Ultima Underworld 2: Labyrinth of Worlds - Review / Retrospective

[@finntrovert]

The entire Ultima review series playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PL6ySdS-taQCLCyXvRRoHCYgBDo2h8bUle

[@Groffili]

Ultima Underworld wasn't planed as an Ultima game. It was an independent project that Origin adapted to losely fit into Britannia for better publicity. That's the reason why UW1 feels so "out of place" in the Ultima universe. But they also saw the promise that such an engine offered for adventures in the world of Ultima, and created UW2 around that view.

[@sindobrandnew]

3:43 The box back cover proudly presents those improvement as "30% larger than before".😆

[@camwyn256]

If you play this game, do yourself a big favor whenever you come across a staircase. Label on your map U or D for up or down on the staircase, as it's not clear which way they go on the map. Also, whenever you take a staircase, turn around and look at the staircase to get it on your map, then mark the direction on your map

[@dane7584]

I'm not a fan of Let's play videos, but this retrospective and change in format is fantastic. Great work! Can't wait for the rest of the series.

[@finntrovert]

Thank you!

[@PaulWarren-dt1ms]

Relevant RUNE por ylem vas 😮...

[@foxfox4851]

Another amazing video about games I will likely never play but are still fascinated by. Thank you.

[@hannibalsolo4409]

I never played the first Underworld, but UW2 is one of my favourite games of all time. Great memories. Always nice to relive them.

[@camwyn256]

I see other players have a difficult time with jumping. Shift+J is a standardized forward jump, that most of the jumping puzzles are made around

[@dmitch1983]

Sweet. I just finished the series last night. This is perfect timing. Can't wait for the next one! Loving this series!

[@billlyons7024]

Great review! It can't be understated how jaw-dropping these games were back when they first came out.

[@GamingKeenBeaner]

This game was a major part of developing my passion for games. I almost went to work for Looking Glass Studios. I am so glad I did not move across the country since they went out of business so soon after, but I still feel sad I never got to be part of that amazing place. Thanks for the retrospective.

[@finntrovert]

Thanks for watching! That's really cool you had the opportunity, even if you chose against it. All I can put on my resume in the games front is being a part of an average indie game. XD

[@GamingKeenBeaner]

@@finntrovert You can also add to your resume that you make good KZbin gaming retrospectives.

[@tharfagreinir]

I'd been waiting for this one since I came across your channel the other day. This game is a big favorite one of mine and I'm happy to see that your review does it good justice. It's a truly unique game, both in its good and its bad aspects, but I think the good ones do outweigh the bad. I think it's difficult to overstate how groundbreaking it was at the time it came out.

[@finntrovert]

Agreed. The game has its flaws, such as the platforming, which was the one bit I didn't find in any way fun, due to the way acceleration worked. But overall, it's an amazing game, and the negatives are little compared to all the good. You can also tell how there are so many ideas at play that ended up inspiring another game which I'd like to talk about at some point.

[@dnatrueshot4598]

Loving the content Finn! Keep it up! Cheers from Canada.

[@finntrovert]

Thank you for watching!

[@quarkbent9165]

Heh, I giggled at the comment on the Blackrock dome disappearing and causing no calamity; at this point in the lore of the Avatar, you'd almost expect each world they visited to implode unintentionally as a result of their actions and that their heroism had an inobvious and dark undertone ... And then there's Ultima VIII (the conceptual style font from which Ultima Online mostly stemmed). I have such mixed feelings about Ultima after the Serpent Isle, but even VIII felt compatible with what came before, as a series that was ever-changing. I think many people had become accustomed to what it had changed into by this point with Ultima 7 and these two Underworlds, and had not quite wanted that it would keep changing. We haven't really seen RPGs embrace anything near the interactivity Ultima 7 afforded players until ... maybe Divinity Origin Sin One, Two, and Thr-, I mean, Baldur's Gate 3. I wonder if things had been done in a way that delivered Ultima 8/9 in more functional and complete forms that they'd have been received far better. I never realised before watching this it but this seems to beat The Serpent Isle to making the portraits bigger.

[@finntrovert]

I think that if 8 and 9 had been in the oven for longer, they would have had a much more positive place in the memories of people. It's a bit of a spoiler of sorts for future videos, but I did talk about this when I originally streamed them too, so it's not THAT big of a secret, but... I don't have that negative feelings for those two games. Yes, I see why people don't like them, and I completely understand that. There are many things wrong with both of the games, whether from a gameplay/lore/is the game complete perspective, but there's one thing both have in them that still made me appreciate them for what they were. There's a clear sense of what they were going for, and the idea of what they would have been is clearly visible in those games, and perhaps I appreciate that "I see what they wanted to do" more than I dislike the "what became of it".

[@quarkbent9165]

@@finntrovert Yeah, I'm in a similar boat and I totally agree :)

[@crtglowgames]

I remember thinking exactly the same at the time and liked how LB was sitting right under that stained glass window. Presumably this is how you kill him in UW2 ;) The king on the balcony later in the cutscene must be the dude from Killorn Keep (again assuming you didn't brain the 🧠 creatures)

[@shanara99]

Giant black domes.... Not to be confused with Giant Evil Pillars.

[@finntrovert]

Seems like The Guardian is compensating for something.

[@pretzelboi64]

Man, I wish they did a 3rd game in the same style with a modern control scheme. I really dig the crunchy 3D software renderer even if it came out way before I was born. There's a charm to it that Arx Fatalis and Ascendant just straight up failed to capture. Fatalis is awkward Y2K 3D at its worst and Ascendant is a soulless Unity asset flip

[@chuck9483]

They made a spiritual successor

[@themeangene]

Yeah I agree. Unfortunately not many devs go after the early 90s 3D look. Even the retro Ps1 styled games aren't typically imitating actual 5th gen looks. There is no anti alias. There's barely any UV perspective correction. And the lighting is being faked with the z depth multiplying the texture color by shades of gray and black to hide pop in. On a modern console you could replicate this aesthetic and add to the level geometry to create some interesting levels.

[@johno1544]

Arx Fatalis maintained more of the vibe of the first two than Ascendant did in my opinion

[@pretzelboi64]

@@johno1544 Oh yeah, absolutely. The gameplay was undeniably the closest thing to OG Underworld

[@pretzelboi64]

@@themeangene Right, "retro games" are nothing like actual old school 3D. The art of making obscure lighting systems and being creative around limitations has been mostly lost to time. People just grab pre-made shaders and slap them on Unity's default lighting system. E for minimal effort. Thankfully, some people are still doing it because I've been playing a game called Ring Racers recently and it looks straight out of the 90s. It looks good too!

[@crtglowgames]

Great retrospective, you covered pretty much everything. This is my favourite Ultima game - at least if we're counting on how many times I've played an individual game to completion. Vying with U6 although obviously UW2 is a much lonelier endeavour. I played UW1 much later so it never stood a chance. Btw the entrance to the sewers is I believe a soft copy protection exercise... In any case I utterly consumed the manuals prior to playing - very well written from the golden age of game manuals. Oh and I always kick that first headless' 2.5D rendered ass. Just needs a bit of patience and finely honed Riverdance skills. And finally: I never knew about that easy move function!!

[@camwyn256]

You can use right click to look at things. Right click and drag to use/pick up things, without having to switch icons. Keyboard movement is best to use, instead of trying to move with the mouse. Especially for jumping puzzles. J key is jump. Shift+J is a standing forward jump, which most jumps in the game are designed around

[@Kris451]

Just recently binge watch the retrospective the other week, then got disappointed it's not finished... Yet. Keep up the good work. I hope Ultima 8 doesn't make you pull your hair out.

[@finntrovert]

Thank you for watching! And eventually it will be finished! And no worries, I played that one on stream a few years back too and survived. I also have (some) positive things to say about it, but I'll leave those for the video. :P

[@haroldshea3282]

8:52 um, akshuly, you don't even have to follow tutorial walkthrough from the manual, secret door is clearly visible on the map. Anyway, keep up the good work, man, more reviews/essays/retrospectives of old stuff are always welcome.

[@nathan_james]

I would guess the hidden door is a cheeky attempt at anti-piracy measures, there's plenty of similar examples from the same era. Great vid!

[@finntrovert]

@@nathan_james Thanks! It's very possible. There were a lot of curious ways people were trying to curb piracy.

[@Mauday]

Hyvää settiä, bruh! Näitä tuli ysäreillä jauhettua 486:sella.

[@finntrovert]

Kiitos! Itsellä jäi sarja aikoinaan väliin, mutta onneksi jokunen vuosi takaperin päätin vihdoin hypätä mukaan. Nyt kun ymmärrän miksi kuulin näistä 90-luvulla niin paljon.

[@BumbleTheBard]

The best items in UW2 are the axe of fire doom and the leather vest of flameproof. Wearing the vest you are immune to all fire damage and you can use the axe without taking damage. The axe procs AoE fire explosions and is extremely lethal.

[@deneb9228]

Awesome retrospective! This is one of my childhood’s favourite games. Didn’t get no further than the ice world, but I was only 15 back then 😊

[@finntrovert]

Thanks! That's one of the reasons why I started doing this. As a kid, I missed a lot of games, or didn't understand them well enough and never finished them. This gives me a great excuse to finally deep dive into them and many others! XD

[@marcdc6809]

I loved the fact that it gave you lots of options, like triggering a switch with a pole, or smashing a door... the magic is also well designed, with flying, levitation, telekineses, all fun to use... something I kind of miss, not enough projectiles... would be nice if yolo could sell you full quivers... the game is obviously designed with the alternative playstyle of a no-magic rogue in mind, but that would only feel right if you had some more options to hide in the shadows, and be able to backstab or shoot enemies from a higher location... it would be nice if you could ask nistul to identify wands you find, and if more npc's could charge these wands, so you basically have an alternative if you want to play a pure fighter... now I always end up playing it as a druid or a paladin... combo of magic and swordfighting, learn the sword from the guy in the flying castle.

[@finntrovert]

Yeah, as much as there is good in UUW, it is true the games are most optimally played with certain builds. Ranged combat is not particularly satisfying, and instead of improving the very rudimentary stealth system is UUW, UUW2 built the maps in a way where it's even less useful. Still, they are fun, even if flawed.

[@Chaosherold]

I'm sure at least Chuckles was mortally wounded by a piece of the shattered dome. ;-)

[@finntrovert]

One can only hope.

[@Eli-kt3td]

I've been really enjoying these Ultima retrospectives and just now realized there's hundreds more hours of ultima from your earlier playthroughs to catch up on :) Also Deus Ex

[@finntrovert]

Thank you for watching them! As for the stream VODs, those are the ones when I first played these games, and started to fall in love with the series, that ultimately led me to make these actual scripted videos. Streaming them live was quite an experience, one that I'm glad I did.

[@Novastar.SaberCombat]

It was cool exchanging a few emails with Richard Garriott in 2019. 🙂 Dope cat.

[@finntrovert]

That he is! Even to this day he engages with fans online, and that's extremely cool. I do have to admit that one reason why so many people have found this little channel is because of him, as the first bump came because he found me and retweeted my channel, thanking me for making videos about Ultima. It was a moment of extreme nerdgasm for me.

[@stigkenobi7525]

So...the destruction of the Black Gate, which is made of blackrock, thwarts the guardian....how is it that he can just willy nilly make a blackrock dome around the castle? You'd think if he can do that, he should be able to make piles of black gates as well.

[@finntrovert]

The Guardian's powers are a bit inconsistent. I think they tried to explain it as The Guardian needing a special connection to the world and the gate via his followers, because he's a special kind of entity, whereas in Underworld 2 he does indeed create more gates, through which you travel, and also through which he sends his armies to Britannia during the game, but for some reason he cannot pass through them.

[@anthonykoeslag]

8:55 - I was just thinking that the secret passage in your room was in the manual?

[@OgdenM]

I used to love this game as a kid. I really wish someone would remaster the graphics.

[@finntrovert]

Maybe one day. We did get a System Shock remake, so who knows? Perhaps Ultima will be resurrected in the future as well.

[@gewitterhund3164]

Will you do Savage Empire and Martian Dreams too? Just curious.

[@finntrovert]

At some point, most likely. But I do have other games in mind as well.

[@Mahaloth]

I'm glad you made this and have enjoyed the series. Do you know how long the next video will take to make? I think I've seen the entire retrospective up to this point.

[@finntrovert]

I don't want to make any definitive promises, since that's liable to lead to disappointment. But I am already working on it, in other words, playing the game and writing a lot of notes. Maybe one day I can put even more time to this and set an actual upload schedule, but right now I have to sometimes focus on other things to, you know, survive. Sorry I can't be more specific.

[@PaulWarren-dt1ms]

The spell casts a defense of ...

[@chaoticsystem2211]

did you find the 2 floating things which hold the castle in the air?

[@finntrovert]

It's been a while now, but I think so. Weren't they in the room behind the demon guard where you need to sever the link to the world?

[@chaoticsystem2211]

it's been like 30 years now. i have no clue where they were. i only remember the effect it had when you killed them @@finntrovert

[@FKYT]

Great video.

[@finntrovert]

Thank you!

[@ProBreakers]

They should have had you play as someone besides the avatar. They do nothing to explain how you get so weak suddenly that you can be killed so easily. It would have been more plausible if you were some other knight of the king or something.

[@finntrovert]

I just put it off to being a video game. There are very few games, including most of the numbered Ultima games, that explain why you start with basically no equipment and have to fear rats. At least Serpent Isle tried, so it's something!

[@ProBreakers]

@@finntrovert that’s true…I’ll just chalk it up in my head cannon to that the dome was designed to specifically weaken the avatar or something :)

[@fatenabu1]

Will you be doing Martian Dreams?

[@finntrovert]

Eventually. After a year of going through Ultima games, I think after the next one I'll want to take a little break and dive into something else for a while.

[@fatenabu1]

Thank you for the reply. I really loved the Ultima series in my younger days. I played them growing up. I have them on GOG and my kids can't understand why I like them. Anyways I watched all of your videos in your Ultima playlist with my 12 year old tonight and she actually understood why I liked them after watching your series with them. You could articulate why they are great better than I could. @@finntrovert

[@somemong989]

You and Spoony should duke it out

[@finntrovert]

@@somemong989 It would be interesting to have a chat with him. Hope he's doing good these days.

[@somemong989]

@@finntrovert haven't checked in ages but last I looked into it, he's not doing well. However his ultima retrospective series is still excellent

[@sanitarium017]

Submit to monke

[@Peremptor]

Heck this game is some ways is like an proto elderscrolls game just without an 'overworld'... very cool.

[@finntrovert]

Pretty much!

[@pomf666]

*Heavy sigh*... Yet another person criticising the Ultima Underworld games that clearly didn't play them when they were new. I did play this when it was brand new and never had a problem with figuring out how to get down to the sewers. It was not "new player unfriendly". Which, BTW, I didn't have the manual when I played it or internet or youtube guides like you do today. So, even if you wanna try to use the "excuse" of being a "retrospective". Your point is still invalid because a new player today can easily lookup a guide and learn how to get into the sewers with no problem.

[@finntrovert]

The beauty of the internet is that you can make your own video where you can share your own thoughts and experiences, which may be very different of those from other people! Then you can also have people who have an inaccurate view of who you are create a fantasy version of you and say you're wrong because they had a different experience! It's magical.