we are allowed to carry a non locking, folding knife with a blade length up to 3 inches - but not for the intention of self defence. There's a list of prohibited items, including switch blades, gravity knives, karambits, knuckle dusters, etc. We do a lot of training with improvised weapons including canes, torches, cell phones and even newspapers.

[@varamaur9567]

@@bobadams7654 - Appreciate the additional clarifications!

[@bobadams7654]

@varamaur9567 there's a lot of confusion about self defence, bladed implements etc in the general UK population (just read some of the comments in this thread!). This isn't surprising as sometimes the law isn't enforced, and the laws regarding offensive weapons does change. Plus there's the usual misinformation. 🙄

[@IR5464...]

I've never gone round starting fights, but when i was younger I couldn't walk away if someone started on me. As a result I've smashed up a fair few drunken idiots in the past. I always used the phrases used by the ex Doorman Geoff Thompson. 'I felt endangered, so i used reasonable force to neutralise the threat'. The worst the police did was a caution for affray once and a one time thrashing off the Greek police. It's definitely a case of 'it's what you say, not what you've done that gets you in trouble'.

[@BeepBoop2221]

The only thing you say to the police is "no comment".

[@IR5464...]

@BeepBoop2221 that's not gonna help when you've been caught on cctv, covered in blood with busted knuckles. You have to talk your way out with the correct phrases

[@Poohze01]

I think I'm in a bit of a grey area - elderly and somewhat disabled, but with a degree of martial arts training. I walk with a stick - a necessary mobility aid, which I've also trained with martially. I'm physically incapable of running, away and my walking sticks are all sturdy and strong. So if I'm attacked I'm going to use my walking stick to defend myself - it's already in my hand! It seems to me that the only way I could clearly follow the law would be to carry the least offensive walking stick possible - one of those aluminium numbers - and never train. That seems unreasonable to me. Plus, like in any encounter with the cops or courts, how you present has a lot to do with the result. If you've got the gift of the gab and present well, you're likely to get a better result than if not. I'm never comfortable with situations where the result depends on the cops & courts being 'reasonable'.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I think an elderly and somewhat disabled person using their walking stick to defend themselves successfully would become a national hero. as long as you don't hammer a few rusty nails through it first.

[@Poohze01]

@@EnglishMartialArts 😄 Makes 'em too hard to walk with! In most cases you're probably right, as long as one doesn't mouth-off too much. I do have one stick with a stainless steel head that could be seen as a long-handled mace. The head was a bit small for my hand, so I made a leather cover for it, and it's quite unobtrusive now. It has wonderful balance, and is a delight to walk with, but I do hesitate to take it out in public because if I ever had to use it to protect myself I think the cops would ask serious questions. I'm willing to admit I might be overthinking the whole issue... 🙄

[@bakters]

@@EnglishMartialArts " *stick - a necessary mobility aid, which I've also trained with martially* " See what I meant? You wrote it was some "leap of logic". Not at all. A stick can be a weapon, he *trained* to use it, so he *premeditated* its use. Even if right now it's tolerated, it does not mean it will be in the future. The law, *which you accept* , allows for penalizing such people in court. " *would become a national hero* " Or, more likely, he'd be treated as a criminal, then the charges would be dropped due to "insufficient evidence". But they'd stil keep it in their computers and the trace would pop up whenever a traffic cop would stop him. "Troublesome guy" branding.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

No, you don't seem to understand how the legal system in the UK works. It simply isn't possible to start applying laws in ways that they haven't been applied previously. Even if the wording might justify it. In essence the entire legal system, in England at least, is based on the common law. Which is to say that a court is bound by the decisions of a previous court. Legal precedent is vastly more important than anything else.

[@bakters]

" *It seems to me that the only way I could clearly follow the law would be to carry the least offensive walking stick possible - one of those aluminium numbers - and never train.* " I agree. " *That seems unreasonable to me.* " Either that, or the law is simply malevolent.

[@missk1942]

I encounteted a woman under attack by another on a busy city street, one woman had taken another to the ground and was pulling her hair, banging her head on the ground and the started to bite the victim on the face saying she was going to "slit her throat". No one went to help her. I was about 39 metets aeay and started to shout STOP as loud as I could untill i got to them, then I went behind the attacker who was thankfully wearing a hood on her jacket which i got hold of and do was able to pull her off the victim and continued to drag her away, a couple stepped in and got the victim up. The attacker was quite shocked to be dragged about and the jeacket was tight under their chin which prevented her from getting her hands on me. Funny thing was this all hapoened right nextvto a martial Arts store, no one from there came to the rescue it took 65 year old woman to step in.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Wow. Thank you for doing that.

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Great subject. I spent some time training as a security officer and this is basically what we were taught. Re weapons, when I was training with Jan De Jong, in Perth, Western Australia (doing Pencak-Silat and JuJutsu), in addition to traditional weaponry we also worked with "environmental weapons". Basically we leant to defend ourselves with whatever was at hand. That was back in the 80s and I still train that way now. Anyway, great video :)

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Thank you!

[@lewisb85]

I saw the local kali professor once say "if you want to go to jail do this, I'm showing you because its part of the art but NEVER in a real altercation".

[@toddellner5283]

Pencak Silat? Is that something you eat with peanu... Who am I fooling? Great to see another pesilat here! We once taught a college women's self defense class where the students brought whatever they usually carried. Laid it all out and tried to figure out how it could be used as a self defense tool. One woman - and we were proud - figured out how to use her fluffy teddy bear.

[@ruiseartalcorn]

@@toddellner5283 I absolutely dare not ask how that teddy was used! ;)

[@ruiseartalcorn]

@@lewisb85 Makes sense!

[@strongishguy683]

Hello, American here. I am of the opinion that my body is the weapon, and what folks consider "weapons" are rather tools that allow me to do things I couldn't do. For example, a sledgehammer handle lets me reach farther than my arm normally could. A firearm allows me to reach into a person's body and disrupt their organs. A flashlight lets me see in the dark. I am also of the opinion (as the one above, unsolicited) that any law that requires you to be on equal footing with the person victimizing unless you happen to have an equalizer near you is bad. And before my fellow Americans get all "We don't call 911 in this house!", you shouldn't investigate a bump in the night with a gun. You shouldn't draw down as your first, last, and only response to violence. You *should* train in martial arts so they can instill in you an aversion to violence. Good video, thank you for the discussion.

[@rafaelbabar3494]

A fantastic, executive, and succinct summary of the inequities and subtleties of British law when it comes to defending yourself or loved ones. You should note the classic use of British understatement when hinting at what you can a germ do to circumvent the ambiguities and forced compromises that one faces when confronted with an intruder or potential attacker.

[@FornClakes]

Excellent video, and very concisely put for a subject that can be easily complicated.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Thank you!

[@nagyzoli]

@EnglishMartialArts I subscribe to the East European laws when talking about self defense. It is a hybrid. It has the reasonable response requirement. It has the "not allowed to carry dedicated lethal weapons". But you CAN "plan in advance" and carry non lethal stuff. Pepper spray, tazer, a gun that fires rubber bullets. You just have to get a permit.. Also we have the concept of "who initiated the fight". Basically pre-emptive strike = you go to jail. But the law differentiates between "in your home" and "on the street". In your home the thresholds are much lax, as it is considered your sanctuary. So you can use a big ass axe to chop the head off the attacker IN YOUR HOME. But you can not carry said axe on the street. Also the law defines a "whatever goes" switch. If the attacking party is multiple opponents AND/OR the brandish any sort of weapon (melee or otherwise) the law considers the situation a "battlefield / combat zone" and there are no restrictions what so ever, you are basically "at war". This is how Hungarian and Romanian and Serbian law works (not 100% sure about Serbian). Of course the judge is a JUDGE, it is his job to determine the extremes. So for example.. if a group of 12 years old kids act tough with a shitty butterfly knife, and you are a massive bear like man with a fully sharpened katana and you whack the kids.. erm.. sorry, jail time for you. If instead of kids you have a group of 4 thick, strong muggers with knifes.. go ahead mate, mince meat them

[@lyooyiylklykyokyklky]

Excellent video! So many people restate the bull about how we "don't have a right to defend ourselves". You just have to be reasonable in the application of force. What people don't realise I think is that there are no limits on "reasonable" other than those dictated by the situation.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Exactly.

[@bakters]

You have the right to defend yourself as long as you are not prepared for it.

[@bobadams7654]

@bakters prepared, but not tooled up.

[@bakters]

@@bobadams7654 " *prepared, but not tooled up* " You guys carry umbrellas often. As far as I understand it, if you prepare yourself to use an umbrella by attending self-defense classes which teach this historical martial art, you put yourself in a delicate position in case you ever use it. So being prepared to use even everyday items is not exactly neutral, is it?

[@bobadams7654]

@bakters good point. It's not the being trained, it's why you have it and the context eg a walking stick/cane can be carried as a mobility aid NB not carried to be used for self protection- but you can use it as such, even if you are trained (check out cane masters). However, the person has got to be very careful what they say if questioned by police.

[@matthewrussell4343]

As an American that has actually got to travel the U.K. before for my senior trip, I remember actually getting one of these toy viking swords, and I tell you, that thing was like police baton it so stout. I got it at a toy store in Edinburgh and I carried that thing everywhere and not one bobby thought anything about. Of course this was 2018. Now I understand why those viking swords were made the way they were.

[@RoboticSafey]

For the Americans in the Audience solicitor is the British term for lawyer (roughly) and for the record no I don't have any issues with him using British centric terms.

[@oldtiger8181]

@EnglishMartialArts I've been looking around KZbin, and your video is "the best" on UK self defense laws that I have seen.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Thank you!

[@kevinlobos5519]

Your last point about HEMA rings very true for other traditional martial arts that have melee weapons. In kung fu for example, we learn how to use weapons of so many shapes and sizes (some of them very awkward and exotic until you get the hang of it) that then we can translate that skill to any object that we may have at our disposal if the situation calls for it. Fight teaaam! 👊🏼.

[@Randomman_4826]

I'm really interested in Law and want to become a Lawyer. Thanks for explaining the basics of Self Defence law

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

I've talked my way out of three serious fights in my adult life (one of them more listened my way out of, really; guess I'm the listen first, try to de-escalate with guard up type,) so I don't have much experience I think I could contribute here aside from this: This is a measured and well-communicated set of observations posted here. Be wary, however, and second guess those who put forth their arguments one way or the other with much passion, as impassioned argument tends to be further from reasonable. Life gets very unpleasant sometimes, and human law cannot successfully inflict morality into the hearts of people. Do your best to protect yourself and those about you. Above all ... FIGHT TEAM!

[@JaxenChaz]

Thank you, that is a fascinating breakdown, but alas I am far too American to understand the rationale of British lawmakers. They're OK with you fighting back, but they object to you doing it efficiently, such as with weapons designed for the purpose, or with skills developed through practice. You can bash someone with a flashlight, but only if its the first time you've ever swung a flashlight. If you've practiced swinging your flashlight, or if your flashlight was specifically built to withstand bashing, you have committed a crime. Pardon the slippery slope, but what's to counter the claim that practicing martial arts demonstrates "combative intent" or something? The prosecutor would say, "You claim you only practice for sport, but witnesses state you clearly mentioned the 'effectiveness' of your art in 'real' fighting! What did you mean by that? Were you planning on committing violence?" I love martial arts, but if I wanted a fair fight I'd enter a tournament. Certainly the level of force must be reasonable and appropriate, but when faced with antisocial violence I would prefer to win as quickly as possible, using the best tools I can get. Please pardon your American cousin. I'm a new subscriber and I'm loving your content!

[@EnglishMartialArts]

No need to apologise, I always enjoy getting a different perspective. Welcome to the channel!

[@MrMatthewhg]

British Police are generally armed only with weapons intended to be non lethal. This puts them at risk if they encounter lethal weapons in the course of their duties. Weapons law is therefore designed to eliminate risk to Police Officers by penalising anybody - criminal or victim of crime - by criminalising the very possession of weapons. In theory it should eventually work out very well. In practice, though, many, many violent criminals have recently come to the UK and brought a lawless and violent culture with them. Accordingly, the Police are now at greater risk than ever before and the public are completely unprotected - and forbidden from protecting themselves.

[@LuxisAlukard]

So, there I was in my garage, just finished cleaning and assembling my antique Maxim machine gun, putting 250 round belt in it, just for looks, when some bloke burst through the door with an ice pick in his hands, screaming from the top of his lungs...

[@lewisb85]

"So I was sat in the living room cleaning the guns I use for three gun comps, I got so scared my finger accidently touched the trigger of my 12 bore".

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Pushing it a little, but the speargun example was a genuine one.

[@LuxisAlukard]

@@EnglishMartialArts That's awesome and brutal at the same time...

[@zachleprieur2871]

In the heat of the moment its good to know these things, best to not act on emotion and be prepared. Btw seen an umbrella that was made for defense capable by being made stronger for windy days like you mentioned quicky. #fightteam for life

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I've definitely seen a self defence umbrella somewhere too.

[@bobadams7654]

Yes. It's called "The self defence umbrella ".

[@conradswadling8495]

we are only allowed to use words, and even then we must ensure nobody is offended, even on behalf of others. there.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

You realise that's bollocks right?

[@exploatores]

I Live in Sweden. we got almost the same laws. We also got a in the heat of the moment exeption. for a example. a guy living in the same street as me. was at home with his Girlfriend. two guys broke in to his apartment. he ended up stabing both to deatn. one of them trying to get to the door. He might have gone a bit too far. but he was woken up in the middle of the night and it all was over kind of quick.

[@tapioperala3010]

Sounds like the lawyers are getting a new BMW the moment they take on a self-defence case :D Not sure if those laws are any more or less sensible than those in Finland, though :D

[@sherwoodprepper2544]

I get what you're saying, but I have 0% faith in the CPS or police. Good vid.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

They only decide to put you in front of a jury. It's the judge and the jury that matter. And you are never convicted because of what you did, but what you said about what you did...

[@lewisb85]

@@EnglishMartialArts What's the expression it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6?

[@user-pg2cp6sv1o]

As a Brit in the USA! UK law is ridiculous, and it's time it was changed to favour the defendent, not the attacker. Yes, it may be legal for people to defend themselves, but people should be allowed to be prepared to defend themselves. The fact they are not allowed to carry weapons, puts the violent criminal at an advantage. I want the law abiding citizen to be at an advantage, not the criminal!

[@FaoladhTV]

Philosophically, I think that laws against weapons are merely ceding that larger people should be able to use violence to coerce smaller people, since that is the net effect. Weapons equalize people whose bodies are differently-sized. That said, without some limits on weapon use, then it is just ceding the place of violence for everyone. I think that the English approach you outline here is as good as any other, assuming that it is truly applied fairly and with special attention paid to the evident intentions of the contending parties.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

And therein lies the key. If it is fairly applied than it's a perfectly good law.

[@DanTheWolfman]

Umbrella, if you're older cane, east about a thick wool sock to keep your Bike Lock chain from rusting? I know one on one ull be called but if jumped by a group...and u really use the bike lock? I hope you get a chance to watch some of my Narrated Crazy Catch Wrestling Submission Highlight vids or other vids this weekend and let me know what you think. A breakdown by you or interview if your interested?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I will check them out I promise!

[@someirishkid9241]

I think the law around unarmed self-defence is pretty reasonable (pun not intended), but I'm conflicted on our weapons law. I'll admit to not having done the research on this, but I do think it stands to reason and anecdotal evidence that a society where people regularly carry weapons is a more violent society. I'm thinking particularly about the story of a bank robbery in the deep south of the US where the bank patrons were carrying, fired at the robbers, and dozens of bullets were later found at the scene, only a fraction of which had actually hit the robbers. Plus, there are those road rage shootings and the like in the US. There is, in my mind, a decent argument to be made that even if there were a very stringent vetting process to ensure that someone had the proper training and mental state to carry a concealed weapon for self-defence, it's impossible to be sufficiently sure that they would *never, under any circumstances* use that weapon in anger or for some nefarious purpose. However, I can see a counterargument that there exists a middle ground between America's generally fairly lax firearms law and the UK's very strict weapons ban. I'd also consider myself some kind of radical leftist a lot of the time, and I think there's a decent argument that a complete weapons ban constitutes state overreach, particularly considering my generally harsh opinion of the UK government's tendency towards suppression of protest, and authoritarian tendencies in general. I think, too, that there's a lot of truth to the idea that armed minorities are harder to oppress, and as a transfeminine person, I'd definitely feel safer going on a night out if I were allowed to carry some kind of weapon. Plus, I lived until very recently in the only part of the UK (Northern Ireland) where it's possible to obtain a permit to carry a firearm for self-defence, but those are rarely given and there are... *special* historical circumstances that led to that law. Finally, there's the old adage that comes up any time gun restrictions are brought up on the internet: 'bad guys don't follow gun laws'. Having, again, grown up in NI, I definitely know that's the case. However, everyone follows that up with ', so the answer is a good guy with a gun', and I just don't know that there's any evidence that 'good guy with a gun stops bad guy with a gun' happens often enough to justify the increase in shootings in anger or panic. My impression is that most times a bad guy with a gun is stopped by a civilian that civilian is unarmed, even in places where civilian carry is legal, and again, I think introducing more guns into the situation is not necessarily the answer. I think ultimately I land somewhere around the idea that it shouldn't be forbidden to carry something with the intent of using it for self-defence; I think my KZbin history makes it so that I could never carry a 'tactical' (read: small, sturdy and easily operable) torch because I've thought and watched videos about how I would use it as a weapon, and that strikes (heh) me as unreasonable. However, I don't know where that middle ground lies.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

It's definitely an interesting issue for debate. In principle I'm pretty happy with the UK laws. I have many swords, knives, polearms, etc. I used to own a cabinet full of guns, but gave them up as they weren't getting used at all and it didn't feel right having them. All fully legal of course. You raise some interesting points about government overreach, and self protection. The former I agree with, the latter isn't really something I've had much reason to consider, as a large, confident, cis man trouble tends to avoid me, and on the few occasions when it hasn't weapons have never been necessary. But I'm self aware enough to know that my truth is not everyone's truth, so maybe your points there are equally valid. It's possible my rights are infringed by the government, but I watched the news reports on Dunblane unfold live on TV, and because of our laws I haven't had to watch it again, or worry about my own kids. So I'm generally pretty good with it...

[@someirishkid9241]

@@EnglishMartialArts I agree with everything you've said here. I'm young enough that I had to google Dunblane, and I agree that the near-absence of mass killings in the UK is a really strong argument against any pro-weapons stance I may have. I didn't consider it when writing the comment, but it's something I've been aware of in the past, so not bringing it up was a pretty major oversight. I didn't mention this in my original comment, but my biggest point of ambivalence in my own opinions is that I don't know if there's any weapon I'd consider both appropriate for self-defence and acceptable to make common. I generally side against firearms for obvious reasons, and I also don't think knives are generally a good choice for self-defence so I'm not in favour of those either, so in effect the sturdy torch is basically the only thing I've been able to come up with.

[@badart3204]

I would say that the self defense argument for America is really only a secondary argument due to the real reason being similar to the Marxist reason that everyone should be armed in order to enact violent revolution most effectively, while Marx only really applied it to workers.

[@fishmonger7020]

Y’all forgot the main reason for guns being in America and that is to fight tyranny. An armed public controls the government. Your government controls you. I know freedom is scary but y’all should hike up your skirts and stop going to the safety theatre.

[@hiltonian_1260]

As to the last reason, arresting or restraining a criminal, there are complications. There’s a body of legal theory about citizens arrest, and it is convoluted. There is the question of whether the perpetrator will pose a danger (or not) if released, proportional force, the severity of the offense, and so on. Aside from edge cases like a knife wielding psychopath covered in blood, it gets murky. My father was a judge in Vermont (US) and he summarized it by saying that in our state, making a legally valid citizens arrest was essentially impossible. The state laws are specific but the legal principles are universal. It’s easy to cross the line from citizens arrest to unlawful restraint. In the “American weirdness” column I’ll add that in Vermont you can carry a concealed handgun (most places) or a sizable fixed blade knife, but not brass knuckles or a “slung shot” or sap. Go figure.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Yes, lots of grey areas. A good barrister is a must!

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

​@@EnglishMartialArtsAgreed. A well-made cup of coffee will likely be vital to constructing your defense.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

@johnstuartkeller5244 oh you're hilarious...

[@bobadams7654]

@@johnstuartkeller5244 freshly ground.

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

@@bobadams7654 Yes, ground work is important, but let's not dreg this out too long 🥸

[@CowcaticalChris]

Top video. I'm tired of butting heads with Bartitsu types who carry a walking stick solely for self defence. I was at a HEMA event in Lincoln and there was a guy who kept a roll of piano wire on his keys for self defence, and couldn't understand that it's illegal. I just tell all of the students when I do a self defence seminar, don't carry a weapon. YOU ARE THE WEAPON! :P

[@fishmonger7020]

Until I actually have a weapon. The you’re fucked

[@buggersgrips1977]

NI law still allows handguns to be licensed for SD reasons- rare to get but still a part of the UK that allows weapons for such.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Yes, and I know a few folk with legally owned handguns where I am. Not for self defence, but all the same...

[@lewisb85]

@@EnglishMartialArts Normally issued to police officers due to the high rate of constables who were assassinated during the troubles. My dad told me stories about when he was in the army in NI about how they were allowed to grow their hair and beards out so it wasn't so easy to identify them as being military personal.

[@buggersgrips1977]

@@lewisb85Folk I knew issued/offered them were civvies in “negotiation” roles between factions- usually declined so they could maintain neutrality

[@buggersgrips1977]

@@EnglishMartialArtsJust highlighting that generic advice about “UK law” is fundamentally flawed and usually England-centric

[@davidjacobs828]

Hands up if you'd hire the judge in the thumbbail as a child minder

[@cahallo5964]

my country's self defense laws are similar to the uk's when it's on the street, but in your own home or car or property it's literally castle doctrine, you could skin a person and it would be legal lol (at most it would be deemed inmoral, which is a fine), granted, I don't think anybody's has ever done that at least in recent times, but is not illegal. Also, unlike the UK, weapons are not illegal, as long as they are also tools, pocket knifes and butterfly knifes are perfectly legal, but I've never seen butterfly's used, in altercations the most common stuff are utility knifes like swiss knifes, which makes sense because weapons whose only use is as a weapon are illegal (as an example, you can carry a hunting knife, an axe, or a machete, but you can't carry a dagger or a sword, for example.), in the case of firearms, they are not illegal, but they are illegal to carry, some civilians CAN get carry permits, but it's rare, mostly actively persecuted public oficials or w/e. but if you want one inside your own home it's just a background check and a mental evaluation (unless you did military service, which is incredibly common, in that case you can get it with less paperwork, and if you are in active service on leave, you can even carry), but it's pretty expensive, it's like buying a cheap car. I believe we are like the third or 4th country with more LEGAL firearms per capita in America (like 10th total because some countries have pretty messed up crime rates) Frankly, I think self defense laws in the UK are stupid, in my country it's called "personal protection" because you can also act in defense of others, even unknown people, but the way it's worded is very strange, like, let's say you kill someone in self defense, and it was reasonable, you are still charged with murder, but with a reduced sentence that's a larger number than the sentence for the murder, so it cancels out (I legit don't get why it's written like that, in practice that's not even what happens, you still have a clean criminal background if that were to happen)

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I think you need to bear in mind that I can walk down the street holding anything at all that I have a valid reason to hold. It's just that "to keep me safe from attackers" isn't considered a valid reason. I've walked through a busy town centre with half a dozen sharp polearms over my shoulder. No-one cared. Including the police.

[@cahallo5964]

@@EnglishMartialArts over here self defense is a reasonable thing, precedented in the law.

[@benephelps]

I'm American, but if I was English, I would probably always carry a ball point pen. At least it's something. I am pretty sure that everyone outside the US hears a ton about America and guns, but I can report that here in the States, we hear a lot about the UK and knives.

[@BeepBoop2221]

Unless you are in a gang your odds of encountering knife crime in the UK are very low.

[@lewisb85]

Other than the jacked up figures from the right wing media, the actual statistics involving knife crime in the UK are actually low, yes they have gone up but as someone else said unless you are in a gang it's very unlikely to be you.

[@bobadams7654]

Swap the standard ballpoint for a quality metal one.

[@jfilm7466]

What happens when you chase them away and they come back for revenge?

[@briansheeran4185]

Is the baseball bat inside your front door illegal? Previously, it would only be illegal if you were in a public place and you intended to use it. More recent legislation covers weapons inside your home. But only weapons on a specific list. The baseball bat does not appear.

[@Natural_law_lawyer]

issue here is mens rea, you kind had an indiscrete idea/plan to use it if necessary and you've planned and carried some part out by positioning the bat intentionally or the bat has a specific purpose. In this case and non specific intent crime you could be penalised for. If you happened to keep the baseball bat because you played baseball a lot and with a selection of umbrellas. There would be no mens rea

[@KeyserSoze23]

The self defense laws in Canada are exactly the same.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

That doesn't surprise me.

[@dariusrana8487]

Australia too. New Zealand must be very similar.

[@redred7289]

What counts as reasonable is a question for a jury. You might think an act is totally reasonable and I might think it not at all reasonable. And we might find ourselves on the same jury.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Yes, and that is where the judge, and the vast amounts of legal precedent come in. They are there to guide a jury.

[@Sceadusawol]

It's rather alarming that the "wrong" jury can make the difference between being free and being imprisoned.

[@Liam1991]

I'm not too sure if the knife situation would be legal

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Which one?

[@kuntakinte1303]

I'm form eastern europe and the laws here are quite similar. I would always and have always tried to deescelate and run away if possible even tho I can probably fuck them up, beacuse who needs the hassle really...nothing good can come from it only legal issues and injury from fighting on concrete. that all changes if they have a knife or some other weapon, I'm not turning my back in that case and somebody is getting fucked up. And if Im with my wife or child and you attack, you better believe you aint walking away on your own. The laws are extremely flawed and its up to you to determine if its worth going to prison or not.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I genuinely don't think the laws are flawed. If you are with your wife and child and are genuinely in fear for their safety then there's not a lot that wouldn't be classed as reasonable.

[@sharp_medicine9858]

I don't think the "an offensive weapon is anything that you intend to be weapon" thing applies in your own home. So you could have a baseball bat by the door if you wanted one. I've seen quite a few police searches of criminal properties and they often find weapons in places where people intend to use them on anyone breaking in. And they never mention that this is something you could be charged for. I could definitely be wrong though.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

There is a fairly big difference between what the law says is not allowed, and what your average copper is willing to act on. Especially if there is no need. Not worth the paperwork...

[@SurmaSampo]

They can now however take all the knives from that property and keep them.

[@xr33tk]

@@EnglishMartialArts There is also the question of proof. If there is a glass on the counter by a door then its just a glass. If I go around telling people I intend to use it to glass intruders or do so then it is more credible that it was intended to be a weapon. The baseball bat or golf clubs by the door could be because Im on the way to play - if however I use them to defend myself and it turns out I never took them out of the house it becomes clear that they were intended to be a weapon.

[@bobadams7654]

@@SurmaSampo not all your knives. Only certain ones.

[@bobadams7654]

Yes, ur not quite right. Having a bat inside ur door is a bit of a grey area.

[@DaveTex2375]

I don't believe having a few weapons ready in known locations should be illegal if you are wanting to be prepared to protect yourself and your family. To prosecute someone for being prepared in that way would be like prosecuting someone for studying a fighting art and using the techniques to fight off an assailant and accusing you of looking for an excuse to beat someone up.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

We don't get to choose the laws of the country we are born in. But I think there's plenty enough wiggle room in the UK laws to allow someone to feel reasonably safe in their own home.

[@DaveTex2375]

@@EnglishMartialArts I understand you should know how the field is striped and how you must play the game by the current rules. It would be nice if people would petition their government to change the laws or their interpretation so that they don't favor criminals over victims. Look at California's defacto shoplifting decriminalization as an example of "feel good" rules that empower criminals and punish the victims.

[@lewisb85]

@@EnglishMartialArts Also depends how you use it, if you were to grab a cricket bat and nail the intruder once with it, with follow up hits every time they moved towards you in a aggressive manner to the point they get the message legally you might be ok, if you were to take that bat and do a sustained assault with it you might be in legal hot water.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

@lewisb187 yes, reasonable and proportionate.

[@bobadams7654]

Go straight to jail. Do not pass GO. Having weapons placed around the home for self protection is completely different to being trained in self defence.

[@SenseiEmmett]

These nunchucks are for puffing cushions...i swear 😂

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Big fan of Bruce Lee, I love how they look on the wall...

[@Sceadusawol]

UK self defence laws are unreasonable. The very idea that the people who would most benefit from legal access to a force multiplier are the same people unable to possess them is a clear indication, to me, that the laws are not there to make law abiding citizens safer.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Or the law is designed to let someone do whatever they need to to defend themselves with no repercussions, while still penalising anyone who wants to wander around armed.

[@jamestickle3070]

These laws depend on the police or prosecutor acting equally reasonable and not being political.

[@pedroisaac2850]

Problem is everything is now political.

[@whim6287]

Ya'll need more freedom to exercise your natural right to protect your lives and the lives of others if you wish.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

And then we too can be free to have a murder rate 6.5x higher than we currently do. Great idea.

[@BeepBoop2221]

​@@EnglishMartialArtsI too can experience the joy of being lost and then shot through a door. Or the recent one be so paranoid about kidnappings I execute my uber driver.

[@davidemelia6296]

I'm not sure if this is also true in the UK, but in Australia, the constabulary have a lot of discretionary power as to how they deal with things. If they're talking to you after you've had to defend yourself, what you say to them will have a large effect on whether they charge you or not. Is this an ideal state of affairs? No, not really, but it's how it is.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I believe that to be the case here, but don't hold me to it.

[@bigearedmouse17]

Self Defence U.K. Prison, Hospital Morgue...

[@Philo68]

No comment…

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Fair.

[@nothim7321]

That last statement was a bit inflammatory.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

What? FIGHT TEAM?

[@nothim7321]

@@EnglishMartialArts shoot first, ask questions later.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

@@nothim7321 How is it inflammatory?

[@nothim7321]

@@EnglishMartialArts a bit, not massively. I'm just wondering what kind of person you had in mind with that remark. 🤔 I guess it isn't really important and it's my own reaction, which was to laugh at it, because it seemed, to me, to have a target.

[@drno62]

"But without these laws it'd be like the Wild West!" And that's a bad thing because...?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Dentistry?

[@drno62]

@@EnglishMartialArts We've got Doc Holliday for that

[@buggersgrips1977]

There is no UK law- there are 3 distinct legal systems. Scotland is defined by HMA vs Doherty 1954 which adds seeking a reasonable avenue of escape. What is reasonable also differs by tort and case law; eg r@pe can be resisted by lethal force

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Yes, very good points. I was deliberately lazy for the sake of clicks. Sorry...

[@buggersgrips1977]

@@EnglishMartialArts I’ve seen it catch out English forgetting this, especially when it comes to the vagaries of pre-emptive striking so its best highlighted. That’s before the different legal executive system throws them because they’ve followed generic advice that only suits England & Wales

[@buggersgrips1977]

@@EnglishMartialArtsThats before different tort for restraint/arrest exists, especially for civilians with a duty of care (unlawful to not allow use of retraints as count as PPE, can detain for 40 minutes until formal services arrive , different Nuses Holding Powers under MHA 2004 etc) I have weekly struggles with SPS, NMC, CI and SIA over this stuff for work…

[@nothim7321]

Self defense is legal as long as you aren't prepared for it in any way. Weapons are completely legal if they are designed for something else other than defending yourself and are not carried for that purpose. Your country's definitions of reasonable seem off as well. The law seems set up to defend the aggressor and not the defender, seemingly unreasonably. Also, they seem written by people who have never been attacked, unreasonably. Nothing reasonable at all. Never mind that the attacker always has the initial advantage, regardless of training.

[@SurmaSampo]

We have the same legal issue with weapons in Australia. It creates the problem that the granny faced by an armed home invader has to effectively respond in the moment rather than prepare to defend themselves against the attacker. This gives criminals an enormous advantage in using violence against weaker victims who have no right to equalise that disparity. It makes effective self defence a criminal act.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I disagree that it makes self defence a criminal act. I think it makes pre-emptive planning for extreme violence a criminal act, and they aren't quite the same thing...

[@SurmaSampo]

@@EnglishMartialArts Our police and courts would disagree with you. We even make possession of defensive items like pepper spray and body armour crimes that attract jail time. Our reasonable test is a common man test not a reasonable from the perspective of the person in question test. Under the law a granny or disabled person has no extra consideration.

[@Serahpin]

The UK is insane. I don't go anywhere without a handgun. Not because "I'm planning to crime," but in case I need to defend myself. Even animals have the right to self-defense, it is the most natural right to exist.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

It always puzzles me how people from the US seem to think their way of doing things is the only real way...

[@Serahpin]

@@EnglishMartialArts The right to self defense goes back to before the founding. The Declaration of Rights of 1689 recognized the right of Protestants to have Arms for their Defence as allowed by the common law. It's part of our _British_ spirit. You'll notice the parallels with US law. The UK, too, used to be armed. What happened to change that?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

A nut job went into a school and killed 16 kids and 1 teacher. We decided that children were more valuable than guns. Hasn't happened since.

[@Serahpin]

@@EnglishMartialArts And how many of your fellow countryman and children have you sacrificed in the streets because they are unable to defend themselves? The last time I saw the London crime stats I was stunned.

[@lewisb85]

@@Serahpin Not that many tbh, unless you are in a gang you are very unlikely to be a victim of knife crime. Don't cite the right wing media as a source it's not helpful.

[@shoesbutsockless]

your arguments imply that the legality of your actions are decided by the circumstances of the event and your interpretation of the necessity of the amount of force you used at the time, and based on the text of the law I can see why you would think that. The law implies you are giving some degree of discretion when using force to defend yourself but that's not really the case in practice. In practice, the legality of your actions is decided by how the jury would interpret the "reasonableness" and "proportionality" of your use of force, and whether or not they think you should have thought you needed to use that force. because of the subjectivity and lack of clear definition in the legislation, the discretion is the jury's, not yours. In short the legality of your use of force is decided speculatively in hind sight. This is because the standards written in the law are completely subjective and meaningless. ( as there will never be a clear consensus of what the terms used in the context of the use of force in self defense mean.)

[@DaveCollins123]

I wouldn't bet your mortgage on that disclaimer..... just sayin....

[@lesliegoodison1821]

Break intomy house you loose all your rights to the law outside my property. you now come under my JURISDICION where there is No solicitor who will do his Utmost to get you off the pending charge whatever it may be even though HE KNOWS you are guilty, No sir the offender is on my property these people who sit up there deciding if that person is guilty or not have not the slightest or have had no experience of the terror this person or persons create when they commit the crime. I will use what ever force is necessary and with whatever comes to hand to protect my family,people must realise when the time comes god forbid it does not you have not time to sit and read a book on law every thing happens in split seconds, what is REASONABLE FORCE reason is not a word that comes to ones mind in these situations, how can anyone determine what is reasonable force if they have never had that experience that is the difficulty L. G.

[@jayhizzle5765]

The UK sounds like a great place to live lmfao

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Violence is surprisingly rare, and we have bucketloads of history. So yeah it works for most of us.

[@junichiroyamashita]

​@@EnglishMartialArtsthis is in contrast of what i am hearing in the last few years,in the entirety of the British Isles.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

@@junichiroyamashita what are you hearing? And where are you hearing it?

[@junichiroyamashita]

​@@EnglishMartialArtsabout an increasing number of knife related attacks,mostly in London. Also about grooming gangs and home invasions. I admit my frame is mostly England and Scotland,but there seems to be a significant level of dissatisfaction toward police forces. I cannot name where i heard this from as i cannot remember all,but it is an opinion i have heard by many UK based sources,that crime seems to be on the rise. Matt Easton i do watch,you as well, Count Dankula on the Scottish side,i must have also heard something like that by Carl Benjamin as well. I don't remember if Tommy Moore ever talked about.

[@lewisb85]

@@junichiroyamashita All right wing sources I've noticed. UK is still a relatively safe country. My partner is from the US (Detroit) and she said she feels a lot safer here than she did at home in Michigan.

[@papabear328]

UK laws put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage.

[@5RRRtarRiver]

….aaaand the Americans start right about..now

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Oh yes.

[@lewisb85]

@@EnglishMartialArts I knew this video was going to be a dog whistle to them.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

@lewisb187 it's all engagement right?

[@lewisb85]

Although I will say under the law I've found British martial arts instructors to be more legally responsible than some of their American equivalents, as well as BJJ I've done Krav maga and kapap for many years (partly because it's the closest we have to defendu and there's a Israeli martial arts centre where I live), I remember seeing a American krav maga instructor at a seminar teaching a dropping knee on the diaphragm of a downed opponent (think like what bruiser brody used to hit as his finisher) you do that in the real world you could be looking at manslaughter charges, I remember looking across at my instructor wincing like "what are you doing man" when he showed that.

[@lewisb85]

*when the guest instructor showed that*

[@lewisb85]

In regards to weapons just learn the facts of the Tony Martin case and don't do what he did.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Indeed.

[@bakters]

Those laws are absolutely ridiculous and quite likely malevolent too. Two quick examples from my life. I used to carry a pepper spray, mostly (though not exclusively) against stray dogs. I used it many times, by simply pulling it out and talking sternly to them, and thankfully that was enough. That'd be illegal in Britain, since I was carrying a weapon which I planned on using, in case I needed it. I carried a knife for similar reason. I never pulled it out, but I was close once, when I was turtling up on the ground when a bunch of dudes were having a blast while kicking the S out of me. Thankfully, my girlfriend chased them off with a pepper spray. That'd be illegal in Britain, since she carried a weapon she planned on using, in case she needed it. Therefore, I can't see how most people could legally carry a "suspiciously sturdy umbrella"? If thick jewelry is illegal, then tough umbrellas are too. The same for walking canes carried by more or less healthy people. Whatever the practice may be right now, those laws allow for penalizing people for carrying *anything* that can be used in self-defense. Literally anything. A screwdriver you don't need at the moment, an empty bottle, even a pencil. All of that can be used against you. And will be. In due time. What's worse, if being prepared for violence is illegal, then this very same logic can be applied to unarmed martial arts. You admitted yourself, that you chose to train ground fighting because of its self-defense advantages. You also admitted that you studied the use of improvised weaponry, because it'd be useful for self-defense. You self admitted that you *premeditated* the use of those skills against other humans. How does it differ from carrying a blinding device or a knife? The logic behind both behaviors is *exactly the same* . In light of that, I can't see how such laws can be endorsed.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

There's some fairly sizeable leaps of logic there. I assume you're not from the UK?

[@bakters]

@@EnglishMartialArts I grew up in a police state. That later changed to anarchy. Now it's a nice safe place. We are free to carry weapons.

[@bakters]

@@EnglishMartialArts BTW - what "leaps of logic"? Anything that can be used as a weapon is a weapon. If you carry it for that very purpose, you break the law. Whatever the current practice is hardly matters, since it can change at a drop of a hat. The law is already prepared for it. One could say, it's "premeditated".

[@EnglishMartialArts]

No, the current practice matters very much in England. That is what the entire legal system is based on. A new interpretation of a law cannot overcome centuries of legal precedent. That is the basis of our legal system. It may work differently elsewhere, but not here.

[@bakters]

@@EnglishMartialArts If that's the case, it's already well established that legal self-defenders are treated as criminals, who somehow weaseled their way out.

[@insidethevelvetglove3919]

better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

[@BeepBoop2221]

You say that till you're in front of a jury.

[@insidethevelvetglove3919]

at least I'd have the chance to say it, unlike the one been carried by 6.

[@doka-jx1yz]

Not being able to carry a weapon for self protection in this country is what raises us above the criminal in my view.

[@Sceadusawol]

Hard disagree. It's what places us *below* the criminal. Since, by the very nature of being criminal, they are able to give themselves a force advantage by the illegal carriage of weaponry for assault.

[@bakters]

Sometimes I lose my faith in humanity. Anyway, we are free to carry weapons in my neck of woods. Does it mean we are not above the criminals? InB4: In my long life I accumulated one, single, parking ticket. That'd be it.

[@bobadams7654]

Not carrying one for ill intent raises us above the criminal.

[@bakters]

@@bobadams7654 " *ill intent* " Since when "defense of necessity" is considered "ill intent"?

[@bobadams7654]

@bakters sorry, I wasn't clear. By "ill intent", I meant going out with the intention of attacking someone

[@7woundsfist]

UK- harsh language as a weapon, ILLEGAL!!!

[@EnglishMartialArts]

You realise that's bollocks right? If you're trying to make a point, go make it somewhere else.

[@7woundsfist]

@EnglishMartialArts Yes, that's why it's called satire. While having self-defense laws makes sense, many often fall into the realm of the absurd. The balancing of civility and chaos is sticky. I'm glad I'm not a lawmaker.

[@BeepBoop2221]

I have several very sketch stories of a very silly "green martial art" that sells "hidden weapon" all of which are illegal. One of which was one of those bits of heavy metal on a necklace. Despite me explaining to them several times. 1. You are selling them as weapons 2 . You make instructional videos of you using them as weapons 3. If any of your students use them as such for the above reasons you are capital F fucked in a court of law I was ignored and told "not to worry about it" With one instructor telling me to throw one of those silly talon rings in a Bush should I have to use it. Yes, telling me to hide evidence In what would be a police investigation.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I was once asked to be an expert witness in the case of a person using a Kubotan keyring as a weapon. I pointed out that they are sold as weapons, and therefore it would be very hard to believe the person with it on their keys actually considered it not to be a weapon.

[@BeepBoop2221]

That echos multiple very silly conversations I had back in the day. Me - none of this will hold up in court, solicitors know how to google your name.

[@BeepBoop2221]

It's stuff like this that makes me wary of pretty much all of the "RBSD" crowd. I feel it would be very difficult to explain to a jury why you did any of this. (The bonus being them all plagiarising from each other) kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIe8Zoucdtx4acksi=7-bh1dDLgJwXZyXf

[@dhalav]

those wigs are hurting my eyes znd good taste deeply, they should be illegal

[@EnglishMartialArts]

No, we should all go back to wearing them!

[@dhalav]

@@EnglishMartialArts Wig Team!

[@kanewhitehead1522]

Better off being a victim than resorting to self defense under British law as you'll likely end up in prison for defending yourself.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

You realise that isn't true?

[@kanewhitehead1522]

​@@EnglishMartialArtsI hope not

[@BeepBoop2221]

​@kanewhitehead1522 out of curiosity do you live in the uk

[@kanewhitehead1522]

​@@BeepBoop2221Yes. I understand that you are permitted to use "reasonable force" in certain circumstances, though you often end up at the mercy of the CPS to determine whether that force was reasonable.

[@BeepBoop2221]

@kanewhitehead1522 that's not what CPS does.

[@ahhthatsjustgrand6502]

there are only 3 things you need to know 1. If you die, you cant go to jail 2. You dont have a knife 3. Nobody cares

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

I have to say I'm extremely happy to not live in the UK or one of the communist states in the US such as California. I daily carry a gun and a knife plus another gun in my car.

[@BeepBoop2221]

You have zero communist states in your country...

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

@@BeepBoop2221 close enough for me to call it that. If you don’t live here, you don’t have an opinion. If you do live here and you’re on the political left, fuck your opinion.

[@BeepBoop2221]

​@dragonballjiujitsu communism is not when you have failed neoliberal policy. That's like calling Tony Blair a communist xD

[@lewisb85]

I'm also extremely happy with the lack of mass shootings we have in the UK.

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

@@lewisb85 I’ll take the trade off

[@user-BobbyM9864]

Trust me it won't need in good faith !! I'll say that to the police officer ofcourse just to keep up the pretence !!!

[@EnglishMartialArts]

And yet here you are saying it in public on the Internet where the whole world can see it...

[@user-BobbyM9864]

The law is an ass !! And it needs to change so that we can protect ourselves this country is a total joke!!