Ultima VII Part Two: Serpent Isle - Retrospective / Review

[@finntrovert]

The entire Ultima review series playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PL6ySdS-taQCLCyXvRRoHCYgBDo2h8bUle

[@stevemanart]

Something happening in RPG magazines and fanzines of era, which Richard Garriott was an active participant of, was the debate on whether an RPG was better as an open world where the players can just wander the world to find the story as their own pace or a guided tour of a world to explore a narrative, and I feel like Ultimas VI, VII-1, and VII-2 are Richard exploring that idea for himself to come to his own personal conclusion.

[@SnakebitSTI]

I've been learning about the Ultima series recently, and I find it very interesting how much of the series seems driven by Garriot exploring new ideas and reexamining old ones.

[@Retrofun69]

The best retrospective series on Ultima since Spoony. Bravo dude.

[@finntrovert]

Thank you!

[@henkman00]

Betrayaaaaaaaaal!!!

[@4everhdt]

Oh great! I'm so glad I found your channel. Both Ultima 7 games are amazing, especially for their time. Your video is very deep and insightful. Thank you!

[@finntrovert]

Thank YOU for watching!

[@Shadethewolfy]

Actually, only Monitor follows one of the Principles. The other two rejected them because they went against what they personally believed (the Mages of Moon believed that magic required the existence of illusion to function, so they rejected the concept of undeniable Truth; the people of Fawn held beauty above all else, so felt no need for unconditional Love). I think Marsten himself tells you this if you ask him about it. And even then, Monitor follows Courage in a strange way; they turned the principle into a rigid, duty-bound code to be followed rather than the true, virtuous expression that Lord British envisioned.

[@nolake]

A fantastic memory and a great review. I kept in mind so many good moments from this game. I loved that giant jaw with the teeth you had to retrieve to travel. It was a great feature at the time. But indeed, there are too many things to gather to finish the game. That moment with Dupré was one of the most amazing moment in video game back then. Still is actually.

[@foxfox4851]

I love these videos. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into making them. I know it can be hard to be a creative with a full-time job but your effort is valued.

[@finntrovert]

Thank you!

[@Ritchian]

Serpent's Isle really holds up as one of my favorite games. While I adore Black Gate for its freedom and open world, I love Serpent's Isle for using that framework to tell an incredible, well-told, shockingly dark story that still holds up today. While it's toyed with in the Ultima 6 spinoffs and Underworld, this is really the first time since the earliest Ultima games where the Avatar is adventuring in a world that has no idea who they are. And I think it does a better job with that premise than the sequel does, though perhaps that comes down to better writing and far more memorable characters. At the risk of jumping ahead into spoiler land, the destruction the Banes release on the world hits me far harder in Serpent's Isle than, well, the state you leave Pagan in by the time you're done with it. And I love the Ophidian culture. Despite only interacting with it through its decaying ruins (and the handful of Silver Seed characters), the player can uncover an incredible story of the rise and eventual fall of a fascinating culture. It turns the ruins that dot the continent into something special as you pick through them instead of just a bunch of boring dungeons. Ultima VII really was the high water mark of the whole Ultima franchise. While Ultima VIII has it's moments, IX, uh, tries, I guess, and I played far more of Ultima Online that was probably healthy back in the day, the series never comes close to reaching the heights of Black Gate and Serpent's Isle. Great job on the review.

[@finntrovert]

Agreed. I'll get to VIII and IX in more detail later, but specifically with VIII, it's a shame the game is so clearly unfinished, because you can see the framework for a really cool world and story that was meant to touch on the topic of a "lesser evil", and how a compromise of your strongly held values may sometimes be necessary to prevent an even worse outcome. But it doesn't manage to do that that well due to, well, not being finished.

[@Ritchian]

​@@finntrovert Yeah. Ultima VIII screams wasted potential. I have always wondered how much more memorable VIII would have been had the player been given more agency. If it let the player truly choose between upholding the virtues and making compromises for what can be seen as a greater good. If it made the player decide whether saving Britannia and Earth was worth damning the strange, new world they'd found themselves in. A world thoroughly corrupted by the Guardian already, but that still had some kind souls living in it. Instead, the only choice the player is given is to follow the predetermined road to ruin. Or turn off the game, I suppose.

[@finntrovert]

@@Ritchian Indeed! Even if you could have chosen to uphold the Virtues the game could have still led you to the same end, just having different consequences for each step. There's so much in VIII that could have been really great, which makes it just that much more sad that it couldn't reach that full potential.

[@danywilde1907]

I really enjoy your Ultima videos, keep em coming!

[@finntrovert]

Thank you!

[@davidsantiagoalonso]

you created a great video... every few months i search for ultima based lore videos / retrospectives... and this video or yours is definitely one of the best. Just one question: the part where you mention that the serpent of balance was ripped out of the void in exodus U3; is that actually lore or something that has now been repeated thanks to spoony's videos a decade ago? i always thought he pulled that out of nowhere (even though it feels like good head cannon).

[@finntrovert]

It indeed is actual lore! There are several clues in the game that point towards it, and one character outright says it was Exodus who abducted the serpent.

[@davidsantiagoalonso]

@@finntrovert that's actually good to know, thankyou. Cant wait for the U8 video. ha! i remember beating that before the patch...

[@Zarbula]

Nice man! keep up the good videos

[@finntrovert]

Thank you!

[@misterkefir]

+1 to that

[@the_snackbar]

I will never be able to explain how much I love this game!

[@finntrovert]

I feel that, it took me 40-ish minutes, and I still don't know if I did it proper justice. XD

[@jaumealcazo6386]

Thank you for this review. I have fond memories of this game from my teenage years.

[@blockmasterscott]

I never could figure out the purpose of that person on the beach waaaaaay up in the upper corner of the map. Maybe a storyline that was never developed?

[@Frank_42]

This was definitely a happy go lucky story, and funny too.

[@finntrovert]

Very much so. It's nice the series went into full positivity mode for this game. Nothing dark and sad here. Nope!

[@TerminallyNerdy]

And I finally have reached my fav Ultima game, but NOT my first one. THE SERPENT ISLE.

[@Francois424]

I'm torn on this game personally. I absolutely adore it up to when the bane gets released. After that you cannot train anymore and the lack of NPCs in town is a huge let down to me. The snow part is a bit too dreary as well for my liking and I found the serpent temple part annoying (tho fighting the banes in the castle was the highlight of that last third of the game). I will admit if you play with a guide or a walkthru, even if you only decide to use it after the bane release, will make the game 10x better as you wont lose so much time figuring out that last third (and man it took me far too long, was annoying and quite boring at times). It's a solid 7/10 for me, a point behind Ultima 7 proper. Thanks for the review, very enjoyable and well edited !

[@finntrovert]

Thank you! It's understandable. Even if I enjoyed the latter portion quite a bit, I do see why someone wouldn't. The game changes a lot, and removes a bunch of options, leaving the only training options into the expansion, and removing most of the dialogue, replacing it with books, etc.

[@Daehawk]

My favorite Ultima. My wife bought it for me on sale around 95 in the mall's Electronics Boutique. I think it was like $25. The very first time i played it theres a door in that first town thats locked yet behind it in the room you can see many chests. So of course I used a halberd to break open the door. But all the chests were empty. it wasn't till much further into the game I became stuff when needed items and inv were not found by the game. Seems that room must have been some kind of repository for item..even not seen by me...for the game to use. And hence I had to start over..which took me another year to get to.

[@knightofvirtue613]

This is one of the best early access videos for Dragons Dogma 2. Looks like an awesome game

[@electryc03]

Love your narration. Kept me watching.

[@finntrovert]

Thanks! Glad you liked it.

[@Chaosherold]

The sacrifice of Dupre is a bittersweet part of this game - it would be a shame if another game of the Ultima series would disrespect this event. Luckily this never happened. I also would like to state once more that it's a pleasure to listen to your reviews! :-)

[@finntrovert]

Thank you! And indeed! It is very good that they managed to avoid that pitfall of undoing the emotional impact of Dupre's sacrifice. Though, the weird Burt Reynolds cameo in Ultima IX was unexpected.

[@Teheleri]

What IS a paladin though? ;)

[@shanara99]

Mysterious portals that lead to the main menu... Hate those. Seriously, this feels like it should have been ACTUAL Ultima 8..... Oh well. xD

[@literatesasquatch]

Common feeling but Richard Garriot had mad a public promise early on to not have a new versiion without a new engine. Same engine meant he could not ethically call it 8.

[@davidpa9266]

​@@literatesasquatch Developers...keeping promises? What utopian times were those?

[@ytanonymity3585]

I feel like this game really did represent the crossroads for Origin. The first 75% of it was Origin's finest work but that incomplete and rushed in last 25% of thw game was the first real signed of EA's insidious influence. A lot of complexity idea that originally been planned had never made it to this game. I'm sure there is a lot of cut content as well

[@incognitophi]

As others have noted Serpent Isle is both a masterpiece and a missed opportunity that shows the negative influence of EA that accelerates in U8 and U9. As well as the plot is handled after the release of the Banes in the final version it's obvious in retrospect and comparison to the rest of the game that the original plans for the Banes would have made the game longer and perhaps better. We get the theme you mention of rescuing victory from failure but we miss the themes of corrupted virtue, healing, redemption, atonement, and forgiveness that we could have had with seeing and overthrowing the Banes' despotic rule of the cities. The exploration of the Ophidian culture after the Banes are released is great but the game feels rushed as you approach the end. There's no dialogue with surviving townsfolk directed at Iolo, Shamino, and Dupre when you revisit after restoring them. There's nowhere to spend all that gold you find in the Temple of Tolerance. Not to mention the other cut content such as Claw Island and curing Cantra. Don't get me wrong, it's still one of my favorite games but the cut content from this game and the way U8 and U9 turned out broke my heart. Especially because of how good the series was up to then.

[@mikeunderhi]

Yup, there's a good reason EA was the villian in the last game. For all the disappointments of the latter games at least we got Ultime V Lazarus. For a fan project it was masterfully done

[@gassygasgassy]

hi my qzestion the black gate ultima vii weapont any solution to tansfering weaponts? serpent isle doesn,t have in the death scyter and the foe of destruction.

[@matthewjimenez610]

Love this!

[@finntrovert]

Thank you!

[@perfectblue8443]

To me, after all these years, Ultima VII part I and II remain the best games of all times.

[@finntrovert]

@@perfectblue8443 They are masterpieces of storytelling.

[@JuanPerez-cs1gx]

😂 "Move on!" "Step aside!" "Stand away!" .....

[@bratticuss]

Should try Savage Empire, it's a fantastic game the expands what the Ultima 6 engine could do. Plus you can mess with dinosaurs

[@Quamikaze]

Serpent Isle is absolutely my favorite of all the Ultimas

[@finntrovert]

A very good choice!

[@ytanonymity3585]

Mine is both part of U7 and the Ultima Underworld duology

[@quarkbent9165]

Yes, let's not give bureaucracy TOO much credit :) It wouldn't go anywhere if we did, anyway.

[@ProBreakers]

From what I have seen, this game is the Pinnacle of the series in terms of storytelling and game design. The next two games being a downward trend. Almost wish they had just done a second expansion to this game and concluded the guardian story arc there and ended the series on a high note.

[@finntrovert]

That's generally the opinion, yes. From a storytelling and world building perspectives this one is definitely up there, though from a gameplay perspective I prefer VI more than the VII engine games. In a way VII engine games are more adventure games than RPGs, as the focus is so strongly on the story and puzzles, while the combat and as a result character building are not that engaging.

[@ProBreakers]

@@finntrovert I still had the most fun playing part 3 :)

[@juhaylimaki2543]

My best years.

[@rifz42]

who owns these now? any chance of getting them remastered with new graphics?

[@finntrovert]

Very little chance. The rights are split, with EA having ownership of the franchise, and Lord British the characters, so working through the rights to have something happen is very unlikely.

[@bratticuss]

I have never been able to finish this game. It always started to bug out near the end of the game.

[@jaumealcazo6386]

Amazing game.

[@bratticuss]

Played this game several times and still by the end of the game, the bugs would prevent me from finishing it

[@finntrovert]

@@bratticuss That's a shame. I must have been fortunate to avoid game breaking bugs. Perhaps the Exult recreation would work better? Haven't played a full game in that so I can't say for sure.